this time accounting for volume and the oil pickup tube. 40 degrees means the pickup tube is dry. BUT with a running motor it's going to be less.
Пікірлер: 154
@Sympul13 жыл бұрын
You're doing god's work, thank you Sir.
@franklinshooter30503 жыл бұрын
Stock SVs are not stunt bikes and this video illustrates that quite clearly. Thanks for the upload! 👍🍻
@SuperLiconic3 ай бұрын
Thanks again, after 3 years it's still valuable :)
@TalosIO Жыл бұрын
Strat here from the forum. Just want to thank you for your great videos. Please keep doing them :)
@eflanagan1921 Жыл бұрын
Fun to watch even though you taught this 2 years ago ! Old Fan boy, me !
@eflanagan19213 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this . I wonder if extending the pick up tube down and to the rear would alleviate the problem .
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
Youd have to punch through the back wall and skip the strainer. Also... thats a ton of work for marginal returns
@knuddelwinzig4983 жыл бұрын
This is what some pro Stunt rider do. But a v2 is not the best engine for this, except it's a dry sump setup. If the oil pressure drops, the jaw usually do also very soon.
@gaborszopka96193 жыл бұрын
If the engine is running, the oil level sinks, because the lubrification starts, which requires oil. The oil has to be present in the upper regions, to the camshaft in the upper cylinder head. If you start the engine, the oil is not visible in the level inspection window. If you rev the engine, the oil level sinks even more significantly. Plus, the whole bike is accelerating which forces the oil backwards. So the oil level you are assuming to have in the engine while you are doing a wheelie, is not correct. Just think about it...
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
yep. and a whole lot of other factors. like can the tube going down to the sump suck up air or not, is the oil vapor helpful, etc. but keeping it simple, "wheelies bad for svs"
@gaborszopka96193 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles yes, that is what I meant. The situation is even worse than it looks. (y)
@joshbullers143 жыл бұрын
I've had my 02 since almost new, i always start it and check the oil level in the sight glass with it running and if I know I'm gonna be out messing around and pulling wheelies I over fill it 1/2qt. Bike has 17k miles on it and so far not a single issue. Just a tidbit I thought might help
@sflynn49253 жыл бұрын
One up this I have an 06 with 96K miles of wheelies and track days, general hooliganisim, no issues. Im sure if I learned how to balance point my motor would be blown by now, but I always overfill the oil a tad and have never had any issues.
@Cusconillow3 жыл бұрын
@@sflynn4925 are you saying you overfill it past the full line? Or do you mean just above the halfway point between empty and full?
@butlersracing76923 жыл бұрын
Yeah same my 2010 has around 25 000km of 2nd gear - 3rd gear long clutch ups and still going strong 👍
@Svakhen3 жыл бұрын
Love it, but you know damn well someone in one of the groups is going to come up with some random idea to make you do it again.
@psychouki2 жыл бұрын
Because they aren't correct. Dont take bad information and apply it to life.
@KnightZ335 ай бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. You have saved me $
@KnightZ335 ай бұрын
Especially on Reddit 😊😊
@FairladyS1303 ай бұрын
That oil pickup could in theory be extended further down into the oil to reduce starvation at wheelie angles. That would require a redesign which could have been done originally.
@rafaelfrometaroman8645Күн бұрын
I just submitted a comment asking if that could be done by sticking a heat resistant material tube into the oil intake 😂
@fuglbirdАй бұрын
Thank you for doing this. It was very useful to me. I guess I don't want to ride my SV650 in San Fransisco, Harlech in Wales or Dunedin in New Zealand. What about going upwards? Does the pump inlet go dry at 40° as well or is the angle different?
@Mad8vCyclesАй бұрын
if you can drive up a 40* hill id be pretty impressed. youd have a hard time walking up one unless you're a roofer or something.
@UncleWally33 жыл бұрын
After having collectively put over 200 000 trouble free kilometers on three of these engines what I’m hearing is that, barring extreme situations, there’s not a problem. Am I close?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
dont wheelie them and they dont get oil starved yea
@UncleWally33 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles: And, wouldn’t a few short wheelies probably be more of a challenge to the suspension than the engine? It’s an interesting video though, always good to know the internal workings . . . . of anything.
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
@@UncleWally3 key word short. and yes.
@DrKampfpudding3 жыл бұрын
Have you been riding to the Moon and Back on your 3 SV's lol ??
@Cusconillow3 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles “Short” meaning basically riding out 1st and 2nd gear?
@user-hx8jo8wz7i2 жыл бұрын
Thank you a lot, interesting and needed
@johnwright69953 жыл бұрын
It's been a problem since 99 first year production I had one the guy I bought it of said dont wheelie it you'll seize it never did cant wheelie anyway but the thought of a stretched chain worn cush drive and bust fork seals put me of have to say the most reliable bike I've had take care
@butlersracing76923 жыл бұрын
I've been wheeling my 2010 model for close to 25000km now and still going strong. Long 2nd - 3rd gear clutchup wheelies no problem. I know plenty guys doing the same....
@arkashaes66183 жыл бұрын
You know about long term damage and sudden failure, due to long term damage? You can’t know if you damaged your engine until you either look at it or it fails. And than people sale their bikes stating it’s showroom condition.
@butlersracing76923 жыл бұрын
@@arkashaes6618 my friend in my decades of riding people have been wheeling these things since the TL first came out. It's how most learnt to wheelie and not once have I actually seen or heard of an SV engine fail. Infact you'll be lucky to find more than 5 detailed stories of destruction due to this... Many people have opinions regarding this but the fact of the matter is you looking at like a tiny percentage failure rate globally. Lastly this is my 5th variant of this engine since the late 90s in both 1000 and 650 configuration and all have handled the same abuse and more and never had a come back after sale or sat with lemon after buying higher mileage units from friends who have done the exact same.
@psychouki2 жыл бұрын
These guys think they know what they are talking about but you can't predict or conceive every possible variable that will occur while going 40+ mph down the road. Your bike had gravity and inertia working against it. Nothing is stable or motionless while moving at speed
@butlersracing76922 жыл бұрын
@@psychouki yep unless one is physically sitting in the engine you will never know what is happening with the fluid dynamics within. All I know is that my SV is still running hard even with all the abuse and rear wheel action just like many others out there.
@paulintile9 ай бұрын
Does anyone know if there is a dry sump conversion kit or a solution to relocate the oil pick-up to the rear of the engine for these bikes?
@Mad8vCycles9 ай бұрын
nope.
@marscobras8281 Жыл бұрын
I have 2 sv650 motors gonna build a good one out of the 2...Rn stumped on how to time the crank to the rear head!!! Cam timing marks are crazy!!!!
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
Grab a service manual online. There are a ton of pdfs of it.
@rafaelfrometaroman8645Күн бұрын
What if you extend the oil intake tube (with a heat resistant material) so that its always under the oil level when doing Willies? 🤔
@Mad8vCycles12 сағат бұрын
@@rafaelfrometaroman8645 see how it's in a compartment? Youd need to get it from all the way in the back. Probably more machine work than a whole bike thats good for wheelies (ninja 650 for example)
@derpinguin70032 жыл бұрын
So it’s only a problem if your oil is not full and you go 40 degrees or more? Why not fill your oil up and/or keep it under 40?
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
Not quite. Even overfilled a bit the oil goes away from the pickup. And yeah, little low wheelies wont do anything
@robertoberll17412 ай бұрын
Enyone could explain me then, why am I doing long wheelies (definitely more than 60-70 degree) on my SFV 650 Gladius and never ever seen red light (oil presure) ? How its possible?
@higtmance36412 ай бұрын
You will make the engine explode if you keep doing this, so just stop...
@piotrplewa1889Ай бұрын
Keep going. FOR SCIENCE!
@NateAnde3 жыл бұрын
doesn't this also mean going up a steep enough hill will cause the same issue?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
A 40 degree hill... you will not be able to ride up. Just from traction/power/etc.
@psychouki3 жыл бұрын
Must not go offroad much
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
On an sv?
@shootermcgavin28192 жыл бұрын
@@psychouki oh yea like you go to Ocotillo all the time and shred the gnar on your SV650..
@psychouki2 жыл бұрын
Yes on an sv650. You afraid of some dirt and twigs?? Yall ain't riding for real out there. Stop being such panzies
@damacknificent151 Жыл бұрын
Wondering if going up steep hills will probably cause the same?
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
you're not going to make it up a 40 degree hill. youd actually have difficulty walking up a 40 degree hill... kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnaomHyEpLVlY9E
@SubieMatt24 күн бұрын
I wonder if riding up some of the hills in San Francisco will cause starvation
@Mad8vCycles23 күн бұрын
@@SubieMatt id be surprised if you can WALK up a 40 degree slope much less ride
@TheBluetoo99 Жыл бұрын
Could the pickup be extended down and back with a stainless or copper elbow so the extended pickup would stay in the oil at 40 degrees? Just curious.
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
It kinds sits in its own area. And if youre splitting casss to do this... just get a different bike (the ninja 650 doesnt care for example)
@OfirMX3 жыл бұрын
How did I miss this?!
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
i... dont know. it's my single most viewed vid
@brad3201 Жыл бұрын
Good video, thank you
@marscobras8281 Жыл бұрын
Your mesurments are wrong. A static non running bike will read full. With A running bike oil level drops. You dont wheelie with the bike off.
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
I mentioned this a few times that some oil will go up to the heads etc. But there isnt a way to account for that on a table. Doesnt change the outcome (still oil starvation but a bit earlier)
@pratmak28 күн бұрын
Wheelies bad, but what about stoppies? They shouldn’t hurt anything right?
@Mad8vCycles27 күн бұрын
@@pratmak how long can you hold a stoppie lol. A few seconds wont do anything either way
@pratmak27 күн бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles so many repeated stoppie practice session shouldn’t mess anything up as long I am not holding it continuously right?
@Mad8vCycles27 күн бұрын
@@pratmak first off, i think during a stoppie oile wouldnt shift away from the pickup. Second, i dont think it's possible that youre rolling 10 second stoppies or whatever.
@recoilrob3243 жыл бұрын
What kind of dipshit would give this a thumbs down? This is conclusive proof that all the people who say the SV is a 'great stunt bike' are pretty much idiots and are dooming their engines to an early and painful death. If the wheelie is anywhere up where you can balance it...that's WAY too high! I myself am guilty of 'power wheelies' where the front tires is within a couple inches of the pavement and so far that hasn't caused any problems. And if you're running good oil it's the film strength that keeps metal from grinding on metal so a brief interruption in the oil feed shouldn't cause instantaneous death...but there are lots of places in the motor that rely on the oil flow for cooling...so be kind to your SV and keep it near the ground.
@VasyaIvanovichPupkin2 жыл бұрын
Something does not add up. What's on the other side of the baffle where the oil tube ends (starts)? If it is sealed, then the effective orafice is much lower and closer to the bottom of the pan. I also remember that they have redisigned that "baffle" for the seciond gen compared to the '99 engine.
@VasyaIvanovichPupkin2 жыл бұрын
The part I am talking about is the back plate that can be seen after 52:14 in your "sv650 motor teardown" video.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
behind that plate is the oil screen.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
it's not "sealed" like gasketed, just plated off.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
as far as baffle design, i have a bunch of cases so i can go look next time im at the shop
@VasyaIvanovichPupkin2 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles I was afraid of that ))) Time to break out the RTV! ))
@martinm.69683 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your work! Does anyone know - is it the same Story with the bigger sv1000?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
I do heh. it's the same exact layout. maybe a few more or less degrees but nothing particularly different in the sump
@olivergough85502 жыл бұрын
How much oil can you put in the engine before it negatively effects the motor?
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
a little over full. after that the clutch will start frothing it up like a cappucino at a gallon (i know this from a buddy doing it like a derp) the bike will be all but breathing oil and smoking, the clutch will be impossible to use, and will generally run like ass.
@olivergough8550 Жыл бұрын
Thankyou
@dudek4283 жыл бұрын
What is year of that engine? Is that truth, engines after lifting got better oil lubrification?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
All the sv motors are the same. Motors cant pick up oil if theyre tilted wrong
@dudek4283 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles ok, thanks A lot
@zacharybsmith19873 жыл бұрын
Could you not just extend the pickup tube to the rear bottom of the case?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
it's in a well with the strainer filter. and cant get to it without splitting cases. just the wrong bike for the job
@dobber432 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles sad it was such an easy change they could have made before making the bike
@MenderSlen57910 ай бұрын
So what would be the max safe angle?
@Mad8vCycles10 ай бұрын
it's not like it's instant death if the bike does a wheelie. it's just time without oiling that is concerning
@raymondsimpson7433 Жыл бұрын
Ii guess this applies to the vstrom 650 as well
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
Same motor pretty much
@raymondsimpson7433 Жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles I have watched this several times and I believe that a lot of left hand twistys or steep leaning turns could cause the pump to suck air too.
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
@@raymondsimpson7433 probably accurate. i know at daytona bikes need to overfill a bit so they dont blow up on the banking. however, in "normal" use, how long do you spend layed over to the left? even when im doing circle drills, it's only a few seconds before im back to vertical
@daniildaniil5185 Жыл бұрын
What lt oil ?
@daniildaniil5185 Жыл бұрын
1200ml?2000?
@danisyx58043 жыл бұрын
sharpies and moisture don't mix, it's a bloody mess but very informative.
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
Id have loved to do better, but only so many hands/time/interest :p
@danisyx58043 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles you are doing great. hoping i can get to where i am more useful maybe i can help with some of this stuff.
@FeltIntuition3 жыл бұрын
Would over filling it with oil cause other problems serious problems?
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
too much will make the clutch stick and would get frothed up by the plates. or could push past the rings. etc.
@joshbullers143 жыл бұрын
I over fill mine 1/2qt if I'm gonna be riding wheelies and I run rotela 15w40 T4 since new. No frothing and no engine issues, but then again I'm not poppin it up vertically either!
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
@@joshbullers14 1/2 qt isnt THAT much though. not even really sure if it would help the wheelie thing that much either
@joshbullers143 жыл бұрын
@Mad8v Cycles alot of people don't check em while there running either! In my opinion oil that circulating in a running engine is a way better method for oil level checking.
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
@@joshbullers14 the sightglass is empty on the sv when it's running... and should be.
@2910mack2 жыл бұрын
what about running an additional amount of oil??🤷♂
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
if you go too high with that, the clutch will froth it and not let it work
@2910mack2 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles so the only other option is some sort of custom improvised oil baffle
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
Or just using the bike as it's inteded (or selling it and getting the ninja 650 which doesnt have this)
@dedelabinouze51102 жыл бұрын
I have to say i'm confused, there's no way Suzuki would produce something that is so poorly designed. I mean basically if you accelerate hard enough on a hill climb while being on the low mark of the oil level you starve your engine too ?
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
You cant really go up a 40 degree hill on an sv. Wont have enough grip.
@dedelabinouze51102 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles The combo of hard acceleration, oil level on minimum, hill inclination let's say 15% and lower oil level due to running engine would do it though wouldn't it ?
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
@@dedelabinouze5110 maybe. kinda how at daytona with the banking people overfill the motors a bit
@dedelabinouze51102 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles How can Suzuki comes out with such a poor design though i'm confused.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
Mostly because "use case outside design parameters"
@peterfabian8863 Жыл бұрын
So up to 40 degrees is ok?
@Mad8vCycles Жыл бұрын
Make your own decisions... but with no other factors over 40 is definitely oil starvation
@Micahslooseearlobe3 жыл бұрын
Could have been a 60 second video lol
@Mad8vCycles3 жыл бұрын
Yeah im long winded: ( and editing isnt my forte
@user-kk8xn5mi3d2 жыл бұрын
how can you solve the problem with oil starvation?
Sam is an irl friend heh. For daytona we just overfill the bike a bit. But nothing is gonna cure the wheelie starvation
@user-kk8xn5mi3d2 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles do you pour more oil? and if you make a separate lubrication? separate remote tank. so that the pump pumps from there. and the sump was dry.
@tylermymclark54036 ай бұрын
You realize at this point now you could just design a fix for it so do it and patent it and then people will be stunting SVs all over the place lol
@Mad8vCycles6 ай бұрын
but... why? just get a ninja 650 if you want to unicycle. or even more usefully a 690smcr (which i thoroughly liked owning)
@MrMelvinkennedy12 жыл бұрын
1/2 quart overfill problem solved
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
crankcase pressure will be fun.... and clutch frothing it.
@MrMelvinkennedy12 жыл бұрын
@@Mad8vCycles 🤷♂️
@salvatores.77313 жыл бұрын
Ma non capisco questa dimostrazione....è una cosa ovvia
@TheSilviu8x Жыл бұрын
Non era ovvio per quelli che sostengono che sia una ottima Moto per fare i stunt/acrobazie... Effettivamente, per uso normale, perfino impennate accidentale o non, non da alcun problema, ma rimane comunque un design stupido, in quanto per esempio la Kawasaki sulle 650, a posizionato il foro di pescaggio in fondo è più in basso possibile...
@360carcrazy2 жыл бұрын
If this was true you could not go up hill.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
where the hell do you have 40 degree hills you ride up? and if you do find one, how do you not run out of traction?
@shaggjkh19852 жыл бұрын
@Mad8v Cycles my driveway is over 40 degrees, go up it all the time without issue in first gear. I've got a 2018 sv650.
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
Uhm... how? Youd have difficulty walking up 40 degrees and like... 0 cars can drive up 40 degrees
@Mad8vCycles2 жыл бұрын
Picturing this when you walk up your driveway... kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4OYdXyoncuHobM
@shaggjkh19852 жыл бұрын
@Mad8v Cycles yeah, it's steep as shit, but it's only like 50ft that goes down to my carport. I can get a good start in first and cruise on up it, only if it's dry.