Swapping and Choosing Covenants - The Deal

[@Preachgaming]

How do you guys feel about this method of controlling the swaps? I know how I feel

[@gatsuism]

you know how i feel so close to release ? Like the first dude on Titanic that saw the iceberg. I guess we know what happend next.

[@Deathrisear97]

they just need to pull the ripcord

[@Baelger]

#pulltheripcord

[@sterlingkeful340]

Looking easy enough. Just wish you earned all the major spells through the campaigns using spies or you direct the covenant to develop them through research. So, by the end of second tier you have them all.

[@Tony-hk9sg]

It's not good but it's also not really bad. Could be worse I guess

[@SadBirbHours]

I’m starting to think that Mike doesn’t like the way covenants have been implemented in Shadow Lands.

[@nhagan001]

Well you CLEARLY haven’t been paying attention! He LOVES them! The only thing he loved more than this system is mage tower! /s

[@drewj557]

Hmm. Idk. You might be right?

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

Whatever could've possibly given you THAT impression, friend?

[@fakename8961]

It's ironic isn't it. A preacher not liking covenants.

[@BruceCruce]

ok, lets calm down dude, dont jump to conclusions

[@danwaters7665]

Preach leaving the hunter savescreen on in the background confirms his main choice

[@puffin-onehandedgamer1164]

@@someguy9970 he plays it because he will be more useful on the hunter than any of the melee classes which he enjoys more.

[@Grohoful]

If he did, he would immediately swap after progression is done because he has completed the only reason he started hunter in the first place ... The rest is boring.. imagine farming an entire raid tier after progression on a hunter XD

[@britabroad1000]

Yup. You don’t get echo/ex-method to boost you on your hunter if it isn’t going to be one of your 2 mains in shadowlands

[@CodeeXD]

@@britabroad1000 whats wrong with hunter in shadowlands?

[@SwitzerLando]

@@CodeeXD Watch his choosing a main video. Preach said he doesn't like the gameplay of it, but might roll it anyway.

[@reinier4429]

The only correct choice is to pick the best looking transmogs and having the most style. Everything else is susceptible to nerfs.

[@Servellion]

Yes

[@flak1939]

I don't get why this is hard, you just go Scryer of course

[@Nyvang_r]

'Dude... I wanna be an Aldor'

[@perseverance6994]

I went scryer because the elevator to the scryers in shattrath was closer to the ground so if i hearthstoned there and jumped off i wouldn't die from fall damage.

[@Nyvang_r]

@@AmeliaDVolpe hahahahaha I love you

[@antoineguerrier2965]

@@perseverance6994 This is the most legit way to pick your TBC rep.

[@lemonbread8019]

@@Nyvang_r All they got is a damn blue staff Jimmy! Screw the blue staff! We're going for the epics. EPYKS!!!

[@yossefrawi]

Preach’s eyes are still as dazzling as the first time I took notice of them.

[@deaconsyxx322]

He makes me feel kinda funny, like when I climbed the rope in Gym class 👍🏻

[@misalignedx]

His ring light reflecting within his pupil creates an interesting effect.

[@deaconsyxx322]

Nah...Mike has chosen Kyrian, only they could have those eyes 👀

[@muffinmixish]

😍

[@Benchpass]

Like an English Wilson Fisk... Can’t decide whether to roll Necrolords or beat up Daredevil...

[@Boxedwaffle]

wow, really great rpg elements with covenant swapping. "do you want to betray your current and join us?" "sure" "are you suuuure?" "yes." "well, okay, here ya go!"

[@lordcoagula3077]

we're helping save all the covenants, it makes more sense to have all their abilities as a reward for us having saved them. Also, they are all allied against the jailer so the notion of betrayal is kinda weird.

[@randomnobody660]

Lol what are you even on. It's clear the covenents don't get along with each other initially. Ofc they don't care you betray your own. If anything it's strange they don't encourage it. Why does venthyr care that you are betraying the kirian? If anything they should reward you some extra just to screw the kirans over.

[@vulkandrache1928]

Im more interested in their ingame explanation as to why we need to commit to one faction. Im clearly the dude they all need. So why should i give a shit about their petty squabbles? Even just the way their emmisary talks to you here in the video as if hes a big shot. In a real RPG my character would slap him in the face and walk away. "Swear your loyalty to the queen of the Fae." What? At best am going to treat her as an equal.

[@Boxedwaffle]

​@@vulkandrache1928 yeah, in a real rpg, this would be a complete joke. however, because the game designers are absolute shit at their jobs, they're shoehorning in gimmicky, unfun systems that masquerade as "features" under the premise that they're key to the expansion-specific storyline.

[@ryandale9960]

@@Boxedwaffle well since wow is a mmorpg which is different than normal RPGs, I'll gladly take the hit so we can switch freely

[@Wowmusicable]

Great video, you explain this confusing system in a way so it becomes easy to understand. Thanks!

[@ZiqpY]

Thanks for your channel too bro!

[@Loldx123]

Man I am sad, I love Night Fae and I love hunter, mage and warlock. None of these classes can play Night Fae. Either I play Night Fae and feel bad or play these classes with necrolord or smth else and feel bad. I just lose.

I feel your pain... I wanna play DK but I'd have to go Night Fae and I hate to have that combination of class + covenant

[@ChinnuWoW]

Vojtěch Vach I’m going with the necrolords for my DK anyway, idgaf. My mythic raiding community isn’t going to reject me for it.

[@LazyBeastGaming]

Vojtěch Vach yeah seems such a weird fit for that class and covenant, venthyr for blood DK and Necrolord for UH are just too perfect, shame about the abilities

@@LazyBeastGaming Sad thing is that Venthyr ability would be okay for Blood. But it completely sucks for UH. And I want to play both specs. And the only way is Night Fae... And I can't play a character knowing that I could do more dps with an ability that I don't have but at the same time I really care about it fitting my backstory and transmog... I am quite fucked by Shadowlands... Thankfully there's one class that I can still play and that's Paladin. Even tho I don't love Ret I'll be happy with the other two specs and Kyrian ability.

[@kuhlbeans]

Vojtěch Vach blizz loves making people feel bad for picking what they want and not what’s best.

[@barbos1507]

Bastion ost on the background

[@TheRobochicken5494]

Honestly, lvling another character sounds faster than waiting for the reset to happen

[@Roswend]

Gearing one and collecting conduits isn't though.

[@Kittsuera]

@@Roswend which you will have to do any way when you swap. and Gearing is the easiest thing to do, especially if you keep them current. only issue will be once Alt may get the rng loot drop you wanted on your main.

[@dusk1947]

Fantastic insight and information, Thank You Preach. Honestly, I am rarely a player who uses Alt's. I have only a passing interest in them. And thus, I will probably be that player who works through all 4 and then rejoins my preferred. I suspect I will be Night Fae through the majority of this expansion, and then in the inevitable lull after 9.3 or 9.4: I will play through all of them for the sake of available content and completing them all.

[@robertrubas2634]

Man the thumbnail is so weird i love it.

[@markj.a351]

In terms of rp combined with practicality I'd like a system where you unclock each of them progressively so you're eventually be able to swap freely but each one takes more effort to unlock.

[@Vatolicious]

This would be ideal

[@aaronrothwell7615]

@@Vatolicious But making choices is good, being able to have "all of the things" makes decisions less important and so less meaningful. I know it's difficult, especially if one of the abilities is the best and then it gets balanced and something else is now better, but i doubt that it will matter too much unless you are really on the cutting edge of mythic progression. Go with what you like the look/feel of and numbers be damned :D

[@drewj557]

Aaron Rothwell or. Blizzard could just not make it about player power and let us have fun and earn the cosmetics we want?

[@nicklasjensen9043]

@@aaronrothwell7615 There is nothing meaningful about your covenant choice. On several occasions you are working with the other covenants and on no occasions are you at war with them. There is simply no story or even reasonable RPG explanation to why the Mawwalker should be allied with only one covenant.

[@aaronrothwell7615]

@rick rick is that even being discussed right now?

[@Derik.dunn07]

Player: "Why are you tying player power to covenants?" Blizzard: "We want to increase the impact of your choice, but they will be balanced so there arent too large of despairities between them." Player: "But i raid mythic, one of them is performing way better than the others but i want to choose one that i like the story and look of." Blizzard: "Well see your choice matters, your choice is you can raid mythic or enjoy the look and story." Player: "But thats stupid, you're stupid, stop being so stupid."

[@Patrins]

blizzard has a strong 16 year record of being completely unable to balance relatively simple classes. I'm sure they'll be able to balance these hideously complex systems well enough that there's no wrong choice.

[@hristopavlov298]

@@Patrins Damage-wise classes have been decently balanced for the most part

[@Yaeshi]

@@hristopavlov298 hahaha, hahahaha.... hahahahahaahahaha

[@Pandarian300]

@@hristopavlov298 sure, especially DH in 8.3 with almost 800k per hit - pretty balanced indeed

[@hristopavlov298]

Your reading comprehension skills are unsurpassed it seems.

[@confusedpebble6265]

really good info videos you are putting out. Outlining how the stuff works. thanks!

[@detheccus1132]

Seriously though the person that is making the thumbnails is a genius

[@hehhehehohohoe8807]

also the creator of "cursed" imagery

[@dantejoker2663]

I love those thumbnails too

[@zachhood7625]

The Sire Denathrius thumbnail is the best.

[@ImDissonance]

Mike, you're awesome and I'm really glad that you're a part of the community!

[@butterflysrage]

Can’t wait for 9.3 when they fix this

[@zyella277]

9.3.5 or prepatch of 10.0 (like when legiondaries in bfa prepatch finnaly had a non rng way to get specefic ones)

[@andrewshandle]

I was playing with the "can I test the abilities" yesterday in Beta and walking out of that little area with the 4 covenant and the training dummies caused the abilities to disappear. Now, I didn't try and queue to an arena in that time, but the abilities were gone even entering the inner ring of Oribios.

[@butterhead855]

Yeah this is a known bug on Beta. Abilities can randomly stop appearing, its not just the testing part.

[@aaronrothwell7615]

@@butterhead855 good job it's a long time before release then right...

[@DreamGamingS2]

This isn't a bug. The abilities are given to test in that room on the dummies. You can't take them out of that room.

[@butterhead855]

​@@DreamGamingS2 Ahh that's what he was talking about. I was thinking about the bug that makes all your abilities animations not show, and also not be able to be tracked on Details. Yeah the covenant test doesn't extend past the room.

[@WTF117drug]

butterhead855 but Preach said you could try arena and etc. with this system?

[@MythosGRsenpai]

I know you dont do pvp content but I would appreciate if you could make a video addressing the issues that pvp vendors have for feedback (maybe with also a pve-ers point of view), hoping it will reach the devs. Thanks for all the info regardless. @Preach Gaming

[@confusedpebble6265]

I'm not caught up on pvp stuff. Can you elaborate on the issues you see there?

[@botch9679]

@@confusedpebble6265 Mostly that pvp gear is alot weaker than pve gear forcing pvpers to pve again to be competitive. For example, honor gear starts of really low ilvl but can be upgraded with honor. Maxing out a piece gives the item an ilvl of 190 but that is only like 5 ilvls above an LFR piece so why do we bother to grind out all this honor just to have a piece be slightly better than an LFR piece. Also, i think another issue is that pvp gear doesnt have all secondary stat combinations available so if you need a certain secondary stat combo then you again are forced to pve. I do not mind doing a little pve for a piece or 2 but at the moment its like 6-7 pieces of gear that you will have to dungeon grind so that you can compete in pvp. obviously this can be tuned in time for shadowlands so maybe its already on blizzards radar but idk. And this could easily be fixed if they just add a pvp stat back again i honestly don't understand why blizzard is so fucking stubborn about that.

[@seraph...4473]

There is no way to gear yourself through pvp to play pvp, you have to play pve to get pvp gear.

[@botch9679]

@@seraph...4473 Yea exactly i hope blizzard fixes this. Like just imagine if this was reversed. Imagine if pvers had to play pvp to get pve gear. You guys would be livid! so imagine how us pvpers feel.

[@AfterthoughtTV]

Snoops has a good video on this. Basically: let's say you're a hardcore pve player, but blizzard says "Okay, you have to get a full set of PvP gear in order to geared enough to do mythic+ or raiding." People would lose their minds. That's what's going on and has been going on for the last two expansions. And seems to be happening again in SL. If it does, I know about 20 people that will not be playing.

[@recklessone]

Benefits of being a filthy casual. Pick Venthyr because vampire visuals are dope. Forget all the noise.

[@bonfied43]

Blizzard, when their ideas and feelings are more important than gameplay.... Love it

[@bryonmaxwell9882]

The look on Preach’s face at the opening of the video is amazing

[@schniiger9508]

I'm going to choose my covenants for my characters solely based on aesthetics.

[@MemberBerry-cu9qi]

Same. Covenant abilities are never concrete. They're going to change them over time and piss people off. Might as well get the mount you want so you always have something positive to hold onto

[@LittleRedRubberDuck]

Awesome info, great to have this cleared up! Its confusing from the outside when I dont have the beta :D

[@ioi5612]

Just make the class abilities a kind of talent row, leave all the transmogs and mounts etc covenant locked and it would like fix the problem straight away no?

[@martinmp19]

What about conduits and soulbinds

[@ramanmotamedi4046]

@@martinmp19 minmaxing can be locked too. Just let me play the aesthetic I like with the ability I like

[@ioi5612]

@@martinmp19 why not have them work like when you could change a follower to accompany you? So you drop whichever one that is in which then activates their conduits almost like pet talents, you could still have content to unlock more along the way

[@pharynx007]

i've been saying that all along. they'd have to make some change to conduits and soulbinds, but i think that is overcome-able. they could make the bonus's more generic so it matters less, or they could make them change to whatever covenant ability you have. blizzard can surely come up with a solution. but i think they are unlikely to, because it is their vision, and they know better than the players do. don't you guys have phones? the conduits are already mostly generic. there is only one that buffs your covenant class ability per class. they could just get rid of that one conduit.

[@zubrhero5270]

If they must add something, make it utility/movement. Everything else? Class spells/abilities/talents. They're so fucking adamant that new talents and spells will ruin balance... but then add new spells and talents in the form of new systems. It blows my mind, man. Failing that. Make them work in zones/world PvP only and then nobody complains about which is the right one and which is the wrong one when all it does is allow you to collect 15 boar hides a little bit faster.

[@swertooo]

i don't see myself swapping covenants, i will be playing multiple characters anyway so i will experience all covenants. I will be picking one covenant with each character and sticking with it the entire expansion, even if the faction ability isn't "the best" for it.

[@bnichoo]

Is no here appreciating the thumbnail to this video because I am

[@Essemlol]

The only thing that reeaaaly matters for "high end raiders" is what is best on the last boss of a raid. And there will be nothing stopping you from having that every single raid tier. Swapping once a week is totally fine, once the raid is on farm you can swap once a week for m+ depending on affixes for that week etc.

[@xJaGG3d]

Bless Preach for making his intro exactly 5 seconds so I can skip it with a single tap of the right arrow key.

[@vulkandrache1928]

Pointing out the important stuff. And im not even joking.

[@TheWarcraftCode]

Great video, straight to the point e just info, really enjoyed it :)

[@jzmmm]

I guess I'm running multiple chars. Thought this would be the expected route due to limited power gains per week and faster leveling.

[@igioseffi]

whats the music playing around 6:15? I know I heard it before but cant remember where

[@broomguy7]

Fill the bar by doing busywork. "dEeP aNd MeAnInGfUl ChOiCe In Muh RpG"

[@hristopavlov298]

You clearly don't know how to use that joke

[@Nihilizta]

considering the talk of pulling the ripcoard and leaving all covenent abillities free switching them without any impact. Werent it a better approach that you could by thre ones you really want for perivular use cade fromn other convrnant with some grind currency based on each convenant and if you want to use then within yout own covenent in a special use consumable that you need in your covenen and replace a coventent ability this would create player agencyy and strategy and on when to do this withou massive effort. That way it would make a meaningful work to borrow other abilities for a while

[@RomanovSC2]

Covenants should be permanent. Keep everything cosmetic, remove everything that gives power. There you go, Blizzard... fixed it for free. We learned from last two expansions that added power is terrible, so lets not make the same mistake thrice... The story and the cosmetics should be more than enough.

[@CaptainIcebeard]

That would still force people to play alts for core story. Blizzard is all over the place with whether or not they want people to play alts. In some expansions they make it prohibitively annoying, and in others they make it so you're a fool for not playing them.

[@RomanovSC2]

@@CaptainIcebeard I don't see this as a problem. Treat it like just another choice. Just like a faction, race or class choice. In all cases there is story that is not accessible after the choice. If you don't want to make an alt, watch an youtube video and you are fine. The main thing here is to not lock people out of potential power, because that will lead to negative experience for them, if the choice is wrong. Also don't punish people with "fill the bar", because they made "wrong" choice with extremely limited information.

[@CaptainIcebeard]

@@RomanovSC2 Covenants aren't factions, races, or classes though, are they? Covenants won't matter past Shadowlands. But you're right, instead of experiencing content for myself, I should just watch a video. In fact, so should you! Don't concern yourself with different abilities, just watch videos of the content you want to see. Or you could make a few alts and let each of them have a different covenant. Perhaps, you shouldn't tell me my problem with covenants doesn't matter, when there are ways around the ability problem too. But you don't want to deal with them, just as I don't want to deal with leveling 3 alts to experience all the story content I pay for. And I certainly won't watch videos of content I've paid for.

[@RomanovSC2]

@@CaptainIcebeard I can't wait to see how will you experience the opposite faction story in the new expansion that you paid for, without leveling alts. Covenants are exactly factions. Their scope is just different - a single expansion. And yes, I don't think that this is an issue at all.

[@CaptainIcebeard]

@@RomanovSC2 Well, have fun watching videos of the raids and dungeons, you can look at the loot you won't get on Wowhead.

[@DAN_I_E_L]

The way it works as described in this video seems fine to me. If I could have it my way there wouldn't be any player power gained from covenants but if Blizzard insists on it then I prefer not being forced (by my own ocd) to switch to the best one for whatever activity I'm currently doing.

[@roelofrooks3070]

This sounds all completely unnecessary, I honestly don't understand why they decided this is the hill worth dying on

[@obi-wan-cannoli]

I don't get it either. All these systems and they way they implement them is completely unnecessary. Ion needs to find himself a new job lmao.

[@Xynth22]

Honestly, they are doing it because they know people will still buy Shadowlands regardless, and then come 9.1 or 9.2 when subs start to drop they can make them swappable and bring back people that left after launch. Its the same shit they did with Azerite in BFA, and Artifacts and Legendaries in Legion.

[@ifeanychukwu2412]

@@obi-wan-cannoli Artificially extending gameplay. That's pretty much it.

[@snivels]

I am scared that the reason for it is "lack of content", so they're trying to time-gate everything. Hope I'm wrong.

[@PaulRizzo504]

It is Blizzard. They could tell the playerbase to eat shit and the defenders would give you reasons why it is a great decision. This is amazingly stupid waste of dev time.

[@coendou007]

That transistor background music hits so nicely.

[@spacemedjay4205]

I hate the idea of swapping, it feels good to commit to something. The problem is the covenants abilities. They should just make them as talents. And leave the covenants as matter of preference.

[@equipbasicsword]

This is actually what most people are saying, The camp that is pointing fingers at those who've asked about the abilities are so wrong in understanding what people want. I am honestly fine with picking a Covenant and alligning myself with that camp, get the transmog, the mount, enjoy the lore, etc. The problem is that I want my character as best as it can be, and thus I feel I should pick the Covenant that gives me the most power, not the Covenant I want. If the Covenant abilities were talents that we could swap, I'd have no problem. My DK would go Necrolords, my Shaman to Night Fae, my Warlock to Venthur, etc. As it stands though, none of those combinations are going to happen. As it stands, my DK is going Night Fae, Warlock is going Necrolord and Shaman is going Bastion.

[@LrdZanny]

Making it easy to change just defeats the lore purpose of choosing in the first place and makes it all feel like the waste of time time gated grind it is. They could have characters actually lock into these things if the abilities and soulbinds weren't restricted.

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

Yep. I want to commit to the Necrolords: I’m a DK, I like the transmog, I like the looks of the story, I’d like to ‘fight for them’. But I need the Night Fae abilities. I don’t want to be a Night Fae. It really is very dumb.

[@jaymzOG]

@@equipbasicsword Unfortunately this line of thinking is the only thing that results in the system being "bad." You probably think that because you don't want to be denied a raid group or whatever because you "chose the wrong covenant." The game is so old that the turbo nerds at the top have conditioned everyone to think this way, because the ones at the top have to think that way to stay at the top. Granted, if the abilities just feel *awful* to use, that's a different conversation. But just because "numer slightly smaller" happens, you shouldn't feel forced to change.

[@jaymzOG]

@rick rick Because that 5k dps literally doesn't matter. That 5k could be a difference in skill, in random talent choice, in gear, bad luck on procs, anything. And all it will cost you is about 5 seconds on a boss. You're inviting based on a theoretical maximum that nobody is likely to achieve. It's dumb.

[@duke_revna6404]

What I would like to see with the abilities? Remove the 1st one from the covenants and put them into Oribos. Like "The Arbiter is in a slumber, but we have a rest of power we're giving you. - Decision? Pick a ability/2nd one later". - You unlock more by playing the game. - Sounds like the azerite power from the necklace? They should put the power into the center. Covenants bring their campaigns and the 2nd ability to the table (Maybe soulbinds? But maybe make them accsessible through reputation in all covenants but the first one is the one you picked), and how the ability looks like. (Red for venthyr, etc. you get the hint). Choosing the covenant is then a flavor decision. Just the one you want to go with, the one you want to get into the inner circle.

[@Divenity]

This whole thing is stupid... Even the lore reason for why we can't freely swap is absurd... Aren't the covenants all supposed to be allies, working under the direction of the Arbiter for the good of the Shadowlands? If they are all allies working for the same entity, for the same goal, why the hell would they even make you pick a covenant to begin with? Why would they feel "betrayed" if you went to help one of the others? The entire system is absurd, even from the "RPG" perspective that they are claiming they are making it for.

[@seanhouser4510]

Even allies working toward the same goal are not friends. The new Scarlet Brotherhood in their pamflets even say they will work with Genn Graymane and the Worgens just long enough to defeat the undead. Then they will kill them too. The only goal that the arbiter has that we truly know about is keeping the machine of death running. We don’t know the true intentions of any of them yet. If each realm gains more power with more anima then some of the covenants could very well begin to have personal motives. Hell we’ve already seen dissent amongst the Kyrians and Maldraxus. So it may very wel fit into the lore as the time goes on. So yes it may very well fit an RPG lore mindset

[@Divenity]

@@seanhouser4510 Then Blizzard needs to make that clear, because I've seen nothing to suggest that the covenants aren't on decent terms with one another outside of their line about betrayal when you go to work with another one... If there is any sort of tension, discontent, or distrust between them, it isn't shown anywhere in game, and I refuse to believe that *all* the covenants would be at *all* the other covenants throats, certainly at least *a couple* of them would be on good terms with one another.

[@seanhouser4510]

@Divenity I’ve been trying to stay out of as much lore spoilers as I can, but from what I understand in the beginning bastion is being attacked by maldraxus to acquire anima from them because of the anima shortages. But considering the game hasn’t been fully released yet, and blizzard is well known for their plot twisting, so maybe in the pipeline they have it had plans for covenant vs covenant content. I for one am glad if they hold back plots points. I hate that they told us who the big last raid boss was gonna be.

[@zacktattersall3524]

The solution to this whole problem is simple let players swap freely (knowing blizz they will put a price on this like reforging but it should be free) letting players get the 3 renowned each week for each of the covenants. If you miss a week it stacks like capping PvP conquest does. For example if you miss 2 weeks for one covenant you can get 9 total to catch back up. This way people that want to keep all there covenant's maxed can do so for both player power like mythic raiders, or more casual players that want to see every element of the story and lore from each different covenant. Personally as someone who plays multiple roles and specs of both Paladin and DK being able to optimize my character for the content I am doing either M+, Mythic Raiding, or PvP. I believe that that if a player wants to put in the effort to optimize their character for every form of content it should be be non negotiable and blizz should at least give the players the option to do so. I do agree that that even this system requires a lot of grinding but blizzard has not given us a better option at this point and id rather see this then players that want to strive for higher content wont be either benched or declined from a mythic plus group for not being the right covenant.

[@CommandoJenkins]

Why is it so difficult to make an expansion that allows players to get cool mounts, armor and weapons without some convoluted system in place?

[@s4nder86]

Loot alone won't keep many people playing. I used to quit shortly after hitting max level before Legion when there was finally enough to do.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

I personally like convoluted methods to get mounts and transmogs, if everything is piss easy to get it loses its value...Player POWER however is an entirely different discussion

[@lukaskonecny9992]

@@s4nder86 tbh most of the players I played with and they quit, quit because they are sick of the system upon system approach, they would much more like to get the gear and do dps, and I agree with them tbh. It was cool in legion, but now it is just annoying.

[@CommandoJenkins]

I'm a completionist and there's just too much to do lol.

[@dirtymightmusic5239]

i can completely understand their way of thinking and it would be fine.. if there wouldnt be a power that you NEED to swap if you want to play in multiple areas of the game.. they can just leave the system as is and give you the choice of "let me borrow your power" so you can use/switch the covenant ability without actually swapping the covenant and all of the rp, etc. etc.

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

Either i pick the strongest ability for my class and feel miserable because i can't have the vampire castle experience i want in the expansion, or i pick the vampires and feel miserable in raid because i've gimped my character lol

[@__-fi6xg]

Or you stop finding excuses for feeling miserable and start enjoying life.

[@starstrk]

Preach - are there currently any instances where the best performing covenant (abilities, conduits, all of it) for one spec of a class is different than another spec of that class? Thinking about classes that can fill multiple roles - especially 3 or 4 like druid, pally, etc. That condition would make this system untenable. That would mean you would be forever gimped in at least one of your classes roles.

[@stevenscholz8978]

Pretty much every class atm, none of the covenants are working how blizzard wants them too and none of them are even close to "balanced well enough that your choice wont feel bad" lol.

[@jiffypoo5029]

I would be fine with the two week trial to get back into a covenant we left if the Class Abilities weren't tethered to the Covenants. Blizzard should just make them talents then I wouldn't care. I'm a Rogue that has BIS Soulbinds in Revendreth and BIS Class ability in Maldraxxus but I want to play Nightfae... so f me I guess.

[@hughsdtf]

So my idea would be once you complete the story for each zone. You unlock the abilities. As you progress with each convenant you learn their ways and ability and you retain that knowledge only limited to one at a time like talent system. For rp stuff you only use enough to learn at a time and have to retrain for other if you swap. This will allow us to change freely depending on content. But make it where you align yourself with one convenant for the other stuff. Soulbinds will be like garrison followers once you make that connection they are there for you and work with other convenants for the greater good. So you can choose the layout you wish.

[@AdrasAdraki]

Me: hi there Ex cov: You dare show your face here after you betrayed us??? *fills the bar* Me: hi again Ex Cov: hello there yikes.

[@Tiralstrom]

Worst part is : They are not even enemies in the lore, so what's this about a betrayal?? It feels like elementary school where you decide to hang with a group of friends, and your other jealous group of friends starts whining and calling you a traitor, and how they won't play with you ever again...

[@AdrasAdraki]

@@Tiralstrom then you fill the bar and its all gucci

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

MEANINGFUL CHOICE.

[@puffin-onehandedgamer1164]

I know right.. the RP value here in a RPG game is real, so stupid. But I guess Blizzard are embracing that WoW is a MMO first and a RPG second.

[@kuhlbeans]

So if my focus is pvp and I select my coven based off that. I’m basically not going to be picked up for mythics because I didn’t pick the optimal pve covenant?

[@Rex93241]

The cost isn’t enough. It should be brutally annoying to switch. Make it a costly choice. Get rid of this meta attitude towards the game. Start enforcing some loyalty. Make it easy to play multiple alts, sure. Make it hard to swap a main back and forth, yes.

[@jimmycooley4753]

Diggin the Bastion soundtrack in the background :)

[@Joel-xd8lk]

Played beta on my dk for 1 day and already had the issue of liking my class ability in m+ but then hopping into some arenas and seeing.. oh shit.. everyone's maldraxxus.. now im gimped if I wanna do 2 different types of content even in just one spec. not to mention switching specs...

[@puffin-onehandedgamer1164]

well, now you don't have to choose, isn't it lovely? choices won't matter.

[@bosinclaire7670]

Pffft super simple solution just level 2 seperate exact same characters~ Increase that enjoyment (and play time/money spent). Super simple and not at all annoying..

[@classicshanetv7001]

The personalized player experience of soulbinds and conduits is what should be the biggest thing to get into the hands of players. We haven't received a new talent row since WoD, I think a nice way to go about this would be making it feel like a new talent at level 60. We can swap in and out of covenants within the cities or using a tome, but this would only unlock once we are 60 and have played all of the content and have "learned" all of the spells from the covenants. I think this would give a more complete feeling compared to the Class Artifact system of Legion, which added spells and player customization through your weapon AND let you switch between out of combat.

[@RazorClaw999]

I think the it almost is like Ion is protecting himself or a friend underling from getting fired because of now 4 strikes of piss poor systems in 4 different expansion packs.

[@seanhouser4510]

Minus corruptions there have been no bad systems

[@Amandor2011]

@@seanhouser4510 azerite armor, essences, ap grind Like all the bfa systems were absolute grindfest garbage

[@RazorClaw999]

Sean Houser corruptions the best over titan forging filthy casuals

[@RazorClaw999]

Amandor corruptions was the best way to do a better increase of iLvL system compared to titan forging

[@Trickytickler]

@@seanhouser4510 What about Titanforging, Azerite armor, essences, benthic gearing and having to do world quests and boring island expeditions to grind AP so you can actually use the armor you get from raids?

[@zacharybond9419]

I am curious about the rewards that you receive when you join a covenant. When you leave that covenant do you loose those items and are they replaced with the new covenant ones or do you get to keep them and also acquire the new ones. I haven't heard anyone talk about the cosmetic items at all and what happens when joining and leaving covenants. I really like all of the plate sets of gear. As far as I can see right now I have to make 4 different plate wearers to acquire that gear. Is this how it will be or will be able to get that gear as the story progresses as we help out each different covenant?

[@Handles119]

Can’t wait to choose my BIS covenant like every expansion regardless of what I want. GG?

[@Pwkoizoie]

Will the renown catch up allow you to be completely caught up the week you swapped covenant (as much renown as if you never switched) or will it be time-gated (like corruption resistance was), meaning you'll be missing conduits and soulbind abilities until the next x weeks ? If you are not caught up at 100% as if the covenant you switched into is the one you picked from the start, it's not worth switching.

[@tekamer6566]

The thumbnail is cursed beware !

[@DrakesDark]

Oh gods, that's Bastion in the background! and I mean the game Bastion! that ost is beautifull.

[@xBlackDawnx]

Ugh why couldnt these abilities just be like pvp talents or just a new talent row...

[@crazyphoenickss]

Ugh, why can't players just stop worrying about their abilities and just pick stuff they want to pick, regardless of the differences? E-peen on this game just needs to stop being so worried about.

[@jakepietrzak7552]

@@crazyphoenickss ugh, why can't people play the faction they want to play without getting stuck with a shit ability that inst fun. Why do I have to weigh lore interests with game interests

[@crazyphoenickss]

@@jakepietrzak7552 You can totally play the faction you want to play. What makes your ability shit? If you say damage I'm going to smack you because it's beta, not live. That's a tuning issue that can easily be fixed with buffs or nerfs. Also, why does it matter to you so much? Just pick something you find the coolest and stick with them. No big deal, stop being jelly.

[@Dirkage]

@@crazyphoenickss If you think blizzard are going to actually balance it then smack yourself you dipstick

[@crazyphoenickss]

@@Dirkage If you think they're not gonna have nerfs happening to the strongest covenant, you're sadly mistaken. Nerfs absolutely will happen to covenants. Buffs to the weaker ones, I dunno, but nerfs to the strongest will happen. People keep panicking over something so stupid it's nonsensical. Will they be balanced when 9.0 comes out? No. By 9.0.5, 9.1? Probably, a lot closer than at launch. By 9.2? Sure. They balanced corruptions to be more in-line with one another than they were at the start. They balanced essences, azeirte traits and legendaries from legion to be closer. Sure, it takes them a while, but things do get balanced. It also depends though on what you mean by balance. Are you referring to being within 5% of one another? probably not, within 10%? Absolutely so. The legion legendaries were balanced to where for most specs, the best was roughly 7% ahead of the worst. The azerite traits were balanced too, for the most part or changed mid-seasons. The corruptions were balanced right away within the first few months. If you think they won't do that with covenants within a few months of them being out you're terribly mistaken.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

What happened to the most recent drama time episode? I went to watch it and it's gone?

[@TheTorridestCheese]

Wait, that's it? Just do a world quest and next week you can swap? That's totally fine with me. Balancing the covenants aside, if I'm going to focus on progression raiding I'll use whatever the best ability for that is. I highly doubt I'll be pushing arena rating/M+ during that time, so I'm cool with not swapping. When the raid is on farm and I want to push M+? I'll just swap. Seems like a great compromise to me.

[@TheSilverwing999]

Well you still have to grind renown again if you switch to a covenant you haven't joined before. And renown is important since it gives you world quest item levels and such per rank.

[@TheTorridestCheese]

@@TheSilverwing999 That isn't so bad. It's just like grinding a new rep. You'll still get the ability. If you still keep your renown from covenants you left, then I don't have a problem with it.

[@87fullmetal]

Can you please provide what addons you're using? Your UI, mini map chat window. hotbars how you can move the NPC chat window around. thank youuuuu

[@tstRdaBrute]

I realy dislike the system. Im a cutting edge raider and my guild expect me to pick raid focused covenant ofc, but i also pushing arenas at 2,4 and my teammates expect to pick pvp based covenant. In the past 16 years there were no point in game where i would be "toolkit" wise behind compared to the same class.

[@Trickytickler]

@ If you are even remotely interested in end game content you really do give a shit. This system is garbage as it currently is.

[@TheDanimal4]

choosing a covenant is like choosing a class , talents or profession. There’s always something better.

[@Trickytickler]

@@TheDanimal4 You can't really compare them to talents or professions. Because talents you can freely swap so you can have the one you want for m+, the ones you want for raids and the ones you want for PvP and so on. And picking a profession doesn't hamstring your DPS and performance when progressing raids or pushing keys.

[@TheDanimal4]

Trickytickler well then compare it to a class. You choose and stick to what you like or what does the best in order to achieve your goal in the game. That’s why people’s like and wanted classic wow so badly. Clearly they’re taking some inspiration from that in reducing levels back down , adding back old abilities and now this. Choosing a profession did hamper Dps when the go to was engineering and no one complained back then. Heirlooms just overtook the use of it.

[@Trickytickler]

@@TheDanimal4 I was clearly talking about retail wow and not how engineering is incredibly strong on Classic. For the record, plenty of people complained back then and plenty of people complain now too. The main problem is that the covenant is not like picking a class, at all. Because for example a Rogue with X covenant will perform vastly better than a Rogue with Y covenant. How is this like picking a class? How can two people of the same class, spec and skill level perform completely different just because of some arbitrary nonsense? And if you want to do multiple things (raids, PvP, M+ or swap spec to tank or healer if your class can do it), the system punishes you for doing so. That is not like picking a class, at all. The system is completely scuffed and there isn't a meaningful choice involved at all, because if you want to push high end content you pick what gives you the best performance, not simply what you like. Plus, how many balancing changes will we see from launch until heroic tuning 3 weeks into the xpac? When Blizz decides to nerf something into the ground while buffing something else. What are you going to do when your guild is progressing and you basically have two dead abilities for a couple of weeks while waiting for the nonsense bar to fill up?

[@MrShivshank]

so glad they are making it easy for alts. my mains always resto drood. but im having alot of fun with frost dk, arms war and aff lock.

[@krayt5875]

Simplest solution would have been to not tie player power to this system, but who am I to question Blizzard's "meaningful choices".

[@Aka_daka]

Hey mate, I picked Covenant that I regret picking and want to pick Another do you lose your Conduit's and stuff you gained if I join another Covenant? I can't find clear answer on Wowhead, Forums and all that.

[@tegrity5822]

I bet parts of this expansion are going to be really fun. I also bet parts of this expansion are going to be BFA 2.0 .

[@kirkalmeida]

is there any class that has their best M+ and Mythic ability on the same covenant cause I'm probably going to main that class.

[@lordcoagula3077]

fury warrior lol

[@Criticrazy]

Night Fae for Druid currently for Feral, Resto, Guardian, IDK for Balance. DK also picks Night Fae for all three specs.

[@kirkalmeida]

@@Criticrazy Great that's thematically appropriate as well druid it is.

[@Criticrazy]

@rick rick I think the ripcord is going to get pulled eventually its just a matter of if Blizzard plays this one reactive or proactive.

[@janetrajkoski1424]

I liked the closing sentence, this is only implemented to slow you down, nothing more. It's honestly the stupidest thing they've done in a while, and they have done many stupid things. Just let me play the game...

[@seanhouser4510]

You can play the game just fine. You just don’t get to have EVERYTHING. Pick 1 thing at a time and be happy with it.

[@janetrajkoski1424]

@@seanhouser4510 You see that may work for you, but it doesnt for me. I want to be optimal. Why is that a problem? We always had everything, total freedom to pick whatever talent we want. Now we suddenly cant? Because i dont know what you think, but covenant abilities are just talents, nothing more. Dont get me started on 1 week cooldown on respec...

[@phils2goud786]

Because if they don’t gate and slow people down then they have to develop more content at a quicker pace and thats a problem it cost money.

[@kalebdemond74]

If you change covenants do you still have access to the transmog set of the previous covenant? I am assuming not, but would like to know if you do.

[@theparadisesnare]

This is officially the dumbest thing blizzard has ever cooked up

[@xipheonj]

And this is the company that made Azerite Armor and Warlords of Draenor. That is saying something.

[@theparadisesnare]

@@xipheonj i would happily go back to WoD over this, because at least the classes i played then were very fun. They have shit all over my favorite classes since then. Fuck Ion and his shitty ideas

[@Andy-xd5dj]

Mikedraxxus in the thumbnail is probably the most dangerous creature ever seen

[@Lunethzero]

9:29 when blizzard announces new content and ran out of ideas.

[@Ren0wn]

That window in your room which just has a brick wall in the way hahaha.

[@MediocreGames13]

*Fun Fact: Fun facts aren’t fun and usually aren’t even facts, including this one*

[@byroncox7465]

I hope it goes vampire>tree folk>cops>military for the raids. Ending with complete domination as the entire shadowlands might against the jailer.

[@xipheonj]

The more I hear about this the more utterly confused I am that they tie player power into lore and story. They completely out of touch and dense.

[@jb1139]

Cat wait to pick the meta covenant for my class and spec so I can maybe get into groups. Would hate to pick the wrong on. Already don't have AOTCx 3 to link. Gunna be great trying to do m+ this time round.

[@Alacod19]

im here for the comments (*insert popcorn meme*)

[@seanhouser4510]

I used to be that way, but too many snot nosed brats wanting everything made my head hurt. To many kids these days that their parents don’t teach them about choice and consequences.

[@Zephryus101]

what about continuous swaping going forward in the story line w/ out doing a sweap bck? In other words can you just keep progressing from one to the other to do all 4 and end up in the Cov. that you started in w/ no penalty?

[@BogzySama]

Swapping BACK to the covenant you started will hit the timegating but it seems that yes u can swap TO each of the new covenants just cant insta swap back to one u left.

[@Nacrolize]

Dem blue blue eyes... on a side note.... i dont care, i chose necrolords the moment i saw them, and im a paladin main.

[@grilledleeks6514]

What are the renown catch ups? people keep saying there is one but I dont see any info on it.

[@kylerobinson7034]

#pulltheripcord. this stupid fill the bar thing they want us to do just feels so bad and not try and be the best guilde we can be. makes me sad that they want us to not be what we need for our friends. thanks blizzard.

[@andrewshandle]

Fill the Bar = Meaningful Choice apparently.

[@Michaelkayslay]

Have we worked out which is best for which spec yet ?

[@ic3t3ap3ach]

What i want is a talant row with all abilities :) and remove the 1 week cd from conduits. thx peace out

[@EDHCoffee]

Unlock Soulbinds and Covenant abilities from Covenant Choice. Let us bind with any 3 Soulbinds permanently - no changing. Covenant abilities are a talent row. I saved Bastion from themselves, I unlocked the Seat of the Primus, I saved the Heart of the Forest and literally have a portion of its power inside me and I exposed Sire Denathrius. Let me keep the power I've earned and form deeper bonds with the Souls I've encountered that matter to me.

[@ajijvimev]

Can't wait for people to miss BFA once this mess comes out

[@nathanslijkhuis7159]

This is good for the game, now my people who play M+ and M raiding have to learn to master there class because the switch all the time for better dps

[@suntiger745]

Switching to the appropriate ability/talent for the dungeon or raid boss you are about to do *is* part of mastering your class. It's like being presented with a board to cut, a nail to hammer in, a piece of pipe to measure and a shelf to drill a pair of holes into. To do the job you get a saw, a hammer, a ruler and a drill. You're allowed to pick one tool for all four jobs.

[@luniers4629]

The more I hear and read about the covenants, the less I want to play this expansion.

[@Sivet555]

The big brain move is gonna be to never choose, but just forever be in the intro where you can try out the abilities ^^

[@randyshackleford9113]

"Im not here to tell you if I like the system or not Im just explaining to you" God I wish Journalists could do this

[@kalibos]

They can, but you have to be very critical of your sources. Unfortunately sometimes the best you can do is to read both all sides' biases.

[@adrianwithane]

Journalists do this plenty. Either you’re looking at shitty sites or it’s your own biases that are reflected on what you believe you’re reading.

[@jakepietrzak7552]

If one person says its raining, and the other says its not, its not bias to go outside and report the truth.

[@rosco3]

Do you maintain your old covenant abilities while you're filing the bar? Or are you in a void without any covenant ability?

[@Opharg]

You keep them until you rejoined the new/old one

[@RDB33]

the stupid thing is, no one is asking to swap covenants. people just want to pick what ability they use in certain situations and still be allowed to hang out with the ones you like the most. it makes no sense story wise for us to be locked out. why does this even need to be a CHOICE? #PullTheRipcord

[@MrRanderas]

yes and as preach said thats precisely what blizzard dosent want you to do

[@RDB33]

Helluin but why? They lose out on literally nothing by letting us do it? 😂

[@gampie13]

@@RDB33 actualy they do lose "something", they have to admit that they where wrong, and blizzards track record is to atleast wait 2 expansions, generaly 3, to say they "maby be wrong"...

[@MrRanderas]

@@RDB33 i think the idea itself sounds interesting and i want to see where blizz is going with it, so thats something i'd miss out on

[@benoitrousseau4137]

If they do one raid per covenant, I wonder which covenant will get screwed. My money's on Night Fae since the Kyrians' story has huge lore implication and well deserving of a raid.

[@mildakriksciunaite8614]

#pulltheripcord - for the love of god, thanks activi$ion :DDDDDDDDD

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

This has nothing to do with Activision or even money, it’s literally just stubbornness on the part of the design team because they’ve given themselves the task of ‘create meaningful choice in this RPG’ and refuse to accept that they’ve failed to implement something that never even needed to exist.

[@puffin-onehandedgamer1164]

@@JohnSmith-yx8kf Oh the horror of having to choose in a RPG game am I right? it's a good thing they fixed that. FYI. if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic here.

[@WarbroJavaCo]

Best thumbnail period