Sydney's Northern Beaches - How can we improve transport?

[@suave-rider]

We have had planners in TfNSW on this case for years. They were the ones who brought us the B-line bus rapid transit system against a lot of local opposition.

[@roaming-aus]

I’m a former bus driver out of Brookvale depot 24 years ago and this same subject was well discussed back then. In my opinion rail, be it tram or train, would help solve the issues. but the “ insular peninsular” community just can’t agree on anything especially the “special” northern residents.

[@Dobuan75]

The isolation of the Northern Beaches was exemplified during covid lockdown, when the police only had to man 4 roads to effectively shut it down. A metro (subway) line from North Sydney with stops between Cremorne and Neutral Bay, Spit Junction, an elevated bridge over the Spit to avoid deep stations, and a branch line back along Mona Vale road to Chatswood would make sense... but this is Sydney, so I say we build a monorail! All the great towns have them: Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook. Interchange with a cable car over the Heads, the Spit and Roseville Bridge. We'll call it "The Sydney Flyer.

[@Thatonestrangefella]

Great idea !💡

[@ThomasNing]

great video, very thorough without being an overload.

[@ScottsMarbleRuns]

Nice video. I'd love to discuss your ideas at length but the KZbin comments section is hardly the place for it. One of the few channels that seems to have a decent grip on transport planning and operations!

[@AnonyDave]

"pushing patronage to unsustainable levels" has to be one of the most nimby things I've ever heard. It completely ignores how the roads are already unsustainably overcrowded with oversized vehicles carrying one person. Improve society, fuck the "profits"

[@Zorren0808]

Excellent video as usual!

[@thetrainguy4]

You’re so generous! Thanks!

[@blue.square]

If the metro ever gets built, it'll probably be a bored tunnel the entire way, but it would be cool if they explored the idea of having it elevated over Pittwater Road. It would be way cheaper to build but probably hard to engineer. Great video as always!

[@nickstopic7421]

Unfortauntely I think this would be ripped to shreds by the typical residents who are "concerned for the character or the area" and other things like that

[@rollingthunder9087]

@@nickstopic7421 The irony being that Pittwater Road is a dump especially through Collaroy.

[@electro_sykes]

I had an idea of building a light rail line from Manly to North Sydney. This would begin on the pedestrianised section on Sydney Road, which would be rebuilt to accommodate a tram terminus. It would then be running westward towards The Spit. After reaching Spit Bridge, the light rail would transition onto a newly constructed light rail bridge built adjacent to the current Spit Bridge, as the existing bridge is unsuitable for this purpose. The line would then follow Spit Road and Military Road, with these roads modified to accommodate the light rail by removing bus lanes and reducing car lanes to one lane per direction. This reconfiguration would require the construction of the Beaches Link to manage displaced vehicle traffic and to allow for this above ground transformation to take place with minimal disruption to traffic. Continuing westward, the light rail continue along falcon street before tuning onto Miller Street which would be pedestrianised above Victoria Cross Metro Station, as would Blue Street, where the light rail terminates next to North Sydney Station. This area would also be transformed into a pedestrian-friendly precinct. Passengers would be able to change to either Metro at Victoria Cross or Trains at North Sydney.

[@PCLoadLetter]

Articulated double deckers aren't unheard of. Best of both worlds on steroids! Just put the batteries under the lower floor seating to keep the centre of gravity low.

[@thetrainguy4]

Lmao

[@Thatonestrangefella]

Imagine driving a double decker articulated bus 😂

[@PCLoadLetter]

@@Thatonestrangefella Bonus points if it's also double-articulated, like the new buses in Brisbane! Definitely need wider lanes & additional pay!

[@edwardbarnett6571]

@@Thatonestrangefella No diffence to driving a normal semi on big roads mate.

[@TrainGuy-b1w]

I think they did that in germany once in the 70s and the bus ended up falling apart and crashing into things since it was to big

[@ArchonToten]

For the manly ferries, I'd bring the busses back into the warf concourse, halving the walk times, build a dedicated escalator/ramp where people can get to circular quay station. The improve loading and unloading with a new better ferry featuring a front wide landing craft style loader.

[@slimdarcy9503]

Very well thought out

[@johnmunns5964]

I was always told the Bilgola Bends ended B1 north of Newport however "the Bends" up top at the front on the old Atlanteans was always a fun trip, specially if the driver was making up time😁

[@jack2453]

Great stuff. Good summary of options. It would also be good to explore more hybrid optons. An issue I see is that LR/BRT would be fine for the Pittwater Rd end but would (and does) overload Military Rd. On the other hand Metro would work for Cremorne/Mosman but is a bit of overkill for Northern Beaches - and could not be delivered in less than 20 years given the current work program. How about a short (ish) tunnel for trams/electric buses from Falcon Street to Mosman Junction to make the B1 work better.

[@darkillusionists2595]

For the metro part I was always under the impression the route goes from Northern Beaches to Randwick and Little Bay via Royal Botanic Garden. But I really like the B-line network idea a lot!

[@shaunpattinson1621]

Imagine if Bradfield’s original vision was implemented; trains up to Newport. If only….

[@PCLoadLetter]

@@shaunpattinson1621 Newport? Why not Erina & Tuggerah?

[@jimdonovan9961]

It's good to see one of these videos that recognises the issue of bus bunching and the need to control average passenger waiting time. However, I think you should canvass the issue of a metro connection between Chatswood and perhaps DY via NBH. The original plan for ECRL had stub tunnels at Roseville for the purpose of such a connection but the stubs were dropped when gradient changes complicated the connection. The complications should be addressed. The idea would be to not only improve travel times between Northern Beaches and the CBD but also to have a decent connection from the peninsula towards the west and north-west.

[@afs5609]

The one complication with the use of increased ferry use is the weather, on several occasions over the last fifty years ferry services have been cancelled due to fog & heavy sea's entering through Sydney heads.

[@reneschneiderAustralia]

Some great ideas, if you were at the forum, I did ask why the roads are not priortised or equipped with a green wave option. The answer was lame, we tried it.... ??? It works in Europe!

[@Gary-vv5gt]

As a northern beaches bloke, i will say that at the bare minimum 5am-9pm on weekdays and 8am-6pm on weekends for bus lanes for those roads where there's 2 lanes on the B1, 2, 3 and 4 routes that you mentioned. Would liked it to be 24 hours but i think just those times are good enough. Also to further enhance efficacy, make spit bridge closed at these time frames to improve things outside the peak. B2 issues: - Wonder what will serve the all stops (since 199 is just an all stop variant of B1, but divert to manly and i don't think there are suitable routes to cover the loss of 199 for a limited stop B2). Maybe mishmash 191-192 to newport or mona vale (which 191-2 will serve the newport pub, that is an issue with 199 doing this route, this sector doesn't overly need buses like every 5-10 mins, 20 mins is fine, its eat heavily into the 199 time as per is ), 155, 156 and a merged 182-185 to westfield brookie at best? The coverage is okay for brookie to manly at least. Maybe even do set minibus services and due to driver shortage, drivers there can get LR which would be easier to do for some of these low traffic routes. - One lane between newport and palm beach (with a stupid roundabout for bilgoa bends) apart from a bit of 2-3 lane road near avalon shops, so no matter whats get done, that will be a bottleneck during peak and hot days. Can't see that being solved without massive works or being a headache. - I'm not sure whats the issues there with double deckers and the bends past newport but this route will have to be a bendy bus usually (with a few normal buses). I will say even a revised version of the buses that are currently in the north sydney depot would be fine for this route. B3: - I think its just a revised version of 160x really, so i can't say for any improvements (maybe whack an bike shed/park and ride and better bus stops for B3. As well as making the whole route bus lane. (That archer st turnoff, those 2 lanes between pac highway and archibold rd and whatnot may be a bit of a bastard to solve, but i think there some work around). - If chatswood interchange can fit a double decker, then a double decker would be perfect. Otherwise like B2, the revised nth sydney depot bendy is fine as well. B4: - Like B3, there are enough routes that will cover the loss of stops due to limited stops (such as 100, 113, 114 and 115 to cover the north sydney/mosman and chatswood sector). The current 172/173x will supplement the all stops north of spit rd to seaforth and maybe bring in a 165 route that will mimic the 165x but for off peak but all stops and terminate at the spit jct. Its kinda hard to say which should go to, but I think its should be split into 2 routes B41 for north sydney and B42 to RNSH. Its will run like 10 mins each (during off peak with more during peak) but then once its split then its 20 mins each from north sydney and RNSH.

[@davidpickford.]

I wasn't even aware the Manly fast ferry is the same price as Sydney Ferries, good to know for the future. I agree they should just integrate Manly fast ferry and Sydney ferries it doesn't make sense to have them leaving at the exact same time they should space them 10 minutes apart.

[@HaydenS-jh9gt]

The use of the third option for the metro would be the best as they could also extend the line through the unused/unbuilt tunnels and platforms through the city to Redfern then travel north west through Balmain, Drummoyne, Gladesville, Ryde, west Ryde and into parramatta and even another extension to norwest

[@lachlanmcgowan5712]

My wild plan for the Northern Beaches, ideally built to supplement a Metro, is a light rail line from Chatswood station to Manly wharf. - Head E out of Chatswood centre to Penhurst St, then N up to Boundary St, then follow Boundary St E and N - At Roseville Chase turnoff, instead of going down to the Roseville Bridge, light rail instead breaks off to the north into its own alignment to avoid the steep downward slope and flooding risks of the bridge. The new bridge would be much higher and more direct with cycling, walking and light rail lanes only, rejoining Warringah Rd near Valley Rd. - Continue following Warringah Rd NE past the hospital out to Brookvale, then find a good way to turn onto Pittwater Rd. This might involve using a side street or might just involve compulsory acquiring the carpark of some of the businesses near the intersection of the roads. - Follow Pittwater Rd S with stops at the stadium and the mall. After the mall, continue down Pittwater Rd after it loses the A8 designation. - Keep following Pittwater Rd across Manly Creek. Turn at the roundabout near the park and keep following Pittwater Rd as it becomes Belgrave St. The line ends with a balloon looping tram stop directly in front of the ferry wharf. Would anyone ride this line end to end? No. But it provides an extremely good radial connection between two of the best rapid transport hubs in the area with a potential connection to a third hub (presumably the Metro will have a stop at or near Warringah), as well as multiple connection points to employment hubs so that people who live outside of the Beaches can use the light rail for a last-mile connection.

[@jimdonovan9961]

Hell will freeze over before the Roseville bridge floods.

[@suave-rider]

wrong. the answer is Hot Air Balloons/

[@lachlanmcgowan5712]

Also, I absolutely love the idea of a Northern Beaches Metro that crosses the Harbour Bridge. But there are a few questions and assumptions involved that I think we can play with before settling on a route. - In the south, instead of entering Wynyard, would it be better if the Metro followed the current Cahill Expressway route and went over the top of Circular Quay instead? Turn Circular Quay into a three-level station with trams and ferries on the ground floor, trains in the middle and metro on top. Wynyard has better interchange potential, but it's already extremely busy, whereas Circular Quay would let us extend the line to the SE if we squeeze some dive sites into the M1 corridor (the road, not the train). - Having a station at Milsons Point is a good idea (especially if the Metro goes to Circular Quay, because then it doesn't interchange with the T9), but does the Metro have to stay in the current train corridor to North Sydney? The old T9 corridor is very inefficient and loopy, after all, and you're doing a lot of work to preserve the train storage spaces in the area. How about, after stopping at Milsons Point, the Metro stays on the east side of the Cahill Expressway, finds a nice dive site (maybe somewhere near the roundabout interchange of Pacific Highway/High St/Arthur St?) and then heads over to Victoria Cross? I don't think you could actually get a cross-platform interchange with Victoria Cross this way, there's no way the Harbour Bridge Metro could dive deep enough, but I'm pretty sure you could at least build a parallel station cavern.

[@Gary-vv5gt]

Since my previous comment was long, here's a second comment if the northern beaches road and/or metro come into fruition (i bloody need to do a video myself on the response tbh). If northern beaches road tunnel wasn't canned, here's the changes i could see since the tunnel will have a bus lane. - Change lane 7 and 8 on harbor to purely bus lane but inverted so milson point, wynard and something closer to north sydney busport have an island platform (or upgrade the cahill to be a busport at CQ but wynard is a better option for interchange tbh). Wynard platform 1-2 will become a busport assuming double deckers will fit. Also other routes from north west/train replacement or any buses that go to wynard can use this. Also if possible raise the barriers so cars and buses don't crash. Have an turnoff for all services that goes to other places can access the warrigah freeway to do other service and direct turnoff to northern beaches tunnel for northern beaches routes. How i think b line routes will change if a northern beaches road tunnel gets restarted. - B1 will be adjusted that its will be the usual from Mona Vale to Manly Vale then express to city with only stopping at those busports mentioned. Not sure if i want B4 route to run via that tunnel and shoot out somewhere since Mosman/Netural bay will lose 2 frequent bus routes and access to NB. But i think route 100 can have a good tweak to run as frequently as b-line or be its own B5 or whatnot. - B2 will have big adjustment, rather than to divert to Manly, its will divert to an upgraded wakehurst parkway from narrabeen and head into the city (with also maybe a stop at NBH on the wakehurst), like an upgraded 190x which also run during off peak and 199 can be kept as per usual but with less frequency and have some 199x during peak which will skip newport pub and some stops along the way. Will be bendy as per mentioned in my previous comment. - I say B3/4 will remain as per your video and my previous comment.

[@shaunpattinson1621]

@@Gary-vv5gt the BeachesLink would have killed off any possibility of a train

[@Gary-vv5gt]

@ yeah point taken, metro should come ahead of road links…. But I’m just working out ideas of road link get built and how to best use it

[@lachlantula]

amazing video!

[@LetterboxFrog]

Using LIM motor medium metro (like Vancouver) that can handle hills better and have smaller tunnels due to smaller wheels (the track is the motor), could be easily built from Royal North Short over the top of the A8 (Military Road, Spit Road, etc ) all the way to Mona Vale, ignoring Manly which can benefit from ferries. Elevated rail would also be cheaper than tunnelling. It will annoy users of the Corridor, but once built would remove many vehicles from the road.

[@utareangara5529]

Jetcat was ALWAYS more expensive before. thats good to know

[@carisi2k11]

Simple a Metro. Run it under military road and across middle harbour on a new bridge at The Spit.

[@rollingthunder9087]

Simpler to run the metro to Victoria Cross and use the existing infrastructure,

[@johndwilson6111]

@@rollingthunder9087 too many passengers 😞

[@josephj6521]

Isn’t it strange how cities around the world can build metros without the need for highrise boxes nearby (examples: Paris, Athens, London, etc) but hear it’s a requirement? Nothing will get done with that mindset.

[@thetrainguy4]

Those cities built their metros many, many decades ago when it was much, much cheaper. They continued to build so their costs are cheaper than ours today but even then they still do need the housing uplift to justify further construction. Comparing apples and oranges here.

[@rollingthunder9087]

The London Underground did realise that density was necessary which is why the different companies would buy land beyond the suburbs and develop to are to create a demand.

[@peterbreis5407]

Well processed. I'm curious why you didn't include a light rail running the length of the Northern Beaches and a high bridge over The Spit from ridge to ridge.

[@thetrainguy4]

Light rail would be incredibly expensive and that money should just go to either a proper train or better buses. A bridge would be so expensive!

[@peterbreis5407]

@@thetrainguy4 News just in, "a proper train" costs WAY more than light rail, ignoring the population doesn't justify it, and you need a bridge to get across Middle Harbour one way or another.

[@nanobyte5567]

Ferries are only useful to people living within Manly. Anywhere else, you may as well get a bus. Problem with ferries is there can be longer waiting times to alight at Circular Quay due to other ferries already docked. Another main problem is if the ocean is too rough, the ferries get cancelled for safety. Also, if you’re stuck out in the ocean because of an accident or failure, then that’s a long time to get where you need to go. At least with a broken down bus, you can get off and catch an Uber or wait for another bus.

[@Secretlyanothername]

There's a resurgence in hydrofoil ferries, driven by electric hydrofoil companies. They're less susceptible to rough water and a lot faster and have lower running costs, so could potentially be a future solution once the technology is ready in the next 10-15 years - about the time it would take to get a metro done if we started today.

[@rollingthunder9087]

Density may not the deal breaker as it is for other lines as peak patronage on a metro would be on summer weekends catering for tourists. Which is why it won't be built. The NIMBYs are strong and politically connected just as they were when the Eastern Suburbs line extension to Bondi Beach was nixed.

[@josephj6521]

@@rollingthunder9087 Sydney is sad. None of the beachside residents feel other people deserve to visit a beach, hence why they don’t want rail and the Bondi Beach extension was nixed. I say the government should build the rail lines and forget these idiotic nimbys.

[@dr94279]

I wouldve thought that while Metro probably wouldnt happen that a light rail from Manly to Mona Vale (or Avalon) would be good

[@jack2453]

Yes. I was surprised that Trainguy4 didn't explore some more hybrid/intermediate options.

[@NotJulius44]

just get china to build it 😂😭

[@tacitdionysus3220]

Rack Metro - Lausanne style - Northern Beaches people need to feel 'special'

[@joshporter5422]

The dedicated Freshwater infrastructure at both F1 wharfs inhibit the Emerald ferries from exchanging passengers quickly, being restricted to merely using a single gangway as apposed to both centre and rear. Instead of modifying the wharfs to somehow accomodate both classes of vessel, the government seeks to (atleast initially) replace the Freshwaters with smaller look-alikes that operate the same. People want quicker, more frequent journeys. F1 saw strong post-pandemic recovery because of the better service the Emeralds provided. As for buses, a recent news report stated that the B-line was at capacity at I believe 1500ppdph. By contrast the 333 (which only uses 3 door artics) can reach beyond 2000ppdph during summer peaks. Yet it suffers from even worse bus priority measures.

[@user-macquine]

Sometimes the 333 uses tri-axle 14.5 metre K310UBs (2108ST)

[@Secretlyanothername]

as a passenger the 333 is abysmal. Some of the worst bus experience in Australia

[@TrainGuy-b1w]

Personally i think all sydney BRT routes or the routes that end in X should be converted to B line to limit confusion and to standardise the bus network

[@thetrainguy4]

Most ‘express’ routes are only express for a portion of the route and run all stops elsewhere. There are only a few exceptions like the 160x, 500x, T80, 665 etc.

[@andrew1038]

It would be nice if you talked about how goods get to the shops? Only talking about people getting to the city from home. What about all the tradies that travel to the beaches for work..

[@thetrainguy4]

Goods to shops and tradies both require private transport. My ideas give higher order transport to Chatswood, north Sydney and manly which are all non-commute destinations in their own right, as well as the city. Increased feeder routes would enable easier access to Pittwater road for easier shopping etc.

[@jack2453]

Better public transport gets rid of the congestion and frees up road space for tradies and deliveries.

[@edwardbarnett6571]

The DD rigid bus is too high to go to Mascot however the Trailerbus with only 4.3 m general access can with the ability to take bikes and even if the batteries do not last 1,000 km the prime mover can be traded for a new one. With greater frequency it still would be cheaper and more reliable than rail.

[@thetrainguy4]

Holy moly not the trailerbus guy 😭😭

[@edwardbarnett6571]

@@thetrainguy4 yes mate I got banned for another week from my regular forum so I sent an email off to NHVR for an exemption for the driver seeing the front door if there is a disabled conductor as they want a job.

[@RodneyAvery-o2q]

@@thetrainguy4 Just block him.

[@edwardbarnett6571]

@@RodneyAvery-o2q Any reason mate.

[@kennylee8936]

Well...Neutral Bay and Dee Why are being slated for more high density...so a metro is inevitable at this stage.

[@josephj6521]

Neutral Bay? Isn’t it dense enough?

[@atholmullen]

I think that there would be considerable benefit to building a new 2-track heavy rail line from Woy Woy to Chatswood via Mona Vale, with stations at the Palm Beach ferry wharf and Mona Vale, possibly a station near the Northern Beaches Hospital, and an additional pair of platforms at Chatswood (eg underneath Orchard Rd). The Northern Beaches bus routes that run essentially empty in the counter-peak direction would then carry peak passengers to/from Mona Vale station, increasing bus utilisation by at least 40%. The additional pair of tracks would surface on the North Shore line south of where the Metro lines dive, and the North Shore Line would be 4 tracks from there to south of St Leonards. The additional tracks would dive back into tunnel for a straighter alignment, surfacing between Waverton and North Sydney. North Sydney would be re-configured such that platforms 1 and 2 would be for the new line, which would then use the eastern side of the harbour bridge to get to Wynyard platforms 1 and 2. New tunnels would extend the lines through to central, where a pair of underground platforms would be constructed under the dock platforms, alongside the Metro platforms. The tunnels would continue, splitting and surfacing to join the main lines west and south of Redfern. This would connect the northern parts of the Northern Beaches to the metro at Chatswood, slash travel times between the Central Coast and the city, and enable through running of interurban and regional services.

[@AlanDownunder]

Connect Bondi Junct to Woy Woy.

[@jack2453]

A Sydney Newcastle HSR would mean that the existing Central Coast train lines could become part of thus network.

[@Gary-vv5gt]

@@atholmullen the issue would be the depth required, yes I like that idea but it’s won’t work, since broken bay to put the tunnel would be like 10x deeper than harbour crossing and will need to be steep as hell and it’s ocean so it’s difficult. If is difficult with the spit then no chance with this idea.

[@antontsau]

The main problem is MONEY. NB LGA is 263000 residents without any prospectives to rise (no space there at all) so if train/metro line will cost another 15B (comparable to NW metro) - its $60K per resident, $150K per taxpayer, $500K per potential commuter. Ummmmm, a bit expensive. Road link, some tunnel from North Sydney under Mosman to the same Spit, looks much more attractive, but first of all - and whut, to where it goes? The same harbour bridge? Ok, theoretically it can be connected to new 2nd tunnel and go to Rozelle, but it does not help to improve traffic NB-City. And 2nd - Mosman residents will lay across such a plans all ways possible. Technically Middle Harbour can be crossed not under but over, by high bridge, on cliff level (similar to Bangor bypass just 800m long not 300m), nothing prevents it for road and rail traffic.

[@g1598]

residents of the Nth Beaches need to get over themselves and allow a metro or rail to be installed in the area - it is 100% a must just imagine the area 25-50years in the future it would be a joke to travel and they need to hurry up to get rid of the useless spit bridge, build a massive bridge like bangor by pass bridge or tunnel underneath and increase the land tax on the residents along the waterfront (bridge no tax / tunnel get taxed but keep a view)

[@utareangara5529]

theres NO space around chatswood for pirority. I live in the area. it can get so bad

[@thetrainguy4]

There is, just get rid of a bit of parking.

[@utareangara5529]

@ what street parking? Buses don’t go down Archer street. Only Anderson.

[@thetrainguy4]

Towards Chatswood on Archer could become a bus lane as could Anderson st too, the bike lanes there are useless and dangerous and the parking can be relegated to other streets. Also bus green wave at lights.

[@s.a.m.9837]

Brisbane "metro" hate teaser 😤

[@oufukubinta]

If the Northern Beaches deserve fancy buses then so does the inner-west

[@thetrainguy4]

The inner west has trams and trains though, that’s kinda the point.

[@hamishmacintyre4600]

Only one mode left. Heavy or light rail. That’s it get on with it now.

[@jonathancox2907]

Bring the trams back.that will solve all this.

[@Mcvalverte]

They don’t want tourists to cram up their beaches, it will never ever happen

[@michaelmizzi2827]

Instead of wasting millions n millions of taxpayers dollars building the Metro from City to Westmead,why wasn’t a Metro line built from Chatswood to the Northern beaches that would then loop around the peninsula and return to the city via Mosman,Neutral bay and North Sydney or the Harbour Tunnel to the City CBD?

[@josephj6521]

NIMBYs.

[@Leo-hv9mm]

A large and extensive monorail should be built above the main roads.

[@michaelmizzi2827]

No a monorail is ridiculous

[@RodneyAvery-o2q]

Have you forgotten what happened to the Darling Harbour monorail?

[@josephj6521]

@@RodneyAvery-o2qit didn’t go where people needed it to go to.

[@RodneyAvery-o2q]

@@josephj6521 Monorails haven't caught on much around the world.

[@Secretlyanothername]

They don't want to be associated with the riff raff, let them stay stuck up there

[@kennylee8936]

But not everyone is like that....and when I mean everyone...I mean the vast majority of people...the stuck up ones are a minority.

[@whophd]

“Political suicide”, or just realise there are 4 maybe 5 areas crying out for metro, louder than the Northern Beaches. JJ Bradfield tried - and this was someone who got things done. Just think about each NSW Government and put yourself in their shoes - where should the next 1,2 or 3 metros be built? It’s not in the Top 3 or Top 5 so the topic is a bit hopeless. Who is asking for metro here? And who is asking for metro elsewhere?

[@kevinleeinaustralia3248]

I think the Northern beaches area is still not populated enough to make the metro profitable, so currently a BRT system is still the best solution. I think we can do more to make current BLine faster: all-the-way dedicated bus lane to exclude all other vehicles, and a Brisbane Metro style electric bus instead of diesel bus to accelerate faster to increase the average speed. On the other hand, I totally agree with your idea to add more BLines to make the connection from train/metro station to the beaches better.

[@FKYUNimbys]

@kevinleeinaustralia3248 The Hills District has less people than the Northern Beaches...yet they got a metro. From the NB, lines can connect to the lower and upper North Shore. On top of that, many suburbs along proposed routes (Neutral Bay, Dee Why etc...) are being slated for high density. If anything...a metro prepares the NB for population increase...waiting to see what happens will only make it more difficult and expensive in the future.

[@whophd]

Don’t force to me make a video of how GOOD the B-Line is!! It’s never closed for maintenance and it always goes faster than other cars and buses, even the express ones. But I would totally convert the Spit Bridge into a huge cycleway with one lane each way for cars. Put the cars in a buried tunnel (GASP! SHOCK! Toll road!) and make car drivers pay for the most expensive type of regional travel (usually subsidised by taxes). About the only rail that MIGHT go down well around here is to reinstate the Manly tram to Narrabeen. The entire point of living here is to get a break from the city hustle. Think about how Narrabeen is as far north as Hornsby, and the peninsula goes up the same as Brooklyn. It’s far from Sydney, and that’s the point.

[@samuel2291]

"Train line means POOR ETHNICS" Kogdog 😂

[@8492946able]

Underground train line starting at Pymble to Mona Vale then through along the coast via Dee Why, Many, Mossman to North Sydney

[@daveduffy1755]

As the buses infrastructure and the limited service and accomadation for tram at the quay now the chances of redevelopment for a huge system destroyed is slim to nothing

[@jonathancox2907]

How would you know? Never out til they try.