The Smallest Bypass Ever!

[@Aedan-Silk]

31 min on a tiny map. Here. We. Go.

[@busshock]

If Matador had gotten bodkin and bracer as soon as he got to imp, his castles would have had equal range to the mangonels and thus be unbeatable.

[@joshmccraney4020]

was thinking this too

[@obesechicken13]

siege engineers turns that back right? 500/600 though.

[@IamTristanC]

the game was not lost because mangonels could outrange the castle, the game was lost because the trebs were not safe under the castle. +1 or +2 range to the castle would not be enough to save the trebs. siege rams could have finished off the castles if needed.

[@stanleykwan7759]

@@obesechicken13 SE is only available in imp

[@Zeldrake]

@@IamTristanC position treb behind castle, not in front of

[@Link1506]

El Matador hat two winning plays after clicking imp: either rush bracer for 7 range castles (outranging mangudai and same range as mangonels) or simply deploying his first treb behind the castle (he could even delete the archery range for a very safe spot). Sadly he did neither :(

[@mauer1]

or just dont go imp.

[@Link1506]

@@mauer1 It's hard to judge, if going imp was good or bad. In hindsight it didn't work out, but we don't know if staying castle would've been even worse. He could never contest the mangudai with mangonels and even huscarls wouldn't work well with monks and the castle being around. Maybe swarming with 20 huscarls would've been the play - we never know. But once he comitted to going imp, he had to stick with it. And that's where we saw, how he lost the game.

[@mauer1]

@@Link1506 he already had 70% or what on the map. he was already winning. the comeback was only made possible because of all the ressources wasted into imperial age. the initial investment gave the opponent time to get the army together, it would have stayed evenish if the treb push would have worked (he atleast would have won that side of the map) but because that didnt work aswell and he was starting to lose on the other side it wasnt even close in the end. sure it would have been hard to close out but it was definitly a better play to keep pressuring and atleast holding more of the map where you can have more and safer eco.

[@ariisee]

@@Link1506 1000 food and 800 gold is easily enough for 20 huskarls - and 20 huskarls would win quite easily on such a small map, even considering Castle and Mangonels. Monk would do nothing, making 20 into 19, and Mangudai would deal 1 damage per hit (get infantry armor and you're good). Just dodge Mangonels. At the point where Matador clicked to Imp, Ozone had 2 mangonels, at the finish of Imp, 4. But Matador had enough resources to make additional Mangonel, resulting in Mangonels being 3-3 (Ozone wouldn't get the last Mangonel in time, cuz Huskarls produce fast), and then just spam Huskarls. So yeah, Huskarls from two Castles were the play here.

[@milliondollarart]

or just buy 200 more stone and build 3rd castle on left, collect relics and ez win :D

[@mrv6554]

Such a great game! I think that it could be fun to try having building range tied to what age you are in. E.g. 50% range in Dark & Feudal, 70% in Castle, and 90% in Imp. That way making a HUGE investment into Imperial gives you better protection and enables you to somewhat protect your trebs.

[@andrewg3196]

Or the players could just get the techs that give range if they want range.

[@oliviaaaaaah1002]

I wonder if Onager is a sleeper upgrade for this game mode actually. Imp into onager instead of trebs lets you unironically deny eco for your opponent by cutting trees, gives you a huge advantage in mango duels, and increases building damage to boot.

[@justalonesoul5825]

The cost of the onager upgrade though. 800F 500G iirc, right after imping, you're not producing or upgrading another thing for a long time.

[@nafnaf0]

Yeah that is what I am thinking, Onager OP, but it is expensive to get

[@oliviaaaaaah1002]

​@@justalonesoul5825 That's true. It's practically the cost of Imp all over again, which could lose you the game just in that moment. but it does start to look a lot more affordable when you compare it to the price of making, say, two trebs (-400w/400g) and a half dozen huskarls (-336f/168g) instead in order to (fail to) stop the mangudai/mangonel push.

[@treepotato9273]

one mango beating a castle is an interesting balance change

[@aralornwolf3140]

I didn't like it... and I said so in the first video. _All_ ranged units also need their range to be reduced.

[@bable6314]

@@aralornwolf3140 Or, just... don't do that at all. Nothing should have its range reduced. The point of a tiny map is that it's tiny. If range is reduced, it's no longer tiny.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@bable6314, It's still a tiny map. The problem with towers is, they had such a large range and nothing in Feudal could counter them, except other towers... which made the games become "who can build and repair their towers fastest wins"... which is _boring_ to watch. With all ranged units and buildings have a reduced range, it makes other tactics viable once more... instead of ranged units being the best... as they can out range the buildings. As seen by the magonels pushing El Matador off wood.

[@hebronferrier9101]

They should also make the buildings smaller for the tiny maps. Maybe half as big as well

[@mauer1]

@@hebronferrier9101 just make everything half the size so the only effective change is that its harder to click things.

[@freshrockpapa-e7799]

Archers have more range than towers, why not have them out and focusing on the repairing villagers in a tower war?

[@Maxidonis208]

2 Reasons. 1. It would be very awkward trying to hit the villagers repairing a tower without getting hit yourself when that tower has only 0.5 range less than you, especially in a chokepoint where you can't really get the the side of or behind the tower. And 2. The more important reason is that t90 was mistaken, towers have 8 range normally (as opposed to the 7 he thought they did), so half that is 4, the same as archers. You'd need crossbows to outrange a tower that has the same blacksmith upgrades as you. And even then, it would still be difficult to stay outside tower range and vils behind a tower with only 1 less range than you, though I'm not sure it'd be impossible.

[@micahbonewell5994]

I wonder if instead of selling stone and building the second castle to go imp if el Matador should have sold all his stone and bought food to build say 20 huscarls. With nowhere to run I feel like the Manguadai would have gotten chewed up.

[@asdt560]

All he had to do was eject the treb behind the castle instead of in front. It ranged most of the map either way.

[@mauer1]

just anything than imp. onagers have the same effective range on these settings so they are simply better than trebs.

[@RobotShield]

Yeah, imp res on huskarls and armour techs probably better play

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Or just research Bodkin Arrow and Bracer. Then his castles could've nullified the mangos.

[@ScottyShaw]

As an enthusiastic Mongols player, your suggestion is my nightmare, so I agree with you. I kept thinking that cancelling Imperial Age, even with one second left, to build a small army of Huskarls would have won the game for Matador.

[@mauer1]

you dont need trebs when onagers are basically mobile trebs on this size.

[@jakegingrich7214]

It would almost make sense to limit range on everything

[@Anony-Mous]

I absolutely *LOVE* the reduced building range. All small map games are fun, but seeing players forced to actually make army on these small maps is so much more exciting. Why did Ozone win? Because he built more army!

[@KalaAltheaBalik]

Is it possible to limit number of towers that could be built? Let say, you could have only three or two towers on the map.

[@sparkieT88]

Three is enough to control a map like this, and they would just delete the back one and move it forward as needed. The shorter range I think is a good option

[@Rath_9]

Might need to rebuff castle range to at least range mangonels

[@epicseadragon1692]

I guess imp-treb was a big investment for not much. Perhaps Castles and Towers should have their range increased in Imp (to 6 instead of 4)??? Just an idea...

[@TheAmericanPrometheus]

ozone's excellent mangonel micro really helped him pull through when it looked like matador was about to take the GG about 18 minutes in.

[@naphackDT]

I feel like castles should have full range (or the range of towers and castles be staggered by age). Should be 4 range in feudal, 6 in castle, 8 in imp.

[@justalonesoul5825]

Incremental base range by age for all buildings does sound like a sweet compromise indeed.

[@mikelangelo-m4m]

I think this game shows how perfectly balanced is the game and how a small change like the tower and castle ranges has snowball effects. With this mod, the onager turns out to be the most op unit in the game, being able to shoot down towers and castles. Probably the modders didn't expect this to happen, but on the other hand,this forces you to protect your buildings with army, and from my point of view, this is more entertaining than the classic tower wars in small maps, where repairing is the most important task 😂

[@mauer1]

I think so too, giving cadtles their range back over ages would mean that imp is an easy game ender without much thought. While having to still fight it out with skill intensive units sounds more fun especially for the viewer

[@obesechicken13]

There's also no room for farms so no food this map.

[@MrSchemele]

Coming back home from sports and now there is a new vid for my evening. Gotta love it! Thanks for the content!

[@MaksymCzech]

El Matador should have positioned the trebs behind castles to pick off mangonels

[@MauricioOsuna-et8et]

Hey T90, would it be possible to make a NIGHT map? All units and buildings have their line of sight greatly reduced!

[@WigglyWings]

Half range tower is good, not a fan of half range castles though.

[@justalonesoul5825]

Yes. Maybe give back some range to all buildings in castle age than some more in imp.

[@micahbonewell5994]

Disagree getting a single castle up on a map that small is way too strong for normal range

[@arandomwalk]

This series was brilliant from start to end

[@lewisferguson7579]

Millwall mentioned rahhhhhh

[@FuLou1988]

I get the tower nerf … but castle range makes them useless this was sad and not fair tbh…. Matador deserved the win. Maybee just reduce castel range by 30% or something

[@blarch2]

T90, there is still time for you to grow a fu manchu and have a V-shaped soul-patch before Hidden Cup V. Would anyone else like to see that happen? Turn it up another notch, bro. Edit: Think of the squinty-eyes intros you could make. You won't regret if you do, but if you don't, 5 years from now you'll be like "I shoulda said fuck it and grew a fu manchu with a V-shaped soul-patch for Hidden Cup V."

[@jacobwood3326]

Awesome game to watch! I know this game has no bearing on how the map will play out in HC V, but somehow I’m even more excited to see the map in the main event now.

[@tomholman3216]

Checking in for my once a year game, keep it up my man ❤

[@stephencaudle1766]

I come back to AOE and the vills have BOXING GLOVES??? Hehhhhh???

[@patricklapierre4760]

Its a mod😅

[@coledansie9428]

Git with the program.

[@thoges5040]

Castle should at least match mangos in range.

[@erikeklund9010]

What time do you stream hidden cup?

[@katlynumba514]

Best small vid of all

[@ramonafrombarcelona]

8:22 bottom right. pathing at its finest

[@ndawg87]

Is there a way to get these maps to play against the computer with? I love these matches and would love to play them.

[@BalgaBear]

I love this community so much

[@Royorg-qf5jq]

Priests in a corner with knights, camels or elefants running around

[@MateusVIII]

I think if Matador had built his second castle in a more aggressive place when he had control of the left side of the map he could have used it to destroy the siege workshop and mangonels from Ozone and secured his gold. Also he would have a much better space for trebs behind the castle.

[@nafnaf0]

Yeah I think he should have gone further in on the left side, it looked fairly safe, but he might not have been able to see that.

[@MateusVIII]

@@nafnaf0 he did see it (I am thinking of the places close to where he built houses, next to Ozone's siege workshop), but maybe he was affraid of getting the castle denied

[@JohnSmith-wx5bh]

towers should be half range with castle with full range

[@jekanyika]

23:34

[@FullOilBarrel]

Sorry but this was just stupid with ranged units and siege not also having their range reduced

[@gordistador]

Make all ranged units have shorter range. Not just buildings.

[@waylandertheslayer3259]

Great game! Love this series

[@mrtomyp92]

This is much more fun than a tower war with normal range

[@raynmanshorts9275]

If this was in the "science and medicine" category, it would be a far less pleasant video.

[@johnjarvinen]

Instead of nerfing building range, just disable towers all together. That way we might actually get feudal battles

[@TheRagingHardon]

I dont like the reduced range change

[@SyntheticNight]

Can someone tell me how to properly install these maps? If i install them, it is not shown in the map list for custom scenario.....btw: awesome channel t90 :D

[@bf1701]

Why did CaptureAge lag at the start of the match? Clearly, because the map is too large.

[@chiefmagua7160]

that range change ruined small map fun

[@Snrasha]

I believe, just go full huskarl and not go imp will have better in this case. But true, i will forget than the trebuchet is useless without the castle range.

[@xentis1501]

What size is tiny? like 20x20?

[@arteropkc0nner897]

Awesome video as always T90.

[@NalinKanwar]

We need Hidden Cup Bypass Edition :D! let's goooo

[@keeshibird]

Just needed Bracer

[@RAMMY237]

Its hilarious to have castles that cant protect even from mangonels X)

[@moz7491]

I think that was the best small map game, yet! Stinks about trebs though...

[@AlexMathiesen]

Anyone else want to see Obsidian Arrow archers in a smallest map?

[@meinstein9084]

Castle just need -25% range imo, cause its not as easy as tower to build in small maps

[@FreakOSRS]

MILLWALL FC!@@@@

[@jazzgeary2339]

Highlighting the fortifications they gave both play. *Imidiately deletes them* - Both players

[@lepython]

That was a really fun game to watch!

[@indraallian6371]

Ozone also forgot about Bodkin.😎

[@SanilSinghTomar]

I hate the building range nerf, it kills important aspect of the tiny maps game. Its not really that fun as the older tiny maps where game was played with actual settings.

[@cleanerben9636]

play Lithuanians, fast castle, hill fort TC's everywhere

[@danieldonaldson2806]

Whoops thought this was the heart surgery for honey boo boo.

[@jekanyika]

Millwall FC are a bunch of hooligans

[@GarfieldRex]

Holy Moly, what a comeback!!

[@michaelhannell4083]

Set it up so players cant delete the structures they agree given at the start of game

[@Patashu]

That was AMAZING

[@Psicolauta]

amazing game. i cant believe that ozone won this hahah

[@mathieucozien5736]

Ozone killed more mangudai than El Matador did 11

[@racernatorde5318]

Gotta be honest, I am dissappointed by Matador. Feels like he didn't spend much time thinking about the range changes at all. The point of trebuchets is to be able to outrange castles and cause damage to them without taking damage in return. Due to the range change, a normal mangonal already does that. Whilst beeing cheaper (No need for imp!), moveable and much more lethal against units. Huskarls were also a waste. On these small maps with all these chokepoints, anything with range will be great. Melee units are useless here. I also think that stonewalls are heavily underutilized so far. Map control is massive, but it also prevents units from walking into your eco - especially archers

[@Mosil0]

Huskarls would have been good in larger numbers. I think he could have won by massing them instead of going imp

[@corereject5796]

mangos are just op

[@botondbenyovszky6621]

I don't think decreasing the building ranges were a good decision. All ranges should've been decreased by the same flat amount, like by 2.

[@GeriatricBullFrog]

I don't know if I like reduced ranges

[@arcan762]

should have spent the imp on huskarls

[@indijoe]

All range should decrease equally

[@rooftopmentality1996]

WANT TO SEE MORE TINY CLOSED MAPS

[@mateocolegial5571]

*T90!!!*

[@GM_Lemmy]

That was such a great game! I think archers out-ranging towers is actually good in this map. It makes archers and therefore anti-archer units more useful... Onagers might be a tad too strong, since they're basically mobile trebuchets... But I have no idea how to balance that without making things a completely different game, unless you reduce the range of everything... But Io'm not sure how that would turn out...

[@hugogaratecallejo9817]

Good game!

[@Koettnylle]

good game

[@vojtechvanek1686]

Matador didn't buy single upgrade for last 10-15 minutes of game and didn't secure his forward resources

[@maggusmaggistar7534]

I love it

[@jamiethomson7780]

Nerfing castles is stupid. Dumb settings. Castles could even be killed by mangonels.

[@clash44]

I can't even dream of getting to 1k elo

[@NightBlado]

Naah, these watered down Smallest Maps are not for me. The building range nerf made these bad =(

[@TheObservationTower]

Seen some Good strats so far, but its interesting that no one has gone for cumans to go for an early siege play. Feel like 1 ram could be a power play while also offering a second TC for arrow coverage and ECO growth.

[@dliessmgg]

I feel like these towers are just right for the tiny maps. Strong but not overwhelmingly so.

[@quattro_B7]

Epic =D

[@markusdegenhardt8678]

Onagers would have been the play. They counter mangonels and castle age mangudai and most importantly they can cut the enemys trees. El matatdor coud have starved ozone out.

[@gameseaters8317]

More useful castles of century, i didn't like it.

[@adrianauskasachstan1391]

after min 15 or so el matador was just trolling. with 1400 stone in the bank he could just castle push from the north side

[@GarethRiffStevens]

Millwall fc are terrible, yh in the championship, somehow...

[@benneem]

Matador wasted so many resources on towers and castles that could pretty much never do anything. Hard to adjust your mind to the settings in the heat of the momemt I guess.

[@geisterfahreruberholer2171]

A German named El matador playing the Goths. I am confused

[@xavierinthetube]

First!

[@VegeeMcSalad]

Don't Goths get crenellations?

[@justalonesoul5825]

Teutons

[@SimonFallheart]

half normal range ruined tiny maps for me. dislike, move away.

[@KilledWithStyle]

Post #33 asking for a youpudding white phosphoru duel on tiniest maps

[@ParkerRoan-lz7bu]

Please go back to Low Legends again :(