Is MLS actually better than the J-League?

[@kevinpolette4868]

Maqwell did a vlog of his time in Japan going to soccer matches there along with his trip…if anyone is interested. I thought it was a really entertaining and fun vlog!

[@tetsuotoyama8238]

Have enjoyed the Tom-san and Dan-san episodes. As an American of Japanese descent and watch the JNTs and J league as well as USNTs and MLS. MLS not anymore due to the Open cup debacle (ton of other stuff built up over time) and it’s on Apple so just can’t justify it since I’m not watching every week. But anyway in terms of just quality, it’s tough. I’d say MLS has probably surpassed the J League thanks to the influx of South American and European talent. They’ve done a great job of showing that they can be a pathway for young South American players to Europe. Also done a decent job (plenty of misses tho) of getting those good euro players from leagues a tier or 2 below the top 5. I think there’s a bit more diversity in styles, systems, and generally just more of a variety of the types of players in MLS. I believe this raises the general level of quality. It’s very similar though overall from top to bottom. To one of Dan’s points though, the competitiveness and “meaningfulness” of the matches feels significantly higher in Japan due to relegation, balanced schedule, + ACL and title races are very often hotly contested by 2-4 teams until final weeks of the season. MLS suffers from that summer malaise and grind. And once the season gets to ~60% complete, plenty of matches without any significance pop up once teams start falling away from the playoff race. I have enjoyed watching the j league far more in terms of entertainment and intensity. More games just feel “bigger” which is subjective of course and can’t really measure that. Anyway, just a quick thought I wanted to put out there since I’m in that tiny demographic of fans and actually watch both countries national teams and their leagues. Tangent, I will now become an avid watcher of USL thanks to their broadcast deal and MLS doing MLS things to the open cup.

[@NoCoastRaps]

This was such an excellent, and fair breakdown - really appreciate your comment.

[@davidday2373]

MLS drew 13 MILLION attendance. 10.9 million - Regular Season 1.33 million - Leagues Cup 650,000 - MLS Cup Playoffs

[@dcapitan7]

The J-League has generally figured it out. It effectively has pro-rel, a league schedule where you play every team in your division home and away without playoffs, local academies resulting in a nationwide system that helps develop talent alongside its high school and colleges. It values participation in its national cup (Emperor's Cup) and it has a network that is good at identifying players with talent within its borders. Leagues in the 🇺🇸 and 🇨🇦 on the other hand...especially MLS...either doesn't have these characteristics or is lacking in many of these areas. The end result is that 🇯🇵 is generally producing better, more technically gifted players than the 🇺🇸 or 🇨🇦. 🇯🇵 ⚽️ infrastructure isn't flawless, but it's way ahead of 🇺🇸 or 🇨🇦. It's a major reason why I believe the Blue Samurai will be the first team from outside UEFA and CONMEBOL to win a WC.

[@yas7min]

I moved from Japan to US. I follow FC Tokyo and LA Galaxy. MLS caught up with J-league in terms of fan passion level. I see more attendance at regular MLS games than J-league games now.

[@bryanadanielson4355]

very surprised by some of the answers from the J reporter

[@reddEmpire]

I find it interesting how Dan's only example of an MLS team is Inter Miami. There are so many teams in MLS that fill their stadiums every week and they don't have Messi. They don't have that big signing. While Dan is very knowledgable about the J League it did seem to me that the extent of his knowledge of the MLS started and ended with Messi's Inter Miami. In terms of competitiveness he made is sound as if once you win MLS Cup it's over or as if it's the same teams fighting for MLS cup every year. We also have a Champion's League over here as well. Very insightful info about the J League but to me it sounded as if Dan may not know too much about the MLS. I'm an LAFC fan and I have seen some J league matches on KZbin from time to time. Very interesting topic.

[@Coolwhip899]

Just sounds like a couple of MLS haters who want their view of the "right" way to do things in soccer be correct

[@ExileOnDaytonStreet]

@@Coolwhip899 I don't want to hate on pro/rel (it has plusses and minuses, just like the franchise/closed system does), but the discourse from pro/rel advocates (especially the #ProRelforUSA people on twitter) is basically just a bunch of bad faith assumptions that pro/rel is somehow this magic cure-all.

[@oyaml1211]

​@@Coolwhip899basically why this comparasion was made 😂 You hit the nail on the head!

[@The_InfantMalePollockFrancis]

Promotion and Relegation won't work in the US. Maybe they could start a second league, which could help. The US is a massive country and has a lot of people that do in fact *play* football (or soccer). I'm sure if there were better avenues into professional soccer we would see more local talent rise over time. I would want the US to go with THEIR own names including soccer. I think that's something they should embrace as it is an interesting bit of linguistic history. I like teams like Sounders, or Columbus Crew SC. They shouldn't be using stupid names like Real or United or any of that. They should use terms like Soccer Club or Soccer Team or even Soccer Franchise. They should embrace their silly mascot names and respect the customs of Association Football but also put their own identity on it. I think it'd be easy to start up a second tier especially for sourcing amateur and semi pro players as well as prospects from the Americas. Maybe even find a way to integrate NCAA teams into a third or second tier that aren't promotable, whereas local clubs could. But considering how much money was dumped into starting the MLS, they can't really short investors like that. I would say a massive rebranding, and a creation of a minor league, with a road map to pro/rel.

[@likiman1996]

As someone who watches both leagues, MLS quality has recently surpassed the J-League and the gap will only continue to grow in the future.

[@noting7678]

Can’t you say the same for their youth development? USA U23 just won against Japan U23 not too long ago.

[@jayh3283]

Based on what? MLS teams won CONCACAF once in 20 years, have a pathetic global performance record, and only have global attention based on the aging world class former Euro League players they sign like Messi. J1 League actually proven themselves in AFC and globally.

[@AmanKumar-gq2qy]

😂

[@Breno775]

@@jayh3283afc has less talent than concacaf. Mexico has top 10 league and MLS is competing with them now. Leagues Cup is a display of that. This year MLS has also signed an abundance of young talent. This MLS season is going to be a good one.

[@Breno775]

@tacticalmanagertv should have gotten an MLS rep go against this guy. He did a horrible job proving what MLS has going on.

[@k.p.8955]

Hi Mr. Manager. I do watch MLS and support NYCFC (enough with the baseball stadium jokes but anyway you know that all changes around 2027). I feel like MLS has a long way to go. I'm surprised to hear Japan expanded to 60 clubs but I honestly think the US could definitely get to that. We need to really stop trying to recreate the wheel here. Promotion and relegation does work and we don't have to promote as many as in UK or Germany. Maybe we promote/relegate 1 club or 2 clubs. Idk what the best way at this point. The main thing I think is youth development. I think that's key for us.

[@michaelpeli2429]

Pro/rel is not likely to happen unless MLS gets to 36-40 teams. I would like to see MLS have guest promotion USL teams, with the top 2-3 invited with a USL playoff to get in. The every year maybe a playoff between the previous years teams and the new top teams to see who gets to stay in. If not that, then at least a new secondary continental cup for USL, CPL and the other smaller countries. Similar to the Europa League.

[@k.p.8955]

@@michaelpeli2429 yes to the secondary cup. That's definitely something I've been thinking about and think would be great.

[@kevinwilkins7851]

Pro/Rel should happen but Don Garbage is on the USSF board and Cindy Parlow-Cone would never implement relegation---MLS answers to the USSF but the latter is a very weak organization with zero balls.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

We don’t need to recreate the wheel. We have a great system of sports leagues that works great in the US. We’re not gonna change it. This isn’t up for discussion. Pro/rel discussions are a giant waste of time. It’s not happening in the US and we can stop fantasizing about it. Our system is better. Oh and we do have more than 60 teams. MLS and MLS-NP alone are almost 60. Add in USL and it’s well above that.

[@stevenygabbyperez695]

The average MLS team has a valuation of $678. How the hell do you convince the owners they would be better off with pro-rel? The top 3 richest leagues in the world are NFL, NBA, & MLB despite soccer being the most popular sport in the world. The American system is proven. If MLS can get to the revenues of MLB (baseball) it would be the richest soccer league in the world. Pro/rel can't give you that. The top 5 soccer leagues in the world have pro rel and you have to combine them all to have more revenues than the NFL alone. 😂😂😂

[@mrmr5580]

The J-league did have the head start but as someone who watches both leagues (time difference permitting) as a league MLS has more or less caught up now in terms of quality, they're both incredibly similar in that regard, both leagues have a lot of potential

[@davidday2373]

MLS Parity, 8 Champs over 10 yrs 2023: Columbus 2022: LAFC 2021: NYCFC 2020: Columbus 2019: Seattle 2018: Atlanta 2017: Toronto 2016: Seattle 2015: Portland 2014: Galaxy

[@mamelu711]

If im not mistaken I remember reading a report saying the Premier League has surpassed Liga Mx in the US in viewership

[@davidday2373]

Yes, however, I think this year some LigaMX games are now behind a pay wall. Idk for sure.

[@LuisBlancoAustin]

Hey Tact, I don't know how to compare them because I have never watched the J-League. But anyway, you should check out the performace of 18 year old Gerardo Valenzuela from FC Cincy against Cavalier. That kid has excellent techinical skills.

[@dixoncider8372]

It's me, I watch the J League because I am a sicko. I root for Vissel Kobe and have been since 2018, so I am not a bandwagoner. Whether you agree or disagree on which league is better, one thing for sure that is true is that J League screen is miles better than MLS screen... and much cheaper too

[@roburb73]

Admittedly, I only recently heard anyone talk about the J-League and that was because they were talking about Yohei and where he came from. I'm an RSL Season Ticket Holder, so RSLTID!!

[@kelvinloyola6070]

I spoke to two execs of the J League and they are moving towards a goal of a Div 1-2-3 pyramid at a budget. They want to create clubs like Germany, England, Argentina. So attendance is lower because a city the size of Austin may have 3/4 clubs. So J League is more organic, and smaller. MLS is a system that wants to be the best league in the world so they spend more and have more punch... J League is at a slower pace, and still has the goal to help the Japanese player. MLS I see moving towards a Premier League model. Where they want to be the best they can, without such an investment in the American player. The J League as a whole is shooting towards a goal. So none is better. MLS and J league are on par with each other but one is trying to grow faster while the other at its own pace.

[@calc1657]

MLS spends more and more because the revenue grows and because team valuations grow. The average MLS team valuation was $37 million in 2008. In 2022, the average value was $680 million. The MLS model is simply the American professional team sports model.

[@calc1657]

The salary difference is too significant. It's like with MLS and LigaMx. 15-20 years ago, LigaMx teams would send their reserves and youths to play away to MLS sides, which would usually result in a draw or close loss. Then at home, their regulars would blow away the MLS teams. The salary difference between the leagues was just too high. Now, average MLS salaries are slightly higher than those of LigaMx. MLS teams do vastly better in competition against LigaMx teams. Higher salaries allow for the recruitment of superior talent. And structure of MLS payrolls meant higher than normal proportion of team payroll is concentrated in the starting XIs. The this makes the starting XIs even stronger than the average salaries would indicate.

[@abrahamhinojosa6286]

ligaMX is still slightly better but both leagues are really close on avg

[@giglobro09]

Urawa Red diamonds won the Asian champions league. The J league is an open system. Don't know about the quality of the league but I like the system of the league. Plus the JFL is goal is to have 100 clubs. Meanwhile MLS is trying to destroy the open cup and cripple lower league cup leagues.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

US has more than 100 clubs already now. We’ve already surpassed Japan’s goal. You can like pro/rel if you want but it hampers investment in the top flight (that’s why it gets suspended in crisis like in Argentina and Mexico)

[@-Kenji]

@@kalmenbarkin5708 PROFESSIONAL Clubs. Japan has far more than 100 clubs, the JFA want 100 fully professional clubs in the top 5 divisions.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@-Kenji the US has more than 100 pro clubs in the top 5 divisions. 26 MLS (not counting Canadians) 24 USL-C 12 USL 1 9 NISA 27 MLS-NP (not counting Canadians) 98 in the top 3 levels on the pyramid alone. We already have 98 in the top **3** divisions - never mind top 5 (which would include USL-2 and UPSL) We’ll cross 100 in the top 3 divisions in the next 1-2 years (MLS USL-C USL-1 and MLS-NP all have expansion teams lined up) Obviously we have some major advantages (bigger richer country with more young people) but we have absolutely outgrown the Japanese in just about every measurable metric

[@716_ハディくん]

​@@kalmenbarkin5708perform at world cup first then brag all you want american is bigger like you said, you are supposed to be good everything right ? right know you barely mean anything + your continent are 2nd weakest after oceania which irrelevant

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@716_ハディくん US has gone further than Japan at World Cup too. Not that that defines a good league - Argentina’s league is garbage and they just won the WC. France has been the most successful European team in recent years but is the worst of the big 5. But I get why you’d have to change the topic - it’s not like staying on topic (MLS vs J-league) will end well for you

[@jmillerxi]

I watch both leagues. I watch J league less because of the time zone difference, but I do enjoy the level of play. I support Orlando City in MLS and the Yokohama F.Marinos in the J League

[@vargaslc2]

MLS is at Best 5th in the US, I might even put college football ahead of MLS.. NHL had a revenue of 6.1 billion last year, way ahead of MLS, that's a little less than the EPL!

[@davidday2373]

Might? College Football is ahead of the NHL. MLS is the "7th Tier" sport/league* in the U.S sports "pyramid"... even behind College Basketball.

[@davidday2373]

MLS builing relationships - LAFC partnered with BAYERN to create "Red&Gold Football" to find and develop players, they already own majority stakes in 3 Clubs in Europe and South America.

[@davidday2373]

FC Dallas just partnered with BENFICA, signed their biggest transfer ever, Petar Musa.

[@johnellington7970]

Follow both leagues but can't watch J league much because it's late and they only show a couple of games on KZbin each week. My teams are FC Tokyo and Portland Timbers for the respective leagues.

[@ep330]

Where do liga Mx and MLS rank in of all Americas. I know Brazil is first and Argentina is second but who is the third best league in all of Americas?

[@mic_gen]

I newer viewer but I watch the J league and MLS I'm from the bay so I was a SJ Earthquakes fan but John Fisher the owner doesn't deserve the bay's support, so now I'm following Austin FC When it comes to the J league I support FC Tokyo

[@anlerden4851]

I do not know anything about J. League but I love MSL more than J League because I'm Pro- USA Fan and LA galaxy Fan.

[@Arshi69]

🍪here is a cookie for you and 5 people that like the comment

[@hugomyron8888]

Us has 4.2 million player with 83 million fans has big potential

[@noting7678]

I don’t even know if Japan has a better youth development, let alone a better league.

[@-Kenji]

I've watched top level youth football from both countries, and I do think Japan is slightly stronger at that level, but not by that much.

[@Arshi69]

And what is your proof? Which league has more players in Europe? The clear answer is Japanese league

[@oliverallen2565]

Brainless

[@eddygee694]

As someone that use to follow the J-League extensively in the mid 2000s through the then weekly FOX Soccer Channel Gambare! J-League Highlights show. I can say the J-League used to better a overall superior League. Full of lots of attacking players like Hulk and lots of up and coming Brazilians. Most notably Gamba Osaka thhumping the best MLS team Houston Dynamo in 2005 PPC Final. However the J-League then fell off and stagnated where as MLS just had a higher arc growth period its still in. Big players more attractive style higher quality as a result. The two leagues only really meet when Japanese teams go on US Tour or invited to tour as part of MLS pre season. MLS teams largely winning those matches.

[@matiasfraire437]

Wdym Vissel Kobe was far better than Inter Miami in their recent friendly

[@eddygee694]

@matiasfraire437 They didn't win did they? NOPE. Vessel Kobe also got beat on prior tours the past few years against MLS sides so that logic is flawed

[@-Kenji]

@@eddygee694 Actually they did win 4-3 on penalties, and were far better throughout the match.

[@eddygee694]

@@-Kenji read the rest of what I said about that flawed logic. Vissel Kobe/J league teams went on tour against other MLS sides and J League has mainly loss with J-League teams getting largely solidly beaten. You really want to use that logic. "They looked so much better" but still only one in penalties 4-3. What about the other games.

[@jasonramirez2459]

This video made me want to go watch a JLeague game live. I’ve seen videos online where their game vibes are electric. Heck, their high school finals look epic

[@fredymendez855]

I have not even started the video but MLS simply cant be better since most of the players playing in the national team have never played for an MLS team. The Japanese players use its league as a springboard to play abroad and so the J league is vital. Not to mention the Japanese have progressed in the world cup becoming a dangerous team whilst the USA have missed a world cup in 2018 and the last world cup squad had allote of players who have never played in the MLS

[@michaelpeli2429]

PRO/REL is not the end all of what makes a "good" or "competitive" league. Lets face it, most leagues have terrible teams at the bottom of their leagues, so it makes it more interesting for those teams. But to tell me if MLS didn't have NFL payrolls all between 200-230 million each, the MLS would not be consider "competitive" or a "real league" seems absurd. The difference is that N. Amer. Sports leagues have high min floors, its just that the MLS is artificially keeping a low ceiling to appease the cheap owners. If mls wants to really be the 4th biggest N.Am. sports league have at least the same salary cap as the NHL of 89 mllion, with a min payroll. If MLS had an 89 mil cap with 2-3 dps, that could be a really good and unique league to draw interest. The fact that they are now tuning down good players that want to come to the league is ridiculous.

[@inelhuayocan_aci]

The butt-hurt is real in the MLS homers. You guys are a funny bunch.

[@topherjenks9869]

I've only started watching the J League in past few years. Feel like the J League has a slight edge on the MLS.

[@bryanadanielson4355]

So cool for the Druish reporter championing the mixing of ethnicity

[@DominicanStud101]

I grew up in NYC and follow the New York Red Bulls. Now I live in Japan and follow Hokkaido Consadole Sapporo.

[@chrispnuts4813]

NYC is blue lil bro

[@Kbandz313]

I try to watch the J League when i can especially Tokyo Verdy but Milan/Detroit City comes first

[@kevinwilkins7851]

MLS is ranked from 29th-31st by metrics from ESPN and World Soccer. Japan has a better NT than the USMNT so will leave it at that.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

Argentina has a better NT than England doesn’t mean Premiera division is better than EPL. World football rankings also put MLS significantly ahead of J1

[@human0_0skull]

51:00 : Trying to find fans abroad won't work in the long term. People would rather watch the Premier League or the C1 than their own domestic league, so imagine MLS... Instead, US Soccer should make the game more enjoyable and "watchable" for Americans by listening to most people's objections to soccer. Europeans are used to some matches being boring and of poor quality; this won't make them forget how extraordinary the sport can be. For them, it's like baseball - note that they have absolutely no interest in MLB for similar reasons to soccer for americans. On the other hand, an average American whose brain is wired by fast-paced action and regular breaks from (growing) watching the NFL, NBA and NHL won't be able to focus and hold out for 45 minutes with a 5-10 minute build-up play. Add to that the diving, bad announcers, weird chants and instead of finding new fans, you're making them hate the game even more (especially those watching for the first time). Then perhaps by introducing rules that make the game more offensive, MLS could see itself competing for a major sport spot : - intense 15-minute quarters with a 2-minute break; - time limit for players staying within their own box, except for set-pieces; - a player may be substituted twice (for rest); - fewer matches in the season; - time-of-possession limit; - 3-minute suspension for players who flop and fake injuries; - get the audience more involved by introducing mini-games during breaks, with prizes at stake, such as the crossbar challenge, juggling challenge, darts football, first touch challenge, teqball challenge, etc. Saint Louis City (last year) and Austin (two years ago) are very interesting case studies for MLS teams looking to develop their fan base, as their home games used to be full and exciting for the most part, with a totally attacking team style of play.

[@almostnorris623]

You had your point made at the starting paragraph, but then you threw the kitchen sink right back again at us the fans who are watching it . You generalised the whole fan base with a single broom. I love listening to sports F.M. radio shows on all level sports. College level or semi - pro post games and interactive radio post show game interview or reviews on the air, is what I'm used to from way bsck. Fans who got to drive home too listened too on the air when discussions about the games that arose from these games through the late evening till 11pm or past bed time. When I moved to a town I didn't get the same vibes. The old timers here were the worst the sports culture was abysmal. Off topic, ill be brief, I'm enjoying West Ham take on Everton as of know but via cable, just to give an example. I'm a Manchester United fan but I enjoyed West Ham and Everton for example. Every team in the Premiership each have their own style it seems. Each and every sport here in the US too included. Being a levid "sports" fan too for instance, i witnessed the New England power house end NewYork Yankees potential Championship series when Red Sox came from behind to thrash their nemesis " Evil Empire" to win it all. New England did not end it just there, they went ahead after the Red Sox dark horse fete. The Basketball Celtic team had the best run and win the NBA championship, another dark horse, the Boston Bruins held their own and ended up holding up high the Stanley Cup. The list goes on and on plus on the flip side, the East again or NCAA Huskies Colloge kids, they had both Men and Women in New England also back to back winners dominating as well. MLS New England Revolution unfortunately did not get Rooney quicker etc earlier and that was too SUS, and I SMH. My point is, it depends on how well the sports atmosphere or vibes on your kneck of the woods are . Just try and compare the two nations. See how far the premiership camera crew's and commentators cordinate together with Crisp, HD, bells and whistled technogy on the pitch and coaches corner. Our field if vision are not the same here see how they seem to know where to zoom in and out. Our crew are following each volley/ horse racing like it's a soft ball at all cap games.

[@almostnorris623]

Lombardy! 😅. Brady bunch I forgot.

[@human0_0skull]

@@almostnorris623 I understand what you mean, but you have to admit that most viewers aren't really interested in MLS post-game shows, provided they didn't give up during the game because they were bored. Sure, there are sports enthusiasts like you, but the number of MLS viewers on ESPN, NBC Sports and Fox before Apple Tv was catatrosphic. How can you be sustainable and grow if NCAA games have been beating your playoffs in viewership for decades?

[@almostnorris623]

NCAA won't go that route by internet subscriptions further more NCAA sports franchises have a history longer than we mostly think, especially if you consider how bad some colleges were before joining NCAA. That goes back even further. One player i read recently said that he would rather stay in college and graduate with cash money bigger than the G league or NBA rookie 🤔 .

[@bentinbama1]

JL is a much better league overall. Mls just has the big name players.

[@amsiizluerta1837]

June 12th, the invasion of Brasileiros in Orlando :) see you there

[@JJ-nu8qi]

These leagues are all very similar. Any players who are top level go play somewhere better.

[@Rationis88]

Nycfc/ Tokyo verdy

[@franklinperez9904]

👍👍

[@MLSMoves]

MLS is better but I think it’s very close. The J League is more technical.

[@BALOGUN2026]

W video

[@cdious6]

ATL

[@eye_straindigital]

I’d say MLS in on par with the English championship

[@alexandermantooth185]

This isn't even close OPTA has MLS as the 11th best league in the world (Between English Championship a Ligue 2) J League is 22nd between the Polish and Swedish leagues. The level of investment is just not comparable.

[@Surfcastingisgolden]

Im gonna say it again. MLS will be the #1 league in the world. It will be call soccer all over the world but we won be around to see it. But Tac, you will be one of the KZbin pioneers in the history books. They are gonna clap at minute 69 (nice!) On every Orlando match.

[@victorfortunato]

Once the World Cup passes in 2026, the US will forget about soccer, just as it did after 1994

[@colbyfayyad9132]

Houston Dynamo and Cerezo Osaka supporter over here

[@davidday2373]

Any league with Pro-Rel 👎

[@rociovasconez9418]

MLS is better

[@markrubio1286]

MLS is better.

[@nerychristian]

Japanese women are prettier

[@NoName-rq6bg]

wtf is a j league?