Public Transport Fares In Victoria // The Free Tram Zone

[@Taitset]

Hi everyone - this video is an unofficial resource: it's aimed at explaining and critiquing the structure and reasoning behind the fare system. This is an updated version of the video, replacing the original one published in 2022. Please note that the cost of fares have risen slightly since this video was published: For official information on the fare system or to work out the cost of a journey, please visit the official PTV page: www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/fares/

[@comedyzone]

I'm glad there are still some Melburnians who still understand the comparison back to paper tickets. 2HR upgrading to All Day made sense, too bad the Quick Trips are gone though, they were great for localized travel and would be better than the free tram zone (price dependent of course) - but would require touching off on trams and buses which isn't really necessary right now.

[@burntoutelectronics]

The drop in price for me to catch the train between Melbourne and lakes entrance is now the difference between driving and catching the train. where once it would cost roughly the same amount in fuel as it would for two people to get the train, it is now considerably more appealing to just get the train at just 1/4 of the price for the equivalent distance in fuel alone.

[@theannoyinghistorian1812]

Not really the trains fault. Fuel is rather pricey these days.

[@comstr]

Next video: what would YOU do to make the ticketing system better??

[@kkzm]

Tap on/off with just your phone/credit card (no need for separate Myki card), and integrate the rest of VLine network (no paper tickets) are two low hanging fruits

[@radiojake1757]

tram driver here - absolutely hate the free tram zone - certain times the trams get packed with people going 1 or 2 stops and you know there are commuters needing to leave the city who are unable to board because it's too full - then once you hit the edge of the FTZ you'll find the tram back to half empty -

[@closeben]

This is why unless I’m already near Flinders, I just walk up to Victoria Market to head north out of the city. It really isn’t long to walk. People are just lazy.

[@shraka]

Maybe we should look into adding fare gates at the tram stops in the city so we can have the no-tap fast tram boarding within the city limits but charge for it to discourage short trips? We really have a problem of not having any Metro or proper people mover trail in the city though. It's all this hybrid system that also goes out to the suburbs, which means every vehicle is a terrible design compromise.

[@Sagealeena]

Yeah, I need to get through the city from North Melbourne to St Kilda for work, and the sheer number of people getting on and off the trams mean it takes an extra 15 minutes for me to make the trip. When I stay late at work, the journey home at 10pm takes 30mins instead of 45-50mins. I either take the 59 and have to wait for it to crawl from Vic Market to switch at Burke St where I either take a 96 which crawls until Crown/Exhibition & Convention Centre, or a 16 which crawls until Arts Centre. Or I take the train to Southern Cross and then do the slow crawl on the 96 again. Every 10-12 minutes is really not often enough for the 96! On weekends in particular I regularly see individuals, particularly wheelchair users of families with prams, left behind at Southern Cross because the tram is too full.

[@shraka]

@@Sagealeena We really need frequent circular PT options. People traveling from one side of the city to the other shouldn't have to travel through the city.

[@ianmontgomery7534]

@@closebenI go to Petermac hospital a couple of times at least per year and I get off the train at melbourne Central and walk up to Petermac. Its a pleasant walk but if its raining i still have the option of the trams.

[@brudaberguz]

I started uni this year and while I do get a concession card for cheaper fares, living in regional victoria on a line outside of the zone 2/3 area meant I was paying well over $10 a day, and when I was going in 4 days a week that really stacked up, luckily this was implemented around march/april and i only dealt with this for a month which was very nice because i save so much money now that im only paying $15 a week and sometimes dont need to top up my myki for a month or so depending on how much I top up at a time

[@Skasaha_]

I'm pretty fond of our weirdo ticketing system. At its core it's extremely simple - 5 bucks for 2 hours amd 10 for anywhere, and it works on everything. I think it's mainly poor messaging and general Myki-related weirdness that causes problems with tourists and Sydneysiders and journalists and people from Warnambool. Compared to distance-based systems used virtually everywhere else it definitely encourages both heavy and long-distance use the most, which I think is better for making more of Victoria more easily accessible to more people.

[@yukko_parra]

As a Sydney-sider, whilst this isn't great for impromptu trips, I'd love the idea of taking a daytrip to Ballarat (from Melbourne) and back, only using $10 in transportation expenses. also increments of $5? amazing

[@Skasaha_]

@@yukko_parra it's only 5/10 This year. Usually goes up 20 or 40c each year.

[@citybeatdisco19]

@@yukko_parra why are you thinking not great for impromptu trips. Myki network covers well into regional Vic. It's only past mid regional stations that you need a paper ticket, & for one line it says can use Myki to the border/Swan Hill. (the catch is bit after Bendigo have to change to a Bus for most onward journeys as just 2 or 3 trains per day for that far outer regional section but trains) I could head to Southern Cross Station right now, be on a train within an hour & be in Ballarat just after cafes have opened, or in Bendigo as retail shops open (6:30 am now) All i need is my Myki card. & warm clothes & a jacket, currently. (warm, mid week). You can get to Ballarat, Bendigo (bit past both, actually), Seymour, Traralgon, or Geelong (4 or 5 stations past main Geelong Station), with Myki. So all need to do is have $5 on your card & can get to those places. While Bendigo & Traralgon are bit more than 2 hours, the 2 hour limit is extended by time further out. One line it got up to 3.5 hours until the $5/2 hour fare would cease, then change to a day fare. You can then top up before return journey. So you could go to Ballarat, or a bit after to Wendouree where the tram museum is, for $5, stay overnight (for $100+ lol), the return next day for $5. I didn't check if Ballarat /Wendouree is included in the 2 hour plus extension time area, but i was shocked by hour far the extension time goes distance wise, so it should Of course for convenience best to put $10, actually slightly more, as if card does hit $0 of course can't tap on, even if already used it/capped it out, & it's good idea to still have a positve balance after last tap off for the day

[@Jakeio-w9j]

@@Skasaha_ it did and while it sucks that that happens its not that bad, it'd be even better if they build all the projects they want to, then theres a reason for it to be more, even then most pt runs at a loss.

[@TaylerZak]

If you inform a V/line booking clerk you’ve already travelled they’ll check your myki and give you a free extension ticket! EDIT: booking clerk or conductor!

[@gold3084]

They sometimes do similar thing on the train itself but depends on the staff; some do; some don't.

[@almarcaUrban]

I think a big benefit to the free tram zone in the CBD is the throughput of passengers. I often train in to flinders and take the north lines through the CBD, and there's an incredible number of people getting on and off. Not having to touch on and off for everyone there speeds up the unloading and loading time for passengers tenfold!

[@Skasaha_]

My recollection is this was the primary goal, although the benefit for tourists certainly took centre stage in the media.

[@Skasaha_]

I should also add that congestion was already a severe problem when they introduced it. Honestly the only thing I think can solve that is higher frequency, or maybe special peak services that run Collins, turn into Bourke via Spencer and vice versa or something similarly silly.

[@djackmanson]

I have no actual evidence for this, but I've always assumed that was at least one of the reasons for the FTZ. Especially when the excruciatingly slow first-gen Myki readers were still in use.

[@shraka]

You don't have to touch off on the tram. If they wanted better throughput they should have put fare gates on the tram stops and just not had you touch on on the actual tram. Though a better solution to not favoring cars would be to ban cars from huge chunks of the city, charge a congestion fee, and charge multi level car-parks higher taxes.

[@mark123655]

And I guess part of the reason Sydney Light Rail has platform validators. No gates.

[@SENATORPAIN1]

Without sounding like a prick i use too travel an hour on the train every day for work (one way) and happily paid the weekly pass but now i only travel about 12 minutes on train daily and have chosen not to pay at all as i xant justify it and know ill never get caught.i still pay on weekends but im glad for the money ive saved.

[@69gaming196]

we went to Melbourne last week and we split our days into days where we stayed inside the free tram zone (state library, AC/DC lane) and days were we went outside the free tram zone (st kilda, eltham tresstle bridge(inspired by your video on it))

[@Taitset]

That's great that you came out to Eltham!

[@JohnFromAccounting]

I'll be honest, whenever I'm in the CBD I just walk everywhere. I enjoy walking and it's generally quicker than waiting a few minutes for a tram. In that sense, the free tram zone doesn't make a lot of sense because if walking is the better option, there is no need to incentivise trams.

[@nurkhalidarahman2080]

@69gaming196 hii, can I ask? Going to Melbourne soon, does the distance between stations is still walkable?

[@Amazatastic]

​@@nurkhalidarahman2080Yes!! The CBD is generally very walkable. Especially if you only need to go one or two stops of the tram. Have fun in Melbourne!

[@nurkhalidarahman2080]

@@Amazatastic thanks! Can't wait!

[@keller_06]

i think the "removing of the zone 1" thing is to relieve parking pressures on stations at the zone boundary as people are willing to park at a zone 1 station more to avoid the zone 2 fare

[@paulorocky]

Can confirm. Stations like Reservoir and Oakleigh used to get parked out like crazy.

[@igitha..._]

and yet the surrounding businesses that employed parking fees to locals as a result of the influx of rail commuters never removed their parking fees after the zone thing was adjusted..

[@musicalaviator]

The down side to free trains before 7.15 is when the train gets delayed in the loop. Been on a train due in at flinders at 6:54am only to have it get 20mins late after leaving North Melbourne and not only costing the fare, but also making me late to work.

[@himynameis3102]

They should have it where as long as you touch on before 7.15, the trip is free. And they need to extend this to V/Line. Deer park is the next stop after Sunshine but as it’s V/Line, we miss out on a lot the metro price benefits.

[@shraka]

@@himynameis3102 I have a solution: Trips on trains delayed more than 5 minutes are free, then fine Metro their entire operating budget for each delayed train and cancelled service. Can't be late for work if the trains are all on time.

[@christopher6740]

A day with a Taitset video is a good day! Even though I live in the US lol

[@nauts9132]

Aussie abroad? 🤔

[@citybeatdisco19]

@christopher6740 RMTransit is also a fantastic youtube channel re both U.S. public transport and around the world. As you live in U.S. think you'd find heaps to enjoy there too. But he's also done excellent videos re transport in Aus (& doesn't stuff up pronunciations of place names to station names). Also covers some UK & Europe. I believe he has a network of associates /enthusiasts that assist. Taitset, RM Transit, couple other Melbourne ones are my favourite channels re PT

[@TransportofPerth]

Wow I cannot believe that regional travel is the same price as metro travel, that completely blew my mind! If I lived there I would be travelling all over the state all the time lol. Here in Perth the regional trains can only be pre-booked and cost way more than metro services, so I rarely use them.

[@lyallfurphy]

Yeah, ten bucks for the Prospector to Kalgoorlie would be wild.

[@gold3084]

One of the problems with the fare cap is that some of the regional trains are getting very crowded during peak period. Also under the old system regional trains were more expensive during peak times to encourage people to use them off peak where they could. Now there is a cap there is less incentive for people to travel off peak.

[@Taitset]

Yeah, they really should have tied it in with some major timetable improvements.

[@mofo78536]

What if the card self recharges with free credits and fares during peak hours is higher? That would at least reduce the crowding but still give everyone the freedom to roam. Having reliable access to free transport is good for the economy by letting everyone get jobs everywhere.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

That's a service-related issue, rather than a fare-related one.

[@mark123655]

Presumably also with such cheap fares, the cost recovery makes it very expensive to add more services.

[@Taitset]

@@mark123655 The services are already heavily subsidised, there's no real expectation of cost recovery. They will certainly add more services once there are enough trains and crews, but we're not building them nearly fast enough.

[@tobesxd]

Paper tickets, and the V/line website as a whole, really hold the service back . Maybe a good thing given the current state of the service and its capacity lol

[@marcused8317]

Everywhere is the free tram zone if you try hard enough

[@Sandwich1414]

I pay for a yearly Myki pass through a system at my work called Commuter Club, which gives a slightly discounted rate for the pass. The pass ends up being good value for me as I commute to work regularly in the week and use it extensively on weekends. My partners family also lives in Ballan so if she's up there after work, the Commuter Club pass will get me there as well. I'm not a big fan of the free tram zone. It's really annoying seeing a packed tram arrive and knowing in just two stops it'll become far less crowded. Maybe a discounted city fare or something, where travel is discounted in a boundary, would be a good alternative?

[@Ryzi03]

9:30 The VLine fare cap extends to 60km past the border so you can even extend that trip even further and take the 7:30am coach from Merimbula to Bairnsdale and still make it to Mildura on the same $10 fare. It doesn't increase the distance as the bird flies but it adds extra travel distance and an extra 1-2 hours of travel as well

[@fesh]

yay i get to see my name on the scrolly list at the end

[@Taitset]

Yay!

[@baku6722]

Good video mate. Only thing you didn't cover, which I was hoping you would is the Victorian Student Pass. You did somewhat cover it in your section about the Myki passes, however the VSP actually has some pretty cool benefits that I think make it worthy of its own section. It costs $686 for a yearly pass and allows travel anywhere in (or within 60km across the border as I was told by the PTV phone people, despite it not being mentioned on the website...). It isn't quite as good value now that the fare cap applies to regional Vic too, however it definitely still saves a fair bit of money if you regularly take longer trips). And since it's still paper tickets in like half the state, the way you get one is pretty interesting and so poorly integrated. You first need to book online, then you need to go to a station to pick it up. Officially, they will then take your myki and run it through their reader to confirm your pass is valid (but of course they never do) before printing your ticket out for you. As far as I'm aware, I believe that's actually the only example of being able to receive a paper ticket with a transport smart card we have in Australia.

[@Taitset]

That's really interesting, I didn't know about that process! Might deserve it's own short video at some point.

[@citybeatdisco19]

@@Taitset Would the extension into NSW be perhaps only for the Victorian Railway's network lines that run into NSW. Such as Deniliquin line. (*What was, & if passenger trains still ran on them) 60 k across the border sounds like it'd be Deni, although from Moama it's 72k approx, but the marked as Vic line (on a map) past Albury is about to 50kms past Albury. Not any relevance to any train services, just Victrack

[@wiznendo]

Hey, love the videos, but I think something was overlooked with the free tram zone, Yes it is kind of dumb that the people who benefit will be the wealthy who can afford to live in the CBD, but that is only looking at the pure cost, and not the logistics. In the CBD the tram stops will be busiest, and most likely to have people who aren't locals, and you can't touch on before boarding like you would with a train. By making the whole area free it removes the need for everyone to touch on as they board, and people stopping to get out their Mikis or waiting at the machine for it to read, and it allows people to just get on and go. Similar to how you don't need to touch off when leaving a tram, I don't know if it's always worked that way or if you used to have to touch off when Miki was first introduced. But now you don't need to touch off as you leave a tram, so dwell times are in theory reduced massively

[@Taitset]

There's certainly an argument for that, but it's also possible that the increased short trips encouraged by the zone cause just as much delay as touching on used to. I personally think they should put readers on the stops in the city so you can touch on before boarding. Also the newer readers are waaay faster so cause far less issues than the old ones that sometimes take like 5 seconds to work. The 'not touching off trams' thing was added later, it caused a bit of chaos in the early days, with those slow original readers.

[@jessta314]

When I used to take a train to and from uni I'd regularly not be able to get on a tram in the 'free tram zone' and have to walk to outside the free tram to take my tram home. The 'free tram zone' has been long past proven a bad idea and needs to be removed.

[@shraka]

Fare gates at the tram stops would allow faster boarding. It'd be a bit complex to set up but apparently they're re-vamping the system soon anyway.

[@exploringsydneysrailways]

It's interesting comparing this system to Sydney's distance-based fare system. In Sydney the fare is based on the distance between where you tap on and tap off (and there are a lot of complicated rules for how this is calculated for each transport mode), and it results in short trips being a fair bit cheaper than they would be in Melbourne, but long trips across the city being more expensive. This creates slightly different incentives to Melbourne's system.

[@anson1269]

Sydney’s weekly cap of $50 dollars basically beats Melbourne if you are having 5-day work week (5 x $10 in Melbourne) and essentially getting weekend travels for free in Sydney but still have to pay fares in Melbourne. So Sydney’s could arguably be cheaper but both do have their advantages & quirks!

[@closeben]

Melbourne really needs to adopt this strategy. I’m just not sure how they can also apply it to trams without asking us to waste even more time with tapping off.

[@profonde3460]

@@anson1269 But you're only considering the Myki being used as a daily /Myki Money card. A Myki 7 day Pass is $50, so weekend = Free. If having 5 days consecutive travel, most workers would top up so the card becomes a Myki Pass. So no difference at all, really. Say used Myki as a daily for 7 consecutive days, you'd be mad as everyone knows a weekly is cheaper anywhere cost is not $20 more. Myki cap on Saturday or Sunday is $7:20, Sydney $8.90. Sydney's Daily Cap at $16.80 is a big diff to Melb's of $10, (& it was $9.20 till last June). You may not know when you'll reach the cap, (unless do exact same 2 journeys every day). Melbourne, your first journey on weekend is free before you start. Sydney's Weekday Daily Cap of $16.80 doesn't include travel to Blue Mountains. Does Sunday Cap still? Don't think it does, as the $2:50 Sunday cap ended end of 2019. That cap included some adjacent to Metropolitan areas. (Should've done trip to Blue Mountains also, as well as the 7 ferries doing my own Harbour touring on Sun 22 Sept). Victoria's unlimited travel anyhwere in a day capped at $10 is amazing, but it's only been since April 2023 (was $9.20 from April to June), & regional fares prior comparable to Syd. Seniors & Pensioners capped at $5 daily weekdays get free on weekends in Melbourne. (some other options re that, where can save to, one being 2 free tickets for Metropolitan residents, & 4 for Regional Victoria residents). In Sydney, it's $2.50 daily for them but also pay on weekends. You did say "arguably" & it most definitely is, whether saying Sydney works out better or saying Melbourne works out better. Sydney works out (not re fare but re what's included) re one thing. Where else in the world can you get as many ferries as you want to (excluding High Speed & a few only certain ones), in one day, for a max cost of $8.90. And getting to and back from the ferry terminal is included.

[@profonde3460]

@@closeben are you saying re short trip tickets? Or re distance fares? Melbourne had short trip tickets with Metcard (the paper card precursor, more or less, to Myki). I think a lot of people are believing short trip tickets would be for further than they would be. Short trip tickets (based on when had) are only for 2 sections on tram or bus, & 1 section on train. Also short trip tickets are/were not half the price (that applies re Syd too). Are about 30% less. The 'End Section' signs are still along tram routes outside CBD. Brunswick St, from Victoria Pde to Johnston St is 2 sections. It's about 7 minutes to walk it. Think width of CBD was 2 sections. For trains 1 section was about 2 or 3 stations, don't think it was ever for 4 (it wasn't same number of stations on each line nor all areas, as varied re where along each line). While can't walk 3 stations (can, but it's about 10-15 minutes between inner suburban stations), 2 tram sections isn't far, but at night, or tired or exhausted it is. Of course people used to do what they do now re the Free Tram Zone, go 2 or 3 stops after the end of the section. As for distance fares v timed fares which usually have a cap, with 2 hour or all day (time) fares you can always know* what your max spend for a day will be. Or 2 hours or 3 hours if a system has that option. (* can easily know/find out if not too aware re it). With distance based ticketing, unless it's same journeys each time (say to/from work) won't know what max cost will be, without having to do some fares checking & adding. For example to get from Sydney CBD to end of network, to (in different directions) Berowra, Emu Plains, Macarthur or Waterfall, a person doesn't know what the fare will be until they buy the ticket, or look online. (*not referring to regulars to those places). I also think it's not same fare, to each. For Melbourne you know it will cost $5 to end of line, on any Metro network line. Don't have to look up any fares per distance, just know the 2 hour fare & even if don't know it, it won't make difference

[@closeben]

@@profonde3460 of course there would still be a max fare. I’d suggest $1 minimum + 50c per train station (except going through City loop which would only be counted as 2 stations) up to a maximum of $4 per trip. Also add a $1 per 30mins just in case someone sits on trains for ages without leaving a station. But the maximum still shouldn’t be more than $4. Then with trams and buses I say it’d be easier to just make a flat fair of $2 for a single trip, regardless of distance. Also covered by a $4 maximum in 2 hours across trains/trams/buses.

[@Xavier0458]

The whole network is the free tram zone if you are fast enough ;)

[@MarkyDav]

Early Bird not covering trams is really annoying :(

[@FeatureHistory]

Thanks to your channel I know when the rules change and that I'm not going insane talking about how fares work with my parents haha

[@darylcheshire1618]

The more cynical person would say that owing to all the delays that no trip can be made under two hours. But in reality I have never seen this. Most days are without problems. Regarding random Vline trips, some needed to be booked. Myki fares have a daily cap, but in Brisbane, I got a Go card and put $50 in it thinking it will suffice for 2-3 days but I nearly exhaused that by that afternoon. I don’t know if this has changed since I visited Brisbane.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Speaking of vlines. Since the train map is incredibly out of scsle, it's be cool if rhe vline train stations had listed rhe distance or time next to the station name on the map. After all, theres a big difference between a trip from Melbourne to Melton or Melbourne to swan hill.

[@Alexander_Dunn]

I believe the new "fair" regional fares, although much simpler, are not fair at all. Let's base our fare system on distance like sydney, for example, one could be charged $0.08 per km in the metropolitan area and $0.04 on regional services, and then halve that fare for concession, seniors, etc. That's a cost of $2.48 for a trip from Flinders Street to Mernda, almost $3 to Geelong, or $7.60 for a trip from Southern Cross to Shepparton, pretty fair fares imo.

[@the_yesnt1358]

Do you think you make do a video on the VLine coach network. Regardless, what is your (and other peoples) opinion on the coach network, especially where it exists in place of a historical train route?

[@Taitset]

I would like to make a video about it! I really only catch V/line coaches once or twice a year if I'm lucky, so I don't have a ton of experience with them. But overall they seem very good for what they are.

[@mewosh_]

Oh boy I can't imagine paying so much for transit. Where I live daily passes in most cities cost around 2 US dollars

[@bradzv8crazy]

This is all correct for the time of this video. Unless you live in Mildura, where there are no trains or trams. The buses in Mildura don't use Myki and still charge cash prices for a ride. Which is very frustrating after paying via Myki to get to Southern Cross, $5 then pay again for your Vline ticket $10 to arrive in Mildura to only have to pay the bus company charges. The system is flawed. Great video, Thank you.

[@bellakagamine]

When I moved to Melbourne I thought the Myki would do the fare cap after I hit a certain amount paid like it did in my hometown back in the US! I was so surprised to find out that it never caps if you pay daily, and I was overpaying for a month until I finally got myself a Myki Pass. Now I just pay a month at a time for a pass and I spend much, much less on my commute from Collingwood > Epping > Prahran 6 days a week between two jobs...

[@patronise]

The real benefit of the free tram zone is you don't have people sloooowly boarding as the line starts and stops while people are busy their tickets - something I used to see a lot of. Now people just get on and it's much better. (Of course, people still don't realise trams have more than one door - but that's a seperate topic about boarding optimisation.) :P

[@shanojebs]

Sydney's daily cap is $16.80, which is a strange number to have chosen, much more than Melbourne's $10. Also the $10-$20 state cap is amazing. The annoying thing is getting from Sydney to Albury can cost as much as $80. NSW certainly hasn't caught up to Victoria, so as a result I'm boycotting NSW for my Christmas break in favour of Victoria travel, economically it makes sense, and all that extra cash I would've spent in NSW will be going to small businesses in Victoria.

[@lachlantanseytheii4412]

time to go to raywood then to traralgon then back home because why not

[@lachlanbaker2031]

Mildura-Melbourne is now only $10 instead of roughly $52 for full fare in economy.

[@sarah.sarah.sarah.sarah.]

we’re about the same age and grew up in the same area so i spent this entire video yelling “YES! YES!!”, much to the bemusement of my american fiancé. love your vids pal 👍

[@JoeyLovesTrains]

Dog I could never imagine $10 fair… it costs $12 to get to Boston from Kingston Massachusetts. If you want to take the 2 hour ride from Boston to Hyannis, it cast $20 and its $40 round trip.

[@Taitset]

$10aud is also only $6.30usd!

[@chrismckellar9350]

I was in Melbourne in August 2023 and was blown aware with the fare cap of $10.00 per day anywhere in in the state if using a paper ticket including local PTV brand bus services outside and within the Myki Zones. PTV had a Myki Explorer package that included a Myki card, travel wallet and a train and tram map and Melbourne's major tourism products that had a discount on entry fees if the Myki was shown. Speaking to the staff at Southern Cross station PTV service centre, the Myki Explorer pack has suspend pending to the A$1.7 billion upgrade to the Myki to become an 'open' state wide 'tap & travel' payment/ticketing system. It seems the recently introduced $10.00 per day fare cap is part of the Myki upgrade. I think the city free tram zone will go once the Myki upgrade has been complete and introduce. I do agree needs to go as it encourages fare evasion which I noticed on the various trams journey I took travelling inbound to the city centre.

[@AugBrown]

You can ask for a free "extension ticket" if you've already reached the myki cap but then need to travel into the paper ticket area. I've been given one for travel to Maryborough after I had worked and travelled with myki in Melbourne. They put the myki card number on the ticket, so be careful photographing and sharing publicly.

[@Taitset]

I have since learned about this - it's obviously very poorly advertised though and not well known.

[@KRaftopoulos]

From my recollection, the changes to the tram zones were done because when myki was introduced, trams were getting delayed because people had to tap off in order to get charged the correct fare. Making zone 1 encompass the entire tram network removed the need to tap off, thus improving the flow of passengers getting off trams. The free tram zone was introduced for a few reasons including tourism and greater access to retail but also to offset the removal of the 'city saver zone'.

[@marquee_tags]

The FTZ was about combatting slow myki readers, hence the FTZ being a "don't tap on" thing instead of actually making CBD trips free. The government supplied other reasons of course, but they were spin. The entire fare structure at this point is just a collection of pre-election band aids of various governments 😂

[@aussietaipan8700]

I catch the 06:36 train to the city and I am charged full fare so I don't know if the early bird works for outer suburb zone 2 trains. Am I missing something here?

[@Taitset]

You have to leave the system before 7:15.

[@LiamFlaherty]

@@Taitset Jesus🙃

[@tw25rw_]

I liked it when you got 3 hours and it started from the next hour. So one could catch a tram at 9.05 am and it would last until 1pm.

[@TreFR14]

I remember this video as its older version but its been updated which is good

[@accidentalchild6257]

I live regional and when i went to uni in 2020-2021 it used to cost me $50-$60 dollars per DAY for a return trip, with the train trip from my closest station into melbourne taking over 2 hours, not even including the tram i had to switch to to get to Bundoora. thankfully most of my classes were remote, but when i had to be there several days in a row it was cheaper finding accommodation in melbourne than returning home at the end of the day. now i can actually afford to take a day trip into melbourne and see things

[@snowyalice]

I will drive the 40 mins to Traralgon from Sale to catch the train just because it has Myki and the trains go later. The price drop from $60 to $10 was amazing for regional Victoria.

[@michaelhusada]

Thank you for the explanation for how the fares work. As a regional commuter into the City, I love the $10 cap as it used to cost me about $28 a day to go to work. I also work Saturdays and if I don’t have to start early, the $7.20 weekend cap makes it so much cheaper than driving. With Saturday free car park at work, my fuel (current prices) and CityLink toll total to about $30 for the commute. If I need to park elsewhere, that’s an extra $12. This is a great help with my cost of living and at the end of the day, better for the environment. I love just sitting on the train, either relaxing or working (mostly sleeping). Plus, at that time of the day, I don’t have to worry about crashing into wildlife on the freeway.

[@lawrencemercieca]

Free tram zone is a joke It makes it an absolute pain to actually commute I’d say half the people getting on will just get off in 1-2 stops anyway The time it took waiting for a tram, they could’ve just walked It’s so bad, I’ll just walk to a train or bus, which defeats the idea of it I. The first place Maybe they should incentivise long distance travel, so if you start in an outer zone and stop in the city, it’s discounted That’d get more people on the trains, it’s annoying that it costs the same to drive from both sides of Melbourne Melton/Ringwood to the CBD as it does to take the train There is no incentive to take a slower form of transport unless it’s ridiculously convenient

[@venturabus01]

Normally I just buy weekly a monthly zone-15 which is $25 or $84 it also includes vline Which I like It doesn't charge for a default fare and no need to touch off and there is no extra trip charge

[@clawscrab3497]

So if Myki charges you for the exact distance travelled, then that would make fare zones obsolete. They're not even displayed on network maps anymore...

[@lexthequeer]

I wonder if it would help to have trams that are designated for travellers going beyond the free tram zone. though i wonder how that'd be enforced, and how messy the culture shift would be, maybe for example every second tram being a 'no short trips' tram could address some of the issues with overcrowding?

[@ZemdegsD]

The main issue with the Vline costing significantly lower is the amount of people now travelling. There are some real sardine vline trains at times. They should have brought in more frequent services to cover this.

[@Skasaha_]

I think this is a bit of a red herring. It certainly increased patronage, but the lines with the biggest issues already had tons of passengers for suburban services that never paid more than $10, and these suburban stations are like #2 though #7 or something on the busiest stations list (excepting Geelong). Albury is probably the worst hit specifically by this change, because of how few services it has and how little SG rolling stock there is to run it. The western lines were already done for.

[@ianmontgomery7534]

the main problem I see is, as you pointed out, people going two stops in peak hour which limits the availability of seats for long distance travelers. I like the facility that seniors have - when you get your seniors card you get a seniors Myki which gives you free travel on weekends and half price during the week, which makes it about $4.60. I use trains a lot more now. I especially like it if i go to see family in Geelong. It makes no sense to use my car for one person if I am just having a day visit.

[@carerforever2118]

Thanks to the Carer Pension and Carer Allowance payments that l get from Centrelink, l can now pay the concession price, instead of full price like l did back in the days when l was working before the Covid Pandemic hit.

[@phillip1604]

Meanwhile regional NSW is paying almost $100 for coach / XPT ride in some scenarios...

[@chappo91rulz]

My dad utilised the Early Bird as he would start work in the City at 7am so would walk to the station and only have to buy the 10x 2 hour Metcard for his return home travel

[@shaggyirl]

I remember back in 2010 to 2014 living in Traralgon it cost me $20 just for a 1 way trip on myki

[@MartinAsleep]

Whenever me and my family have traveled to Melbourne from up north by train we just show our Vline ticket to metro staff who let us through the gates, and get free metro trains all day!

[@musco71]

“We don’t traditionally like to learn from other states” 😂😂😂

[@scarletlightning565]

I slightly missunderstood the privious version of this video and yesterday quoted to a visiting friend of mine that "you can travel across the entire state on a single capped fare, regardless of transport type". Turns out I was right accidently XD Abolishing paper tickets will be great too.

[@happysmileyface]

👍

[@shaunclarke94]

You didn't touch on the default fare if you don't touch off and how this will behave on different trips.

[@fencepostlamb3260]

Every transport system is free if your fast enough

[@charleyhew6402]

The Daily cap of $10 anywhere is great I remember traveling from southern to swan hill once and afterwards myki was in negative $20+

[@LiamFlaherty]

At that point just ditch the myki

[@AustrALIEN666]

Soon Myki will be gone and we will start using our bank cards for fair's

[@Taitset]

It will be both, they won't remove the ticketing system.

[@AustrALIEN666]

@@Taitset you might be right as android can have myki on the phone so maybe iPhone can use your card to pay the travel fees

[@enochliu8316]

​@@AustrALIEN666Concession fare must still use a Myki card.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Did you rerecord most the dialogue or reuse it, observant fans will notice majority of the video is the old dialogue just updated with new prices and information

[@Taitset]

I was originally going to just redo parts of it, bit it sounded weird so I re-recorded the whole thing. Probably about 30% of the script is changed, most of it only slightly.

[@Mhjeffrey027running]

Free tram zone usually gets unofficially extended after the footy or cricket, in that touching on a Myki is impossible as the tram is always full. Lesson for out of staters....never try to get on at the Rod Laver Arena stop, always walk to the next stop up to guarantee getting on a tram (and even then it may not be a guarantee). But I guess having to pay for PT to get to and from the footy or cricket (and for train commuters trying to get into Richmond and Jolimont stations having to touch on first in a crowd of thousands) is so far behind every other capital city who integrate free public transport with a game ticket for 2-3 hours before and after the game/day's play.

[@JackStavris]

As someone who travels from Warragul to the CBD for work every day, the $10 fare cap is a huge money saver for me. I was spending about $350 a month on a MyKi pass and now it’s less than half of that which is great, much less expensive than paying for fuel at over $2 per litter now and being stuck in traffic jams on the Monash freeway. I also use the trams in the city when I’m on my lunch break, however the free tram zone is useless to me considering I’ve already hit the fare cap for the day by 8:30 AM, so it makes no difference to me if the trams are free or not, other than there being no room on them and being packed in like sardines.

[@J-Bahn]

Philadelphia, take notes.

[@Quokka666]

you relly need to look in to the big work being dun in perth

[@marcinsz1381]

@Taitset Thanks mate. Good video. :) So if I touch on and than off (let's say 3 hours later) I'll pay a daily cap. What if I somehow fail to touch off (touch validator second time the same day) even when I travelled whole day? In accordance with Victorian-Fares-and-Ticketing-Conditions-effective-1-January-2022-July-2023-update 4.67 - 4.69 I'll pay just a default fare which is a 2h fare, is that right? Interesting why you need to touch off on the bus but not on trams?

[@Taitset]

Yeah, you'd just pay the default 2hr fare. The not touching off on trams thing was a feature added later because it was causing so many delays (especially with how slow the original readers are). It wasn't as much of a problem on busses so they just didn't implement it on them.

[@lachyak]

The prices are completely different for me, and havent changed since the video came out. I am on student concession and pay $1.65 for any bus ride and $2.65 for a train ride from zone 1 -2 or zone 2 - 1 (never take a train from zone 2-2 or 1-1). If I take a mutliple buses i caps at $1.65 for the 2 hours and if I take a mixture of buses and trains it caps at $2.65 for the 2 hours. This doesn't change for me based on day of the week, not sure about time of day. This means I pay at most $5.30.

[@Taitset]

$1.65 is a 2 hour concession zone 2. $2.65 is a 2 hour concessions Zone 1 + 2. It doesn't make any difference if it's a bus or a train. Multiple busses, or a mixture of trains and busses, also won't make any difference. If you catch busses for more than two hours, it will become a daily fare. $5.30 is the daily concession cap for a weekday - if you travel on a weekend/public holiday it will cap at $3.60.

[@FlashMeterRed]

Early birds bullshit. I catch the very first vline train in, and switch to a metro out towards the north. I arrive at my final station at 7.19. That is literally the earliest bird I can be and I still get charged.

[@Taitset]

Even if you arrived before 7:15 you wouldn't get it, as early bird doesn't apply to V/line trains for some baffling reason.

[@hashbrown777]

Im pretty sure the weekly/monthly prepaid things are like that because it's a win-win (for you & myki). You pay less and myki get paid an advance. If there was a weekly or monthly cap instead, myki just lose. The only thing I liked about sydney was that you didn't even need an opal, you can literally tap on and off with your credit card

[@Taitset]

You only win if you a actually end up travelling enough days to get the value out of it though - if plans change and you end up not travelling as much as you expected, then you lose.

[@closeben]

Hey @Taitset I don’t know why but this video isn’t showing in my Subscription feed. Would this be just an issue with this channel or am I potentially missing a bunch of stuff from other channels too?

[@Taitset]

I set this video not to notify just because it's an update of an old video, so most of my subscribers will have already seen most of it. It still comes up in people's suggested videos though.

[@touchthatrhino639]

It doesn’t work for spontaneous trips. But when buying a V/Line paper ticket you receive two hours of Myki travel. You just show your paper ticket at the gate.

[@Taitset]

Yep, it works that way around.

[@arachnid7468]

paper tickets overcome the issue of not being integrated with the myki system by acting as a day pass for any public transport within zone 1 and 2

[@Taitset]

Yes, but that only works in one direction if you're starting in the suburbs and don't have an opportunity to buy one first.

[@True_NOON]

6 euro für einen ganzen tag halt schon ziemlich hart attraktiv

[@TheDinoKitteh]

The recent news about sporting events and concerts doing extremely well failed to bring up how it only costs me five dollars to travel into the city then $20-30 making me more willing to support events of this nature instead of being extremely picky.

[@ultrajaywalker]

If you travel exclusively between zones 1 and 3 (V/Line), you pay more than the daily metro 2-hour fare, but less than the cap, and your travel time is limited to 2.5 hours (rather than being limited to just 2). The fare website for regional rail lists other alternative zones between 1 and 2-15, but anything higher than 3 hits the fare cap - their longer allowable travel time listed seems to be a redundant hangover from before the cap. Regional fares excluding zone 1 (as in - not interacting with stations or stops within zone 1) also have fares below the fare cap allowing travel across/through up to 7 contiguous zones within 2 hours (is that even possible?), and up to 3 contiguous zones for entire day passes. I wonder if traveling through 7 non-zone-1 zones after 6 PM would still be less than 10 dollars even if it took longer than 2 hours? Seniors also receive free travel across the network on Saturdays and Sundays for trips entirely within one or two consecutive zones (including within Zone 1+2) and on regional town bus services - plus annual free travel vouchers if they are both a Victorian resident and a Victorian Seniors Card holder. It is my opinion that all time-limited discounts should be simplified to 3 hours, a half-price ticket for journeys less than 5 minutes (busses/trams) or 3 stations (metro train) be introduced, and that fare capping be enshrined to replace the confusing and inaccessible pass system.

[@Daniel15au]

Are the two hour fares exactly two hours now? I remember in the 90s they used to round up, so the "two hour" Metcards would actually be between two and three hours (eg you could buy a ticket any time between 9: 01 and 10 :00 inclusive and it'd expire at 12).

[@Taitset]

Yes, I believe they've changed it to be 2 hours exactly now.

[@enochliu8316]

2014 was when it was changed.

[@Daniel15au]

@@enochliu8316 Thanks for the info! I moved overseas in 2013 which is probably why I wasn't aware of that change.

[@yukko_parra]

A practical case for the cheapness of V-Line is from Sydney-Melbourne A 1-way train ride costs $93 by default But by changing at Albury, it costs $83 instead. So if you really want costs savings, that's the way to go. And your sanity as well.

[@Alexander_Dunn]

8:58: replying to your caption in the bottom left, i believe the reason why would be because those stations beyond deer park, sunbury and cragieburn are all around the same distance away from the CBD as Pakenham is, so they are included in zone 2 to make it fair. As the stations beyond Pakenham are further away, they are not included.

[@supriadiramlan5545]

awesome vids visit Melbourne in 2010 still on metcard things, now planning to visit there again , very informative v line integrated with metro now not half price for sat and sunday

[@sean-sinclair]

Thanks! Just moved to Melbourne last week from Darwin and this video was super helpful

[@shxrpe3646]

As someone who regularly deals with the quirks of V/line and paper tickets, I was curious about how you said they will eventually be phased out. Are there any news articles or sources for this? I'd love to learn more and gauge when they plan to do it.

[@darksnakenerdmaster]

The early bird and evening discount will certainly be helpful, I didn't even know those were a thing and I've been using the system for years

[@alexhelvetica]

V/Line tickets are valid to use in Zone 1/2, so as long as you prebuy, you'll be able to hop on Melbourne PT, then catch a V/Line to paper ticket land for $10. Also, how does the daily cap of $10 work on regional buses not serviced by Myki? Is that also the $10 fare cap? Additionally, you missed the weekend discounts where the daily fare is $7.20. I presume the family saver V/Line ticket is now gone (1 adult+ 2 kids cost the same as 1 adult).

[@Taitset]

Yes pre-booking does get around the problem, but you can't do it spontaneously. I did mention the weekend cap at 5:15. ;)

[@alexhelvetica]

@@Taitset whoops, sorry you're right. I must have zoned out for that 5 or so seconds. I thought it's weird you're talking about the previous $2.50 Sunday saver without talking about the weekend saver xD

[@enochliu8316]

A daily ticket on the buses costs $7.60 at most, and the 10 dollar cap applies regardless.

[@LiamFlaherty]

You just show them your V/Line ticket and they press a button (most of the PTV bus operators have an arrangement with V/Line), regularly take the train from Warrnambool Station to Waurn Ponds Station for Uni and just show the bus driver the V/Line ticket and they either know exactly what to do and press the button or get confused to the extent you'd think I were explaining how to split the atom

[@LiamFlaherty]

Something I've found interesting is that since regional busses are included, if you're going Skiing at Mount Hotham for example, you can take a train from one side of the state to the other under the cap and get a free bus ride up the mountain (limited days, need to pre-book the regional bus and show the V/Line attendant that you've already paid a PT fare that hits the cap and get the free extension ticket) but still! For $5-10 amazing value given the price of fuel/private bus operators!

[@maitesuazo2539]

If you get a Zone 1 - 15 Myki Pass, it costs the same as the Zone 1&2 pass and it gets you free paper tickets if you show it.

[@commentymccommentface9748]

You said as much at the top, but the video is Serious deja vu. A bit of a wigout, but still handy regardless

[@afez2752]

i used to have to spend 20 dollars a day for my uni even on concession. it sucked but now it is only half the amount it has allowed me to stay out of the suburbs as one of the driving factors to move in was the cheaper transport.

[@ryanryanabc]

if u lose a "yearly full fare" ticket.....

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

This is why you register you myki online

[@pieterbosman6918]

Very comprehensive!!!! Thanks 😊

[@zeealo]

Gonna have to update this again for 2024!

[@simonnaughton2272]

+1 for the weekly / monthly cap.

[@SimonS44]

Just having looked this up it's interesting that the fare cap doesn't apply to the Sydney train even for a journey from Melbourne to say Albury

[@citybeatdisco19]

@SimonS44, Albury is still in NSW isn't it? Melbourne to Sydney is an Interstate Service, not a Regional Service. Think can get off to Wodonga for $10 Although can get on/off at some regional towns along it. Same applies re to SA border on Melbourne-Adelaide Interstate Service. Anyway, if you were trying to get a cheap way to Sydney from Melbourne, it doesn't work. As ticket Albury -Sydney was (not even) $10 less than Melbourne - Sydney cost

[@Taitset]

It's because the Sydney service (XPT) isn't part of PTV - administratively it's a NSW route that happens to come into Victoria. You can travel Melbourne to Albury on the v/line service and the fare cap will apply.

[@citybeatdisco19]

@@Taitset So we can definitely get to Albury Station for $10?. Tried to get the fare online (about month ago) & it wouldn't show up. So I thought perhaps maybe could only do to Wodonga for $10 (& wasn't sure re that after my search), & it appears that not all Interstates stop there. Sometimes, as I've found re some things in the past, is to just do re PT. To find out re a particular thing

[@Taitset]

@@citybeatdisco19 Yep it definitely applies between Melbourne and albury with v/line, but not on the XPT.

[@SYDTrainsFilms]

7:04 Conveniently Sydney is just about to abolish our weeky cap. I'm sad to see it go.

[@Taitset]

That's a shame!

[@anson1269]

Any source that indicates of erasing weekly cap? I have never heard of eliminating any fare discount policies except cutting the half-price fare after 8 trips

[@enochliu8316]

www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-and-events/media-releases/friday-fares-slashed-as-annual-opal-price-rise-comes-into-effect Nope, the weekly cap is retained, as is the daily cap. This is the official source.

[@mark123655]

Believe the $50 cap is staying. Just the 8 then 50% (which used to be 8 then free) is going.. which really only impacts people doing shorter fares. Also getting lower all day caps on Fri, Sat and Sun.

[@SYDTrainsFilms]

​@@mark123655 Yes! This is correct, I got the two confused. Thanks for the clarification!

[@dorianjf07]

Would be really cool if you did an explainer on the Vline network and all the trains.

[@Taitset]

I will certainly do that eventually!

[@fairlymoon448]

This metro girly would love to see a vid like that! Time to explore some train travellin' i think!