Bus Replacements in Melbourne // Always An Adventure!

[@Taitset]

By the way, all the internal bus footage I used in this was taken during very quiet periods for easier filming. It was much more typical for buses to be completely full, and usually packed with standees. This video was largely written on my phone while I was squished up the back of one of these buses! What a great time.

[@peterelvery]

Don't most people use Tripview to work out their journey options? In Sydney the repacement bus routes and other details are included there.

[@peterelvery]

BTW is the extra s in buses a Melbourne thing, like Reservor?😅

[@Taitset]

@@peterelvery Third party apps aren't very useful when the data being provided to them is incorrect or incomplete, as it is in these cases.

[@Taitset]

@@peterelvery Haha you've got me there. Looks like it's just how I spell it! From a bit of googling, 'busses' is in many dictionaries as an alternative spelling, but rarely used: www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/plural-of-bus#:~:text=The%20plural%20of%20the%20noun,an%20error%20to%20many%20people.

[@peterelvery]

@@Taitset Yeah. I did think of that. I'm just used to this kind of thing in Tripview. Never really needed to think about the source. Buses replace trains between Penrith and Strathfield Sat 18 Nov 02:00 - Mon 20 Nov 02:00 Bus routes 32T1 Penrith, Blacktown, Parramatta, then Granville and return 39T1 Penrith, express to Strathfield and return 40T1 Penrith, then all stations to Granville and return

[@NewFalconerRecords]

I approached SBS to do a TV series "Great Train Replacement Bus Journeys of the World". They haven't got back to me as yet.

[@drworm5007]

XD. What about "101 layovers you must experience before you die"?

[@gussyt1761]

Following Bradshaw Train Replacement Bus Journey Guide Book too???

[@pnegeoff5385]

You could do a U.K special.

[@geoffreyhansen8543]

That would be interesting! :)

[@liam3284]

It would be *slow* TV

[@CommissionerManu]

The bit roasting their map was AMAZING 😂

[@krissp8712]

Yeah, they might have an official style guide or something, if the main objective of communication was failed, consistency becomes useless!

[@IsuruKusumal]

​@@krissp8712 yeah i think they didnt want to use colors here because the colors are already designated for different lines and they didn't want to confuse commuters with that. Which is fair enough

[@LordPhobos6502]

You'll never work at ptv drawing maps like that. It had useful information, and was easily readable.

[@Rheilffordd]

Because one more lane bro 😜 Wow, that is a total mess of an organisation of replacement buses! You were very fair and balanced with your views on bustitution and I sure hope PTV are watching this! During the pandemic, I drove rail replacement buses on Adelaide’s Gawler line for the 18months that line was out of service for electrification. Over time it was great to see the Transport department evolve the bus service such as changing more efficient routes and scheduling, which made the service bearable for the time the railway was out of service for!

[@Taitset]

Good to know Adelaide actually learnt from the experience! It baffles me that Melbourne has taken basically this same approach to bus replacements for so long with little improvement, despite all the huge LXRP shut-downs.

[@liam3284]

When bus replacements are unexpected, they take an hour to show up, even if you are standing beside a depot full of busses.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

I remember when replacement buses became so frequent, the PTV app gave up and literally deleted the Sunbury line from flinders street

[@oscarpistorius3710]

As someone living a bit further in on the Hurstbridge line, I was happy to avoid most of the outer bus replacement shenanigans, but those few days where the works stretched past my station were annoying as all hell. Not to mention taking connections to pakenham and having it mess that up too. It doesn't help that the PTV app shows bus replacements using the train icon, which just completely baffles me. There's no way to tell anything's amiss without going into the little alerts section, which is often filled with meaningless bullshit about carpark closures in somebody else's station. I will say though, if I had gotten some of those cookies, I might feel differently.

[@LetsgoMelbourneStorm]

The T3 users in Sydney just love their bus replacements 51 out of 52 weeks a year.😅

[@exploringsydneysrailways]

That line is going to be closed for at least 6 months pretty soon, and I really hope they work out an efficient, useful, and clearly-communicated bus replacement system by then. At minimum they should put GPS trackers on all the buses used for the service so passengers can see where the buses actually are.

[@mackenzietoscan3602]

@@exploringsydneysrailwayswhen their convert the Epping to Chatswood rail link ( the ones at open in 2009) to the metro. Their branded the rail replacement buses and have the newly retired SBS news lady to advertise it. They should do the same

[@peterelvery]

Umm. No. I use it every week and it's only been replacement buses on some weekends and school holidays so far, but the 12 month Bankstown to Sydenham closure will not be fun for those affected.

[@LetsgoMelbourneStorm]

@@peterelvery I’m just joking, but you have to admit it has been closed for long periods at a time (as you mentioned school holidays/occasional weekends) but this has been annoying and very disruptive.

[@LordPhobos6502]

@@exploringsydneysrailways Those busses likely already have gps; most public transport vehicles have some form of vehicle monitoring for fleet management.

[@Daviesh]

Another Pakenham line viewer here, totally agree with everything in the video. Bustitution should be a fine art in Melbourne, but the connections between bus and train can be baffling. We are about to have 3 weeks of pain, I’ll be avoiding it. I can’t afford to have trip times blow out as it compromises being able to pick up kids on time from after school care.

[@jaewardtattoo]

What grinded my gears was that there was zero accommodations made for bicycles and if I got caught off guard I would have a 90min+ ride to look forward too. It's 2023, Melbourne buses should have bicycle racks on the front by now

[@Taitset]

Agreed, it's a big problem.

[@Ryzi03]

There's a handful of routes that already have bike racks, being the 510, 512, 683, 685, 686 and 687 but considering four of those six are in the Yarra Valley and not the CBD or suburbs, it's not particularly useful for the general commuter. I don't see any reason why the racks can't be more widespread

[@MeppyMan]

Also love when you use the trip planner and it warns you they disruption “may” impact your trip… surely the planner can know one way or the other. Lol. Also communication through visual design is so very important for things like this. It just smacks of bureaucrats being involved.

[@motwist4796]

A part of me dies inside when I realise there’s going to be bus replacements on my journey. This video was very validating. Thankyou!

[@jalflight3513]

I've heard that the E1s existance was a specific executive intervention from the Member for Eltham responding to community complaints after one of the early occupations didn't have express service at all (along with the particle resurfacing of the bus interchange at Eltham). Perhaps the E1 was so haphazard because it didn't go through the same PTV process? Regardless of why it definitely should have been integrated better and given they had several months to do it, it's a bit baffling.

[@bigadz0r]

What's even more amusing, I am on one of those PTV survey panels, they are constantly sending examples of maps and distribution schedules, replacement bus time tables ect looking for feedback on how readable and effective they are. So they are actually trying, yet this is still the best they have.

[@bigmatty50]

Absolutely gold. I live on the Sunbury line, in our case during upgrades, trains running to Sunshine then we had to find out which buses going to which subsequent stations. Some were express and some were all stops. I believe the scheduling were set up by people that don't generally commute.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

When Sunbury line was closed and Dynon road had construction, it was a nightmare

[@nukichaplin3042]

One of the worst ones for sure

[@bradwconnors]

Love this video. There clearly was no major plan in how the level crossing replacements (which cause the vast majority of line shutdowns) was going to roll out, which i guess was partly because it was a vote winner for Labor. I deliberatley live in a place where i have multiple lines and trams to access within a short enough walk so these don't impact me as much but the poor buggers on the Pakenham line cop it bad. I was in Narre Warren when the "original" skyrial was built and at least the sections from Dandenong to Caulfield were basically all done at once. Now people past Dandenong have had to deal with Hallam, Berwick rebuilds running to different completion timelines and now they do Narre Warren (the station in between) with Beaconsfield on the horizon too. Thats rough. I think the Frankston line has had a similar situation with a big chunk done then smaller projects in between. If you want people to move to PT you need to have a reliable service as often as possible, and you need your bus replacments to be efficient and effective to give people confidence that when replacements happen you wont be adding too much time. Melbourne has constantly failed at this.

[@Taitset]

Absolutely, very well said.

[@Daviesh]

Well said, the worst part of that period was when they had the Frankston line out the same time as the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines AND were still doing Monash Freeway roadworks. It feels like there is no coordination on major projects.

[@CattoRayTube]

Your point about free travel attracting people is a good one - during bustitutions on the Frankston line in 2019/early 2020, I would intentionally travel more because I could get to the NGV on the weekend for free! Plus the route those replacements took was pretty good.

[@lachlantanseytheii4412]

i love how simple your map is but ptv gotta be ptv and complicate the shit out of everything

[@therealsammyvee888]

As someone living on the Pakenham line, we get a lot of bus replacements as you can imagine. As I assume with most other people, my family and I can't stand them, me especially as I have a vision impairment and this already makes it more difficult when travelling alone. So you can only guess how hard it can be for me to get around when there are bus replacements. Luckily I don't usually need to travel on the train a lot, and when I do if there's a bus replacement, I'll usually go from another station like Cranbourne or Merinda Park. Otherwise, thankfully my station (Berwick) has been upgraded very recently with a much better and bigger bus interchange which also has permanent rail replacement bus stops, which makes it slightly easier when there's a line shutdown. But I still hate having to catch a bus replacement. Trains are way better than buses, just generally and also because they're cooler and easier to use (no offense bus fans).

[@andrewrussack8647]

Agreed! Some serious misalignment issues. Nothing worse than just missing your hourly service at Box Hill because the timetable is more important than connection with bustitution bus!! 😱

[@YukeWeiss]

I will always try and avoid bus replacement like anything. It's a special kind of hell and will do any other route to avoid them, including walking several kilometres. Living on the Lilydale Line which saw over 100 days shutdown in 6 months and will have to do it all again next year, I cannot believe how straight up unpleasant it is.

[@danielmolino661]

I have had some interesting scenarios on the Pakenham Line. During August there were works between Pakenham and Dandenong and so to avoid any wait time I caught a replacement Vline bus from Nar Nar Goon instead of a metro from Pakenham. This saved me so much time as after just over an hour I was standing on a platform at Southern Cross waiting for a train. I will note that the Vline bus ran express from Pakenham to Southern Cross but there was no way that I would have gotten there that quickly taking the metro replacement bus to Dandenong and then a train. During January this year trains were only running up to Westall and I needed to get to Monash Uni. Instead of doing the replacement bus and usual bus from Clayton or Huntingdale to Monash, I was using buses at Springvale station and then changing onto another bus to get to Monash. Either way I had to take two buses but with the replacements I had no idea when they would arrive compared to the regularly scheduled buses. On the way home one time I caught the two buses to Springvale and surprised some other students in my class who left at the same time but used the replacement buses as I was already there waiting on the platform at Springvale for the next Pakenham train. This shows that in certain scenarios normal buses can be a decent alternative. I often try to look for the best alternative that will get me to my destination in the best time even if it requires me to leave a little earlier.

[@stormblessed2673]

Man, the Lilydale/Belgrave 3 month shutdown for Union station this year was brutal.

[@gilbydog7350]

It was really brutal. The buses between Camberwell and Box Hill were a nightmare.

[@DiscoveryRoad]

3:12 How to humiliate the company design department in a short few seconds But really, The simple way is just another route map (Hong Kong MTR is actually good at that) and just clearly mark where they stop and how they run parallel Since from what I found, Metro is owned by MTR, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[@Johntrampoline]

Great video! The stupidest bus replacement service I have seen was when they redid the junction at Caulfield during the Glen Huntley level crossing removal and busses replaced Frankston trains between Caulfield and South Yarra but Pakenham and Cranbourne trains continued to run.(even stopping at Malvern during the off peak) It just seems stupid to me because there was no reason why they couldn’t run an altered Pakenham and Cranbourne timetable and have trains stop all stations for a few weeks. The infrastructure is there and the platform lengths are the same for all the stations, plus it would have been a chance to get pictures of HCMTs stoped between Malvern and South Yarra. The only reason I can think they did it was because they already had the buses hired to run between Moorabbin and Caulfield but still I think most people would have much preferred to change to a train at Caulfield.

[@kat.ied.]

Agreed! I was in the same situation. But apparently the HCMTs aren’t permitted to stop at the stations between SY and Caulfield…. apparently haha.

[@Johntrampoline]

I don’t think that’s right because HCMTs do stop at Malvern during the off peak and there is infrastructure that’s been put in place at Hawksburn so that trains can turn around there.

[@kat.ied.]

⁠@@Johntrampolineyes, absolutely agree! This is what I also said in my comment - if you can find it + Martian/Taitset’s reply

[@Johntrampoline]

@@kat.ied.I read you comment and I do agree that maybe 1 or 2 shuttles run by Seimens/Comeng during works would be the perfect solution. Though they would probably only run during the off peak in order to minimise the impact on capacity.

[@tunalifemedia]

They still haven't got any better. They're shutting down Lilydale and Belgrave over the next 6 weeks and I spent over an hour on the phone to P TV. And went into the station to talk to someone. No one could tell me what was happening with the replacement buses. what time and frequencies they were running. And this was the night it's all shut down. It's so hard for young kids to navigate and get themselves to school. If an adult can't figure it out. So I dove my kids to a bus, I put my kids on a normal bus route which was so backed up, with exta people and extra road traffic. The bus was 30min late by the end of the trip. This was a normal bus route. The whole system is stuffed, And as you said in the video they have had plenty of time to get this right and still have no idea what they're doing. But a big shout out to those poor staff that don't get any information and have to deal with everyone who is confused.

[@xaerxohn]

I got an ad for coach replacements on PTV services on this video!!!

[@Taitset]

Haha amazing

[@Tom0482-dg3jw]

Bustitutions have been on the Pakenham and Frankston lines for years. Seems like they won't stop anytime soon. When the train services finally get back up and running, after a few days there is always another cluster of disruptions.

[@harleyhunt6073]

Seems to always happen with extreme heat, and with heavy rain. Signal faults most commonly. In recent times on the Frankston line, there have been a few trains break down or getting stranded on the tracks causing disruptions. I had one, first of the morning on a weekday, the train had to stop, everyone was sent off and replacements called, as train has malfunctions going on with it's signage, and all of the communications equipment. Apparently they had to fix the train there, or couldn't keep going, given they couldn't communicate with the control center. It was an Xtrapolis set too, not an old one.

[@GoldM4official]

So no one is gonna talk about how the buses’s desto board on the thumbnail says ‘Pls Send Help’?

[@Seiskid]

It seems ridiculous that after enduring all that - you have to go through it all again. Same thing has happened on my line numerous times. And probably everyone else's as well. The close it all down forever to rip out a set of boom gates. Then a year later there's another set further down and they do it all over again. Followed by "essential" maintenance six months later. And another set of boom gates. You wish they could concentrated on on line at a time and do the whole thing from beginning to end. Then there's Vline. For the last ten years Gippsland line feels like its had replacement buses on it as much as running trains.

[@tabuoey]

I live on Frankston or Pakenham lines and bus replacements are constant. Even worse when theyre on both lines. They can double transport time. Edit: you guys are getting free biscuits?

[@harleyhunt6073]

I was working through all of the Covid years, and on the frankston line while Carrum, Bonbeach etc were being replaced. Often for me I'd be travelling an additional 90-120 minutes per day. I watched multiple entire TV series, movie franchises and such in the time I was on these replacements. I wish I thought to film and detail the issues with this period. Often I'd catch a replacement bus at Flinders, often at Caulfield, Cheltenham, Mordialloc you'd be required to disembark your bus, walk down the road, and wait for another bus. When lining up, it'd be frequent to be waiting 20-25 minutes, only for the buses to fill, and need to wait ANOTHER 20 minutes for more buses as they couldn't handle the capacity. Infuriatingly when buses did give way to trains at Mordialloc, the connection never allowed anyone to make the train, the VERY FIRST bus of the morning at 4:30am, the train would leave just as the bus was opening doors for us to get off. This was on an empty nepean highway, no traffic to complicate matters. Sometimes on the weekend the next train would be an entire hour later if you missed the connection. Sadly, a person I know was mugged at Mordialloc, while waiting after missing their connection. Besides most of this, stretches of the line, such as between Moorabbin & Mordialloc, would spend large portions winding around various side streets, and meandering through dense school traffic zones full of kids being picked up. I found getting the bus that ran from Cheltenham to Carrum much more effective & direct than using replacement services. Indeed the lack of free service was irritating, trains from Flinders to Mordialloc, then getting a train for 3 more stops, after a good 10+ stops replaced, & inspectors patrolling between Mordialloc & Frankston. I feel for anyone commuting from the Stony Point line to Flinders or beyond during that time.

[@jordanb722]

Yeah, busf replacements were mostly a shitshow on the Lilydale/Burnely lines too. Im fortunate enough to be able to take the E1 as I live in walking distance of ringwood, but that was offen very poorly organised too. There would regularly be 4-5 busses waiting and a huge line of passengers, because the staff managing it wouldnt encourage people to move past doors so multiple busses could load at once, and instead we were bottlenecked by one or two bus doors. Later night bus replacements are a total joke as well. I recall heading home after a night out at 1AM - terminated at camberwell at 1AM, with the next bus due at... *Drumroll*... 3AM. 2 whole hours. I dont even know how they managed that one. The display of distuptions ks awful as well - mixing in 4 or 5 stations with "closed parking" or "broken escalators" with "the whole line is shut down for a month" is a total joke.

[@31tangovictor]

Without deliberately stoking the good ol' Sydney/Melbourne rivalry, watching this video I couldnt help compare it to how they did the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link metro conversion back in 2018 for 8 months. For all of Transport for NSW's foibles, they actually got smart and planned the continuous 8 month shutdown properly with a dedicated fleet of buses (plus dedicated depot), and a big PR campaign with marshalls on the ground plus flyers that were easy to read (not to mention using good ol Li Lin Chin from SBS to do TV ads announcing the shutdown). It meant that when it started, teething issues aside, there was a standard all stops bus plus other special routes that operated during weekdays only that went further than the boundaries of the railway line to spread out commuters and alleviate the extra travel times during peak hours at least.

[@gerrywawra]

Belgrave/Lilydale earlier this year was an absolute nightmare. So bad I started driving to Glen Waverley. Yet we still get constant weekends and some full weeks with replacements. It’s becoming more efficient to drive

[@gilbydog7350]

It was a nightmare, with buses replacing trains between Box Hill and Camberwell. Often whole trains were cramped onto a single bus at Camberwell, which meant half the passengers had to stand up. You'd arrive at Box Hill on the bus, and would have just missed a train leaving Box Hill which meant an additional 15 - 20 minute wait on top of the slower bus. It was a nightmare for more than 3 months.

[@Amazatastic]

Wtf ive never gotten free coffee or biscuits on the Belgrave/lilydale line!! (fr tho the replacement bus between Camberwell and box hill/Blackburn is pure hell)

[@mitazo]

Just another average day in Melbourne's west past 8:30PM

[@hawkermatty5157]

Not a bus replace train story, but a bus replace tram one instead It was just before Christmas last year and I wanted to go into the CBD and do the usual "ohhh Christmas" things. So we drove and parked at a family member's place in St Kilda and decided to take a tram the rest of the way into the city. We were going route 5/64 along Dandenong road into the CBD. Though, we only got so far before we all got shoved off the tram and into a bus replacement. Except by the looks of it there were at least 3-4 trams full of people already waiting for a bus to come ahead of us, so we waited for quite a few buses before getting crammed into one. We unfortunately missed the timing of the chirstmas maze in docklands because of how long we were waiting for the bus for. Fast forward a bit and we are ready to leave at about 10pm, but missed one of the last trams (or from what all available apps were telling us anyways). Ubers being unreliable later, we bit the bullet and caught the 00:13 Sandringham (the entire point of going to St Kilda was to avoid night trains in the first place) to take us a bit into St Kilda. One lovely cold walk down Dandenong Road with little lighting later, we made it back and somehow survived!

[@ashleighevie]

I definitely agree with these issues, as a very experienced user typically travelling in peak hour on the Lilydale line I'm usually able to to make the most of it, but poor connections really take enthusiasm away

[@aidanross471]

I have had to catch sunbury line bus replacements home at night between north melbourne and sunshine and more often than not, the bus arrives at sunshine AS the train is leaving and i’m stuck waiting for 30 mins + till the next train

[@gwokymarla]

Its a systemic issue within PTV, not just the replacement busses. Its basically impossible to find a map showing all the bus routes and Im convinced they themselves don't even know where zone 1 and zone 2 are on the bus network.

[@audreyraj5626]

“Buses will replace trains”. Four words that will make any public transport user rapidly loose their will to live.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

No exaggeration. I've literally walked into oncoming traffic. People underestimate the pain this causes people doing it for weeks on end.

[@shaunclarke94]

But "Metro apologises for any inconvinence caused".

[@sickoslater]

The thing that I don't understand is the fact that the bus replacements run totally seperate to the normal bus services. Why can't they just integrate them as regular bus services in for example the PTV app? Sometimes you literally can't even see if you will be taking a bus or train. Idk how exactly live tracking works, but surely it wouldn't be *THAT* hard to just put a GPS receiver in old buses that don't do live tracking on their own? Actually knowing when a particular bus was going to show up would fix like a lot of my issues with it. Then you could at least *know*when it's going to arrive, sometimes I've literally just waited half an hour before giving up and getting an uber...

[@VhenRaTheRaptor]

Amazingly Auckland manages this...

[@AussieERS]

The bit that gets me is the insufficient number of buses for every train it replaces. One or two buses does not fit the same amount of passengers as a 6 carriage train 🤦

[@andrewrussack8647]

Once took me three hours in lieu of the normal 50 mins to get home on Friday evening due to bustitution and connections with timetabled trains not waiting for bus arrivals!! Grrr.

[@devilpizza123]

I take the train from Diamond Creek. On the first day of the major shutdown, no buses arrived at Diamond Creek station until about 730am. We assume bus drivers coming down from Hurstbridge didn't know they had to come through the Diamond Creek Station carpark and only stopped on Main Hurstbridge road. There ended up being about 50+ people at around 630am waiting for a bus at the car park when I arrived. PTV was called by about 7 people and no one on there end could help. the staff at the station couldn't get in contact with anyone to guide the bus drivers into the station to pick anyone up and were being verbally abused by passengers. I was contemplating taking the 343 from Diamond Creek to Greensborough and just taking a replacement bus there as I had no idea what was going on. Once the bus did arrive, everyone was demanding the bus go express into the city as some of them had been waiting for over 1.5 hours, with many saying they had missed their appointments or were late for work. However it ended up only running express to Eltham, then Macleod. I ended up working from home whenever I could during the shutdown to avoid the shitshow.

[@benespection]

In the 1990s the train replacement buses were just as awful, with massive over crowding, a totally random schedule which usually resulted in waiting 30-50 minutes for a bus only to have several arrive all at once, then sit there for 20 minutes even though they were full, and then usually leave with at least one bus mostly empty for some reason. Poor signage, grumpy staff, and certainly no maps, schedules, pamphlets, free coffee, biscuits, cupcakes or show bags. It really does make you appreciate the normal train service though...

[@JamesErv]

The dreaded replacement bus... Had to use on a couple of months ago between that took us from Mordialloc and dropped us off at Brighton Beach. Like you say, the driver is doing the best they can so I can forgive this situation but boy did he get us in a pickle. The route he'd been given took us through a road work zone with one lane taken out, leaving only 1 lane operational through a small suburban street. The driver completely disregarded the red light at the start of the road work zone and piled through the one lane that was open until oncoming cars started to appear. A few were able to hop on the curb/pull into driveways until we got to an intersection where car drivers coming the other way (and doing the right thing) were not keen on getting out of the way and diverting their own routes, which lead to a number of drivers being stubborn and demanding the bus move. Physics and the close proximity of concrete barriers dictate that the bus literally could not turn or move out of the area so after almost 30 minutes of slowly creeping through and negotiating with drivers to pull off into driveways or onto other side streets we got through. Still made it to the city just on time for where we were going but it was a horrendous PT experience.

[@Taitset]

I've had some similar ones to that! Ended up with a bus stuck at the end of a one-way street in Macleod a few years ago. I've also been on several where I had to give the driver directions.

[@mimidixon6912]

I used to be a rail replacement bus driver. Please go easy on the drivers as many don't know the region very well, coming other part of the city. And let's not forget Passenger Service staff, standing there under the rain, wind and harsh sun, doing their best to help many confused/angry passengers.

[@kat.ied.]

Thanks for the content, as always! Something I want to mention re: replacement buses as someone who travels between South Yarra (SY) and Caufield. Every single time the Frankston trains (which stop at the stations between SY and Caulfield) are not running due to various works, the Cranbourne/Pakenham trains ARE running between SY and Caulfield - however, they of course express right through. It is therefore extremely infuriating, because I KNOW trains actually are running through the stations I need to go to (via the Cranbourne/Pakenham lines on the fancy HCMTs), but instead I’m stuck on a Frankston line replacement bus :( And I know for a fact that the Cranbourne/Pakenham trains CAN stop at these stations between SY and Caulfield, as they used to do so on weekends and still do so whenever there is a random issue. When waiting for replacement buses, the workers would comment on the same thing - as we would be standing at a replacement bus stop, literally watching trains go past the stations we were right near 😅 During these bus replacement times on the Frankston line, I (and many others) end up often catching a Cranbourne/Pakenham train from the city to Caulfield, and then actually backtracking on a bus back towards SY direction - much faster than a bus from the city! Insane stuff. I still don’t understand, and doubt I ever will, why not even one train PER HOUR on the Cranbourne/Pakenham lines can’t stop at the stations between SY and Caufield when they are not being serviced due to the Frankston line being down. I know these lines are some of the busiest in Melbourne, but seems like a fair compromise compared to an excruciating bus ride in peak hour traffic 😢 And in saying all of that, I also know that the Cranbourne and Pakenham lines OFTEN also cop replacement buses at various points on the line - so special shout out to my Cranbourne/Pakenham line comrades, from a Frankston girly ❤😂

[@Taitset]

The issue is that Cranbourne and Pakenham are now 100% operated by HCMT trains, which are not permitted to stop between SY and Caulfiled, as those platforms were never extended to be long enough for them. An easy fix for this would be to just run a different type of train on those days which can stop there - even if it was just a Flinders St-Caulfield shuttle.

[@kat.ied.]

@@Taitset thanks for the reply! But I don’t think this is the case, as the HCMTs do occasionally stop at these stations (was on a train this year that did so, very randomly) since the platforms are long enough. But agreed - a shuttle could work!

[@Taitset]

@@kat.ied. It's certainly the official reason, but probably not actually a physical constraint. There could be other things not directly related to platform length too, like signal sighting etc.

[@kat.ied.]

@@Taitset hmm interesting indeed… would love to see a video on the Frankston line one day! :)

[@PJRayment]

"And I know for a fact that the Cranbourne/Pakenham trains CAN stop at these stations between SY and Caulfield, as they used to do so on weekends and still do so whenever there is a random issue. " Since the HCMT trains have been operating, the Dandenong line trains have never stopped at Hawksburn, Toorak, or Armadale, with the possible exception of emergencies, as they are not allowed to.

[@VRDenshaOtaku]

Wait you got food and gifts? I'n on the frankston line and they don't do that to us. And we have been closed multiple times a month for separate things...

[@Taitset]

A few people are mentioning this, I didn't realise we were getting special treatment out our way!

[@mallenwho]

If the "first day morning stuff up delay" was the same as the Union station first day morning stuff up delay, then it's because the driver scheduled for that first service/s were not yet trained (hah) and qualified for the new section of track, so were not allowed to proceed until a trained driver could supervise them. You'd think they'd plan ahead for that first service.!

[@Taitset]

Yes most likely the same issue, there were empty training runs going through but nothing in service until about 5 hours after the first train was supposed to run! These things are absolutely predictable, and most likely the result of poor communication between departments.

[@Jent1466]

Yea i have been annoyed with the hurstbridge line closures. Still nothing compares to the over 2 years of full closure of Adelaide’s Gawler train line for electrification . Two years with substitute busses taking sometimes 2 hours to reach the city from Gawler and all the while charging customers full fares.

[@darksnakenerdmaster]

I remember once I carried a case of beer all the way to resevoir during a replacement timeframe. Wasn't easy

[@TreFR14]

You think this was bad. Try the Lilydale/Belgrave lines from Feb-May this year, it was all hell. The busses where all insanly crouded, everything was just super unclear about what was happening, and I had to go through the sight of a few people getting bus sick which sucked! This was a great video and prety much adresses every reason why I frown when I see the busses replacing trains sign at the station. Each video is always better than the last. Looking forward to the next video! Also by the way on most other lines the station staff don’t give free bus replacement cookies and coffee which is sad.

[@CalebsCrossings]

The Hurstbridge Line Cookies and cupcakes are halarious

[@CaseysTrains]

Australia: "We're providing Bus Replacements for this disrupted Suburban Train Line." Britian: "We're running trains every hour instead of every 15 mins to allow for work." Most American Cities: "We will give you the chance to have your tickets cross-honored on the local bus system." Philadelphia: "Regional Rail is down........so whatcha gunna do about it?"

[@handyandyaus]

The dreaded bustitution!

[@sandrafowler6717]

I live on the Pakenham and Cranbourne line and have enough of the bus replacements, it's gone on for way too long, and makes the trip longer I think it's not good for the elderly and the disabled.

[@matt4825]

hurtling down the monash in the dark on a standing room only bus was an experince I hope to never repeat in my life. Or how about the time the replacement bus driver needed the help of a passenger with google maps to FIND the station he was driving to? Classic!

[@sandrafowler6717]

My husband also had a bus driver that didn't know how to get to the station he had to get to and a passenger had to give him directions.

[@shaunclarke94]

Another interesting point is that passengers with wheelchairs aren't allowed to board the rail replacement buses. No idea why, as many (but probably not all) of the replacement buses would be accessible. I think they just want to avoid the loading/unloading delays and the extra space they take up. Instead Metro will organise an accessible taxi to take you to the destination station within the disruption. Sounds good in theory, but one time I waited over an hour for a taxi and I ended up being so late. 13cabs kept saying I wasn't at the pickup point, but the station staff quickly said they'd seen me on camera there the whole time. So I guess as bad as the buses are, it can be even worse if you can't even board them lol.

[@Taitset]

Wow, yeah that's extremely bad!

[@shaunclarke94]

@@Taitset granted the issues with the taxis are outside of Metro/PTV's control, but it still sucked.

[@garfieldandfriends1]

As a Singapore transport enthusiast, freebies for the disruption/inconvenience is never hear of here. We'll be surprised if they offer one here. The good thing about our bus replacement service is there is always excess fleet (prioritizing double deckers) with good frequencies and arrangement to another train lines if needed while avoiding the closure during the peak period as much as possible. Mostly early morning or/and late night are affected. When we have buses that arrives every few minutes, timetable is not required at all. All we need to know is where can we alight and take the bus with many ground staff guiding the commuters around. The downsize is the replacement bus still cost fares to ride it (distance based for cards, based on the same distance as the train travels between stations). Funnily, if you're paying cash, the fare is just a flat SGD$1 regardless of the distance/stations (cheaper if you're travelling beyond 3.2km train distance) For breakdown, it's a different story, free bus ride of any services from the bus stop located outside the affected station. Whether there's a special replacement bus deployed for the affected station, it depends on how serious it is, how long it affects the operation, and how much bus resources can they divert to aid the commuters. The differences between planned disruption and unplanned disruption.

[@melbournecrosbie]

"Rant" with suggestions for solutions. How is this even a rant!? Excellent work.

[@redtoadengineering9226]

Can you cover “tram boy”

[@pavementpounder7502]

Im on the Craigieburn line, had to take bus replacements so many times this year...aside from other disruptions. Theyre just always late/inconsistent etc.

[@Skasaha_]

Another fun fact about the PTV journey planner that happens in normal operation: It seems to mostly ignore the suburban passenger rules for V/Line trains that run parallel to electric lines. Frequently the fastest route between the Sunshine-Sunbury stations and Werribee-Laverton stations is to go all the way into Footscray, and PTV's planner will tell you to get on the V/Line for the Sunshine leg unless the connection timing is coincidentally very poor.

[@alexlewis2570]

On my line. If i see people handing out free coffee. It is a dead giveaway of weeks of pain

[@MelbourneRailfan]

I remember that period on the Dandenong group when trains terminated at Oakleigh or Caulfield every weekend, but at least it was for a good cause, the metro tunnel, which is practically complete now also

[@ojw-1]

Captured the grievances of the average PTV goer perfectly. The 3 month long works on the Belgrave line was pain. Normally the train runs to Ringwood first, then replacement buses to boxhill. But once there was a fault in between Belgrave and Ringwood, and I had to catch another set of replacements just to get to the main replacements

[@SydneyCityTransportVlogs]

Sydney is seemingly just as bad when it comes to replacement bus services, with routes making little sense and there just not being enough buses. Our replacement bus services are also given out to any bloke who owns a bus and has a license to drive it, ending up with buses from the 90s, not wheelchair accessible and unreliable, also ending up with coaches on routes that shouldn't have a coach on it, eg the all stops from Sutherland to Redfern having a coach is just illogical. Frequency is a massive issue with the replacement bus service as well, the lack of dedicated bus lanes really means that our replacement buses end up stuck in traffic, but also, how can you expect a trains load of passengers fit onto a 15 min frequent bus, it doesn't compute, lines to wait in are excessively long and when the buses do show up, they end up being at capacity. I'm referring specifically to my line the T4 Eastern Suburbs and Illawarra; where on one such occasion I was waiting for over half an hour for a bus from Central to Sutherland, however that bus ran all stops after Hurstville, meaning it was scheduled to take over 70minutes, the express bus for some reason terminated at the side of a busy road in Kirrawee, (why go the extra km to Sutherland where the bus terminal and layover area is, that this express bus has to travel through to turn around anyway), the next suburb over, a 10-15 minute walk, but was only 40 minutes, somehow saving me time. The routes made no sense and sadly the bus marshalls didn't seem to be able to communicate effectively the issues. Whilst I was waiting over half an hour for my bus home, 1 bus did arrive on my route, however the driver got out and after speaking with the marshall, had to cancel his remaining 4 trips (2 out of Sydney, 2 back in), because he'd been stuck in traffic all day and racked all his driving hours up, he could only drive back to the depot. All in all Sydney and Melbourne can agree on one thing, we both have shitty replacement bus services.

[@TheByzantineEmpire]

If you want to add to your bus repayment rant. Have a look where they are routing busses for the cranbourne pakenham line. How can you bus people in peak traffic to Burnley. With the metro tunnel, originally they were busing people from Caulfield to Burnley. Now they changed it a bit but it’s still horrible.

[@latrobevalleyparanormaldet2157]

Check out the Gippsland line.....this has been going on for at least the last 4 years, if not longer! Pleas make a video about this!

[@CalebsCrossings]

A real nightmare. To any Melbournian, it’s like Sydney found out that they don’t have cool trains and we do, and they go on stri- strike us down and make us take buses…

[@Approvedhalalmemes]

Suburban Passengers: nOooOOoo Illll haVe TO tAKe a Busss fOR a WHole HoUR XPT Passengers: …

[@commentymccommentface9748]

The signage and PIDs are confusing as hell for someone that didnt grow up in Mlebourne. I tried to get to hurstbridge during one of these a constantly had to check Maps that whatever station the trains were terminating at was the one i needed to get on. Unnessarcarily stressful. Hopefully Metro can do some kind of overhaul (or HCMT, Xtrap 2 and newer can show custom route names) of some kind.

[@deviousjupiter8606]

i remember getting to school in the city from eltham during these disruptions.. not fun!

[@dulcinealee3933]

As I tourist visiting to Melbourne - where bus replacement services departed and arrived from in the city was confusing enough!

[@bryanpearce08]

This kind of brings back nightmares of the Gawler Rail Electrification Project in Adelaide. Partial line closures between 2010 and 2012. Several weeks of partial closures in 2017 for a junction upgrade. There were partial closures in 2020 before a full line closure commenced in December 2022. It was spose to reopen in November 2021 but didnt until June 2022. There werent enough replacement buses so for some of the time they hired coaches to supplement the buses. Then if you had a connecting bus at a train interchange your connecting bus didnt have to wait for the rail replacement bus

[@thelonelycmdr6442]

"Please consider alternative forms of transport" WHAT??

[@BTW...]

I find the bus can be very uncomfortable. I cop replacement on the Belgrave line. The temp. terminal station is Ringwood, then the bus. I suspect the route taken is determined by the Private Bus Co contracted to do the work. First round of disruption was often poorly notified... discovering rail out at the platform after descending a huge hill and ramp, and then back up that hill to get the bus at Tecoma was exhausting. During the second round of 'occupation' this year.. for weeks on end ...trains ran 3 carriage - Up to Bayswater, Down to Belgrave. This was a far better.. the only sections disrupted were between Ringwood / Heathmont / Bayswater. Still, you can add at least 30 min to the journey due to that... longer if replacement is from Ringwood to Belgrave.

[@gracelord6476]

The level crossing removal in sunbury was painful. I had to travel to footscray three times a week for the entire period, including winter, and having to get a bus from sunbury to sunshine to get the train three stops down the line was not pleasant in the slightest. All worth it for the traffic flow in sunbury but gosh painful dark nights on the bus as a woman alone are not missed.

[@robvegas9354]

Nothing in Melbourne says it is going to be long day better than the replacement buses signs in the morning. I often wonder where all of these hundreds and hundreds of buses magically appear from on weekdays and weekends to replace the trains.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Now normally when both the Werribee and Sunbury lines are not working. I can use the 216 and 220 bus to get home. HOWEVER! Mid way through the yesr there was severall weeks ehere they were contructing some freeway. This meant that not only was all northern group trains unavailable, but the 216/220 buses would only start from flagstaff not nesr flinders. Bur wait there's more pain! Due to this construction, only a single lane on Footscray road open. So the buses were stuck in massive night time traffic. I know it may seem like a rant, bur when this became my hell for fove nights a week for several weeks. It became a nightmare, i wss tempted to do harmful things. This is no exaggeration, my hatred for replacement buses gives me literal chest pains.

[@simonrussell734]

Agree with everything in this video. When they shut down all the trains serving the west for two weeks because of the Westgate "tunnel" construction, the replacement buses were so slow due to the traffic that it was actually impossible to get to the city. Luckily I could cycle, but I couldn't understand why they didn't put dedicated lanes in place -- the traffic was already bad because of the construction. And the information available was terrible. They really need to get someone to look at the entire customer experience in these situations, and then actually put the changes needed into place. Perhaps they do need to do the replacement buses, but they don't need to do such a terrible job with information beforehand, on platform and in vehicle. But that seems to generally be the issue with Melbourne trains -- it's mostly to do with the information and the way it's presented, not the actual level of service (although that could be improved as well).

[@metropod]

At least they give you stuff as an apology. Most transportation agencies rarely ever go that far. Then again, this is the price of infrastructure. It must be maintained or else lives can be out at risk.

[@Peter-ev2kr]

I like travelling between Newcastle and Sydney when buses replace trains. It's usually a faster journey. Only one time it took 4hrs due to traffic on freeway 😂😂😂

[@GabeTrains]

Can i buy the map please? It is 10x better than the official PTV one.

[@tuvinh5990]

Took me over 2hrs to get to CBD on the weekend due to all bus replacement and poor organising ...usual trip was 45mins. Driving isn't much better either as we all know how bad city driving is...how long would this mess last???

[@dragonfly_closet]

This was so validating. I work weekends on the packenham line, and it's absolutely still like this. I just straight up gave up working out where the buses are even going this weekend, and will probably just pay an exorbitant amount for an über instead...

[@86_beans]

An accurate account of the confusion. When I lived down that way, I used to feel it weird that Sandringham passengers were dumped at Parliament by buses. I mean, the trains don’t even go via the loop but PTV would leave you in the middle of Spring Street just during the disruptions. Then we’d need to make our own way back to Flinders Street.

[@jonom9583]

The maps for the Belgrave/Lilydale line shut down at the start of 2023 were much better! The express bus from Ringwood was also quicker than the regular train service some days 😅

[@jouebien]

hmm centre aligned text too. PT Vic: are your notices, poems or songs? no? then text alight left or justified - because readability/accessibility is important.

[@charleyhew6402]

Back when the pakenham line was down in 2018-2019 you would get off a replacement bus and they would hand out free public transport cards that’s lasted about 15 days and could be used on anything within zone 1

[@comedyzone]

Melbourne needs to take a page from TTC in Toronto... of course that's all owned by the government there so it works better. Buses arrive very frequently, many of them being under used to ensure passengers keep moving. Given they're all owned by one entity, they can internally manage last minute requests for buses or plan better for future outages. Our separation of companies has meant that Metro needs to contract buses ahead of time, which they cheapen out on or try to get a last minute hire during an outage. For example, the last outage I was forced to endure, a single bus was sent to WESTALL station to pickup passengers from the then three (3) trains that had dropped passengers there because of signalling faults, and that one bus took about an hour to arrive after the faults first occurred. It was a 26c day and it was around 3:30pm meaning that there were lots of people forced into this old bus with no AC after standing around for over an hour, with 70% or more of the displaced passengers being left behind. Melbourne has a great system, from an infrastructure perspective. But the way it's managed and the lack of reactive flexibility that the companies have trying to work with each other (Metro, Yarra Trams and the various bus companies) means that we look like a hot mess when anything goes wrong.

[@SirDragonClaw]

I am feeling this on the Cranbourne line loads lately, all this week its a 3 hour commute each way if I want to go to work...

[@SuperSkullz27]

don't know what's more annoying: the Belgrave line is constantly closed for improvement works, seemingly timed to coincide with me starting Uni, or not getting a Belgrave line-themed show bag/cookie ;(.

[@jfwfreo]

Brisbane does a good job of rail-replacement buses IMO. Its easy to find where you need to get the rail-replacement bus and all the times I have used it its been easy to figure out which bus you need to board to get where you are going. And they have good signage at stations and good announcements on trains and at stations. Also for some longer-term shutdowns (specifically when certain stations are closed for total rebuilds) they have clear branding for the "StationLink" bus that links from nearby stations to the closed station.

[@jmckenzie962]

That's extremely baffling to me that they don't have a special colour for bus replacements and just show them as train services. Here in Wellington, Metlink use a magenta-looking colour to denote services that are being replaced by buses.

[@Low760]

How can we have bus replacements down when the contractors keep changing from big country like ventura with decently serviced buses to blow in companies buying worn out ex perth, ex national bus merc 0405s and man cb30s with millions of kms on them to start with?

[@andrewrussack8647]

I jumped on a train at FSS late-ish one evening when Burnley Group services were not using the loop. An arriving passenger did not get off, obviously expecting for the train to continue around the loop via SSS. You should have seen the confusion of his face when the train started back from whence it had come! Incredibly poor customer service with no platform announcements!!

[@drhandle4498]

Melbourne had practice with replacement of trains by buses in 1979 - the first couple of weeks of secondary school for me involved learning to navigate train commuting, and the replacement buses between Greensborough and Macleod. There were no online notices or timetables back then - I was informed that I'd better take a walk to the station to ask for a timetable to work out when I had to leave home. There was no practice commute with a parent - I was told that I could always do a practice run by myself the week before school started, and if I couldn't figure it out, well, trains ran on rails, so I wouldn't get lost, I could just get off at the next stop and come back the other way. Parents seemed to be a bit more relaxed about kids going free range back then. (I feel that this is the point where I should point out that I had to walk to the station every morning in the dark through the snow uphill both ways in my summer uniform...)