Talkernate History - Gods and Generals

[@TrentWalker]

"I got a fifteen dollar gold piece in my pocket..." haha, I was really surprised when you mentioned my role in your show! It was a great movie to shoot for four months, but I liked my role as the "fightin' for my rats" rebel prisoner in Gettysburg a little better. Actually I was very lucky to be cast in both films! Thanks for Ron Maxwell and the casting director Joy Todd. Keep up the awesome work on Talkernate History. I'll be listening to more!

[@TalkernateHistory]

Reading this was a joy for both of us. Thank you so much. We hadn't realized you were in Gettysburg. We need to do a re-watch. We also looked at your IMDB and saw you were in one of our favorite films, Demolition Man. And not just that, but you were in the "My Boggle" scene, a scene that's very dear to both of our hearts. If you're interested, we'd love to ask you about your experiences in these films as part of an informal interview. If this is something you're interested in, email us at [e-mail] and we'll go from there.

[@SStupendous]

@@TalkernateHistory At 15:25, a bit of trivia, those soldiers in Continential uniforms aren't in them because it's what they had, it's because they were a ceromonial regiment - in the same way we have regiments today that are similar.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Yknow, when I woke up this morning, I didn’t except to see the “fightin’ for mah rats” guy’s comment on a KZbin video about Gods and Generals. And yet here we are.

[@SStupendous]

@@warlordofbritannia I did, given every video about the film gets neo-confederate hordes drawn to them.

[@blucheer8743]

Awesome!

[@IronPiedmont]

That scene in Gettysburg where those soldiers were surrounding and cheering for General Lee, that was unscripted. that day when they were filming, that was the first time the Confederate reenactors saw Martin Sheen dressed as General Lee and they went nuts over it. That is why Martin Sheen looked a little freaked out in that scene.

[@ravenknight4876]

He should have owned it.

[@ferda9476]

@@ravenknight4876 I dunno, Lee seemed to be pretty stoic and "proper". Hood or A.P. Hill would have owned it, but I can totally see Lee reacting in a more muted way.

[@thomasbrennan6303]

@@ravenknight4876 I think he did! Sheen was great as Lee in that film.

[@Knightstruth]

Somebody needs to get those reenactors some Robert E. Lee bodypillows.

[@nathancausby4406]

​@@thomasbrennan6303Sheen did alright but Duval looked and I believe that he probably sounded just like Lee. Possibly even had the same mannerisms. In a behind the scenes piece. Duval says something about being related to Lee

[@bobbemis8911]

"You cant make a 1st person shooter where the main weapons are muskets" war of rights has already done that

[@dragonsword7370]

That history channel game was awesome with that. Then theres that time jumpers one where in the beginning in the civil war it was muzzle leaders but then later you get severe nodding that is crazy! Or forgoing the prime directive costuming and just massacre whole platoons with a scifi assault rifle in the cornfield battle. That also sent you to pompei with a full future weapons load against legionaries and that was hilarious Ps. History channels civil war: nation divided and Darkest of Days is the crazy one fun one.

[@theequalsgamer2074]

6la here

[@x999uuu1]

Its 3rd person but Mount and blade nap wars did too

[@fredbreadbun6277]

@@x999uuu1 You can go into 1st person.

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

exactly what i say!

[@ArmadilloMan]

I think one needs to keep in mind that the watermelon of the 1860s was not the watermelon of today. It used to be much tougher and have way more seeds (which have since been bred out) so this guy's feat is even more impressive than you think.

[@patavinity1262]

In fact parts of it weren't even really edible.

[@SStupendous]

I'm guessing it's what's on the inside that counts? Because there are pictures of watermelons back then which look just like ones now.

[@thomasbrennan6303]

I'm old enough to remember when watermelons had seeds. I'm glad the horticultural evolution to seedless occurred.

[@Davis_237]

If you watch Jeff Daniels in Gods and Generals then in Gettysburg, Union Army life does wonders for ones physical fitness..

[@Zarastro54]

Yeah, it de-ages you by like a decade!

[@ShahjahanMasood]

@@Zarastro54 oh my god! (in a joseph voice)

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

One burns more calories than he consumes throughout that war.

[@briancundiff5282]

Dysentery and forced marches do wonders.

[@strangerinwhite]

@@briancundiff5282 ROTFL

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

Glory had baseball in the opening. That is what makes it a superior film to Gods And Generals.

[@luisdavila1236]

Ah, it's like I'm at the pictures again with these moving frames.

[@Ridgwaycer]

Are you listening to it on the Wireless?

[@BELCAN57]

Regarding loyalty to a State vs loyalty to the Central Government, Shelby Foote said it best: " Before the Civil War folks would say 'the United States are ' (meaning the primacy of the State) and after they'd say ' the United States is" (primacy of the Central Government).

[@paulcochran1721]

The Civil War made "Us" an "Is" - Even typing it out I can hear Shelby's voice !

[@VineFynn]

More like going from adjective plural to just a noun.

[@TomFynn]

I watched Gettysburg and found myself totally engrossed in the movie and re-watched it several times. When Gods and Generals came out I thought "Oh goody, more of the same". I did not make it through the movie and have no plan ever to give a go again.

[@LNER4771]

Funny you should mention Jefferson C. Davis, as he was my 4th-great grandad's first cousin. They enlisted together during the Mexican War, but 4GG was sent home due to dysentery. JC Davis then joined the artillery and served under Major Anderson at Fort Sumter. 4GG, meanwhile, helped raise a company of cavalry for the 4th Iowa Volunteer Cavalry regiment, served as its captain, led a raid against a saltpeter works in Arkansas, and saw action from Vicksburg to Newport.

[@conhallows]

Wow. Great story. You should do an article on your ancestor

[@thomaseastmond7184]

55:25 look up War Of Rights. It’s a first person shooter based on the Antietam campaign. It accomplishes this by actually forcing the player to engage in Napoleonic Tactics.

[@TalkernateHistory]

That seems very interesting. I never played it, but there's a multiplayer Napoleonic mod for Mount and Blade that's supposedly really good too.

[@DrLennieSmall]

@@TalkernateHistory Multiplayer DLC! You can command a unit or a soldier.

[@oshaqsha9826]

War of rights got better when they added the “In Formation” and flag spawning mechanic, before that it was nothing but people running around like idiots. That being said, as much as I want to like the game, the game is dead unless you join a regiment, and so many of these groups are so elitist and - dare I say - toxic. If you don’t show up to every drill they won’t hesitate to kick you out of their servers, even though the shit they teach there is never used because, surprise, the people in charge have no idea how to actually fight a battle... a game with so much potential is ruined by losers who want to feel important and look down on people.

[@michaelwilliams7292]

@@oshaqsha9826 thats a shame I was interested in joining once they got caught and artillery mechanics worked out

[@doublepoet7852]

@@TalkernateHistory war of rights has only gotten better

[@pennsylvaniaboss9611]

41:42 "I don't think there was confederate Irish units" Joseph Kelly's confederate Irish brigade: Am I a joke to you?

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Correct. Was there another?

[@laserprop]

@@mrsnakesmrnot8499 The 17th Virginia Infantry had two Irish companies, Companies G (The Emmett Guard) and I (The O'Connell Guards). www.fairfaxrifles.org/history.html Undoubtedly there were additional individual Irishmen scattered throughout this regiment, and of course in many, many other Union and Confederate units.

[@tyrian_baal]

8th alabama infantry!!?!?!

[@hilaryc8648]

Man, there wasn't a single convincing beard in either of these movies. They even managed to make the occasional real ones look fake.

[@thevoid4060]

Damn, I didn't know Stonewall's class was a never-ending purgatory of the same lessons, word-for-word

[@csfarnsworth14]

Word-for-word

[@thevoid4060]

@@csfarnsworth14 word... for word

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

What for what?

[@manuelalejandrolopezrodrig3786]

If a cadet asked major Jackson a question, he just repeated the lesson again, then if the cadet had still doubts and asked again Professor Jackson considered it as an offesnse

[@catherinekelly532]

At VMI? Ya had to go there!!

[@MrLukasboys]

Every time you upload it feels like I am coming home to a freshly cooked delicious meal ready to be eaten. Just that editing of Gods and Generals into a cinema in the beginning is already so nice, I pity people who don't watch these videos but only listen to them as a podcast.

[@albdamned577]

There's a couple of Confederate officers that wrote about Jackson's lemons, they had no clue where he kept getting them! I dont think any magic is a foot, its just really funny that something like that is a mystery.

[@catherinekelly532]

there was no citrus shortage. Florida Was a CSA State!

[@albdamned577]

@@catherinekelly532 He spent most of the war in Northern Virginia, just randomly finding lemons to suck on in the Shenandoah valley. It wasn't during the times of heavy blockades/still had trade, but he seemed to always find that commodity.

[@tacomancers12356789]

18:05 "there's a lot of drilling and its boring" Due to my foreparents being notorious pack rats, we still know quite a bit abt my ancestor who served and I happened to find a book, written by one of the surviving veterans, abt his unit (90th Ohio Volunteer Infantry) and made the mistake of reading through it. Its formatted weirdly, like half of it was a journal/diary and the other half was a regular book abt the unit and where it served. Also abt 85% of the entries were "We drilled today and did nothing else"

[@wendeln92]

" made the mistake of reading through it..." Gee I wish I had that problem of having an ancestor's regimental history to "mistakenly" read. Must suck.

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

This channel deserves so much more love. This video is brilliant. Bravo you two.

[@samuelkatz1124]

Hey Matt and Max! I work for a Hearts of Iron 4 mod called The New Order: Last Days of Europe. we launched last month and I'd love to give you guys the chance to cover it like you did with Kaiserreich.

[@cjrecio5702]

I really hope they cover it someday.

[@MrAlex_Raven]

2:00 I will note also General Lewis Armistead played by Richard Jordan was another fantastic acting performance, especially in the context and conviction of Jordan; a dying man, playing a dying Armistead who regretted what came to pass at the battle; potentially killing his friend and dying himself leaving potentially no one to remember either of them. It really is a great sorrowful moment of the movie, far more touching than even the best moment in Gods and Generals (which I still like but definitely pales in comparison sadly to Gettysburg).

[@natem.9208]

Moving images? IN TALKERNATE HISTORY???

[@thescottishnerd]

What next. A ME-262

[@texastea.2734]

Heresy !

[@scottythompson8098]

I swear every couple of months, I always came back to watch this video since it came out. Legends

[@robertdiethrich6775]

There is a brief scene between Grant and Sherman at Shiloh in "How the West was Won." That is the only Shiloh scene I can recall in film

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

This is the finest video on Gods and Generals. Beautiful video. ❤️

[@TalkernateHistory]

Thank you!

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

@@TalkernateHistory - Absolute pleasure!

[@merrymerryjerry6736]

On the subject of the Gods and Generals video game - it's even worse than you would think when it comes to the single-shot rifles, because there is no reloading mechanic, so you have to pick up an entirely new rifle every time you shoot.

[@felipebrito4656]

You guys are awesome! Keep the videos coming, guys. Big fan from Brazil

[@citizenVader]

Those boys are well fed for a civil war movie.

[@kmaher1424]

Reenacting is a hobby for the mature and the prosperous

[@citizenVader]

@@kmaher1424 so practically a kind larping fetish for the helplessly delusional underachiever who is going for the cake, but remembers his teeth got lost in a freak rimmirng incident

[@Marylandbrony]

I was bursting of laughter when you said "District of contamination". It has been the best laugh i had in a month.

[@flamingeskimo1136]

The Return of the Kings. Absolutely love this episode, and the movie is so schlocky it's brilliant. Can I reccomend an episode on either "Fear Loathing and Gumbo", "Worldwar" or "The war that came early"? Thanks so much guys, and keep up the good work

[@TalkernateHistory]

I have "Fear Loathing and Gumbo" bookmarked. I've been wanting to read it for a while and I eventually will. I think Matt is going to hard pass on Worldwar, because of the aliens. But I'm cautiously curious about it. I took a break on The War That Came Early on the book "Two Fronts" a few years ago, and I haven't gotten back into it yet. From what I've read so far, it could make a good episode.

[@flamingeskimo1136]

@@TalkernateHistory yeah, tbh Worldwar is a very fun read but it gives up any pretence of alternate history by the end of the 2nd book. But Fear Loathing and Gumbo might well be the best alternate history I've read in a long time

[@95keat]

I remember back on the ps2 the history channel made a civil war video game that was pretty good. Had a bunch of muzzle loaded guns but also a few advanced ones like one you reloaded through a pole in the stock. After a while however it just became more efficient to bayonet charge everyone

[@dinobotful]

Or use a repeating rifle. Like Henry Spencer rifle.

[@bobwalsh3751]

YES! Civil War: Secret Missions

[@ignitetheinferno1858]

10 interesting facts about the movie, book and history for anyone interested: 1. I knew a few of the reenactors who were in the 20th Maine scenes and according to them, there was an additional ten minutes of Chancellorsville they filmed for May 3rd from Hancock's POV in which they repulse several Confederate attacks. 2. My friends had heard that _The Last Full Measure_ would be filmed from the Union viewpoint. So each movie of the trilogy would be G&G would have the Confederate view, _Gettysburg_ be balanced and TLFM would be Northern. Obviously, the last movie never happened so we can not be sure if this was really the plan. 3. Lee's family were all against his leaving the United States Army and tried talking him into staying but he refused. 4. Winfield Scott Hancock was a main figure in the book. John Wilkes Booth wasn't even in the book and if you cut him from the film, you could have used that time to see the Battle of Williamsburg and his friendship with Armistead. Both happened in the book and Williamsburg was a Union victory near Richmond. 5. Jackson planned on launching a night attack on December 13th against the Union soldiers in his front at Fredericksburg. They were to strip to their waists, carry knives and wear white scarves around their arms. His staff talked him out of this mad plan. 6. Chamberlain's opening scene in the book is him and his brother Tom hunting in the Maine forest in the dead in winter. 7. Janie Corbin (the little girl) was a real person and she and Jackson did become friends before her death to scarlet fever. 8. Jackson was such a boring teacher that the Cadets of VMI despised him and at least one challenged him to a duel. 9. In the book, Jackson tries to convince the Cadets that war is not a glorious thing but gives up once he realizes no one is listening to him. 10. Chamberlain and his regiment missed Chancellorsville because of a outbreak caused by a tainted smallpox vaccine they had been given as part of Hooker's attempts to bring up the health of the Army of the Potomac.

[@mikemillette4936]

Maxwell did mention that during production. This was to be the Confederates emergent, Gettysburg was already the turning point and last full measure would be the Union victorious. Because I pretty much describes the Eastern theater in a nutshell.

[@Cityinlead]

Damn, actual clips instead of stills and pictures, definitely gave a better flow if you ask me

[@TalkernateHistory]

Thank you! It was a bit daunting figuring out how to do it. But I'm glad it ended up enhancing the experience

[@Linesweeper]

Any chance to get an episode centered on the great Northern war? There's a fair amount of good movies in both Russian and Swedish about it

[@TheyTalkOnline]

Does ayone remember tv-series "North & South" ?

[@Urlocallordandsavior]

They actually showed the picnickers in the Battle of Bull Run scene too.

[@thepapistyourmotherwarnedy752]

My mom, sister and I binge the SNOT out of that! although I nitpick the heck out of the historically innacurate women's wardrobe I give it kudos for casting Patrick Swayzee, an actual Southerner in it and the fact they showed the Great Scedaddle at Manassas/Bull Run

[@thevoid4060]

Is that the one with Johnny Cash playing John Brown?

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@thevoid4060 Correct.

[@catherinekelly532]

very wanting!

[@jasonshaneyfelt1039]

"How does one commit treason against the state of Nebraska?" Me, a Nebraskan currently serving a life-sentence for throwing out half a container of Ranch dressing from Runza: Boy, have I got a story to tell you!

[@bradluke8107]

What you said about that tour guide who met Gettysburg veterans was pretty cool. I live about an hour from Vicksburg so me and my dad would visit the National Park a lot and on one occasion my dad managed to get a pilot friend of his to come with us. His friend was a WW2/Korea veteran and had also grown up in Vicksburg in the 20s and 30s so had met Confederate veterans in his childhood. It was a pretty cool trip and we got a unique tour of the park from someone who had met soldiers who had fought there plus a lot of stories from WW2/Korea. I just wish I had paid better attention because looking back I can barely remember any of the stories he told.

[@johngreen3543]

When you are young you do not ask the good questions that need asking. By the time you grow up it becomes too late because the person who would know has died. That is the heartache of the passage of time. I once wore a authentic doughboy's uniform of WW1 which was owned by an old man whose yard I mowed as a young man. All I could do was ask dumb questions about it. Today at 73, I have a lot of things about it that I wished I had asked.

[@taltoskieron]

I will simp for more civil war history

[@theronnett]

A great Civil War video game that has come out is War of Rights. Extremely solid.

[@pennsylvaniafellow4409]

My one friend wanted to get me to watch this movie and Gettysburg in a row. We ended up splitting it up and watching Gettysburg first (Something that likely saved my life). Gettysburg was fine, I believe. Gods and Generals was very entertaining to watch for the first half as we riffed it then we experienced a slow decline into brain death.

[@matthintz9468]

From start to finish I really enjoyed Gettysburg. Not a perfect film, of course, but it had heart and direction. The screenplay of Gettysburg evoked more of a natural feel - they were able to script dialogue that either captured the tenor of the characters, or massaged famous quotes into more natural conversation. When speeches were given, they were well paced and had an organic quality to them. Even when Jeff Daniels speaks to the 2nd Maine prisoners he makes clear to his brother that it was meant to stir them so he wouldn't have to execute them. Gettysburg gave you the sense that people were people, and while it did romanticize the South in some ways, it wasn't done to the extent of their cause. But then, as you note, the scope of the film was narrower and it didn't have to get into that topic, although it is made clear, because of Daniels, that the mission of the Union Army was to set "other men free" - which was true, but also a bit romanticized. Gettysburg also had better music, better battle sequences, and despite being 45 minutes longer than Gods and Generals, it really flowed. There was good tension and good pacing all the way through, even in scenes where Martin Sheen recites a prayer, or has a quiet conversation, there was always a point. Gods and Generals was a major disappointment, in nearly every conveicable way. Most of the score wasn't memorable, nor did it seem to fit most of the movie (exceptions being the music for the Union training montage and the Chancellorsville attack). The point where they chose to start the film was curious, as it ignored the firing on Ft. Sumter. While I appreciate the opening song by Mary Fahl, and I actually really like the meaning behind it, it set such a slow tempo to an even more poorly paced film. The film is good awful in its pacing. The scene where Jeff Daniels and Miro Sorvino are having their argument just goes on and on with lots of pauses and for no reason! The dialogue feels like it was written for the stage in a different time - unnatural and lacking realism. Badly missed was Tom Berenger, who was something of a key focus in Gettysburg, and Martin Sheen's Robert E. Lee. These characters were written better in the previous film, and I got a sense of what they were feeling and thinking in the smallest expressions, pauses, and exchanges. Robert Duvall is a wonderful actor, but he's wasted here and the acting of nearly everyone in the film, save for Kevin Conway, Matt Letscher, Jeff Daniels and Stephen Lang, felt like a made-for-tv film. The question of slavery, the way slaves were treated and the entire insitution was so white washed that I'm still, even to this day, astounded by how awful it was. The movie about getting this movie made might be interesting to watch. Leaving Antietam out of the theatrical release just further insensed me, since it further skewed the movie toward a neo-Confederate Lost Cause bent. A few good things do exist. Stephen Lang was amazing, despite poorly written dialogue. I really enjoyed some of his smaller moments in the film, like with his wife or his students. Lang deserved better. I would have loved to have seen him play both Jackson and Pickett, since the latter only appears two or three times and never with Jackson. The Fredericksburg sequence was mostly good, shitty CGI aside. I liked the muted colors and winter setting, as well as the urban combat. And, I'm not embarassed to say that I enjoyed Jeff Daniel's little speech (which was quoted from a Roman historian, not Julius Caesar). There was good tension building there, and I liked how the shot of him was mostly framed with his brother, Kilrain, and the other officers looking on. The Mary Fahl song I mentioned, just not the way it was used, and I think they missed an opportunity to use the melody of that song in some of the score. The Union training montage was good. Oh, God, what else... the cornfield sequence for Antietam was good. That's really about it. Everything else sucked or was insulting. And what further pisses me off, more broadly, is that the same people who made Gettysburg, which was a good movie, made this POS and that derailed really any chance we had to get the Last Full Measure. How cool would have it been to see Cold Harbor, the March to the See, the capture of Richmond, the surrender and grand review? Sorry about the length of this. I'm been holding that in for a while.

[@asajjy]

This made me laugh so hard that I took the flintlock outta my mouth

[@jd.3493]

In Ken Burns’ The Civil War, Shelby Foote specifically says that before the civil war everyone identified with a state, but after the war they identified with the USA

[@thehistorybard6333]

Chickamauga was the _only_ major Confederate victory in the Western Theater

[@BradanKlauer-mn4mp]

And if Longstreet had not arrived or if Rosecrans had not needlessly opened that gap, Chickamauga would have gone down as a U.S. victory and Atlanta would have fallen.

[@imgvillasrc1608]

​@BradanKlauer-mn4mp Shows how terrible Bragg was as a general. Man needed two miracles, Longstreet's arrival and Rosecrans' mistake, just so he could eek out a victory.

[@imgvillasrc1608]

​@BradanKlauer-mn4mp Shows how terrible Bragg was as a general. Man needed two miracles, Longstreet's arrival and Rosecrans' mistake, just so he could eek out a victory.

[@charlietheanteater3918]

26:48 There’s no way that shot was actually in the extended editon right? I’ve only seen the theatrical version, and I’ve seen some of the extended bits of Antietam on KZbin, I don’t remember seeing that shot anywhere.

[@MayoFilms83]

Just subscribed hope you guys do more videos like this. I saw the 25th Screening of Gettysburg in 2019 in Pa at the theater that showed the premier of the film for the remaster cut. Love both of the movies good review.

[@TalkernateHistory]

Nice! Thank you! The next episode is about a short story compilation, so it won't be as visually interesting as this one. But there will certainly be some moving images worked into that one where possible.

[@MayoFilms83]

@@TalkernateHistory I just watched the movie today since it's the anniversary of First Manassas.

[@albdamned577]

The stars and bars was designed by an Austrian, the white and red resembles Austria flag, with the “American” blue section and stars

[@MrGone0608]

52:59 there is actually a miniseries about the civil war. They even mention the air ballon core.

[@TheMann_YT]

Martin Sheen > Robert Duvall CHANGE MY MIND!!!

[@thevoid4060]

The Mann Duvall looked more like Lee, but Sheen gave him character

[@jewishqueenrebecca3943]

I like how Sheen went from a Confederate general in Gettysburg to the President of the US in the west wing 3-4 years later

[@katamariroller2837]

THERE IS NO TIME!

[@mattmiller7049]

Duvall is actually related to Robert E. Lee but I agree, Sheen plays him better.

[@chrissmith3668]

Butter Pikmin exactly how I felt. I like Martin Sheens portrayal better but Duvall looked just like him

[@sjsabattis]

Finally you uploaded again I love your videos!

[@Outstralian]

I don't know why but the thumbnail makes me laugh every time

[@albdamned577]

The reason why they call it Washington city, was at the time there was other municipalities in the district, like Georgetown.

[@icecoldpolitics8890]

Al B Damned the reason they say it’s silly is because a detail like that really doesn’t matter and the fact that everything in this movie is so historically driven that ruins the movie.

[@mathensful]

This is a funny and entertaining review. I saw Gods & Generals in the theater with my Dad when I was in college. I was THIS close to sitting down and watching it again before I was painfully reminded of how over the top and dreadfully LONG this film was. If I had to do it over again, I might have chosen instead to have my left arm sawed-off and die of pneumonia 6 days later. Dad? I'm so sorry I put you through it. Please forgive me!

[@ClassicRockLivesOn]

Wow, I've never heard of this KZbin channel before, and just by coincidence I watched Gods and Generals for the first time yesterday. I guess I'm gonna have to watch this too.

[@patriotcam1776]

Gods and Jackson. Lost cause myth rammed down our throats.

[@catherinekelly532]

The causes of Principle are Never Lost Causes! Remember that. Look at Pastor John Weaver [on Confederate pows etc]

[@albdamned577]

There’s no way someone like Chamberlain would wear a mustache as a professor in New England at that time. He grew it out for the war and kept it after

[@albdamned577]

@@datguitarplayer1656 So I do not know motives of him exactly, I have seen a photo of Chamberlain shortly before the war, clean shaven like a school boy. Back in that day a lot of the intellectual folks that ended up in the military as officers grew one for manly pride. This is my opinion, true to varying degrees I am sure, he never really left the military mindset behind after the war. I kind of get it, he was seriously injured a bunch of times, including the bladder injury that left him impotent (that most likely caused issues between he and his wife). Its clear he experienced PTSD to some extent too. You can see his military mindset in the way he returned to Bowdoin and how involved he was in military affairs after the war (he tried to go to Cuba in the Spanish American war). That mustache he maintained is pretty typical officer mustache for the 19th century. Over all opinion during the time and place was that a mustache was somewhat of a tough guy thing, not the something usually found on a refined and dignified rhetoric professor.

[@ShahjahanMasood]

Is it me or has the overall sound quality drastically improved?.

[@DrLennieSmall]

They've slowly been improving over the years.

[@Isaaxz123]

I could never understand what you mfs mean when you talk about sound quality. I could hear it fine in all the other episodes, idk what's different about this one.

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

55:26 the video games war of rights and mount and blades napoleonic wars want to have some words with you

[@MrMiniman629]

It's sad that there is a movement to retcon Ken Burn's Civil War Documentary right now...

[@TalkernateHistory]

That really is sad.

[@BradanKlauer-mn4mp]

It’s a disgrace (the movement, not the documentary).

[@tobisscootering8854]

I don’t know what to put here because nobodies put any memes relating to the episode yet

[@thescottishnerd]

Ummmmmmmmm the tea pod dome scandal

[@tobisscootering8854]

the Scottish nerd kamehameha2000 tea pot dome

[@heatherwheeler8330]

Edit , the channel is Atun-Shei Films, his channel is very good and informative, he used to be a reactor and guide for historical downtown Louisiana tours.

[@tecumsehcristero]

My Dad who still refers to himself as a Virginian, even though he's lived in Chicago for 40 years, loves this movie.

[@SpiralingUniverses]

Does he think that the Civil War was about "States rights"?

[@kiplingwasafurry1108]

8:10 “your brain has become addled, you brain has become Adelberted.” Funny, the main character in my alternate history story is named Adalbert.

[@kyleschafer6275]

Around the 42:00 mark, its true, there was an engagement of Irish vs Irish at Fredricksburg. And yes, when the union army entered the town, they sacked the town.

[@BXRDIGITAL]

I don't know why everyone thinks that every southern soldier was pro slavery and that every union soldier was anti slavery. Both are incorrect.

[@FriscoDojenia]

"A Plot Against America" is my recommendation for you guys to talk about

[@thomaslyne3243]

It should be noted that “sightseers” at Bull Run were three, or four, miles away from the actual battle.

[@cadenc.6890]

Any chance y’all will ever do the Gettysburg movie?

[@deejayreynolds8172]

I've have been wanting an Antietam film since seeing Glory. I'm not a screen writer but I know how I'd want the trailer to go. Start with men walking through cornfield, its misty and they hear these snaps and buzzes around. Someone screams out in agony. Then shows them emerging from the cornfield into the men in gray lined up across the road. Cut to the Irish brigade topping a rise to see a field littered with dead and the Confederates entrenched in the bloody lane. Then show some scenes from the west woods and officers standing around planning and a soldier finding Lee's plans. Then it ends with a wide shot of troops trying to cross burnside bridge being shot falling into the creek Union soldiers firing from the bank and Confederate soldier falling from the cliffs on the other side. Cut to ANTIETAM all in white then left to right turning red like blood flowing through the creek that day

[@yitzhakgoldberg2404]

38:00 min. in; I'd be interested in what changes he made to the book.

[@TalkernateHistory]

I think Matt said this guy suggested that Joshua Lawrence Chamberlin should be made one of the main characters. Allegedly, in the early draft, he was either more minor, or not in the book at all.

[@kmaher1424]

The book was written as a prequel ti the 2nd book. It featured the main characters of thar book (filmed as Gettysburg) plus Stonewall Jackson. For example it opened with Lee on leave handling Arlington, inherited by his wife. Since he is nearby the president asks him to deal with whatever is happening at Harper's Ferry. The first book shows assorted officers and two teachers (chamberlain and Jackson) as the war threatened All that civilian enthusiasm about secession? Invebted for the movie... There were too many changes to detail

[@miguelencanarias]

At 0:15 I started screaming at my laptop, and was about to throw it out the window when I realized that you were being sarcastic, thank God! Guys, don't abuse our fragile sensitivities like that, put an Arial Black 90 blinking warning on the screen, saying "SARCASM!!" or people might miss the great review that this video turned out to be.

[@ANProductionsOfficialChannel]

55:24 War of Rights begs to differ

[@wafl423]

can you do a podcast on the TNO mod from hoi4

[@bobbemis8911]

That shit is a mess

[@arnantphongsatha7906]

Their riff on it would be glorious

[@grundergesellscahftmkii6196]

That would be something tbqh

[@IvyLeather13]

17:07 Max has a unique skill for making historical events sound just as stupid as they seem lol.

[@davidmeehan4486]

I like my sister's idea, a Civil War video game where no matter what you do as the CSA, you can never win.

[@TheSaiyanLink]

Damn they really thought putting an entire Confederate Christmas section in the movie was good storytelling. Which, idk, maybe someone out there could suprise us and make a decent movie out of that. Gods and Generals certainly did not execute it properly.

[@t.c.thompson2359]

Well they just don't get that once you have "slave owner" on your resume, no amount of backstory can make you look like a hero again.

[@t.c.thompson2359]

Especially if you killed your countrymen to keep your slaves.

[@cjrecio5702]

If you guys like to cover a cold war scenario between the Allies and Axis I recommend that you guys check out these HOI4 mods: The New Order: Last Days of Europe and The Thousand Week Reich. The New Order is a narrative-driven mod that focuses on the fallout of an Axis victory and its disastrous effects on the world, and it leading to a three-way Cold War between Nazi Germany, the Japanese Empire and the United States in the 60s. The mod is known for being incredibly ambitious and features many new mechanics and large amounts of events, paths, and characters. Thousand-Week Reich is an Alternate History - Nazi Victory mod for Hearts of Iron IV, based on AP246's Thousand-Week Reich timeline. It is a cold war between the Allies and Axis, with Japan being under Allied occupation.

[@theAirborne17th]

Ultimate General Civil War is great. It can be easily broken, but does great in getting the full scope of the war for both sides and hits most of the major battles of the war. They also had just a Gettysburg version which came first which UG: Civil War is based on.

[@TalkernateHistory]

I had only heard of the Gettysburg one. I didn't realize there was one that covered the whole war. Is it like Panzer General / Panzer Corps where winning or losing battles changes the course of the war?

[@theAirborne17th]

Talkernate History kinda, mostly you just go through most of the major battles. If you lose too much your career as an officer is over. But if you do well enough on the Confederate side you invade Washington DC on the Union you end the war earlier.

[@joshuawells835]

I know the feeling. When we took my grandfather to see Darkest Hour for his birthday, I was the youngest person in that theater too. Though I study History, so. Also, as for the Confederates wearing Revolutionary War uniforms, that's the Continental Morgan Guard, which was a gentlemen's club that mainly did parades and had some action at the Raid on Harper's Ferry. They would become part of K Company, 5th Virginia. Simple History did a video on them and I recommend y'all watch it if y'all are still interested in the Continental Morgan Guard.

[@eddieschwab864]

The Confederate Irish were mostly out of Atlanta hence the accuracy of the O'Hara's in Gone With the Wind. If I recall correctly from that battle however after the battle ended the union chaplain for the Union Irish Brigade had gotten wounded and the Confederate Irish Brigade chaplain (both Catholic priests obviously) did last rites and presided over burial for many of the Irish on both sides of the battlefield.. supposedly the respective Irish chaplains had known each other from their Seminary days.

[@joshuawells835]

There's an alternate history series called Noughts + Crosses, which is set in an alternate England, called Albion, in a world where empires from Africa colonized Europe. There's also For All Mankind, which is set in an alternate Cold War, where the Space Race never ended because the Soviets landed on the moon first.

[@nimitz1739]

I’ve always been a hard-core Civil War history nerd. I remember going to this movie and it was so boring we left

[@s3c0nd1mpact]

You guys are spoiling us. MOVING PICTURES? What's next, FULL TECHNICOLOR?

[@walkingtoursofIreland]

The Last person to receive the civil war pension just died about a week or two ago

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

About the Martin Sheen scene where he's surrounded by Confederate soldiers and looks scared, there's two reasons for that. 1. It was completely spur of the moment. The reenactors ran up to him, surrounded him, and started chanting his name. The reason it ended up in Gettysburg is because Ron Maxwell saw it happening and had the crew grab their cameras and get whatever footage they could. 2. Martin Sheen was an extremely inexperienced rider (watch how much he bounces instead of moving with the horse), and he was likely overwhelmed by the display and his horse was likely getting spooked by everything going on.

[@hvymettle]

A spent round is one that has bled off so much speed/energy that it has lost its penetrating power and is not capable of doing more than superficial damage (although it might still be moving). Of course, it is possible that a spent bullet could still kill if it hits the right spot.

[@anathardayaldar]

The worst of many scenes that killed the immersion for me was when SWJackson was whitling a piece of wood over an otherwise empty desk and some messenger came in and gave an announcement. So he's clearly ON DUTY as a general. He should be insanely busy with paperwork. So where is the paperwork? Why isn't he busy? Where are the rest of his staff?

[@ry8539]

Stonewall actually died on pneumonia

[@eddieschwab864]

Because he ran out of Black Flags

[@thishonestgrifter]

I'd love a full episode on Guns of the South.

[@justinambru8529]

They already did that. Namely the american civil war video

[@HandFromCoffin]

Not really into civil war.. but KZbin said I must watch this. Good info. I read The Education of Little Tree in grade school for some reason. I'm way to old for it to be Opera's book club. I don't remember that much of the book but I seem to remember liking it.

[@TalkernateHistory]

I wouldn't be surprised if Little Tree was actually good, considering how good The Outlaw Josey Wales is. It's a fantastic movie.

[@t.c.thompson2359]

@@TalkernateHistory Yeah, but it kinda stinks of cultural appropriation now, considering it was written by a famous white segregationist

[@andrewmcdonald1166]

The mini-series The Blue and the Gray from the early 80s covers events from the entire war. For its time I recall it being good. Available free on KZbin might be worth viewing

[@JonnyBobby]

58:50 - Kernstown was Jackson's only defeat, not a bad record.

[@thearbiter6843]

You know it’s a good episode when there’s a JoJo reference

[@katamariroller2837]

The confederates behind the wall must have been asking the Union guys if they were approaching them.

[@ORKSIZDABEST]

55:29 did you hear of War of rights?

[@360Nomad]

Confederate soldiers saving pregnant Anne Frank.

[@viracocha6093]

Wtf?

[@ResidualSignB]

Yes,YES

[@thefockn3831]

With a ball point pen in your teeth

[@RedbadofFrisia]

The future that should have been.

[@NoFlu]

I remember when Confederate troops parachuted into Poland and freed the Jews out of the camps. Sadly, soon after Jackson was killed by an anonymous spoon wielding maniac, leading to a Union victory. Sad to see that all those poor Confederate farmers, that only wanted to protect their land and their property (property meaning slaves), killed by those monsterous northern factory owners.

[@ibeatcodin1day]

Washington City is what Washington, DC was called during the Civil War.

[@eddieschwab864]

Because there were a lot of other towns that were within the District of Columbia on both sides of the Potomac

[@drewdurbin4968]

Lang did an excellent job as Jackson.....then again Dr. James Robertson was the senior consultant. He is as close to an expert on jackson you will find

[@jmccoy4128]

That stonewall Jackson’s friendship with the girl and piggyback ride actual happen and she did die that year. his wife was pregnant then had newborn girl. He stayed the winter on her family estate.

[@eddieschwab864]

As far as the Civil War veterans don't forget not just the infantrymen Cavalry and other Mainline Fighters but also since most of them usually head between the teenage boys doing the drum routine for prompting the maneuverings they would constitute veterans also especially since typically especially later in the war they were certainly uniformed.

[@wendeln92]

Both sidew had a wide range of uniforms early in the wa rsimply because that's what their militia unit was wearing at the time. Learning about the formation of antebellum American militia unita is fascinating, the Revolutionary War influenced unfirm was used by both sides because they were both emulating the ideas of Liberty and Freedom inherited from the orignal 1770s/80s patriots. There was also a heavy French influence in uniforms and the zouave uniform and kepi were part of it - much of this influence was intruduced in part by future General McClellen and Elmer Ellsworth's zouave drill units. Both sides had blue and gray uniforms early in the war.

[@nathancausby4406]

I enjoyed the movie personally so I have never understood people saying it's just a horrible movie. Yes one could argue that there's some historical inaccuracies but I always remember a famous quote I heard once that said when it comes to war the victors decide how history will remember it.

[@velocink]

Look up the declarations of secession. This movie does more than a little inaccuracies. History is recorded by civilian historians. The South were traitors fighting for the slave holder's bottom line.