Talking Counter: Episode 46

[@pellevastano]

I can tell from "Do you have a little fun in the shower, janko?" that this episode is already great.

[@MyBadCuhz]

cmon spunj, time to spill the beans about IEM Sydney 2023.

[@MrTanki4]

good job guys on a flawless episode from production stand of view

[@radrussian3289]

why am i listening to a plumber try and explain how a business should be run

[@ToniTakuto]

Would love to keep hearing about the good and bad of venues and after parties.

[@gordonwobby223]

Chad, the org is inseparable from the players. As soon as any 5 players organize themselves, there is effectively an org. So even if you "just take the players and kill the orgs," those 5 players will need a name for their team, and lets say they start winning tournaments, that team name will become a brand, the extra money earned from the tournament winning will be spent developing structure around the team to support them for future tournaments, and boom you are right back where you started when you wanted to "get rid of the orgs." As soon as 5 players organize themselves into a team, there is an org. You can't get rid of orgs.

[@Halcyon_YT_]

Yikes, the debate on tournament formats just went to a whole new level.

[@falsecs]

I see we switched to Black Bars.

[@zackkhan1199]

Some hypothetical "no orgs" world is just pure fantasyland nonsense. If the scene is ever going to grow, we'll need competent business-oriented people who understand both how to manage and run tournaments, AND how to manage and run teams. Are players going to book all of their plane tickets? Communicate with the tournament organizers to coordinate their participation in events? Do all their own analysis? Own/rent out their own practice locations & PCs? If we really want the best Counter Strike we can get, organizations that manage all of these things in addition to plenty of other benefits are an absolute must. We need the players to spend as much time as practical focused on their PLAY.

[@SLiiNKee]

Spunj is off the deep end the last couple episodes 😂

[@kungfusteeze]

Leavin the like without listening yet. I gotta leave it for when I can really sit and enjoy it. Fucking love the cast, and cant treat yall like background noise.

[@DashinDachshund]

On prize pool talk specifically for the major, I think its time Valve went back to the esports case method and the Dota 2 International model where they set a base rate prize pool (1 million like they normally do) and the rest can be supplied by fans through skin incentives etc. It would add a lot more incentive for teams to go 'hard' at a major title rather then just for bragging rights of winning.

[@DashinDachshund]

Wrote this about 45min through, didn't realise ynk mentioned it at 1:10:00

[@trowl42]

My concern about Spunj's idea to go without orgs and focus on the prize money is that orgs are important in facilitating players' ability to succeed, especially in the long term. Support staff for health, coaching/analysis, developing/ discovering new talent as well as providing facilities, bootcamps etc. It would also remove the financial safety net for people, so that only rich people could try to go pro without the risk of bankruptcy, because if it doesn't work out, you're fucked (this is already a problem in our current system tbh)

[@trowl42]

I think the financial risk argument is also a big reason why EU continues to be a more successful region. Other regions like NA have to pay and risk more to compete at the highest level of counter strike and can end up on the streets. Meanwhile people in Denmark are able to access the best csgo in the world from home, and a more robust social safety net if it doesn't work out.

[@trowl42]

I would like to point out a large failing in the current system comes from the business model of modern venture capital to give up profitability to capture market share, grow the fastest and price out your competitors. This basically becomes a dick measuring contest which spirals into increasingly stupid financial decisions. It is just kind of built into the modern financial system, as responsibly run businesses can't compete with the insane amounts of money other businesses are pumping in.

[@trowl42]

TLDR: We need communism for better counter strike 😎

[@Orbytual]

yeah, well said all the way down

[@IsaacSable]

If you do the "if X says Y then take a shot" episode, each of you should have their own piece of paper with 3 of the phrases or topics, for the 2 other people. Would be funny trying to figure out what phrase makes someone drink.

[@waterbottleguy3649]

moses pretending to drink shots is hilarious

[@morde24]

Pretty sure it was Barcelona that had the whole pick your opponent dynamic, and they did like 2 teams per nationality to make it cooler. Pretty sure that's where mixwell broke out

[@stef9019]

Man YNK is right you need the handle to clean down there properly stop clowning him

[@c01d_h4nds]

just use hands

[@cameron5249]

@@c01d_h4nds yeah you're in the fucking shower i don't get why people don't just get in there

[@tuskutin]

My idea for the major was to have stickers for 32 teams, but have the major itself be only 16 teams. Have those 2 bo3 swiss "major qualifiers" or "challenger stage" some time before the actual major instead of cramming it all in 2 weeks.

[@jordzkie05]

Spunj is getting decimated in this episode xD

[@sk0kiE]

seeing as you filmed this in 4:3 I'm going to have to watch with stretched res

[@liamosuilleabhain9965]

SPUNJ brand shower sponges when?

[@jianchen7450]

i love yanko

[@MG-qq8gh]

agree with janko on that one

[@aaron71598]

If we had an esports case we’d easily have a $10mil major, and I’m sure players would take a lower salary to play on a better team or with better players to get a piece of that

[@TranceReligion]

Ynk is gonna start packing a shower head for his NA trips😝

[@HaasTheFirst]

Man Yanko I fucking feel you, I can not understand how people (looking at spunj and moses here) do not care about not having a handle! People are filthy :D

[@AlexMiamorschh]

4:3 black bars KEKW

[@heavyflamerheresy2581]

An Idea could put 30-40minutes on The match and The team that have The most points wins. So a match dont go on forever, like in football where you play 90 minutes, but you Can score as Much as you can. The same could be with the rounds you could fuck around for 40 minutes with the bomb and never plant or you could get a point afeter 30 sec if you either Got a fast bomb plant or shot the enemy team. And you could give teams points like 3 points for wins and 1 for a draw. I think that would give some very interesting matches and maybe some really fast and agressiv rounds.

[@Bojesen03]

Where did the time stamps go?

[@ToniTakuto]

Also, Spunj has a great point on organizations, and to see the value in his point, all you need to do is look at privately owned restaurants. They do EVERYTHING ynk and Moses were chirping about BY THEMSELVES at a high level. They activate local fan bases through social media, they source local work for things like photography and merchandising, they schedule travel cheaply for catering events, all while basically running and maintaining their own venue. It's definitely possible for esports teams to model after something like that and make MORE money, have MORE freedom over what happens with their brand, and MORE longevity through working together on multiple levels. But loom at what is happening with the scarcity of good igls- the types of people who are attracted to esports are rarely good leadership material. Most of the ones we have now had to become leaders over time BECAUSE no one else wanted to do it at a high level.

[@moze_-]

I like that, but honestly the biggest problem was the instant jump to venture capital. Every esports org is losing money because they have no concept of how to actually make money. Just a bunch of gamer nerds and start-up grifters were just given millions of dollars and told "You got this." like there was any other outcome.

[@sheppy5152]

Never let spunj have control of obs again

[@freelancer56]

oh yeah

[@1TheRaven]

🎉🎉🎉

[@atahannd.9937]

I would love to see blast or esl run alternate map pools at their non prestige events. moreso esl than blast because of how connected their circuit is. IEM dallas type tournaments but they play cache cobble dust2 train and any other maps of old that people enjoy. I think it would be great. If the teams complained then fuck em they are contracted to play.

[@chillarttalks]

1:16:58 wat... life isn't fair, but competition is. Or should be at least, what is this argument

[@FeintMotion]

very CPL like environ for a podder

[@fanoose]

ropz are you here

[@ithrowstuffinavideogame]

Watching this after EG bombed out lmao 🤣 Edit: bombed out of Dallas

[@Anonassassin]

Swiss system in CS makes no sense

[@chillarttalks]

1:10:00 you absolutely can't have 8 teams prequalify for the biggest "open" tournament. Completely kills the integrity in favour of business

[@ujaku_]

Nooooo I very intentionally do not watch on spotify

[@amartripathy]

Chad put timestamps mate Last video had

[@john-hanner]

im sorry but this "remove all orgs" take is absolutely unhinged lol. if no more orgs exists, no one is paying players salaries, no salaries mean no sustainable income so players cant focus on the game, which means degrading in game qualities and lower skill based. if the game qualities go to shit and players leaving, there is no esports. Its not rocket science.

[@ExZ1te]

We need timestamps please

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

Попу мыл?

[@CalebTimoteo]

8 teams automatically invited to the Major, now that’s “a moronic” take

[@qwerty8601]

Spunj listens to bert kreischer and chael sonnen... lost all respect 😢

[@17e1]

Janko coping

[@lupurednic8624]

Go make HLTV Comfirmed

[@surdukks2219]

this podcast is good :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD