Talking Politics and Economy with Professor Warwick Powell

Everyone on Twitter who follows Warwick Powell, knows he is well-informed and knowledegable on all matters China - I pick his brains on several topics, most importantly: when is China ever going to collapse!!!
Time stamps
1:47 My original interest in speaking with you was to ask about your take on Whether Australia will support the applications for accession to the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans Pacific Partnership, the CPTPP, so let’s start with that:
13:19 You’re following the Indonesian Nickel mining and refining saga where China has helped Indonesia overcome what some might call the shackles of colonialism; the WTO doesn’t agree with you, what’s happening and is Indonesia doing anything wrong?
31:33 Can we touch on “Debt Trap Diplomacy” which China is accused of in underdeveloped regions, is there any truth in the story, to me, it looks like it’s been thoroughly debunked by people like Deborah Brautigam; what’s your take on it?
44:23 Another interesting development is the North Sea Route out of Vladivostok and into Murmansk, I’ll bring a map up to show this but do you think this will affect the relationship with China in any way - I personally see a positivity in it if a land route across China can ever come into effect; what’s your view?
1:02:33 We can’t have a discussion with someone as eminent as you without me asking you when is China finally going to collapse? It’s been touted for the last 20 plus years and it’s still happening what’s actually going on?
1:38:27 I’m watching the quiet process of a thing called mBridge in HK, a CBDC, and we’ve seen how the sanctions on Russia backfired and actually helped the Russian economy at the expense of mostly the European economy but the question is: Is dollarisation coming to an end, or is there a process by which the USD can recover?
And after this, lost of general and informative chat

[@warwickpowell2870]

Thanks Jerry for being such a generous and inquisitive host. And again, I apologise to everyone for the length. I will try harder to be more succinct in the future.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Warwick, you have nothing to apologise for, it was an insightful evening, I'm so grateful that you wrre so generous swith you time and hope your family will forgive me for taking so much of it. We're going to meet agin in a month or so, if you're still willing, to leave the politics out and enjoy a great chat about our relaitve experiences in China - you have as many as I do I think and there are hundreds of stories waiting to come forth. I can't wait for that one

[@stevetout3195]

You were both so generous with your time. It was a great interview/discussion, thank you both

[@mongee9380]

You are both amazing! Professor Warwick - we are grateful for your insight. A lot of good info! I learn a lot from both of you! Thank You!🙏

[@Infodawg2012]

It is pure joy to listen to two highly intelligent men talk about so many important topics. I wish everyone in the world, especially in Australia, would listen and be educated by Prof. Powell .

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you so much

[@liamporter1137]

Great discussions. Informative. Thanks for sharing.

[@Infodawg2012]

Really enjoyed this interview. All Aussies should listen to this wise professor.Thanks Jerry for such a great selection of guests in your shows.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks, I have another great one lined up soon, I'm just negotiating a time with Cameron Leckie, probably early next week

[@Kentalot]

Wow what a great guest. Surprising i have not seen him on other channels and interviews. His analogies are totally on point. To extend his comparison to autoimmunity, it is usually an overreaction to something that might be begnign or only mildly detrimental, which perfectly describes the western reaction to most resistence to their hegemony. Glad you had such an enlightening guest.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks, he's very active on X, @baoshaoshan

[@davidkelly2262]

American's can think differently, Dr Jill Stein & her Green Party,is good example. Thanks Jerry & Professor Warwick Powell, just excellent, much appreciated

[@barrywong4327]

Mr Powell is fantastic. Such intelligence, clarity and insightfulness. Let’s put Jeffrey Sachs and Warrick Powell on the presidential ticket this November. It’s nauseating to even mention Trump and Biden in this context. Jerry, kudos for inviting Mr Powell. Please have him back often.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

I can't see a Chinese born Australian doing well in the Presidential election but I"m sure Warwick will be enamoured with the idea and very pleased that you thought he was capable - I agree, he is but...!

[@parttimethinker7611]

Professor Warwick Powell is awesome, Jerry. I’m inspired. Thanks a bunch Jerry. Your time is most appreciated as always. Sounds like the Australian need to grow up and be independently matured.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you, he is and they do - fortunately, there are several people like him in prominent positions in Australia, hopefully they can turn back the tide!

[@bobmorane4926]

Amazing guest. Kudo to Jerry to find such a gem !!!

[@sd8688]

Professor has the globle insight. Thank you Jerry to bring him abroad.

[@richardw6352]

Long interview but worth every minute. Amazing breath and depth of some many topics by Prof Warwick Powell. And the personal words of wisdom and philosophy are gems. Fantastic!

[@absolootely2571]

Australia used to be an Asian Diplomatic Superpower. A foot in both camps. USA & China. A respected voice, a go-between, moving in the shadows calming things down, undoing blockages. Swapped it all on a promise of old (by delivery time) 8 nuclear subs with a delivery date muchly corresponding to their use-by-date sometime around 2040.

[@alanhamford2538]

80% of Australia's export are to Asian countries. Will OZ toss that away so as to take sides?

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Agreed, the could be but there really isn't a time when they have actually been that superpower, they came close and should have been but blew it, you're right

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Let's hope not, it's interesting that Taiwan is their 4th biggest trading partner, with a simialr population that would be a very worrying position to be in, if they offend China, they will be hurt

[@davidkelly2262]

Thanks Jerry & your excellent Professor Warwick Powell, excellent

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you kindly

[@JianYZhong]

Warwick Powell has an interesting life and background, great to get his wisdom and insights. I hope the hosts at The Duran invite him for one of their episodes, as their audience will be very different, not so familiar with China.

[@john99776]

There are lots of intelligent Americans, but America's people are prisoners of their government. It is a kakistocracy. Excellent program - thanks so much.

[@jamesthomas9902]

A very welcome dialogue and it is so interesting to hear about how quickly the window that briefly opened was snapped shut by those colonial masters we still "Toady" to. Keating's realism was always seen as a great threat to the fearmongers and with our inability to think outside the sports pages, I still weep when I think how Australia could have achieved a "Revolution" on a Saturday with a vote on becoming a Republic where many Countries have had to suffer years of war. We were fools

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

I became an Australian citizen to take part in that vote and planned to vote for a republic until the wording of who slected the President came out - I couldn't accept the president being appointed by the parliament so I decided, very reluctantly, to vote the other way

[@jamesthomas9902]

As stated we were fools as the debate was hijacked and we didn't have to fight for it too civilized for that@@jerrystakeonchina799

[@stupidwars88]

Find myself totally engrossed in the conversation. Great guest. Thanks Jerry!

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Glad you enjoyed it, thank you

[@t4ac]

Jerry, when you started you noted that it was 9 pm for Prof Warwick and not to hold him for too late. Then the conversation went on for 3 hours - ie. 12 pm for Prof. This is not a criticism but a reflection of the kind of mutually engaging chats between friends that time seems to fly by. My first time listening to Prof Warwick - he comes across as humble and one that doesn't talk nonsense. Cheers :)

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

Prof Warwick is of Chinese descent. His mother is Chinese.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Correct, the intial plan was to finish at 10pm his time - I know he has two young kids and needs to get up to see them off to school in the morning so I was conscious of the time, however, he was so generous with it, we went much later than I thought - I hope his family can forgive me

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Correct - he was actually born in China, in Hong Kong when it was a colony

[@Spacerkari]

Excellent and erudite discussion thank you Jerry and thank you Warrick.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Glad you enjoyed it, I certainly did - he's amazing

[@michaelkoh2280]

The best interview I have heard for several years. Ty Prof Warwick

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you too

[@wilynicko]

Great guest and discussion. You're on a roll, Jerry 😊

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks

[@stevetout3195]

I dont know where to start with this interview, other than to say it has been the best viewing I've had in years. A wide ranging discussion, clarity, perspective & true understanding of the subjects discussed, in one word magnificent Warwick's knowledge and the easy way he got the information across and you're willingness to let it flow, kept me glued to the screen for an hour & a half more than I had expected. Thank you for introducing me to another person i need to listen to Jerry, this makes probably 8 or more people I now get to enjoy & the list is ever expandig Warwick was smack on with the comment about your influence gradually but surely expanding peoples views & your reach Thank you Jerry & Warwick for that 3 hour delight I could say much more, but i think you get my point. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Wow Steve, thant you - I'll pass this comment to Warwick too

[@worldpeace3753]

Jerry you always best thank you for inviting such a tremendous knowledge and high profile people, it was a great program.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you - I have two more incredible guests lined up next week - Cameron Leckie and Godfree Roberts - both very smart people too - I'm hoping it rubs off!!!

[@gusbilly]

Hello Jerry I love your content. I have a suggestion have a digital person to edit your content to shorter versions. That was you can get more views and for people like me who may be interested in one particular topic I can then view that topic. Also short versions for tiktok and instagram. Cheers from the Caribbean

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

I don't prefer Tik Tok shorts for this kind of serious info. It's a nuisance, annoying and a waste of time. In fact, I try to unsubscribe from these channels that have many useless shorts.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you, I do have a Tik Tok presence "Jerry's Take on China" but it's small and really not my preferred medium, it's the same name as this one I have about 50 short videos on there, some of them have found their way to this platform too but mostly they are exclusive to Tik Tok, I really don't want to get into REddit or Instagram or others, I'm a lone operator operating out of my studio which is effectivel a former bedroom in my apartment, I don't have the time or resources to do everything I'd like to do - as it is, I spend about 12-15 hours every single day doing this, I really don't want more! I'm going to cut a couple of the questions from this longer one into shorter videos but this really was the longest I've ever done and just because Warwick is so knowledgable and so generous with his time that it went this long, normally, they would stop around 90 minutes

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

I feel the same, not enough detail or evidentiary proof in a short

[@inzaghi1115]

Great discussion. Loved it!

[@markmahan38]

What Warwick said about autoimmunity is prefect. I have tried to articulate that very thing. But in a more convoluted way. But essentially it is the analogy that Professor Warwick used, of Autoimmunity. I think I will use that from now on, to cut away the wordy convolution from my previous articulation.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Yes, he's VERY smart

[@Lost_Johnny]

Brilliant discussion with Professor Warwick Powell. I had not heard of him before but I hope to hear more later.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thank you, I'm happy to say, he's agreed to come back in a month to have a discussion about his China experiences rather than his economic and political expertise

[@Lost_Johnny]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 Great. I cannot believe I sat through a three hour interview (I had a break a few times) :) I would love to hear him talking more about digital currencies and maybe the development of A1 with reference to China.

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thank you both. I found Dr Powell through his interviews with Pascal Lottaz (Neutrality Studies), which I've listened to many many times. I had already some knowledge of Keynes's failed Bancor (Bancour) idea through Michael Hudson (and Desai and Norton). I am really impressed by Dr Powell's knowledge and advocacy of the idea and glad to see it's catching. Oh, and I am huge fan of what in the west is called worker co-op (worker owned and controlled businesses). Happy to hear such wholesome conversation. BTW, druthers is misspelled by the auto-caption as brothers.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks Stephen, unfortunately, the captions are auto-generated, I can't change them - they are a work in progress but they're better than nothing - this is why, when I do scripted videos, I also link the script so if anyone wants to read along, they can

[@leefosang7436]

Very insightful talks. Political science, social science students would be able to broaden their view points or mindsets.

[@cabasadefogo9533]

I just finally finished this episode. What an amazing interview. Mr Powell is such a knowledgeable person on history, Australia, China, different business sectors. Thank you Jerry on this amazing interview.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for persisiting he most certainly is a font of knowlege

[@hamidhamidi3134]

This man makes me think differently. Thanks for this interview.

[@maxzeleweski3120]

Very good discussion. Thank u 👍

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Glad you liked it, thank you

[@donatwu3128]

Yes, Jerry, it was an absolutely fantastic show. Thank you very much, both of you, Warwick & Jerry. With respect to the Taiwan issue, my gut feeling is that the never stopping mistakes US makes in its policies with China will in effect expedite the reunification of Taiwan back to China, because China is wise enough to take the best opportunities out of them, & most probably in non-military manner . In case of any military conflict instigated or pushed up by any foreign power, Chinese do not fight Chinese will be the main theme. Having said that, separatists who do not recognize their Chinese nationality will not be taken as Chinese & will be treated the same way as foreign aggressors. China only needs to make sure it is strong enough to scare/fend off any attempts of foreign military aggressions & to establish strong conditions to make itself effectively non-vulnerable to gang sanctions. Based on the current trend, I have confidence that China will be able to do it.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

I share your confidence Donat, I know they can do it but will the US allow them too - the provocation is intense and continuing, China has shown great restraint but how long wll that last, I don't kow - there's absolutely no point gtaking this to the UN because the US are immune to any censure from the UN and will just accuse China of the aggression they are perpetrating

[@donatwu3128]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 US will not allow that to happen. However, we have a Chinese saying, "There is more than enough of heart, but unfortunately insufficient capability". As the West declines & the East rises with time, say in another decade, China's strength & astute foreign policies will make China relatively non-vulnerable to US aggressions because any proxies the latter may use/sacrifice to harm China would end up harming their own-selves more seriously & would refuse to do so. Major military conflicts led by US against China will be unlikely because there would have to be considerations/fears of creating opportunities for Russia, North Korea, etc. for opening up more war fronts elsewhere in the world. As Warwick correctly pointed out, everybody wants to get on with normal life.

[@powerandpresence5290]

Are you OK with honouring what the people of Taiwan want? 80% prefer autonomy from the PRC, and this has not shifted in the past 30 years.

[@donatwu3128]

@ndpresence5290 You should understand more about the 1 country 2 system offered by PRC to Taiwan rather than the disinformation fed to you by your politicians & media. There is no issue of democracy & autonomy for Taiwan, but acting as foreign proxy to harm &/or secession from PRC will not be allowed. Under the 1 country 2 system, Taiwan will enjoy more autonomy than what California, Texas, etc. enjoy in US. All these will be governed by the 1 country 2 system constitution. Does US allow Hawaii to quit despite the latter's wish?

[@powerandpresence5290]

@@donatwu3128So, have you lived in Taiwan like I have? Have you considered that it’s you that has been fed disinformation? The results of polls in Taiwan have barely shifted over the past 40 years. 80% want the current status quo maintained, or full independence. Only 20% want unification. That’s the reality you are dealing with. As my Taiwanese girlfriend said when I left to live in the mainland: “Be careful. China is a country that we don’t like.” Her attitude is widespread in Taiwan.

[@makemeaningfulwork]

Brilliant and Wawick is a pleasure to learn from. Thank you Jerry! Your shows are excellent!

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Cheers Dan and Jo, see you on Sunday - I've got some work done on our task...

[@makemeaningfulwork]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 thank you

[@louiserobinson9776]

I have to admit that the beginning of the discussion about CPTPP is a bit too high brow for me but I am glad I persevered as the rest of the discussion is really informative and interesting. Professor Powell’s analysis of all the topics is absolute master class! I’d suggest that the wide-ranging discussion could be segmented off for shorter videos such as “debt trap diplomacy “, “China’s collapse”, North Sea route, etc. to reach a wider audience. You do have so many interesting guests

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Sorry about that - I was doing a research paper on the topic about it and contacted several players in the game for comment, Warwick was so helpful and provided me with so much more that I felt there was a great discussion to be had - he certainly didn't disappoint - for me the CPTPP is a fascinating topic and one which I will research much deeper when I have more time

[@kapk]

Best guest for your channel

[@iqbang9236]

Australia does not want to refine its minerals and export metal products simply because it would be more expensive, has heavy environmental pollution, and lacks experienced workers. Their ever-changing ore price has already made up that part of the profit. Selling raw materials is NOT a backward sign when combined with international capital.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

How about when China stops importing coal from Australia as it, and almost every country in the world, phases out dependence on coal, how about when China brings the West African Iron Ore mines online and start buying through the port it's constructing there? When these two things happen, Australia might find itself in a collapsed economy - they won't be able to afford to import fnished goods from China or other parts of asia because they won't be exporting a huge amount of their current exports - sometimes it's necessary to bite the bullet and do what needs to be done - amazingly, if China is allowed to help them, it is the only way they will secure their own future but they are cutting China out of their investment chain through stupidity related to US national Security

[@iqbang9236]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 Understood your points. The fact that China is a world factory means China needs all the raw materials to feed its manufacturing industry needs. Australia is a lucky country indeed with all the top-notch resources. Australia's dependence on the US is deep to the core. It's a national consensus, a trust for being the same Anglo-Saxon, and the same fear of communism. To Australia, being a collapsed economy is nothing when compared with their imaginary "China Invasion." If you look at it, China only wants to be other countries' fair trading partners but the West wants more from China. They want to change China according to their wills, so they can steal the Chinese accumulated wealth just like they did to the old Soviet Union.

[@kmhoh]

Excellent pod 👍👍👍

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks 👍

[@markmahan38]

India has great potential. But there is a glaring problem for the Indian populations. It is my opinion that the problem stems from the resurgence of the unvoiced sentiment of the Indian ruling class. This sentiment or ideology of the Indian ruling class is the resurgence of the idea of Sultans. If not openly named, it is in my opinion all but a new Aristrocry of Sultans. A Neo Sultan ruling elites. I have said this about the West as well. The same dynamic I say is taking place in India. The West is all but declaring the rise of a Neo Feudal Aristocracy. But the difference is that the West wants to be the World's Neo Feudal Aristocracy. While India wants to be a Regional Neo Feudal Aristocracy.

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

If only India 🇮🇳 can emulate China other than the population size 😂

[@shiulai5804]

The rise of Hindu extremism in the ruling class of India has indulged human rights abuses inside the nation. I remember the lynching death of 7 non-Hindus under Modi's watch. It is a concern.

[@jamesthomas9902]

Great book by Cyril Pearl "Morrison of Peking" also more modern version The Man Who Died Twice by Peter Thompson and Robert Macklin also a good read

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Thanks I'll look them up, I'm assuming the Morrison of Peking is the same Morrison who walked across China, not the one who was PM of Australia - I wonder if they are related!!!

[@jamesthomas9902]

I fully understand and concur@@jerrystakeonchina799

[@elkaboom1871]

Professor Powell is a veritable treasure trove of information, Jerry. I'm really glad to have learned so much from him.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Me too Ken, thank you

[@gryblk21]

I am not that sure predestination is not real. The fears and prejudices of a people have a powerful inevitability that create their own future.

[@hongqingxiang3374]

Thank you both for having and sharing a most (to me lah) informative discussion🙂🙏🙂

[@hongqingxiang3374]

[@philipyuan681UT]

👍👍👍

[@alanhe2049]

👍👍

[@gryblk21]

My grandfather was from Zhongshan.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Wow, that's great, I wonder if you;ll ever visit, if you do, look me up - I've lived here 19 years now and love it

[@alanhe2049]

Tony Abbott recons Indian is the perfect replacement for China 😂 he doesn't know about the Indians don't eat beef? Consuming less red wine?🍷and exporting grain 🌾? Scott Morrison is very similar and he is warning on China in his final speech

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Yep, Tony wasn't a good politician, he isn't a very good trade diplomat either

[@vbien38]

Re the "Debt trap" @ the ~40:50 point Powell said "on the social balance sheet China is not losing money". There you have it, the Western mind thinks only about the money and the financial aspects - the point of doing things to them is to make money so ipso facto aspects such as the transformation to the lives of the people who live around the development "doesn't count"! Where did that nonsense come from? I want to put an argument in a different dimension namely to say, that is how minds bound by conventional neoclassical economics think.

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Agreed, I've said this often, the "collapse theory" is simply because people watch China through Western lenses, world bank executives praise China but question if their policies are sustainable - of course they are sustainable because the lift people form poverty, that's the goal not the profit from it

[@jamysmith7891]

It takes centuries for a great civilization to collapse, most Western countries suffer regular short term economic collapses and they had a collective collapse as the Great Depression; There’s nothing natural about this, humans don’t live at the whim of the weather as we used to, these economic disruptions are engineered by the market cartels The post Roman dark age was a process of wicked princes tearing the empire to pieces to form the feudal arena (the core concern of Machiavelli who is grossly misrepresented); The Great Depression was designed to take control of Europe and Japan by the US in WW2 An economy is a strait forward civil engineering project, the only complications they have are rampant corruption and foreign attack

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

China 🇨🇳 is a civilization state whereas USA, etc are nation states. You see Chinese New Year or variations of it being celebrated across Asia especially ASEAN. For the imperial and neo-colonial West to impose its values against centuries of China civilization influences are tough nuts to crack 😂

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

I think, perhaps due to the digital age, there will be a faster collapse this time, the time frame for empire colapses has been shortening, the YSA is going to have something like the Yuan Dynasty, 75 years of hegemony and then utter ruin - it's almost an inevitability but it could be reversed, although it's unlikly to be - the British Empire took 2 world wars and 70 years to collapse but in retropect, around the turn of the last century, it was inevitable - I think the US has already collapsed, it just hasn't fallen over yet - will there be an apocalyptic crash as a last ditch effort to save it though - I sincerely hope not

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 It bewilders me when Western pundits are talking about China’s future collapse when imperial USA and its vassals, EU are collapsing right now, presently. Look at the European wide Farmers protests. They’re fed up with the ruling class elites.

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

@@jerrystakeonchina799 It bewilders me when Western pundits talk about China’s future collapse when the imperial USA and its vassal states, the EU are collapsing right now, presently. Look at the Europe wide farmers protests now. They are fed up with their ruling class elites after being dumbed down and indoctrinated by their government propagandas for so long.

[@SpeakingTheTruth88]

It bewilders me that Western pundits are talking about China future 🔮 collapse when imperial USA and its vassals, the EU 🇪🇺 are collapsing right now, presently. Look at the farmers protests across Europe now. They are fed up with their ruling class elites.

[@sabinereynaudsf]

Are people who bought unfinished apartments loosing money?

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

No, not generally - people who buy and live in apartments can't lose money as they live rent free until they sell - if the value when they sell is lower than the value when they bought, then yes, they lose money but most people in China don't have mortgages, so why sell something unless you're moving up - if you move up, the apartment or house you move into will be cheaper than it would have been a few years ago, so you actually save money there too and live in it until you retire, you can't lose money - remember, there are not rates or property taxes in China - living in an apartment is completely free, therfore, a great incentive to avoid renting I bought a new apartment recently, there are many for sale, they are cheap, I haven't sold my old apartment yet but if I do, because I lived there almost 10 years, the loss of value is not as low as the cost of purchase 9 years ago - so, I can sell it, I've lived rent free for 9 years and will make about 50-100,000 RMB profit still -ordinary people are not affected by this - it's the billionaires who borrowed millions to buy several on speculation that theywould increase 15% in the first 6 months, normally they would be right, now they've borrowed millions and lost twns of millions if they can't afford to reply, they wll be bankrupt - it was always a specualtive gamble, it paid off for years and then the government said they would stop it and they did - they work to benefit the majority, not the rich minority

[@sabinereynaudsf]

@takeonchina799 Thank you for the detailed answer. I was wondering specifically about the apartments that were sold already before they were finished. When the developer doesn't finish building, how will buyers get their money back? There is supposedly about $1 Trillion owed to buyers.

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

Description of these people (the non-Asian superpower): Loud and noisy which is fraudulently perceived as “smart”. Only the weak-minded and gullible will get fooled.😂

[@jerrystakeonchina799]

Sadly, they do... lot's of them!

[@alvinserrano5554]

What a nice conversation of you two I learn some thanks for the info