Tangledeep review (roguelike rpg)

My review of Tangledeep, a fantastic addition to the roguelike genre. This is such a good game.
Review copy provided free of charge.
Buy: store.steampowe...
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Pepp's Picks is delivering knowledgeable indie game videos!
Contact: [e-mail]
#tangledeep #indiegame #rogue-like

[@foreignuser_]

going inside the item to improve it is from the Disgaea series

[@DelDuio]

Going inside your item to improve it sounds a lot like Disgea's Item World. Cool!

[@SebastianSkadisson]

What a great review, thank you for that. Tangledeep is one of those games that stick with me for years and it returns to my "next games to play" list time and time again, pretty much like Skyrim and Oblivion do; similar to those games you will never have seen everything, even after countless and maybe some completed playthroughs. Tangledeep even has become such a cult classic already, that there's a remix album of it's soundtrack available on GoG now and the numbers of players doesn't stop rising. I'd say this is a must buy for Roguelike genre fans or people who are curious about what "Roguelike" means now that so many titles call themselves "Rogue-Lite" (there's a great video by CynicalBrit aka. TotalBiscuit about those two terms). A word of advice for starters: don't get discouraged when the true Rogue aspects of this game hit you unprepared the first few runs and utterly destroy a character you carefully built in seconds, because they will, and at first they will sometimes feel unfair, even with this game being one of the most forgiving Roguelike titles - you will get a hang of it and be more prepared for those punches the game swings at you after the first few runs and even learn how to use such situations for your character's gain and the overarching progress.

[@StonebeakProductions]

Just found out about Tangledeep this morning. Stoked for a Switch release!! Stellar music and visuals. So excited!!

[@Lattentreffer]

quick heads up: fire up the eshop. after waiting 11 month it has been released on the eshop tonight.

[@InWeCome]

This reminds me of Tales of Maj'Eyal, one of the best roguelikes ever. This is much more accessible though.

[@sfalexl21]

Thanks for the well done, well formatted review of this little known game. You super helped me figure out that that I'm about to throw my money at this game

[@peppage]

😀 awesome, that's what I'm here for. Thanks

[@Multrakiller]

It's on HB right now, so thx for the review :)

[@skins4thewin]

See, I don't know if I am totally on board with ALL drops being COMPLETELY random. They SHOULD give you some set drops here and there to ensure you aren't just getting horribly unlucky, as that could also spell death or at least a far bigger challenge. That should be offset with some good solid predetermined drops here and there to even things out.

[@MFG1243]

I know this reply is a year late, but this is kinda offset by the amount of drops you get. Sure, in-dungeon drops might not give you all you need, but the shops restock frequently and if you really still can't find a good item... just make your own! You can just go into the item world and create that awesome drop you wanted from your currently mediocre equipment. Just be careful that you... survive.

[@gamingrecords6674]

A few key points to know about this game before you buy 1. pet system sucks, pets dont lvl at all you also need to get their likeness lvl up to a certain level before you can even use them which can take forever, by the time you can even use them they'll be grossely underpowered and even if you can use them if you don't keep paying thousands for insurance every time they die, then its permadeath for em and the pet control system isn't very good so trust me they'll die 2. loot variation sucks, even after playing this for less than 10 hours I pretty much saw all the different kinds of effects and there's not really many unique ones either 3. There's no healing spells or regen, and everything costs, if you use the healer in town, its prices skyrocket by a heck of allot for a long duration, the shops dont sell much food either and they also take a while to restock, add onto the fact it costs you for every time you bank an item, and a decent item can cost thousands unless you can survive to later game its a costant pain to keep healed up. 4. All character sprites are female, and they have pretty much no other animations besides running and an attack animation Those were the key points for me anyway that were a pain and to be honest there's not that many positives, the art looks nice, but the sprites are reused quite allot and like I said previously there's not that much animation, there's also very little in terms of customization, each class you pick is generally locked into using a specific weapon, you can use a different one but you'll have skills you cant use so its best to just use the one the character sprite has and each character basically follows one specific route of gameplay don't expect to be able to make your own character

[@peppage]

I think the healing is done on purpose to keep the game difficult and force you to rely on food and your flask. There is only one main character. You're just selecting a job for her so while they all look the same that's on purpose. The real customization is switching jobs. The job system is very flexible and when you purchase a skill in one job that job is permanently on that character. So you can customize that way which would allow you to switch weapons. EDIT: thanks for you comment, I think you have some valid points but those did not detract from the fun for me.

[@TheOneTrueNothing]

I've only played for roughly 10 hours just to bare in mind i don't have lots of experience in the game yet, i just want to address the points that peppage didn't cover. I agree with both the points he made in response. 1. personally i chose to ignore the pet system while i got to grips with the game and honestly i'd wager that the pet system's main purpose is as an advanced gameplay tool, it seems you can get by fine without it *but* you can use it to make life a little easier. That being said i've only played floramancer and sword dancer and found most success with floramancer, due to using the floraconda as a tank, so it's also possible that the pet system is alternative to having a floraconda. I'll have to do some experimenting and perhaps come back when i've learned system but those are just my theories as to why it may not seem great to new players getting to grips with the game. 2. Honestly i'd have to disagree with you on the loot, having sunk at least 50 hours or so into LOTR 2 for the GBA when i was younger which uses the same item system, as i've said i'm roughly 10 hours into the game (and just beyond the branching meadow) and i'm still finding items i haven't seen before and new effects. When making a roguelike gear system it's somewhat important to keep it simple because it keeps the RNG pool from being too dilute, i'd also imagine it stops over complication from a dev's standpoint. Thank you if you took the time to read this, I hope this gives you a more forgiving view on the game ^^ Edit: Another note while i'm at it; you mentioned jobs restricting your choice of weapons, well this isn't strictly true because there are a few variations with their own benefits such as one-handed sword vs two-handed, dual wielding and shields. I found an item that boosts info-collection on enemies and that raised the question do i run that in my offhand or a codex.

[@gamingrecords6674]

The main problem I had with the healing aspect was that it didn't make the game harder it simply served to slow it down Yeah I went back and had a look and admittingly I saw you could change jobs but didnt actually select it as I was set on the 'class' I was playing I figured this was just so you didn't need to recreate a character if you got bored of that one characters skills and playstyle, but I see now you can use every skill from every character, never thought of this as it now seems strange as to why they seperated them all in the first place as every skill can be obtained by one character the only real difference I think are the 3 level up extra's you get and a different looking sprite, why not just make it so you can choose a few hairstyles and body types, and then give a skill tree of every skill in the game and lvl up skills so you can choose a couple before starting and then mix and match as you like the whole job switching just seems tedious and unnecessary, you'd only lay it out the way they have if it as going to work the way i thought it did and its a pain you need to pay to do it (I also find it a pain in the rear that you need to pay for banking items, money)

[@gamingrecords6674]

like you said you ignored the pet system and even more so if you play a melee user as the time and cost it takes to get a usable pet expecially later on isn't worth the time, the only time you'd ever use the pet is during a boss fight or when your in a bind, but even then its better, easier and heck even cheaper to just use a summoning egg you can buy to summon a temp pet for 99 turns making the pet system even more unless. In terms of loot, games like these in my opinion loot is essentially the crux of the game, if the loot is too simple then it loses its addictive edge and you get bored very quickly, it might just me being unlucky but every item I've gotten in 25 hours has all been garbage for the most part, even legendaries and sets have pretty uninteresting effects but that could just be me I mean in 3 characters I got the same 5 legendaries in a row not including generic ones in the shops as for jobs I went under the assumption due to there being multiple classes to choose from each ones skills wouldnt be transferrable but I know now thats not the case, which makes me wonder why they split everything into different character sprites to begin with instead of making a skill tree, I can only assume they didn't want to create different hair/body sprites so you could make your own which I think would have appeased people more even if the options were limited (And the mini map oh god what a pain -.-)

[@RockPlays]

id never heard of this game till this video thanks pep

[@toparky2470]

how do u guys equip ur skills into the hotbar? i accidentally removed my skills and i dont know how to put them back in there :(

[@mitchfindergeneral]

I really need to buy this.

[@QuestionThings123]

Looks like a combination of Cardinal Quest 2 and the Disgaea series...how have I never heard of this until now?? I'm definitely getting this on my Switch when it comes out next week

[@peppage]

Probably got lost in the crazy amount of games that get released on steam. Glad it's coming to switch :)

[@sedd1234]

It feels like ToME lite... but its pretty good even if it isn't as good.

[@bgrm714]

Might have to pick this up, looks like one of those 300+ hour roguelikes. But I also want it on mobile!

[@peppage]

I believe it is coming to the Switch so that's more mobile.

[@gamingrecords6674]

trust me maybe 30 hours at best little loot variation even after 12 hours let alone 300

[@Nemer49994]

It's horribly boring after 20 hours and not very fun from the beginning to the end.

[@skins4thewin]

Never been much into Rogue RPG's but this one seems interesting enough that I'm willing to give it a shot. If I can't get into this one then I'll know that the genre just isn't for me.

[@peppage]

How did it go?

[@skins4thewin]

@@peppage Lol haven't tried it yet. Will probably be a while before I do.

[@Gakeee]

Hi Skins4thewin, I just got a 50% off coupon from crafting cards on steam, and according to steam it is tradeable so if you're still interested in the game I'm willing to hand it to ya lol - I'm not interested in this type of game so you're totally welcome to it. I'm gonna ask a few other people as well, so just lmk when u can. The thing expires in a week from now

[@skins4thewin]

@@Gakeee Lol well that's awful nice of ya! Unfortunately tho I don't really do PC gaming at all, I do everything on a console. So I'll just say to go ahead & give the next lucky person a shot at it. I appreciate the offer tho!

[@Gakeee]

@@skins4thewin Oh of course lol, I've always been one to wait for a game to go on sale and seeing as this game isn't super heavily promoted or anything like that I figured I'd ask around. Thanks for responding!

[@DenniselAzul]

Thanks for the review! :)

[@Digital_Dirt]

Looks good, looking for another rogue-like, did I correctly hear you say that any skills you unlock are permanent? even through death? or did I misunderstand. are there any permanent upgrades?

[@peppage]

The skills stick with you if you want to switch to another job class which is really important to creating a strong character. Not past death though. As far as permanent it's more about the gold and items you save in your bank if you want them for the next character. Also there are talents that unlock but that just lets you choose them on the next character.

[@TheOneTrueNothing]

Digital Dirt Nothing tied to your character persists through death. What does persist is the town progress which is unique to the save slot, this includes pets, trees, items/money stored in the bank vault, and number of days (though i'm not sure what this last one does for the next character beyond affecting tree-growth). There are also three unlockable jobs and three unlockable feats available when creating a new character which are unique to each save-slot same as town progress. Hope that clears things up for you ^^

[@tomimn2233]

Cool review, just a little nitpick. Budou-ka means martial artist. Budou is martial art. The way you pronounce it is..imagine the word "Buddha" but instead of ending with an 'Ah' you end with 'Oh'

[@peppage]

Thanks! I hoped I got it right but now that you point it out I probably should have gotten that one right.

[@foreignuser_]

radical

[@Th3Chuzzl3r]

This looks cool af but (I feel like a douche saying this) it's way too girly and flowery, I wanna feel like a ruthless bloodthirsty taker of lives, and this doesn't seem to have that lol. Tbh I'm gonna give the mage class a try. Very nice review btw 👍.

[@peppage]

Thanks! I think that's fair. Sometimes I like a game a lot more when it has a theme I like.

[@Bipdark]

I need this game! Hell yeah, I need it! Please offer me this game!

[@SxSxG666]

Never heard of item world? ;)

[@daveyjones8342]

is Permadeath optional?

[@peppage]

Yes. You can choose adventure mode and when you die you'll just go back to town.

[@JDOGGOKUSSJ2]

what is rogue like?

[@digitalspecter]

A game which is somewhat like Rogue en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game) However, it's a bit weird because "roguelike" often just means permadeath and procedurally generated levels.. although to me (who played Rogue in the eighties) the main draw was RPG elements, character progression and random loot :)

[@Nemer49994]

Sadly the game does pretty much everything wrong when it comes to the game feel. I cannot fathom how you enjoyed it that much, personally I want to like this game but it feels wrong, it's either boring or super hard because your abilities and the mobs both suck so you will only struggle when there is a bunch of mobs swarming you in which case you can't do shit so it's just not interesting. The story is super bland, the characters are boring, the loot is not cool, the item dreams are often harder than the main game which makes them pointless for many items, pets suck... It's just sad, to me it feels like they desperately tried to extend the duration of their tiny game by making all mechanics super tedious so that you would spend more time on everything because everything you can do is pathetic. I beat the game without too much trouble but the only thing I felt at the end was indifference.

[@peppage]

Yeah that's a good point about the item dreams. The only thing I can say is that we like different things in a game. If you watched this than purchased the game then that's my failure for not being clear enough what is in the game.

[@Nemer49994]

I actually got it before. But yeah, to me the game just doesn't feel rewarding enough for the time it takes.

[@nowonmetube]

Rogue-like 😢😢😢 = no buy