Tattooing is OVER? - Ep 054 - BOOKS CLOSED Podcast

[@robertreyes4243]

Welcome back, Andrew! I was beginning to think we'd never see you again! I can only re-watch the old episodes so many times, so I'm excited that we are getting more episodes along with this one! As always, the interview was awesome!

[@andrewstortz]

I’m back! Thanks for watching, as always 🙌🙌

[@naryanclaudy2116]

The sad thing is there is a whole generation of tattooers who have never tattooed past midnight or made a mag needle. And THANK YOU for honoring one of the greats . Along with that a lot of these younger tattooers couldn’t tell you who Filip Leu is. But thank you!!

[@dannyderrick]

Really appreciate you including that segment at the end with Filip.

[@andrewstortz]

It was too good not to share

[@CrawlingPanther]

Finding good tattooers and tattoos is pretty hard, even with all the resources people have these days. I worked for tattoo magazines for many years, and I follow a good 200+ tattooers. My algorithm is pretty refined, and still I see a lot of bad tattoos through ads or just through what social media thinks I'll enjoy. I think there is just too much for the newcomer to process, so you're right even when they see something good, they might not be able to process it compared with everything else they're seeing. At least at first.

[@genzedsdead6165]

My algorithm is the same and as there are now so many more ads my feed is full of shitty tattooists that are advertising their page on my feed. If I didn't know better I would doubt the whole validity of the culture, how many black and grey lions and roses can you count on 1 doom scroll?

[@perforce1]

Great conversation, love to hear the different perspectives from your shop co-workers. Welcome back too!

[@andrewstortz]

Thanks for watching!

[@donskawin6657]

I'm gonna run this episode tomorrow on my headphones while tattoing but now I wanted to say "yasss, another episode"!

[@andrewstortz]

Enjoy it!

[@thetypicalblondes]

Great one guys. Made me feel better about the “apocalypse” we’re in. Real tattooers always persevere.

[@alanshepard7658]

Love the discussion and the information\point of view of everyone and I’d love to listen to everyone’s opinions without being interrupted. Keep the great work.

[@kevinavendano5157]

Awesome!!!! Welcome back! Great work as always!

[@GeesumCrow650]

Great to have come across your channel! From Southern Maine… it’s has been 20yrs since my last tattoo and the biggest difference I have found (besides the increased cost which is just how it goes) is that some places won’t even meet in person until the appointment. It’s not as personal… walk in with an idea, or pick something from a book, talk it over, sit down and go. Thank you for the content and glad to have found your shop.

[@pangeachoppers]

i used to get tattooed a ton and now i dont. i still love tattoos but for me there are a couple main factors. 1. the tattoo prices have gotten astronomical. I get that inflation is a factor but i also think there is a lot of inflated self value on the average tattooer. charge what you want, i get that but if you are going hungry or sitting around.. maybe look at what you are charging? i would rather make less and do more than charge more and sit around. 2. i used to hang out at the tattoo shop a ton, it was fun to bull shit and goof off, in turn i ended up getting/paying for a lot of tattoos... the shop i hung out at decided to be a more "professional" shop and the setting isnt as fun to be around and so me and alot of my friends stopped getting tattooed. so if you are slow maybe take a look at how you treat the customers that you want? is your shop super rigid? is your shop too relaxed? etc? 3. i think offering one day a week for walk in's is a good idea too. i know i am not going to wait months to get tattooed. i will just go to one of the other million tattoo shops if thats the case. just my two cents from someone who has backed off on getting tattooed.

[@andrewstortz]

Thanks for the comment, and for watching!

[@angusbyers]

This has been a topic of conversation at the shop, and at cons and guest spots. This video definitely hits on all the topics we’ve talked about. Tattooing has been around for 5000 years and has never been this popular before, so I guess we’re all in the process of deciding where it goes next, and that makes me stoked.

[@seancushnie974]

33:17 you absolutely nailed it. Was shouting at my computer, until you gave that opinion. Thank you

[@tattoostudioleitmotif4703]

Yeah you're back!!! And Fred Durst is doing the intro on top of that, without mentionning the Leu part!!!! Thanks Andrew, Christmas earlier than expected!!! Take care, cheers from France!

[@Rambo261]

I tattooed for 15 years, i quite this year and screen print clothing now. Much happier

[@andrewstortz]

What pushed you to move on, in the end?

[@kennyhaskins5988]

I feel like conversations like this need to happen within this community. It will only help.

[@BjarteFraVerden]

I feel many artist (espesially older) are a bit salty because competition is higher, so many artist coming out but clients also more educated than ever. The moment Econemy is back, Tattooing will reach new highs

[@jontteritontteri4575]

The thing is that clients can very rarely tell difference between work that will last and what will look like complete shit. Same with most these new from kitchen to taking apprentices dildo wizards.

[@Steven-x1p1c]

As an oldertattooer I’m not salty because of the level of art I think I’m salty honestly because they have it so fucking easy and another thing that really chaps my ass is the ego of people that you’ve only been tattooing for a couple months maybe even years like you get a draw on people and hang out with your friends don’t take yourself seriously

[@manny_themachete]

I've been tattooing 15/16 years, and tattooing has always been a pendulum style business. Ups and downs, highs and lows, where there is a very large, big high, there is the opposing side to that, which is a deep low. There was lots of extra financial income, better jobs that were also remote, 4/5 years ago, so it was busier. Its slowed down for sure. but I dont think its any one direct thing. But thats always been apart of tattooing, where we are seeing people freak out(too many people tattooing, no one gettting tattooed like they used, artist charging insane rates for work, ect.) , is this is a normal slow year, not necessarily. Its a bit slower but just how 2008 was an election year and it was brutal, it came back. Being able to whether the storm is part of this thing we are doing. Tattooing changes, it always has, and always will. Best advice is say yes to everything once, and try new things (marketing, new machines, new technics, whatever). Worst that happens, it doesn't work and you move on from it, and you gain knowledge about something you would have said no to in the past. As far as Trad Tats, its been the same way, it pendulums in popularity back and forth, i think traditional tattoos are built for speed in and out get it done, people charge alot for it now, call it custom, and do it in an hour, so people think it cost too much for the time spent. Therefore decreasing popularity right now. Things always find a way to correct itself and come back around, so itll get popular again.

[@mitchhall543]

I’m 15 plus years in tattooing. The past 5 years have been my busiest.

[@derekolancarmichael7323]

Andrew isn’t just a tattooer but a professional at heart, he seems to have an understanding on things that goes over the others heads. I can really relate

[@Steven-x1p1c]

Hahaha he’s so smart and I’m just like him wtf? Dork

[@andrewstortz]

@Steven-x1p1c please just let him compliment me! 😂

[@Steven-x1p1c]

@@andrewstortz my bad Andrew

[@Epmd419]

"Sometimes the best stuff doesn't make sense the first time you see it." Damn it that ain't the truth. Thanks for coming back - you were missed!

[@ilovecarnitas]

that was a good line.

[@jaysonlee4394]

Been at this for 31yrs.its all about adapting, versatility,customer service and providing a great product there on the spot and applying it correctly in a timely fashion.Tattooing is going back to the street shop format.

[@jerrybono]

Simple answer. Over saturation.

[@andrewstortz]

Is it that simple?

[@steventurner8870]

Yes

[@SteveJohnsHB]

Not at all. Thats the laziest answer. Do Dentist, Doctors, Car Dealerships, Coffee Shops say it’s “over saturated.” Part of the problem is too comfortable tattoo artist rely on old tactics of business practices to produce future prosperity. Simply “You can’t do the same things and expect different results”

[@conoconnor]

Andrew i love your interviews and what you're doing with this channel, I've probably watched back on all your vids at least 2/3x because I have such a love for the industry, traditional in particular. In saying that, I'm 30 minutes in and even rewinded to make sure i heard you correctly, but I'm honestly kind of shocked at your POV on what was discussed. You contradict yourself when you say it's important to do good tattoos and show people that you do good tattoos, but then turn around and say social media isn't the end all be all when it absolutely is in terms of getting new business in and growing your client base. You can even see your guests reactions when you say "just be better/do more tattoo shit" during quiet periods, while discounting the social media side. I can hear the "are you fkn kidding me" reactions. If someone is looking to get tattooed, one of the first places they turn to is social media. They find someone in their area who's posting a shit ton of decent work and that's what appears on their feed daily. That's who they go to for their first piece and that's who they'll stick with or the shop in general. This whole "that's how it's always been" simply isn't true. It's not enough to give someone a fantastic tattoo and bank on referrals or the "million other things artists can do better for themselves" outside of social media in other to gain new clients. Idk man, again I love your work and I can't wait for Julian's episode Monday, but I really don't understand your angle so far on this one

[@EyeHardWay]

Great episode.

[@jakobkerschbaumertattoo]

Great conversation on topics, that are relevant for many people in tattooing at the moment. Thank you for putting it out there!🙏 Your view that Tattooing is something that is constantly evolving, is very true and also just necessary for it to stay relevant as an artform - of course the ways of Marketing are changing as well! Many of the most valued and busiest tattooers at the moment might just be the best in marketing themselfs or a Lifestyle that gets a lot of peoples attention, or where people can aspire to. Which is fine, and with our society and especially the Internet where everything is super commodified, this dynamic makes Perfect sense. But it also adds on to the Situation where more Seasoned tattooers that dedicated their lifes to tattooing and in many ways provided this Situation for us younger Generations are being pushed to the side, needing sidehustles or even change carreers because they cant easily adapt to new ways of staying relevant. No one should be resented for „making a shitload of Money“ but caring for tattooing as an Art and craft involves also to Check ourselfs and ask: am i just proviting from a Situation that has been provided from people before me?… And if so, trying to find ways where I can also give something back to Tattoooing itself :) - And this is why it is Great to hear that you guys are doing good in tattooing and also adding something Great to Tattooing by opening up such discussions! Thank you🙏

[@andrewstortz]

Thanks for the comment, and glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@tattoosbyreb8837]

The over saturation is real, I live in a small town of 11,000 people that has 7 shops.

[@andrewstortz]

How long have you been tattooing in that town?

[@DirtySk8RatStaney]

Yeah I think people who know will go to the experienced shops… but the thing is not everyone knows, and a lot of people think “a tattoo shop is a tattoo shop” so they’re not gonna know that the experience they’ll have at a nice shop will keep them coming back. We’ve seen this quite a bit here in Plattsburgh as like four or five random shops have opened up, and I’m seeing people getting fucked up all over Facebook. The worst part is they don’t even know they’re getting fucked up?!…. It’s crazy how many people will just trust anyone with a tattoo machine…..

[@Evan_L]

My two biggest ways of finding artists: 1) referrals from friends 2) if I look at your instagram and see rad tattoos that I would want.

[@warlich]

very helpful podcast

[@andrewstortz]

Thanks for watching!

[@joeb3008]

When I would go on vacation 10 years ago I would be the only heavily tattooed person at the pool and have tons of eyeballs on me. Now I’m just another guy. So the demand is there. I stopped getting tattooed because I just simply can’t afford it. In NYC, Prices were $150 an hour 10 years ago now it’s $250 for anybody regardless of experience. My giant side piece destroyed me financially for a year spending $10k . I just can’t in this economy. Most people I chat with just can’t swing it in this economy

[@andrewstortz]

Thanks for sharing that, it’s definitely a valid anecdote for this conversation. 🙌

[@joeb3008]

@@andrewstortzI just think everyone has one , they’re saying I’m good for the time being,,t’s expensive times so let’s just be frugal especially with fun expenses unfortunately

[@SashaJean-x8z]

I bought a tattoo gun so I can just do it myself instead of pay thousands. I'm also a gifted artist so I figured why not - much cheaper option

[@michaelsharrard3627]

@@SashaJean-x8z😂

[@chrissajdik]

Come to Canada, I’ll tattoo you for a donut

[@Maudtattoos]

I just heard another podcast talking about two tattooers from the late 1800s-early 1900s, and they mentioned that these two tattooers would get more clients/advertise by getting on the news paper, and sometimes they would do things to get more attention, like lie and say they tattooed someone from the royal family, or would do stunts like tattoo a tiger tamer while the tiger was in the cage with them….so idk if tattooing as ever been JUST about the tattoos, tattooers have been doing/saying wild stuff to bring in clients

[@andrewstortz]

A great point

[@genzedsdead6165]

Supply and Demand has a lot more variables than just saturation, in theory more people getting tattooed means more tattoers so no problem right? But you have to account for trend and desirability changing as supply increases, the ease of access to this subculture through instagram means a type of person that both gets and becomes a tattoer now has access to a world that was hard to enter before. As the volume of more 'normal' people fill out the scene it becomes culturally weaker, hence the saltiness and bad feeling. Also newcomers that come into tattooing quickly through the channel of fashion & influencer bullshit will be the first to start discounting and burning the house down on their way to the next trend. Its a cycle every subculture has to endure. I worked in skateboarding in the late 90s when the Tony Hawk Pro Skater came out, the number of skateshops grew by around 5000% and dropped by the same number 2 years later...

[@dillshepherd713]

people don't need tattoos. I'm gonna be honest you should be saving your money on things that you know you need like for food paying bills ect.. On the other hand tattoos help some people in different ways. Either way the tattoo world has changed so much.

[@johnb2122]

have tons of clients who have spent a lot of money with me because I did one friday the 13th tattoo on them once lol. For context however, our friday the 13th flash is $40 still.

[@louielucifer7666]

5 year tattooer here, the economy situation hit me hard, alot of my clientele are ppl in their 20's with barely any money to spare these days

[@davidsteelman9959]

Maybe tattoos that appeal to people with more steady income, is a good game plan.

[@lowristocrat3824]

Theres a shop in portsmouth other than HOBO's ???

[@daniiv4325]

Free time is a bad thing when u got bills to pay cuz

[@Tattitoot]

The market is oversaturated, thats all, yes more people are getting tattooed and sleeved etc but there are just way more tattooers

[@LeroyMustang]

This could easily be fixed with education requirements. Take a look at Oregon, 600 hour basic training requirements and that means far fewer casual entries into the tattoo environment. Go over to Washington state, a river over from Portland and it’s just junk and over saturated again. How come it’s harder to become a massage therapist or hairstylist?

[@seancushnie974]

Also, when you have so many artists doing Traditional, with a similar, specific aesthetic, and the bar to do it well can be achieved in a few years of experience, their all finding themselves battling over clients and the pool gets very diluted.

[@Chagotattoos]

Mijo!!!!!!

[@newyardleysinclair9960]

I never did get a tattoo. Im 38 now so doubt i ever will. Way past my 'making dumb decisions' stage

[@Patriot6669]

It was an expensive fashion fad. Plus most tattooers have big egos and don't treat clients as well as a customer should be treated.

[@tattoosbyreb8837]

Playing the internet game is fine, but the problem is platforms keep changing the algorithm.

[@andrewstortz]

I think that’s the game

[@perrocomeperro7948]

25:00 i guess people is wondering how are they going to pay the bills with all this free time they have

[@donnieka696]

WALTER MCDONALD EPISODE PLEAAASE

[@Steven-x1p1c]

There’s a cool little mini doc on his son and lifetime. It’s pretty cool.

[@aetonshirdlu]

A lot of things changed for the worse over time. Even Vinny Stigma has become a carbon copy of Bowzer from Sha Na Na. He didn't start off that way.

[@ericgoodman3305]

The only way to get work is to do work.

[@MADBurrus]

lol….tattooing will never be over ….what will be over is a bunch of whiny ass non artistic money grabbers trying to turn tattooing into a “business” like a hair styling salon . Sorry to tell you but tattooing is punk rock and underground and none of that has EVER involved “appointments” hahahaha or media marketing….its tattooing…..you don’t have to advertise and market if you’re good and cool to the people….that’s the problem…most people are trying to stay busy tattooing because no one wants to get tattooed by them.

[@andrewstortz]

lol do you tattoo?

[@MADBurrus]

@ yessir…30 plus years and I know the industry better than anyone….

[@andrewstortz]

Ok, just making sure. Thanks for watching 🤘

[@FILBELLO]

@@MADBurrusthat’s why you can talk like that, cause you started 30 years ago

[@lynkkillby4360]

People that got tattooed when I started are dead now lol 39 years this year

[@andrewstortz]

39 years is a great run! Good thing all those old clients had kids and grandkids 😂

[@lynkkillby4360]

Right

[@angusbyers]

You rule, Lynk!

[@lynkkillby4360]

@@angusbyers only my own actions

[@HobbyWeyers]

First

[@andrewstortz]

You did it 👏👏

[@seancushnie974]

Johnny P sounds like sour grapes.

[@andrewstortz]

It’s a fair question if that’s how you see things 🤷‍♂️

[@Steven-x1p1c]

Hahaha buyer’s remorse

[@baker3person]

Too many podcasts. Tattooing used to be cool now it’s just another corny KZbin channel. People won’t get them if it is another corny thing

[@andrewstortz]

Tattoo magazines were corny too

[@jerryakbar6147]

American electric tattoo ( Craig jackman) is dead. Very few walk ins and lots of small ridiculous scribbles on incells . Hard or impossible to make the shop rent on sunset. In a culture where lads buy relic fender Stratocaster that look like they’ve been played for 25 years but are brand new , not too surprising. Enjoy your Amazon America…

[@Steven-x1p1c]

China

[@astrorobinson3716]

Traditional tattooing is awful