Why A Sly 5 Would Be DOOMED For Failure

Sly Cooper is a neat little series of games with a rather unfortunate attempted revival. It's now been a number of years since Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time. Since then hopes have been high for a sequel to correct some of the mistakes of that revival. Hopes that have slowly dwindled as the years go by. For those of us living in reality at least. With that said, many have expressed their desire to have a Sly 5, however, nobody seems to want to admit that there's one critical issue with a hypothetical Sly 5. The fact that they were written into a corner so thoroughly, that continuing the story as presented is nigh impossible to do in a creatively satisfying way. Let's discuss.
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[@TBP]

Just so we're clear, I really don't care about Sly anymore. So do with that what you will.

[@Reigndolph]

Ok.

[@anonluxor470]

As sly Cooper fan I respect your decision

[@larrytod9790]

I don't have a problem with that my friend

[@mido3332]

Ok drama queen, why did you make this video in the first place then?

[@robertcherman]

I don't have a problem with that, but why did you make the video? When you are your own boss and you can make videos about anything you wish. Why are you making videos about things you don't care about? Wouldn't your time be better spent on things you do care about?

[@limitbreakryan]

I know Sanzaru mentioned the ending in Egypt was meant to lead into a DLC that gave a true ending. I do agree with your points & I feel the best option would be either to reboot the series (make the 1st game free roam) or make a new game but continue from 3 rather than 4

[@elharvey5032]

Sly 1 Remake would definitely look phenomenal with the same graphics as the new Ratchet and Clank game, not to mention an open world similar to Sly 2

[@FraserSouris]

If that DLC thing is true, then I feel it was an even worse decision. Firstly, it would leave a bad taste in people's mouths. You make a game's story unfinished, you need to get the platinum to see a cliffhanger, then pay money to get the real ending. Not a good move. Secondly, Most people don't buy story based DLCs. Rockstar, who made GTA and RDR games, that have sold collectively 200 million units, had DLCs that sold 2 million each. So for a Sly game that sold 600k at best, how many of them would buy the DLC? Then what happens with Sly 5? *>" & I feel the best option would be either to reboot the series (make the 1st game free roam) or make a new game but continue from 3 rather than 4"

[@TylerTheShepherd]

@@FraserSouris what do mean “would” leave a bad taste. Thieves in Time “is” already leaving a bad taste for the whole franchise after what sanzaru did to Penelope and Sly. A DLC to thieves in time would be an easier way to fix what sanzaru did without the need to go through an entire process of creating a whole new game.

[@FraserSouris]

@@TylerTheShepherd *>"what do mean “would” leave a bad taste. Thieves in Time “is” already leaving a bad taste for the whole franchise""A DLC to thieves in time would be an easier way to fix what sanzaru did without the need to go through an entire process of creating a whole new game."

[@TylerTheShepherd]

@@FraserSouris not if the price is reasonable. Many games have add-ons or extensions for about $2. Plus we first need to get thieves in time ported to ps5 anyway. If they want they can turn it into a extended version. And bacons statement about the interaction problem isn’t that a problem to begin with, merely an opinion. At the least, it needs one cutscene to get the cast together. After that we just need a reason for them to be in Egypt for a little longer. If sucker punch wasn’t all focused on their ghost of Tsushima game they could fix that issue, if not better.

[@ryguy9876]

To me, it sounds like Theives in Time should just be retconned; it's causing way too many problems.

[@TheBasedTyrant]

Bentley could just find an object that allows him to go back in time to before Penelope was acting suspicious, send an anonymous tip to Carmelita who then with the help of Sly, who is still an Interpol officer bust Le Paradox before the events of Thieves in Time, this reconning everything. Then TiT Bentley leaves in his time machine and post Honor among Thieves Bentley never finishes building his. There you have it, a brand new sparkling timeline less contrived then Sanzaru's writing, without having to totally retcon it. Edit: Okay I see he actually explained that he thought of this idea and finds it unacceptable, so how about this, Sly 4 leaves the time traveling tipster anonymous so that it isn't revealed who resolved the timeline or when. After Sly 4 goes on to be a true to form success that restores the series there will be more energy for Sly Cooper thieves in time 2 which will resolve the Egypt cliffhanger and resolve in revealing who traveled back in time to start the events of Sly 4.

[@ashterrifictales7317]

Man, we wouldn’t even have this problem if Sanzaru just didn’t have such a horrible ending!!! Giving us the cliffhangers of Penelope missing AND Sly in Egypt… that’s what makes the series just fall apart in the end instead of having a satisfying conclusion like the 3rd game did…

[@TerrorOfTalos]

​@ryan jones For anything that's not video games like shows, movies, comics and books I agree but video games are unique in that the focus should *always* be on creating a story around a game and not vice versa. This means it's not as easy to wrap all plot points up in a single game because the *game* has to focus on other aspects, this does vary for sure but overall it's much more difficult to tell a fulfilling story in a game than any other entertainment medium.

[@firionkaiser8291]

@ryan jones I dont think they were hoping for anything really

[@firionkaiser8291]

@ryan jones Cause it was supposed to be DLC. Egypt was originally going to be in base game but the PS Vita version wasn't going to fit it all in. So they planned to add it as DLC to finish off the story with a true ending, but that never happened for reasons.

[@firionkaiser8291]

@ryan jones They were certain though. They literally had everything scripted and ready to go. Sony was the one that abruptly denied them to add in the DLC. If they hadn't denied them we would've gotten the full ending. Sony cut them short.

[@ChampionofLight2]

This is also on Sucker Punch for doing a cliffhanger ending to Sly 3...

[@Manjawline]

I'd prefer seeing full remakes of the original trilogy over Sly 5 any day

[@Settiis]

Same

[@jayDee92133]

I'm good with the remasters I want 5.

[@elharvey5032]

I highly agree, Sanzaru's worst mistake was leaving a cliffhanger to game many people didn't accept, I'd rather have a remake of the Thievous Raccoonus instead because it has the potential to become the best Sly game with the right formula: Graphics similar to the new Ratchet and Clank, a darker and more serious story, and gameplay similar to that of Sly 2-4

[@WarpChaos]

@@elharvey5032 To be fair, there was supposed to be DLC to Thieves in Time to resolve the cliffhanger, but Sony cancelled it.

[@elharvey5032]

@@WarpChaos Yeah because Thieves in Time sold poorly back when it first released, what sanzaru should have done was end the game with Sly escaping back in the Blimp and still have the Penelope escaping prison

[@matthewlewis757]

They could make the story about Sly coordinating a centuries long heist with everyone else. Him preparing the ground work while also leaving small notes and clues in the past, and the rest of the gang trying to figure said clues out and dealing with the changes in the plan that happaned because of changes due to the flow of time.

[@thomasmadden3080]

Naughty Dog do this

[@xthewhitewolf]

​@@thomasmadden3080 uh, did you see the disaster that is TLoU2? Yeah...no thanks...

[@ana-esthesiac]

If only Sly 4 could be declared non-canon, a lot of this mess could be salvaged

[@viiixixo8026]

It certainly is non-canon to me!!

[@skibot9974]

One idea I had for a potential Sly 5 is (albiet a weak one) is the fact nothing outright states Sly is in ANCIENT Egypt. People just assume that because the Sphinx still has its nose but I don't recall us ever seeing a Noseless Sphinx in the Sly universe. So maybe the Sphinx never lost its nose in the Sly universe and Sly was only sent back in time a few days. So first level ends with Sly reunited with the gang. Then the group finds out that Penalope has escaped from prison but also Bently fings a recording log that suggests she was being controlled by some other force in the previous game. Yes you cited the monolouge as the issue but I was thinking maybe some technological parasite warping her mind. With the plot of the game finind a way to destroy the robotic parasite and find out who created it. With each heist offering them a lead towards a cure and about half way through we meet the mastermind who is INSERT CHARACTER HERE Again its not the best idea but it was the best solution I could think of to the issue you proposed

[@ashterrifictales7317]

I actually like this idea!!!

[@elharvey5032]

Inserted character: Clockwerk, plus it makes perfect sense since one of his abilities is mind control

[@jackmafo832]

@@elharvey5032 *CULT OF Clockwerk

[@missmarshmallow5775]

You guys forget that Sly 2 introduced spices that dramatically increase one's aggresiveness which could easily explain the unhinged behaviour... So add the spice drugging and decibel's hypnosis.

[@PixiePoison90]

He shoots, he scores! Another great Sly vid there, dude. Great points, eloquently put and my thoughts EXACTLY! Until an official announcement comes from Sony about Sly 5, I believe nothing. And I highly doubt it'll come. As you say, remake/reboot is much more likely. Next year's 20th anniversary of the first game would be the prime time. Totally agree with you on favourite franchises ending too - with others carrrying on, it's hard to see a favourite end. But Sly 3 was perfectly wrapped up and Thieves in Time was unnecessary, even though the hardcore fan in me would love to see another Sly entry. Not following Thieves in Time however - if a Crash 4-esque retcon can be achieved and done right, that's my bag right there! XD

[@zoruathefox]

you still end up with a time related story because of sly 3's ending... which people seem to have forgot bentley still mentions hes making a time machine.. so yes sly 4 was necessary because in the end it still has a time related story... all they got to to is remake sly 1 to 4 but include that finished DLC story they had planned all them years ago which is the egypt story also for a 5th game they can add time travel into the gameplay its self like how ratchet and clank rift apart had you go thru rifts into other dimensions but have it time related instead, could have a door filled with lasers use this time device to go back in time before the building was finished go thru use the device again could also have dedicated bits of the level using this where your mostly in parts of the past or future trying to beat that part of the level then go back to present like how rift apart did it, this way not the whole story relies on time

[@vaultboya6253]

I love the sly franchise. One of my favorites growing up. But it's been over 2 decades since the first entry. Most likely a new one will never come out. It's kinda like Bully by Rockstar. Just lots of fake leaks and no real word on anything involving these series. I just don't think these games have a real chance of ever receiving new entries.

[@ExoParadigmGamer]

Personally, I think they should just straight up reboot this series. If you ask me, part of the reason why so many people dropped out of Sly between 3 and 4 was not just changing trends or players getting older; it's the fact that by the end the gameplay was stale and played out. There's a reason why 3 focused so much on random minigames; there's just only so much you can do with that premise. There were so many games released between 2005 and 2013 that were doing what Sly did, only much better. Infamous took open world parkour and ran with it. Metal Gear reinvented stealth action a 100 times over. The Batman Arkham games offered a robust version of many of Sly's gameplay pillars: open world romps with an emphasis on stealth, hand-to-hand combat, and a dark, unfolding story with high stakes. So if they really have to continue the Sly series and make it worth playing, they need to go the Breath of the Wild route and majorly reinvent this series. That was a game that took a series that was running out of ideas and took it in a new direction, to radical critical and commerical success. It reinvigorated people's interest in that series. So I say, take the open world concept and run with it: make one big Paris world with tons of set pieces, scattered villain lairs, and tons of mini-encounters and side quests. Think Arkham City with Sly Cooper. You can drive around town in the van, get into car chases with police or mafiosos, or climb onto a tall building and paraglide across town. Reinvent the combat so it's not so shallow and button mashy. Orchestrate some tight, precise stealth sections. Get rid of all the extra characters and random minigames and focus on buffing up Sly and his gameplay. There's a precedent for these kinds of tour de force open world games, and it would be easy to market as a bold reinvention of a familiar franchise; a perfect way to rope in new and old consumers alike. And if they reboot it, they can ignore Sly 4 without alienating either side of that divide. They don't have to try to top the stakes of a time travel plot; they can just tell an engaging, straightforward story with likeable characters and escalating stakes. Of course, studios like Sony don't like to take big risks with a proven poor seller like Sly, so you're right that if they do anything with the series again, they'll probably just rush out a trilogy remake. It's the safest, most marketable thing they could do with this property.

[@TrashComment]

They could soft reboot it after the 3rd game like crash 4 did.

[@mongojrttv]

Sly Cooper was years ahead of their time. Open world with a hub structure with heist. EDIT: I'd be happy if they just remastered the main games. EDIT 2: Does anyone know what KZbin channel that clip was from? I'm racking my brain and I can't think of it.

[@crubexzero9283]

The only beneficial thing I could see (and it would be incredibly difficult to pull off believably, let alone for each chapter) would be to have Sly operating exclusively in the past, but communicating with the team. Sly’s missions would alter the present in some way and the rest of the team would act on those changes, and each chapter would warp Sly closer to the present in some way. But I can’t think of many situations where having an operative 1000 years ago would really help the present operatives.

[@DutchBlackMantha]

Story wise, I'd take inspiration from Day of the Tentacle; the crew is seperated in time, but things Sly does have consequenses for the gang in the present. The intro mission can be Sly breaking into some guarded place to leave a message he knows will be discovered the right year, and will be discovered when the gang starts searching in the present. After that, you will need to have some way for the gang to communicate, but not bring Sly back. And achieving a rescue has to last a whole game. Here's an idea for a plot that can also address the broken character relations: Sly is trying to change everything that went wrong in the last game, which is why he remains in the past; he *can* get back, but as long as he doesn't he can still change the timeline. That certainly sounds complex enough for a full game. And the biggest goal is to change who Penelope becomes. Normally that's would be really problematic (is it even the same person?), but I would retcon her face-heel turn as the result of a previous time manipulation. That's not completely out of left field, with changing the timeline being established canon, although that doesn't explain why people remember her as she was before. But it has bigger problems. Undoing important events from the last game can retroactively rob them of their meaning, if not handled carefully. And more importantly, for this to work the player will *need* to have played Sly 4. A big ask after much time. This is starting to sound more like a plot for a fanfic. And I don't really have a solution to putting the time-travel genie back in the bottle. One common solution is to show that messing with the timeline will backfire and not be worth it. Works with the plot I proposed. But this is A) usually rather contrived and B) would make Sly 4's plot a bit pointless. I will have to agree with you. Some stories are just not designed to be extendable. Zelda manages it by basically rebooting the setting every game.

[@UndiagnosedGarbage]

Had a similar idea I just commented, just saw this though.

[@AnubisBlackGamez]

Honestly I'd prefer a midquel game that takes place between the 1st and 2nd game or of course a remake

[@GroovyWill]

I appreciate some of the sentiments here, but I have some polite disagreements on a few fundamentals. Firstly, Sly Cooper Thieves In Time doesn't have to be the fourth game forever - it can be ignored for a much more competent and faithful narrative installment and I believe most franchise fanatics like myself would be on board with writing over it, rather than around it. That'd necessitate some questions, like "what'd a Sly 4 be about? How do you further satisfy already greatly explored characters? What would be the theme the villains are designed to riff on?" That's a subject for maybe another video and a handful of narrative-minded brains to really, thoroughly discuss. On one hand, I get the notion that each Sly games' significance cements their place in the canon as perfect installments, and that to continue on would be outright betrayal or exhaustion of the point of the story and characters. On the other hand, the franchise and its' exploration doesn't have to be so ephemeral - hell, with something so narratively competent, why should it? The characters' sagas as Thieves is over, but they all have room for exploration on the other end of the law as Sly 3s' ending had depicted, and there's no reason to say the characters aren't adaptable, entertaining or explorable enough to merit more writing. This'd beg more of the same questions and more of others, like "how will they change? What can we tell about them? What actions do they take to satisfy their arcs?" Maybe it's too self-indulgent to harp on the hypotheticals - but the hypotheticals are what this video's about. To say Sly 5 can't start with the detached Cooper gang group dynamic and still feel 'not-disjointed' feels maybe less than accurate. Sly 3 started with Murray being separated entirely from the gang and their reunion was celebrated and written well. It's not HORRIBLY different going into a potential 4 either, with everyone indulged in their own hobbies and interests, Sly now in company of his old cat-and-mouse pursuer rather than his best friends. It's not that I'm saying I prefer a story where Sly can't be reunited with his friends - that's a subject I feel is the largest source of tension for us all seeing the end of Sly 3 end in such abstract optimism, that Sly and the gang are happy, even if, for as far as we can tell, they are forever apart. But uh, hey, I think that's all my asterisks, I'm a part of the fanbase too so I might as well throw my stupid two cents up. Keep up the good work on these videos and the whatnot

[@FraserSouris]

*>"Firstly, Sly Cooper Thieves In Time doesn't have to be the fourth game forever - it can be ignored for a much more competent and faithful narrative installment and I believe most franchise fanatics like myself would be on board with writing over it, rather than around it"

[@erindelgado9639]

Yeah as you make good points why Sly 5 is quite impossible. But I feel the series does need closure. I do have a friend who did a Sly 5 fanfic as it fixes the problems Thieves in Time did, also the Penelope part and also has Clockwerk as the main villain, and ends the series on a good note. Not perfect as it does have flaws but it has some effort and passion by a Sly fan. I could link it to you if you want.

[@alirashid8272]

Yo could u link it?

[@elharvey5032]

Where's the link

[@Hugo-em9zn]

Where is it

[@ddm_gamer]

we never go the link

[@xthewhitewolf]

Welp.

[@treddox5880]

The personal issue I have with the idea of remaking the trilogy is that unlike the original crash and Spyro games, the graphics have actually aged pretty well. The cell shading, the cartoony simplicity, upscaling it does wonders for it. I don’t want them to remake the first three games. I just want them to freaking re-release them. I haven’t checked in a while, but are they still only available on PlayStation’s subscription service?

[@treddox5880]

@@tabreezsiddique That’s a huge bummer. How hard can it be to just resell the HD trilogy? The Sly Cooper franchise isn’t huge or anything, but it’s a part of Sony’s history. But Ratchet and Clank seem to be the ones who get all the love.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

@@tabreezsiddique the four jak games were PS2 games, sly 1- 3 can probably be made available for a digital purchase since they had a PS2 version but sly TiT was only on PS3 which is a lot trickier due to PS3’s unique cell processing unit.

[@smcrevival1467]

@@treddox5880 it's cuz sly doesn't have dedicated devs like ratchet and clank

[@mrconroy4672]

Either remake the trilogy or reboot the series altogether retconning the fourth. Simple.

[@azurewarrior2000]

Thieves in Time has *so much* baggage to deal with that the *only* way to have a new game be made is to completely retcon it and make a true Sly 4, have it continue from Sly 3 proper and most of all, *don't let Sanzaru touch the series again and have a trusted developer handle the game and Sucker Punch handle the writing.*

[@bradpollard444]

Sly Cooper should have just ended at 3. It had a good ending. For Sly 4 I feel like the ending really tarnished the legacy of Sly Cooper. I'm thinking everyone felt disappointment.

[@elharvey5032]

There's a reason Sucker Punch choose to end the game series at 3, other than to focus on other games, but I wouldn't mind a remake of the Thievous Raccoonus

[@saloz9483]

If another sly had to be done then they should've just let it be a massive time skip and have new characters maybe some of them can be kids or relatives of the old cast.

[@bradpollard444]

@@saloz9483 isn't that called a reboot?

[@saloz9483]

@@bradpollard444 It would still be a sequel as its it would be in the same universe with some or all characters related to the older cast just with a big time jump. If the devs still wanted to keep the all or some of the original characters around they could they would just be old is all.

[@bradpollard444]

@@saloz9483 I feel like Sanzaru's biggest misstep was ending Sly 4 on a cliff hanger. Like if they would have ended it better then the legacy of Sly Cooper wouldn't have been as damaged as much as it was. Sly Cooper 3 is my favorite.

[@HaveARottenDay]

You know the WORST thing about all this was? Thieves In Time tried to imply Sly 3 was on a cliff hanger. Think, Sly 3, end credits scene. Bentley says “Who knows if we’ll meet again. Time will tell. Literally! Because I’m building a time machine to find out!” It was just a GAG. But Sly 4 ran with it and butchered was was a childhood favorite franchise of mine lol

[@skibot9974]

Kevin Miller confirmed that it was always intended to be a sequel hook

[@HaveARottenDay]

@@skibot9974 1- Where? Source? 2- He’s just the VA isn’t he? Not the writer, so… How would he know?

[@Guyinadifferentroom]

A trilogy remake and making the 4th non canon is the best route. It could be a fever dream or something. It's dumb but I'd take it

[@xthewhitewolf]

Subjective.

[@ForestOfSleep]

The Best case scenario at this point is hand-waving the rescue with a montage in the opening cutscene and having them get back to what they do best. But at that point just reboot it.

[@gam3rtim352]

I would probably do a Rhombus of Ruin type move. Do a single level sized deal that has Sly work on building a beacon in his time so the team can locate him. Probably with Bentley and Murray communicating through a surviving gadget or something to help. Maybe run into Slytunkhamen while stealing machine parts from locals and nobles. It would either be free or real cheap due to it essentially being a demo. That would still be sloppy but it’s an idea. Edit: I would love a trilogy Remake/Remaster like Crash and Spyro got. I was just spitballing how they could wrap up that cliffhanger with “minimal” hemorrhaging.

[@KevinSanchez-ol3jd]

As much as I disagree with some of the thing in the video. It’s still good to watch these. Gives you a bigger insight the problems sly has. And hopefully someone at Sony see videos like these

[@brysonlepage3003]

One idea that could be cool is combating Clockwerk through time, with each era of Clockwerk being different in personality, spurred on with(if the gang has time travel and Clockwerk being very tech savy) work with Penelope(with potentially a redemption with a sacrifice for Bently in leading to a similar situation of the ending of Sly 2 but she gets Bently out at her expense considering she still cares for him) and maybe even bringing back Doctor M unironically with Clockwerk bringing them through time/a different time to get revenge on Sly, Dr M wanting the fortune and Penelope wanting Sly gone, and Clockwerk originally complying just to keep her on board, but him wanting to eradicate the entire legacy, and knowing Bently is the one who was most responsible for fixing it in Thieves in Time attempts to take the rest of the original gang out

[@saloz9483]

I hated what they did with the penelope story. It made zero sense and it doesn't even make me want another part.I would buy a remake of the first 3 games screw the 4th one like you said. I wouldn't want to go through 4 again.

[@doublet6118]

To show how 'smart' Sanzaru was while making Sly 4, the only reason the cliffhanger even exists is because they were planning to make the Egypt level DLC and to serve as an actual conclusion to the game. And then the game didn't sell so Sony said 'No DLC'. Sigh.

[@TBP]

I used to think this story was bullshit, but I realized that there might be more truth to it than I gave credit for. I used to think; why would they leave a story incomplete and then finish it with dlc? But then I remembered there's precedent. Azura's Wrath was a game that was supposed to get a sequel to finish up the story, but the game ended up flopping, so Capcom released the story conclusion as DLC after it became clear that they couldn't justify the cost of a sequel. I think that whatever the plan was for this hypothetical DLC; was originally supposed to be the opening chapter for what Sanzaru games were planning for a fifth game. But after it became clear that Sony wasn't going to give them the green light for a fifth game, they tried to pitch the same thing as DLC just to tie things up, but Sony probably weren't willing to give them even that. So whatever their idea was, it died on the hospital floor.

[@Delicashilous]

@@TBP Azura's Wrath is Absolute Quality. So much Emotions, so much Drama, so much Badassness. Absolute Hidden gem.

[@doublet6118]

@@TBP For the life of me I can't remember where it is but I do recall in an interview (long post-sly 4 release) one of the Sanzaru people said the DLC idea was considered and came about because they were running out of time while working on the game, which is obviously a common theme for video game development. Regardless, it is what it is.

[@TBP]

Well that's probably just a PR spin, if you're working in a big company, you're not going to disclose the fact that your product flopped and the publisher won't let you continue as you planned.

[@skibot9974]

@@TBP I think I heard that them developing on Vita as well caused them to not have room for Egypt in the base game

[@zephyrstrife4668]

Honestly... It would be better if they just didn't use time travel. Because any time you have time travel, it opens up so many different plot holes that everything becomes terrible.

[@anonluxor470]

I think a remake/reboot is the only option at this point

[@idontcareredacted1991]

I'd take a 10 or 20 minute short film explaining how Sly got back home any day, to be honest.

[@mikeshultz6562]

Something that i find interesting is no reference to Clockwerk in number 4 even though in 1, sly mentions the silhouette behind Jesse, uhtemkamen, and some of the others, but yet when sly shows up, no mention. Starting in Egypt could have sly interacting with uhtemkammen, revealing himself to clockwerk, writing his location in the thievius raccoonus, and now clockwerk is heading to take down sly from when the fiendish five appear. Bentley, Carmelita (on the outs because of sly's betrayal), and Murray must find Raleigh and Ms. Ruby to learn more about clockwerk to find something to use to lead back to sly to find him in exchange for some favor with prison. As the team regroup, they have to stop clockwerk from hurting other family members along the way to help young sly.

[@Jameswantgaming]

I'd love to see a sly 1 remake with the sly 2/3 style. then I could die happy

[@MrDj232]

Or you could trap Sly in the past permanently and have him become his own ancestor. He could establish his family of thieves, start writing the Thevius Racoonus, and maybe even jump through the timeline a little as Sly's descendants develop their own new skills to add to the book. Then cap it off with Sly avoiding getting trapped in the past because he had these extra abilities. I know it's a paradox, but there's a lot more room for story and mechanics than focusing on the rest of the cast trying to save him

[@Delicashilous]

Sly 1-3 is canon. Sly 4 is goofy, and insult for every Character. Suckerpunch are The only one who can bring back the mature dialouge, and badass vibes. Edit: But sly 3 is the perfect ending for the story, sly, made his Development, and his Friends too. He left being a thiev Because he saw what could happen to him, and his friends through other villains & his father. He realized his friendship with murray & bentley is unqiue, while other thiev groups getting to prison, die or betray each other. And he saw he wanted a life with camelita after he reached Everything he really wanted. He made his redemption in sly 1, made sure his arch Enemy will never return for his family in sly 2, and made his most important realization about his life ( what I mentioned above)+ he absolved the Ultimate ancestor cooper trial/test, and got worthy of the cooper legacy. The canon is finsihed in a solid Trillogy, and I'm happy with that.

[@SharkYNate]

agree

[@CooperGal24]

It's pretty bad enough when the storyline is crappy, but when the writers decide to just turn a completely great character into a villain with a crappy excuse, THAT'S an all time low. I hope Sucker Punch does a decent Sly 4 in the near future! Least Crash 4's storyline is great and easy to follow! (Although a bit weird with the Time User villain paired with his female counterpart, not gonna lie...) Also, can I ask HOW it's possible for Le Paradox's hair to go from black with a white streak, to pure white and back to black with a white streak?! Like, HELLO!? Game doesn't make no sense, no matter how much I enjoyed the gameplay and mechanics. And the talk of taking away Group Dynamic is almost like how General Mills took away the fruit shapes in Trix cereals and replaced them with colorful balls! Well we can see how much the fans liked that... Thank god the fruit shapes came back! And don't forget that there's some games that've gotten stuck at the end with the storyplots! The original Spyro series? Cliffhanger without revealing WHO this mysterious enemy is AND why he's doing all of this! Again, with Crash, the writers just basically started over storywise, starting after Crash 3. And YES! PENELOPE! THAT was I was trying to EXPLAIN! Penelope's motives, excuses AND roles as a villain MAKES NO SENSE! Granted, if she was a villain in the SAME game she first appeared in, THAT'D make sense at least. But then again, that'd be like reusing Neyla, but as a mouse in Sly 3. Give the girl a break! She's done so much good during the events of Sly 3! "OH but she was the BLACK BARON, so she was a VILLAIN!" NOPE! She was the Black Baron to BYPASS THE AGE RESTRICTION RULES OF THE ACES COMPETITION! She only kept up that persona because she didn't know what would happen if she suddenly revealed herself to the world! But since she was beaten fair and square by Sly AND her disguise was revealed after that, then she had no reason to keep the Baron Persona anymore! Also, WHY would she suddenly turn to "The Dark Side" when she has a group of friends, the chance to be free and not stuck in the same everyday role of a disguised life, be a big help to a gang AND has a BOYFRIEND? And "Working for MONEY"? So what was all of that shiny gold stuff and items in the Cooper Vault? Chocolate coins, rock candy jewels and toys? Note the sarcasm here. But making Penelope as a "Secret surprised shockingly twisted value villain" is not only a wrong move, it's already been used before in Sly 2: With NEYLA. The difference is that Neyla was ALSO a "Secret Surprise" MAIN villain, with her excuse for wanting the ClockWerk parts AND to be immortal being JUST as poorly written and bad as "Bad Penelope"'s excuse. Ugh...I think the writers from Sucker Punch should've been brought in here to do the writing, not the staff at Sanzaru!

[@TylerTheShepherd]

I agree that sanzaru didn’t do a good job with the Penelope plot twist. But I just assumed that this going bad thing is just temporary thing, given how she keeps sending him postcards at the end despite all that has happen. I have seen dozens of stories of fallen friends that went bad end up going back to their friends for different reasons. They were probably going to fix this in the sequel they had hope to make but never got to.

[@saloz9483]

Yea when that happened it really screwed up my experience.

[@mrconroy4672]

Here’s a better idea, do a hard reboot of the series or at least remake the trilogy and retcon the fourth.

[@Smoshylife]

A true sly 5 would’ve come out in 2007, one year after 2006 which should’ve been sly 4. The time gap between the games is what ruined it

[@phoenixedge7763]

Honestly I think the safe thing to do is do a series reboot like soul calibur 6 but have future sly try to warn his younger self about the things that could happen

[@178laaleros]

I would love to see a remake of the original sly game on ps5 that would super awesome thank god no sly 5 happened. Sly 4 was a let down

[@angusmcfootball]

Character Writing Assassinations/Flanderization Summarized: Sly - Was turned into a cringe lord who stole “for the lulz” (also due to sudden kleptomaniac urges) and not because he wanted to send messages to fellow master thieves anymore by stealing their fortunes. Bentley - Is an even bigger anxious nervous wreck than he was in the past 3 games. Murray - Went from the dopey-yet-lovable muscle and bonafide motorhead of the team to the token fat guy who does nothing but stuff his face and occasionally dresses up in drag (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Carmelita - Became a hotheaded bimbo who was put into skimpy outfits just to serve as furry eye candy. Penelope - Twist villain on par with the worst Pixar villains for the sake of trying to make an antagonist more memorable than La Paradox and the other ancillary bosses. Dmitri- Was only in a couple cutscenes and was wasted. No wonder this game flopped besides the fact it was an entry in a series long past its prime.

[@xthewhitewolf]

It'll be hilarious if Sly 5 comes out and does amazing in both reviews and sales.

[@TerrorOfTalos]

Yeah just like what happened with Thieves in time, right? 🤣

[@Darkjonny79]

While I don't think a Sly 5 would happen, if it did, the way it could work is if it was a case of Sly leaving clues that the others would have to find. We could play as Sly, then have a mission as one of the others, to eventually unlock clues. Slys part could be him working with his ancestor to defeat Clockwerk, and get back home. A return of the OG villain could be an interesting thing.

[@skibot9974]

Regarding your point on a story resolving a cliffhanger and immediately doing something different doesn’t Return of the Jedi fall into that camp? The first 1/3 of the film is about rescuing Han while the rest of it is a completely seperate plot regarding the second Death Star and Palpatine

[@mido3332]

Crash Bandicoot it's about time did just that: removed wrath of context and continue the Story from 3 Just make remakes am then make a 4th if the remakes are successful but Sly just like Spyro, it's a relic of it's time leave the memory in your hart and move on

[@renamon5658]

Couldn't sly do something in the past. That will give Bentley and the others a clue to where he is. Like write something in the book?

[@TheSkully343]

Agreed with your talking points on the DOA approach a Sly 5 would have, but even if the series was to capitalize on nostalgia with a remake it'd honestly have to be for the right reasons for both fans and developers. Nostalgia and letting people who probably lost their PS2 copies years ago is one thing sure, but what could you do to really improve the original trilogy that isn't something vestigial to the overall experience besides maybe animation touch ups? Because graphically Sly is gonna look about as good as it ever will or will ever need to given its artstyle. If its in the hands of the wrong developers who misunderstand the original trilogy like in the case of Thieves in Time, regardless of what people's thoughts are on the game, putting 1 -3 through the filter of TiT's writing will likely be a turn off for the more staunch fans among the community assuming they redub the voices and touch up the script in places. A matter of Sly finding its new audience is also another issue you touched upon that does make me wonder who exactly would get into the franchise in this day and age and what would allure them in a way Sly didn't (compared to its contemporaries of its era I want to stress) back in the 2000s? It was a niche stealth platformer then, and is a distant memory to the collective concsiousness now of "Oh yeah that one platformer next to Ratchet and Jak.) Sly 1 to 3 are about as complete a package you can get, Thieves in Time pretty much sealed the deal on how a continuation would at best be a vain attempt to keep the steam engine running long after its parts have decayed and rusted to the point that even a Crash 4 "Thieves in Time never happened, we're really really really sorry, please give us money and ALL THE COCAINE" style sequel would still come across as desperate to breathe life into a series that ran its course and should be laid to rest. Fact of the matter is people don't know what they want, but they know what they like, and refuse to let go even if its detrimental to a game, a movie or TV show's overall quality or creativity once the well dries up.

[@mr.sunnyg5510]

I'm one of those staunch fans, if they do anything to Kevin, Matt or Chris to not make them rerole as the voices (if number 5 comes out hopefully) then I'm officially done with Playstation... maybe if Sony stopped making shitty racthet games and left it at gladiator, then maybe sly would've had a better chance.

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@@mr.sunnyg5510 "maybe if Sony stopped making shitty ratchet games then sly would've had a better chance" such a moronic take even ignoring the fact RaC inherently has more lasting appeal than sly as a concept. Also no, all because you don't like the direction the PS3 future era (including RA) took doesn't mean they aren't high quality action adventure games respective to their era, to this day ToD is still the go to example of an early 7th gen game that holds up much better than its peers from a visual and technical standpoint and not only that it set a solid (although a tad wobbly foundation) for games afterwards, something sanzaru couldn't do to save their independence. Anyways another part of the reason sly is dead and RaC isn't is because not a notable amount of people actually buy sly cooper games with the exception of maybe 2 and even then it was always niche. SIE will only fund something that has a chance of appealing to a large enough audience to make a profit and the rising development costs today cements this, which is why they would rather reboot it instead of appeasing a relatively miniscule fanbase to continue from a major flop from almost a decade ago that was made by a developer they don't own; as once again unlike RaC sly doesn't have a dedicated dev studio.

[@mr.sunnyg5510]

@@TerrorOfTalosI understand what ya saying, but I've been with playstation since the ps2 dropped... was a different brand then and appealed to the "fan" of the brand... nowadays, it's just a brand like "supreme or Nike", just all hype and no play... now with ratchet, funny thing was all his games were good, when they were making fun of people like what playstation is today, and these other big companies who make alotta money and do fuck all to help people or the audience, (was a tad more in the game but the capitalism jokes were good)... and now, the game plays out like a marvel movie and I just can't dig that... sly kept to his roots since day 1 and still hasn't changed (and sometimes that's just a good thing, ain't broke don't fix it) but I get he never got the attention like ratchet and clank, but old playstation heads who were fans of SCEE Platformers pick sly as #1 mate...

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@@mr.sunnyg5510 I understand but Sony needs to see potential profits first before anything, GoW for example was allowed to change direction because it's still a relevant series that a *LOT* of people will support as shown during the PS2/3 era so they took a risk on PS4 and it paid off. Hopefully the sly development rumors are true because trust me I want him back as much as you do.

[@GhostAcez]

I think a basic sly 4k collection with all 4 games (and maybe make the DLC for the 4th game to wrap it up like others have suggested) would be great. Basically just port all 4 games (and maybe the final addition to thieves in time) to PS5 upscaled to 4k so people can play it on modern platforms. Or they could do something with the games in their new version of playstation plus as they are porting older games to run on PS4 and PS5, the Sly games will likely be on that list.

[@JB-df7pd]

Your Sly videos got you a subscription. I agree with a lot of the points in your video. I was a huge sly fan growing up as a kid and at the time it was one of my favourite franchises (over Crash, Spyro and Jak). Also at the time being a kid I was interested in a Sly 4 being made. Though after a while realised it wasn't going to happen and moved on. When I heard of a Sly 4 being announced I wondered why. It had been 8 years. By this time I wasn't an 11 year old who loved Sly but a university student. I figured most the fan base had probably grown out of a franchise that had been lying dormant plus Sucker Puncj wasn't the studio. Either way I loved Sly and wanted to see where it went so I bought the game and played it. It may have just been growing up but the game felt hallow. It was a Sly game but missed that special something that I still can't put into words. Though it may have been the plot which I thought was poorly written. I think Sly 5 in the franchises current state would be a failure. I mean it could potentially come back. Nier Gestalt/Replicant solf 500k copies world wide then Nier Automata was a massive success in comparison. Though I'd rather see a remake of the original trilogy and then a reboot. I think Sly as a franchise could still be successful. I think it needs to evolve beyond what it was back in Sly 3 and focus more on heists than time travel (which in all honesty I think is rarely done well in media).

[@thepainthuffer886]

It's better to just retcon Thieves in Time or take the Crash 4 route and just pretend its in it's own alternate universe

[@buster3041]

But then thieves in time still happens lol

[@gameinspection4999]

We don't need a sly 5. We didn't even need a sly 4 if we're being honest

[@jayDee92133]

We might have stood a chance of getting Sly 5 in the Shawn Layden era of PlayStation but definitely not it the current era of Jim Ryan.

[@TheBasedTyrant]

There are two options, remake the original trilogy, or alternatively Bentley wakes up and realizes Thieves in Time was all a bad dream so we can pick up from Sly 3. No matter what however, there is always the risk that any other developer that picks the series up would do just as bad. And although you may feel you act like an asshole on the subject, it really annoys me also when people act like Thieves in Time is salvageable or come up with stupid theories for why Penelope became the way she did, or why Sly ruined his relationship for no reason. This game contains so much bad writing and character assassinations there is no way the story could go forward without first explaining what story Sanzaru was apparently basing Thieves in Time on, because it wasn't the Sly games I played. If Sanzaru's only justification was that they thought "the world needed another Sly game" and this is what came of that mentality, then I have to be extremely hesitant of anyone who says "the world needs Sly 5", the better way to put it would be "it would be nice if the Sly series was avenged"

[@AnubisBlackGamez]

I would love to see a next gen recreation of sucker punch's comic booky style

[@TylerTheShepherd]

There’s no fun fighting Penelope as the villain so I would lean towards getting her on the protagonist side. She doesn’t have to revert to what she was like in sly 3, just a good reason to work with the cooper gang. And given that she’s sending postcards to Bentley I would say missing her boyfriend is a good enough reason for wanting to return. And since she built the time machine sly was on that sent him to Egypt she may have a way to track it. All we need now is a reason for Bentley to request a traitors help. Perhaps maybe a growing threat of a new villain team could help pursued the cooper gang to form an alliance with her.

[@Reuz1721]

Everyone’s overthinking what the 5th game can be about First we have to continue off the cliffhanger; we can have sly look for his Egyptian ancestor in the first hub world, but while looking for his ancestor there we see that sly is a bit clumsy without Bentley Once sly finds his ancestor, we find out that clockwork is friends with him We don’t know anything about clockwork or why he hates the cooper family During their meeting the ancestor asks sly to prove he is a cooper from the future and ask him for help before sly can write where he is in time in Egypt so the gang can save him During these missions we can see how clockwork is clumsy, not as agile as the coopers and we can slowly see the envy build up. Let’s also male Slys ancestor arrogant and full of himself At the end of this first hub world we can have clockwork tag along and get lost in time Basically we can see how clockwork ended up hating the cooper family and see that clockwork really wasn’t immortal but rather jumping through time Hell, clockwork doesn’t have to be friends with slys Egyptian ancestor but we can get an explanation as to why the hatred

[@Adrian-hj7ih]

I never played the Sly games, but i've never seen a case where to make a sequel you have to FIX all the shit happend before to make something new

[@tgzzz1]

What If at the start they just time travel to when they made the time machine and destroy it and continue from a bit after sly 3

[@patg108]

You forgot about the possibility of it being a standalone game sequel that tells the ending of Sly 4 as a intro and can incorporate the other characters (not technically) by introducing past ancestors (versions) of themselves who assist Sly in somehow returning to the present (as well as plot twist new villains introduced that end up also getting to the future and are later discovered to be causing chaos which the modern team has to deal with. And returning villains (upgraded or not) wouldn't be a bad thing. After all Egyptian culture is often portrayed as having strange, mysterious and weird magic and devices. It could also explain mysterious previous plot twists by introducing the concept of the ancestor as the character that was evil all along but in the disguise of the modern character. There's also the option of having a the All 4 one cross over receiving a sequel in the form of the villains reuniting and causing chaos. Sly is in trouble sure due to that poor act of having the "ended up in ancient egypt" be the true ending. But that is a method to get out of it and create new openings.

[@brucegay9569]

All of this is why a fourth game should have never happened. I say remake the first three games and disregard the fourth game plotwise. Or do what Crash Bandicoot did and make a new fourth entry. But honestly, the original trilogy was fine. Both the gameplay and stories were solid, and everything was tied up nicely in a neat little bow. Then the fourth game came along and basically ruined everything.

[@lillobrig]

they can save their asses by naming the next game Sly 4, since thieves in time looks like an external thing from the trilogy

[@olucasb93]

I have an idea for how the series can return but it doesn't involve a direct sequel to thieves in time, not in a traditional matter. I would reboot the first game, expanding the gameplay and plot to be the best that it could be, everything playing out the same but at the end after the Clockwerk fight, his last words would be a memory from Egypt Sly talking about his friends. This would start a new "remake" timeline as in Sly 2 remake the gang tries to figure out what the message means. 2 remake would start with Egypt Sly coming across a kid Clockwerk (reveals real Clockwerk name) and have them work together for an escape sequence. Sly knowing what he would become but torn to make something about it. Egypt timeline would be told in non chronological order, parallel to original Sly 2 timeline. That's the way I'd present Sly to a new audience but making things fresh and not disregard what happened in Thieves in Time. The new timeline is Sly-Clockwerk focused, instead of Clock-la, Clockwerk returns at the end of 2 and the 3rd and final installment would resolve all time related plots and with the help of Cooper Gang from 3 (with redeemed Doctor M as part of the crew) Sly would defeat Clockwerk once and for all. Egypt Sly goes back to post LeParadox defeat timeline, talk to his friends and retires for good with Carmelita. *would redeem or flesh out more Penelope character's arc

[@bradpollard444]

I have a question about the Sly 4 ending. Do the other characters know Sly is lost in time? If not maybe a coma theory could work. Maybe the best way to undo the plot damage caused by Sly 4 could be to play it off as Sly was never really in Egypt but some how ended up in a coma. This way the story could simply start over.

[@herfmonny]

They way you can save it is actually create a Multi-verse Scenario

[@TerrorOfTalos]

Nobody wants that from sly cooper

[@elharvey5032]

No, how about a Remake by Sucker Punch

[@brenthatfield1123]

Sky 5: sly wakes up and all of thieves in time was a dream. Even though I’m joking I’d actually be fine with it cuz I’d laugh with it and it would satisfy me cuz I actually want a good sequel to honor among thieves and thieves in time to be essentially non canon.

[@camdenthompson4307]

OK, so I have 2 ideas as to how they can (some, The Absolute hell and Back, how) fix the series, The issue is that I don't know if either of them is going to work and I'm happy for criticism (hell, it probably needs it) the first solution is to have the plot follow what Thieves in Time introduced and where it left off, I could see the gang finding and collecting various artifacts in the vain attempt to at least get the idea as to where Sly JUST POTENTIALLY might be, eventually landing in Egypt. the way I would see the game turn out is that Sly is still a playable character, as well as everyone else, but Sly might not be a part of the group, still trying to find a possible way back home, meanwhile, everyone else is trying to look for Sly. as for Penelope, I don't remember if she did, in fact, time travel in the end credits, but if not, she doesn't need to be included (and if the reeeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllyyyyyy want to bring her back, they can God forbid make Sly 6). now, the issue that I can at least pick out is that the fact the gang SOMEHOW ends up in the EXACT location Sly's in is a bit of a coincidence, and in that case, what then, how do we take the story, in that case, I feel like the "Heist" formula is more focused on Sly getting information and planning a heist on his own to get something to time travel, such as using something like Egyptian Magic in Egypt (probably the book of Thoth if I were to guess), or somehow making a different time machine using resources from the renaissance era, or, if Sanzaru are way to damn ambitious for their own good, they could have a futuristic level where Bentley's tech eventually resulted to massive Innovations and Sly has to actually steal the original time machine and something from the "Modern time" (Which that is WAY too ambitious, and probably won't happen, still cool though) the second Idea though is way simpler, which is the idea you made. they first do a remake of the Sly trilogy, but in addition, if they complete all 3 games to 100%, they unlock a secret ending showing Sly getting out of Egypt. After that, that's it. Sly 5 can happen. now, the issue with this is that it's cheap. it makes Sly 4 kind of pointless, but to be honest, where can you go from there? realistically? you can't just have an open cliffhanger and not do anything with it. really, it's the only reasonable way I can see them make effective money and bring Sly back.

[@ogre7699]

I’m a couple years late, but will say this. I do hope that they bring back Sly sometime in the future, but I do think that if they do go ahead with that, they should probably start with remakes for the original trilogy. I played a little bit of Sly 2 when I was younger, and that was pretty fun. Would like to give it a proper playthrough someday. A direct continuation would be difficult however, I agree. Would be perhaps easier to go with a reboot by that point, which has it’s own risks. It would be nice to see Sly again generally, but I’d be lying if I said it was going to be an easy task, if they do ever consider it.

[@gaigemiller9992]

Screw Sly 4 just pretend it never happened and pick up from 3

[@MidnightLobster7]

I don't see how they couldn't make a story based around Sly meeting a new group of people establishing a different dynamic, heisting around Egypt. Sly makes them a great ammount of money so they follow him happily, but Sly isn't interested in the money. He just wants a way back and is trying to find out any way he might get back. Could end with him finding a way back from some secret tech inside the Great Pyramid or some spiritual ritual inside or something. I think theres plenty of room for expansion with the right vision. This is all assuming that the game even follows the secret ending to begin with. This is all so speculative that I don't think we can say "this can't happen because X, Y and Z" when X, Y and Z may not even be factors to the devs-like if they decide the secret ending wasn't canon.

[@somethingfunny2199]

Exactly! It's not an easy sell but the concept of a solely Sly based game isn't impossible. They could also do the standard Sly Cooper affair with a young/inexperienced Slythunkhamen the Third being the Bentley of the group and introduce a new character to fill in for Murray. The entire point of the game would be to build up Slythunkhamen until he's ready to perform his heist from the Thievius Raccoonus. This Past Cooper Gang could hit different crime/shadowy organizations all over Egypt bleeding into parts of Mesopotamia and the Arabian Desert. Maybe one of the chapters could be going smoothly until Clockwerk gets thrown into the mix forcing Sly to make last-minute adjustments to prevent a massive change in the timeline like a dead Slythunkhamen or early defeated Clockwerk. Of course, the Present Cooper Gang would still be around but until the halfway point and end they would be in the chapter intermissions as Sly thinks about how they're doing. During gameplay items or enemies could be accidentally transported to the past as Bentley is using a new experimental time machine to make finding Sly much easier. Once Bentley pinpoints Sly's location, the Present Gang go to his location to get him, but he declines their offer wanting to see Slythunkhamen's training through choosing instead to remain in touch shifting intermissions into Sly updating the present crew on his progress and giving the player insight into what has changed since Sly 4. By the end of the game, Sly realizes his ancestor no longer needs him, so he says his goodbyes then returns to the present where the story closes off with Sly being led into a surprise party with all allies welcoming him back home. Then as an incentive to get the collectables there could be a short epilogue mission where you play out the planning and preform the heist, we saw all the way back in Sly 1's intro I don't understand why some people would think a 5th game wouldn't work due to 4's secret ending because the potential is there all you have to do is think about it

[@GhostAcez]

I would just love a 4k remastered collection of the games. Also maybe some kind of reboot or Spinoff would be cool too. Idk what they would spin off from but a new series in the style and gameplay of the Sly games with different characters could be cool.

[@rainesmith4076]

They should have left it at 3.

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Both Sucker Punch & Sony Interactive Entertainment wanted to leave it at 3 sadly Sanzaru Games showcased a concept demo that swayed Sucker Punch to allow them to create a new entry but only after SIE felt they were ready after they proved themselves remastering said trilogy

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@@bamban_garcia5562 All that effort for *mid,* hate to see it.

[@Fonz128]

Sly 3’s ending messed up when Bentley said he’s making a time machine.

[@joshtr-sd3mr]

I personally liked Sly 4, but I had nostalgia goggles glued to my face at the time. Looking back on it, I agree Sony dropped the ball in multiple ways,. Adding time travel was a large leap and they did a disservice to the main cast character. Perhaps if they had made it into a buddy cop game with Sly and Carmelita as the main protagonists?

[@JRMagro]

I loved sly 4 tho . The bosses and time travel concept was awesome.

[@Darkrising1993]

I had a great idea how to follow up sly 4 and to possibly make a proper end. At first it seems like saving Sly is the initial thing but you later realize that time is starting to change again. But here is the unique thing why. So not only Sly being in the place of his most ancient (minus the Prehistoric one) ancestor, the Theivius Racoonus unknown to Sly had changed to reference him on many occastions throughout it. This in this changed timeline Clockwork starts to realize and sets up a way to fake his death and wait until the time travelling technology was created by bentley and steal it for himself. Now we have the return of Clockwork and him messing up time. But one of the intersting things amongst meeting more Cooper ancestors is near the end he'd run into his father (and possibly the crew that was mentioned in Sly 3 including the villian in Sly 3 who was Sly's Father's Bentley) and near the end his father would find out not only Sly was his son but also that he was killed by Clockwork. And Sly's father despite Sly's pleas accepts his fate so that the future can play out where his son becomes the man he sees infront of him. End with them setting things right but you find out that some little things have changed here and there. Maybe the villian from 3 never became angry and maybe in this timeline someone else was trying to get into the Cooper Vault and he helped you in this version and the vault in this timeline never fell. But yeah I think using time travel to this time bring back Clockwork and Sly's father would be a great way to make a sequel to 4 and to end the series.

[@manuelcordoba5394]

Honestly if i we're in charge i'd simply just remaster the 3 first games and Then Say that thieves in time is no longer official to replace with a 4th part with a better story

[@masteroogway6660]

The only plot threads they never tied up about penelope was her originally liking Sly and her knowing the time machine plans, so Sly 5 is her rescuing him off the bat, then penelope commiting her ideal heists through history to convince Sly to be part of her team with her, make it about why his family got into theiving and her convincing him that his ties to his old team held him back and no other Cooper did it and his relationship with carmaleta was always just a game to him, just like all his heists before now, and have that be the inspiration to start the cooper vault, secure a legacy. While Bentley and the OG team try rescue Sly from her and they can have storyline about how theft only bought them pain and going stright might be for the better etc. That way you get two simultaneous original heists storylines with the new team of Sly and Penelope (which can be profitable but morally dubious) and Bentleys rescue heists (team based over profits), let Sly be convinced at first one way then the other, end definitively then call the series dead for real this time. Oh, and have a heist in the middle go wrong somewhere leaves the tech to make clockwerk go full cybernetic, it never made sense that he just managed that through hate alone and its a nice consequences of time travel nugget that leads to them deciding to destroy the tech at the end

[@dav552]

" Shever nood happen " love you keep that in

[@ci7210]

Also funny you mention Crash Bandicoot comming back as a sequel to Mind Over Mutant. Because thay would be a horrible idea Also Crash 4 taking after Mind Over Mutant. Like people in the Crash sub seriously hate that they made a sequel of Crash 3. Most people either played the original or remale Trilogy. The 2000's Crash games aren't even available to buy digitally. So why do a sequel from a game that was from the dark period, not as many people played. A completely different genere.

[@zbaksh101]

I disagree because you could always put Sly in the recent past rather than the ancient past. It's a retcon but I think it's one fans would accept.

[@literalcharlie4171]

I remember that the Egypt ending was supposed to be a dlc so what they could do is just release the ending in a short movie concluding the sly 4 story so sly 5 can start of fresh. But I’d be totally cool if they made sly 5 into episodes like what they do with hitman since making a full game is a big investment. I’d be okay waiting for mini episodes rather than getting nothing. That way players get something and the publisher gets to gauge interest / receive feedback for what works and doesn’t

[@bonberryproductions7955]

I would dedicate a fraction to getting sly back. Have heist missions with the return of some characters from sly 3. Have sly steal an important artifact to the pharroh and maybe have the crew finding the remnants of sly...maybe throught the theivious racconus. Then you have the gang fight a new villian or maybe clockwork. Maybe the pharroha artifact holds significant power and you need to pull a heist together.

[@demp6025]

They don't HAVE to make it happen after #4 in the timeline...

[@solid4340]

I think a T for Teen Rated, funny but gritty crime reboot of Sly Cooper would be dope. I know the gritty reboot idea can be overbaked sometimes, but this sounds to me like the scenario where it would work. Each chapter is a city like France or New York, each city is a heist, all missions in each chapter live up to heist. The thievious racconus is just the rap sheet for Sly's family. Same origin where he meets Murray and Bentley in the orphanage. But realistic cars, guns, buildings, but everybody is an anthropomorphic animals in a cool cartoony style. That's what I personally would do

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

Personally, I think a remake of the first four games would be nice, so that the fans or newcomers can catch up to where Thieves in Time left off. I don’t want Thieves in Time to be ignored for the next game as its the fourth game in the series. Plus most of the hatred torwards Thieves in Time are out of biases and nostalgia. (Fun fact, some Sly Cooper fans tried to make a game where they completely ignore the biases by making their so called true sequel to Honor Among Thieves, but it didn’t work out for them.) But even with those thoughts, do I seriously think there’ll ever be a 5th Sly Cooper game. No… mainly because its been almost 10 years since Thieves in Time’s release, and I don’t know what a Sly Cooper game would look like if its on the PS5. Plus I’m not a Sly Cooper fan anymore, it’s simply not gonna happen, much like Half Life 3.

[@saloz9483]

I dont think the dislike for Thieves in time has anything to do with biases and nostalgia. Its just something like penelopes direction makes zero sense and does nothing for her character or anyone else. The way she was handled in 3 was way better.

[@xthewhitewolf]

"It's simply not gonna happen." That's what they said about Spyro and Crash, and look what happened...

[@mrconroy4672]

Just remake the trilogy and see how well that does. Either that or hard reboot the series.

[@mrconroy4672]

@@xthewhitewolfMy only gripes is that Sly cooper isn’t versatile compared what crash or Spyro had. It’s going to take a lot to earn profit to justify the comeback.

[@mr.anonymous.2749]

That's why i think a remake of the original trilogy would be the best option, rather then getting a sly 5. At this point i don't even care about Sly 5 anymore. I would be fine with just a remake for PS4/5.

[@thehashsmokems]

Just make the time travel a bad fever dream

[@TylerTheShepherd]

Time traveling is just a gimmick in this game, we technically don’t need them to keep on traveling as long as you got a good story.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

@@tabreezsiddique not for the entire next game. So far the only thing left to do is find sly and that’s worth basically one chapter or a prologue mission. The reason for time travel in sly 4 was to save the ancestors and fix the timeline, which they did. Unless somehow another big bad got ahold of another time machine there’s basically no other reason. Besides the game is about sly cooper and his friends not time traveling.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

@@tabreezsiddique the time machine can still be a main plot, they just don’t have to always time travel. It could be about finding a way to prevent time travel so others won’t mess with the timeline.

[@alexk7880]

Best they can just make a comic series to fill the story while not needing the major gameplay dynamic to be able to fix the problem along with expanding with sly getting to know his first ancestor. It can still have the dynamic back and forth of Bentley and Murray figuring out where sly is with trying to track him. Thus at least help fix and speed through to start fresh. Penelope can be her own sense of gray character when showing she regretted her actions and felt that it doesnt work with the dynamic with the sly gang when she isnt a vigilante type of hero or some robin hood kind of character. As she can do her own thing but keep in touch if bentley needs help on something small. it gives a sense of her growing as a character and admitting her crush for bentley died off. I think when they implemented in Sly 3 bringing in some old characters to help on the side seems interesting while also difficult when some can see it as reusing the same characters as side help for certain jobs but ruins the story dynamic because needing to juggle that and not giving them some screen time of story with the original gang and just be filler to be used for small parts or one or two time missions. Their sequel when getting sly back can be more on the mystery surrounding Sly's father and expand on him to fix on how the main villain for sly 3 told sly his father isnt how he thinks he is. Not being someone that is good but possibly grey in his actions. Another can be a twist of sly being the cause for clockwork with him being back in time when his first ancestor was in egypt and he falsely assumes him to be evil but ended up making him to be a villain for ruining him thus having an effect for the rest of his family and heritage for his actions.

[@MrMindMix]

A little annoyed. I really like your videos but I have a strict policy about non political channels throwing in their politics. I dont care what side you're on. Oh well. Keep up the good work my guy.

[@Laurachannelfave]

After playing the trilogy and watching the absolute abortion that was Thieves In Time's story, pulling a Crash is the best option for the franchise. If not, at the very least someone at SP officially declare Thieves In Time's story non-canon or an alternate timeline. As a game, it's fine, but as a continuation of the franchise is a HUGE disservice in my opinion. I still get flabbergasted when people ask for a Sly 5, because not only acknowledges Thieves in Time as the official fourth game despite not even having a 4 in its title, but I honestly ask why would someone want a continuation of a story that was an utter disaster from beginning to end. Sure it has its nice things, but none of them save the story for being a black stain on the franchise. I'm sorry to say this, but I consider Thieves in Time the Metroid: Other M of the Sly Cooper franchise. I just hope that in the far future the franchise will get a happy ending like Metroid did 🙏

[@3To3dSl0th]

Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself. I cannot understand why these people want the trash fire that is Sanzaru's story to continue.

[@TheDreadyGamer]

Why would it need to be the prologue? Remember, Sly 2 ended with the team also seperated. Do what that game did and dedicate chapter 1 to the rescue, as well as setting up the rest of the game’s plot. Problem solved, this isn’t too difficult to work around. As for what I think Sly 5 should be… they established that the Cooper clan is a LONG family line… is there really only 1 branch of the tree? Seriously? Give us an evil cousin of Sly, Sly’s rivals so far have been so different, and he’s never really faced someone on his level and style before. Would be awesome to see

[@BrennySpain]

Don’t ever compared sly Cooper to doctor who! Jodie Whittaker’s portrayal of the new doctor has ruined the show I think. It’s more like “doctor cringeworthy and the betrayal of the daleks.” That’s basically the New Year’s Day 2021 in a nutshell!

[@TekTheNinja]

Avengers Endgame ain't a masterpiece, not even close.

[@SethMVO]

I can’t agree with your assertion that a story where Sly is rescued in the prologue just inherently can’t succeed because there’s “nowhere to go”. Spitballing here, marine the entire first chapter is just Sly, and it’s like the tutorial. You have to establish yourself in Egypt, then find your Egyptian ancestor. You explain the situation and tell him about the Theivious Racoonus. You give him the idea that he became famous for: starting the book. Sly puts a code in the book, Bently finds it in the future and the chapter ends with Sky’s rescue. The big plot then kicks off with Clockwerk discovering the code when he comes to take the book in Sly 1. This code gives him some kind of power over the Coopers, and the new plot is having to defeat clockwerk at different points in the timeline. All the pictures from the book in Sly 1 with clockwerk in the background, and his cameos in sly 4 can now be explained. He was there, but held at bay by Sly and the gang. I don’t think you’re giving enough thought to the possibilities.

[@shadow105720]

There is actually potential for a grand finale with sly pulling a solo job in the past that influences the future while the gang is also doing a heist and it being changed by slys actions in the past. Like a back to the future gta v mashup. This could be the intro or the finale, either works. Maybe even a 2nd act setpiece. As of now it just seems like sly is his own great great great.... great grandfather but there are places to go. Maybe there is a band of villains in the past that sly must avoid solo but the 2nd half of the game when they get linked Murray can come in and smash skulls and sly can go into the future levels that were Murray and Bently only for the first half. There is precedent for this in the jailbreak episode of sly 2. Lastly I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot as long as we get to play through the orphanage cookie jar heist. EDIT i know what the second half of the game is. Remember how Clockwerk is in the background of every photo, including Egypt? Well guess who else is in Egypt now. Why did Clockwerk hate the coopers? They pulled a heist on him. He was so angry he literally found a way to transcend time itself to enact revenge. Against who does he take that revenge? You could say Sly's father but I would say losing your father in front of you and saving you for later is more targeted and cruel. Its a great way to bring him back as the villain because he was already there, we are literally going back to him. And yes he was defeated in the present but what he really wanted all along was true time travel tech that he learned of from the Copper Gang from the present which would allow him to be truly immortal and rule for eternity. So yeah let's just say there are stakes.

[@elharvey5032]

If they were to reboot the franchise I think I'd rather meet Conner Cooper

[@mrconroy4672]

Honestly, they just need to reboot the series or remake the trilogy with the inclusion of a marginally better ending to the third. Continuing off from four isn’t going to bring sales in.

[@kylenaniot8170]

If a new sly ever were to happen they could pull a card from crash and treat thieves in time as a spinoff, and make a sly 4 as thieves in time never had a number assigned could just be seen as a noncannon, alt. universe sly. Just one way they could treat the franchise

[@vaguelywyatt483]

I’m making a soy wojak edit of you

[@MajorPolyguns]

Here's how I would make the plot be like in Sly 5, I'm not the smartiest, my spelling sucks and it might be a bit long but here goes: Bentley could be trying to look through history books to notice any changes involving a certain Racoon making an appearence. So Bentley would like to make an better time machine but without Penelope's help he had the first time he would have to think of someone else to help him. A accident happens while trying to figure out a way to travel through time without help of an artifact of that period to help, Murray accidently pushes the Thievius Raccoonus into the new time machine prototype Bentley is working on while digging trough artifacts he stole from the museum in a desperate attempt to find something from the exact time from with Sly appeared in. This time the time machine does not send anything back to the time the artifact was made but instead brings someone back, that someone being Sly's father now in current time. Together with Sly's father they get Mcsweeney from jail with Carmelita's help as an cop. Sly's father and Sweeney go to their old hideout and pick up some documents written by Dr M and give them to Bentley that starts reading them for like 3 seconds before just throwing them into the time machine with brings Dr M back to life by bringing him from the past. Bentley and Dr M start to work on a better time machine, meanwhile Sly is trying to find civilisation and runs into a city in Eqypt were he tries to steal something to eat because he dosen't have the currency of that time. Sly almost fails and almost get caught but his ancestor Slytunkhamen steps in and helps him, he leads Sly to a hidden alleyway that leads to a hideout where Sly ask if he could get help getting back to the future. Slytunkhamen knows of an artifact that can grant wishes that may be Sly's only chance but a evil being pretending to be Thoth (bird like god in eqyptian religion) is also after it. It's later revealed to be Clockwerk before he turned himself to a machine, before he hated the cooper clan but Sly's part of the game would make you slowly get in the way of him and revealing him for the fraud he was and that's when he starts hating coopers. So basically Sly would be the cause that created Clockwerk and set Sly 1 and 2 up unknowingly at first. Sly could maybe meet Bentley's, Murry's and Carmelita's ancestors that works with Slytunkhamen but their personality could be completly different from their future counterparts, like Murray's ancestor being the smart one, Bentley's ancestor being the muscles and lastly Carmelita's ancestor being a thief. Maybe Dr M and Clockwerk team up after the gang from the future finally arrive at Eqypt at the time were Sly is at. In conclution: Sly would have heist like plans to halt Clockwerk's progress finding the artifact and try finding it first together with the ancestors of the whole gang, the artifact could be in like in 3 pieces at different places that only would work when all pieces been gathered. The current time gang would have Sly's father and the gang steal parts for the new more advanced time machine they are working on while Sly's father talk about how proud he is for Sly and other things from the past. This may be too convoluted or may sound like fanfic nonsense but that's how my stupid monkey brain would make it.

[@orbissibro4790]

I saw in the comments that Sanzaru meant the cliffhanger to be for a dlc, so i won't hammer that in. And while i think that a 5th sly cooper is impossible, i can't say it's bad solely on the fact that sly isn't with the rest of the team. We've seen this before where we don't have everyone in sly 3. Murray is off doing shamanic things while the other two are trying to be thieves. In a matter of a few minutes, i came up with a potential idea that could be used while still being treated as a sequel: Bentley is trying his hardest to figure out where sly went, but with no real ideas to go on, he can't. Suddenly, a time portal opens up and the future descendants of the heroes pop through, saying they know where sly is. Cut to the future where everything's gone to shit (admittedly, i don't know why, but that's why this is a concept and not a game, ya know?) and the "Bentley type" of the future learns that there's just this huge gap in the theivius racoonus where sly cooper is. He had descendants, obviously, but where's his thieves skills? As if by fate, some archeologists in Egypt are televised opening up a vault or something that had some lock on it (a la the cooper family vault) that no one could bust open until now. It's the cooper cane. But the current cooper descendant has a cane. What happened? We pitch a few missions where we play as the future cooper gang and steal back the cane. They use the cane to go to what I'll call the present and get into contact with Bentley, who now knows that sly must be in ancient Egypt. They pull a heist to get an Egyptian relic and use that to get to sly. Now, we play as sly for a bit to go through the events of him putting his cane in the vault and eventually his friends finding him. As he no longer has his cane, and the cane that the gang use to get to the present being in no good shape whatsoever, they have to fashion a new cane for sly to use, making use of past, present, and future technology (admittedly, this doesn't have to be the case, but it would be fun to get a new, updated cane design with a little insight as to how cooper's craft canes). Now, we have access to all times to create a new style of sly cooper: instead of solely chapter based sequences, it's more open in where to choose to go time wise. Throw in a little penelope villain bits and i think you have at least a halfway decent story for the fifth and hopefully final sly cooper game. Obviously, this won't happen. I also believe we won't even get a "remastered trilogy" as the poor sales mean Sony will never dip into sly again, regardless of nostalgia, but i can hope at least. Anyway, fun video. Kinda late to the party, but whatevs

[@saunshilu]

to be frank i think the best thing to do would be a modern remaster/remake of the trilogy and reboot sly4 taking greater care in its story and development time

[@jacobgreenhagen903]

okay hear me so if they did revive the series what if you play as sly travelling through time obviously to get back to his time but he has to rely on his family to get back. there has been many different ally shown to have help the cooper family for a while. unless you consider that sly is just his entire family but it would still be fun. (sorry about the grammer.)