The Rise & Fall of Pakistan's Bureaucracy | Part 01 | TCM Up-Close Ft. Ashir Azeem

[@EngineerMuhammadAliMirzaClips]

Excellent & Logical Analysis ! ! ! May ALLAH عزوجل Protect Our Nation & Our Country PAKISTAN from all Internal & External Enemies. Aameen ! ! ! May ALLAH guide all of us towards his path of TRUTH. Aameen ! ! ! TRUTH Lovers ko SALAM ! ! !

[@AliTKhan]

App haar jaga ajtay ho apni publicity karnay. kuch khayal karo bahi

[@discover-the-universe]

​@@AliTKhanap bi to wahin poche hote ho jahan ap inko dkhte ho kia ap hi dkh skte ho is tarha ki video

[@AliTKhan]

@@discover-the-universe video dheakna koi aur baat hai, iss tarhan apni publicity karna Copy paste message se koi aur baat hai.

[@Lovepakistan767]

Engineer sahab aaj kal aap bhe compromised baten kar rahen hain.

[@RizwankhanPSP]

Qadyani khe ka

[@AadilJalaldin]

سر میں آپ کے جیسا عظیم داماغ تو نہیں رکھتا میڈل کلاس اور میڈل تک پڑھا ہوں ۔پر اتنا جانتا ہوں کے آپ ایک مُہَب۔ وطن ہیں اللّه پاک آپ کو ہمیشہ حق پر رکھے امین سدا سلامت رہیں آپ ھمارے ہیرو ہیں ۔۔اللّه پاک هم کو آپ جیسا بہادر بناییں ❤

[@aliqazilbash7905]

I was studying for CSS but I dropped it when I learned how broken and contaminated our system is. Thank god I didn't become a CSS officer. Now I live in Canada making an honest and hard working living as an IT professional. With my family.

[@karamkaram5362]

Geo ❤ Allah Apko kanyaab krey

[@abdulrehmananjum5925]

You should have lived in Pakistan and tried to mend its system because if not us then who will.

[@haroonfareednaat]

@@abdulrehmananjum5925 we will In Shaa Allah! It is we who can!

[@greyali9798]

can you fix your computer by being a computer? @@abdulrehmananjum5925

[@adsensemindfreaker]

​@@abdulrehmananjum5925yeh ashir azeem bhe mend krna chahta tha customs house karachi ko.iska kia haal howa zara pooch laina is banday se

[@maq739]

Don't stop Ashir Sir and don't stop TCM. MashaAllah. Great job.

[@slip3264]

Write Ma Sha Allah like this plz Jazak ALLAH

[@AMChristian]

Sir Ashir Azeem is Pride of Christian Community. Sir Ashir Azeem is Pride of Pakistan. Lots of Love sir!

[@rananaveedhussain9738]

Respected Sir Sir Ashir azeem is not pride of christian,we love him and respect him toooooooo much,Ashir sir is pride of whole Pakistaan,we miss him so much,its our unfortue we lost such type of diamonds

[@jocker105]

First he is pakistani don't talk about ethical way only pakistani and we are proud of him

[@fatehabbas5529]

also every Pakistani lay man.

[@EngrAzam-og9lq]

Fully agreed with you

[@RohitKumar-es2pb]

Listening to Ashir azeem is a privilege.

[@riazahmed6939]

عاشر عظیم صاحب، پاکستان کا عمدہ سرمایہ ہیں، اس وقت بھی اپنی قوم و ملک کے لئے، انصاف و برابری کے لئے کوشاں ہیں اور اپنی قوم کو توجہ بنیادی مسائل کی طرف توجہ دلارہے ہیں۔ "ایک امید جو مایوسی کو ختم کرنے کے لئے محو عمل ہے"

[@suzieanddusty]

When you go to prepare for CSS exams to an academy, they tell you how best to answer the question 'why do you want to join civil service' and they tell you, you have to say 'because we want the respect, the status and the perks associted with this job'. How ridiculous, if this has to be an acceptable answer, what kind of people are qualifying for the civil service? They ask you long questions about the administration of the caliphs in the qualifying exams, but the actual acceptable administration in the field is opposite to it entirely.

[@umairkhalid6687]

You articulated it very well.

[@salmanramzan2032]

​@@umairkhalid6687Abraham Maslow ki Hierarchy of Needs ma Esteem Needs pori krnay k liye loog CSS krtay hain izzat, ehtraam, jhukao from other people.

[@shiraz635]

In my point of view CSS totally useless field because no change in our system they hold the whole district but nothing new in district system

[@AliHaider-es4ms]

What a shame. I think it explains all the mess these babus have created in Pakistan over 70 years.

[@alyz3353]

Whole education system teaches you afsar shahii ..... Faujis are worst , followed by css , judges , doctors and then clerks

[@razamahi4833]

The discussion was far better than the whole interviews of CSPs at this podium.

[@lovewinheart]

This man is a legend in exposing Pakistani Elite classes

[@Not_Alexxis13]

Aashir bhai this nation doesn't deserve you, you are in better place and took better decision because you are unique one in million🎉

[@Koshzify]

Great work TCM. Whistleblower Sir Ashir for sure. We need to listen more from this patriotic man. 🫡

[@ZaidKhan-wy8jy]

His talks and analysis makes so much sense. Thanks Ashir Azeem. You are a gem of a person

[@amadahmedshaikh]

10:50 I would like to add that PKR 1100 in 1949 is equivalent to PKR 1,271,895 (nearly 13 lacs per month) assuming a 10% Average Annual Inflation Rate for 73 years. I do not think that a collector is paid 13 lacs per month today.

[@kimkang2805]

Once i was a css aspirant and my ideal was my cousin Assistant commissioner and his brother who was a 18 bps officer in FBR. Then i heard and witnessed the worst corruption in my family. Then i forgot everything.

[@naeemhussain8377]

You could have been honest

[@mariabasra9395]

You are King. ❤

[@kimkang2805]

​@@naeemhussain8377i could have but that person mentioned above once used his father pension to pay his office bill when he was first appointed.

[@rashidaliswabi]

😂

[@Saad_in_Scotland]

This Gentlemen has remarkably expressed his eye opening thoughts to the people.

[@yasirkhan6455]

isnt he the same guy who said its alright to kill peaceful protestors?

[@Cybriks1]

and brain opening analysis for the public of Pakistan.

[@DarkCol0ur]

We need a whole podcast with sir. Please his insights are so practical and educational.

[@ayeshamirza3604]

سر آپ بالکل ٹھیک کہ رہے ہیں اب کسی بھی ڈیپارٹمنٹ میں اچھی فیملی کے لوگ نیں ارے مطلب پڑھی لکھی فیملی کے کیونکہ اب پڑھا لکھا طبقہ پاکستان میں رہتا ہی نہیں ہے

[@roughrider4048]

His knowledge and intelligence cannot be covered in a single short video, Good job TCM!

[@BroadVisions92]

I respect your point of view about Mr.Ashir. Actually, It is not an intelligence. Mr.Ashir is an educated person who know how the world should be ? instead of how the world is ? We all are educated enough to realize what is wrong with the world, but difference is, "We don't want to amend ourselves, because eventually Mr.Ashir is talking about the Character of Common Man." So, this is not intelligence, this is Thought Process in order to build a society to be lived in. We all, common people, should think like him in order to have a positive society.

[@Pako47]

I follow him on Twitter. His tweets are very sarcastic and True. He knows bureaucracy Issues and Social issue of our society very well and also very vocal about his political views.

[@sugerknighty]

Thats fake id 🆔 he has told multiple times

[@11114striker]

From my experience in dealing with him I can say that Ashir is as humble as he is intelligent and well spoken. Its like fame has never even touched this person. A gem of a human being.

[@angelscor7365]

Usually I don't comment, but for this man lots of love and respect ❤.

[@Beardo17]

"I want to change the system" I stand with you sir.Coming for you insha allah..

[@truthonly1264]

bureaucracy itself is a problem. The speaker rightly said that in developed countries, there is no concept of bureaucracy. In our country no positive change can come in the governance, till the time current structure of civil service will exist, because this bureaucracy failed every government and it's a mafia that is above accountability. There are many civil servants still on prestigious posts, who made plea bargain with NAB in the past, but nobody can fire them. Furthermore, bureaucracy is the key hurdle in establishment of local government system in Pakistan, because they don't like to work under a Mayor or democratic representatives

[@HamadWasim]

Ashir Azeem is a true patriot.

[@maryamaslam5209]

Most intellectual man he is and the analysis is great. 🙌 Please share remaining part of it mam. And best of luck to you for future! You doing an amazing job.

[@ARTA92663]

عوام ہو یہ سمجھنا ہوگا کے سرکاری ملازم عوامی نوکر ہوتا ہے تو اس کو سر پر مت بٹھائیں، اس کو جھک ہر سلام کر کے اپنی توہین نہ کریں۔

[@khushigarewal2615]

Good to know that the producer of TCM is a woman❤️

[@zerotohero_1]

What a honest and logical analysis, and the truth is we lost Ashir Azeem Sir. Lots of love Sir Ashir Azeem.

[@ibraheemtahir1980]

CSP officers are actually not for service, they are prepared and trained with the colonial mindset and for that they are given every tools and means to maintain them as a type of colonial masters. See the justification of CM punjab for defending purchase of elite vehicles for officers.

[@TexasBoyDrew]

What did he say

[@ibraheemtahir1980]

He said in a pressor we cant send our officers on foot for disposal of official duty. But one may ask why you need to give officers Revo, Vigo the blue light on it. @@TexasBoyDrew

[@faizananjum36]

Finally someone spilling the truth about Bureaucracy and Politicians .. nahi to har koi seedha seedha apne failure ka zimmadar Army ki tehra deta hai. Yehi mei bhi kehta hu k bhai Aik Crime ho and police and judiciary is not doing their work to bhai is mei Army ka kia qasoor and interference hai?

[@shahabafridivlogs2659]

Lots of respect for Sir Ashir

[@faheemahmed87]

He is Gem. I always feel sad that he left country. Every honest person leaving country

[@MultiYayyyy]

Thanks

[@Zainab-jb7lr]

Ashir Azeem... it's always a pleasure to hear you..keep doing the right thing

[@foodvdoar9463]

Aashir azeem is a patriotic Pakistani than anybody else.

[@fiazahmadshaheen4414]

Really appreciate the kind of journalism you guys are doing.

[@kamranhafeez855]

“Lekin Masla yeh h” and then starts the real talk.... decent whistle blower. Respect...!

[@BigAngelLove77]

ماشااللہ😍❤️ پاکستان مدینہ کی ریاست بن چکا ہے پاکستان میں زندگی کی بنیادی سہولیات بجلی پانی گیس موجود نہیں

[@CulturePakistan]

جس کا فیملی بیک گراؤنڈ سٹرانگ ہے وہ رشوت بھی تگڑی مانگتا ہے اور اس کے علاوہ اس کے مقاصد سروس کے بعد وزارتیں اور عہدے حاصل کرنا بھی ہوتا ہے۔۔۔

[@muhammadBilal-dn8ve]

one of the best videos i have seen on pakistani system in decades

[@aleemsafdar2120]

Real problem of Pakistan is every institution wants to interfere in work of other institution rather then doing his own job.

[@onedifferentworld8420]

We really need the team like dhuwan to handle the current situation of Pakistan for the well being of the nation and the country.

[@naeemiqbal5819]

ایک ایک بات سچ کہی سر عاشر نے اگر کوئ افسر سیاسی دباؤ برداشت نہیں کر سکتا تو وہ اس لائن میں جائے ہی نہیں کیونکہ کل اللہ کے حضور جواب آ پ نے دینا ہے

[@KJb.MotoTube]

Excellent point at 9:00

[@WaqasAhmad-jj5cn]

Word by word is the depiction of reality which i am watching today exactly

[@waleedahmed7077]

اللہ ہی حافظ ہے اس ملک کا جس میں آپ جیسے بیوروکریٹ کو ہم نے توپ سمجھا ہوا تھا... بلکل اوسط سے بھی نیچے درجے کا تجزیہ کیا ہے آپ نے. ن

[@rajasufyan3876]

Men of all times, Ashir Azeem.

[@urduadabkaynaam]

This Gentlemen has remarkably expressed his eye opening thoughts to the people.

[@mrjason7384]

Great Job . It is one of the naked truths of our institutions if u obey what the politician, General, Extreme High Class, Extreme Business men will say you will get a lot of benefits if u don't or obey the law ur life will become hell.

[@futuresuperpoweria7700]

The real of Pakistan, Great Sir Ashar Azeem,. I have shared this video on Whatsapp.

[@farahniazi9752]

Best as always, Aashir Azeem 👍😍

[@TheEmiratesGuy_1]

im big fan of your thoughts ۔Man, this person is a diamond. Rally should be such people to improve our society, but unfortunately. They are sitting there but the things they are highlighting should really understand our bureaucracy what to do we are still crying over our fate in 70 years. Masha Allah brother thank you thank you

[@alamarmani3517]

Thank you TCM Ashir Azeem our National hero, I am so sorry as a Pakistani Apke k Sath Jo bhi howa esa ni hona chaiye tha AP bhot hi Legend hen, apko dekh kr Bachpan ka Mashore zamana drama Dhowan yad ah gya

[@ayeshasaqib3312]

man you are so patriotic and pure.Proud of you

[@Past-HUB]

The notion that individuals from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more susceptible to manipulation isn’t universally accurate. People from all backgrounds can be influenced, regardless of their social class. The key is to have robust training, ethical guidelines, and oversight in place for civil servants to ensure they make impartial decisions.

[@uiuxshoaib]

True, that part was not so accurate. So lower and middle class people are very ethical and do work responsibly. And yes, opposite can also be true, that they start thinking about their own benefit.

[@saba.hafeez6356]

Good job done. please its request come out on screen all the senior heros like Sir Ashir. Our country need these peoples for grow. Now this is the time for realise the bad situation which we will face in future..😢

[@BahriaEnclaveIsb]

Hats off to you Ashir you are doing great service to country. True son of soil

[@mkqazi]

Dear Asher...you nailed it....an absolute bitter stinking truth...we have lost it the game...

[@TSGUJJAR1234]

Well come to aashir Bhai mashallah jeetey rahain zindabad

[@hussammehboob88]

Absolutely agree with Ashir Azeem. The man has hit the nail on its head. People in Pakistan don't join bureaucracy because they have a burning desire to serve the nation. They do it for the status and the perks and anything which is built on a rickety foundation cannot be stable.

[@asharnaqvi3922]

Ma ikhtelaaaf karta hu ashir saahab aapki BAAT say.. ya politicians n beaurocrates kuch nhi .. jarr burai ki generals hain .. unse power chheen li jaaye sb masla hul hojayega

[@dattaprasadjoshi6191]

Pakistan is very unfortunate to have extremely corrupt Politicians, Military, Administration, Judiciary and Media. Very much awam dushman and mulk dushman.

[@muzamilfarid6936]

Incredible insight into technicalities of beaurucracy, can listen for hours....

[@lifewrites5930]

People are criticising bureaucrats, however Ashir Sahab is supporting them, because they are power less with powerful mentality, the era of criticism should be stopped in the Country and pragmatic debates must be initiated to propose reforms and must take politicians accountable, that why they are not making institutions independents. In my point of view bureaucrats needs to start a moment like judges moment in zardari era and disobedience moment to make themselves independent from political pressure and this will be the only reform which will create a environment of good governance

[@forexlover620]

bureaucracy is the biggest hurdle in progress. they are the instruments to channelize the corruptions in Pak. They never consider themselves the servant of public in Pakistan.

[@BunnyJabran]

Been following Ashir saab's videos on YT on his channel and listening him collabing with others... amazing

[@sujitkoshyvarkey1965]

I am sitting in India, watching this critique of the Pakistani bureaucracy. The paralells are amazing, particularly the recruitment from a different, less affluent strata of society. Thank you for this very informative podcast

[@harshnaik6989]

Both has same roots , British

[@rahimhaider5305]

We as a nation have lost an irreplaceable asset.. your every word is a slap

[@kawan5851]

Bureaucracy includes Army Officers and Top judges as well. They all are enjoying together and protect the interests of each other. As long as Pakistan remains in existence our Bureaucracy will continue to enjoy and no one can touch them. All politicians have failed to reform them and no politician can reform this Bureaucracy Mafia. So it is a useless discussion.

[@gujarsaeed]

عاشر عظیم ۔ حقیقت میں ایک عظیم انسان ہے

[@muhammadnuman7841]

Great job TCP a new addition.. Highly appreciated 🎉

[@oot.pataaangvlogs]

I respect your opinion experience.... But I will give only one suggestion and this will change the entire system machinery.... "Full stop to perks and green paradise for css persons" then u will find the real man real Muslim real passionate person who will come over to change the system .... Nowadays css pms qualifiers only come to enjoy VVIP they don't have any thing to do with country... Thanks ... Former Police (R)

[@fi8er1]

In the current state of affair, this change will put corruption through the roof.

[@satarkhan727]

Sir, your observations r perfect. These r required to follow.

[@safamarwa836]

Aap Qoom k hero hooo... Allah Dikh raha hy..allah aap ko aur himmat dy..aap Qoom k leye ek roll madol ho .💝💝💝💗💗💓💓🤲🤲🤲🤲

[@Fsla83]

Respect for u Sir........ we need people like u....

[@Leo-qy6xb]

you don't need people like him, you need to be like him.

[@pennyhofstader2461]

Kiyun marwana bichare ko toheen i risalat lga kr marfiya jayega. Sir jahan ho wahan hi raho. Pakistan dont deserve u

[@anilasaleem2158]

Best of Luck Asher Azeem ,u r indeed a gem of an Azeem guy, May Allah bless u strength & bring out more people like u that can actually one day be able to bring the revolution thay this country needs.

[@sulemankhawaja6188]

Amazing You are Right 💯👍🏻 You are alwaysexpressing the vulnerable issues of this country

[@ghulamishaqkhankhan5614]

insightfull,goodluck TCM really doing great job future is yours.....,IA soon crosss millions of subscribers...

[@sobiaansari6901]

Thanks alot Ashir Azeem for the eye opening discussion take home message is that first of all we need to be honest ourselves to stay upright n to do honest job for our motherland. These days we badly lack tarbiya which starts from homes n schools parents need to pay more attention towards tarbiya.

[@changez8098]

14:03 ahad cheema was advisor to PM shahbaz & now advisor establishment, the official head of Pak's bureaucracy. Fawad & ahab are both the perfect egs of notoriously corrupt bureaucrats.

[@amaimtahir3844]

Good to see you sir....we really miss you..

[@eclectic8136]

Masha Allah Ashir sb is one of the fakest people alive. He personified a hero in Dhuan, he personified a hero during his career as we learn from the stories of personal integrity he frequently tells us, and most young people are teary-eyed as they comment. In reality, he has always been running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. His take on the current state of affairs on his youtube channel can have an eye-opening effect on many of us. Mr. Ashir, who for years was lecturing us about how- bad-establishment-is, suddenly told us that establishment should clean the mess by doing what it is already doing, which is absolutely justified and the only solution available to Pakistani problems. Now, this revelation from Ashir sb came at a time when the establishment was literally losing its absolute grip over Pakistani politics under huge public pressure and anger and in desperation for survival the establishment has imposed a de facto ban on the most popular political party of Pakistan. But the good part is that a generation has been exposed to the truth about Pakistani establishment, and no one can undo that. It is going to go a long way. But it has unmasked many pseudo heroes duping people for a greater youtube subscription. Mr. Ashir is one of them. A true anti-hero.

[@rajasohailazharawan9457]

AshiR aaZeeM...❤❤ LOVE YOU, SIRR....🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰😢 AP KO MUlk se bahar dekhh kar bhOt buraa lag raa hy😢 Wjah be jaantay hen... iiLfaaz khatam hen... ILfaaz nii hen.. PAKISTAN 🇵🇰 ZINDABAD 😢😢

[@arshaddurrani3885]

Pleasure listening to you,always.

[@rivonews5358]

A great man

[@awaismushtaq5719]

This gentle-man was a member of Pakistani military and Pakistani Bureaucracy. I have only one thing to say with all respect to his analysis and all that if he couldn't make amends to the bad ways of our bureaucracy while he was one of them then talking about it while enjoying the coziness of Canada is of no use. Partly, he is admitting that he couldn't make things right and fled the country, legally though, with an excuse of caring for his children's future. All those of you who have left the country, please, refrain yourself from undue comments and useless analyses because you are no longer part of the society and please, enjoy the one you have become a part of. Thanks!

[@HaroonKhan_7319]

So by your maxim, people shouldn't be talking against Israel's oppression of Palestinians because they are not citizens of either state?

[@awaismushtaq5719]

@@HaroonKhan_7319 nope! Sir, you miss the point. People who once were part of an organisation and had all the authority and yet, for whatever reason, couldn't exercise that authority to make things right and decided to use some twisted logic to excuse themselves of which was once their very responsibility, must stop being philosophical the way this gentleman now is. Simple! What is happening in middle east is, however, a different story. The two issues are disconnected, sir. What I fail to understand is why these people start coming up with solutions all of a sudden once they are out of the organisation they once were part of. What were they doing when they were part of it and when they had all the authority? Perhaps your brain is richer than mine sir, and you can help me understand.

[@HaroonKhan_7319]

@@awaismushtaq5719 i really appreciate the way you have responded, i respect you and your opinion. However Ashir Azeem, when he was in customs service, tried to bring reforms in his own capacity but soon was labelled as corrupt and discharge from service. So I dont think it is right to say that people dont work for what they believe. And even so if someone who has been on the wrong side, decides to speak against it and realise and accept their mistakes, should be appreciated. For we see very few officers politicians etc accepting their mistakes wrongs in system.

[@awaismushtaq5719]

@@HaroonKhan_7319 sir I know the story of his making a system for clearance in 72 hours that once took and still does 40 days. I know he was labelled as persona-non-grata by customs' Baboos and was accused of stealing 1100 full-sized containers from the port. He was suspended from active duty for no less than 7 years or so, I am not sure about duration though. It was probably then he decided to take advantage of his military and civil service and being a Christian and migrate all the way to Canada. The point(s) that he is making now is / are moot. He must disconnect and desist. Don't you think, sir, that we still in Pakistan aren't aware of problems civil and military bureaucracy is causing? And about accepting his failure, well, that is quite evident from his departure that he failed and he needed to put it on something or someone and for him it was the future of his children. I don't blame him for migrating but at least he shouldn't squirm in the pain of the country he left as we all know the PAIN he was in.

[@shazainbaloch2538]

When we realized we lost Ashir Azeem like Diamonds, that would be too late. 😢 ❤❤🇵🇰 #IK ZindaBad #Pakistan

[@habibaarain2617]

Such a sound analysis by him👏🏻👍🏻

[@sohaibusmani7282]

Didn't agree with the point that bureaucracy only belongs to the elite, corruption or bribery is an individual bad, it had nothing to do with family background

[@khananwar5014]

ABSOLUTY. BRILLIANT 😮❤

[@sabaraay9561]

Sad fact of Pakistan's bereaucracy.... The way the man speaks is really adorable. Can u plz make a video on technocrats?

[@MuhammadWaseem-hj4yq]

پاکستان میں ہر بندے کو اپنا شعبہ چھوڑ کر ہر کام میں ٹانگ اڑانے کا شوق ہے

[@faizan_03]

Amazing and to the point video. TCM Original 🎉❤

[@ShaniKhan20008]

Well said agreed with you.... But there is no space for honest man in this country....

[@mananawan1786]

A True patriotic men ❤️ Pakistan don't deserve you sir💯

[@superaijaz]

Very unfortunate, we lost this genius. A country where life is difficult for every honest person.

[@waseemijaz6136]

Great man.. may you live long. Amen

[@kiranbibi1355]

Extraordinary! Work

[@Axiom_1983]

Suppose theres a man who's looking at a small pond of water & he wants to get to the source of that water which is a huge lake. But the problem is that he doesn't knows how to get there and what to do about it later. There comes a second person. He says that I know the answer to both of your questions. What am I getting out of it if I tell you? The first person will surely offer him some huge rewards like you'll get this small pond & the land around it. You'll have fruit laden trees, green pastures for animals & you can build a huge house on this land. Both persons get what they wanted. This first person is the govt and the second one is bureaucracy. If the bureaucracy doesn't tells the govt the way to the source lake, they can never get there. Just coz both of them are greedy (human nature), they take control of the source & leave nothing for the people who live next to that piece of land. Either they'll have to beg to get some of that or they'll have to bribe or stay like that coz they're helpless. Bureaucracy can only be handled if there's a strong & accountable local govt system & an active strict law. Since we're mentally slaves to the crown, we'll never want both of them. People have undermined their power and they stay quiet because either they're afraid or they're illiterate or they have some interests. Only solution is : Take the divine law (Quran & Sunnah) as the law. Everyone can keep crying till that happens.