Teachers Arrested in Cheating Scandal

It happened in FLA.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

I feel that a big reason for something like this is because we're more concerned with graduation rates. It's about just getting them in and out rather than them actually learning anything.

[@rockfire1669]

@@veramae4098 schools can afford to do better. It is just simply that the more amenities the school has, than more students will go to your school. This makes schools spend barely any money (that they don’t pocket) on how to teach students a subject.

[@marcodarko6941]

Keep throwing more and more money at everything because that solves it all. You must be a democrat because money alone doesn't solve the root problems. @@veramae4098

[@dougjones9493]

They likely did practice test and kids failed horably. Teachers, at that failure rate we will not get additional funding. Bonus to all of you if test results are a very high percentage of high passes.

[@volvo09]

​@@veramae4098 how would money solve this? it's already being wasted.

[@katiekane5247]

@@marcodarko6941 keep enjoying the two party circus! Is that a tent I smell burning?

[@stuffandjunkandthings364]

I have always found that multiple choice exams (for the most part) usually contain one correct answer (duh), one answer close to being correct, and two from way out in left field. So, my tactic if I didn't know the answer was "eliminate the BS", and that would leave me with a 50/50 shot of getting the answer correct, even when I didn't truly "know". This worked out well until I was teaching my daughter to do the same thing, and the teacher asked why she was crossing answers on her tests, and she replied "eliminating the bullshit". That was a fun parent/ teacher conference.

[@bcatbb2896]

i did the same during my college years. whenever i dont know a multiple choice question, i go with process of elimination and that usually get me through

[@nolongeramused8135]

At one time I was involved in creating/updating professional certification exams used worldwide. On the math section of it (which was a lot) there was always a series of questions that built upon each other, and the the most common wrong answer (divide by either n, or n-1) was always provided. Then each subsequent calculation would also include answers that were based on getting the wrong answer at the beginning. So, screw it up at the beginning and you'd end up missing up to five questions, even if you did the rest of them correctly. If I could determine more ways to do something wrong, or just something that seemed like it might apply, I'd make sure to include those answers to choose from as well. Some people thought I was being "mean," but I told them I didn't want to work with people who didn't know WTF they were doing.

[@jamesgorman5241]

You should have worded it differently, if you slip and say something you shouldn't in front of kids they will repeat it and often to the worst possible person.

[@EvilGrin]

Next time, teach your daughter to tell the teacher that "the voices" told her these choices must be destroyed or there will be blood. THAT will be a fun conference... Also I don't see the problem, if they put the BS in, they can't complain if it's called out. It's a solution to an existing problem, and that's what actually will help you cope in life

[@jhoughjr1]

Sounds like a great waste of time

[@susantownsend8397]

Steve, this has been a problem since the introduction of state standardized tests. I taught at a school that consistently had exceptionally high scores, but for a good reason. It was a public school that was mandated to have a population representative of the district’s population so we had students from every ethnic, socioeconomic, and ability level. There were 2 reasons why our scores were so high. First and foremost, while we had students with limitations of every kind, every student had someone in their life who cared enough about education to submit their name for the lottery from which students were selected. Second, because we also worked extensively with university education students, the teachers were required to have experience and advanced training. Because our scores were so high, we were constantly monitored to prevent cheating and we bent over backwards to avoid any appearance or even vague suggestion of cheating. We were well aware of cheating schemes throughout the state. I hope they throw the book at any teacher found guilty of cheating.

[@azza-in_this_day_and_age]

the tallest nail gets hammered down

[@davidh9638]

@azza Well, sure. You can mow the tallest grass shorter, but you can't mow the short grass taller.

[@zotaninoron3548]

@@davidh9638 If you improve and enrich the soil in which the grass grow, they're more likely to grow taller. Easier for a flower to bloom in a garden than a desert.

[@Sometimes_Always]

Your explanation is terrible and makes little sense about the problems of cheating in regards to standardized testing. You make zero mention of why the scores at your school were so "high" due to cheating. What lottery are you referring to? All you ultimately did was brag about how "you" guys were good at your job. A rather pedantic viewpoint about how cheating is related to state standardized tests.

[@stephenjacks8196]

Modern "education" is moronic. The worst patchwork. K-5 gets up early before their parents. They learn best early AM. But because working parents need childcare, the childcare er, school, K-5 is 9am to 3pm with afterschool activities till you pick up your kids after work. Pre-schooler minds easily learn Algebra but not Ordinal number operations. Algebra is difficult for older kids because of our way of teaching "'Rithmatic". Older, 6-12, have growing bodies and require more sleep; school starts earlier for them and they don't learn as well. But because farmers require teens to work the fields (or McDonalds) they go to school too early so leave earlier to work (or more importantly, Football). So we have Education managed as a government service, not with the aim of creating better smarter American citizens.

[@jackiekjono]

When I was in high school, I got my first job working at a public high school in the summer sorting the mail and answering the phone. My mother had told my supervisor that she wanted me to work on my typing. On my first day, my supervisor gave me a copy of the Doctoral dissertation of one of the assistant principals. I was to retype the whole thing with a different assistant principals name on it. I categorically refused to do it and spent a good 20 minutes yelling at both of the assistant principals. Neither of them understood why I was so upset but, I did not lose the job and the second AP eventually decided, he would do the typing himself.

[@carvanok4226]

There is nothing unethical about typing someone's paper, if they pay you for your service.

[@regulator18E]

@@carvanok4226 but there's certainly something unethical about typing it with a different authors name. You know, like what we're actually talking about here

[@michaelgleason4791]

@@regulator18E why let facts get in the way of soap box ethics?

[@carvanok4226]

@@regulator18E Why, would a teacher expose you to something like that, it is unethical. I thought you where talking about just typing, it that was unethical, I paid many people to do my typing all the way through my Masters degree.

[@Loccyster]

@@carvanok4226, we can all tell, by your, punctuation. that you paid, other people to do! your typing .

[@karenstein8261]

To play devils advocate: Once I taught. When testing time came, nearly all my students passed, while other teachers had nearly every student fail. You bet my class was scrutinized! Why the difference? Not to brag, but I went out of the way to present the difficult material in terms that the students understood. I set up demonstrations of abstract concepts so the students could accept them.

[@davidh9638]

It's called "teaching."

[@tegimr]

Not devil's advocate. . . . It's the truth. Not all spectacular results are because of great teaching, sometimes there are deplorable teachers teaching to the test.

[@danparish1344]

I’ve had some amazing teachers but most teachers aren’t great at their job or remarkable people in general. Education majors, ironically, have the lowest (or near lowest) metrics in terms of academic performance and standardized test scores compared to other majors. It makes sense though, as a general rule of thumb, more talented people tend to flock towards higher paying careers.

[@keithblackie969]

The movie Stand and Deliver was about real life events. One school, one class and a whole lot of outliers.

[@Tzunamii777]

Those that can't do, Teach.

[@peteengard9966]

I once had a conference with my grandsons principal. She said they teach to the MCAS test. I asked why not beyond and above MCAS ? She honestly told me that that was the minimum standard they were to achieve. So schools strive for the minimum requirements.

[@davidh9638]

…and struggle and cheat to meet them. And think they deserve more money.

[@d.t.r.8036]

Did she actually use the words "teach to the [test]"? I've never known a teacher or school administrator to say that is something that they do.

[@dualsportrider3221]

Have u tried passing a 6th grade test urself. U have no idea what min is for it.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@d.t.r.8036 _"I've never known a teacher or school administrator to say that is something that they do."_ I have. And that was where teaching to the test was specifically prohibited.

[@peteengard9966]

@@d.t.r.8036 Yes. Teach to the test.

[@DarkPesco]

I would like to point out that underpaying instructors then linking further pay to stellar scores encourages this. Make a teacher struggle then promise to pay more if the kids suddenly turn into little Einsteins...what could go wrong?

[@davidh9638]

So does overpaying instructors then linking further pay to stellar scores.

[@atticstattic]

@@davidh9638 You're funny

[@WileyCoyoteSuperGenius]

Absolutely. No child left behind logic grading schools on test scores alone is a set up for absolute FAILURE FOR KIDS AND TEACHERS

[@atticstattic]

@Anon Ymous No, they don't, and no, they don't

[@philipbohi983]

Bottom line: Do not link compensation to grades or scores, only to the level of effort put forth doing the job of teaching. Learning is the students responsibility. Monitor the job done by the teacher (lesson plans, classroom exercises, what and how they teach, and how they perform as an employee of the school). Pay them for THEIR performance, not the students. Under/Over…doesn’t matter. Those are relative terms. It could be what the job/career averages relative to other career fields, or relative to that field only but measured by peer compensation, or more likely it’s relative to the lifestyle the employee CHOOSES to live…meaning, if you choose a career that offers a certain comp level, then adjust your spending accordingly. Teachers A and B both make $XX. Teacher A lives in a modest home, drives a modest car, saves money for retirement, vacations, and life changes, manages debt closely, and doesn’t spend money irresponsibly. Teacher B has a fancy downtown loft with hefty HOA dues, drives luxury cars they lease and swap every few years, wears designer labels, gets the latest iphone on release day, gets his/her/they/their hair done weekly, likes to vape and drink top shelf, goes out to restaurants a lot instead of the grocery store…except to get avocados for their toast, and stops at Starfuks every single day for an overpriced muffin and a ‘grande green tea latte one-pump nonfat 5 scoop matcha no-foam added whip extra caramel drizzle with a double splash of soy.’ And has NO savings and is making minimum payments on 3 credit cards, two of which are maxed out.

[@xlerb2286]

As to students asking if the prof made a mistake, I've caught a couple prof mistakes on tests. One was a nasty EE digital logic test that it took the instructor and I ten minutes to work through the problem to find out he (and 95% of the class) indeed had the wrong answer. The prof gave me a rare smile and a "well done". But I didn't win any friends in the class that day. He was a bit on the stern and unbending side. I can't imagine him ever cheating, or having any mercy for cheaters.

[@jstokes5582]

I had an older physics professor that I visited during office hours to ask a few questions and he had the exams graded. He was wondering why such a high number of students missed a certain question and I pointed out that his answer key was wrong. I saved him from being embarrassed in front of a large lecture hall and of course get my exam correctly graded.

[@Thomas-pu7le]

I had a similar experience on a calculus problem (homework.) Worked it multiple times without getting an answer. Went to the prof. He checked the teacher's book, then plugged the assignment into Mathematica. There wasn't an answer. Whoever had changed the problem parameters for that edition of the textbook created an unsolvable problem. Prof spent several minutes addressing it the next day. (I was the only one who asked him about the problem - others either slacking or off campus.)

[@keithmalmberg8395]

The schools push the results of these tests to the point that the school administration is willing to sacrifice actually teaching. My wife quit teaching because of this policy, as well as the lack of support for students and teachers by parents.

[@Dave-ty2qp]

With all the undue pressure put upon our teachers I really don't understand why anyone would want to teach. My school days were many decades ago in a galaxy far far away compared to here and now. We actually had good teachers and educators in the 50's, and 60's. They wanted to serve the students with the ability to succeed in life to the best of our individual abilities. Some of those teachers were actually great, and set an example we all remember and respect, but they were all good at their jobs. I now look back on those days and wish that the teachers that taught my children actually cared about them instead of the curriculum. Oh well, that is where parenting came in. LOL

[@Thomas-pu7le]

@@Dave-ty2qp re: cared about students instead of curriculum A lot of teachers are clueless about the curriculum and teaching. They just regurgitate whatever they're told without thinking. That's one of the reasons kids are so bad with math - teachers don't comprehend it.

[@Dave-ty2qp]

@@Thomas-pu7le I believe you Thomas. The new math, and algebra are at best "Messsed Up". It was simple, and doable back in the day when we were suppose to come up with the right answers. Now they have to justify the logic for an estimate. That ain't math!

[@hogger51]

Steve: How about a follow up on the actual legalities here ie what makes these arrestable offenses (jail time and fines) as opposed to administrative offenses (suspension and termination from job)?

[@nocalsteve]

If they’re getting money for test results, and they cheat to get that money then they’re committing fraud.

[@TheStevehuff]

@@nocalsteve But how much did they actually get for each student that passed?

[@danoberste8146]

@@nocalsteve I can't speak for all states, but in Arkansas the only "money" that teachers get for good grades is additional funding for their school district due to high scores on standardized tests. The teachers are cheating to help their kids pass these high stakes tests. It results in new books, facilities repairs, etc. Teacher aren't doing this for personal money.

[@russellhltn1396]

@@TheStevehuff According to the video, $25-50/pass. Depending on the size of the class, that can add up.

[@crinklecut3790]

There are still some good teachers out there. My wife is one of them. But she’s retiring early because nothing is worth putting up with the children, parents, administrators, and other teachers now.

[@marcodarko6941]

I know of a great math teacher, a veritable human calculator chased out of a school (by the adminstrators, principle, coaches) and forced to resign because not allowing the failing star athletes a pass was completely forbidden. Unfortunately that made the made the teacher more "woke" and forced more into the leftist idealogy about men. It's a crying shame.

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Especially if you're a specialty teacher like a music or language teacher ,they are spread waay too thin ; forced to teach more and more kids every year, sometimes travelling between schools to teach hundreds of different students every day..

[@marcodarko6941]

I'd be willing to provide a name, but I am not into doxxing people for intimidation like you pos radical leftists enjoy doing to people.@@witebatman edit: I wonder why your reply isn't showing up in the thread but shows up in my notification box.. you must be one of susan's special pets with special posting privileges.

[@tedkaczynskiamericanhero3916]

@@marcodarko6941 They get programmed from the start of public schools and even more so in college. There's a reason the country is on fire, and it's got a lot to do with the education system. I just started home school for mykids, they're already at where they're supposed to be for the next grade lol

[@marcodarko6941]

Far right.. what other labels are you going to slap on me.. since you leftists love to divide and segregate people in a heirarchy structure.. victim classes and such. I've been called a whole lot of various disparaging names by you people over the years, the sort of names towards groups you people claim to champion a cause for. The only thing is I don't break down and cry about it, I just point out your lies, inconsistencies and hypocrisy.. and that tends to really incense and enflame you all. @@witebatman

[@dougjones9493]

Steve, I had a question on a college test where teacher marked my answer wrong. I showed him in the assigned book that my answer was correct, he said the question was from another book and that answer was wrong. He would not budge so I took it to the Dean and he was forced to mark it right. It was the principal not the 2 mark

[@RebelTvShka]

Congratulations.

[@Up2_nogood]

@Bryan Smith Academia is toxic.

[@robertewalt7789]

That’s a bad way to develop an exam.

[@JAllen01]

I hate when I am arguing one question for a 100% vs a 99% not arguing one question to pass or not so I clearly understand the meterial.. they then treat me like I am stupid instead of saying o that question was written incorrectly and fixing it.

[@cericat]

@@JAllen01 I think one of my "favourites" was doing an old test as a quiz and having to point out to the teacher that the answer had been wrong for decades and was actually this. At least he didn't fight that, he looked it up and scratched out the question on everyone's sheets when marking. Hopefully he's still that open to correction considering he's the current headmaster of our Highschool.

[@gluberfandenflaskersoff7964]

That happens in EVERY test in Fla. Go to the Fire Academy, at the end you will get a 2 to 3 day course that is all about the written test, with a study guide that has 97% of the questions WORD FOR WORD. Police Academy, Paramedic School, Nursing School...pick a profession. That kind of crap is RAMPANT in Fla and has been for as long as I have been alive.

[@paul.van.santvoord1232]

Not just Fla. Why do the rest of the world see rhe USA school system as broken?

[@jhoughjr1]

Yeah why would the study material contain what they need for the test?

[@freedustin]

@@jhoughjr1 because that is stupid. The test is supposed to test your ability to think beyond the study. The study is to prepare you for a dynamic test, not play a memory game.

[@ronmcmartin4513]

@@billrhallowell--Most teachers vote Democrat. FACT!

[@cyclopsvision6370]

memorization of standard procedures is part of the job

[@mooing_cowmilk]

The main problem with the education system of which I don't have a solution to is the metric used to measure the level of success becomes the goal and not the learning itself.

[@chriskatz2355]

This is a common practice in almost every highschool

[@Sometimes_Always]

What people are not realizing are that the majority of questions are NOT created by teachers but by the textbook publishing house (or in this case the state of Florida). The exams are comprised of questions that come from a "test bank" that is supplied to instructors via an online portal or a DVD/CD disk. As explained to me by a MacMillan sales representative the test questions are created and peer reviewed by professional/experts for correctness, level of difficulty, and a few other metrics before they are finalized into the given test bank. These "test banks" are far superior in every way, shape, or form when teaching from the respective textbook. There is no way a single teacher can come close to generating similar questions that will reach the breadth and depth needed for a given subject. The teacher can simply select or choose to randomly generate an exam. The pros are that test banks are faster, more accurate, and giving tests in this format yields statistical information at a glance that can be used to enhance student learning. The cons are that a MAJORITY of these test banks are easily copied and shared online. You can literally search the internet for any textbook's test bank being used in your daughter/son's class and you'll likely find the test bank for it. There is a test bank for EVERY modern day textbook. It's just a matter of time before someone shares it online. I recently went back to school after nearly 20 years to pursue a nursing degree. Every exam we had was administered electronically. It was amazing to see students sometimes finish a 100 question exam in several minutes. I did the math and leniently gave a time of 5 seconds to read the question and 5 seconds to read all multiple choice responses. That's only 10 seconds to read each question and answer it. The reality is that it takes closer to 30-60 seconds to correctly read the question and every choice- Note: these were technical, medical/nursing questions regarding anatomy, pharmacology, and various pathologies. Extending this out.. 10 seconds x 100 questions = 1000 seconds = ~16 minutes. She was done in 10 minutes. That's way under the statistical norm and literally impossible to achieve. You also need to factor in loading time and clicking the right answer. There's no humanly way possible to read each question and answer it in the time frame of 10 minutes. The only way you can answer questions this fast is if you already knew the question and the various choices in order to immediately select the right answer. After class I stopped her in the hallway and shared my calculations with her. I was very subtle about it and she immediately understood and thanked me for the insight. We ended up have a very interesting conversation about testing techniques. Access to a majority of this material is literally a google search away. There are forums/websites dedicated to sharing ALL this information that can be searched down to the exact school, the exact class, the exact teacher, and the exact assignment. This is how testing is being done at the college level and apparently at the high school level. There are "stories" about SE asian exchange students who would have other SE asian exchange students sit in for them during midterm and final exams at the college level. In a class of 200+ students there's almost zero chance the instructor/proctor/TA is going to know everyone and recognize one asian face on a license/passport vs another student. No institution is immune to academic dishonesty but hopefully making examples of the ones they catch proves to be a deterrent that it won't be tolerated.

[@climber950]

Thank you so much Steve for differing that education don’t need to be college. So many trades that pay better than many college educated people who also have more debt.

[@FernandoChaves]

The bar to meet for teaching credentials is pretty low. I understand respecting the difficulty of their vocation....but they did not in general meet much of a bar for their credentials. I remember the education majors at my university earning extra credit for doing artistic bulletin boards in the hallways. I knew people that boosted their grades in classes to an A by doing such things. I was a science major (RN then pre-med) and remember how stunned the education majors were when they took a basic biology course. What they covered in a full semester was what a science major covered in a few weeks. They would often go to the professor and ask for extra credit by doing some "arts and crafts". I remember my cell biology prof quit teaching their basic bio course because he simply couldn't take that any more. Knowing that many of the students went on to be high school biology teachers wore on his conscience. Yep. The same ones that are teaching our kids now. The same ones likely partly responsible for people not understanding the pandemic.

[@richardross7219]

That happened in CT several years ago where the politician wanted it to look like the students had improved under that politician. $50 is cheap for straight "A"s. A neighbor and classmate got straight "A"s through high school. She got a new car from her Dad. With degrees meaning less these days, companies have to use competency exams as part of the selection process. Good Luck, Rick

[@GeorgieB1965]

I think this happened in Hartford, where Sheff v O'Neil originated.

[@richardross7219]

@@GeorgieB1965 The one that I'm remembering was much more recent. The high school graduates now are very ignorant and its because of the teachers. I graduated from high school in the 1960s and we had a lot of standards to meet. When I taught at UCONN in the 80s and 90s it was sad how much of the basics the students didn't know nor understand. Especially in math, history, and finance. Good Luck, Rick

[@AmyB1961]

@@richardross7219 I appreciate your input, because I've just gotten into this with a supposed "educator" on this very video. They believe they are smarter than all who do not have degrees, for one thing, and wrote comments to tell us about it. From what I can see, they're just an indoctrinated fool, sadly.

[@richardross7219]

@@AmyB1961 Yeah. I have several degrees and even taught engineering at a university for a while. I've known several extremely smart men who never got beyond high school. I listened and learned a lot from them. I've known countless educated idiots. They think that their certificate of intelligence makes them smarter and superior. I'm usually in jeans and a t shirt so, I get looked down on, much of the time. You always have to consider the source. If an idiot calls you an idiot, you're probably pretty smart. Laugh and walk away. Good Luck, Rick

[@AmyB1961]

@@richardross7219 Yes, I always consider sources. 🙂 I did walk away, but had to catch them out after they edited their initial reply to me to make it look like I agreed that i got my personal medical info from a "crack dealer." (They actually said: "your crack dealer...") Such a dishonest person she/he is, but again...sources. Have a good day.

[@rockyroad7345]

Schools have been graduating kids for decades who can't read or write. They never want to be held accountable, but they always want more money.

[@LadyViolet1]

I find it interesting that the "study guides" were considered cheating. This reminds me of my history teacher back in high school who would always show us what was going to be on the chapter test a week before. The difference is that they were always open questions that could be answered in a ton of ways and he wouldn't provide a specific answer. The reason he said he did it like that was that he just wants his students to learn and articulate what they learned well. They were also his tests so he had a lot of discretion in how he administered them (as opposed to state tests).

[@TheEudaemonicPlague]

"I find it interesting that the "study guides" were considered cheating." Why? They were obviously not actually study guides, but the actual test complete with answers. That's always cheating, and not merely "considered cheating". Your choice of words gives the impression that you didn't know that that is cheating. Have you been in such a situation then, and told you were looking at a study guide, when it gave the exact questions and answers?

[@LadyViolet1]

@@TheEudaemonicPlague No, I suppose I should have said I find the situation funny instead given my actual experiences or simply said it reminded me of what I described.

[@cericat]

@@LadyViolet1 It used to be common we'd be given multiple tests from previous years, "the questions on this year's test will likely be here", as a way to prep for the major exams. So while we weren't just given the answers I could see where people would feel that was cheating as well. About half of my official (state organised not school) trial English final exam made a return the next year which for someone with a good memory is just asking to skew results instead of producing new material to encourage teaching a more varied syllabus instead of focusing on what is "known" will be in tests. There's a lot of failures in education, but most are structural when it comes to testing.

[@StaitlyNatters]

In Australia we have a standardised test for school years 3,5,7 and 9. The teachers teach for the test. They produced there teaching program for the student to pass this test. The test ranks and grades the various schools by their results. The higher achieving schools get better funding giving a better teacher income, better program funding, and better overall school improvements. Schools turn a blind eye to this as it is a net benefit for them. My son, who has education difficulties was regularly given homework that targeted the various testing requirements for a pass. This has been both a blessing and a curse for him. Yes, he did get a pass on the test, but it was always a struggle to get him involved in this homework and the school work that he did complete was not of the best standard, but I was always assured it was enough for him to pass the standardised tests. I do believe that a standardised test does have some merit, but to directly relate that to funding or any other financial inducements is wrong. Every student has different interests and learning styles, by forcing the standardised tests to be a financial inducement for improvement removes the teachers creativity and reduces the students broader knowledge base for the future.

[@dennisberman4640]

Ben - On top of that white and blue truck to Steve's left. Center shelf.

[@ethics3]

Students have been given copies of the standardized testing tests to study for weeks before actually having to do the testing. This has been going on for over 34 years in Ontario canada . Way back in the mid 80 s it was noticed students were graduating or moving forward with completely substandard knowledge in the courses they had studied in. The provincial government wanted to start testing the teachers on their teaching abilities but the teachers and the teachers union put a stop to that happening. So the only avenue was to introduce standardized testing to the students.. So the teachers would in effect allow the students to cheat by producing exact study guides for the students. Funny how something in one country like canada can be so wrong but not acted on , but down in America you are doing the right thing and prosecuting those responsible for this disgusting practice .

[@NitDraws]

So, I didn't go to my accounting class because the teacher taught straight out the book. I just read the book on my own and only went on test days. There was also an online program we had to follow which was in more depth. I see no reason to go to the teacher's class. At the end of the semester, I was given an F despite passing every test with a B or greater. Fought it, got a refund, and just took the CLEP test and passed. /shrug

[@ateamfan42]

In college I took a philosophy class as part of my "general education" requirements. The instructor was a bit of an idiot, but believed he was brilliant. (His solution to prevent cheating on the exams was to tell use he made two different exams, and make sure no one sitting next to each other had the same exam. In actuality, there was only one exam, printed on two different colored paper.) He also taught the exactly same material each semester, straight out of the book. Students figured out (and word go around), that most people could just read the book and ace the exams, so lots of students stopped attending classes. His solution to that was to institute a strict attendance requirement (as part of the final grade). He therefore forced us all to have assigned seats in the lecture room, like little children, so that he could track attendance each class.

[@NitDraws]

@@ateamfan42 Yeah, it's so dumb. As far as I was concerned, the class should have been for free if they don't teach. Even online classes usually have videos referring to irl examples, but this teacher might as well just have been an audio book, or rather, the class because he had the class read it for him.

[@KainaX122]

It’s sad that American schooling has devolved to concern about grade scores rather than whether the kids are actually learning anything. We need a MAJOR change in our education system’s structure but I wouldn’t know where to start

[@DeAndreEllison]

It's not just school... It's businesses as well... some will not even look at you, interview you if you don't have a degree.. or even a certain GPA from a certain class of college... if the end result expectation is to have a piece of paper, then it's no wonder the upstream portions of the process is to just get you that piece of paper

[@markkoeppel7932]

I proctored GED's and I had someone trying to cheat... It was REALLY funny because he sat in the wrong seat for 2 parts of the exam so he was using the wrong answers for that book... Lol

[@brianyoung9014]

Steve its very nice to listen to some one with integrity, thanks.

[@karlrovey]

I remember a question on the math praxis test for teachers (you have to take it even if you won't be teaching math) that was problematic. Yes, you could figure out the correct answer, but it required you to make an assumption that you really shouldn't make with measurements or number lines. As I remember it, the question had a number line and had a dot on the line between two of the given integers. I believe it was between one and two and slightly closer to two, with no given reference points between the two. Then you were given a multiple choice option with different fractional values. Two of them were between one and two. This is where the problem comes in. Visually, you can tell that it should be one of the answers, but due to the precision of the number line, you can't actually make that assumption.

[@axepagode33626]

Using old test as study guides is common at every university in the nation. Sororities and Fraternities have test banks.

[@alentrav]

I love it how Steve will always say the really important things twice, just to drive the point home. All the important things. Twice. Just to really drive the point home. People might ask me, Robotrav, why do you always watch Steve Lehto videos? And I tell them. It's because he always says the important things twice. Twice. And that's important to me. Love your style Steve! Love your videos!!

[@machintelligence]

It is considered best lawyer practice to do it three times. Tell them what you are going to tell them. Tell them in excruciating detail. Tell them what you told them.

[@TW-ud6sb]

Very valuable comments on the different ways to be educated.

[@donnavandezande3905]

The day before an exam, one of my high school teachers would actually read the questions from the test and students could volunteer the answer. Even if the students who were not as bright could have done well if they were listening.

[@MK-lk7nc]

"How were they getting the tests / answers before hand" is a question that needs answered and resolved.

[@danzig-mfer]

this used to happen where I went to school. probably still does

[@algernoncalydon3430]

Students didn't even know they took the tests. I had the same thing happen when working for a school district, found out I had various trainings I never went to, and did years of maintenance I never did. I had to be wrong since there was proof, work order records and training records filled out by my supervisor.

[@corssecurity]

"There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." Mark Twain "Don't write anything you can phone. Don't phone anything you can talk. Don't talk anything you can whisper. Don't whisper anything you can smile. Don't smile anything you can nod. Don't nod anything you can wink." - Earl Long

[@davidh9638]

So why is Steve grinning like the Cheshire Cat in the thumbnail for this video?

[@Bob-Lob-Law]

Donald J Trust

[@matthewmccoy9680]

The IRS uses Benford‘s law to help them find people who are not honest on their taxes

[@katiekane5247]

I was the first female allowed in agriculture classes in a farm town in Illinois in 1972. The teacher knew nothing about horses & didn't care if I learned anything. He let me make & then take all my own tests. He wouldn't let me use power tools to make my class project either. Sexism has been around most of my life. I was also told by my college advisors that "nice girls don't go to Vet school". Things are some better now but not much.

[@josephpadula2283]

The majority of students in college Are now woman. 63 % of vets are woman . Just a little better? Sorry as a pioneer you were burned but if you have a Real sexism case today find a lawyer and get rich…

[@robertheinkel6225]

I was teaching in the AF, when women were first allowed in the aircraft maintenance field. We had zero issues with female students. Once I was back working on the aircraft, the women rebelled about some of our maintenance practices. One was they couldn’t carry a 60 pound toolbox. They were given smaller lighter boxes, so the men complained. We all got the smaller boxes. What I learned, was the women could not use brute force like the men, so they actually used the tools that made the job easier. So in effect, they created a positive change in the way things were done.

[@katiekane5247]

@@robertheinkel6225 though I was always small, I used body mechanics to accomplish tasks. I could bale hay all day & carry over half my weight. Older & much less strong today but still no pushover. We were the first fighters to have our rights, strengths & differences brought to bear. Thank you for your help. The division between the genders is largely an advertising tactic. Like the two party circus, division promotes the prevention of meaningful change.

[@PhunkyMunk]

Holy pearls of wisdom, Batman!! That little snippet in the outro of your video was more eye opening than all your videos combined! And that’s saying a lot considering how much I love your videos!

[@cybersal7]

Long ago when I was in high school a student worked out the bones in the hand and made an acronym out of it. We all had the same answers in the same order and the teacher nearly had a stroke he was so mad at us for cheating. Livid until we simply explained our formula. We had a great rapport with this teacher before and he laughed and forgave us. We did have to learn how to spell the bones names so we did learn something.

[@cohort6159]

Hamate, capitate, triquetral, scaphoid, trapezium, pisiform. Did I get them? (I'm seriously trying to do it off the top of my head and it's been 40 years).

[@TheGreatAtario]

I'm always a bit confused when it comes to laws about teaching and schools, like this and that celebrity admissions scandal from a while back - I never know what actual law is being violated, and what the name of the charge is, and such. I grew up assuming any regulations of schools were civil matters that hinge on accreditation.

[@MattAK]

Even professors can make mistakes Steve. I have two bachelor's degrees and in both programs I've had professors make mistakes on exams, so to automatically assume that your students were trying to trick that proctoring professor seems a bit disingenuous. But I also believe that tests are only good for seeing how well students can memorize things short term, not if they actually learned the concepts.

[@davidh9638]

If so, the tests are poorly designed. Not that you're wrong, though.

[@Vertraic]

Most of them are. A well designed test can check if the students actually understand the material by presenting them in different manners, and not just phrasing everything exactly the same as the homework.

[@jphogannet]

Yes, but it IS common for students to attempt to get a proctor to leave the room so shenanigans can ensue. How long was he away? How many answers were they able to look up or trade while he was gone? The reason for taking the test AS written is that. Afterwards, you can argue your case to the actual professor when there are not you and 30+ something other students being tested. I have caught mistakes on multiple choice and argued out the answer either on paper on the spot to include with my answer sheet OR later in the professors office in the case of a bubble answer sheet. It was so common, we had a standard bubble to hit E, which meant we challenged the question.

[@briangarrow448]

Parental support is the most important part of a child having success in any school system. If the parents don’t care, it’s a very steep uphill struggle for teachers to overcome that attitude.

[@DeAndreEllison]

There is so much I can say to this.. Statistics...I used to be a certified Lean 6Sigma Black Belt.. I understand why statistics are used, besides it's not what you interpret what the statistics say, it's how you use them. For example. If they were looking at those statistics, even without the tip, they might have concluded that the school was a outlier on the good side and said "Hmm that school is doing so well, let's look at what they are doing and try to replicate it". Which would have led them to the problem. Also, related to statistics I gained my 6Sigma certication without any sort of degree what so ever... learned to work experience and studying for certification ... .. to go along with the statistics of where I grew up, family make up, financial standiiing growing up.. I generally don't fall withing the statistical norms.. For the school standards, to me, it's no wonder that schools strive to get you a piece of paper instead of truly educate. The desired result of the educational process is often to get a job and there are jobs out there that will not even look at you without a specific piece of paper. To tie it together.. I had applied for a job which required distribution experience and lean 6Sigma certification. This is what I had spent my entire career working in including managing/IT/6Sigma. The recruiter called me to ask me some questions and setup and interview with the manager of the open position. ANot too long after hanging up the phone with the recruiter, the recruiter called me back and asked if I had forgotten to list my degree on my resume. I told them no. I don't have a degree. So, the recruiter told me they would not interview me for the position. We talked for a bit, and even though the recruiter agreed I had the experience, the certification and that their on VP said within a year or two, the jobs that people do don't really relate to the education people received because on how fast things advance. But, no paper.. no interview... The working world in my mind deincentivizes actual education and instead incentivizes just getting the piece of paper.. that doesn't even cover the other end where I knew people that finished a degree and were very competent in their ability, but could not get an entry level job in their field because they had no experience..

[@jerrymyrtle1944]

Something similar happened to a friend. He was so over qualified for the position it was not funny but the job required that piece of paper. He found out it could have been in tiddly winks and basket weaving (Liberal Arts) but it was required so no job.

[@coopyduck6901]

Happened here in Atlanta several years back. Big scandal

[@scott9676]

And a bunch of teachers went to prison

[@Bobs-Wrigles5555]

Ben flat out on top of the little blue van, behind Steve's left elbow

[@kencar8961]

Yup, I was a little slow this morning. Well done.

[@Bobs-Wrigles5555]

@@kencar8961 👍

[@terrancecoard388]

Good eye...missed it.

[@thisbushnell2012]

this was easily predicted when the whole proficiency exam program was first proposed, especially when districts' moneys were increased or decreased based on the overall results of those tests, How logical is it, if a district's schools' test results indicate a problem, to REDUCE the financial aid to that district, causing a CUT in teaching staff and materials, exacerbating the situation and guaranteeing further failure?

[@HighHolyOne]

Steve, when I was out of high school with two years of college behind me, I checked in to see what it would take to go to law school in Illinois. One of the things I found was that I could not become an attorney because I was gay, and gay people did not meet the moral qualifications to be practicing attorneys. I never completed my degree, but as chance would have it, I was working for attorneys, and took a paralegal course in which I scored the highest in the class. I went on to teach that class for several years, and later in the corporate world I was working with four attorneys doing the same job they were doing, with an attorney as my boss. Thank God they realized I had the snap to do it, because it was the best job I've had. I believe that way back when, had I been qualified to become an attorney, I would have also had the ambition to complete some kind of college degree, none of which really appealed to me, just so that I could have gone on to study the law. I did win one case for a teenager in small claims court, because Texas rules allowed a "next friend" to represent minors, idiots, and lunatics, and his parents acknowledged he was one of those.

[@OregonMike]

Oregon was close to dead last in hs graduation rates, so our governor and her party removed all competency tests required to graduate.

[@calebfielding6352]

Honestly I have a bigger issue with administrators not disciplining kids according to the student code of conduct book than teachers cheating. I used to drive a school bus and there were several children who were not functional because they faced no discipline. Heck it was a bad day when I heard on the radio that one of these kids who would never get disciplined murdered someone in a drug deal gone wrong. I also have a problem with kids not being able to read getting pushed through to the next grade, and eventually getting a diploma. Compared to that, this cheating scandal seems to be small potatoes.

[@kenhetherington756]

I graduated HS in 1976 from a small town in Oklahoma. 9th and 10th grade we had the EXACT same thing happen. We had a "study guide" that we went over during class the day before the tests.. The study guide was exactly the same as the test.---We also had a women we didn't know ( but the teachers obviously did) stand up during the tests and GAVE us the answers to about a 1/4 th of the test. ---over the years I have talked to a few people from other small town who had the same thing happen at their school.-------This nothing new!!!!

[@paulvanallen-lononca]

WOW, love that all your stories having you being always correct. Could you come up with one where you were wrong and learn something.... wondering if possible

[@kathleenmccrory9883]

You should do something about that uncontrollable whining. Lol.

[@garycurry4600]

Not only my state of residence, but my county of residence. I’m ashamed, but not surprised in the least.

[@danwarsaw1009]

Real teachers are born , not made

[@gelynch52phPH]

In 1972 I joined the Air Force as a mechanic even though I was a biology major in college. I was a hot rod enthusiast and wanted to learn more. Eventually I became an instructor. My first couple of classes I was learning page 2 of the lesson plan while teaching page 1. About 10 years later (after discharge in1976) I was an ASE Master Heavy Truck Technician and running a truck and bus repair business. In the interim I got a BA in English and learned things all over the world. Often I have offered to debate supposedly "educated" people on any subject in which they did not hold a PhD. Yep, education is not all in the classroom and paid for in cash.

[@whyqu.i.t]

What was the criminal charge? And what are the consequences?

[@davidbenner2289]

I was in a college class years ago, maybe 40 or more, where the instructor was writing the test questions answers on the board, then erasing them.

[@Saiyanjohn415]

This has been going on in New York for years. Is it amazing really that it's going on in one school in Florida?

[@TonyHammitt]

I know of a university where cheating was extremely common, people would routinely pay for the answers to their homework via an online service that put up posters on the walls of the class buildings. The teachers seemed to have been in on it, requiring nothing but the numerical answers to the questions to be entered online, and not requiring the students to show any work. I don't see why anyone would value a degree earned in that way, but when the students victimized by this hit the workforce, they'll soon be found to be unable to do the work and get fired. What a thing to pay for...

[@laurie113]

Hey Steve, Love your ookpik! ❤️🇨🇦 It’s no wonder students don’t Understand Right from Wrong!

[@mjac8373]

In a related situation, if one of your law students recorded your lectures, transcribed them, and then gave them away for free, would that be illegal or a copyright violation? The question is once something is spoken publicly does it belong to the speaker no matter who recorded it? Even if no money is involved,, just free distrubution as a service to interested parties? Love your show Steve, you're a great teacher and a really funny guy too!

[@johncox2865]

15:37 Well said, buddy. Those three ‘teachers’ should never set foot in a classroom again. They are teaching the wrong damned things.

[@RiverCat999]

Thanks for pointing out that learning can take many forms. I loved university; but, it's not the only way to learn. Thanks for the video.

[@alirE2904]

it is very strange to me that kids at two advance schools in orange county dont have books and only study from syllabus and they were not able to answer questions in other areas.

[@grim1427]

Thanks Steve!

[@Dr_Evil_Genius]

They dangled financial motivation to cheat in front of professionals who are notoriously underpaid. Now, the teacher shortage is exacerbated by 3 more vacancies.

[@Time-Traveller-2025]

The FAA use to publish all the questions that could be on the written exams… and every flight school did exactly what you described here. I studied and memorized every question and completed my test in about 10 min. The proctor couldn’t believe I did the test so fast… and got a 93%.

[@dnaking]

How is it possible that any student failed under these circumstances?

[@karlrovey]

Some students will fail these tests intentionally because they usually don't count toward their grades, but can determine whether or not the school gets more funding or loses funding and whether or not the teacher gets fired or stays another year. If the students didn't like the teacher or the administration, it's a chance to hurt them without consequences.

[@gobdeep]

You closing comments were well said, Mr. Lehto.

[@jerryneff6018]

Steve, I was a Food inspector in the Army. Quarterly, I would receive congratulations for successful rifle qualifying. However, I never had access to a rifle or went to a range.

[@motorcycleguy73]

At the school I worked at they told all of us teachers to make sure all our students passed it's a common thing. Schools get more funding when students do better we are told to make sure our students do better

[@niveknospmoht8743]

I guess that would explain why students coming out of high school don't know anything. I had an ROP high school student in my shop for the semester who couldn't tell me how many quarts in a gallon. He had to look it up on his phone

[@steveconsultant4523]

Errors in tests happen in courses in advanced physics and math, particularly multiple choice. It does not happen a lot, but it happens. Every time it happened in the school I graduated from, the professors handled it the same way: they stood up in front of the class, explained the problem and what happened. Then removed the question from the exam. Typically the students who found the problem got an automatic A in the exam.

[@famousamoso7]

I remember my Freshman year of college (business school) I was in a lecture class taking a final exam. There were about 300 students in this lecture hall. There was also a handful of TA's proctoring the exam with the professor. Halfway through the exam from the back of the lecture hall we here a TA's shout CHEATING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!!!!! of course everyone's head snapped around to see this TA ripping up another students test and escorting them out of the hall. It was a safe bet that nobody else attempted to cheat any of this professors exams.

[@Maximara]

Most of the Universities I went to had open book/notes test. They didn't expect you to actually memorize the stuff as odds were it would likely be obsolete by the time you got your degree.

[@JaykeBlayde]

I don't understand how this is like a felony or offense that warrants arrests being made.

[@javaskull88]

I wish more people would take statistics classes. It would help them better understand medical research, insurance underwriting, and relative risk analysis in order to make better decisions with their finances, health, and personal safety.

[@fangnight2248]

I'm surprised this happened in my county within the state. Such a sad thing tbh. Wonder why they did all this...

[@robertadams8192]

Two things. 1 - I'm not sure whether I read this or it was on a KZbin video: about multiple choice tests. Step1 - quickly go through and answer all the ones you know. Step2 - Go through all the questions you didn't answer that are directly after the ones you have all ready answered. Odds are that they will not match the previous answer (if answer to question 1 was "a", the answer to question 2 is probably not "a", so you have eliminated one probably incorrect answer for those questions). Next, (I believe) answer "b" for all the remaining questions unless the previous question was answered as "b", than select "c". "d" is rarely the correct reply. You will probably pass ... but studying is a better idea. 2 - Regarding people who hate statistics. There is nothing wrong with statistics although they can be be misused. Before dismissing (or accepting) statistics you just need to do is find out what information was gathered. And that can be daunting. If Hospital A had 10 patients die and Hospital B had 100 patients die, does that mean Hospital B is worse then A? Depends. Is B 10 times bigger than A? Is B a Hospice care hospital? BTW, Point 1 is based on statistics.

[@Luc_Skywalker]

I went to DeVry in Toronto, that is exactly what they where doing, there was so many foreigners that got in do to Government grants, they had trouble speaking English let alone comprend the courses material of Business, computer programming, robotic and on top of all that, they had a statis quote that they had to keep, out of all the student, 90% had to pass. So, they provide the answers to the test that we were going to have the following day. This was at least 30 yrs ago, I was part of a class action sue, but DeVry keep finding a way to postpone the court day. We were over 500 student part of this class action sue, we went through 3 lawyers until we couldn't get a lawyer to represent us. They keep telling us, that they(lawyer) couldn't see the end of the tunnel. DeVry was scamming our government grants and given student diplomas that was worth nothing in the working world. No business was accepting DeVry diplomas, hence the class action sue. I was in computer programming, and I was good at it too. Most of everyone that was part of the class action sue, had already graduate and that is when they notice that DeVry diplomas was worth nothing, as for a lot of us that was not finish and try to get our student loan transferred to a real respected collage, DeVry advise the government of student loan that we have quite school and will be no longer attending, and the bank want to get payments going. I was never able to go back to school ever again. I have no idea what DeVry is doing today, but back then, we had a lot of trouble getting any people in authority to take us seriously. DeVry had at that time, two Institute in Canada (Calgary and Toronto) and 7 Institute in the United state, DeVry is a US Institution school.

[@fqopi]

thanks prof 😀 so when are you running to be a governor? 😎

[@anonymous-eg4cq]

Love the shirt. I delivered to the fireflies team when they were in Savannah, GA and went by the name Savannah Sandgnats.

[@SuperS05]

"study guides" that have some exact questions and answers, with the rest near matches is very common here in professional certifications. People still manage to fail.... 🤦

[@karlrovey]

My macroeconomics Gen Ed class was one where you basically had to try to fail if you were going to fail. Some people still failed.

[@SuperS05]

@@karlrovey except passing macroeconomics gen Ed doesn't permit you to work with dangerous tools and equipment, very potentially putting other lives at risk other than the cheater. 😂

[@karlrovey]

@@SuperS05 Still, it's a situation where you have to try to fail. Your example seems like a "try to fail" via apathy situation.

[@AmbrousAerilus]

reverse engineering the question bank and selling it is common practice on pretty much any certification.

[@adriandenson2014]

I teach in Pasco Fl ! Granted - I have chosen a charter school that teaches character and expects it from the staff at all times. I have always taught charter ( another conversation for another day … ) . I live within minutes of Hudson high- this is nuts !

[@SiliconSlyWolf]

I worked at a college, and if you don't hit that passage rate on the exit exams, the college would lose certain funding if not enough students passed. It was expected 90% of students pass the college exit exam.

[@g0fvt]

I have historically seen the same here in the UK, a practice that does everyone involved a disservice. On the subject of the multiple choice exams, I have seen many people make the mistake of trying to impress the examiner by going for an "offbeat" answer. A very misguided strategy, particularly as the answers are classified as right or wrong.

[@byronwatkins2565]

Education is indeed very valuable -- and has little semblance to what goes on in public schools.

[@smarthome2660]

I went to a high school in Michigan back in the 70's and this school was trying to ge accredited. At that time I had no idea what that entailed. I was passed to the next grade every year and later found out that they passed me by breaking the law. They did not teach me algebra nor did they teach me Government. I don't know what happen to them if anything but I did take those two courses in college even though my curriculum did not require me to take Government.

[@Dlstufguy2]

If law students convinced the proctor to question the answers that sounds like grounds for bonus points

[@williammark4563]

I'm in at university now even though I'm 60 and I have found wrong answers on many tests. I will go and question them because teachers are not perfect. I am not a new student, I have over 160 credit hours and have had to correct more than 5 tests. The reason I bring this up is that 1 bad answer could be the difference from passing to failing.

[@dougvanausdal3162]

Steve thank you for pointing out that not all learn from books , life is a great teacher at times , I really appreciate the video you put out. I find then to be very informative about a lot of different things, thanks Have a great day

[@theprodigalstranger5259]

Ben lounging on the roof of the van today. Cheaters never teach and teachers never cheat? Proctor!? I barely know her!!

[@jonathanbarstow7262]

Back in the 1960s and 70s, my dad taught at Michigan Tech. He gave lots of multiple choice and true/false exams. He would get a statistical analysis after the exam. If there was a question that the top scoring students were uniformly getting wrong, he would eliminate that question from the scoring, believing that it was somehow misleading.

[@timkaldahl]

Education is the only sport where you get penalized for making a mistake in practice instead of receiving more coaching. Sadly, in the US, school and education overlap rarely.

[@annettesurfer]

Years ago North Elementary had a high greatschools score but dropped like a rock the moment the superintendent retired. I’m not sure why the super chose to have his office in that particular school but I couldn't help but note the abrupt drop in scores and the only change was his retirement. I vividly recall him bragging that he could sell ice to an eskimo, a statement I still find odd today.

[@davem5333]

Part of the problem is that no one wants to admit that certain groups of people are just uneducatable.

[@badsamaritan8223]

I knew a guy a while back, who went to school in CA, and they have some annual test, that the state does, to determine how funds are distributed, and it was designed around the rate of improvement. So his school did so well consistently, that they were losing funding, because they weren't improving. So the school had devised a plan, for the students to perform poorly on certain years, and then do better other years, to keep their funding. I don't know how true this was.

[@Cohen.the.Worrier]

It's always the same problem: no ethics.