Tears of the Kingdom is a complicated sequel

Alternate title: “How not to make a sequel to Breath Of The Wild”
⚠️ MINOR MID-GAME NARRATIVE SPOILERS ⚠️
Josh and Sam both think Tears of the Kingdom is a janky sequel. Josh thinks that's fascinating and expected. Sam thinks that was preventable. FIGHT!
CLICK HERE FOR PART 2
"We must talk about the green gloop:" • We must talk about the...
Thanks ‪@razbuten‬ for the access to his TOTK footage - this video would've been a nightmare to put together without it :')
Check out Josh's channel! We both worked super hard on these videos; if you like the narrative voice of this project, you'll like his work! / @thenukes
#breathofthewild #tearsofthekingdom #totk
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Thank you to James DeLisio and Chipmunkuchan for helping us edit this guy! Check out their work! James creates film-focused video essays and personal films, Chipmunkuchan creates games-focused video essays (and they are QUITE snazzy I must say).
jamesdelisio.com/
/ delisioso15
/ @jamesdelisio
/ chanchipmunku
/ chipmunkuchan
Thank you Angela for providing the excellent artwork! :D
an....
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[@Afterthoughts]

Alright "FOUR HOURS" crowd. Click here. We (me & Josh & you & Nintendo & the Pope) know it's been more than four hours. We know it's been more than "since last week." We hoped everyone would understand we were being tongue in cheek. I'm bummed, cuz one of the lines I considered adding was a very strong caveat to this effect, but I thought it'd be unnecessary, since the line is "at that point (the opening cinematic), as far as we know, it has been four hours." I understand that the context drift was too far for that bit - (the opening cinematic) - to be properly inferred. That's my bad as a scriptwriter. But also, let's talk about that! Because it's still a really interesting choice, right? Isn't it interesting that in a self-directed game with an overarching narrative - a sequel, nonetheless - all evidence of the timeline is (1) presented after the narrative opening and after the tutorial, aka 5+ hours into the experience, and (2) the player must encounter specific NPCs to access that information? With the main character models looking so similar, the opening narrative beats playing out the way they do, and the timeline information being shunted out into scattered NPC dialogue, I maintain that... this is an interesting thing to talk about! Especially when the best we can do is "most people agree that it has been 5-6 years since BOTW," I do wonder why such important information for framing the intermediary journey of our leads & our world is left as an exercise to the reader!

[@FieryVeiws]

yeah, because my main reason for believing it takes place years afterward is that hudson's company is HUGE AND he has a daughter

[@Max.Paprika]

It might be the sleep deprivation, but seeing this comment mention the four hours crowd and noticing that it was posted 4 hours ago sent my brain into a fog for a good couple moments.

[@matt4193]

Its again a matter of "we kinda want to make it a sequel but not too sequel-y so new players who didnt play BOTW can still enjoy the narrative". I can understand players hopping onto the new hot thing just because its new, but a direct sequel? The one we didnt have a NAME, but "SEQUEL TO BOTW" for the longest time? Afaik the consensus is that TOTK story takes place around 5 years or so after the canonical ending of BOTW (Link rescues Zelda, spirit pig begone, also the four divine beasts were saved before that so they could aid in battle). THEN the major stuff they dont explain is where all the Sheika stuff went? My believe is that they destroyed just because look what a fake Ganon did with it. Not risking total annihilation again. A LOT of NPCs wont reckognize Link straight away, and that bothers me so much. Link proving himself yet again when in places like Hateno the kids know him as "Zelda's Bodyguard" AND THAT THEY SHARE LINK'S HOUSE. The details just keep on making nonsense of both stories. I loved playing thru TOTK. I loved the new mechanics, a couple of fights, puzzles. But at some point the magic faded a little. I started to think "man, we had to wait six years to do similar stuff again".

[@Linventor]

failed to realize that the internet _always takes_ opportunities to be pedantic. a classic blunder. good video.

[@kikosawa]

That line was unnecessarily misleading. I was so ready to type something like "do your research, dummies" in the comments, that's dangerous territory

[@nerdwiththehat]

Going to die on the hill I was desperately trying to predict online in the months before TotK: they should have let us play as Zelda, especially with the introduction of the time travel narrative. Splitting the actual story between our two favourite pointy-eared gremlins, allowing the progression to switch off between their story beats, instead of the game's actual poor handling of the story: out-of-order cutscenes.

[@Afterthoughts]

I wonder if this will EVER happen. Has there been a game (other than smash bros and, what, maybe Hyrule Warriors?) where you've been able to play as Zelda? Umm... I didn't play Spirit Tracks lmao is that the one where she's a suit of armor or something

[@Vyslante]

@@Afterthoughts There's one of the dreaded CDI games, but yes; no mainline game let us do it and it's time for that to change!

[@diegooazarado3411]

@@Afterthoughts zelda is more of a special item then a playable characther

[@nerdwiththehat]

@@Afterthoughts I'm back four months later to reply with HEY DID YOU SEE THE DIRECT 🤣

[@Afterthoughts]

@@nerdwiththehat LOL the answer is always no! Is this about New Zelda Thing People Have Been Tweeting About?

[@Alan-TFT]

A video essay framed like a conversation was really entertaining

[@Afterthoughts]

I'm so glad!!!! We had so much fun making it! :D

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

I found it a bit distracting unfortunately. Kind of felt like a completely scripted podcast but with none of the spontaneity of a real conversation but also less focus than a traditional video essay

[@Your_Native_Mothman]

You would really like the Burback channel! Its a channel between two brothers who have almost the exact same format as this

[@Afterthoughts]

This is the last reupload, this is the real one xD if you commented on a previous version, know that I saw it and read it and appreciated it! :) ❤

[@Fripplingakarhano]

Okay blud

[@Afterthoughts]

😭

[@Hdjhsjdhhshu]

I appologise if i am being annoying but you said that this is a reupload why did it get taken down in the first place

[@Afterthoughts]

@@Hdjhsjdhhshu That's not annoying! haha. I took it down because I needed to fix the end screen.

[@Hdjhsjdhhshu]

​@@Afterthoughtsgot it

[@smorpd]

8:40 minor nitpick- it's heavily implied in several areas in the game that several years have passed between the death of Calamity Ganon (and sealing of Dark Beast Ganon) in BOTW, and the opening cutscene of TOTK (or when link wakes up afterwards, also mentioned below). Mild spoilers for quests in TOTK & changes between games (towns, people, etc) below Examples include: - The house that link can buy in BOTW is hinted to be Zelda's home in TOTK. The first line in the upstairs diary says: "After the Calamity, I asked myself how to rebuild, and set out across Hyrule in search of an answer." ... "As part of Hyrule's reconstruction, we've built a school in Hateno Village" in four hours? bolson really pushin it into overdrive here - Tulin. In BOTW, he was a chick/hatchling but in TOTK he is an adolescent. I dunno aboutchu but I don't think Rito evolve like pokemon overnight - Mattison (Hudson and Rhondson's daughter), and Riju. im copypasting a reddit comment here: "The Gerudo have a law that says they can't associate with men until they come of age, you see. I mean, it's fine when they're young, but when they start to become more... aware of the world around them... someone comes from Gerudo Town to pick them up." - Hudson (Tears of the Kingdom). Since Mattison doesn't exist in BOTW, she must have been born in-between games. Since she goes to Gerudo Village when finishing the "Mattison's Independence" side adventure (or quest idk), this implies that she is NOW of-age and ready to start life in Gerudo town. It is also stated that Riju is 12 in BOTW, but in TOTK she physically looks different, the character model is noticeably taller. - There are dozens of wooden supply outposts scattered all over Hyrule, though that could have been finished within a few days. - Several buildings around Hyrule have been renovated or created; the new school in Hateno, Tarrey Town houses, etc - also literally every guardian and piece of Ancient Tech everywhere has been removed. I don't remember if it's ever mentioned ingame, but I find it a bit odd that even the Shrine Of Resurrection on the Great Plateau has NOTHING in it. The walls, floor, ceiling, and everything else inside is just GONE. I know the "bed" room can move underground as seen in BOTW's DLC, but the room is still there in TOTK, so idk wtf happened in the downtime between games but it sure as hell doesn't feel like 4 hours. also the divine beasts are just GONE (the Shrines and Towers could have just gone back underground again, also both tech labs in Akkala and Hateno still have some ancient tech, the hateno lab having the only guardian model in hyrule on top of it) ---------- I can see a counterargument like: "Link was supposedly knocked out for several hours after losing his arm, and then stuck on the Great Sky Island for days afterwards, maybe those changes happened in that time?" Purah says "Where have you been?!?" to Link after he appears at Lookout Landing. Totally see where you're coming from if you agree with that statement, I just personally believe at least a few months have passed since BOTW and the Upheaval. It's never explicitly stated in-game, or any unit of time for that matter, only implied. Anyway, that part of the video didn't feel right to gloss over in such a passionate and well-thought out review. I love the points mentioned in the video btw :) it's very well put together, and structured, the phrasing is great and the pacing is engaging ^^ I just wanted to point out a potentially false statement in an otherwise great review/discussion. Apologies if my comment comes off as rude or disrespectful. Would love to hear other people's opinions on this!

[@TheNukes]

I think you’re right! We talked about this in the Premiere, I think once you do all the sleuthing 6-7 years feels about right. But you can’t do that until you’re well into the game-when that intro cutscene starts, there’s not really any indication how long it’s been, and that’s where a lot of the narrative jank lives (in my opinion).

[@smorpd]

@@TheNukes Ah I see, that's totally fair. I can see now that what you two were going for in the video was more of a "player's impression" interpretation of the story. You're right, things can be laid out and described somewhere deep in the narrative, but if it requires more digging or external discussion, then it gets flimsy. Totally agree on the narrative jank too lmao, thanks for the reply!

[@prinr2003]

It does seem that they wanted to make a sequel, but the stipulation that it also had to appeal to new players as a standalone game really broke the immersion for me. I really enjoyed playing and discovering new things, but there would be dialogue or circumstances where they seemed to contradict progression from the last game. There were hints of progression, but also many NPCs that should really remember you who treat you like a new face. It would have been great to at least see Mass Effect-esque circumstantial lines only present if you had a BotW save on the console.

[@joecastle288]

THIS. The technology already existed in the game to change Totk based on the existence of a Botw save file on the same console, yet the only aspect of the game and narrative they decided to port over from Botw were the HORSES YOU CAUGHT??? HUH???

[@willytor7899]

theres something else that carries over from botw if you have a save file on the switch you have the portrait of the champions in link's (old) house if you completed the botw dlc

[@prinr2003]

@@willytor7899 True, that was a nice touch. Still mad Zelda took over my house though 😂

[@prinr2003]

@@joecastle288 I did appreciate my horses carrying over, that was an unexpected delight. It just feels like a lot of these decisions were made in silos among the team, so there’s cool elements like that but holes in other areas like half of Hateno village forgetting Link. Like, not to flex guys but I’m the Hero of the Wild - you may have heard of my work like ENDING THE CALAMITY and freeing the princess who you all remember much better than me now :

[@Tomatech]

I'm a "new" zelda fan (meaning that I've only played through the "wild" duology), and the idea of splitting the timeline at BOTW isn't one I'm fond of, especially since one of the goals of that game was to re-unify the timelines (or perhaps start a new one from scratch, since the "first king of hyrule" is certainly not the first king of hyrule) Ideally, i would've liked for all of hyrules residents that existed in BOTW to remember link in TOTK, and the new tasks for the player could come from putting those NPCs in new pickles that require links assistance. Perhaps more of the zonai race could have come with the sky islands, and link would need to prove himself to this ancient society. The ring ruins scenario was a very ham-fisted way of "gently" discouraging the player from finding the 5th sage early, but it could've been done with a lot less friction. Perhaps the survey team have their hands full with the new ruins and dont have the resources to spare to search the old ones, but would be available after the hyrule castle miniboss Finally, i think one of the biggest things that could've make this game stand out from its predecessor would've been to have zelda be more involved with current events, rather than being relegated yet again to another 15 memory cutscenes, most of which can be obtained out of order for some unfathomable reason. I know keeping zelda in the present would require scrapping most of the past story, but if it means the 4 regions don't end with the sages yapping about the "demon king?" "Secret stones?" "Imprisoning war???" then thats fine by me.

[@Zeldrake]

oh god the sage cutscenes explaining the demon king like it's the first time (it is actually your fourth time) is one of my huge nitpicks about this game - it's like, was there SERIOUSLY no better way to do this, even drip-feeding us items of information from each one would have been better (plus we already know even before any dungeons if you pay attention)

[@DaNintendude]

Yeah, I agree about the splitting timeline part. I think the fallen timeline itself was a big mistake, and I'm glad that the series doesn't really pay attention to the timeline much anymore. Placing BOTW in the distant future was a great idea and it lets them do what they want without having to worry about breaking canon too hard. Adding more timeline splits just makes things confusing and harder to get invested in (personally). I think utilizing the same Hyrule was a good idea, but it certainly could've been done a lot better in a lot of ways.

[@HizzyHay]

What is this a crossover episode! Great work, really impressed how well ya'll were able to gel to separate arguments to make something that still has a rhythm to it. Looking forward to Part 2!

[@Afterthoughts]

Thanks Hay!!! :D Me tooooooo (and then it'll be a triple crossover episode ahh)

[@shoogles_]

I really dislike what they did with the story. There was no reason to bring Ganondorf back at all; he doesn't present any new ideas or new contexts for the mechanics that I feel a new villain may have. I think the proof's in the pudding: we're still talking about Breath of the Wild years after release, but the conversation around this one seemed to die down after only a couple of months, if that.

[@PauLtus_B]

I'm generally really good at conveniently "decanonising" anything if it helps with my enjoyment of the story and I ended up really enjoying the story and seeing how the world had changed. Yet it was just bizarre how little of the conflict of the last game had stuck around. No sheikah technology, no destroyed guardians, no leftover shrines, no throwaway lines about it either. Overall the story felt a bit like "Botw: extreme edition" and I really liked it as such. Not being able to go to that one area in kakariko was just stupid though. No matter how good a story explanation they'd get for it, it's just annoying to have this one part in the whole map so arbitrarily blocked off.

[@ThrowingCrunchy]

I want an 8 hr back and forth loop of this video and its companion about the green gloop. I would study to it, sleep to it, and game to it. I'll walk it and feed and take it with me everywhere. It'd be my new best friend!

[@Afterthoughts]

HAHAHA you're never going to want to hear someone say the words "Ring Ruins" or "Popcorn" ever again

[@ThysiosX]

Totk couldn't have been 'more BotW' if it tried. God I hope they do something new next time.

[@Afterthoughts]

I guess we'll see! :0 I feel like there's nooooo wayyyy they'll do a third game in this vein but... I mean, I'm wrong 90% of the time so who knows

[@ThysiosX]

@@Afterthoughts I wouldn't mind it too much, if at the very least it were a new world. This one felt way too similar to botw to be interesting to explore a 2nd time. I do like the open world part, but not a fan of the shrines or lack of any meaningfull progression. I'd like to see an open world thats opened up in sections, instead of all at once. So you need to beat a boss for each zone before you progress to the next zone. That way you could give the player new items after each boss, instead of having to make the entire game do-able from the get go.

[@RD12435]

i think there are parts of the game that actually make really good use of being the same world and characters, in particular the rito and zora areas. it gives so much texture to the world to feel like you're visiting an old friend who's having problems, and they're happy to see you but that doesnt automatically solve things. but there are other areas, in particular the goron & gerudo ones like you mentioned, that felt like they really dropped the ball on that. i feel like they could actually have done something interesting by leaning harder into making it a direct sequel. I'm curious what rito village and zora's domain felt like to people who never played botw, because they did lean on the last game's story without a ton of recap of it

[@DanielSantosAnalysis]

Despite being scripted, this video feels like you two just hopped in a call and just started going ham, which gave the video a cool vibe! Really dug it, good job y'all.

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

I am only 46 seconds in but the intro the tears was incredible. It gave me chills listening to the music get louder as I walked deeper into the depths. The shock of how ganon he made us look like a child destroying the sacred master sword no problem. Then to awake in another brand new area and learn the dive mechanic. The intro gave me Majoras mask vibes.

[@Afterthoughts]

See and I'll always say, I vastly prefer to like than dislike something, and am very glad the intro worked for you! I'm glad so many people had phenomenal experiences with this game!

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

@@Afterthoughtsyea I thought instead of whining or being negative about your opinion I’d just share how it made me feel lol. Awesome videos btw ✌🏽

[@matt4193]

17:14 YOU KNOW WHAT??? maybe powering up the broken master sword with a stupid sidequest just to use it once and prove some dumb NPC that yeah, you ACTUALLY ARE Link, the one who saved everyones' butt is a nice concept. Also it gives the useless toothpick a reason to stay in your inventory.

[@OctagonalSquare]

8:40 fun fact, it has been at least 7 years by the time Link wakes up. Hudson’s daughter was not born in BOTW but is 7 in TOTK. So it can’t be less than that. Obviously we don’t know that until later, and it also isn’t clear how long is between the Upheaval and Link waking up on GSI

[@OctagonalSquare]

“You’re a cartoon baby and someone stole the ground” is the funniest description of Wind Waker I have ever heard

[@Skyehoppers]

Love this format, and interesting perspective! I have a ton of criticisms of totk as well, but uhh this continues the trend of everyone thinking something different about this game cause I think I disagree with most of your points... I think the intro is sick! A bit slow, but it's distinctively moody and builds up Ganondorf as a much more threatening presence than he actually turns out to be. Losing your hearts was inevitable and this isnt the *worst* way to do it. And I think once you get exploring it feels very much like several years have passed, not four hours. Theres a new town. Zelda started a school from scratch and got a new haircut lol I also think the timeline was fundamentally flawed and isnt a good solution here. You did need the literal same Link here, otherwise (ironically) it wouldve felt more samey imo. And if the villagers revered Link more that would have made my own problems with the game even worse haha, I thought that was one of the few places they struck a nice balance. Personally I dont think theres anything wrong with totk conceptually. Its all in the execution. It fails as a sequel because the writers are clearly terrified of saying anything. There are a million ways they couldve pulled off this style, but they all would require themes, character growth, and narratively challenging the player in at least some way. Instead they wrote a story to be as inoffensive as possible and thus deeply uninteresting. What a shame!

[@sparky6757]

Not once did I think that Link being mortally wounded and losing everything was weird or silly I'm here for action and exploration, if the story is so much as comprehensible that's all Zelda needs. Obviously a better story means a better game, but a mediocre story will absolutely suffice for a game that's focused on gameplay

[@sther1349]

I loved the intro

[@Afterthoughts]

:D

[@Natoursofcourse]

More like this please. This video hits different in a good way, makes me feel like im watching an informative doc.

[@Frostflame]

I think exploring the theme of fame and reputation for saving the world would have been really cool tbh and I’m sad we didn’t get to see that in possibly the largest scale opportunity we’re gonna get AND ALSO there’s a VERY clear way to make it so we’re not playing as the same Link!!! Let’s play as Zelda!!!! Let’s finally do it please for the love of God I would like to play as Zelda!!!

[@kendragaylord]

i was so sad when the ac unit fell... i mean the princess.... i mean.. both?

[@GwydionAE]

Don't necessarily agree with the suggested fix, but definitely agree that there are major problems with how the story/Link was treated in TotK. I feel like some of it could have been easily fixed, to the point where it feels really weird that it wasn't (like people who really should recognize Link doing so, and dialogue updating once Link knows certain key plot information instead of having to pretend like he didn't just watch a bunch of Zelda's memories...).

[@Jlerpy]

Where do i download Pointy-Eared Blonde Boinking Simulator?

[@TheNukes]

these are the questions that haunt us still

[@coynelaundry]

!RemindMe

[@Kowzorz]

I love this conversational style. It works really well. I'm worried that this is the Ubisoftification of the zelda franchise. Same game, new texture. Release after release. But I believe I heard that nintendo was not doing "this link" or world or something again? So perhaps there's hope.

[@bigpunk157]

We know it's supposed to not be the BOTW world, or this Link, but we also know that it is still supposed to be Open World (probably again like Ubisoft games). We know this because Aonuma said this in an IGN Interview: "It's interesting when I hear people say [they prefer the old entries] because I am wondering, 'Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?' But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect," Aonuma says.

[@Vyslante]

Thank you. Being BOTW 2 is TOTK's greatest weakness.

[@cyberrb25]

I do have to say, the Timeline is something I'm sure they regret. Zelda is not a novel. Zelda is a Legend. It's way more near the Legend of King Arthur than it is to God of War. -SPOILERS BEWARE (Skyward Sword)- Every game is not another Link in another universe, but another way to tell the basic story of Link, Zelda and Ganon/Demise. Which, while it's not exactly what the latter said at the end of Skyward Sword, it is still in tune with the Curse they impose onto Link and Zelda.

[@Sebboebbo]

Da king and queen is back baby they neva miss

[@lklira]

You just have to play the game and pay attention to see that a few years have passed between the games, hard to enjoy the jokes and the complaints about some fact you guys simply assumed about the game, TOTK has its flaws but this just feels like a cinemasins approach 😐

[@Afterthoughts]

All of the hints about time passage are in moments with specific NPCs that players will encounter at different times, so significant numbers of players will go 10+ hours before encountering any evidence of the timeline. A player being a little narratively confused for that amount of time was preventable by including some of that timeline evidence in the opening cinematic or the tutorial zone. I don't think that's arguable :)

[@lukedavies3654]

This was really entertaining, I have a lot of mixed feelings on tears so it’s really good to hear everyone’s surrounding opinions

[@kingoftherevolution4855]

yes yes yes, all that and all, but just kind of... enjoyed? going and talking to all the NPCs I met in the last game, and them knowing me and directly talking about I and they did in the last game? Like, I was *excited* to make it to tarrey town just to see what was happening there nowadays. to me, the lore of zelda doesn't make sense, and doesn't have to make sense, so ganon being under the castle and rhoam popping up and I guess the guardian stuff all being gone, none of it bothers or distracts me at all. I guess I agree that narratively this game *could* have been another distant future with a new set of (the same) characters, but I would rather go talk to riju ~~or kass~~ than change that framing.

[@Lalovoe]

Maybe its good that we dont have an odyssey 2... But come on its too bad that they only made "half" a new mainline game!

[@TheBakedBagel]

Thanks for another fantastic video!!!

[@sydneygorelick7484]

Excuse us, where is that explanation?? I wanna hear you two nerds (affectionate) talk more!!

[@TheNukes]

Two weeks, give or take!

[@lewis1423]

i feel this game is so conflicting, and beyond the fact the the crafting is something you either loved or hated. i understand a intense physics and building system was only possible beacuse it was built on the back of botw, but it feels out of place in the game like its a system placed in a game not designed for it :p. i think one more year to really flush out more locations dedicated to fusing would have done wonders to make them feel more distinct and it feel a little more cohesive.

[@timelesscatastrophe]

I think the game could’ve been more interesting if you played as Zelda and Gannon WASNT a bad guy, y’know like how everybody was theorizing Gannon was gonna be a good guy?

[@indrasetia189]

how to make TotK good as sequel when you already did hundred hours in BotW is to pretend that BotW is never happen. you are link. the best warrior in hyrule that guarding princess zelda. pretend that you dont know anything. BotW is different game. and this is new game. than whoailaaaa. . . . TotK is better now. is it sequel? yes. but different? yes. then what is this? you are legendary warrior in this world. but, BotW never happen. done! enjoy TotK. TotK is just BotW sequel that BotW never happen. like alternate timeline of BotW.

[@dynawesome]

I like a lot about this video but the gap between the games narratively is far more than 4 hours, it’s more like 4-6 years. There’s a pretty sizable time skip and it’s visible in how pretty much every populated area has changed.

[@Afterthoughts]

The line in the video: "Four hours! At that point (aka the beginning of the game), as far as we know, it has been four hours." In terms of player perception in the narrative opening, those signifiers don't exist.

[@dynawesome]

@@Afterthoughts yeah true, at the start of the game it feels like not much time has passed other than Zelda cutting her hair. I think part of it is adding to the effect of having been gone for a while and the world feeling different once Link returns from the Great Sky Island. Still, the time skip is definitely real and definitely helps the narrative overall, even if it’s not fully felt in the tutorial. I knew there was a time skip going in, maybe if I didn’t the tutorial section would have felt more frustrating.

[@dynawesome]

@@Afterthoughts also please know that I do love your videos! They have an awesome style

[@Kairyu_Gen1]

I’d rather just replay botw

[@TheJadedJames]

Yeah, so I was one of those people who was totally down to play Breath of the Wild 2. So I don’t identify with the complex they had with this game’s structure at all. I enjoyed revisiting this world & didn’t care that it had to do basic video game stuff like resetting your abilities.

[@kikikrazed]

me every time i see the stamina wheel in the gameplay clips: omg it's an afterthoughts reference

[@saucedlx]

Overall I liked the game a lot but one of my main disappointments is that the sky and underground ended up feeling more like their own extended minigames instead of like actual places. Especially the sky islands, seeing the tutorial one positioned as a Great-Plateau-like made me hyped for what the rest of them could be, only for that to be by far the most interesting one. Also another big example of BotW's events being kinda ignored is how all the old shrines vanish. Like of course they wouldn't be accessible and functional anymore, but there isn't even some sorta remnant that shows they were once there. No shallow hole in the ground or rubble or anything like that. It's just like the environment smoothed itself over as if there had never been anything there. Also also damn I was hoping for it to kinda be like Spirit Tracks and let Zelda have more of an active role in the plot. Instead of just getting vanished away throughout the whole story. Game was a lot of fun mechanically but storywise it was even harder for me to get invested in than BOTW was.

[@adiraslattery614]

honestly i like how link is both the legendary hero and a dingus. hes a weird lil dude and nobody expects that this short guy is actually the same hero they've heard of

[@ninjaeddy1717]

I liked this too. The fact that it was funny every time someone forgot who link was really made it work, especially all the Gerudo.

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha I've heard some takes online that amp up Link's *dingus* status and that's definitely my favorite headcanon for the game :P

[@Linventor]

one of my absolute favorite headcanons of Link is the version of him from the videos by one Kleric on youtube. In particular, him in the *10 Ways Link Can Make It Up To That Divine Beast On His Own* video is just, so good.

[@MaxG628]

The game itself has this split vibe. Yes I know the Rito are starving but have you seen a rocket powered floating laser cannon?

[@howiefang7825]

One thing I dislike about tears of the kingdom is all the sheikah stuff is gone. And the official explanation is that it just all disappeared. And no one bothered to look into it

[@Soguwe]

It didnt, tho Most of it was disassembled by Purah and gang to build new stuff, and a bunch of places where shrines and towers stood are holes into the Underground now, eaten away by gloom

[@m4rcyonstation93]

​​@@Soguwe ALL of it? Like, are you kidding? Theres like 100 shrines (being real idr exact number) and 4 divine BEASTS There's one mention of the divine beasts that I could find anywhere and that's an offhand comment in rito. Not to mention all the guardians

[@Soguwe]

@@m4rcyonstation93 most of that stuff isn't meant to be around all the time The shrines emerged to aid link in his quest, not to stick around All sky view towers just have a bunch of guardian pieces attatched

[@baydenwoodland1235]

I have to assume it was actually quite a while ago since Link defeated calamity Ganon since there is literally a whole new village, the four peoples are much more integrated, Purah has grown up again, Hudson is actively trying to rebuild homes all over the world, culture has shifted (Cece), etc, they cleaned up the sheikah stuff and made their own tech which is obviously based on that. So I think it's been much more than four hours.

[@baydenwoodland1235]

But overall you guys make some really interesting points and I enjoyed this, hope I'm not coming off as pedantic. I just felt that the "time passage" seemed real to me.

[@portiac6097]

What new village

[@StephenN.Parker]

yeah, definitely a few years has passed, look at all the kid in Hateno Village, Rito Village, etc. they all grown from at least 4-5 to around 8-10.

[@Serai4hire]

My favorite example of the time passing was some of the kids growing up. Hudson’s daughter is around 5-6, Pearle’s daughter is older, and Tulin is like 8.

[@joshuaford417]

Most people agree its been 4-6 years between BoTW and ToTK

[@GeekMasterGames]

If it's a different Hyrule... it wouldn't feel as satisfying. I dunno. It was pitched as the "unnamed sequel to Breath of the Wild" for years and years and years. Yeah, okay, they double-dipped in some of the story beats. But honestly, with a world and game engine like this, it's what it's best at. Edit: It's been about 6-8 years since the end of BotW. Link and Zelda are in their 20s and people forget who he is. But yeah, still kinda crap about Kakariko.

[@TheJadedJames]

Returning to the same map was still engaging from and exploration perspective because if you are super familiar with BOTW, you have an investment in this world and seeing how everything changed. You spend you chunks of time original areas & once the Upheaval happens you’re like “I wonder what happened to XYZ” It is fun to see new things. But it is also fun to revisit stuff. I will never forget how hyped I was when I realized a large chunk of the RDR1 game map existed in RDR2. I spent a whole day nostalgically exploring locations from the first game, curious to see how they’d be represented in the prequel

[@GodsFavoriteJewIsBlack_CAP-316]

@@TheJadedJamestrue

[@evaviolinist]

I think part of the identity crisis is that after seeing how many new players BOTW brought in, they wanted to make a game that could also be a standalone game to appeal to people potentially just entering the game and also a sequel to appeal to those who played BOTW.

[@facepwnagewtf]

And it somehow fails on both fronts. I understand not everyone in Hyrule will recognize who Link is, but when major characters who you canonically would have interacted with don't recognize you it makes the story feels a little bit hallow. One part of BOTW i distinctly remember is the Zora (forgot her name) who remembers link from over 100 years ago even though he doesn't, and talks to him like they are still longtime friends. Little things like that give so much personality to the story. While in TOTK there's a giant statue in the middle of Zora's Domain with Link riding on the back of their prince after saving them, and still a large percent of them don't even seem to know who Link is, or treat him like just another traveller... "Like WTF game, did my actions in BOTW mean nothing to these people."

[@APsGTG]

And they couldn’t do either. They really should’ve just went for it and allowed people who didn’t play the original BotW to be a bit confused and put in hints for them to play that game too, because most people who played Tears of the Kingdom already beat BotW. Either that, or don’t make 100% a direct sequel.

[@Afterthoughts]

GO SUBSCRIBE TO JOSH'S CHANNEL: www.youtube.com/@thenukes If you liked the narrative voice in this video, you will like his videos xD Go! Do it!! Do it now!! (thanks love you)

[@Voortsy]

That opening take about the intro to the game is insane.

[@ninjaeddy1717]

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about it too. I feel like they were just exaggerating for effect

[@facepwnagewtf]

This video touches on a big issue i have with both BOTW and TOTK. Link as a character has little to no agency in his own game. I understand that he's meant to be an avatar that the player can reflect onto but.... I have a really hard time reflecting onto a character that has all the charisma of a plank of wood, and doesn't react to anything happening around him other than smiling when he chomps down a meal in the menu. For the love of Goth Wolf i hope the next game gives link back some personality, and doesn't have him respond to every story beat by doing the mile long stare off into the distance reaction. Personally as a life time fan since ALTTP i think it would be time to give him a voice, and actually respond to and interact with characters around him, but if not that at the very least bring him up to Wind Waker or Skyward Sword standards of expressiveness by actually reacting to the events happening right in front of him. Instead of being like hey i just defeated the Demon King, saved Hyrule, resurrected the princess, and immediately rescued her from a 20 mile free fall down the stratosphere... Guess I'll just stare deadpan while she talks at me.

[@JallenMeodia]

An interesting video, and I know you exaggerate for the sake of comedy and to support your argument. But no is hasn't been four hours and no you don't have the Master Sword unless you do something in the game that most players wouldn't do much, much later.

[@coolguychecker7329]

Great video, I'm glad to see more people discussing these issues with the game. While I agree with you both about the narrative, I'm not sure I follow the Kobayashi Maru framing. The biggest issue in this game, for me, is the structure. I think everything wrong with the narrative is a symptom of reusing the exact same structure of Breath of the Wild. If they changed the structure for Tears of the Kingdom, I don't think failure would have been inevitable for either audience. I was honestly shocked that towers, shrines, koroks, blood moons, and quests all performed the exact same functions as they did in Breath of the Wild. Having a static world for the player to slowly unlock in which NPCs only provide information to guide you through that world, rarely taking part in any action themselves, is incapable of telling any other story except one in which the player must constantly prove themselves. You can fix all these issues about how Link was portrayed with full hearts at the beginning or why Link needed to sneak into Gerudo Town, but at the end of the day it would all have just been better and more convincing pretense to prove yourself again. I think the Kakariko Ring Ruins are a perfect example of the game's structural problems. They reused Breath of the Wild's open world but decided to tell a much more linear story in it. The Ring Ruins interactions is there to prevent the player from definitively finding out about the fifth sage before they are far enough in the story. The problem is that no such absolute obstacles exist elsewhere for this quest. In fact, the fifth sage was the first one I found and I had them in party when I first got to the Ring Ruins. If you walk under the most relevant sky island the ring ruin eventually sends you towards, there is a humongous density of rewind blocks falling from it that take you right up to the island. Have enough hearts and there's nothing stopping you from accidentally skipping the whole quest that starts at the Ring Ruins and leads up to the fifth sage. This is not just a problem with the Ring Ruins, nearly every part of the main quest has this problem. Breath of the Wild's open world is simply the wrong structure for the kind of adventure they want you to have in Tears of the Kingdom. The world is a great sandbox for the new mechanics though, which isn't much consolation if you didn't care for them.

[@SocraTetris]

This format was so good! This is the best example of a debate format video I've ever seen. I'm not even blowing smoke here. Very excited for part 2

[@Afterthoughts]

Wheeeee :D I'm so glad!!!

[@LambHoot]

this is exactly why my personal head-canon is that Princess Diaries 2 happens in an alternate dimension or something. Just a whole different vibe, and cannot accept that Mia from 1 is the same Mia in 2 ☠️

[@Jogjosmowwdkfs]

You get me. She's so different in the second one. No one ever mentions that movie it feels like. I have it on vhs

[@sambeckettcat]

If I were to come up with an alternative intro, I’d start with Link waking up on the Sky Island, then you’d get little snippets of flashbacks as you progress (perhaps one per tutorial shrine) and then a full pieced together cutscene rould be available on the Purah Pad after you finish the tutorial. (Also I would’ve had a bit in one of Purah’s diaries more clearly explaining what happened to the Sheika shrines and towers) And story-wise Calamity Ganon was essentially an embodiment if Ganondorf’s malice that festered since he got imprisoned.

[@Breeze926]

Purah already has that cutscene explaining the thing in the caves when you first talk to her in Lookout Landing so it's like they were setting up for that.

[@nzpowa._.6662]

3 things Link ate all the sheinkah tech thanks to monk maz koshia learning to cook sheikah tech to give link his final 2 hearts or stamina wheels 2) age of calamity is a better "sequel" for botw than totk. And 3) aoc needs a sequel just to really sit with us as zelda fans for the l o r e

[@kentonroush]

Man, it's fascinating to me that this is... Just about as far from my take on this as possible. I don't think I've seen any Afterthoughts video I disagree with this much! Because yeah, there are lots of other ways they could have done this sequel. They could have, as usual, just made Another Zelda Game, in another Hyrule, yes. But... SO much would be lost if they did that. This is the first time, the literal first time, we have ever gotten to see Hyrule post-saving. And that's like, one of my FAVORITE things about sequels in franchises that don't usually get them! There is definitely, no argument, a lot of *jank* in how it was handled, with link kinda needing to be a pushover a lot of the time to avoid overly excessive sequence breaking being trivial, and they have to let the idea that Link is famous but not recognizable do a lot of heavy lifting, and I think the balance on how much your past feats are acknowledged is kinda off... But. If you ask me, it is so, so much more than worth it. Almost every single NPC is back from the previous game- And ALL of them have moved on with their lives. Kids have grown up and started to take more active roles in their communities. Couples have gotten together or broken up. Cowards have grown into warriors to try and live up to Link's example. Cultures mix, towns grow, plotlines advance. Everywhere you go, the world is rebuilding. You feel in every inch of Hyrule how much work Zelda has done to restore her kingdom in the past 6 to 8-ish years. In breath of the wild, Hyrule was a post-apocalyptic wreck, barely hanging on, with everyone terrified of monsters and constrained to tiny remote villages except for rare, regularly attacked travelers. In tears of the kingdom, Hyrule has responded to a new calamity by organizing, fighting back, researching, uniting. You can run into the monster extermination squads and just kinda watch them go, able to handle things totally without your help if you let them! Sure they're wearing buckets on their heads instead of helmets, but they're trying darn it. Even with the big four main questlines, everyone isn't just sitting around waiting for a hero, they've learned and grown from the previous game. Urbosa is a proper leader now, and has gotten her people to safety and begun practicing to handle things herself. Sidon is pushing himself to his limits to keep Zora's Domain safe, but he is managing it. The Rito are in a bad position and too hard up to help anyone else, but the next generation has stepped up to keep the town running while the adults deal with the problem. The gorons... Are less effective, but that's because their problem IS something rendering them lazy and useless. Breath of the Wild is an experience defined by loneliness and melancholy. Its sequel is an experience defined by unity and progress. That wouldn't feel nearly as good as it does if it weren't a true direct sequel, in the same place, with the same people. Edit: The only other game I know of that nails this specific feeling of "the world was saved, and you can be proud of how it's rebuilding itself", is final fantasy X-2. The game gets a bad rap, and I can see why, but god, it is just so good seeing Spira LIVE after an entire game of it just kind of barely, morosely surviving.

[@TheNukes]

This is a great point! I hadn’t really looked at Hyrule from that viewpoint, but the idea that they’re kinda fine without Link is fascinating. For me the “Hyrule restoration project” felt so transparently like an excuse to give Link toys to gloop together that I just didn’t take it seriously as a feature of the world, but I think it’s both. (Like, I would have liked that idea better in a game without Ultrahand tbh.)

[@kentonroush]

@@TheNukes Haha. Oh yeah, the random stacks of building materials everywhere are pretty transparent, no argument there. For me, it's all the little details that I love. There's actually another recent video essay that goes into a lot of it, called "What I Learned Photographing NPCs in Tears of the Kingdom", just an hour of diving into the lives of NPCs and how they've changed between games. Highly recommended.

[@ThePiachu]

See, the game should've maybe been a prequel, from the 100 years ago when Link and his buddies were fighting Ganon the first time. Same map, similar people, people already dig the story, let's go! Or maybe you could've played as Zelda and she would have to get stronger since Link got incapacitated and is in the regen shrine again. Or heck, maybe a prequel where you play as Zelda and go buddy buddy with Rauru against Ganon at the founding of Hyrule! They could've also pulled the first game again with a cold open of Link, naked in a regen pool, no memories of what happened having to piece together how Hyrule went to heck and what knocked out all the memories out of him and why Zelda isn't here. That could've been a nice opening... But yeah, a lot of ways to make the premise better while still being able to keep the same map and other assets they have worked on so hard...

[@DaNintendude]

The first idea you shared is basically what Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity is. I really like the Zelda & Rauru idea though. Seeing the past of Hyrule was really cool, so having that fleshed out as a full game would've been awesome.

[@i8dacookies890]

I liked that Seinfeld gag, it was very Girlfriend Reviews-esque!

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha thank you!! I had a lot of fun piecing that together :P Never heard of Girlfriend Reviews!! :0 guess I need to check them out!

[@TheMegaMario3]

9:08 Hold on.... who said we wouldn't want that 😳

[@TheNukes]

This is my favorite comment

[@bethanyblueberry]

Another thing relating to the weird sequel status was the lack of explanation of where the divine beasts and old navigational towers went. Obviously from a game mechanics point you can't have the player zooming around the map immediantly, and finding the new towers gives players another thing to explore, but there's never any in-game reason. The devs could have given someone like Purah a line about how the towers disappeared after the Calamity ended, or that they became damaged, or that all the ancient Sheikah tech was dismantled to stop Ganon taking it over again, or something. Instead we get nothing. The old shrines are gone, the old towers are gone, the divine beasts are gone, and no one even talks about the old champions.

[@DaNintendude]

I think the intention was to let players theorize the reason on their own. But there's not much satisfaction in the way they handled it. My own theory is that they were dismantled and used to build the Lookout Towers and new Purah tech. But it would be better if there were more hints as to what really happened. Don't directly tell me, but put more little details around that leads me to think harder about it.

[@45545videos]

I didn't mind the intro glorified cutscene all that much. I *loved* Breath of the Wild, and I totally let myself get immersed in the universe during the first few minutes of this game. Even though I knew what was going to happen, I still ate it up.

[@Zeutomehr]

I find it quite sad that Zelda apparently is such a holy, can do nothing wrong that you need to preface your criticism with 5 minutes of caveat. I really didn't like TOTK, and I _do_ think that there's a lot wrong with it mechanically, so thank you for making this, it's always strangely cathartic to me to see people dislike TOTK amidst all the praise. still, some comments: while Zelda and Link have always been new incarnations, Ganondorf had always been the same guy all timeline.(there is that one exception in 4 swords adventures, but we don't talk about that one). SS did muddle that a bit with Demise, but he(it?) isn't quite Ganondorf anyway. I don't think Nintendo will continue to follow the timeline anymore. BOTW already didn't fit the timeline, but you were able to include it with a lot of handwaving. TOTK makes any integration with the wider timeline impossible. And to be clear, I don't think of that as a bad thing. The games never were developed with a clear order of events in mind, but instead as different stories within a wider legendarium, referencing each other from time to time.

[@DDruxy]

Honestly my biggest gripe is that they just hand waved the sheika shrines away. At that point yeah, why even do a sequel when you don’t engage with these elements

[@colin3ds1]

Sheikah stuff appearing and disappearing is kind of their thing though And all sheikah tech can disolve into a blue liquid My assumption is that after fulfilling their purpose All the sheikah tech turned back into blue energy

[@willytor7899]

I loved TOTK but i agree with a lot of your points about how the story is awkward specifically due to its relationship with botw. TOTK is full of strange absences. Important concepts and things that are crucial to botw are either rarely mentioned or completely absent. I found it really odd how rarely the champions are mentoned. For some reason, Yunobo, who in breath of the wild literally inherited daruk's protection and uses it significantly in that game just no longer has it in tears of the kingdom. The most glaring absence is all of the sheikah technology. I can understand the shrines being gone, they emerged from the earth in botw, they can go back down into it. no big deal. the weird part is the guardians, and the divine beasts, these massive contraptions that towered over the landscapes, are just gone without explanation. The only nod you get to them are the masks the sages wear in flashbacks. While not as glaring, something i found funny was the divine beast helmets. All of the amiibo exclusive gear from Breath of the Wild is obtainable without amiibo in some way in TOTK, and this includes the divine beast helmets, which are specifically the designs from breath of the wild and not the masks the sages wear, and the design from breath of the wild was supposed to compliment and serve as an alternate head piece for the ancient set, which, is not in Tears of the Kingdom.

[@Nkanyiso_K]

Is Gloop really the bane of your existence? I get being annoyed by Goop but Gloop is love 😅

[@maxhensley1685]

I don't think they carried it off perfectly, but I'm a lot less bothered than you are by people not recognizing or making a big deal over Link, for largely the same reason I wasn't bothered in the first game. Hyrule has no mass-media. Basically the only person in the game's cast who's seen or used a camera is Link himself. Just recently as of the start of the second game, they have a newspaper, but if it has any visuals at all, they're probably artistic renditions by a person who's never seen the events recounted. Most people don't recognize Link because they've only ever heard descriptions of him, or if they've seen him before, they didn't know who he was the first time either. This is aided by the fact that Link is implied to talk only slightly more than we, the player, actually get to hear him talk. He's probably too taciturn to lean on his reputation much, because then people *would* start fussing around him everywhere he goes, and that's just not a desirable lifestyle for the sort of guy who'll spend half a day scaling the side of a sheer cliff.

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha yeah at the end of the day it is so *massively* low stakes and it's interesting that so many folks (like me) had their experience impacted by the question, "why don't people know Link?" Because I ultimately think that YOU'RE RIGHT! There are lots of reasons for people to not know/remember him!

[@Eira_99]

Huh, really. I almost fully disagree with every point you guys made, not in a rude way. Its just rare to see a video I have the complelte oposite opnion of, interesting to hear tho.

[@Afterthoughts]

LOL this is genuinely one of my favorite comments so far :D I'm glad you thought it was interesting even while disagreeing! I think that's what's fun about essays, everyone just gathering 'round to share opinions!

[@byereality7492]

I wished and still wish that it was link who was cast back into the past instead of Zelda. I hate that he has no impact on the story except to be the ex machina

[@Afterthoughts]

That would've been so interesting to play!! I'd have loved to explore this world in the past for myself.

[@amog8202]

Also, it too made me so annoyed when the characters I remembered by face, name, or both just... Didn't remember me, no matter if I did something huge for them or not. Folks in Tarrey Town act like you've pretty much never met, except hudson and rhondson. Countless side characters hardly know LINK'S name when I, the player, audibly went "Oh, hey! It's (name)!!" So you're telling me I can co-found a town and only two people in it act familiar with me, but I can instantly know that some 8-ish y/o kid in Hateno Village is that one really little kid from the first game, just by his funny-looking FACE? Bullshit!! I also remembered Calip, the ring ruins loser, from the first game, where he poorly studied a shrine you could solve using hints he gave you, and he is established immediately as a loser during the shrine quest. And now, in the next game, he's suddenly the boss of ME??? Bullshit! Again! And lastly, where the FUCK is Kass?!?! He has a wife and like, 5 kids and you expect me to believe he's not going to be around during a state of emergency??? BULL! SHIT! Again, again! And there probably won't even be a DLC??? WHAT TRICKERY IS THIS?!

[@joshuaford417]

Most people agree its been 4-6 years between BoTW and ToTK

[@Afterthoughts]

Right! But when commenting about the vibe of the early game, without having the context clues of talking to specific NPCs, there aren't a lot of early indicators.

[@SplitterTriplets]

I disagree with most of this, and I'm kinda disappointed that you would make so many seemingly bad faith arguments. I know you've paid lip service to "just four hours" being hyperbole, but it's still kind of a baffling argument. There are so many details in the world that show how much time has passed. Just earlier this week I watched a great video on all the NPCs in the game that showed that each child from BOTW was given a new slightly older looking character model for this game. Even if we accept your premise that its important that the player immediately know how much time has passed between games (which for the record, I don't), one of the first things we see is Link with new clothes and Zelda with a new haircut, which is like visual storytelling 101 for "time has passed since you last saw these characters."

[@SplitterTriplets]

I also heavily disagree with the assertion that this should have been a different Link or a different map. Going back and seeing how the people of Hyrule were rebuilding from the calamity was super interesting, and one of my favorite parts of the game. It's something that the Zelda series has never done before, and I'm really glad that they took this rare opportunity to do so.

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

In general the entire video is just repeating the same points over and over without really expanding on them much. I was hoping this would be similar in style to her stamina wheel video but this just seems like an edited Discord call.

[@j03man44]

My biggest disappointment is that there was no improvement on the shrines. Like why did they have to be geographically in the same place? You can just completely miss tutorials for the entire game if you miss the shrine. If instead they had most shrines depend on the order you encountered them instead of where you encountered them, it would have solved a lot of tutorialization issues. They could have also had some of the shrines give keys to open up a real dungeon with proper multi-part puzzles (like the one in the breath of the wild bike dlc) instead of making 100 single challenge shrines again. Same thing with the dragon tears. Why did they have to be tied to a specific location? They could have told the story in a proper order instead of having specific memories tied to specific locations. There was so much room for improving on an open world Tutorial and storytelling and they just didn't even try to make any improvements over what they did in breath of the wild.

[@j03man44]

Actually I lied. My real biggest disappointment is that as someone who played through the first game twice the exploration and sense of wonder I felt at the new game didn't last more than 15 hours. The great sky Island and depths were interesting at first but the depths are ugly and everything looks the same even when it's not pitch black (which makes most of the exploration boring after the first few light roots), the over world is only 5% different than in botw, and too much time passes between the new and interesting content in the sky islands. The best part of botw was picking a destination you could see in the distance and getting surprised and sidetracked by beautiful scenery, shrines, korok puzzles and mini quests while journeying towards your destination. If you already explored everything in botw there just isn't a high enough density of new interesting places to explore.

[@j03man44]

My third least favorite thing is how even though they made items so much more useful, they didn't rethink the armor upgrade system. If I wanted to upgrade my armor I had to avoid fusing a lot of my items because I never knew which armor sets would need which items. It was so frustrating to upgrade an armor set then see that the next tier requires 21 electric lizalfos tails that would be so much more fun to fuse. Instead you have to run all over the desert marking every electric lizalfos cursing at the 30% drop rate and do it all over again at the next blood moon. And don't get me started on the zonai armor upgrades. I didn't get it until late in the game and all of the soldier and captain constructs were too high tier for me to get the parts I needed so the only option was to find and farm the specific shrines that don't scale the enemy tier with your progress through the game😢

[@delecti]

I totally agree with your thesis, TotK *doesn't* want to be a sequel, but a lot of the things you criticize were actually things I thought they did surprisingly well. The intro establishes "yes, this is the same world, but here's why everything is different", and that this Hyrule is definitively not the same one as "the timeline" ("the imprisoning war" is irreconcilably different). It also (*very* importantly IMO) makes it plainly clear how much Link and Zelda mean to each other. Sure, Link always saves Zelda because that's what he does, but giving them a few minutes to just exist together sets up all of Zelda's motivations throughout the memories. And Zelda's actions in those memories make this the *most* "Legend of Zelda" Zelda; everything that happens is because she spent an undefined amount of time in the past making sure Link would have the best fighting chance after she *spoilers redacted*. As for why Link is Schrodinger's Hero, that kinda works for me too. Everyone knows about the legandary swordsman, but this little nerd is 5'2", surely that's not whom I'm talking to. My biggest complaint (and it's not that big) is that none of the conversations change based on what you've already done. The ncient Rito hero will still tell you about the imprisoning war even if you've heard the same tale from the Gerudo, Goron, and Zora. Only like one line of dialog is remotely different even if you already have the master sword (and thus know what that means). *Mechanically* the world is incredibly reactive, but narratively it's completely inflexible.

[@CrasherLIX]

The only placrs that make this game feel like a sequel are the zora domain and the gerudo valley. The zora's remember you... most of them, and the gerudo treat you as the hero you are even if they don't rember you because fmgosh darn you are the first man allowed in over a century.

[@skkat7336]

I find it really funny that all of the 3d zelda games alternate between taking the ground away and giving it back including botw and totk

[@TheSunnyOne]

I'm a big Zelda nerd, and i honestly agree with all of this except your multiverse suggestion. I think it should've just been set 100 years later. Hyrule rebuilt, but sudden catastrophe as new Link and new Zelda trigger another calamity, etc, etc. Intro could have been walking through a mostly rebuilt Castle Town & Hyrule Castle, only for all that wirk to be set back by the new calamity. But yeah, this is why i've yet to bother completing TotK.

[@__dane__]

Honestly, I disagree about the first scene

[@clvr51]

That whole segment about the different Zeldas had me laughing so hard lol thabks, I needed that

[@PixelLitKevin]

I've loved every version of this video :)

[@Afterthoughts]

D'awww thanks :)

[@hellomiguel_]

Gosh I’m so in love with the idea of “just re-roll a new Link/Zelda”. Yeah, that would’ve gone a long way for me.

[@DaNintendude]

I disagree with a lot of random points of the video, but I absolutely agree about the "Link is a nobody that no one remembers" argument. Like, in context it makes some sense. BOTW probably took place over the course of a month at most. Afterward, Link doesn't really interact with these guys for the next 5 years. Zelda is the active one, and Link just accompanies her sometimes. Pretty much all of Zora's Domain knows who he is, which fits really thematically with his role there in BOTW. But Rito Village and Goron City don't, because Link wasn't really that involved. Gerudo Town never opened up to let him in after the events of the first game, and the only reason he's let in now is because of the unique Sand Shroud situation. Characters don't remember Link, because even though he had impacts on their lives, he was really only there for a few days like 5 years ago... But yeah, despite all the context making sense, it's SO disappointing!! The first thing I did after getting off the Great Sky Island was spot a stable and run to it. I met a kid and I was immediately blown away because "THIS IS THAT KID THAT WAS AT THIS STABLE IN BOTW, BUT NOW HE'S OLDER!!!" It was so cool to me!... But then as I kept playing and I realized that no one recognized me, I was getting disappointed. I had just replayed BOTW in Master Mode over the previous year, so I was very familiar with every NPC. I was ecstatic to meet simple characters like Juanelle again and see what they've done with their lives over the last few years. And that was still fun, but MAN! I think the decision to continue BOTW's story was pretty interesting. Showing that the reason Calamity Ganon existed at all is because Ganondorf was stuck sealed underground, and had to just let his hatred and anger seep out as a physical representation of his malice. With that being said, they definitely could've had more of an impact, and I really hope the next game takes a break from Ganon to have a new villain. TOTK could've done so much more with how Link interacts with the people of the world, but it really just feels like you're just a stranger again, and it's so sad.

[@coynelaundry]

i rly liked this video. featuring contrasting opinions as the focal point helps the overall pacing, keeps me engaged in a conversation, makes me feel like i can engage in a more holistic way, without the need to needle or "gotcha" any particular point. (not that i tend to do that but i do feel that impulse all the same) like. your video is conducive to mindfulness is what im saying. how did u do that. thats awesome. ur (plural) awesome. best vid ever

[@QuestingRefuge]

I wonder if they were planning to wipe everyone's memories but then were like shit that's been done Marvel recently so we'll just roll without it. That Kramer edit 😂 It is really odd to actually continue a Zelda this time in a full fledged game. I love seeing the stuff people made in the game but I ended up passing on this one.

[@dirtywhitellama]

Where on earth did you get the idea only four hours passed? Did you even talk to the NPCs? Did you remember any of the ones from the first game? It's clearly been several years, there are kids running around Hateno who are hype about school because Zelda built it for them, the guy you help get married in the first game has a daughter old enough to be sent off to the Gerudo now (and old enough to cogently discuss her Gerudo language lessons with Link), etc. Definitively not "four hours". You make some interesting points overall but I don't agree with your conclusions.

[@dirtywhitellama]

One of the things I actually really enjoyed in TOTK that you don't usually get in Zelda games was talking to people I remembered helping in BOTW, and seeing where they'd gone and what they'd done since. Throwing Link somewhere else, or making him a new Link that looks the same, wouldn't have possibly had that effect at all.

[@Afterthoughts]

If you rewatch the video, the line is "Four Hours! At that point, as far as we know, it has been four hours." At that point, in the opening, as far as the player knows, it has been four hours. That evidence of the passage of time doesn't exist before you hit the mainland. I seriously debated putting a stronger caveat into the video because I was like "this line isn't going to be strong enough" and looks like I should've after all.

[@hannahkosten4040]

Well now I want to talk to you about the Kobiyashi Maru.

[@TavernMasterZeyv]

You know... I both disagree and agree with you both... I feel TotK is both an amazing sequel and a terrible sequel depending on what you're looking for... But explaining any of that would require me writing an entire bloody essay or for me to make my own video.. so I guess I'll just say what I just said and leave it as a comment for engagement xD God does this new format makes me wish I could just hop into the discord call and argue along with you two

[@Afterthoughts]

Ha!!! Next discord call I'll let you know xD xD xD

[@Afterthoughts]

(fr though I'm reading all the comments so I'd love your perspectives, I like the agreements & disagreements equally!)

[@TavernMasterZeyv]

@@Afterthoughts well, I'll keep you in the loop if I do somehow find the time to write some of these thoughts out, just need to find the eldritch translation device first to make some sense of the ADHD brain maelstrøm 🤔 xD

[@Lalovoe]

I love this game but for so many reasons I think it should not have been a sequel.

[@ninjaeddy1717]

I see where you 2 are coming from, but it just didn’t bother me. I think of it like this team went through a creative period and we got 2 1/2 games worth of gaming out of it. It’s like how Ghostface Killah made Fish Scale and then released More Fish. He was going through his Fish era.

[@jondw]

11:31 I would like to point out(split timeline complications and maybe Tears not withstanding) virtually all the Gannons and Gannondorfs are the same guy. like Link and Zelda keep being reincarnated/have their position inherited, but the Gannondorf who is in Ocarina is the same guy who is the Gannon in the original Legend of Zelda, and the Gannondorf in Twilight, and the Gannondorf in Windwaker. if anyone is going to go "this Again!" it's going to be that dude. side question, how long lived are gurudo? or is it specifically a male gurudo thing that him live so long?

[@ienjoyoranges]

i just finished watching The Ancient Magus' Bride (i dont know the japanese name) and i realized that link's zamboni arm is like... [SPOILERS] is like Chise's curse that she gets when she sucks all the magic out of that dragon. y'know, the curse that "made an agreement" with her curse of immortality? P.S zamboni arm not same arm as dragon arm

[@hongkongatonn]

I feel like this might be a problem i've made up in my head about totk's story and narrative, but im just gonna blabber. Brought to you by the Ganondorf should be cool society. Tldr; Ganondorf blows in totk If Tears of the Kingdom was going to continue or expand on the themes and story of the first, if they were going to have the story in the same world and bring back Ganondorf as an actual guy again, not just goop monsters, I really hoped for more of a complex main villain. This version of ganondorf is probably the worst of all his appearances, in my opinion might as well just have been big goopy monsters again!!! If he was just going to be a pure evil villain make him a fun villain like he was in Ocarina (fun is subjective I guess) he was always goin around doing evil shit! So dastardly! Even then Ocarina Ganondorf was implied at least to be a little more deep than that! If you want him to be cool and developed…my fave Ganondorf, Wind Waker come on. If you want him to be a complex but ultimately terrible person just look how you guys wrote him in Wind Waker! He actually has a motive for wanting the triforce other than bad man want bad things, he's just a bitter tired old man who once cared immensely about his people but was twisted into a spiteful sad husk. He was chosen, just like Link and Zelda in that he is fated to be nothing else than what he is in this never-ending divine battle. This is where I come back to totk. And by themselves I really wanted them to expand upon. And I know this is just my personal taste, But so much of the first game was exploring how Zelda felt about her role as a reincarnation of the goddess hylia and how or if she was going to live up to it. If there's one thing I didn't really care for in Breath of the Wild is that we only get to have little snippets of Zelda getting character development but she's almost the only character that gets development in that game so I guess I'll work with that. What we get from tears of the kingdom is that most of the potentially interesting characters are either dead or trapped in a dragon. They should have just made all of the cool events happen in like the present! I'm not sure how you'd make that happen but i'm sure you could. Just make my guy interesting and ask questions of Ganondorf that you asked of Zelda in the first game. What is his role in this new world, what does he do now that he's revived, does he go back to the gerudo, do they banish him? How does his destiny to be the demon king changed him? Is it an inevitability or can it be broken free of, does he lean into the evil or try to fight it, I don't know just make him cool. Sorry for the ungodly amount of commas,,,

[@randomedgygamer2191]

I can’t believe Zelda fans consider the plot of this game an actual “story” lol

[@Soleil.m]

I'm pretty salty about BoTW 2... It was Nintendo's perfect opportunity to fix what was wrong in BoTW. Instead, they did the same thing all over again, in the same Hyrule, yet SO MANY people don't recognize Link. It's such an odd choice. Hate to sound dramatic, but it feels like the game is insulting our intelligence. I think it would've been cool to grant our boy Link some development this time around. Last game was Zelda's, ToTK's could've been Link's. Instead he just stands around looking extremely bored except when Zelda is directly involved. It's like they were allergic to giving him emotions or something.

[@HaydenTheEeeeeeeeevilEukaryote]

I liked the atmosphere of the opening but the writing flaws showed themselves the moment Zelda started spoon-feeding us a lot of convenient lore in a tell-dont-show way. I also despise how much the game seems to disrespect BotW. Why isn’t Sheikah tech acknowledged outside the towers/Purah stuff? What happened to it all? Is it just “don’t think about it” or does some random NPC somewhere that most players will miss explain? And why doesn’t even Hetsu recognize you? It feels like everything we watched in the previous game, the world we explored and went through just soft-rebooted and it makes everything feel cheap. The writing being painfully infantizing to the audience rubbed that feeling in too much.

[@thelastwindwaker7948]

I would think that they didn't NEED to let you have all the hearts and such, since previous direct sequels just started you with three hearts and didn't question it. I feel like this was all specifically because the Master Sword breaking was set up as the big "omg game changer" moment for this game. And since modern Zelda is so aggressively non-linear, it can't happen during the middle of the game. It has to break at the start, and you have to have it repaired by the end, hence why the game gives you the sword if you get to the final boss without it.

[@OccuredJakub12]

Okay, this will sound super fanficy, but what if... Link and Zelda went to that cave together and met Ganondorf but he managed to actually kill both of them in one stroke. Then, you as the player wake up in a pool or somewhere else as a new being that looks like a nonbinary fusion of Link and Zelda and that's who you'll play through the game. You have a different name than Link and can't even pick it as an option. Maybe you also actually have Zelda's voice in your mind and she isn't sure what happened but somehow she can only talk in your body. And then as you venture through the game, not only do people not recognize you or treat you as Link, but you also have Ganondorf now having the Triforces or Power and Wisdom and wreaking havoc across the land as himself, like a kind of Nemesis character whom.if you meet unprepared could wipe the floor with you and maybe he even dynamically creates stronger monsters around him and destroys the land.

[@napalmx5300]

What's even sadder about the constant interruption and scolding you get when trying to explore the Ring Ruins early is that it's a ripoff of something used months earlier in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet. If you try to jump the fence, glide over, or anything of the sort near a Team Star base you somehow get a Prof. Oak scolding from off-screen Star grunts and booted back to wherever you were previously.