Dolby was wrong! Place your Atmos speakers here instead, Performance over Aesthetics

[@Britishbandogge]

I have cut out 12 holes in my ceiling. I went from 2 speakers at 0°. Then 4 at +55° and -55°. Then 6 at +55°, 0°, -55° . (Based on recommendations from respected people on KZbin, Audioholics, Anthony Gremani , Home Theatre gurus etc.) Then I watched Techno Dad's atmos renderer videos. Which threw a spanner in the works. So, I decided to make six extra holes that are in line with the bed layer. Lots of moving speakers, and crawling around the loft, and recalibration, and listening, and moving speakers, and crawling around the loft, and listening, and recalibration... on and on it went. But..... I think Channa is right. So thanks, Techno Dad, many more man hours later, it sounds right. Guess it's time to start filling in those original holes.🙄

[@TechnoDad]

Wow! That's a lot of work...I applaud you for taking the time and energy to experiment and go with a setup based on what you have found to be the best setup. I'm glad I could help...I can't help you fill those holes though...

[@Britishbandogge]

@@TechnoDad you probably could. But I don't want to find out what your day rate is!

[@fonkenful]

@@Britishbandogge overhead drywall patching and skim coating is a young man’s game; I’m now at 72, so anything under 50 qualifies. 🤭

[@Britishbandogge]

@@fonkenful I'm 37, so I have no excuse! But it's done now. (I'm glad I had the foresight to keep and label the drywall cutouts). There is now no evidence of the carnage that had taken place previously in that room. I guess it's a bit like a serial killer selling an apartment...

[@fonkenful]

@@Britishbandogge Dexter Gordon and the art of home theatre install. 😵‍💫

[@Jim-kz2ox]

Note position of speakers at 12:33 and 12:46 in the pro mixing room. Would it not be best to recreate that layout used in the studio to monitor the mix? Those speakers appear to fall within dolby instruction rather than following your suggestions here.

[@Jim-kz2ox]

Any chance you can comment on the speaker layout in the mixing room?

[@hommer4504]

This!

[@P-LOWN1997]

The come closer "I don’t care" was personal 😂😂

[@TechnoDad]

HAHAHA!

[@fonkenful]

@@TechnoDadcould even have some salty slang in there - it took me a long time to realize that “…at a rolling donut” was just a euphemism.

[@angelajudetv]

lol channeling your inner fresh hater jay there

[@TechnoDad]

@@angelajudetv Yup!

[@alexlanning712]

Loved it

[@Linkone7]

Honestly, Channa is 💯 correct on this...he is basically describing an Auro3D setup. It's better than the Dolby recommendation and still works fine for Atmos.

[@TechnoDad]

Yep, pretty much!

[@bigben9056]

auro 3d basically uses old dolby layout.dolby ditched it bc it didnt work.just read guides for studio layout bc the normall consumer layou has compromises for normal living room.dont get why consumer guide is fucked up

[@FURognar]

@@bigben9056 The height layout works perfectly. In fact, the science says that the height layout is absolutely better than just Atmos "Top" channels alone. Wilfried van Balen of Auro did a ton of research on this fact and has freely shared this information. The Japanese TV corporation NHK has also done extensive research into immersive audio and height content (their format is older than Dolby's. They were giving demos way back in 2005) and their research came to the same conclusion as Wilfried did. Height is a superior position to Ceiling (Top-down). Now, Auro3D chose 30 degree height positioning and NHK chose 45 degree height positioning, but ultimately they are all mounted and processed as height channels. DTS:X and IMAX Enhanced also use height channel processing for its default 7.1.4 positions. In all these formats except Atmos, the Top/ceiling mounted channels are specifically for flyover effects directly above the audience. Most of the height effects are designed to come from above the front, side and rear soundstages (especially reflections and reverberations designed to mimic a specific acoustical space such as a cave or a spaceship etc) Seriously, google NHK 22.2 or Hamasaki 22.2. The results they came up with are interesting (and eye-opening)

[@Andrea-f3d]

So your suggestion here is that we put the top speakers on the side walls aligned vertically above the bed speakers..?

[@curtismariani6303]

Very interesting and makes total sense. I have a 7.1.4 system in my living room, so full of compromises. I had to go for in ceiling speakers for my hight channels so need to bring them in closer to be able to get the best out of them. I’m assuming that if you are advocating putting speakers in the corners, it would be better to use bookshelf sized speakers angled to the listener?

[@GaryHuntPianoman]

would only seem sensible so ..what a waste of money i did ...is it time for some bigger speakers ?

[@TechnoDad]

Yes, Curtis, I would use a bookshelf speaker mounted high up on the front and rear wall.

[@kyleo2113]

Should you place them directly above front rear speakers - ceiling mount if necessary?

[@seelensand]

I don't think the diagram contradicts itself at 10:06, yeah the seating position between the ear level speakers changed, but that does not matter because this diagram is meant to show the angles for the height speakers. And if we compare the height speakers relative to the seating position for the big diagram and the small one, they seem to be identical. It's not telling you where to place your seating position, that's what the large diagram is for, it's only meant to show the angles for the height speakers and their placement.

[@veovius]

Hi, love your content! Does your opinion aboht height speaker placement change depending on the ceiling height of the room? For example, 6' vs 10' vs 15'? Looking at the Atmos box, can you guesstimate the room dimensions based on the screen size?

[@TechnoDad]

I haven't really thought about 15 foot ceilings. Obviously, a 6 foot ceiling would be pretty rough. I think 8 feet hight is a great place to put the speakers. My new Atmos mixing room has 10 foot ceilings, but I am placing the heights at 8 feet high.

[@whitecrowuk575]

That’s the reason why Dolby spec specifies angle not height above the main speakers. If angle is preserved it doesn’t matter how high is your ceiling - it will come from the specific point. I think showing a room/box shape is misleading. It should show the way auro3d shows a bubble. Then people can visualize why angles make sense - it’s not about corners in your space! Sound traveling to your front Atmos speaker is ok - it doesn’t mean it travels closer into your room if your ceiling is lower - it means it comes from that direction. So if it’s mixed to go up above the front soundstage it either will be mixed with front channels or spl will be lower than when coming from front speakers - mimicking greater distance of the object to you. If your room was square and your main listening position was in the middle it’s possible at certain ceiling height to have Atmos speakers directly over front and rear speakers whilst maintaining 45 degree to them. With Auro3d they say to put over main speakers - front and side surrounds but at the same time they say to have them at 30 degrees. This is not possible with all rooms at variable ceiling heights.

[@destryhyde2691]

Love all of the information you share! I have front height speakers and I am adding ceiling speakers at middle or rear (ceiling speakers instead of heights due to no wall behind my living room main listening area/couch). Couch is 10' from center speaker. Which would be the best location for the ceiling speakers, middle or rear?

[@AeroSS87]

This all makes total sense. So for a 7.2.2 setup, where would you say I should put the two height speakers?

[@colinwilby8803]

Thank you this was very informative. Is. Logical extension to this line of thought that we should have a center rear speaker as well?

[@marcuskazuya]

performance. but just to say - i followed the prime elevation manual where it said to "place ypur height speakers as close as possible to the ceiling" and this is where your atmos tester revealed the defects. due to them being close to the ceiling AND the sidewalls (like in the DAR) they caused a lot of echo and completely messed up the directionality of the sound. so i moved it down and closer together - i had my wife hold the speaker up while listening to your tester and then decided on the position. so i'd say yes on this proposal as a general guide but always.. test first!

[@Antimonkat]

you always want to be away from sidewalls, even with the front ear leval. I think the main princinble is keep them at the same palce as your ears just higher, which typically are as close to the screen edge as possible.

[@TechnoDad]

100%!! Test and listen. I hope she didn't have to hold them up for too long! LOL!

[@marcuskazuya]

​​@@TechnoDad she appreciated the difference in sound as well.. worth all the blabbering during that time 😂😂 i'll be considering speaker on a stick next time (those parts doesnt seem to be easily available here)

[@hunterdan0203]

So I have a 7.3.4... where do I put the front height channel speakers? in the front or in the middle.. currently they are in the middle..

[@midevil1980]

The idea of the .4 setup is to have height speakers in front and behind your seating position, while sitting between them all. That way sounds can pan from front to back above you. And ideally, if they are wide dispersion speakers angled toward you, all 4 would sum together above your head, essentially creating a virtual phantom set of Top Middle speakers.

[@TechnoDad]

It all depends on how large your room is. I have had both setups and I like the heights to mimic the front and rear speakers. Selfishly, as I want my Atmos mixes to translate better to my Atmos home theater. I would say try it first before you mount anything. I use the speaker on a stick method - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmixiKebgrWCa6M

[@aliazimi91]

do you recommend the rear heights be directly above the rear surrounds or in the corner? I currently have two in wall rear surrounds that are at ear level hieght and 5 ft between them.. should the rears heights also be directly above the, and 5 ft apart or should they pushed more into the corners?

[@TechnoDad]

Hmmmm...can you send me pictures? I can't seem to picture that - TechnoDad55 at gmail dot com

[@JeezBeez]

What do recommend for a 5 speaker layout. I don't have the side space for the 7 layout out.. but I do for 5... where shouldn't he tops go? Same as the 5?

[@thesaskatchewankid]

So would you say that the speaker layout for Dolby Atmos should be closer to Auro3D with speaker placement in corners facing down at 45°? Should they also be angled towards the listening position on the sidewalls and corners? Would like your input on that. I've been mulling over my Heights for a while now and looking for advice on where to put them and how best to proceed. I've always appreciated your no-nonsense input on performance versus aesthetic versus angles and following charts. Thanks, Techno Dad!

[@joostbertrand]

Performance. Just 1 question. What about the angels everybody is talking about. Or just put the speakers on the richt spot and angle them to main listingposition?

[@TechnoDad]

If I wanted to roll with angles, I would do 30 degrees up for front heights and the same on the other end, 30 degrees up from the rear surrounds.

[@bboyspawn5891]

Sooooo... I do not have a dedicated room. My setup is in my living room, that opens up into my kitchen off to the side. My current AVR is only a 7 channel AVR. As of right now I only have 2 speakers for Atmos/Height. They are not on the ceiling yet. I have them sitting on my towers facing up. My main listening area is further back closer to the back wall and I have two couches along each side wall. Where do you recommend I put my two height speakers for the time being? Front stage up high? Mid way on ceiling or high wall? Or One front, one back middle ceiling? Or any other suggestion. Room is a rectangle with angled ceilings. I will be upgrading my AVR eventually to a 11 or 13 channel.

[@PotaTW]

Hey Techno Dad, Im about to install 7.1.4 setup. I have low ceiling about 6.6feet. Home theather gurus says 55° angle from MLP. Would that be good. My speakers are from factory angled 45°

[@michalissocratous2660]

7.1.6 is the best, but when the space is limited you go with 5.1.4... in the case of limited funds and the 5.1.2 is the only option is bette ti have the 2 atmos channels as front high or on top of the main sitting position?

[@CNW21]

Let's say the best I can set up right now is 5.x.4, which I recently did. I currently have the height speakers in a box around me, where the walls meet the ceiling, pointed at the MLP. There is a pretty even angular split between my surround (which are further rear than ideal but it's what the room allows), the rear heigh, the front height, and then the fronts. Would you instead recommend moving the heights directly over the fronts and rear surrounds instead of this dome like situation which I tried to setup? Or is my solution better since I am limited to 4 heights and if I moved front and back then there would be a big gap overhead?

[@CNW21]

and follow up question, if I could expand to 2 more speaker with a separate amp, would you recommend going 5.x.6 over 7.x.4?

[@Agent-fg9ol]

Dude, I had this same conversation talking to a buddy of mine when listening to demos. He wants me to set up his system and I was telling him why I recommend having the atmos speakers match the positions of the bed layer. He kept going back to the dolby charts and I kept explaining why the bed layer is so good at placing sound in the room and why having the top layer match that exactly would be best. Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. Awesome video and keep up the good work man!

[@TechnoDad]

Ayyy! This is what I've known for the past year and I have been waiting to make this video. I'm so glad I did. Thank you for sharing!

[@samhofman6459]

@@TechnoDad I wish you would have made this last year as now I have already drilled the holes and installed the speakers! What is your take on position of front left and right speakers? How far from the front wall should they be? Some people recommend 4 feet from the front wall, but that looks pretty funky, but it would be directly under my atmos speakers at that point. Should I move the fronts out 4 feet or cut new holes and move the atmos speakers?

[@phillipblades6784]

I just bought a new set of seven speakers for my AVR/surround system. This video makes me want to try to use the older ones for height speakers now. I have a 10x12 living room and I have to use the 10 foot distance for the front to rear. I’m sitting about 8 feet away from the screen and have nothing but wall behind me. Except for a window that I don’t want to block. My A/V amp is a Yamaha RX-V683. I don’t know exactly what it is capable of really doing. Right now the front speakers are placed in a “V” formation from the center to the mains to the front presence speakers at about 7 feet high. These could be put higher since I have 9 foot ceilings. The two surround speakers are placed on the walls about 3 feet above and slightly behind me, in the rear corners of the room. I’m in the left corner of the room and there’s no other way to arrange the furniture. After watching this video, you have made me want to (at least) move the main speakers to the front corners of the room at ear level. This won’t be easy for the left side because I have to go up and around a door frame with a third thick gauge wire. I can’t really lower the surround speakers because a piece of furniture is in the way. If you can picture this layout, what do you think of it? And is it improvable? Like I said, no furniture can be moved to another location in this small house. Simply because there’s no room to put it anywhere else. Thanks for your opinion.

[@GTGrabber]

So where do you position the middle height speakers when the side surrounds are adjacent to the seating position. The seating position is 1/3 from the back wall. Do you colocated them with the side surrounds or in the middle of the room?

[@midevil1980]

Great question!

[@Antimonkat]

yeah you would if you are trying to follow this advice. but if you havd 6 heights, thats where they should be anyway. for either method.

[@TechnoDad]

I would put the middle heights above the MLP, or just in front of the MLP and above. That way, you will get separation of the overhead effects and the rear effects.

[@gjhunter9326]

Do you think placing the front and rear height speakers in the corners is more important than keeping them equidistant to the MLP? Also, if they are down firing in ceiling speakers and not aiming at the MLP, does that affect your findings or not?

[@TechnoDad]

Depends on where they are placed. Maybe equidistant is good if that’s what the space will allow.

[@gjhunter9326]

@@TechnoDad Lol, ok. Let me be a bit more specific. MLP is at 2/3 room length. Would you recommend putting the front heights equidistant from MLP or back to the front wall?

[@usmankhalid990]

Hey techno dad, so does this mean I should stick my rears in the corners of the room? Or do I just line up my rears with my front stage and basically put them across from wherever my left and right front speakers are?

[@TechnoDad]

I would put them above the mains.

[@usmankhalid990]

@@TechnoDad sounds good, so where ever my rear bed-layer speakers are, the rear heights go right above that. Thanks! 🙏

[@usmankhalid990]

@@TechnoDad so do the rear bedlayer speakers just sit across from the front left and right channel bedlayer speakers?

[@synergyxx]

Dumb question… Just to confirm, if you are doing a 5.1.4 setup you should do surround heights above your surround left and right speakers? Also, would a 5.1.6 work? There is no available back wall, but the ceiling does continue.

[@midevil1980]

I'm in the same position.

[@TechnoDad]

Well...that does make sense. However...when using surround height position, the way sounds are matrixed between the front height and rear height are not going to sound correct 100%. Maybe setting the rear height to top middle? That might work a bit better.

[@synergyxx]

@@TechnoDad Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!... Maybe I can pick up some Monoprice THX satellites and try out some different positions (and position settings in AVR) before turning my ceiling/walls into Swiss cheese lol. Also, I could always repurpose the Monoprice THX satellites to garage speakers with a little sub.

[@MCSpiritStudios]

@@synergyxx Ive found setting the tops to top front and top rear(not height) is what works best in 5.1.4, and placing the speakers about 2ft in front of and behind MLP and 20% of the room from the side walls to the MLP. This will put the MLP in an atmos bubble and will provide very good separation of atmos effects from fronts and surrounds while offering very good matrixing

[@GaryHuntPianoman]

Hey Daddyman ...Does this make a difference when I use Auro 3D also ?

[@TechnoDad]

This is essentially an Auro-3D layout except for the VOG will be matrix’d between the two middle heights. The middle heights would be best to be in ceilings pointing down at the MLP.

[@Proper49er]

I love taking myself down a virtual rabbit hole on this topic. I see why 7.4.6 is recognized as your theater selection preference as opposed to the 7.1.4 drawing with its flaws. The software must place the front height in the upper LR corners of the space. This is wrong in the drawing and software. The speakers in the 7.1.4 drawing are actually positioned closer to the height wide left and right but don’t act that way in the software. The software positions them incorrectly in the front of the physical space. 7.4.6 fixes the glitch in the matrix by actually placing a LRHeights in the front and the height wides act as they should. In a living room, a small room ( acoustically speaking)how do we compromise with 8’ ceilings? I don’t care buy my CD and figure it out! 😂

[@hdrfanboy9025]

Hello TD, can I ask your opinion? I have a 7.2.4 Martin Logan setup. FLR (60xti/Motion 50xti center) Motion fx front heights and surround back and sides. 8'' Martin Logan Atmos top middle speakers. Emotiva XMC-2 Emotiva XPA-11. My question is would it be better if I used rear heights or rear surround configuration? I truly appreciate your help in this endeavor, thank you.

[@spatel30]

@Tachno Dad, my receiver supports only four heights channels with 7 base layer channels. With 8 ft ceiling heights, which positions do you recommend for four heights channels with seating around 14-15 ft from the screen? I have about 5 ft space behind the seats.

[@granta73]

Great video - thanks for the thought provoking content. I have a question. Does the Dolby renderer send different signals to your speakers based on whether you tell your AVR you are using height speakers or top speakers? In other words will a top front right speaker get different signals sent to it by the renderer than a front height right speaker? 🤔

[@TechnoDad]

The renderer won’t know that distinction, it just sends sounds to that speaker when the object is placed in that location. Changing that designation in the AVR will make the AVR change its delay I would imagine, but not change the signal itself.

[@delacosta78]

​@@TechnoDadThat is correct for Dolby Atmos but not for DTS:X, I actually discovered recently that DTS:X sends the top information differently and I had to buy a new 5.1.2 receiver because my previous one was limited in that regard, I am still waiting for it and I will send you an email explaining in detail the reason why I had to replace the AVR and also why I will have to go from front height to top middle.

[@poinguan]

If I were to go for only 5.1.2, should I go for front height or top front?

[@krishnataveras8734]

So if I understood correctly. I dont have to worry about the 30 degree or 45 degree angles, just place the height speakers exactly above the bed layer and I should have a wonderful Atmos, Auro experience?

[@joentell]

You have to keep it within that 30°-45° range because if you go too high, you lose the coherence between your ear-level speaker and the height speaker.

[@usmankhalid990]

@@joentellhi Joe, so should I put my left channel and right channel 45 degrees off the MLP each? Just wondering if you and TD changed your setups to reflect 45 degree angles after making the spatial calibration toolkit given your findings about when something appears in the left or right channel. Just want to make sure my bedlayer is setup correctly before mirroring it with the heights.

[@krishnataveras8734]

​@@joentellmy ceiling is 7.5 feet tall should I still worried about the angles. I am still not sure about how to implement technodad's suggestion. Because it appears I just have to copy my bed layer up above.

[@baradhandhanapathy]

I totally agree with you. This is why I feel that in any given day Auro 3D is better than Dolby Atmos. The addition of an extra layer exponentially increases the intensity of immersion. I do reallt feel bad that Auro 3D doesn't get the credit it deserves. Dolby clearly has the edge through their aggressive marketing. Thank you for making this video, you have meticulously put together your careful observations.

[@Ninafan68]

So, according to the 3D picture, the bed layer is placed at the floor? So, much lower than ear level? If so, are the speakers angled up toward the listening position?

[@TechnoDad]

No, that’s just the ear level location…

[@dillon599]

I’m getting the Samsung 9500s rears it’s for my bedroom and my bed is pretty close to the back wall where the speakers are going just wondering how far away and height should they be my room is 10ftw by 12ftd my soundbar system will be 7.1.4

[@andreasfasekasch6633]

Hi, just for the right understanding. My MLP is about a third of my room. Where should I put my side surrounds? 80°, 110° or exactly at 90°. In your layout the 6 atmos speaker are front/rear heights and top middles? So you have compatibility to Auro3d with VOC. Although the position for the top middles are side heights??? thx ☺

[@HTadd1ct]

95-100 degrees

[@andreasfasekasch6633]

@@HTadd1ctok thx And the Atmos speaker heights and TM or all speaker tops ?

[@janthas]

@TechnoDad interesting take, what should be those speakers? In -ceiling facing down? Atmos speakers at an angle towards the MLP?

[@ecut1]

My LCR speakers are line arrays that span from about 2.5 feet off the floor to about a foot from the ceiling (center channel behind the screen). They are 4'6" tall line arrays. Would putting height speakers above the R and L work in this layout? There would essentially be no separation between the R/R height and the L/L height.

[@jefflinsk8032]

I think you've answered your own question...don't think it would work well.

[@MunKeeButt67]

I settled for a soundbar sub, and rear speakers 5.1.(2) set up for my lounge, because I only use Blu-ray, and have noticed most of them carry dts X as their only audio source. I'm not going to go with 4k discs, so this fits my audio needs while being aesthetically smaller than a full system. The dts sound fills the room better than the few Atmos discs I have. And as usual, I am the only one in the house that pores over these decisions. The .2 is in brackets because the q600b upfiring are half the power of the mains, and bring some atmosphere, but not height.

[@TechnoDad]

I completely understand your reasoning here. You have to do what's right for your room.

[@stephenperthwa]

I have a 7.2.4 setup and I’ve had to move the furniture around which means that my surrounds left and right now have the top front left and right ceiling speakers directly above them. I was going to use the Dolby angles etc to move the ceiling speakers forward but after watching this video am I correct in that you are suggesting where they are now is the more logical position? Would save me cutting more holes!

[@ZZ-ou7gp]

A reminder has been set ☺- You can do both by integrating design features so that they aid the sound and video, items in the room remain functional and also look nice and not like you are in a black coffin. I am glad you brought this subject up. Using common can get you results that deliver both, but of course if common sense was a currency we would all be rich. Love this video 👌

[@FURognar]

Its important to go through this thought process and fully understand what it is you are trying to accomplish before starting any kind of construction. I think the issue here is that people started building home theaters to include Atmos before we had all the information at hand. The first few years of Atmos installation was all basically beta-testing and experimemtation. The price of being an early adopter.

[@robertofleitas2612]

Hello, where can I download demos, movies or music in Dolby Atmos to test my setup (Denon x3800h with 5.2.4), thank you?

[@trastomania]

You are RIGHT. I have placed four atmos in the four corners aligned with the floor speakers and the Atmos sounds are BEST. I have placed at 45º and when a sound is in FRONT TOP, they sound from that point, not towards me. The problem is that you say about these people chatting in forums that they think that are engineers or something else and place the diagrams of Dolby over all, and they cannot discute it. I go to the BEST mix sound editing room here in Spain and there isn´t any theather that will mimic that experience that I feel, and that was about 14 years ago!. And they have placed the speakers LIKE YOU SUGGEST. A lot of them, of course, because want to mimic a theater enviroment (more of 30 speakers for sure). Only when I add my humble four atmos speakers following my ideas, not the Dolby specs, I feel PART of that experience I sense. So YES, you are RIGHT, sir!

[@AaronGoodTimes]

I would love to have a 7.1.6 system. Unfortunately my receiver can only handle 7.1.4 with an extra amp. Will be a while before I can get all the speakers but will see how it turns out at some point.

[@TechnoDad]

Yeah, they are pricey...but the Denon X6700H has dropped in price. That's the one I use for 7.1.6 - amzn.to/3VOLZsG

[@AaronGoodTimes]

@@TechnoDad Thanks very much

[@CaLiChAnS]

Now question @TechnoDad Should the heights 6 of them be pointed/ tilted at mlp or just straight across the room im looking at the Monolith by Monoprice THX Certified Satellite Speakers six of them and will place them as high as i can over the six base layer speakers

[@Scott-ew7nr]

Point the height speakers at a point above the MLP. The distance above the MLP that they should point at depends on the dispersion characteristics of the speaker and how much you care about enlarging the sweet spot. Those speakers have very good directivity, so as long as you keep them within 30deg of the MLP, you should be fine. Other speakers you might be limited to

[@Emperor36]

Techno Dad I have a question, I’m using a 9.2.4 system now. Should I ditch the extra wide channels and use the extra heights instead for Movies and Games?

[@Hi-levels]

Can you recommend a config for home theater 5.1.4 (upfiring atmos) but surrounds are also having atmos upfirings(9500swa) ??

[@jafo1701]

You also have to account distance and height of the wall. I have low ceilings in my home theater room, approximately 8 ft I think, and sitting position is about 10 feet, which is about 2/3rds distance of the entire room. Now I had front and rear height and ceiling mid atmos. The rear and mids sounded great, but with the low ceiling and distance the front heights sounded like there were just another set of front speakers. I eventually moved the rear and fronts to the ceilings, as once you choose one set of ceilings with the marantz av 10 they both have to be height or ceilings. So 6 ceiling atmos speakers now.

[@SaySomethingWorthHearing]

I don't see any receivers set up for 6 height speakers. I see 4 outputs, but not 6. How do you power the 5th and 6th speaker and make sure they're getting the correctly coded signal? Does this require a $20k receiver or what? Also, I had an Aperion audio 7.1 set up in my last house and was happy with their speakers. Are there any others out there on par with Aperion audio that I should take a look at? Thanks.

[@ringovski1980]

Good video, so I want to go to atmos from 5.1. Four height channels is enough right? Thanks from Australia

[@TechnoDad]

Yes, I would go four heights at the very least.

[@coadycarter9230]

If going 4 would it be better to go 2 in front 2 above or 2 front 2 back? Looking at 7.2.4 or 5.2.2 depending if I buy a separate 4 channel amp. If I go 5.2.2 should the uppers go in front or above?

[@usmankhalid990]

Hey Techno Dad, so should I do 45 degrees to the left and right speakers each based on your previous findings working with the atmos renderer?

[@TechnoDad]

I would do that!

[@usmankhalid990]

@@TechnoDad sounds good, thanks!! 🙏

[@Havanero52]

Great video do you see the new JBL AO 7100 hp?

[@julioaperales1228]

Thank you for your insights and the info. Now, my Denon is a 7.4.4 capable unit. My 4 height speakers are in ceiling coaxials put into acoustic tiles and are located closer to my seating position so I'm located between the square below them. Should I move the front heights to the top of the front mains and the other pair of rear heights on top of the rear surrounds, since I do not have provisions for a 3rd pair of height speakers? Thanks for your attention... My room is 23' x 13.5' x 9' all concrete with drop acoustic ceiling, one window and one door, just to give an idea and i am sitting around the center of the room...

[@RanjakarPatel]

This man is number one disgrace

[@julioaperales1228]

@@RanjakarPatel care to explain?

[@Mutation666]

In a 5.1.4 system when the seating is against the wall. For my .4 I clearly want front height, but does it make sense to put the 2nd set above the surrounds or behind the seating position in the corner of the wall to be rear height? (Spacing maybe 6" behind seat).

[@TechnoDad]

I would say behind the seating location

[@nonothing9685]

Great video! Your focus was more on the height speakers, but what do you think about the main bed layer? Shouldn't our 5/7 bed layer speakers be setup in a box format as well than instead of what dolby recommends? I've never understood why our rear or surround speakers should be so close to us in atmos. I think the ideal is a square box room, you sit in the middle. Speakers in every corner, both at ear level and height level. Then a main center channel.

[@FURognar]

If you only have 5, the surrounds are intended (by Dolby) to be more beside you and only a little bit behind you. Maybe 110° to 120°. When you have 7.1, the side surrounds move go 90° and the rear surrounds move to around 150° in general, the front mains should be the front wall, the rear surrounds should be the rear boundry and the side-surrounds should be exactly halfway between them. You could set up a 5.1 like a Quadrophonic setup with the addition of a center channel, but the rear surrounds being that far back has some weird psychoacoustic effects. Thats one of the reasons the rear surrounds are not used often for sustained playback.

[@clintstuckey]

Also acoustically you REALLY don’t want a square room with all equal sides.

[@TechnoDad]

Yes! I think it would be great to have the front L & R and Rear L & R in the corners.

[@Press-Play]

@@clintstuckey There is a rather square room of 8,1 x 7,2 meter x 2,55m height (or ratios of 3.18 x 2.82 x 1) in which there are no axial resonance modi below 182Hz, nor retromodi and also no other than axial modi below 165Hz

[@Press-Play]

@@FURognar the general laws of acoustics regarding boundary reflectios and interference at listenig level always apply, meaning in 2.0 or surround the spakers need to be away from the walls quite a bit (min 5ms of 90cm/3ft; preferably 10-20ms or ven further into the room - law of ellipses). This was proven by Jeremy Kipnis in his Beta studio, together with having a subwoofer per speaker , distanced no further apart than half the distance of the cut-off wavelength (ie. never in the corners of the room)

[@tobyhines7587]

Great information Techno Dad.I'm still using The Yamaha Rx 583 for 5.2.2. I went 4 channel in 1973/4 with 8 track tapes, anyone remember the 4 channel FM broadcast You needed 2 FM tuners.

[@TechnoDad]

Toby!!! Keep rocking that Yamaha…until the wheels fall off.

[@jupyder4838]

I had a friend telling me about this concept while I was upgrading from a .2 overhead to a .4 and I thought it was very interesting. I then found your channel and downloaded your test video that had sounds going straight up and down from the base speakers and it clicked for me. I know have all four overhead speakers directly above the front and surround speakers and it sounds fantastic. Thanks for pushing this topic, it makes perfect sense. Now I have to redo my living room....half the fun right? Right guys?

[@bigben9056]

so you dont have overhead effects and bad separation.remember to aim all speakers.damn people dont understand how human ears pick up sounds from above

[@FURognar]

@@bigben9056 Thats why you do 6 height channels. This guy is using SURROUND HEIGHTS and thus, have speakers close enough to put sounds directly overhead. Some Atmos processors will use Surround Heights with Atmos (Trinnov, Storm, D&M etc)

[@kuronekosan2830]

just upgraded to a 9.2ch reciever ..how do i place the ceiling speakers? the front height above the fronts and rear heights above side surround speakers? i have my side surround slightly behind at 110degree

[@TechnoDad]

If only having two height speakers, it's probably better to place them above your listening position.

[@kuronekosan2830]

@@TechnoDad im doing 5.1.4 and my mlp is 3ft away from the back wall..my side surrounds are slightly behind at 110degree .. where should the rear heights go? exactly above the side surrounds? or slightly behind?

[@TechnoDad]

@@kuronekosan2830 If that's the case, I would still put them above your listening position. Since you don't have front and rear heights, you will not be getting any front to back motion.

[@kuronekosan2830]

@@TechnoDad maybe I didn't explain well ..im doing front heights as well as rear heights i just dont have rear surround backs for the bed layer..only side surrounds..i know im supposed to have my front heights above my front speakers but what about rear heights where will they go as i dont have rear surround backs..above the side surrounds?

[@TechnoDad]

Oh, okay. I would put them behind a little bit

[@MagicTK-]

I completely agree. I am in the process of building my home theater, but currently I only have a 6.1 receiver and separate amps. Often I even turn off my center because I have such an amazing phantom center. This absolute proof that the same can happen with the height speakers. Heck even with just my two front towers playing some of the 8D tracks on KZbin, I can even hear height. Whenever I am ready to buy a new receiver, I will have pre-wires for ceiling speakers, but i will probably experiment with speaker placement and settings. Will you have any more info for settings/adjustments for the height channels? Or is it as intuitive as I'm thinking...? Thanks!

[@TechnoDad]

If you are going to experiment with height speakers, I would look at my Speaker on a Stick design to test out height speaker locations - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmixiKebgrWCa6Msi=WD4m1phNIxrerZT9

[@offdacorner]

Performance all day every day. Attractive theater style seating combined with awesome lighting definitely grasps my attention. But beautiful video on a large screen combined with immersive sound is what blows me away.

[@TechnoDad]

Awesome!

[@doncicio895]

A ja mam pytanie czy aby głośniki Atmos pozwólcie że tak je nazwę nie są po to aby właśnie uzupełniać dźwięk tych regularnych stacjonarnych... Czyli jeżeli słyszę w prawym rogu samolot i on przelatuję nademną to niema głośnik za zadnie wypełnić jakby lukę tym atmosem

[@meade916]

damn, I just left a comment and came back a few minutes later it was gone. Did I get deleted? If so why?

[@TechnoDad]

Not sure. You're the second person to say that. I do have a filter on...let me check if you hit one of the no no words. But I don't delete comments.

[@meade916]

@@TechnoDad looks like my 2nd reply to you got removed also....crazy.

[@TechnoDad]

@@meade916 It's pretty odd. I got an email about this reply, but nothing else. I usually get an email about each comment. If you write it again, copy it before you hit comment or reply, or email me the comment. I'm not 100% sure what's happening.

[@RavageReeves]

how high are your 4 surrounds? and how high do you have the 6 atmos speakers above them. I have to have my 4 surrounds a far bit higher the ear level and almost speakers are 30 cm above them. i had to use angles and ceiling mount the atmos speakers as there isnt much space directly above the surround speakers.

[@TechnoDad]

Hi! My ear level speakers are all at the same height. All tweeters are at 47" off the ground, right where my ears sit. My height speakers are 9 feet off the ground, so about 5 feet higher than the speaker tweeters.

[@midevil1980]

Finally!! I've been waiting for a video like this forever. Amazingly simple and logical topic. Thanks, Channa! 🍻

[@TechnoDad]

Thank you! I've been "trying" to make this for a year now...I guess it was the right time...

[@midevil1980]

@@TechnoDad - Absolutely! Thank you, sir! 🍻

[@isak6626]

I agree. This is the best video you've made, period 😊. Great summary!

[@TechnoDad]

@@isak6626 Thank you so much!

[@ShortCircuitPS2]

I enjoyed this video. What are your thoughts on ceiling height? I totally get your thinking regarding setting up a theater like the dolby renderer. However, my ceiling is only 7.5ft heigh.

[@TechnoDad]

You may only need four height speakers with that low of a ceiling. Are your tweeters on the ear level at about 3 - 4 feet off the ground?

[@jsclayton]

@@TechnoDadWould/can those 4 height speakers be on the front/back walls like in the 7.1.6 pdf? Or more “traditionally” placed 30-45 degrees around the MLP? Thinking about that helicopter example ands keeping it in the front of the room.

[@MiG-40i]

i got that and agree... and by watching i noticed, that i mounted everything like you said about 4 years ago😂 why did i do this? because i did not look at the atmos recommendation. i did it because that made the most sense to me. but what about angles of the top speaker. do you think they should all pointed to the MLP via pivoting ect. ? exept the middle tops?

[@sparkiegaz3613]

13.2 does me , it took a while but base level are all at ear level once seated, my height speakers are all same level and the top speaker is above my seat and it blows me away.. 😊

[@TechnoDad]

Nice!!!

[@FURognar]

good to hear other people are having an elevated experience with this setup (pun intended)

[@thesaskatchewankid]

Top speaker? Like voice of God channel? What speaker placement are you using, exactly?

[@BenjiGator23]

Nice video! Question would this also be applicable to DTS X content?

[@TechnoDad]

I don't know as I don't make DTS:X, but I think it would be pretty similar. I don't think DTS:X can go higher than 7.1.6. DTS:X Pro, however, can go way beyond that speaker layout.

[@badonkadonkskidz]

Hey T.D. What crossover point is recommended for atmos? Is there much bass, or even mid bass? Would having an 8” compared to a 6.5” make a huge difference? Maybe you could make a video discussing these.

[@flyers10az]

What's the benefit of the calibration disc compared to using Dirac or Audyessy MultiEQ-X?

[@welderfixer]

I use the disk to check to see if the "auto cal" got it right and to use the disk to make corrections. It's nice to use the disk to listen to Channa's objects move smoothly from speaker to speaker once all of the speaker placements and distances are correctly set. It can be done without the disk by setting the AVR to output all speakers stereo and listen for echos. Then the task is to figure out which speaker is set wrong. I'm surely losing hair trying to get my system just right. But, is there a "just right"?

[@lgmnowkondo938]

so, where do we put the speakers?

[@valenriquez8882]

Hello! Is it worth buying jamo s809, over the s807 or s805 if I will be using them 95% of the time for movies and they will be set to small in my receiver? I have two Klipsch subs.

[@TechnoDad]

I’ve never heard those speakers, so I really can’t say…

[@valenriquez8882]

@@TechnoDad whaaat? You have them in your thumbnail of this video. The towers next to the big screen. I thought it was your home theater

[@TechnoDad]

@@valenriquez8882 I didn’t make the thumbnail…

[@jimlev]

Are you saying place all speakers nearer to the ceiling? I have a 5.1.2 Atmos Onkyo Recevier..

[@jeremys4770]

so, would you recommend 5.1.4 over 7.1.4?

[@MegaPisar]

Hello sir, can you guide me little bit, I have one Yamaha home theater system rx v4a which comes with speakers and subwoofer also, I want to change my speakers to bookshelf one I don’t want the tall speakers, what will you recommend me !

[@TechnoDad]

Did you have a price range in mind?

[@MegaPisar]

@@TechnoDad not more then 1 k $

[@smbaldwin8364]

Does the atmos mix transition as object moves front to back with multiple speakers or do all get the same signal all the time. Do the front speakers phase out as object gets to middle and the middle phase out as object transitions to rear overhead atmos speakers to create an accurate sound of linear movement up just in fronts then just to mids and finally to overheads/rears only? This would be true reference atmos and support multiple (6) speaker layout. Just a thought perhaps this already occurs. If not, Techno Dad is the phase transition viable? Do you and think you could engineer this effect? Perhaps I’m a doofus! Anyway thanks for doing what you do!

[@lbudt29]

My system is a 5.1 at ear level, but I think you're correct. Multi channel music is also making similar advances as they are moving the sound stage around the room for some arrangements.

[@TechnoDad]

Thanks!

[@calindor23]

For a 7.1.6 setup as you describe, I"m assuming you'll need a pretty specialized/advanced amp, what do you recommend? or are there tricks to making existing systems that support fewer ceiling speakers support more?

[@pauledwards8721]

Have you played much with the top / front height settings of speakers in the AVR? What you’re describing about 11mins in seems like a processor mapping thing? (With the helicopter going up)

[@TechnoDad]

At the end of the day, the speaker can try to “fake” the location of the object, but it won’t give you a better experience as placing the speaker in the correct location.

[@RichardMiller-z8l]

I am building a dedicated room in my custom home build. The room will be 18' wide and 23'-6" deep with 10' ceiling. I will have second row seating which will be 15" above the first row. I plan on a 11.4.6 setup using JBL Synthesis in-wall speakers and a Trinnov Altitude processor. How would you recommend placing the 6 ceiling mounted Atmos speakers in this type of configuration?

[@jsclayton]

Think it would be worth returning the refurb X3800H for a refurb X6700H to have the extra channels available as I build out my theater? I've got 5.1 with 4 speakers ready to go up for heights, using them as heights instead of tops would actually help maximize PJ screen size since they would be out of the way. Would you put a great base layer over any Atmos? Thanks!

[@TechnoDad]

I suppose. Depends on the price difference…

[@David.Murdoch]

Huh. I thought Atmos systems map the location of your speakers in the room and can adjust the volume of multiple speakers to create the 3d soundstage. Does this not actually work? Or is it just down to how well reflections are treated in room?

[@DarrenKrusi]

Watch the fireballs scene of Dungeons and Dragons near the end and tell me if it sounds right when the fireball hits the building up on the top left there.

[@TechnoDad]

My 4K Copy of that is at my old house...maybe I can stream it? I'll have to see.

[@musicjewell9329]

good movie

[@brianschulz6462]

Maybe I missed it or misunderstood. Do the atmos speakers laid out like this fire down or do they get aimed into the seating position?

[@TechnoDad]

The top middles would be aimed down but the front and rear heights should be aimed to above the mlp.

[@uzcateguipedromiguel]

Great effort making the video, but after trying both options with front and rear heights, and in ceiling I prefer the home theater gurus option with in ceiling speakers. To me it was a big difference. 8’ wasn’t tall enough to noticed a good separation between base layer and front and rear height

[@joentell]

First, I'm glad you found something that works well for you. You will hear more sound when a speaker is physically closer to you, no doubt. The tradeoff is less accurate positioning of height objects based on the Atmos renderer and coherence between the ear-level speakers and heights. Just like stereo imaging breaks when placed too close or too far, the same thing happens with height speakers.

[@mt8956]

I have a 5.1 receiver thinking of disconnecting 4 speakers and keeping the center and subwoofer. Plus connect my 4 ceiling speakers since am gonna have space on my receiver. In my living room the max I can probably do is a 5.2.4. Just need a bigger receiver

[@schemkesa]

Hmm, so yes, my back surround and sidesurrounds are not placed on ear level, why? Because it's my living room. Just not gonna happen. So it's not exactly how the artists intended it to be placed, but hey, it sounds 500x better than those goofy soundbars, and it's not the end of the world that your soundstage is some what lifted

[@schemkesa]

Ow I totally agree with TD about height channels. I have just 2 height speakers, but they,re NOT in my ceiling but right above my front speakers. If I going to place back height surrounds they will be right above my back surrounds

[@TechnoDad]

Living rooms are pretty rough. I know mine in the last home was a tough place to put an Atmos setup, but I was able to get 5.1.4.

[@HTadd1ct]

the whole intendtion here is for you to do whatever means necessary to do it correctly. what is wrong with you?

[@randolphsettgast12]

⁠@@TechnoDadso in a 5.1.4 were your height above your base speakers?

[@robert71457]

I believe thats what hes saying, mirroring the speakers!​@@randolphsettgast12

[@عبرالرحمنسعود]

Hi.. When will the next update be released for the avr-x3800h device.. to support 360 reality audio??. Please respond to me 🙏🙏

[@TechnoDad]

The Sony thing? Not sure. I’ll have to look it up….

[@عبرالرحمنسعود]

@@TechnoDad Thanks 🙏🤩

[@ericspear3610]

I just watched your video on my home theater system. I have six up firing speakers. My system pretty much followed your Atmos demo. Not exactly, but sounded pretty close. The sound seemed to go up the front wall and not towards me during those examples. The sound seemed to be pretty darn close to your demo so I'm pretty happy about that. I have a Nakamichi Dragon 11.4.6 home theater system and tuned my system with your Spatial Audio Calibration Tool as best I could. Made a real difference in how my system sounds so thank you for that tool kit! It may not be a perfect system, but the Atmos is way better than my Bose 900 Soundbar system it replaced. I think it has more to do with having more power to bounce those sounds off the ceiling better and having six speakers to do it with.

[@deegates6506]

Sound advice. We merge what we know from both disciplines into a new way of listening in a better immersive listening environment. With the added channel, do you need a processor to handle that or run the new channel in series with the front atmos?

[@sherazdotnet]

Respect. Definitely something to try and see if the difference is big. To be clear, just for the bed layer, you'd move surround to the middle of room and surround back to the back corners?

[@TechnoDad]

I put the side surrounds on the sides of the MLP and surround back to the back corners. Keep the speakers in line though…

[@markhammon1299]

That's great if you have 7.1.6 but many systems are 7.1.4 so how do you set that where you can't go one for one straight up and down?

[@Geerladenlad]

Is the height configuration different for Auro 3D?

[@TechnoDad]

It’s pretty similar 😉

[@timothymathetes]

You is da man TD. I will remember this stuff when I get my room.

[@TechnoDad]

Thank you Timothy!!

[@timothymathetes]

@@TechnoDad you're welcome

[@jamesrobinson1579]

Interesting take. I am (counter to your assertion LOL) running a 9.2.6 system in my (heavily treated) living room... I experimented a LOT with placement and ultimately my 6 overhead speakers (SVS Prime Elevations) are directly above my L, R, LS, RS, LR, and RR speakers at the top of the walls. (which is NOT an option my Anthem AVM 70 has LOL so I lied and said they're in the ceiling). After running ARC multiple times after any small change I am completely delighted with the results... Any friends or family who I demo the system for are astounded by how detailed Atmos placing of sounds is and how seamless any panning sound is. That said... I only ever listen to music through straight L&R or if it's heavy live music and I feel rowdy maybe L&R plus subs. 😉 Can't quite abide the multi-channel music... even live I don't listen from the stage... Music naturally comes from in front of me into my two ears so it's easily reproduced by two speakers in front of me... but like you said "you do you" 😅.

[@Mad5cout]

I agree with the logic but recommend you follow up with some speaker form-factor recommendations and perhaps left-right placement recommendations. The dots you have in the graphic you are using to demonstrate your point would suggest that you don't recommend any in-ceiling channels put rather would use angled atmos speakers at the front side - directly to the side or slightly in front of and to the side of the listening position, and to the back and side of the listening position. Or would you use in-ceiling for the center atmos channels?

[@TechnoDad]

I understand what you’re saying. Yes, I would recommend front and rear heights with small bookshelf speakers mounted up high on the walls almost in the corners. The ideal middle heights would be in ceiling firing downward

[@Antimonkat]

The official atmos layout gives me original Dolby Surround vibes, like just put some speakers there to give you a vague sensation of height, and sound coming from above, and your suggestion is more of the placing sound accurately exactly where it's encoded to live.

[@dr.tissonjob5707]

I've read that in an acoustically well treated room with multiple seats, dipole speakers are good as right and left surrounds. How true is this? Please guide.

[@rajmohanpm8189]

dear Techno Dad, this information is good for 7.1.6, but what about 7.1.4? avr like denon 3800, is more economical and i assume more DIY s are on this configuration, can you suggest front height-back height speaker vs mid height-back height speaker..? thank you

[@TechnoDad]

I would go front height/rear height for a 7.1.4 setup.

[@rajmohanpm8189]

​@@TechnoDad thank you for your suggestion ❤❤❤.. Much appreciated 👍

[@rajmohanpm8189]

@@TechnoDad thank you. i will do it and update you.

[@HTadd1ct]

​@@TechnoDadwhen you do this there's a giant hole above absence of sound especially in larger rooms. That's why the 45 and 135 degree placement is very important.

[@ealanosborne]

The world is a sphere and Atmos is a cuboid. Got it. And hot damn, that extreme close-up STILL looked 4K crispy. Gotta love that FX3, baby! 😄

[@TechnoDad]

Ayyy! Yeah, that with the 35mm GM lens is pretty sharp…but even if it wasn’t…”I wouldn’t care…”

[@AudioGuyBrian]

So what Blu-Ray or source material you can play at home has 7.1.6 sound on it? Most I see are 7.1 Atmos or DTS MA.

[@TechnoDad]

It doesn't really matter channel wise. It's just about coverage. So if the mixer puts objects in a front height, middle height, or rear height location, your speakers will be able to cover that sound with 6 heights. Does that make sense?

[@AudioGuyBrian]

@@TechnoDad What AVR or audio system supports individual outputs to all those channels. The only one I have seen is the Denon AVR-X8500H but then you need some kind of Atmos decoder that has RCA outputs of just the 4 height signals as well as all the other channels. What gear does that for home use?