Movies made sound with a light bulb: Sound-on-film

[@OVMEBReed]

I worked for 9 years back in the 1970's as a sound engineer in a film laboratory. I spent many hours recording optical sound tracks for 16mm film. As for the nice dark track on the prints; the film processor had a thickened developer that was applied to just the sound track area by a narrow wheel. This allowed the sound track area to retain the silver and make a nice dark track. The same was done for reversal films. It was important to have the track be as sharp as possible. While recording the sound negative, some of the light would scatter into the unexposed area. The same would happen when the negative was printed onto the final print. We would run exposure tests to get this effect to cancel and leave a nice sharp sound image on the print. If it was wrong, noise and intermodulation distortion would result. Another point you many notice is that the slits narrow down during the quiet parts. A DC bias was placed on the galvanometer to keep it as narrow as possible for quiet sections and then open up for the louder parts. This greatly reduced the film grain noise during projection. Great video as usual.

[@TechnologyConnections]

Amazing, thank you so much for sharing!

[@MRblazedBEANS]

Super cool! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@singerofsongss]

This is so cool! I am studying to become a materials engineer, specifically in semiconductors and chip manufacturing, and I’m fascinated by how much of the process you’re describing translates to modern day photolithography and deposition onto chips. We have to make the same kinds of design choices to make sure that certain features are extra sharp or whatever. Thanks for sharing!

[@theogcritic]

@@TechnologyConnections It was possible for the sound developer to leak into the picture area, so there was a little squeegee in the film processor to keep the two separated. If the squeegee was misaligned or wore out, it would contaminate the picture area, making the edge of picture way too contrasty and ruining the print.

[@OVMEBReed]

@@theogcritic No squeegee. The developer was thickened with a chemical called Gantrez. The wheel was a fraction of an inch from the film surface and a bead of developer would just bridge the gap in a nice even flow onto just the sound track area. Actually, it was a pain to maintain. Temperature or humidity could affect it and if the processor, which ran the film at a continuous rate through the chemical baths, stopped or changed speed, the developer would run into the picture area and create a big black smear. Of course, that print would be ruined.

[@0ADVISOR0]

De-synchronizing your voice while pointing out the de-synchronization issues of old phonographs in conjunction with projectors, was a very nice touch.

[@russellgeisthardt9828]

Also adding in the cue dots to the same section

[@bozimmerman]

Not thinking, I immediately reached for my mouse to stop the video and resume it. De-synced audio happens when watching my plex server sometimes, and that's how you fix it.

[@chachhi2011]

yes i noticed it as well

[@RonnieBarzel]

I was already thinking about how I needed to clear out the app cache and restart my Fire TV stick, before I realized what was going on.

[@ConfuSomu]

@@bozimmerman you sure that your plex server isn't film reel based? :P

[@AshleyFoxo]

I feel Alec is going to slam a full IMAX projection system onto that table next month.

[@jbs256]

I want to see that too! On his desk made me ROTFLMAO. The poor desk, probably will need a crane and open the roof and hoist it in…

[@SplicesAndCelluloid]

@@jbs256 there wouldn't be a desk anymore. Even the small ones would take up the whole thing :P

[@jbs256]

@@SplicesAndCelluloid I know, hence the crane and cutting off Alec’s roof. Though just dropping it in the same location would effectively guide its way to his basement studio . I assume the Acme Crane Co. would be hired. LOL

[@supersat]

"... and through the magic of buying TWO of them..."

[@MrHack4never]

@@supersat My first thought was about 3D movies My second thought was about the hell that it would be to synchronise both frames, and keeping them synchronised

[@wky411]

As someone that almost always watches with closed captions on, I appreciate all the extra work that goes into adding those in. I especially liked the captions during rewind

[@fwiffo]

I had to scroll to find someone else who noticed them.

[@HoopleBogart]

there are dozens of us!

[@wyattmanhabel644]

Same

[@simpli_A]

Some of those jokes made me laugh more than the video itself [those trademark projector noises] was probably my favorite

[@simpli_A]

Nevermind i hadn’t gotten to the rewind part yet… that definitely takes the cake

[@rogermwilcox]

When I saw _Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan_ in a movie theater in 1982, the projectionist missed one of the reel changes, and the movie ended (and the lights came up automatically) RIGHT in the middle of the heart-rending Spock-is-dying scene. Nothing kills the mood faster. Among the groans heard in the audience, someone called out, "Well, that's it. They ran out of money." (Referring to the film's producers.)

[@Pauldjreadman]

Ran out of money lol

[@perrybrown4985]

Very occasionally, the reels would get mixed up too - that can sure make for a confusing plot...

[@TheRightNut]

This happened to me during Power Rangers the Movie (I assure you it was to make fun of it) when Ivan ooze breaks into Zordon's chamber at the start. Kinda good timing tbh since it was like Ivan broke the film.

[@SaiMorphX]

odd that the lights would come on automatically, it's possible, I only worked with reel to reel a few times taking over another theater for someone, I can't remember what would happen if we missed switching projectors. they are all set up different! with a platter system that I'm used to it was a little strip of metallic tape on the last reel, that tripped a sensor to turn the lights on.

[@BierBart12]

That's a joke my dad has made many times since then lmao

[@fellvarg]

Deeply appreciate the de-sync and drift moments in the said explanation moments! Always wonderful!

[@mincos_outon]

about 9:50 for anyone who didn´t noticed this detail

[@ddanielsandberg]

I had an OCD meltdown and had to open another box of chocolates for comfort. 😁

[@matsv201]

I got a flashback to early computer video that often had this problem

[@loganricherson]

Thought I was going crazy lol. Thanks for letting me know I'm not

[@UrbanPanic]

When Alec was about to do the de-sync part I was all "Yeah. I know the trick he's about to pull, and will be disappointed if he doesn't, cause it would be so on brand." But then once the drift part came up less than a minute later, I was like "Did he mess up the... oh. wait. Got me." Well played.

[@brianhawthorne7603]

I haven’t worked as a projectionist since 1984, but when that cue mark popped up, the countdown timer started in my head and I switched to the next projector with my hands just as you had that cut. You freaked me out! Thanks!

[@cowboyfrankspersonalvideos8869]

Three stories: In the late 1960s, I managed the AV department in my high school. I also ran Bell and Howell projectors, all though newer than yours. After a while, I got to where I could change reels and get the next reel going in under 15 seconds. If I could get two projectors, the audience could hardly tell when I switched, except for the fact I was standing in the middle of the classroom. During the same period, my Father was a photographer for the Smithsonian Institution. One project he was involved in was to try to reproduce photographically some of Alexander Bell's original optical sound disk experiments. They were trying to retrieve the sound without doing any damage to the originals. I don't think that method worked, otherwise I think dad would have been more exited about it. My dad was also into 8mm movies. He eventually obtained equipment to place the magnetic stripe along the edge between the sprocket holes and the edge of the film. There was a problem though. This made that side of the film thicker and caused the picture to be out of focus across the screen. Then someone came out with a device which would carve a groove under where the stripe would sit to flatten out the film. The device was basally just a slot with a tiny chisel which scraped the grove. The trademark name was "Cut-A-Rut" made by R.& D. Carnall & Company.

[@xpehkto]

The another advantage of DTS's off-film approach that you didn't mention is an ability to switch soundtrack language without changing the film, which made it very useful in countries where movies could be released in different language versions.

[@poochyenarulez]

I knew there were more advantages to that but couldn't think what off the top of my head. Thats a fantastic advantage.

[@syrus3k]

Indeed, DTS was really the best option though it was probably more expensive.

[@frejbow]

Thus in countries where dubbing is the norm, showing a movie once in original language became feasible for theaters as they no longer needed to ship the entire film (which was expansive). Though there was always confusion when the title wasn't original.

[@deeiks12]

Yes and it gave studios more time to work on the sound since prints could be made and distributed without the audio being ready. Analog fallback was used for bigger productions but at least these couple of local features i managed to work on before we went all digital had only DTS audio.

[@mattgeek49]

Also cartoons could have different language versions easily made maybe even unofficial translations could be made later in the movies life. Somewhat like people are transcribing movies and making subtitle files nowadays but with actual sound

[@TheMan83554]

I love that you edited in all the little analogue cues into the video. Very well done.

[@harriehausenman8623]

It alsmost seems like some 'effort' went into this *looking at the calendar* No, not November anymore 😄😉

[@richjamjam]

And the out of sync sound! He's awesome isn't he.

[@darksu6947]

@@richjamjam The out of sync sound really bothers me. It makes my brain feel like it has a short circuit 😆

[@doubledarefan]

@@darksu6947 No disassemble Johnny 5!

[@thanksfernuthin]

Did anyone else notice he put the black blob in the upper right hand corner of his video several minutes before he showed that was the way it let the projectionist know to switch reels?

[@_EVANERV_]

I love it when you are explaining the process of audio video syncing, the section is intentionally off-sync.

[@SRQmoviemaker]

It's the little things like this that make this channel one of my favorites.

[@jeffmcdonald730]

There are a few reel change warnings interspersed as well for our enjoyment.

[@Iamdebug]

Indeed, perfectly well exampled with the additional side effect of making me think my computer hit a sudden load and the GPUs were busy again...

[@RockyPeroxide]

I was pretty high while watching, and I had to rewind a couple of times to catch all the info.

[@Astrorenity]

@@RockyPeroxide I am glad I'm not alone on this one 😂😂 high as pie so got confused easily 🤣

[@MadScientist512]

20:53 "Code unto others as you would have others code unto you." Programming parable soundly stood the test of time. :)

[@Jon7763]

i've been a programmer for over 20 years, i've never heard that before until today, i understand the sentiment, but I've never heard it worded that way

[@sinedn]

Would love to find that complete film, that little snippet looked kinda like a weird modern-old-timey parody mentioning something that didn't really exist back then, with some Fallout vibes...

[@CinemaSynesthesia]

Great video! A few things that might be of interest: - Magnetic sound on film was more of a feature of cinema sound than you might have realised. When CinemaScope premiered in 1953, the wide image was only half of the selling point - the other was the 4 channel high fidelity soundtrack, which was achieved by putting 4 magnetic strips on the edges of the film. This 4 channel layout (Left, Centre, Right, Surround) is what Dolby would emulate when they came up with their Dolby A encoding system utilising the optical soundtrack. (btw Stereo sound for cinema has always meant at least 4 channels, not 2 as is the case in the home). The original Cinemascope was also a wider ratio (2.55:1) than what became the 'Scope standard (1.35:1) because it originally widened the image into the previous optical soundtrack area. This "Mag-strip" was also utilised for the 70mm format, with 6 channels recorded onto the edges of the film. 70mm never had an optical soundtrack. Even once filming natively for 70mm became a rarity, big films were still often optically 'blown up' onto 70mm release prints pretty much purely to take advantage of the better soundtrack. 5.1 in the layout we know it today was already in cinemas since 1979 thanks to 6-track mag strip 70mm when Apocalypse Now premiered. Also, it sounds awesome. - When doing traditional double-projector presentation, projectionists would often put some splicing tape on the edge of the film in the lead up to a reel change - the clacking sound the tape would make as it passed through the rollers / gate would serve as an audible warning that the reel was soon to end. - SDDS utilised ATRAC encoding - the same compression format Sony had invented for the MiniDisc! Also, whilst it was 8 channels in its premiere format (which added two more channels behind the screen - the same as the original Todd AO 70mm Format), SDDS also had a standard 5.1 mode. For many years prints with all 3 soundtrack formats like the trailer you have were very common. What was less common was studios opting to upmix to the full 8 channel format. The advantage of having those extra 2 screen channels is again being utilised by Dolby Atmos. - DTS didn't ever utilise higher capacity DVD Roms. However part of the original design of the system had allowed the timecode to also be used to trigger in-theatre effects. And from memory there was also provisions in the DTS bitstream itself to accomodate triggering other than the soundtrack. For this reason, DTS did get some limited use in special venue scenarios. It was also the only one of the 3 digital sound formats that had a 70mm version. Which was easy because the SMPTE timecode was just added to a 70mm print.

[@SilentRacer911]

I love how he always sticks in a little tidbit about Disney lately

[@davidfaraday7963]

The initial release of the Ken Russel film of "Tommy", the rock opera from The Who, used a system called "Quintaphonic" created by sound engineer John Mosely. This used a combination of a Sansui QS matrix quadraphonic system (for left and right front plus left and right back) with a discrete centre channel. The resulting three channels of audio (Lt and Rt from the QS encoder plus the centre channel) were recorded on three of the four tracks on a stripped 35 mm print. DBX noise reduction was used on these three channels. This created what in modern terminology would be called a 5.0 system. "Tommy" was released in early 1975, a few months before the first Dolby Stereo release, which was of another Ken Russel film "Lisztomania". Curiously the original Dolby Stereo cinema processor, the CP100, was designed to facilitate its use for Quintaphonic playback. By swapping the three Dolby Cat-22 A-type noise reduction modules for the mechanically and electrically interchangeable DBX K9-22 module (yes it really was called that!) and connecting a QS decoder to terminals provided on the CP100. After "Tommy" the Quintaphonic system was never used again, it joined Disney's "Fantasound" system (used for the initial release of "Fantasia") as a "one-film wonder".

[@matthewbestdfghy]

I ran a Norelco DP70 for Wehrenberg theaters in Missouri it was probably the best film projector ever made.

[@sguttag]

Near miss @CinemaSynesthesia. 70mm did have an optical (variable density) format with Fox's Grandeur. It was also 4-perfs/side per frame. Stereo for cinema always meant at least 3-channels, not 4. The surround channel started out as an "effects" channel and some titles omitted them and some 35mm magnetic prints omitted the surround stripe. Later DTS units (XD10 and XD20 could do higher channel counts). You can also have multiple DTS players track off of one reader to expand channel count. And, while they never did change their disc types, the later units could ingest via USB (that fancy new thing) and later software versions of the later units could also exchange content via network.

[@davidfaraday7963]

@@sguttag Fox Grandeur was an entirely different format from modern 70 mm film. The perforation pitch was greater than the 64 to the foot of 35 mm which is also used by modern 70 mm film. Modern 70 mm film is actually based on another failed wide-screen format from around 1930, Paramount's 65 mm format. When Todd AO were starting work on developing their "Cinerama through one hole" format they acquired the cameras which had been built for this system, which is why negative film for 70 mm is actually 65 mm. Print film had an additional 2.5 mm added each side to make room for the magnetic stripes (two tracks are recorded between the perforations and the edge of the film on each side, one between the perforations and the image on each side). Early Cinemascope films with an "effects" track used a 12 kHz tone recorded on that track together with the audio. The absence of that tone muted the relevant amplifier so that audiences wouldn't be disturbed by hiss when there was no "effects" recorded. Early Dolby Stereo films also didn't have a surround channel.

[@tadonplane8265]

This made me nostalgic, I was in AV club in HS in the early 70s. We had a full auditorium with a projection booth, in it was a 16mm RCA Porto-Arc projector from the 50s. It was hand thread with a separate lamp house containing an arc lamp. A transformer that looked like an arc welder lived on the floor underneath the projection stand which powered the lamp. The projectionist had to learn to manually strike an arc to get it started. A clock mechanism fed the carbon rods together at the rate they burned away and a prism in the side of the lamp house projected an image of the arc onto a glass scale so that the projectionist could monitor the proper gap between the rods to ensure that the adjustable clock speed stayed correct. If the clock speed was too slow the gap got wide and the picture went dim and turned yellow. If the speed was too fast the gap narrowed causing the picture to dim and turn blue. Properly adjusted the projector produced a really beautiful and very bright picture. Each year our club would rent a feature film and charge admission to a “movie night” as a fundraiser. 16mm features came on two huge reels, we couldn’t show a feature without a break because we had one projector. Instead we watched for the cue marks and switched to a slide projector that contained an “intermission” slide. The tail out of these films was black so that the projectionist didn’t have to close the window on the film projector, the slide projected right over the blackout giving enough time to kill the arc. We also had a hand cranked rewinder that was much faster than the projector rewind. I absolutely loved being a projectionist and got really good at it. That quirky sound of a 16mm optic soundtrack always brings back memories.

[@joekelly7505]

I got to operate 35mm Peerless Magnarc lamp houses in college. They would drift, too, so I'd have to adjust them every couple of minutes.

[@IstasPumaNevada]

Wow, that arc lamp management sounds wild! And very neat.

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

@@IstasPumaNevada It sounds really crazy, especially considering that František Křižík had automatic regulator for arc lamps patented already in 1880.

[@djmips]

That sounds like a very simple setup to our town drive-in during that same time period. Carbon and lamp and intermission music and slides suggesting you but something from the concession stand.

[@tadonplane8265]

@@DreitTheDarkDragon you inspired me to look up Křižík. He was quite the inventor and engineer but I’m having trouble finding out how his automatic arc lamp worked. Once the clock was properly adjusted on our projector it held very well. A set of new carbon rods would just cover the biggest reel of film. So a two reel feature consumed two sets of new rods. But we also projected many shorts for particular assemblies during school so we had leftover partially used rods. It took some judgement to know if a short rod could last through a short film. It was no fun having the lamp go out in the middle of a film.

[@daar1113]

I was a projectionist back in the early 90's and I remember when we got the Dolby Digital and DTS systems retrofitted to our projectors. We never got the Sony system though. The systems would instantly fail-over to the analog track if the digital signal experienced temporary corruption and switch back as soon as it got a good digital signal again. And yes, you could totally hear the difference when that happened but at least the audio didn't completely drop out if too much dust got on a section of digital squares. Also, try pointing an infrared remote at the light sensor behind the sound drum and press one of the buttons. You'll get a nice burst of digital noise pulses!

[@cmsch180]

We had all 3 at the theater I was a projectionist at. The SDDS system was really unreliable, since the soundtracks were right on the edges where the rollers contact the film. any amount of dust and it'd lose sync. Dolby and DTS were WAY more reliable

[@MrStimpanzee]

Man, I totally remember that happening during movies in the 90s and 2000s. Neat to know why!

[@mromutt]

@@MrStimpanzee I was thinking the same thing haha, now we know what was happening XD

[@subwaygaragemusic]

There's a reason Paramount calls SDDS "Still Doesn't Do Sh*t"

[@plonk420]

2000s projectionist here. SDDS seemed to mainly just be AMC. i was at Carmike. tho long after i left, i guess AMC bought Carmike. and i got a notice that my identity got stolen from Carmike records 🤣

[@mikenco]

I went into this video thinking it "wasn't for me", but the 40 minutes flew by and I found it all genuinely fascinating. Part of my job over two decades ago was splicing damaged film in a museum on these little displays. Everything in this video answered so many questions that I didn't know that I wanted answering! Thank you T-shirt-Tweed-jacket-guy! New sub!

[@grn1]

I didn't even realize it was 40 minutes. The only videos Alec's produced/produces that I don't care for are the sights and sounds ones he does on Connextras (some folks love them). Other than those everything he produces has been great so I don't even look at the time stamp unless I'm getting ready for bed.

[@jacobbaer785]

Alec's Christmas present to me is the knowledge of where the word "footage" comes from

[@nayhem]

And "soundtrack", though implied.

[@uzetaab]

and don't forget "flicks"

[@gameworkerty]

I've seen footage

[@Gzalo]

Fun fact, in Spanish, French and other languages from countries that use the metric system, it's called "metraje", "métrage". Like "footage" but with meters instead :P

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

Can't wait to use that fact.

[@Darkmatterdwarf]

Another fact that is often overlooked in the states with DTS is that having the audio on a separate medium makes DUBs so much easier as you only need to swap the audiodisc so switch to another language. I think around this time cinamas started to tver alot more variations here in germany, making runs with original language, than one with dub and sometimes even a third language when there was a large group of potential customers of that language near a specific cinema.Noone would have dealt with that chaos in the older days.

[@kylejramstad]

I was the last trained projectionist at my theater in 2009. I remember we had Dolby and DTS on all our Christie projectors. Some reels came to us with discs and some did not. We used whatever sound the distributor gave us

[@iskidoopinball-kf2ig]

I was a projectionist in 97-98 at a 10 theater house. One of the things not really detailed was how film was transported. Movies came on reels in canisters and a 2 hour movie used about 4-5 reels. They had to be spliced together and fed to the platter system and then broken back down after the film release had run its course. I was hoping to see some footage of how the multiple reels had to be daisy chained together as well as the trailers. One benefit of putting together was being able to do a “run down” on Thursday nights after hours before a typical Friday release. We had to make sure that there were no mistakes during the splicing to insure that a reel wasn’t offset by miscounting the sprocket holes during a splice. All in all this was very informative and it brought back some good memories. I really enjoy your channel and the topics you choose. All of the research you put into your topics, shows in the final product. Kudos.

[@GameSack]

This is one of my areas of expertise so I'll try not to go completely into shop-talk mode. SDDS could do 8 channels, yes, but it often carried the same 5.1 mix as Dolby Digital and DTS. The extra two channels were between the Left, Center, and Right channels behind the screen, so backwards compatibility was a no-brainer. AMC made a huge SDDS buy and installed SDDS in ALL of their screens in the US, or at least they were supposed to. They certainly had a ton but I don't think it ever reached 100% of AMC screens. SDDS is indeed the least preferred format though. That's because instead of dropping back out to analog stereo when it failed, it would often drop do a crappier low-bit rate digital mode with fewer channels. It sounded awful, way worse than even Dolby A-Type. Only when that failed would it drop to ANALog sound. I wish I knew you were working on this as I could've sent you some DTS discs. BTW DTS was really only a 5 channel system as it doesn't have the ".1". Instead it took the subwoofer information from the surrounds, which made the surrounds not-full range. There's so much more nonsense I could blab about but I'm stopping now before they use my text as a new border wall or something. PS - They got rid of silver soundtracks and opted for cyan dye soundtracks. You can see one on the platter picture you showed with the film coming out of the center. Yeah that was a whole thing which was a fun conversion in the industry.

[@Aquatarkus96]

I'm an audio engineer and I have a few questions. 1. You say DTS is not "full range" in the surrounds, and the LFE is a summed and filtered mix of the surrounds. How is that exactly done? Is that the case for theatres as well as DTS on consumer media? I have the catalogue of the band Genesis remixed in 5.1 DTS 24/96. When ripping the discs for my own archival purposes, I do notice that there is in fact 6 channels of audio on the disc. Is this a lie and the decoder is making a LFE channel up on the spot? Or is the process of taking the surround channels and creating the LFE done in the mix/master portion? If it is always just a sum of the surrounds, I would be interested to see how those Genesis albums were mixed, because the LFE does not sound like a simple filtered mix of the surrounds, and the surrounds do sound like they're full range when playing the music back. I do know that the short lived DTS:EX used a matrixed center rear surround in a "6.1" kind of system in the years before true 7.1 channel releases, but the only movie I can think of that used that was LOTR. 2. I often hear claims that DTS soundtracks are mastered slightly louder on commercial DVD releases compared to DD. Is there any truth to this?

[@jussikuusela7345]

Expensive modification which some cinemas couldn't afford... a few years only before most went digital. OTOH those cinemas might not have been able to afford digital either.

[@davidfaraday7963]

@@Aquatarkus96 The DTS system found on consumer media is entirely different from that used to provide digital audio in the cinema. Yes its the same company, but otherwise no connection.

[@davidfaraday7963]

Or as someone said in the early 2000s: "SDDS means "still doesn't do shit"

[@TopSpot123]

I scrolled down just to see if you'd show up. You did and I learned something new.

[@JeremyGreysmark]

I am 35 and my first job was being a projectionist in a multiplex cinema. I was basically the last generation to have handled film on a daily basis. I have worked with multiple machines and they were mostly35mm projectors, but sometimes we used 70mm too on our bigger machines. One of the biggest benefits of dts was that we were able to play the same film copy in multiple languages, because all it took was to swap the dts discs and voila, any dubbed version could be played. SDDS contained three centre channels as the normal single one in SRD or DTS which was beneficial on bigger screens because the voice of the speaking person could be more accurately placed on the screen. And then there was the scary but interesting way of playing one copy in multiple machines at the same time which have been networked together. A scary thing to do, but it was interesting to see in action :).

[@mfbfreak]

Ooh! That last thing - one film print running through a bunch of tubes and holes in walls and floors to another projector - there's actually really awesome footage about that on KZbin. Or at least there was, about 5 years ago. No idea if the uploader kept it up, but it was very much worth watching.

[@erinrising2799]

at my 10 plex, the projectionist once threaded a print thru 8 of the projectors

[@Coderjo.]

@@mfbfreak FilmTech has a video demonstrating a 16-screen interlock. it's quite a trip. The video ID is ZdPKGNCw7lM

[@MostlyPennyCat]

If you look at the last generation of 35mm film, SDDS was encoded outside the sprocket holes, Dolby Digital _in-between_ the sprocket holes, analogue stereo where it's always been and the DTS time code in-between sound-on-film and the image. Bananas

[@Toast_Points]

My people! I'm 34 and was a last-gen 35mm projectionist too! I even ran the last film screening at our multiplex. One day film will come back, the way vinyl did, and they'll have to dig us up to train the new generation lmao

[@alandouglas8939]

One of the other benefits of DTS was that you could produce a foreign language version of the film without having to change the film print. Just supply DTS CDs in the appropriate languages that the cinemas could use. Love your work!

[@PanthereaLeonis]

Oh, that is genious! The DTS after all is just "we're this, and we're here", so that would indeed be easy! Cool!

[@PouLS]

The word you're looking for is "translation".

[@b6983832]

Dubbing is popular in some counties, such as Germany, but many other counties use mainly the original soundtracks with subtitles. Lip sync is never perfect when the dialogs are dubbed to an another language.

[@smartereveryday]

My pleasure!

[@kennyramos20]

Great... now we need a colab between you two!

[@TheRenegade...]

@@kennyramos20 Co-lab. Not to be confused with collab. Unlike the shortened term for collaboration, what we need is them to do a lab together.

[@FluffyBlueCow]

But I didn't hear laminar flow anywhere in the video. I thought that was how Destin is summoned (kind of Captain Planet style) :)

[@jaysunbrady]

@@FluffyBlueCowWhen he mentioned he knew how film was made @26:16 (roughly) he thanked Destin, as Destin made a series of videos on how film is made. It seems Destin must watch this channel too.

[@Fedorchik1536]

Your audio desync work is on point! Brings back memories...

[@Beakerbite]

You can still experience it with bluetooth audio devices. A classic problem with modern equipment, wonderful.

[@xavierg.]

He right on point. When I was 19 working at the theatre concession serving popcorn, I had a chance to see the projectionist loading up a movie.

[@toyloliSpare]

It was like watching an old english dub of a japanese film :P (The best reference I had for it)

[@MrDuncl]

I recall being shown a film on materials science at college. The lecturer must have threaded the projector incorrectly as there was about a 1/2 second delay between the picture and sound which was very amusing when the presenter was smashing materials like pig-iron to show how brittle they were.

[@pyro-millie5533]

When I caught that, I nearly slow clapped out of sheer rage lol

[@m.g.540]

I just love his sarcastic humour, one of the funniest yet educational channels ever, the technicalities of the subjects discussed are indelibly impressed because it is presented in such a entertaining format, If i had teachers like this i would not have grown up so stupid.

[@MrZoomZone]

and the whithering stare after delivering a salient point, lol! Makes me want to to look round to check I am the only one he is talking to.

[@arandomperson8336]

To be honest I didn't see how it was even possible to encode audio on film like that, but some quick googling says that 16mm film stock has an optical resolution 50-80 lines per millimeter. Using the high end of that and assuming a 7 inch / sec film speed we get an audio rate of 14KhZ in more modern parlance. It's not great but it's plenty good enough. I'm still amazed it works at all, hats off to long-dead engineers for being smarter than I am. 37:35 I love how you actually put backwards captions and not just [reversed sound] or something xD

[@petrmaly9087]

Depends on what film. Foma 100 has over 100 lines per mm, that's a cheap film (still in production as true B&W reverse film), it wouldn't be a problem to find something of much better resolution.

[@MattCherwin]

"Don't be Blu, Sony" immediately became my favorite of your clever drop-ins. Love it.

[@Kanbei11]

Those subtitles during the backwards bit were divine

[@TwoWholeWorms]

That was worth rewinding for. xD

[@Fulano5321]

37:27 for those that want to go back.

[@runed0s86]

Also check the endcard subtitles for a leak from the basement interns about the new movie coming out!

[@mckstellar1005]

I was trying to read it backwards since Ik how to sdrawkcab ti daer and type it as well. The trick is not simply typing the words backwards but the whole sentence as well. Unfortunately it just sounds exactly like it... which then makes me wonder... what it actually said forwards hmm.

[@starfoxdelta]

YOOOOOOO, nice Advance Wars pfp! :D

[@HappyNBoy]

My first job was at a movie theater, and from 2006-2010 I was the head film projectionist and I got to deal with all these sound formats (we even used SDDS sometimes). This was a fun walk down memory lane! What a fun Christmas surprise, Alec!

[@parkerlreed]

The whole synchronization bit is gold. EDIT: Holy crap. I never realized that's how Dolby digital started out. Like in my head I was like that's late enough for a digital file right? I guess it was just spread across the sprocket of the tape...

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

Yup, it’s in between the sprocket holes. The way they squeezed in multiple audio formats into ever smaller bits left in the film is truly stunning. The engineers must have been so happy when things went digital for projection.

[@Milnoc]

What's also fascinating is how Dolby incorporated DD/AC-3 soundtracks onto Laserdiscs. By the time the AC-3 technology was introduced, most Laserdiscs had the newer stereo CD style PCM track on top of the two legacy analog tracks, and newer Laserdisc players fully supported decoding the superior PCM tracks. With the analog tracks becoming somewhat obsolete, they were repurposed for extra features such as commentary tracks. You could even have two commentary tracks on a disc because the player allowed you to select which analog channel you wanted to play back instead of playing both at the same time. That's when someone at Dolby had the brilliant idea to store an RF modulated 384(?) kbps Dolby Digital signal onto the analog track. Some higher-end Laserdisc players came with a separate audio output for the AC-3 RF analog track which would be fed into a separate RF demodulator, converting the RF track into a proper digital signal that could then be fed into a home 5.1 channel receiver. I used to have such a Dolby 5.1 Laserdisc set-up and it sounded fantastic! But with the introduction of lower cost DVDs and their ability to natively support multiple digital tracks, Laserdiscs quickly became obsolete. And once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were introduced, it was already game over for Laserdiscs. Still, Laserdiscs paved the way for the home sound formats and features we have today, and I'll always be grateful to have owned them at one time. My old gear and remaining Laserdisc collection will soon be put up for sale on Kijiji.

[@j_m_b_1914]

80s kids like me who watched plenty of these in elementary school will have waves of nostalgia from this video! What amazes me is how clean and crisp the sound is from the film.

[@Z7d3nR4]

I was in elementary school during the early 1960's. We watched a lot of those educational movies on 16mm.

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

My school still used them in the early 2000s for some old films. Seeing those in that time seemed extremely surreal.

[@grn1]

90's kid here, don't think I watched any of these in school but did recognize a few things from documentaries I've watched as an adult including a documentary on one of the inventors of sound on film.

[@shapesinaframe]

I first saw Wizard of Oz on one of these in primary school in the mid 80s (I think it was the last day of the year and the teachers had not much to do) I was completely blown away when it went from black & white to colour when Dorothy opened the door to Oz 😮

[@Zimmy_1981]

Lucky guys, we weren't allowed tv / film in our schools😢

[@summalaude4614]

Insane how smart people were back then and continue to be today. Makes me feel we stand on shoulders of giants

[@supme7558]

Its all iterations on monkey to the next

[@fershred]

I mean yeah but no one invented this in a day. This technology, like any other, is brilliant but it took, like any other, time through trial and error to achieve its optimum capabilities.

[@Sinusoidal]

The last time I noticed cigar burns, or cue marks, was when I watched The Lord of the Rings The Two Towers and Return of the King at my regional Australian theatre. Makes sense that they were still using a largely analog system, even at the time, and finally explains to me what those marks were. I always thought they were some kind of artifact or imperfection in the film stock. Makes sense that they were a reel transfer, either manual or automatic.

[@davidg4288]

You used to see these cue marks on television back when TV shows were on film rather than tape. Time for a commercial break!

[@ploed]

@@davidg4288 Plainly Difficult does the same on his videos :D

[@robmausser]

100% Digital projection in theatres didnt become commonplace until at least the mid 2000's, so even up until 2007 in some smaller theatres, film was still being used. And a lot of theatres never upgraded to the film tray system, they went straight to digital from the old method.

[@twizz420]

@@robmausser I've been to some small towns where they still use film projectors... And in my city there's also a small theatre that plays old classics on a film projector as well. I love it and it's usually pretty full but I'm generally the youngest person there by a good 30 years at least, unless I manage to drag a friend along

[@horusreloaded6387]

I learned about cue marks from a Fight Club scene but didn't understand how they work until this video

[@MaxOakland]

This is just amazing. It’s like a Rube Goldberg machine. I kind of can’t believe the ingenuity required to make this work

[@dielaughing73]

And he didn't even show all the mechanical complexity

[@billharris6886]

Hi Alec, this episode brought back many memories from the 1960's when I was that geek kid that was always tasked with running any projector in elementary school. That Bell & Howell Filmosound 500 series 16mm model was very easy to set up and thread (believe it or not) compared with the 170 and 180 series 16mm prior generation Bell & Howell projectors. The 500 series had a larger lense, which enabled the protection bulb to be have the wattage and still maintain the same image brightness. Those bulbs had a lifetime of 20 hours and needed to have the cooling fan run for another few minutes after projecting to cool and maximize bulb life. I never had a sound drum lamp go out. I suspect these bulbs were powered from a filtered dc voltage source to prevent ac hum from being transmitted to the light sensor, as it would detect the minor cooling and warming of the filament due to 60 cycles ac power. The 35mm projectors used in the movie theaters during the 1960's had a carbon arc light source. The projectionist would set up the arc prior to running the movie on both projectors. A mechanical electrode feed system was used to keep the arc mostly optimized, which needed touch up while the film was rolling ever so often. The electrodes only lasted about 22 minutes before they were consumed, which is why the film reels contained 20 minutes of film, at which point the second projector was switched on. This gave the projectionist time to set up the other projector for the next reel, including arc electrode changout and alignment.

[@Feraligono]

That "Code unto others" line is absolute gold and I can't believe they were complaining about stuff like that even in the 60s/70s. Makes it even sadder that it's still such a problem now.

[@bb5242]

Ya, and it was 100% white people back then, even.

[@9SMTM6]

Well, as with anything this discipline must be learned first by newcomers. And as sadly with many social disciplines, the feedback for how well you do that often lags or never reaches you.

[@JACKHARRINGTON]

@@9SMTM6 I wonder if you can go out of your way to receive that feedback?

[@Yin_Esra]

​@@JACKHARRINGTON in a professional environment - code reviews. However, it would be better if you are taught this better in training, but the incentives are not aligned (and TAs and profs in uni / college often have no idea what good code is).

[@OofusTwillip]

Norman MacLaren, at the National Film Board of Canada, hand-drew abstract sound-tracks, directly onto the master print. His Oscar-winning anti-war film, "Neighbours" is a masterpiece.

[@morora.9312]

Thanks for the discovery, that was interesting to watch !

[@Xondar11223344]

"Neighbours" was required watching when I was in elementary school.

[@TheHarryshelton]

Bell and Howell must have sold a zillion of those to schools!

[@kelownatechkid]

Thank you for sharing this. Truly a historic film.

[@libtardiacitizen]

Now all we have are warmongers.

[@tomhsia4354]

Of course Alec has a Filmosound projector. 1:46 Also, Pedants' Tears really is the best drink. 23:24 So that's why something felt off about the front half of this video, almost felt like a voiceover at times.

[@SianaGearz]

Too salty.

[@truckerallikatuk]

@@SianaGearz But also lacking essential nutrients.

[@MisterNohbdy]

that second line is pure uncensored violence

[@ryuku2]

I thought I was just being overly influenced about the demo station of desync earlier and was going to comment that after the video was over. But once he mentioned that yes, things were off, I decided "oh, no, I'm not crazy"

[@NeatNit]

What's the timestamp for pedant's tears? I can't find it!

[@fershred]

I don't know how you manage to make super engaging videos like this. My guess is by default many people would find that 3 minute film demonstration at 18:00 boring, but I was so goddamn happy you showed that material

[@Helladamnleet]

Letting your audio get slowly out of sync was genious

[@rogermwilcox]

Then it slowly got back IN sync at the end of the segment!

[@rogermwilcox]

@@SimuLord : The very first video I uploaded to KZbin was in .wma (Windows Movie) format. The audio was perfectly in sync when I watched it in Windows Media Player. When I uploaded it to KZbin (which interntally converted it to MP4 format, I think), the sound drifted horribly out of sync. It was this experience which convinced me to switch from Windows Movie Maker to Adobe Premiere Elements 8.

[@bobroberts2371]

There was a Saturday Night Live skit where the presenter spoke like a fluttering " B&H Filmosound 3000 projector" complete with the flapping sound when the film reel ran out. I tried to find it but came up empty. It was in the 80's 90's time frame.

[@RayleighCriterion]

You were having a stroke, the audio was perfectly fine.

[@JouvaMoufette]

I both loved it and hated it at the same time

[@Foebane72]

I'd seen close-ups of visible soundtrack waveforms on old films like shown earlier here, but I never dreamed of the ingenuity of Dolby Digital audio being stored as QR-like codes INBETWEEN THE SPROCKET HOLES!! Amazing!

[@SplicesAndCelluloid]

Fun fact, those codes are called fixels! Dolby Digital is absolutely bananas, and I'd totally suggest reading the patent. They put a lot of thought into it, and though it's not covered in the patents, some newer films had firmware updates for the Dolby Digital readers encoded in the soundtrack!

[@DPedroBoh]

@@SplicesAndCelluloid My god, that's indeed what i would consider bananas. Totally bogus, and even, ludicrous. No, really, that's so cool.

[@kelownatechkid]

Yeah this is one of the best things!

[@h8GW]

I'm not gonna look it up, but I'm pretty sure cinema is why QR codes were invented in the first place.

[@aarondavis8943]

The fact that the bagpipes sound terrible is an indication of the accuracy of the system.

[@petergamache5368]

What a delightful throwback to the AV Club in high school, where only a select few of us were trusted not to mangle film in projectors. It was always a source of joy when a teacher got impatient and took over the process, only to destroy the first few feet of whatever was slated to be shown.

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

I was sad my high school didn't have one for me to join.

[@withershin]

I was just at the edge of AV club times where we had access to these and knew how to use them but it was way more fun letting a teacher "show us" how to use it and destroy film. "What do you mean I have to flip a laserdisc?" was my other favourite thing or "why are there black boxes on the image?" - the good old days.

[@cambridgemart2075]

Yes, been there myself! I remember one lunchtime showing when the loop restore failed, I spent the whole roll with my finger on the tension idler so stop the sound wowing.

[@nicholasragusano2284]

Being part of the AV Club meant that you spent one period a day with these contraptions. It also meant that we could "preview" all the movies that came in. We just needed to make sure they were rewound and placed back in the correct cans! Also, there were times when we, even with 16mm film, had to use two projectors and make the transition from one to the other watching for those little Os in the upper right corner of the film. We could get quite upset if someone bothered us, causing a miscue!

[@brunohelenius4062]

Respect! You have an extraordinary skill of breaking down complicated technology into easily digestable pieces. I have watched only a few videos so far and I never had to rewind or pause in order to understand what was just said. Even more, you are covering seemingly every possible angle and in the end I feel like nothing was left unanswered. Some teachers could learn from you!

[@tarotnomad]

Agreed!

[@GigaDanMan]

Another potential benefit of DTS's audio-on-disc system: same film stock for any region with the CDs being localized to whatever language necessary.

[@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you]

Dts was a pain, not cause it wasn't awesome, pr great quality. But soo many cinema's 'lost' discs meaning it was less and less likely cinemas would ever get the discs. Towards the end, DTS were digitally delivering iso files if you asked them, which meant at least cinemas HAD the disc data. Most cinema's still had a DD and the standard SR track discussed here as backup. Worth pointing out SR was more than stereo, it had two patterns as seen here, but with some additional 'maths' you could encode more channels, albeit nowhere near as good as DTS or DD. 70mm did also use magnetic audio tracks, and both 35mm and 70mm also had the very little used SDDS

[@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you]

Also, to my knowledge, DTS only ever used CDs and never moved to DVD. I have an XD10 or two if anyone wants! And whilst the XD10's used dvd drives, the discs were only ever CDs

[@stacyswirl]

This was amazing. It always fascinates me that the waveform I'm used to seeing digitally is the same on analog sources. And knowing how they were written to and read off the film is very interesting. But the most interesting thing I learned from this video is that the film gets slowed down to a ticking, "show one still frame for a fraction of a second" at the projection site in order for the persistence of vision to do its work. I had no idea that film didn't just run through smoothly, but it makes sense once explained. Then knowing that the sound area does have to run through smoothly, so both those sites have to be separated by a series of gears and capstans etc to make them run at different styles is the craziest thing of all. Thank you so much for this video, I absolutely loved it.

[@fart3312]

The fact that you can recreate exact sound from a picture of it is so fascinating to me. I would understand mechanical noise but the fact that it can create a specific persons voice and music blows my mind

[@joesterling4299]

If you could see magnetization on audio tape, it would probably look similar. This is just an optical representation of the analog audio, rather than magnetic. If you look at a vinyl record's grooves with a magnifying glass, you'll see the waveform recorded physically there as well.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@joesterling4299 magnetisation on audio tape looks like the second-described sound on film, where it’s varying brightness rather than varying width, so it ends up looking like a non-quantised barcode. Techmoan has a brief video with an audio tape viewer (think magnet paper but with finer particles) if you’re curious how it looks.

[@MCOlangotang]

We can recreate images, audio and worlds by opening and closing really tiny gates.

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

The resultant of a combination of sound sources/frequencies is only ever one waveform, (or two for stereo playback). It is pretty weird to think about how multiple sounds can be contained in one wave, but somehow, they can.

[@eliseleonard3477]

This was an amazing amount of great explanation. I never fully understood how sound was encoded on film in days of old. In the 1960’s it happened occasionally that a movie would stop in the middle for anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or so, and now it’s clear what the projectionist was frantically doing.

[@antystein]

I am impressed by the coincidence, that only just yesterday (one day before this video was released) I was looking at an old 35mm film that I found which has an analog audio track as well and as I had never seen something similar before, I was trying to think of a way to reproduce the sound. Now, without even searching I have all the information I need to play around with it! I am actually creating a mechanism to automatically take a picture of each frame, and I can make a separate contraption to attempt to get the sound. The film is not very long, and it's an original take, so it makes a very interesting project!

[@Weretyu7777]

Impressive work! And that is a funny coincidence.

[@DavesGarage]

I was in a Microsoft meeting where they were struggling with the overhead Barco... no luck getting it running. The irony is that the company is largely staffed by people who ran the projector in school when they were young... like me!

[@TechieZeddie]

Hey, it's Dave! 👋 Love your channel, too!

[@capitalinventor4823]

You were in a meeting with software people and the problem was with hardware. :) I was a contractor at a large firm that is no longer around and I was part of a group that looked after the software configuration management (SCM) application, custom scripts, and repositories. Not my main work of software development but I don't mind doing other jobs. One day I had to see someone to install the SCM application and the company's custom scripts onto their computer. I got to their desk near the start of the day and the computer was still turned off because the recently graduated software engineer didn't know how to turn on their computer. I had to show them how to turn on their computer. Two reasons that assisted into the company's demise were that all the jobs were strictly segmented and managers were able to increase their level (get a promotion) by having more people under their charge. When I went to install the set up the persons computer I found out it had not even been set up properly to be used on the network so I needed the person to call the network group to do that and then call the system administrators to install the base SCM application as my group were not allowed administrator rights. Two days were wasted for them until I could go back and install the software. As for the other issue, I stated that the more people a manager looked after the higher in level a manager was. Basically a manager could give themselves a promotion by taking over another group from within the company or hiring more people to fill in their own group(s) whether the people were needed, a good fit, or even good. That's how I ended up meeting a software engineer that could not start a desktop computer. They were from another country and had been used to going to the labs in university where the computers were always on.

[@minecraftchest1]

Hey Dave!

[@Kandralla]

If you are in the very thin band of people who were in school when VHS was replacing Film for showing educational stuff an interesting observation you probably can make now is how some 60 year old was able to accurately thread and troubleshoot multiple projectors.... but popping a VHS tape in, putting the TV on channel three and pushing play had about a 30% success rate.

[@startedtech]

...how old of a barco? One of the 150lb CRT projectors?

[@marcberm]

The limitations of having multiple film reels for feature films even came to affect the way the final film was edited. To make the viewing experience as seamless as possible, it became commonplace to make a scene or camera/view change coincide precisely with the moment of the swap.

[@nynexman4464]

I learned this from a sort of throwaway joke in mystery science theatre. Whatever movie they're watching has a rather sudden cut to church bells ringing and one of the bots says something like "way to hide the reel change".

[@marcberm]

@@nynexman4464 I think I vaguely remember this!!! There's also a good explanation of the reel change (and the "cigarette burn" queue markings) from Tyler Durden in Fight Club.

[@marcberm]

@@nynexman4464 Old school telecom guy? Just guessing by the name. I work with a bunch of the modern Avaya stuff.

[@lizcademy4809]

As I remember, all reel changes were at a visual change in the film. The exact length of the film on the reel would vary a bit to match up. Because the change was manual, different reel length wasn't a problem.

[@aelitadelarobia]

reel changes were described in detail in at least one or two. episodes of Columbo

[@davidvanhorn3340]

Fun fact, sound film runs at 24fps, silent movies were shot at 16 fps. This is why everything looks comically fast and jerky when an old silent film is viewed with a "talkie" projector

[@StevesWanderlust]

Former projectionist here. Thanks for the comforting familiarity of what was my favorite low-paying job. If you ever get to see 70mm film in action, I highly recommend it.

[@Elainetech]

When I was young, I didn’t have a TV at home. The government arranged for special people to use this projector to show movies in the village square. Seeing your video brought back memories of my childhood. Thank you. Merry Christmas to you and your family!

[@rhkips]

This is probably one of the most fascinating and informative videos I've seen on KZbin in a long, long time. I'm old enough to remember these things from grade school, and while I frequently asked how they worked, no one knew. Thank you, fellow internet-based stranger!

[@Pyrolonn]

I think that's the genius of this channel, exposing the nuances of the mundane. I haven't really seen one of these movie projectors since middle school in the early 80s, and seeing the technical challenges to make it work, I'm quite impressed. Not only that, it seems like a projector had to be robust to work for many years. Makes me wonder how often they had to be serviced and/or maintained.

[@jgcornell]

My first technical job out of school was in a university library's AV unit, and I remember being shown, and being fascinated by the audio banding tracks - I never really thought much about it again until now, thanks so much for the explanation!

[@rogermwilcox]

I have fond memories of super-8 mm film getting stuck in an old projector in elementary school. The flaming-hot incandescent lamp was still on, so fireworks-like bursts of light appeared on the screen while the inferno-like projector bulb destroyed a frame of film. You could literally see it BOILING. Thank the gods for the invention of (much cooler) LED lamps!

[@soaringvulture]

Were there any movie projectors with LED lamps? I would have thought that the projectors became extinct before LED's became popular.

[@loganricherson]

@@soaringvulture I'm not sure about period projectors but I wouldn't be surprised if someone made one nowadays. The main market for people using them are collectors and having an LED would greatly reduce the chance of them potentially destroying a rare film

[@CptJistuce]

@@soaringvulture Film projectors are virtually extinct, but the modern solid-state projectors still have big ol' lamps. And yes, they've moved to supernova-bright LEDs. I'd wager that some of the projector lamps in modern projectors are compatible with their more-traditional film cousins.

[@charlie_nolan]

That film was probably shown 50 more times even after that

[@Thornbloom]

Always loved it when a film breaks. I was in a screening of Batman Forever and the projector (or the film don't remember which) broke right at Carrey's deep voice moment. That was fun.

[@rosuav]

So the next time someone brags about having a 144Hz monitor, you can remind them that it's displaying images for one grossth of a second...

[@robertives973]

i just want to put it out there that modern projectionists still have an amazing and difficult job which ultimately goes unnoticed. i worked as a bartender at a modern-ish movie theater and i was lucky enough to have the privilege of getting a tour from the senior projectionist behind the scenes. The most impressive thing to me was the heat management. they had a system of air ducts and fans that could easily rival any indoor farm. It was amazing learning how nowadays the biggest issue in projection is actually heat management. The imax projectors i got to see were not only impressive in the fact that they had two extremely large and fancy projectors but they also had their own dedicated blower. The coolest thing to me was finding out the tech at this particular theater were almost fifteen years behind modern tech.

[@TheLp640fan]

man it really doesn't matter what you choose to talk about it's always a banger.

[@kubev]

28:49 - There's an episode of Columbo called "Make Me a Perfect Murder" in which you get to see this reel change technique done. Also, I have to say, it's crazy to me that people were able to figure out how to make this stuff work as well as it did so long ago. Not just the reel change technique. Everything. Every part of this just seems amazing.

[@TheBrain2K]

I think that Columbo episode might actually have been where I first learned about cue marks too. And once you have learned about cue marks, you'll ALWAYS notice them. You can't un-see them anymore. From that point on, I could tell 8 seconds in advance when the break will start in the movie theater (in the middle of the movie, at the end of a reel) or sometimes even on TV for the one channel that only put in a single advertising break (and timed it the same as they would in a cinema). That was like 15-20 years ago when I still watched regular TV sometimes. But even after all those years of watching mostly digital content with no cue marks, I noticed the first cue marks in this video straight away (the ones at 10:28, way before he starts talking about changing reels). I started laughing and had to explain to my son (who has never heard of cue marks) what I found so funny. 😄

[@bb5242]

The film "Fight Club" had some, ahem, interesting film lore presented in it as well.

[@davidweston9115]

In many ways I find the analogue world to be more high tech than digital. Compare the CRT tv screen for example. The old tech CRT had an electron gun shooting electrons at you, drawing 500 lines of picture 60 times per second, using quickly changing magnetism to bend the trajectory of the shooting electrons, vs. the new led screens which are merely glorified Las Vegas type outdoor lighted signs, with a bunch of coloured lights already in place and a circuit to decide when to illuminate each one. Also consider in 1950 TV was wireless and free, broadcast from miles away, but now we need a cable to get it to the tv, and must pay for it. Much lower technology in modern times.

[@alveolate]

@@davidweston9115 i sorta get what you're saying... but the point of the "lower tech" (i would say less fanciful tech) is purely practical: far far higher bandwidth and way better fidelity. i'm not a tech expert by any stretch, just know that CRTs hit the maximum limit in picture quality very early, since those units produced MUCH more heat, consumed a lot more power, and couldn't ever do 4K resolution without crazy massive mechanisms that would probably present real dangers to users. by the same token, radio waves (probably) can't carry the 10mbps or so required for HD and up, while maintaining data fidelity on radio waves... something about data correction and stuff already hitting physical limits with cell phone carriers or something? this one's really super complicated and specialist, there was a veritasium video on how it works and i don't think i remember all the details xD altho cell phones are "many-to-many" whereas broadcast tv is "one-to-many" so i'm probably wrong on this one. we probably still could do wireless 4K somehow.

[@Muswell]

I used to use the wondeful Elf projectors back in the 1970s. SO easy to thread - never had any problem during the 5 years I was using them 3 evenings a week. I got the reel-changes down to a few seconds.

[@PupShepardRubberized]

damn, that pokemon 35mm film looked really sharp and well colored.

[@zero_gravity5861]

"1/grossth" is amazing and also the refresh rate of my monitor so that's interesting

[@frederf3227]

A microfortnight is about 1.2s. A gigaAngstom is about 1/3rd feet. This makes a gigaAngstom per microfortnight a rather sedate speed of 0.2712334569.... mph.

[@mystifoxtech]

​@@frederf3227 Where did you get this forbidden knowledge?

[@ericsvilpis1635]

@@mystifoxtechI’m guessing from math

[@kevinquinn1993]

If "GROSSTH" wasn't a word before, it IS now... (Fun Fact: 10 minutes is one grossth of a day...)

[@rodhoutx]

This brings back memories. In junior high school in the early 80's I chose A/V as an elective. There were about 2-3 of us per period. We were the kids that went around the school to roll the projectors around to the classrooms and rewind and re-load the film on the projectors in the classroom. The teachers could start it, but not thread it. We could also wander around during the period just checking on the projectors and making sure the audio was synced (that issue with the loops too big would happen sometimes). After a few weeks we could thread a projector pretty quickly. They also taught us how to splice the film if it broke, replace bulbs, etc. But I don't think we ever saw the inside of one with all the belts and mechanics. I was always curious how the audio worked. I knew there was a light there and that was audio related, but I did actually think it was somehow magnetic. Fascinating stuff!

[@SaturnCanuck]

Alec, thank you so much. What a trip down memory lane. As a member of the AV Club in Elementary school (1976, 77) I ran those projectors in various classes. Our Bell and Howell’s were a lovely pale blue/green and the later model with self-threading, as you mentioned, but you never knew when you had to re-thread those damn things because, well, of course you did! And then in Film Club in High School (starting in 1979) we showed 16mm versions of theatrical movies in the auditorium, and damn did we get good at seeing those sync marks with our dual projectors. Eventually. A lost art to be sure.

[@jimb032]

I wan on AV too. But we had the Singer(Telex) InstaLoad XL. And they were a dream compared to the crap Bell and Howell's we had. (Sorry). Probably yours were better because it seemed they stopped buying those and the B&H were always the old junk we sent out when we didnt have any more Singers. Still remember them well, and I loved those things so much I wanted one for home.

[@johnnycats5157]

This brings back a lot of memories. When I was a small, my friend's dad was a projectionist at a local movie theater. We hung out in the booth often, learned a lot about film projection by osmosis. Then in high school, another friend of mine got a job as a projectionist too, and I learned how the giant spools worked.

[@erok268]

@Don't Read My Profile Photo botttt

[@MostlyPennyCat]

They would bring an Eiki 16mm to my primary school on rare Saturdays to show us movies. Highlight of my childhood.

[@RandomDudeOne]

Being a projectionist was a career at one time, until automation made it so easy the theaters would just higher high school kids for minimum wage to do the job.

[@strakhovandrri]

I like how much he loves this video. Those EPCOT and Crookes radiometer scenes are like Easter eggs to his video before, or that joy sparkling in his eyes when he got to say that phrase "Through the magic of having two of them" is wonderful. Alec, you are very alive today and it's so good to look at you.

[@JohnDoe-cd6ro]

I worked as a projectionist for Aye Emme Cee around '08 and ironically the 35mm prints (the last around that time before everyone switched to digital) had a form of this. The film would move through a platter and the "brain" would read the side of the film and decode it and then produce the sound. Best job I ever had.

[@johntomik4632]

Those brain wraps were brutal.

[@JohnDoe-cd6ro]

@@johntomik4632 Ah dude you ain't lyin'. The location I was at was one of the biggest in the NYC area and like one day during my first week running the booth, I remember I had like 3 or 4 at the same time. I was running around like a chicken with its head cutoff, running from platter to platter trying to splice film WHILE the projector was running. I was freaking out. I managed to splice them and had 2 or 3 late starts but no one was the wiser. I had threaded them wrong because I missed one little step. I learned from it and it never happened again but boy was the pressure and anxiety on.

[@johntomik4632]

@@JohnDoe-cd6ro I had a few break too lol! I also remember watching Apollo 13 and Braveheart about 50 times:)

[@JohnDoe-cd6ro]

@@johntomik4632 That's always the best part. Being able to watch movies and sometimes (at least at my location) being able to have viewing parties with close family and friends of films a few days before official release. Like as soon as we got the reels, we'd build them and screen the movies. That could be like a week before release. 3 hr movies sucked bc of the amount of film and threading you'd have to do. Sometimes even threading the same print through multiple projectors simultaneously. But my favorite is we had separate smaller digital projectors that were strictly for ads, etc. and we'd hook up our consoles after hours and play multiplayers on the huge screens. Needless to say, my projection booth manager was awesome.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

These old projectors are incredible. I never realized it had to stop the film for each image. I figured it was just moving the whole time. Whats weird is fight club taught me a bit about film.

[@markevans2294]

This is why there's a small loop of film above and below the gate as well as a tension arm underneath. When moving through the optical pick up the film is moving at a constant speed.

[@likebot.]

You wait until you see how IMAX works. It's genius.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

When he does the Vintage Compact Disc episode in a few years, I'm hoping he tells us all the CD stops 44,100 times per second.

[@crazyeyez1502]

I was waiting for him to reference Fight Club. "In the industry, we call these 'cigarette burns'..."

[@jooger69]

@@crazyeyez1502 Me too.

[@davidblair8843]

Yes! Fun fact the audio tracks were redundant. Sometimes you could hear the digital drop out and the analog take over. The switchover was instantaneous but tere was definitely a noticeable difference in the sound fidelity, at least until it failed back over. Great video!

[@asdfhun]

yeah, and you got way more of that switchover especially at the end and the beginning of a reel (where it wore out more) if you not lived n the US. Back in the days, a film premiered in the US, run for 1-2 months, then - since a 35 mm copy of a film cost a ridiculous amount of money - got sent to Europe, got the subtitles etched in - removing the film particles and make it completely transparent, so it's irreversible - so non english speaking countries were always were 1-2 months behind the US to save money on the reels, cause we got "second hand" copies that were played a around 50-100 times before.

[@stevethepocket]

@@asdfhun THAT'S the reason for staggered release schedules??? That makes so much sense!

[@asdfhun]

@@stevethepocket yeah it's always the money, haha :) Back then, almost every movie was in original language with subtitles, only a few major ones were dubbed (when it was financially viable to make a dubbed copy). When the industry went digital this disappeared, so did the lag, sometimes an american movie premiered in Europe before the US, and it got easier and cheaper to use dubbed audio, but it brought a new problem up (money again) we have dubbed OR subtitled copies, barely both, cause the distributor would have to buy the rights for both versions (what a stupid nonsense) and they barely do, unfortunately almost everything is dubbed now. This explains why i've not been to a cinema at least the past five years, i refuse to watch movies that are dubbed (but how terrible movies are nowadays also contribute to this, all that superhero crap, this universe, that universe, who gives a f....).

[@davidblair8843]

@@asdfhun that must be the origin of “burned in subtitles” never knew that!

[@homestar92]

The sound quality being dependent on the type of film is something I hadn't given any thought to, but it explains something I had read recently that hadn't made sense to me. So, in the Doctor Who missing episode recovery sphere, there was a recent discovery of home-recorded audio tapes. I found it perplexing when the restoration team said that in some cases, the audio was higher quality than they had on the film copies of these episodes - but I suppose it makes sense. The copies we have today are transfers to 16mm film, with the same limitations you mentioned here. The audio tapes are reel-to-reel recordings from consumer-grade hardware, sure. But I suppose it stands to reason that a reel-to-reel tape recording made from the original broadcast of the master tapes may have more frequency response and overall better quality than what the 16mm film format allows, even with professional equipment.

[@nickolaswilcox425]

hadnt put that much together either but it explains some things, between the degradation of the original media, transfer down to inferior formats and destruction, you ended up with a ton of fan recordings often done on top end equipment which were incidentally better quality than the official copies... ive listened to all the early episodes, the eras most heavily affected by the purges and the audio quality keeps jumping all over the place at random, its not great but at least it still exists

[@clifton4566]

Not trying to get all sappy, but thanks for making these videos. You, electroBOOM, and Project Farm have completely changed the way I see and use technology. I've been making frankenstein electronics (lights, stereos, heaters, etc) and small engine equipment (lawnmowers, chainsaw, generator, etc) out of junk that was headed to the landfill. Most of it looks like it was assembled by a tweaker, but it's fun puzzling them together, and most of the stuff actually works well. It's a hobby, it saves money, and I'm reducing my waste. So, again, thanks.

[@tanuki2k]

Back in 2009 (when the first avatar film came out) a friend who worked as a projectionist let me tour the projection booth. He showed me that they had special markers on the film that would be read by a sensor during projection that would trigger a matrix that in turn would automate the movie going experience. E.g dim lights, open the curtains, reason lower the curtains depending on the aspect ratio of the film/trailer and turn the lights back on when the film is over.

[@plonk420]

we just used some metal tape along the SDDS area of the film which i believe was caught (low voltage bridged/shorted?) by the "stop sensor" under the visual and audio part of the projector

[@joshjones3227]

@@plonk420 Proximity detectors were used to sense the foil strip cues. The nicer systems could detect a variety of 3 positions, inboard, outboard and center to trigger different events. There were a lot of simpler readers that used the conductivity of the foil to detect such things as well, but they tended to get less reliable as the film was run many times. The foil would crack, and often fail to trigger the automation. There were other varieties as well, some using reflective patches, barcodes, all sorts of things. The foil cues are also used on audio tape reels to trigger the deck to change playback sides.

[@jimsmalleimb7709]

Congratulations on finding a 16mm projector that still works!

[@bichela]

I got one and a 16mm movie camera both are B&H camera from 1927 and projector from mid 1980s

[@00_rei90]

Eh you could find one in goodwill every now and then

[@millardiii]

Congratulations on finding a 16mm projector that ever worked properly!

[@TaranTatsuuchi]

To be fair, it is easier through the magic of buying _many_ of them....

[@Infrared73]

Brings back so many memories from watching movies is school.

[@Kruton1122]

Some of that audio is the most 60’s and 70’s things I’ve ever heard.

[@newq]

Does anyone know exactly what caused that effect? Was it the mics they used? I'd really love to know so I can replicate it!

[@Kruton1122]

@@newq mainly just synths of the time, the obsessive use of flutes and strings as well as early electronic organs.

[@ryanphillips4123]

@@Kruton1122 and the tone of voice, the accents, the presentation style

[@joescoggins5937]

OK. I like most of your stuff. But this one brought back so many memories. In the 6th grade (I'm 81 years old btw), I was our classroom's official projector operator, and at one point, later on, used that very projector model on Thursdays when we always had some sort of "thrilling" teaching film. I dreamed of working in a movie theater, but, alas, lacked the gumption to apply for a job there. I eventually had one of my own, and loved it! Then I bought an automatic threader...which ruined my fun. Anyway, thanks for the throw-back. *****

[@matthewwhite546]

Great video, Alec. Everything that makes this channel so good: wonder at analog technology, intense pedantry, sarcasm and subtle jokes.

[@hormelinc]

That Bell & Howell Filmosound projector was THE standard of every school classroom, every State Hospital (read: Psycho Ward) and every Prison in these United States in the 60's and 70's. Many updated versions came later than the one shown here. Until video came around, many a movie from film rental house "Films Incorporated" were shown on these B&H projectors.

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

That or the Singer models I saw.

[@famousutopias]

Your timing is impeccable. A month ago I pulled out two16mm projectors from long term storage to rehab mechanicals and electronics so they were ready for some recently “found film” Been marathon film viewing and then I go to your channel and find this! Synchronicity

[@AlexJohnson-cr9cf]

Absolutely love your videos. Can't think of any other channel that I learn so many fun facts from. Like "footage"... Never even thought of the origin of the term. Never stop being you! Thanks a million!

[@ickster9709]

In second grade I was given the responsibility / honor of setting up and running the projector (a nearly identical model) whenever we had movies in class. It all came flooding back as soon as you started going through the threading process, and I remembered the slack loops and figured out what they were for just before you explained it. Only took ~45 years to understand what I learned by rote back then.

[@RonAlbert]

My grandfather (who I can say was a film enthusiast) explained how the sound on film works when I was a kid. And its pretty much accurate to this video. He was the one who got me into films. He even made me a toy projector made from scraps and films from plastic with hand drawn each frame. I miss him.

[@YoSoyElQuesoGrande]

Adjacent fun fact: a certain model of bell and howell filmosound projector (385) possess a fairly sought after amplification section for guitarists, there is even a pedal that emulates the amplification section, the “385” by Walrus Audio. Some people will remove the amplifier from the projectors for their guitar rigs.

[@MadMaxBLD]

That is awesome!

[@darkworlddenizen]

Why couldn't they just reverse engineer it and build new ones? Electronics are universal as long as you follow the schematic and use the proper parts. Would be easier cheaper and spare the projectors to just build replicas.

[@YoSoyElQuesoGrande]

@@darkworlddenizen that can and most likely has been done, but guitar people are looking for “mojo” that wouldn’t be present with a fresh built amp. Eyes closed they can be exactly the same, but it just isnt as cool, i guess. I would be fine with a well made repro, in fact i have the walrus pedal from back when i played a little guitar. We use it on our bass rig at my church for the kinda amp simulator sound.

[@darkworlddenizen]

@@YoSoyElQuesoGrande sounds like the audiophile thing with "vintage" tubes. Modern tubes work just like they did in the 40s but they insist on finding new old stock or taking them from antiques instead.

[@TheMarineIguanaStudios]

31:41 "And you probably recognize our old friend dual-bilateral variable-area! Later renamed _Shrek_ ..."

[@samdillon2258]

Wow! Took me back to my high school days "a hundred years ago", when I would wheel around projectors to classrooms and thread up those educational films. Thanks for how this all worked especially the newer technologies and how they fit the sound into every available space on the film. Best one was those small SRQ squares sandwiched between sprocket holes, can't imagine the film emulsion be fine enough to discern the minute digital spots!

[@VoidHalo]

I don't know why, but when you mentioned sewing machines I suddenly had a great urge to see you do a video about the mechanisms of how they work. I don't sew. I've never sewn. I haven't even seen a sewing machine in like 30 years. But for some reason I NEED to know how they work now.

[@tanya5322]

I won’t swear to it, but I think maybe he does 🤔 And if he hasn’t already done one, then I agree that he should.

[@vsevkrawczeniuk8019]

Your closed captioning is really good. I had it turned on accidentally. I usually don't use it, but I kept it on because it was entertaining to read. Really added to my enjoyment of the video. I really appreciate the effort you put into your captions. Thanks!

[@ChrisHoppe-wordmeme]

He does all his own subtitles as well. Great job every time, TC. 😉 ....the jokes and other Easter eggs are no extra charge! I always turn on CC for this channel because of this bit of bonus we get. 😊 Thanks!!

[@owensmith7530]

I've read this before but I keep forgetting to turn the subtitles on.

[@runed0s86]

@@ChrisHoppe-wordmeme I can't believe he got his movie idea approved!

[@dong6839]

17:51 are there any other vintage media geeks out there like me, who REALLY wanted to watch more of the sample clips?! Lol, each clip he played, I found myself immensely interested and wanting more! I wish I could watch the entire films! You should do what KZbinr FranLab was doing for a while, and you should start digitizing all of your vintage instructional, educational, and institutional-use films and upload them to KZbin, as sort of a archival library! I out pretty late in my life that I have a love for these kinds of weird, corky old films! They sort of bring me back to My childhood in school when "film strip day" was the highlight of my school week! Funny thing is, back then. I hated them! Like most kids, when the teacher would wheel out that big metal cart and that loud teeny Lo-Fi speaker would start bellowing out sound, I would groan in misery and I would lay my head down on my desk and cover my ears with my hoodie! But now that I'm In my mid-40s I found a strange love for these films and I wish I could go back and rewatch all of them with the interest and curiosity that they deserved!

[@mfbfreak]

22:36 a short snippet of Tom Disseveld and Kid Baltan - some dutch sound engineers from the Philips Natlab who made a record, using synthesizers they built themselves in the lab in the late 50s or early 60s.

[@AvantelWulf]

36:38 now that is a clever bit of writing. Love how you weave little jokes and references like that in your scripts

[@johnconstantine7442]

winning meaning bluray?

[@AvantelWulf]

@@johnconstantine7442 yes

[@Nukepositive]

29:18 Through the magic of having two of them...

[@knubbelidoo]

Did you catch the subtitles right at the end, after the blooper reel? Man’s a genius.

[@Eschguy]

I did 10 years at a movie theater and this brought back some memories. Theater projectors had a near identical setup (just a lot, LOT brighter). Good times...

[@MrZoomZone]

how did they get the extra brightness without burning the film?

[@Eschguy]

@@MrZoomZone Film moves fast. It was 35mm and if we had a wrap (where the film wasn't fed properly through the brain of those big platters and seizes up), you'd easily burn a frame or two in a couple of seconds.

[@tjselvey]

@@Eschguy nothing worse than being in the theater for a preview and see the brain wrap happen!

[@plonk420]

@@tjselvey but it's kinda satisfying if it's a d-bag manager that did the brainwrap and not you 🤣🤣

[@tanelehala6422]

@@MrZoomZone I reckon the frame of 35mm film is more than 4x the size of the frame of 16mm film, depending on perforation and soundtrack area and pulldown height so at the same luminance hitting the film and same luminance at the screen it's already projected more than 4x bigger.

[@SaiMorphX]

I was a projectionist for years before it all went digital. I missed that watching this!! now imagine that much biggest for 35mm, and lets skip reel to reel, and go platters, and you have one with a headache and it spins your movie into spaghetti!! Now you have an auditorium full of people waiting while you fix the movie, if it's in the middle of the movie, this means cutting it, winding it on another platter while not damaging it, splicing it back together, without making people wait to long.

[@theemjay]

I was obsessed with surround sound as a kid in the 90's. It's partially what got me into media production. Thank you for going into digital sound on film, which I already knew loads about but good to see it talked about. Excellent video!

[@chemicalman53]

Watching this on 4K is quite the Christmas gift thank you! Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays to all.

[@heronimousbrapson863]

I always remember the teacher with the patches on his elbows operating these things with the assistance of the class tech nerd.

[@davidg4288]

And having the take up reel hitting something, not turning, and unwinding the whole reel on the floor. Although the teacher would freak out the class tech nerd could usually recover that without much drama. I think the audio visual nerds sometimes rigged this on purpose just to demonstrate their mad skills.

[@crackwitz]

The smartest teachers just had the nerd do it all. The least stress for everyone.

[@GeorgeActon]

I was that nerd in the 1960s - the "projector monitor." The school projectors had a raised metal line showing the path to thread the film and indicating how much slack was needed. It was pretty simple. I remember one teaching showing me how to run a film backwards so we could watch a volcano sucking in lava!

[@w7777777s]

I think I learned to thread a projector very similar to the one he was using in the 1960s in elementary school.

[@JC-jv5xw]

@@GeorgeActon At primary school the teacher ran the whole film backwards after we had watched it. We were in hysterics - particularly in the section where people were eating.

[@broski5767]

I know this comment will be lost to the ether but I can’t help but say that, I’m amazed that a FILM being played on a projector can still dish out programming advice that’s useful to this very day and forever forward

[@issinkyi2867]

Wish I saw that film in high-school

[@Qexilber]

I just have to say: I looove your style. This is exactly the kind of story telling that resonates with me and kudos to the little fun details you always sprinkle in corresponding to the thing you are talking about. This video must have been a nightmare to edit with all the demonstrations of sound misalignment etc.

[@puzoldookie]

By far one of my channels on youtube. The info and the humor in great balance with great pace. You and Tasting History with Max Miller really hit that sweet spot for me with your style of presenting and I hope you keep on going strong.

[@Grandwigg]

I loved the cue marks in the video whole Alec was explaining it. The first time i heard about it was in a Columbo mystery where the timing of a change was key to a broken alibi. And The "thanks Destin" line was hilarious. His film series is really enjoyable. My grandad used to work at a DuPont plant where they made film backing.

[@jeffmcdonald730]

Columbo had lots of easter eggs for the photo nerd.

[@Grandwigg]

@@jeffmcdonald730 i loved that show.

[@rachentia]

Yes! Make Me A Perfect Murder! I watched a number of Columbo repeats on TV as a kid, and that one always stuck with me for exactly that reason. I was forever watching for those cue marks whenever I saw a movie after that, heh. I recently binge-watched a whole bunch of Columbo (thanks, COVID), and was very excited when I got to that one. Also discovered a couple of other episodes where some aspect of projection played a crucial part in solving the crime. Good stuff :) Oh and yes, I also loved that Alec put cue marks in this video too. Definitely made me smile when I spotted them.

[@Grandwigg]

@@rachentia that one and the one where the murderer had a ring he scratched bottles with "here and no further" are the ones i remember the most. And the Leonard Nimoy episode where he was a surgeon.

[@techydave]

I worked as a Projectionist from 2007 - 2013, yes, late 35mm bloomer. No one believed me the average film length was roughly 3-4 klms long, splicing 5-7 reels together became a passion for me as did for thousands of other Projectionists.. i became pretty obsessed with the whole 35mm thing... Loved it so much, still do deep down, best job ever...(from Australia) Great YT vid...