Tentacle SYNC E vs Tentacle TRACK E

[@slcantu]

Finally after looking at hundreds of videos about the Track E someone finally answered my question about if the headphone port will send timecode audio. I've been debating on pulling the trigger on the Track E for that exact reason. Thank you so much for clarifying it.

[@paulhuenefeld]

So glad you have some clarity! Yeah so many of the videos are when it was first released, but the ability to output timecode came in a recent firmware update. Thanks!

[@slcantu]

@@paulhuenefeld you’re welcome. Love your video of the horse guy. Looks great. I know you kind of touched on battery life. Would it last 8 hours recording and time code sync? That’s probably the most I would use it for my work.

[@paulhuenefeld]

@@slcantu Thanks! It was so fun to just be creative with video again! I haven't done exact testing on the battery life to know, but I honestly wouldn't worry about an 8hr day with it.

[@slcantu]

@@paulhuenefeld thanks will be getting one or a couple lol

[@maggie3458]

Leaving a timecode box plugged into your camera the whole time you're shooting is the best way to make sure there is no timecode drift. That's best practice so in that regard the Sync E isn't obsolete at all. I'm sure jamming timecode once and then using just the Track E will work most of the time but I wouldn't be willing to take that risk because the post production would be a nightmare and that would be costly and reflect reality badly on me haha

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes I definitely agree! I keep the Track E connected to the camera the whole day. I won’t use it as a timecode box and recorder at the same time, I will use it for a specific use case each time. Basically the cost difference is so close that it’s worth it to buy the Track E to have the ability to use it as a recorder or timecode box at any time 👍🏻👍🏻

[@teolopez]

Off the top of my head I think it would be rigging. I have a Kondor Blue caddy for the Sync E which allows me to mount it anywhere on my cage. This can be easily fixed by creating a new caddy for the Track E to mount. I see your points and all valid. I do like the size factor of the Sync E. If the next version of the Track E was slightly smaller then yea its a no brainer. I am all for making more mounting accessories for the Track E or adding a 1/4 20 to it. Ive used the Track E along with a battery powered shotgun mic like a Deity D3 Pro to place mics in different location inconspicuously. I used a pistol grip for the mic, a little tripod and a lot of gaffers tape to make that happen lol

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes! Rigging the Track E is very difficult and I haven’t found a great way to do it yet. A caddy similar to the one you mentioned would be ideal. If all else fails, GAFF TAPE! Haha!

[@whatnow5598]

@@paulhuenefeld have you found a way to rig it yet?

[@paulhuenefeld]

@@whatnow5598 Yeah everytime I need to rig it, I either use velcro or a bongo tie haha nothing too permanent...

[@AANasseh]

I still don't understand. If you don't have timecode on your cam (ie. A7s3), then you still need Sync E to manage audio sync code, right?

[@paulhuenefeld]

Not necessarily, Track E will do the same on my A7siii. The A7siii will just record the audio signal of timecode generated by both Sync E and Track E, then I edit in Resolve and there’s a function to convert audio timecode to metadata timecode 👍🏻👍🏻

[@RadicalModerate-tc2kh]

@@paulhuenefeldthanks for your response; but if you only use Track E to both end audio signal and record audio then your talent has to be next to the camera to get the audio based timecode into the camera since the attacker has to be close to the camera and connected to it, no? You are saying the A7S3 can jam Sync audio time code from Track E and then generated from Track E and run its own timecode while the attack E is at a distance on the talent recording audio?!! Would you trust the internal clock of the A7S3? In that case I wonder if automatic audio sync impostors not be more reliable than timecode… 😅

[@paulhuenefeld]

@@RadicalModerate-tc2kh So, yes I really don't trust any camera or audio recorder's internal clock. If I'm doing timecode then I want a timecode generator connected to each device at all times to not have any sort of drift over time. A common scenario is this: 2 cameras, 1 Zoom f6 with boom mic, and 2 lav mics. I'll then use 2 Track E for the lav mics, but also the point of the video is I'll just use 3 more Track E devices just for timecode generator for the 2 cameras and 1 Zoom f6 because the cost difference is so little between the Track E and Sync E. Yet you get so much more functionality with the Track E. Hope that makes sense!

[@RadicalModerate-tc2kh]

@@paulhuenefeldWow!! You are right!! And I just ordered a Track E with a Sync E ii. Now I wonder if I should return the Sync Eii and replace it with another Track E! Doesn’t that make more sense since it’s multi use now?! So that’s what you are saying!

[@paulhuenefeld]

@@RadicalModerate-tc2kh Yep exactly!

[@terrygriffin5201]

Sorry guys.... The new Deity is shipping soon and will compete nicely with this. PR-2. Stay tunned.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Oooh nice! You got your hands on it early?

[@mistercohaagen]

I can't wait! The fact that Tentacle caved to U.S. Patent trolls without providing some workaround is absolutely unacceptable. As soon as something is available that can compete, I'm ditching Tentacle forever. LTC signal is easy to generate with a $1 Arduino chip, the fact that they charge $200 for this is insulting. It's literally the guts of a "bluepill" stm32 development board in the box! Infuriating.

[@evanthecameraman]

My Deity BP-TRX recorders have been able to output TC forever, but they are no replacement for the dedicated TC-1 boxes I have. I would agree, the pricepoint is what makes the situation different. They should bring the SYNC E down to $149 to make it make sense.

[@paulhuenefeld]

I don’t think I knew the Diety recorders were able to do that as well! Yes, sync e price definitely needs to come down 👏🏻 Why do you think the TRX aren’t a replacement for the tc-1? Price?

[@alexandra-lane]

Fantastic video, thanks so much

[@paulhuenefeld]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@xxichikokoxx]

im so tempted to pick a few up to start doing weddings. seems like something thats a no brainer.

[@paulhuenefeld]

100% no brainer for weddings!

[@DmitriOcean]

I don't think that Track E can replace the Sync E yet. I've installed the new version of software and upon checking the app I found that you don't have any options of Sync E. The only things you can choose is what comes out of headphone output. There's no option for choosing the TC format and camera frame rates. It looks like you still need the Sync E box, but you don't have to install it on your camera and therefore less wire clutter. I use the track E as on camera mic recorder.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Good to know. I didn’t notice the difference in options when I looked 👍🏻 Thanks!

[@DmitriOcean]

@@paulhuenefeld here's what they have on their website. I'm in the US. I haven't tested it yet but if the signal will be muted during recording then it's a bummer. Please be aware that the timecode output feature is not a complete replacement for a SYNC E timecode generator. Although we have tested this feature thouroghly, we can't guarantee that it works with all third party audio and video devices. Therefore we recommend a test including post production workflow before shooting. In the US purchased TRACK E devices, the headphone output is muted when recording audio. Therefore timecode output will also be disabled.

[@paulhuenefeld]

@@DmitriOcean Yeah, I think they are probably just covering themselves from people being angry if it doesn't work in their specific scenario. I have had zero problem running the Track E as a timecode generator, BUT I never use it to record audio and generate timecode at the same time. There have been a couple instances were I've used it with my Sony a7siii into the audio port. Before the most recent firmware for this camera that now gives you timecode through usb with an adapter!!! I would connect a scratch mic to the Track E and then route the audio output of the Track E as such: Timecode--Left Channel // Mic--Right Channel That gives me timecode audio that can be converted to metadata timecode later while also having that right channel as a scratch audio if I need it as a backup. NOW, with the long awaited firmware for the A7siii, I can just embed metadata timecode using the usb adapter and still keep 2 channels of audio!!!!!

[@DmitriOcean]

@@paulhuenefeld I hear ya. I'm not a pro and still use a6500 which is a bit outdated but still a great camera. Currently I use sync e box and track e box mounted to the rig at the same time. I was hoping to eliminate the sync e box with this update, but no luck. I'll be selling the US unit and buy a European one. I love the product, but I hate those damn "patent infringements".

[@phuenefeld3]

@@DmitriOcean Yes I'm with you on the patents! So frustrating! So, how are you using the Track E mounted on your camera rig? Are you not using it for a traditional LAV setup???

[@boutthere3374]

It's nice benefit to be able to use the Track E as a Sync E but I don't think it's a smart choice over having the Sync E(s). Just plug the Sync E's into the cameras and leave them there for the duration and , for me, it's been fool proof(and I am a novice fool....lol). Those Tentacle guys need to be commended for their obvious passion for their products. I wish all others would follow their example. Great product. Enjoyed the video.Cheers.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Thanks! Yes, I’m very excited to see what else Tentacle creates!

[@DmitriOcean]

US market is out of luck. Just tested this update. TC output muted as soon as you press record. My advice is get yourself a European version. I wonder if Canada is getting fully featured units.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes, I would love input from someone with a European version! I just replied to your previous comment, hope that clears us how I've been using it! Thanks!

[@boutthere3374]

Yes the Canadian ones are full featured.

[@DmitriOcean]

@@boutthere3374 super! Do you know any Tentacle dealer close to NY border by any chance?

[@terrygriffin5201]

Contact me. I got the International version with the W lav pro mic included. Works with my wireless lav setup and syncs with Adode Premiere, FC Pro, and Resovle via their TC Sync software. .1 click and you import the xml files into your Video editing program. So much better and like I said, I got 4 lav mics ...wireless recording on each box and are synced perfectly.

[@jeffrey3205]

I'd love and option where they scrap the time code and added wireless mic capabilities to compete with the rodes wireless pro ii

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes that would be super handy!

[@DmitriOcean]

The whole idea of this product is to free filmmaker from wireless system shortcomings like loss of signal or frequency interference. I'd never go back to wireless mics.

[@ChrisFlores22]

Great video! For me, my s1h & gh6 both take jam sync via the flash socket and I still have full audio via the mic jack. On the gh6 with the xlr1, I get 4 channels of audio (2 xlr and stereo mic jack) it turns into 24bit 96khz audio if needed plus the external timecode. I tried it on a shoot and thought my zoom f3 sounded better for sure in post but having the flexibility of baking in quality fast audio is helpful. I just wished Final Cut would add audio timecode read!!!!! That would make my life so much easier than going through the tentacle app. Usually for me it’s easier to embed the timecode and render new media since xml workflow has been bonkers for me 🤷🏻‍♂️ just takes a bit to render out new files but once in post it’s instant syncing!

[@paulhuenefeld]

Oh cool! I never knew that about Panasonic cameras being able to jam sync via the flash socket! Such a good idea! I have actually never worked in Final Cut Pro, but that limitation would make me want to take “Pro” out of the name hahaha

[@whatnow5598]

Amazing video I like the Dehancer-looking effects you added as well. I have a question for you sir: so I can run the track e or sync e through a TRS to micro usb cable instead of the 3.5mm jack correct? Does that mean I could then use the ECM-B1M through the hot shoe on the 2nd channel? (it usually disables the 3.5mm jack)

[@paulhuenefeld]

Thanks so much! Yes that sounds right, but really only with the A7siii, Fx3, and Fx30 because I don't think any other Sony mirrorless cameras are able to accept timecode through usb yet. I have not tried that specific setup, so I'm just theorizing that it will work hahaha!

[@max7w311]

The tentacle prices on BHphoto are the following. Tentacle Sync TRACK E Pocket Audio Recorder with Lavalier Mic and Timecode Support, 349.99. Tentacle Sync TRACK E Pocket Audio Recorder Basic Box with Timecode Support (Recorder Unit Only) 249.99 Tentacle Sync Omnidirectional Lavalier Microphone with Locking 3.5mm Connector (Black) 65 so if you buy them separately you save $35. Thats just confusing though.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Wow that is confusing! Prices are always changing and you never know why hahaha!

[@dwoodog]

I just bought a track E, and the Tentacle brand 3.5mm to USB-C cable, and can confirm it will not sync with the DJI Osmo Action 4.....at least I don't get the time code synced conformation screen. I have a different cable on order to try that. Very frustrating when it can come down to cables.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Ah yeah very frustrating! Sorry! I haven’t had a chance to try out the Osmo Action 4 yet…

[@skelkator]

Does the timecode audio out work while recording on the US version? I don't have one yet but i thought the audio out is disabled when recording due to some patent.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Oh gosh! I am really not sure about that! I should have tested it!

[@mistercohaagen]

No it doesn't. The output is muted entirely once the Track E is recording, no matter what setting you select as the output's purpose. Extremely hobbled for us Americans.

[@ramonbmovies]

But don't you have to have one tentacle box PER DEVICE? So, if you're recording audio on an external recorder, and you have the Sony a7s iii, you have to have a timecode box connected to the camera, and then you have to have a timecode box on the external recorder. Right? In that case, the dual timecode box set of the Sync E is actually cheaper. Or am I wrong?

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes, I'm looking at prices now and it's all different than when I made this video! There wasn't even an option for the Dual Sync E package so that definitely lowers the price per unit! In my opinion, the Track E still offers so much more functionality for not much more cost. ALSO, PRICE UPDATE! The single unit Track E is only $20 more than the Sync E!

[@KayakFishingAddict]

Is there an option to output the timecode audio signal via the USB-C port?

[@paulhuenefeld]

That would be amazing! But no I don't think so....

[@Marco_Shouldve]

Does the new tentacle cable work for the a7iv as well? Or is the a7iv still need to use the 3.5mm jack?

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yeah I’m pretty sure the A7IV still can only do timecode into the 3.5mm audio input. Sorry!

[@Marco_Shouldve]

@@paulhuenefeld thank you!

[@Kevr0]

Amazing!

[@paulhuenefeld]

Thanks!

[@OverlandEdits]

Do you know if once you pair the sync e and track e. Or two track e units, do they auto pair and sync when you turn them on again? Can you just power them up and start recording? Or do you need to use the app every time to sync everything up?

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes, I believe that you have re-sync the devices each time they are powered on.

[@MJDreams]

I'm new to video/audio. I have lumix g9. So if I would like to make movie with 2 people with two units of Track E audio recorder what option I have to sync audio and video (II use da vinci) in easy and fast way without having Sync E for timecode generation?

[@MJDreams]

also what about this "Please be aware that the timecode output feature is not a complete replacement for a SYNC E timecode generator let alone the. Although we have tested this feature thouroghly, we can't guarantee that it works with all third party audio and video devices. Therefore we recommend a test including post production workflow before shooting" . 'In the US purchased TRACK E devices, the headphone output is muted when recording audio. Therefore timecode output will also be disabled."

[@paulhuenefeld]

I would think in that scenario, you would still need to sync audio and video manually. You could use a slate or audio waveform with camera scratch audio. Then the primary benefit of using the Track E devices would be the internal 32bit float audio recording.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Yes that is definitely a limitation in how I presented it, but I may have not explained exactly how I was using it correctly. I wasn’t recording on the track e while also generating timecode for the camera. It was able to pass through the audio of a mic plugged in while still generating timecode and the audio from that mic was recorded to the right channel of the camera audio and left channel had the timecode audio signal. Hopefully that makes more sense! This is simply a workaround for the case of loosing scratch audio on your camera when using the track e instead of sync e because the sync e has a scratch mic on the unit itself. Thanks!

[@johnpaullennon1199]

All the other time code gen boxs should have a switched 3.5mm input trs jack that allows you to plug in a mono or stereo input signal from say a mini shotgun mic. This way it would disconnect the carp internal live mic and sum a stereo track to mono track to pair with the timecode for input into your camera. Playing around with Y spiltters when I am paying $150-200+, another 3.5mm trs jack is what 25 cents with the disconnect? It should also be able to pass thru voltage low power from the cam or 48v. A recessed switch would change the stereo 3.5mm to an xlr wiring wise.

[@paulhuenefeld]

Love the idea! 👏🏻