Tesla NACS Won't Work As A Standard Here's Why

[@dalet9849]

Umm, I don’t think Tesla “decided” to use ccs2 in europe, they were required to.

[@NicolasRaimo]

They weren’t required to use type 2 in the UK they chose to… they could of kept the type 2 DC charging as the EU rule was to use type 2 nothing to say they had to use ccs2

[@trondialsingh594]

UK is in Europe an tesla cars will be driving across Europe from UK

[@scottsorensen4840]

The UK was probably still in the EU when it was decided that CCS2 would be standard. Then the UK decided to shoot itself in the foot with Brexit.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@NicolasRaimo No they could not. CCS2 is the EU Standard. Nobody cares whether the UK Brexited or not, it does not matter.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 Tesla started using type 2 long before they are legally required to

[@scottsorensen4840]

Nobody ever implied that NACS (pronounced “nacks “ not “nackass”) should be a worldwide standard.

[@matthewwiemken7293]

I think he is implying that Tesla lovers are saying it should be a worldwide standard, but like you, I have not heard such nonsense from that community. I guess if anyone said NACS for all, it would have the come from ignorance of all the different electrical standards.

[@erichchan3]

LOL nackass sounds so Australian pronunciation

[@skicourt8761]

I have worked 40 years as an electrician in the USA. ALL even small businesses have typically 480 Volt 3 phase power to distribute.

[@kng128]

You’re right - he’s oblivious to the US electrical distribution. There are quite a few buildings I come across that are 208v/3ph.

[@bill_heywood]

I don’t think even Tesla are suggesting NACS for Europe but it will win in the US We will end up with NACS in the US, CCS2 in Europe , ChaDeMo in Japan and whatever China decides to use

[@GreenDriveIndia]

India is already CCS2

[@erichchan3]

Tesla never proposed it for Europe. The video is making an issue out of a non-issue brought up by nobody. Europe will continue to use CCS2 which is fine because I don't see the need for Tesla to create a "NACS CCS2" type of connector just to be unique and have to deal with countries bureaucracies. Either way AC chargin is always going to be crappier than DC charging and DC charging needs 2 pins only.

[@wineberryred]

NACS stands for North American Charging Standard, Nobody but Nobody is saying we should make it a worldwide standard.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Check twitter

[@jimmurphy5355]

Nobody with half a brain - but there are plenty of commenters on the interwebs with less than half a brain....

[@tedmoss]

@@JorgTheElder This has nothing to do with the size of the plug, it is the material. That is one of the reasons the Tesla connector is better, it is easier to use less material, hence more flexible.

[@tedmoss]

@@jimmurphy5355 Or even no brain at all.

[@Techridr]

You are correct. Although, it is not limited to the North America. Japan for instance has NACS

[@ryanchappell5962]

As far as I know, Tesla has no intention of bringing NACS into Europe You might as well go DC for high power anyway. You’ll need to have a powerful DC power supply somewhere. Might as well offload that from the vehicle and put it on the charger side. This is more efficient because if you put it on the car, it won’t get much usage. For most people, overnight charge at home with AC power is more than enough and then they supercharge occasionally.

[@miickyp]

Mate I don't think anyone is expecting NACS to come to Europe. CCS2 is the standard here & that won't be changing anytime soon!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Quite a few were saying so online

[@miickyp]

@@NicolasRaimo yeah there's a lot of idiots out there mate!

[@jakekarll8294]

This video didn’t even need to be made. Tesla isn’t pushing the Tesla connector to be the world wide connector. In North America, the Tesla connector is by far the most used connector overall. They specifically named it North American Charging Standard, specifying that it is meant to become the standard in North America. CCS1 is absolute garbage and largely the cause of DCFC in the US, it’s not just the hardware. CCS2 is better, and it’s the standard in Europe because it actually works unlike it’s North American counterpart.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Tesla isn’t pushing it your right but many Tesla fan boys in the EU however

[@davidhuber6251]

In the U.S. at home I charge at 220 volts times 32 amps (on a 50 amp breaker if I recall) which works out to about 7KW. this is plenty good for me. This requires only 3 runs of copper. 3 phase would require at least 4 runs (probably 5) of slightly lighter gage copper. At a supercharger I can get up to 350KW at least, however the car wont accept 350 for very long due to limitations of the battery itself. I think NACS will work fine in the states. I do wish we would pass legislation for car manufacturers to have a regular granny charger on the vehicle that doesn't require an expensive adaptor.

[@RWBHere]

That's basically correct. In the U.K. we run a nominal 230 Volts at up to 32 Amps on standard single phase domestic ring circuits. That gives us about 7 kW. The supply to my house is usually between 240 and 250 Volts. A 3 phase Delta connection requires 4 wires, one of which is Earth. There is no Neutral. Wire cross sections will be the same sizes as in single phase circuits. That gives a nominal 22 kW. So only one additional wire is needed from the power outlet for a U.K. three phase connection. Very few urban domestic properties have a 3-phase supply. And the cost of having one routed to your house is very high, since all urban power cables here are buried. You would have to pay for roads and footpaths to be dug up and made good, as well as the extra cost of cables and trunking. (Normally, only low voltage wires are used overhead in urban areas, and these include telephones, a few old wired radio cables, and some internet feeds.) I agree with you about legislation being needed for single phase granny cables to be supplied with all new electric cars. Buying them from various third parties means that there is the additional cost (around £200 here for a cheap one) plus the risk of buying something which is dangerous.

[@tedmoss]

Why pay for something you will never use? If an individual wants something they pay, not everyone.

[@PurpleSideBlack]

You don't live in North America. Due to this, you haven't experienced the difficulties in charging here. Charging is further complicated by there being Chad, CCS1 and NACS. Then there J1772 and NACS for Level 2. The issue is there are more NACS than CCS1/Chademo. The CCS network is unreliable. In my province of NB in Canada, there are a good number of locations with CCS1/chad but only 1 person can charge at once. Then next to it is a level 2 which is 6kw. You are going to have a rough time trying to travel in a CCS1 or Chad car. Now if you own a Tesla like I do... charging is plentiful and easy. Instead of 1 x 50kw plug at the charging locations, there's 8 x 150 or 8 x 250kw Tesla Chargers. They are always working. Meanwhile, the CCS stations are often down for 6 months at a time and there's line ups. Opening Tesla SC network and having adapters will help CCS1 drivers alleviate range/charging anxiety and make their trip better and they can pretend they own a Tesla. Tesla NACS uses the same conductors for AC and DC. We don't use 3 phase AC on Level 2 here in North America like you guys do across the pond. So there no need for a CCS2 type plug or the Type 2.

[@mowcowbell]

Your argument doesn't apply to North America. NACS is far easier to use than the clunk CCS connector. Have you ever rented a Tesla and used a NAC Supercharger? Super easy to plug in, and cables are easy to manage.

[@NicolasRaimo]

We rented a Tesla Model 3 in Hawaii to decide should i buy one in the UK 🔋🔌🚗 kzbin.info/www/bejne/aarPqKqCe5WjgsU

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

@@NicolasRaimo i didn’t see you charging in that video.

[@QALibrary]

Nicolas UK has not used 240v since Jan 2003 - UK supply is official 230v 50Hz It was first agreed upon in 1994 The voltage used throughout Europe (including the UK) has been harmonised since January 2003 at a nominal 230v 50 Hz (formerly 240V in UK, 220V in the rest of Europe) but this does not mean there has been a real change in the supply. that is because... In the UK, the declared voltage and tolerance for an electricity supply is 230 volts -6%, +10%. This gives an allowed voltage range of 216.2 volts to 253.0 volts.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The UK harmonised voltage is yes with the EU however ours is 230-6% and +10%. It’s basically our way of changing nothing and keeping 240 if you look at the UK voltage it sits at an average of about 240v right now for my home it’s at 245

[@bryanlewens2068]

We put in solar 12 years ago and then discovered that when the sun came out the PVs cut out. We then realised that our local supply was working at just under 253 volts and our supply was enough to push the voltage over the upper limit. It took a few months before it was sorted out. State of the local infrastructure was something we didn’t appreciate to start with.

[@inge46]

At some point, AC to DC converters will become affordable and compact enough to be installed in street chargers and will provide 22 kW+ of power via DC instead of AC. So 3-phase support might not be that relevant.

[@tedmoss]

Since all lighting is single phase anyway. Don't forget in many places the other phases are available even if used as single phase. These chargers are being installed in England right now even if A.C..

[@edc1569]

If they are so cheap and compact why not stick one in the car.

[@synergydpm]

Interesting video, thanks. While it’s true that the North American standard wall outlet is 110/120 volts 60hz, we also have 220/240 volts in all our homes to run the stoves, dryers, ac, and other high power requirements. My Tesla wall connector is direct wired at 220 volts and 48 amps (60 amp breaker). This delivers a max of 10,560 kWh of power. This is plenty of power to charge an EV at home in a couple of hours. In fact, I adjust the charge amps down to 24 amps on-screen setting or through the smart phone app. The NACS (Tesla) plug, as pointed out in other comments, is way more convenient to use than CCS1. I also understand that it is rated up to 1,000 kWh charging. NOTE: Today, many commercial over-the-road (Class 8) diesel trucks fuel up their dual saddle fuel tanks simultaneously at refueling stations. Why couldn’t BEV trucks do the same? They could be utilizing the same infrastructure as the nearby auto EV.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Your 240 is a 2 phase system with no neutral ours is 240v to ground

[@synergydpm]

@@NicolasRaimo You are correct

[@matthewwiemken7293]

@@NicolasRaimo Sigh, it's single phase 240v that is split 180 degrees. We don't have 2 phase going to our homes.

[@matthewwiemken7293]

@@synergydpm Not quite:)

[@tedmoss]

@@NicolasRaimo No, its not, it is a split phase system, your system was built after ours.

[@807800]

I would say 3-phase is overrated. Yes, you can charge up to 22 kW, but most EVs aren't equipped with such high power onboard charger. The two top EVs, Tesla and VW, only support up to 11 kW. And single phase can easily handle that. Of course, in UK and DE, the most you can get is around 7 kW in a single phase, but that's plenty for overnight charging. And if you have solar panels to charge your EV on the weekend or day off, it's most likely below 7 kW system anyway, and it's better to put that watts into your EV, rather than back to the grid. Forgot to mention that NACS support 1000V and "above 900A continuously with a non-liquid cooled vehicle inlet".

[@NicolasRaimo]

I 3 phase charge my Tesla at work regular 7kw would be far too slow for most our use case as a work vehicle

[@cjmillsnun]

Many cars can do 11kW three phase, and the Renault Zoe, Megane and the latest Kangoos can all do 22kW. I can see 3 phase becoming more popular as battery capacity increases and 22kW becoming the standard for destination charging.

[@807800]

@@NicolasRaimo If you need to regularly charge your EV at 11kW at your workplace, then that's definitely a niche case.

[@roger1818]

@@NicolasRaimo If you need to rapid charge, a DCFC is your best bet. Higher power onboard chargers add significant weight to the vehicle and it’s cost is sunk into the vehicle. A standalone charger may have a higher upfront cost, but it can be amortized over multiple vehicles. For the average person, a 7kW charger can give them enough charge overnight to cover all the driving they do in a day.

[@807800]

@@cjmillsnun I don't see battery getting larger. The cheapest Model Y can already get you well over 400 km. That's plenty for your everyday commute. And an increase in efficiency would just mean it getting smaller. Like Tesla's next-gen vehicle is expected to be smaller. If you do need destination charging, you would most likely using DC fast charging and there's plenty of that, and it would only grow.

[@ai4px]

commercial sites , light and heavy industrial in America have always had 3 phase 208v of even 3 phase 277v (277 is very rare, but exists to the bane of some Chevy bolt owners living in apartments). Tesla will charge from 120,208,240,277. Where we do not have three phase is in a residential setting. There are three phase distribution lines down all of our highways, but entering a neighborhood or branching down a side road, the power company will only bring single phase power. Very often there are 10's of miles of homes fed from a single phase. So 3phase exists in commercial properties and is very unlikely to be used in homes because the infrastructure for it does not come to my doorstep.

[@NickAskew]

I must admit that I didn't realise that the UK were introducing 3 phase into homes. Our Dutch house had 3 phase and is getting on for forty years old. I have a charger but it's only single phase.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The Uk always had 3 phase however it tended to be commercial places or large homes however now new developments are getting it as standard to try balance the grid

[@NickAskew]

@@NicolasRaimo Yep, I know it was present on farms and the metering required farmers to balance the phase usage. In homes we don't appear to be penalised for phase imbalance.

[@edc1569]

It has disadvantages tho, can complicate solar and battery systems either reducing their efficacy or increasing cost.

[@NickAskew]

@@edc1569 Yes, up til now my solar is single phase. However they are planning to change the billing and I worry that they will effectively be forcing me to introduce a 3 phase inverter and a battery system.

[@ai4px]

The initial release of Tesla cars in the EU had the American Tesla type plug. Tesla added CCS2 to their superchargers upon the release of Model 3.

[@NicolasRaimo]

UK cars never had Tesla plug, roadster was type 1 and first model S was type 2 it’s never been NACS

[@ai4px]

@@NicolasRaimo I'm not sure about UK specifically, but in the EU Tesla most certainly did not use CCS to start. They had a Tesla plug and the superchargers had two cords once they started conversion. There were even signs asking the M3 drivers to avoid using the older type plugs so that the MS and MX users could access them.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@ai4px all EU and UK cars had SAME plug which was a type 2 plug, Tesla did modify it to allow DC fast charge via 2 of the type 2 pins, to stop normal type 2 cars using SC they added a notch in the SC and the tesla port to standard cars couldn't plug in by mistake and tesla could still plug in to standard type 2. It HAS NEVER been the NACS port in America NEVER always type 2 then went to CCS, your still see some legacy SC with 2 cables one is CCS and the other is type 2.

[@erichchan3]

Did the video owner not understand what NACS standards for? Its called North American Charging Standard for a reason because only in North America do they use 1 phase AC power. It is clear that Europe and minus Asia uses 3 phase power so therefore the NACS connector is not compatible since it does not have extra pins to support the 3 phase AC power. The argument that NACS doesn't work in Europe is valid and so I don't see what the point of the video is. China already uses their own GB/T standard so it doesn't really matter if NACS only works in North America.

[@stevemichael82]

In a long term view AC charging should be abandoned. It makes more sense to remove the AC charger from the electric cars and install it as a DC-wallbox. So with NACS we have a very elegant solution for this time. The clunky design of CCS, where AC is not needed anymore, is then completely nonsense.

[@tedmoss]

Most people that commented know that this argument is false, the two systems are roughly equivalent and have been for many years. We invented the electric system in the first place, the differences are largely based on patent avoidance. Tesla's plug is a better design because the engineers took advantage of our system, that is all there is to it. We balance our 3-phase system by putting houses (loads) evenly on each phase. Three phase is available for large loads simply by running the missing phase over to where it is needed. We also use 60 Hz which saves money on steel from hysteresis losses (core heating). Much higher voltages give you an advantage by saving copper and having less I squared R (resistance) losses. (Tesla is going to 48 Volts low and 800 Volts high). Sort of like having your cake and eating it too.

[@Techridr]

You just said a lot of what I wanted to say. Thanks for saving me time. :)

[@yolo_burrito]

Look up SAE J3068 in the US.

[@GeorgeIvanchikov]

Sorry mate, but it dosent seem like you know what you're talking about. we already have 3 phase power in the US and its used for DC fast charing.

[@edc1569]

Does NACS enforce socket location? News to me?

[@Techridr]

of course not

[@matthewwiemken7293]

CCS2 makes a lot of sense in Europe, but CCS1 in the US is awful antichrist to CCS2. As for 3 phase in the US someday, we can move over to CCS2 and skip CCS1 because they are totally different and incompatible connectors that would need to be switched out anyway:) NACS plug works in split phase and single phase environments now and is reliable and elegant for the North American markets.

[@a1peck]

Can the NACS do vehicle to grid? If not how will Ford do it now? I think its better to have the DC on separate pins for V to G.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Some say No others say Maybe

[@matthewwiemken7293]

Yes, NACS can do vehicle to grid and no Tesla currently enables this feature, but others like ford would most likely enable the feature for the pickup:)

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

YOU think? Unless YOU are an expert at something, it doesn’t really matter what YOU “think”.

[@tedmoss]

Why not? Why better to have a redundant separate and not needed set of connectors?

[@tedmoss]

@@matthewwiemken7293 An unused selling feature.

[@Dularr]

The US has 240 volt outlets. This will be the standard for type 2 chargers. The real test will be 1000 volts or 800 watt recharging. My guess it will workout to two different plugs. To keep the recharging speeds separate.

[@tedmoss]

I doubt anyone would want to charge at 800 Watts.

[@Dularr]

@@tedmoss you do have the Porsche Taycan. 800 volts. Charging at 270 kWh. Let's see if the Cybertruck can hit 350 or 400 kWh.

[@yvs6663]

i hope Europe sticks to CCS or something that can at least be converted with a cheap adapter. because we don't need another standard that makes some chargers useless to certian people. its already shitty enough to not be able to charge a chademo car, specially if those places would be closing a gap in the infrastructure.

[@sambira]

Tesla didn't start out in Europe with the CCS2 plug at all. They had to convert to CCS2 because the EU told them they had to.

[@NicolasRaimo]

That’s wrong, Tesla first came here with the roadster which used a weird plug never seen before, they then went to type 2 in the EU for model S and X, they could under the EU ruling of kept the type 2 and carried on using it for DC charging instead they opted for ccs

[@777Outrigger]

Volvo going NACS in North America. First European car company to do so. I expected this from Volvo. They're a little more nimble than VW, and even Mercedes and BMW.

[@hedleypepper1838]

How many cars accept 3 phase ??? Its fine that the ccs is caoable of it. But useless if cars are not designed to utilise it

[@NicolasRaimo]

All new cars sold in the EU have 3 phase 11kw minimum and quite a few handle 22kw... It a lot of EU counties its a LEGAL requirement the charger is 3phase

[@ecdriver6595]

It’s settled then. NACS is made for the US market.

[@jadziadax8658]

I don't think AC charging for trucks is any good. Those vehicles will be driving around with half-MWh batteries mostly, so even 32A 3-phase charging, means something like a day to fill it up, which is useless. MCS is the way forward for trucks and buses. As for the nightmare of CCS-plugs, I'm not sure how we get out of that mess. If they placed the 2 DC pins on top, they could have had small DC and AC plugs. Now we have stupidly large DC-plugs, which also sometimes fail to connect because of the data pins on the top and the cable being too heavy, plus we have stupid AC charges which most often do not even have a cable attached. Both things need to change.

[@NicolasRaimo]

For the large semi trucks YES but the mid size trucks it won't be too bad most will do all the driving in the DAY and be plugged at depo all night

[@edc1569]

The clue is in the name, it’s not a standard for the rest of the world, it’s not trying to be, it will never be. It’ll be a very good standard for NA tho.

[@joshualewis3337]

"as standard if the developer specs it" 🤔 Well I recently moved into a new build - guess the developer just didn't spec it even though it's fitted as standard. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@luokerenzz]

Well I have to say 3-phase does not really matter because even if you can deliver massive power through a 3-phase connector to the car, the car still needs to have an AC-to-DC converter to convert that in order to charge the battery. The more power you need to convert, the bulkier the converter is. And the converter is a dead weight to carry around when not in use. That is why all high wattage charging is done through DC so the bulkier converter part can be placed within or near the charger it self not carrying by the car.

[@rj8u]

Do you want to use your KZbin channel collateral if Tesla NACS becomes the standard?

[@NicolasRaimo]

For the US? No for the the EU? Yes

[@Comrade-q5o]

Actually tesla was forced to 🤔

[@NicolasRaimo]

Forced to?

[@roger1818]

@@NicolasRaimo I guess the other option was to stop selling cars in Europe if they didn’t want to adopt CCS2.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@roger1818 they were not forced to add ccs they only had to have type2 and that ruling was after Tesla already adopted type 2 in the UK

[@glennpulford4860]

NACS for North America and type 2 for everywhere else. It’s not rocket science!

[@4gus]

3-phase? I'm waiting for 8-phase

[@78katz]

Well this video has aged like a jar of mayo in a Death Valley heat wave. Poor Nick

[@NicolasRaimo]

How has it? Never said the US won’t go nacs just did the UK and EU won’t that hasn’t and won’t change

[@steverobbins4872]

You're right, 3-phase allows faster AC charging. But I don't think that puts NACS at much of a disadvantage because DC is used for fast charging. But you're also right that NACS will not become the standard outside of North America, simply because all the infrastructure already uses CCS.

[@leexgx]

The problem with the USA, using the Tesla plug is that they're doing it because they Think It's Going to make the none Tesla charges more reliable, changing the plug does not fix the problem with the charging stations themselves Three phase charging is only important if you're doing it at home and you own a Tesla or rarely supported car (most vehicles don't have a three-phase AC charger in the vehicle) The question I have is three phase required for an AC to DC charger (witch would make the tesla plug significantly better if the charger could do ac to dc and the plug is smaller) The only issue I can see with the Tesla plug is does it support water cooling which is already spec into the ccs2 to allow higher power transfer

[@TheWinstn60]

Exactly right take all the AC to DC conversion off the car

[@JohnRoss1]

@@TheWinstn60 The reason is access to the Tesla Supercharger Network was finally offered on terms they could accept. The manufacturers previously just had to supply a fuel tank for a car. A lot of new issues for them to make or buy batteries ,BMS systems, electric motors etc. They are not remotely interested in providing fast charging too.

[@djtaylorutube]

Even with a Tesla, it's not that useful with 3 phase. My Model Y would only get 11kW charging. Had it been 22kW, I might have been tempted to get 3 phase installed but going from 7kW to 11kW isn't even double.

[@tedmoss]

They will go to the more reliable Tesla charger system, not just the plug.

[@tedmoss]

@@JorgTheElder So I have an 800 Volt battery and a 240 Volt wall outlet, now what? What about the laws that apply to electrical connections?

[@roxter299roxter7]

Standard on North America is 240 volt.

[@NicolasRaimo]

That’s over 2 lines thou, EU is 240 to earth

[@makerspace533]

Yes, in residential and light commercial 120VAC each side of ground (neutral) This provides 240VAC with a much reduced chance of accidental electrocution.

[@RichardJansen-j6q]

This is a B.S. video for clowns. Tesla rules the ev industry . . they built it. They are generations ahead of all legacy auto companies . . Tesla has the best engineers in the world.

[@TimBorg]

CCS2 to CHAdeMO adapter now exists so who cares about tesla's

[@NicolasRaimo]

NACS will be the US standard for sure

[@Bob_Sacamano]

Shave it.

[@petersilva037]

um... for heavy vehicle, the entire world is in the process of agreeing on Megawatt Charging System. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt_Charging_System Everybody seems to agree on this, instead of having different standard for Europe, China, Japan, and North America.

[@JasonEDragon]

In North America, going from standard residential split phase and upgrading to 3-phase power doesn't get you as far as in Europe - only roughly 1.5x instead of 3x. That is because standard leg voltages are still 120 Volts in each system. Additionally, it is often less than 1.5 x for individual circuits. In split phase the 2 legs are 180 degrees out of phase - so you get 240 Volts for circuits that use the legs and no neutral. The legs in 3 phase are 120 degrees apart, so when we use 2 legs of a 3 phase system you only get 208 Volts. The higher power devices that use this are generally designed to accept either voltage - but the the split phase setup gives you more available power for a circuit. So, to have more power available in homes we go with more amps - with a 200 Amp split phase service capacity being common. A small number of very large homes are more likely to go to 400 Amp split phase service instead of thinking of 3-phase. Commercial properties and large multifamily buildings are where you see 3-phase in North America.

[@stephenshoihet2590]

208 is not the only 3ph voltage though.

[@tedmoss]

And also 480 Volts.

[@JasonEDragon]

@@tedmoss Indeed, that's true. But with 480 Volt 3 phase you are only talking about large or industrial buildings and not residential. There does have to be support in the onboard vehicle chargers for the different voltages and phases, so considering the popularity of the different available power sources is important. Perhaps a better answer is had by looking at how power is distributed in the different regions. In Europe, as I understand, multiple homes can often each tap into a 240 Volt 3 phase cable at the street. In North America the standard is for an overhead power cable or in-ground cabinet to distribute 120/240 split phase. To get 3 phase in North America you typically get your own pole with a set of 3 transformers for yourself - a custom, more expensive option for higher demand situations. So, 3-phase will likely never become such a common option in North America to justify is adoption in regular vehicles. I could see it possibly happening for industrial vehicles, if those adopted their own high output plug.

[@timothystockman7533]

In my experience here in the US, I've never seen 3-phase in a residential situation. Residential 3-phase may exist, but it is extremely rare. Most commercial is 120/208 3 phase. Once in a while I've seen 277/480 or 240 "high leg". Large industrial tends to be 13.2 kV primary. I believe the thought is that one can go up to 19.2 kW (80A/240V single phase) in an AC charging situation, which is, in fact, far more than is required at home for almost all situations. (I have friends who exclusively charge 120V/12A at home; I charge 240V/16A.) I guess one might shoehorn a 19.2 kW EVSE into a 200A panel, but I'm guessing that if one needs that kind of EV recharge capability at home, they will have or retrofit 400A single-phase service, which the electric company is happy to provide almost all the time. Since most EVs are charged mostly at home, a 3-phase onboard charger makes less sense in North America. Business offices and destination chargers, where the vehicle is likely to be plugged in a while, are OK with single phase 208/240, typically at 32A, but they could offer up to 80A. A stepdown transformer is required for 277/480 and obviously for 13.2 kV primary. I know of one site which uses a transformer so vehicles see 240V instead of 208V, I'm not sure this is economically justified. For fast charging, external DC chargers allow delivery for cars to be somewhat standardized, regardless of how AC in the site is wired. Therefore NACS is a good fit for the North American EV market.

[@tedmoss]

@@timothystockman7533 I don't know where you got your numbers from; I put in a 240 Volt 60 Amp circuit (48 Amp usable) to charge my Tesla from a 200 Amp service. That's 11.520 kW, for clarity that's 11 and 1/2 kW.

[@Longsnowsm]

There is no reason NACS should be the standard anywhere outside of North America. CCS1 is a steaming pile of dung here. Very bad reliability, and practically no infrastructure. Tesla has the largest installed charging network and it is reliable. However this is a bad idea to have everyone using Tesla Superchargers. We don't need a Tesla monopoly. Slapping a NACS plug on existing CCS1 chargers isn't going to fix this. The chargers are not reliable. Until the 3rd party charger manufacturers get their act together we have a serious problem. Worse yet, even if they starting manufacturing new chargers today that are reliable the time it is taking to get these things built and installed is not going to happen any time soon. I don't know who is pushing NACS as a worldwide standard, but that is just nonsense talking. Japan has it's standard, China has it's standard, Europe has it's own standard... North America has this CCS1 nonsense which doesn't work currently. Changing the plug doesn't fix this. This is the real problem. Change the entire electric grid for 3 phase? LOL We can't even get them to build out the existing grid let alone overhaul for 3 phase... Not going to happen. They are going to mess around until we are facing rolling blackouts before someone will clamor for some sort of emergency to do something about the state of the grid. NACS as a standard plug for North America? Fine, that is just a plug and port. It doesn't address the problems that have the manufacturers making these deals with Tesla. You can mandate pull through chargers so it does not matter which side the plug is on. You know, like a gas station. There is no mandate about where the gas filler is at on an ICE car. Why is that? Pull through pumps on islands. WHY is it we think we need to reinvent the wheel for EV's? The gas station model is the model to follow for charging also. We are complicating things for the sake of complication with EV's. You keep CCS2. In North America we will dump CCS1, and still be wondering why changing the plug didn't fix this problem... LOL

[@ccibinel]

Japan, and South Korea both do not use 3 phase to the home and have similar power grid voltages that could effectively use NACS. We just need Japan to move on from it's hydrogen foley. Apart from these, ya NACS really doesnt make sense outside north america.

[@georgepelton5645]

To answer what will be the standard for commercial trucks, I am pretty sure it will be DC. Take something like a Tesla Semi with a 800 kWh battery, that would require a 100 kW charger for an 8 hour overnight charge. That would be a big and heavy charger. Eliminating the on-vehicle charger saves cost and weight. The latter is important to allow as much payload weight as possible. The new MCS, or MegaWatt Charging Standard, from CharIN, is designed for fast charging of large vehicles. It is theoretically capable of up to 4.5 MW, and is DC only. IIRC MCS is meant to be a world-wide standard. For slow charging, CCS DC is what existing EV trucks from Volvo, Daimler, etc. use.

[@tedmoss]

It should be obvious by now that Tesla plugs will dominate in the U.S..

[@michaelbatori8203]

​@@tedmossThey'll dominate North America.

[@jakthebomb]

Just get a 3 Phase AC to DC converter on the Level 2 side and NACS would work World-Wide. I think 3 Phase is over-rated and can’t be the single reason NACS won’t work. From a consumer perspective, NACS is significantly more user friendly.

[@NicolasRaimo]

I charge my EV on 3 phase all the time, I know many the same, Zoe does 22kw 3phase, some do 11kw yes but 3ph can do 22kw very happily

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

The NACS standard was designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption. The CCS charging standard was created by the ICE manufactures marketing departments to discourage EV adoption. With the hope EV’s would never catch on. In 10 years the only place you will find a CCS charger is in a museum and an electronic surplus store.

[@ai4px]

The first J1772 plug allowed for DCFC at 400v and 80amps. The SAE refused to increase the amperage and so Tesla went on to create a new plug. SAE finally ratified the CCS1 plug in 2013 after the release of the Model S.

[@AndrewSienx]

The CCS concept is an example of a bad UX design prepared for electricians rather than users. The separate AC and DC in CSS simplify connections in the car - no need for relay switching connections for different electronics needed for AC and DC current. The Tesla NACS is well designed - from the user's perspective - small, easy, and ergonomic - but more complicated electrics. It's a matter of design practice - bad or good. Unfortunately for us in Europe - we need better design. It's a price we pay for consultatory democracy - committee designs. But please note that only about 1-2% of BEVs are now, and the rest are still ICE cars around here. So, 99% of BEVs to replace ICEVs must still be manufactured! We can still introduce a new European plug, which is appropriately designed - similar to NACS, but designed for a 3-phase grid.

[@bryanlewens2068]

Back in the 1970s we enquired about having 3 phase installed on our farm. We had a single phase milling plant but the starting power caused all the lights on that phase to dim for a few seconds. We had 3 phase installed for a nominal fee because it helped balance the load across all the phases. The possibility of a large number of chargers in any one area that could cause phase balancing problems in future is presumably one reason for switching to 3 phase supply for new build. I have installed a 3 phase EV charger and one unexpected benefit is that we can charge at 7kws when the sun is shining from solar alone. We have a 4kw PV system on each phase which is the most we could do without contributing to a local infrastructure upgrade.

[@tedmoss]

Smart use of the system.

[@edc1569]

It’s not about balancing, homes with single phase are rotated along the street. 3 phase can be a few percentage points more efficient due to the higher leg to leg voltage, can make sense when you’re increasing demand through electrifying heating and transport. The disadvantage is it makes solar and battery systems a chunk more expensive and can limit their capability to keep up with unbalanced loads.

[@RussInGA]

3 phase DC isnt a thing, 3 phase is just AC. And 3 phase is used to transmit power long distance. superchargers are DC... I think you are thinking up a wrong tree

[@NicolasRaimo]

I never said 3 phase was DC I think your watching another video

[@smarticus6384]

There will be no 3ph chargers in the USA.

[@antwnpowell]

Wireless charging- also very good for disabled drivers.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Agreed it’s got some niche use cases

[@trav9390]

🙄 promo sm

[@NicolasRaimo]

?

[@Xertazer]

@nicolas seems like your comment does not apply anymore ? :)

[@NicolasRaimo]

Why’s that? Still applies assume you didn’t watch the video

[@Xertazer]

@@NicolasRaimoI did, and it is very good, but NACS was accepted by the biggest European automakers a few days ago.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@Xertazer for the US not for the EU

[@johnhenriquez1951]

The differences are because of WW2. Europe's infrastructure was devastated and it was very easy to swap over to 230 Volt 3 phase. The US wasn't hit the same way and No one saw a need to swap their perfectly good appliances for higher voltage ones. Industry is a different story. US industry does run on 230 three phase although 60hz instead of 50.

[@AndrewSienx]

The modern 3-phase electricity system was invented by Doliwo-Dobrowolski for AEG in Germany in the late XIX c., about the same time Nikola Tesla and others worked for Westinghouse in the USA on the 2-phase system. And historically, it is challenging to change standards, even if better exist elsewhere. So, the current US electrical system is a mashup of obsolete and modern tech. Also, worldwide, you can observe countries that imported their grid solutions from the USA (60 Hz) and Germany/Europe (50 Hz).

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

NACS IS a standard. It’s just not a worldwide standard. Same can be said about CCS2. I took a lot of different AC adapters when I went to Europe. Europe doesn’t even have standard AC outlets. The US has standard AC outlets with very few special application outlets.

[@dutchdryfly]

Every country in Europe has standard AC outlets. Europe is not a country!

In the EU this problem doesn't exist, CCS2 is the standard. For the UK figure what you fancy for the RHD cars that keeps getting lower and lower production volumes.

[@bill_heywood]

The most populous country in the world is a RHD market, volumes are only going to increase

@@bill_heywood China is LHD and they produce the most EVs. Good luck.

[@bill_heywood]

@ funnily enough every major car manufacturer has figured out how to build them in both RHD and LHD versions Hong Kong is in China, RHD India isn't changing, neither will Japan, Australia, Cyprus, Malta, Ireland, New Zealand, Pakistan, Thailand, South Africa, the rest of Southern Africa

@@bill_heywood which of those produce or can afford based on GDP per capita to have EVs apart from Japan? Numbers are not on your side mate.

[@michaelbatori8203]

​@@bill_heywoodPlus, most Caribbean islands, Guyana, Pacific Islands. 40% of all countries drive on left. So, it's not a small volume.

[@richardblayney5898]

Sorry but much of this is factually deficient and of no relevance to anything in America or Europe. Trucks in America will not be charging with AC so not sure what that section was all about and certainly NACS will not be adopted outside of America….

[@ultrastoat3298]

Nobody cares what Europe or anyone else decides to use for a plug. Here in the US we will be using the best connector for the job.

[@michaelbatori8203]

Exactly. Some people blindly expect North America to implement European solutions, when many of our systems and standards aren't the same.

[@simonmatthews7512]

Hey Nick, you seem to have really triggered the tesla zombies here. Nice work 🙂.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Tell me about it

[@markplott4820]

Nicolas - I call Rubbish. TESLA has also filed PATENTS , for NACS use on the Existing EU standard. also, Asia as well. including charge port SPECS and Electrical Diagrams. its , not sure IF TESLA has Designs on revamping the EU Charging Standard using the NACS plug.

[@Dularr]

Tesla didn't decide in Europe. Tesla wasn't even asked to comment on CCS2.

[@thgserra]

Dude, do some better research, delete this video and make a new one. NACS has no intention of being a worldwide standard, they want to solve this in North America. What will end up happening will be other countries in other regions adopting this standard, such as countries in Central and South America. consequently, Australia and New Zealand (Maybe). Even Japan and South Korea can change beyond Africa (Why not?). Now, what will not change is precisely in Europe and China. Which, by imposition of politicians, and without respecting what users want, imposed an imposition on what the standard would be.

[@michaelbatori8203]

Sandy Munro nailed it? " Who came up with this garbage". A COMMITTEE? Did they talk to Musk and his engineers? CCS created by a committee, killed by engineers.

[@Berndt35]

The best plug is no plug. V2G Wireless charging is the international solution for all.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Far to costly to retrofit to every house, driveway and public space it will have some niche uses but most won’t ever need wireless also loses are higher

[@cjmillsnun]

It's wasteful. Wireless charging is inefficient compared to wired.

[@dalet9849]

@@NicolasRaimo shouldn’t be particularly costly in a garage, just plug in the wireless pad and place it on the floor where one normally parks. In public, will be initially costly to embed in pavement, but should result in much less vandalism costs

[@Berndt35]

BREAKING: Tesla in Process of BUYING Wiferion (Wireless Charging)

[@pauldenney7908]

NACS can't do vehicle to grid either.

[@NicolasRaimo]

I don’t know that couldn’t see it in my research but for me that’s a huge reason not to have it

[@pauldenney7908]

@@NicolasRaimo Actually I stand corrected, NACS could be made to support V2G but Musk doesn't like the idea, the Ford F140 has CCS V2L and V2G already. I guess Musk just wants to sell cars and home storage batteries.