Tesla’s New Virtual Power Worth More Than its Auto Business? | In Depth

[@vawlkus]

One thing you guys didn't mention here: If everyone has solar & batteries, you have a de-centralized grid, which is a lot harder to take down completely

[@juanasenjo8515]

Yes, by necessity there will be local, state, and/or federal control over many aspects of this grid's functionality. As it is with zonings, HOA's by-laws, and other restrictions, etc., some kind of administrative regulators must be in place. Other than that, the other hitch would be the Republicans blocking it on account of becoming a monopoly.

[@juanasenjo8515]

@otheym Yeah, but on record, it is the Republicans who zealously try to safeguard the fortunes of the rich blocking that which benefits the most. Or maybe I'm a delusional pessimist who thinks Trump's suck-ups will ever do us good.? Whose on whose side? Generally, the Dems cry "climate change" and "wear a mask".! The other says: "it's a seasonal thing" and "don't legislate stupid mask rules", with tragic results. It ultimately comes down to politics, unfortunately.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Sorry to disappoint you, but no. Its just as easy as without all those many energy sources. You take down a grid by under or overloading and changing the frequency for more then 1 hertz. Not by low voltage or too much current, by changing the frequency through cutting a major node. Or making a wrong connection at one of the major nodes. Every grid can come down that way. There are always some major nodes, that can do this. In Europe we had 3 occurencies of this in this year alone. One was a downed interconnection in germany and switzerland was overloaded by 20% for more then 15 minutes. The second was in romania. A major node went down and 3 coal power plants were offline at the same time. And a minor one in the UK, many wind generators at the same time generated to much energy because of a major predicted storm at the same time and 1 major node was down for planned maintenance at the same time. Bad management...

[@G8YTZ]

Until another 1859 Carrington solar storm at least, then we are in real trouble. I just hope that my battery and solar system will survive, but as a back-up I have a DEFRA approved smokeless zone exempt wood burning stove.

[@vawlkus]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 thanks for proving my point.

[@buildyourfuture5649]

This is why Tesla does not need to advertise..! Everyday normal people like the both of you, Zac and Jesse, can distribute useful information. This is a good thing!

[@sblekmdr]

This was all forecasted back in 2000 in my Environmental Science Alternative Energy Strategies class. Residential Solar, hybrid to electric cars, I bought Tesla stock back when shares were 80.00. Tesla is not about cars, its about full on vision.

[@nikhilparanjape7890]

I wanted to buy Tesla in 2015.. so that's $40 per share... But I live in India and our stupid brokers couldn't do that...

[@L0CALDRUGMAN]

@@nikhilparanjape7890 how u couldnt buy tesla its literally listed on NYSE like what kind of rtard brokers you used :D

[@nikhilparanjape7890]

@@L0CALDRUGMAN I am not sure if you read that part.. I live in India and I don't have a bank account in US or a trading account... But you are right all brokers were definitely retarded as the govt had already permitted us...

[@easandov]

You must be a millionaire now.

[@nikhilparanjape7890]

@@easandov I wanted to but I couldn't.. so missed this opportunity...

[@melodyof]

I just can't say how much I enjoy watching the Now You Know channels and how much I learn. For this particular video, I agree with you100% and never doubted Tesla Energy.

[@kellycalvert3941]

I am absolutely thrilled to discover you guys!! I cannot get enough knowledge about sustainability and science in general.

[@tubetop123]

I've been following them for 2 years I think

[@cbromley562]

We’re involved in this in the UK. The idea of being a part of the power generation, albeit small, is exciting.

[@ultraslo]

What happens in the event of a general power outage are you protected to keep your own power for your own use or are you locked into sharing with the community just a question not a problem i'm sure it will get answered

[@rraker00]

You will keep your own power because a “grid tie” system has a safety feature that will keep it from feeding into the grid when power is out. This avoids energizing a line that is believed to be off and potentially shocking someone. Hope this helps!

[@Pismoboy]

But if you already shared a chunk of the power in your battery while the grid was unstable before it went down, you will have less backup power in your battery to get you through the outage and you might run out (negating the advantage of having the battery). And when you share out of the battery you'll be cycling it more (which does have a cost because this uses more of the finite usable life of the battery, and because most power companies charge you a distribution charge per kwh you import OR export, which reduces the reimbursement for KWH you export compared to how much it will charge you to use their grid power) and depending on your agreements with the power company, if you're not getting a significantly higher rate to sell during the high demand times, it's more advantageous to the power company than it will be to you as the solar/battery owner. Until you have the ability to change your power export with an auto-bidder software where you can program in the situations and breakeven point that meets your costs, it seems like it should be a non-starter...

[@sharischoll9411]

How much does it cost to replace the battery power Wall?

[@norfolkgarden]

@@Pismoboy the cycle life is a good point. Minimal draw is less damaging than drawing all the way down close to zero. The key is the fact that you are replacing that energy daily with your solar panels. Most people try to size their solar panels to provide 80% of their daily needs. You may not be able to run the microwave as often during a blackout. You will become more aware of the energy you use during the week. But you won't care. It will become similar to sort of keeping an eye on the gas gauge of your car now. "Hmmm, I need to fill up in 2 days." That's about it. You will watch the gauge on your power wall and maybe keep the thermostat at 75 instead of 72, just to reduce the drain on the battery. You will be more aware of it but you will have the solar panels and the battery until the grid comes back.

[@leviathantice2770]

Quality of life can be directly correlated to access and cost of energy.

[@jplaplante5622]

quality of life could be correlated to no cost or hoarding

[@bradburnett7576]

I work at a big solar company in the utility department filling out net metering applications all day and jumping through all the different utility companies hoops. They make you jump through so many unnecessary hoops because they dont want you to do their job and lose them money. Even Homeowners associations deny lots of designs because they dont want panels on the front of the houses. off grid solar will change the world we live in if id becomes widely available. Also imagine storage units not for all the crap you need to move but for all the excess power people want to hold on to

[@KJSvitko]

An energy efficient home is more comfortable and saves money in the long run. A home that generates power for the grid and gets paid for it is even better. Added insulation, triple glaze windows, energy efficient doors, energy efficient heating and cooling systems, energy efficient appliances, LED lighting, solar panels combined with battery storage and a electric vehicle charger in the garage or car park. People are too focused on the short term costs and miss out on long term savings and comfort. Blower door testing and air sealing are under appreciated tools.Even if you have money to burn you should not waste it. Climate Change will impact everyone. Leave a better future for your children and grandchildren. Join in and speak up for the future of the planet.

[@G8YTZ]

Exactly what I have, self-build 10 years ago. Underfloor heating with a heat pump rules! I also have solar PV, Thermal and Heat Recovery Ventilation System. For reference Heat Recovery Ventilation would be the first thing I'd install in a house, it makes for a very healthy and fresh living environment.

[@mikemehrer8505]

@@G8YTZ fixing an old house is harder but also a worthy goal.

[@G8YTZ]

@@mikemehrer8505 I’ve done two complete renovations, but sometimes a new build brings more and can be cheaper. Especially when you take the VAT into account.

[@komme_ntar7739]

@@G8YTZ when everyone do this, the technology will be cheaper. (Sorry for bad english)

[@66block84]

People have much resistance to things like this. I think building codes should slowly be updated to mandate the things you mention.

[@ramonbenito9840]

ELON is creating opportunities not looking for it.

[@eldredgesolsong3920]

I did back of the napkin math. There is more than enough roof real estate in Arizona to make a Solar Power plant to power the entire US

[@ronaldlenz5745]

Correct!

[@teslatrekker9496]

Best KZbin content about the electric revolution!

[@__-pl3jg]

I agree. We can see in real time the money transfer from the old infrastructure flowing into the new paradigm. Money flows from customers to utility companies. Then, from utility companies to Tesla to use their VPP network as a peaker plant. That money helps continue to grow the network until eventually the traditional utility infrastructure is no longer needed/wanted. The utilities are dying but probably wont realize it for quite some time. In fact, I see similar scenarios playing out in many other markets globally. The pendulum of humankind is forever swinging towards decentralization to improve efficiency.

[@madikuss6995]

One of your best episodes ever! The opportunity here for the U.S., the world and Tesla is HUMONGOUS! And WE ALL WIN! Stable power, plentiful power and clean energy without pollution!

[@GreenTechFusionRenewableEnergy]

Since Tesla does not sell Powerwalls by themselves any longer, you have to buy Tesla solar to get Powerwalls. I would like to see Tesla make a Black Box version of Autobidder For Home that can be installed EASY for homes with various existing batteries and various existing solar systems... like me and other non Tesla solar customers.

[@TheTruthSeeker756]

That would be the ultimate. Maybe Tesla could pay back less money to people operating under this scenario to incentivize them to do it

[@seaneric5753]

This maybe a stupid question but can you paint the box? I ask because I agree, I would like black much more than white

[@ThomasBomb45]

Unlikely that Tesla will do this, tbh. Autobidder is part of their money maker and they want to sell you the whole thing

[@tsvandyke]

@@seaneric5753 yes you are stupid ... a " black box" .. is a term to mean ... using generic pieces / low cost alternative to the original product

[@adamriese3610]

i think its because the demand and production. They should open it later, that everyone can buy powerwalls

[@faramarzmokri9136]

Best Tesla’s power presentation on KZbin. Keep up the good quality work. Than you.

[@BenRichardson]

I have 24kW of solar because when I bought this foreclosure the two AC systems and two water heaters and the pool pump were running poorly or non-stop... which had caused an average monthly bill of $518 to be recorded. So immediately after buying, before improving anything with HE appliances, HVAC repairs, hybrid water heater, re-plastering the pool and replacing the pump -- I engaged a solar contractor who qualified me for $500/month solar with the utility. I never paid a bill higher than $470 before the solar was commissioned. Now I have a heatpump pool heater and my second EV, a Tesla Y. I tell friends to do no improvements until they get the solar... then replace windows, doors, add insulation, etc.

[@flash7750]

what are the 7 states that permit VPP

[@t.r.766]

How come GM Recall of Chevy Bolt doesn’t make the TV National news? Wait this is a great episode Stop the presses this needs to be National News ! I m in got 4 Powerwalls installed in 2019 just updated my solar supply to now generate 20.2 kw was 10.2 kw which was not filling my batteries up with a car charging! Now I’m sending power back to the grid and it’s the right thing to do. This is definitely the future!

[@batandball617]

GM pays the networks big money for adverts, they won’t bite the hand that feeds them. Tesla pays them Zero dollars……

[@JBoy340a]

CBS evening news just did a 3 minute story on the Bolt fires. It featured dramatic footage of a Bolt burning down someones house, and a story of a new father that brought his newborn home in the Bolt and was wondering what could have happened,

[@EatMyPropwash]

Cuz the Chevy as a whole, and the Bolt is a POS and nobody cares. That’s why.

[@kenaaronbabbit9987]

To delay its affects over 2-4 years rather than all at once...simple business strategy

[@ttraderjim]

Zac, considering your investment in VPP. When it's up and running you have revenue from the power company and expenses like batteries, solar panels and all sorts of odds and ends like electricians, building permits, property improvement taxes, depreciation, and others I'm sure. Taking your total cash out of pocket investment. How long does it take to return of your invested capital? I'm a real estate investor and the rule of thumb I use is a 3 to 1 return. How does the math work for you?

[@KitelessRex]

This is a great episode, but I can't get it out of my head, the person in the clip starting the lawn mower was wearing socks! Anyway keep up the great work team! :D

[@salvadorcoling8403]

Watching your KZbin video makes me very excited, Jesse and Zac. If all houses in America are using Tesla Solar Roof and Powerwall, it’s TOTALLY A REAL INDEPENDENCE DAY OF ALL AMERICANS. I bet China is watching you America.

[@willymac5036]

It would be great to see Tesla’s VPP become the largest electricity provider in the world. Decentralizing the grid is the most effective way of building resiliency into it.

[@cobblestone977]

Yes, but once any great idea starts to grow the government will eventually regulate it and take their share. For example, watch what happens with Bitcoin in the near future. In my opinion, the government will not allow free-market competition in the power, water, trash, etc. sectors (or very rare on a local basis).

[@gerhardkrohmer7729]

I'm having a solar roof installed this fall, and two powerwalls to accompany it. I'm getting a VPP ! VPPs have an additional feature that wasn't present in this video. Namely, it increases the peak power available to a neighborhood. This will become increasingly important as electric vehicles increase as a fraction of all vehicles. Ultimately, the grid is limited in the amount of power it can deliver to a neighborhood. This limitation is imposed in the form of a maximum diameter of the wires the grid uses to supply power to the neighborhood. There is also a maximum diameter of wire that the grid uses to supply each house. The grid is able to supply the maximum power that any given house can consume ( say to charge a Tesla model 3 ). But the grid is NOT able max out ALL of the houses in that neighborhood at the same time. That's where the magic of the VPP comes into play. If my neighbor decided to charge his Tesla vehicle, and my neighbor does not have solar panels on his roof, the power he needs to charge his car must by supplied by the grid. If I don't need all of the energy my solar roof generates (or a powerwall if he chooses to charge after the sun goes down ), the excess will energy will flow into the grid. The energy will flow from my solar roof into my neighbor's house WITHOUT requiring the neighborhood grid to supply ANY extra power! What this means is that a VPP can save utilities the cost of expensive upgrades to their grid infrastructure as the numbers of electric vehicles explodes.

[@HavanaPirici]

Don’t you see that every house has solar panels that will charge the grids!!!

[@realulli]

@@HavanaPirici Already happening in summer in Germany. There have been days when the solar generation exceeded demand and since there is a law in Germany that renewables need to given preference over fossil or nuclear, there were a bunch of conventional power plants sitting idle. The power is there (almost), what's lacking is storage. I expect Tesla will change that as well (average home storage costs about 1000 Euros/kWh, Tesla quoted $60/kWh for their LFP car cells. Even if it's $100/kWh, that would make it feasible to put 100+kWh of storage in your basement and only need a little external power to get through the winter, when your solar roof only produces 5% of its peak. (I know VPP is not about going off-grid, but with the prices being what they are in Germany, I've seriously thought about that. Even just being hooked up, not using any power costs money...)

[@gerhardkrohmer7729]

@@realulli I've been looking a stirling engine as a backup power source. Granted, the stiring engine burns natural gas as it's heat source, but stirling engines are about 30% efficient, almost silent, and they are insanely reliable. They are built by a company in Utah called Qnergy. The down side is that the VERY expensive. But taking Elon's first principles approach, there's huge potential for reducing their cost.

[@realulli]

@@gerhardkrohmer7729 probably. They get their energy from exploiting a temperature differential, I wonder if that can be used somehow. Also, I suspect they're so expensive because there are only so few made...

[@vitormiranda8152]

Great vid! But you got the air conditioner example wrong, by mixing kwh with kw. The number of air conditioners your house can support is down to the power the inverter in your battery can provide, and not the capacity of your battery

[@hoekbrwr]

Their ideas are good the calculation of the total is not yet complete!

[@floodj3230]

The question I have is around battery degradation. What would using the tesla's to power the grid do on the life cycle of the battery?

[@PhxElecAuto]

It has almost no affect on the battery life. They only take 10% or less of the battery stored energy. But by having thousands of homes doing this it nake a big difference In CA they paid people $2 a kWh so it pays. The GRID saves and the environment wins.

[@marshonmellows]

Why would you want vehicle to grid? That would just make your car’s battery-pack degrade so much quicker…

[@nostaljiq]

I agree. But I also feel like that technology will improve over time.

[@theodorehaskins3756]

Exactly! So vehicle to grid should be seen as a back up in case of an emergency/prolong power outage, not something you would do on a regular basis, as that would make no sense at all!

[@daviddossor6711]

Hi boys not new ... Remember Hornsdale MEGA battery in South AUSTRALIA that payed for its self in 2 years.... The other part of that deal was 50,000 homes solar & power walls in a virtual power plant !!!!!! What about that MEGA PACK that was built secretly in TEXAS after the big freeze last year, The one that the company that owns it lives in the same building as TESLA in Freemont !!!!! Should be on line now !!! TESLA owned MEGA PACKS !!!

[@fscott1134]

Please do the reverse analysis of this issue - from the point of view of the the energy industry. Their loss of control of the industry, loss of potential revenue, loss of associated business loss (architects, engineers, construction companies, concrete companies, steel companies) loss of revenue from constructing peaker plants….etc. my point is not to diminish the positive aspect of Tesla innovation but to educate others on the politics and motivations that will occur and what to watch out for locally.

[@chrisheath2637]

With you on this, and there is, and will be resistance from utilities, because of loss of control. AND yet, they stand to gain, if they can use the batteries, instead of peaker plants, and also, if they are charged "No supply" fines. Also - because batteries can respond so fast, they can prevent cascading problems. The Hornsdale battery has proved to be a huge success, despite opposition calling it "the big banana", and has been a money spinner for the installing company, and local consumers. Grids, and grid management, are complex, and have many different needs, Tesla's software fulfils these needs. ( This will cause, ultimately, massive disruption to power generation, and distribution.)

[@RasakBlood]

Jobs are disappearing to technology yes we know. This is an ongoing process that will continue and is an entire separate issue.

[@chrisheath2637]

And as a society, we shouldn't let the tail of old inefficient technologies, with high capital and labour costs, wag the dog of better, far more efficient solutions...(despite the inevitable resistance)...

[@fscott1134]

“Never rub another mans rhubarb…”. Joker

[@JeffMuhlbach]

Only way solar installs make financial sense for many homes if if they are not limited on how much they can produce. Hope these changes help.

[@caseyford3368]

I'm not saying have kinetic energy for the turbines in space, but an endless energy supply to life support systems would be extremely useful.

[@keelyevans4695]

I DO

[@migueldiazvargas5353]

Great video guys, I learned a lot today. Amazing what’s happening just in front of our eyes!

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

Wow, I totally see it coming. As Tesla’s fleet of EV grows they can have the VPP by linking up the power walls, mega packs, charging stations and solar panels through a powerful AI driven Autobidder that cannot be taken down. It’s brilliant and its inevitable and nobody else saw it. Thanks Zac & Jesse, now we know.

[@karlsatherley6088]

The cars themselves have batteries that can connect to the grid too. V2G. Peaker plants on wheels

[@juliohernandez3045]

I hope that this comes to TX soon. To be honest, the VTG is the one that most sticks out to me. I only have 1PW and a mid size panel system that produces 9kwh. It helps greatly in my home in Houston. But with the VTG, I would be able to power my home for days with just our MX and M3. Very nice!

[@Lambert7785]

thanks, so good to have good communicators sharing the electricity news :)

[@mjr7991]

Why do you have a backup generator if you have 4 power walls?

[@ronaldlenz5745]

Hey guys, residential voltage has been 120/240 since 1946. Not 110 v anymore.

[@younggwangwon884]

Thank you guys for this video. You did good work as always!

[@msmith3395]

Just a house-scale UPS like I use to keep my computer from flipping off every time I try to print something with my laster printer. Plus it can feed power back into the grid.

[@JBoy340a]

It definitely does this. And it is as fast as a UPS. The only way we know the grid went down is when we get a message on the app, or look outside and notice the neighbors are in the dark.

[@caseyford3368]

A direct connect to the axle of a vehicle would produce sooo much energy. Kinetic energy. Your vehicle would be super charged in a shorter amount of time and then the huge amount of extra energy could just go back into the power grid.

[@theOfferHaus]

Love it and agree. I'm in Eugene Oregon and hope that we get the vpp soon. One thing to keep in mind is who maintains the transportation...ie power lines. This will kill the utility companies so we need something to ensure the lines are maintained

[@hoekbrwr]

@@tigeroll Yes and they will raise the cost to keep their pockets full of money!

[@MikeSynonymous]

Decentralised power is definitely the way forward, in fact if every home had their own generation and storage technology, then energy prices could go to zero if there was more production than utilisation. Since energy costs are the baseline cost for every other consumable, the cost of consumable goods will come crashing down. The cost of none consumables may also be affected, that is items that are not simply consumed and replaced, like electronics and vehicles.

[@danielrost8488]

This was one of your best videos yet! Great stuff! Should be mandatory viewing for everyone! ❤️

[@emlortnoctonod8401]

that solar panel table seems a great idea for offices with more than 8 hours of lights on for employes. You use the light and you recharge your battery too...

[@sergelbergeron]

Hope to see this soon in Canada - I'm on the list for solar and power wall in Ontario. Someday. Thanks Zac and Jesse for the comprehensive analysis

[@taylors630]

I’m

[@taylors630]

I’m I’m just trying my

[@taylors630]

I’m I’m just trying my

[@TL-xv9of]

The renewable energy potential in the US is awsome. The problem will be to defeat big oil, big gas and big electro.

[@aclassmedicine3306]

Average daily power consumption in the US is double that in my home city. Dry wall houses are costly over time, though cheaper to build. Retrofitting houses for optimal energy efficiency is a future big business, world wide, especially skyscrapers!

[@MegaMeaty]

Drywall with 6 inches of insulation works just fine. Retrofitting a skyscraper is a totally different thing altogether as they were not made for that. You would have to tear out the entire floor, because the floor plan would have to change for more insulation, and/or electrical conduits for power, and pipes for cooling. Better to tear the building down, make it bigger, and design it for modern efficiencies.

[@krisvandermeulen253]

For some context regarding Europe. The netmetering, ie the digital meter, is obliged by the EU as all analogue electricity meters must go. For a many people owing solar panels here in Belgium the move to the digital meter was grudgingly received as we relied on offsetting the electricity use in the winter with the surplus generated in the summer. For the moment we don't have VPP electricity companies (like Octopus in the UK) so we'll have to wait...

[@davidrink1291]

Free energy would make desalinization plants much more feasible.

[@4.0Solutions]

Free clean water

[@eastmanwebb5477]

This is a very good point.

[@Georgeqaws]

Nothing is free. Still have to make solar panels and service them. So u buy solar panels and the price will go down on the utility cost and make your ROI on your panels less. Elon has yet to make an economical product. So far they are high cost upfront and high priced to maintain because Tesla is the only ones who can fix the products.

[@abbatis34]

I Ike the way you make points and then continue discussion in such a way the concept/idea is reinforced. I like it.

[@chrisroger2000]

What about batteries degradation(car and home)if you keep cycling from charge and discharge? Won’t the battery health diminish much quicker? I guess the remuneration will make it all worth while.

[@peterhelm522]

Low c discharges and use of LFP batteries helps to prolong battery lifetime

[@FlorenceSlugcat]

Christopher, your concern is valid. In fact, this “powerbank in house” thing is nothing more than a gimmick, a marketing scheme. In reality, chemical batteries are pretty bad at large scale. A chemical battery can store alot of energy and release it quickly, but is extremely expansive to make, will degrade over time, requiring replacement, requires materials that hard to obtain and their extraction is far more harmful than any kind of oil, gas, or coal power you could generate. This is something that isnt spoken about in the media, but making lithium car batteries for example, just the process of getting the lithium and the strong and toxic chemicals used to make it, will polute more than any combustion engine will in YEARS. And lets not even mention the fact that itll still need power to charge, often produced by fossil fuel anyways. Its a total scam. In reality, large scale power storage works nothing like your little chemical batteries. One of the best methods for large scale power storage, a method that has been used since over a CENTURY alongside powerplants, a method that is proven, cheap, barely polutes, doesnt need replacement or hard to obtain materials, and is used all over the world on a massive scale everyday already exists. That method is uses gravity. Generally, they for example do things like pump water uphill above a hydro dam where they have huge reservoirs. They use the extra power production during the low demand hours to fill thoses lakes, and then during the peak demand hours, they let it flow back down into turbines, generating more power than the standard river flow is able to provide. This is one of the many commonly used large scale batteries, there are many other methods, also using gravity. People just dont pay attention to them because they look like they are just a part of the landscape(such as a lake/reservoir battery), instead of being chemical units that people think of when they hear batteries The next time you pass a dam or other power generation facility, specifically if it has a reservoir near it, pay attention to it. It might just be a battery

[@kentsangkh]

Thanks for this amazing video, I learned so much. The virtual power plant business is the hidden gem of Tesla that most people are not aware of.

[@matthelfer7394]

Hello from Austin, i will be getting 51,000 Kw of solar and 4 powerwalls installed next week. super excited!

[@aaronvallejo8220]

I think you mean 51 kw solar PV system or 51,000 watt system. Still this is huge solar system...probably on your farm. I have 10 335 watt SunPower panels which are installed on my 40 foot garage roof which generates 6,000 kilowatt hours annually.

[@matthelfer7394]

@@aaronvallejo8220 Estimated Year 1 Production: 51526 kWh Estimated Year 1 Offset: 180%, i copied and pasted from my assesment. i would add photo but youtube doesn’t allow, maybe a typo on their part?

[@aaronvallejo8220]

@@matthelfer7394 Ok yes that makes sense. That is a big residential solar PV system!! I am guessing 100 x 300 watt panels...making it roughly a 30 kw system which then is estimated to produce 51,500 kwhrs annually. Sweet investment!

[@matthelfer7394]

@@aaronvallejo8220 yeah, 135 panels

[@aaronvallejo8220]

@@matthelfer7394 Wow, that is a huge system. I hope you get many decades of production. Is it ground mounted or perhaps installed on your barn roof?

[@sevilnatas]

So how much does the home owner get paid and how much of a cut does Tesla take? This basically opens Tesla up to be able t do energy arbitrage and they are very well positioned to be one of the best providers to the power companies when they need to buy extra power. When Tesla gouges the power company through their Enron level automated arbitrage system, does the home owner share in that gouge or do they get a set rate and Tesla vacuums up the extra?

[@kenstephens221]

Now that you are a power plant, are you depreciating the value of the power plant on your federal taxes?

[@MrLogan2600]

Probably not, if anything your paying taxes on it as you are earning money

[@JBoy340a]

You get to write off 28% of the cost of the solar install and batteries in the year you install them.

[@6681096]

His power plant business earns money like any other business. So I think you can make a case for depreciating at least part of that power wall to offset the $2,000 a year he's been making.

[@thestocksource8393]

Here in Phoenix AZ, the AC turns on for good in April and don’t stop running until October ;)

[@carlosalbarran6337]

Same here in FL 🥵

[@eldredgesolsong3920]

n it stays at 70 the whole time

[@fscott1134]

Stay out of the valley from tax day to Halloween!

[@sfcgoofy1982]

I just want to know when I can add my model Y to the loop? I have Tesla solar, Powerwalls, and the Model Y. But why can my car still not power my home to help in an outage in Florida hurricane season

[@grateful.]

You cant add energy to the grid after a hurricane because it would electrocute the person fixing the powerline

[@sfcgoofy1982]

@@grateful. but what about my house that’s already on powerwalls that has an automatic service disconnect and I can already run solo. With my car added I can run for days to weeks on the solar/powerwalls/and car combined. If Ford is already advertising it on the Lightning are you telling me they are more advanced than Tesla? The car already has the ability just lacking the communication between the car and the gateway to figure it out.

[@michaelholliday100]

Hey Guys, I maybe getting picky here, but in the US we do not have 110 volts in a home or business and in a home we have either 120 volts or 240 volts...

[@waynegnarlie1]

Thank you gentlemen, this was extremely helpful to my understanding. You guys do a great job of explaining while entertaining. You've earned my subscription and then some.

[@TheAnticorporatist]

IDK if you explained this or not, but part of the advantage of creating a VPP in California is that, by statute, if you're putting out more than 10MW they have to treat you as a power provider and pay prevailing rate (as opposed to the pittance that they usually pay), Tesla could take a nice, fat slice of that and still quintuple the amount that their powerwall owners save/get.

[@heldua2]

can you guys please have Tony Seba on your awesome channel as a guest! PLEASE….. ??

[@bluebiplane]

Great idea!

[@AkweliParker]

Commenting so maybe they’ll do it!

[@Sekir80]

Yes, this is a great idea!

[@cundraudeplazes5488]

Yes!

[@antonioborges99]

Tony Seba should be taught in primary school.

[@patricksuwala4090]

Imagine how much further our societies would be today if not every aspect of life was profit over people. Especially something so crucial. like energy.

[@stuartnetherclift7566]

Good presentation - thanks! ...and if you still have excess power from your solar installation after your battery is full and grid draw is satisfied then you can power a BTC mining rig and make it even more worthwhile. Everyone wins except the traditional utilities and dubious politicians...

[@mazzaker18]

my mother works at a roof tile porducer in norway. they make solar roofs that look like regular roof tiles from the ground level. it doubles the cost of tiles for a roof depending on how much of it is solar, but it completely removes the argument for "its ugly" wich is litterally the only argument against solar roofs.

[@thomasostman8678]

It's the frequency that decreases and is the problem when the electricity grid becomes overloaded. Not voltage drop

[@blenderNOOb69]

Both go down: First VOLT followed by the FREQUENCY... Volt is not that problem. But when frequency goes down, that can hurt gadgetry

[@deanhagstrom6667]

@@blenderNOOb69 Thomas was right, a shortage of generation reduces the frequency as the spinning machines lose their inertia and slow down. Voltage doesn't need to drop. If the voltage drops then the power drawn by resistive loads drops which is good. The dropping frequency also slows the motor attached to grid which generally reduces their load.

[@mtiedemann11]

I'm super excited about the Tesla VPP and energy in general - expect it will outgrow vehicles. 2 issues for battery owners I didn't hear addressed: - how do you set limits on how much power you're willing to sell? - what's the likely impact on battery degradation? The 4680 is looking like it'll be near the"million-mile" battery, which will go a long way toward this concern - but unlikely it'll be in power walls.

[@ramblerandy2397]

Tesla and my energy supplier here in the UK, Octopus Energy, partnered up a while back and they're doing exactly what this video has been all about.

[@strode66]

Would it be possible to put a power wall or 3 in the back of the cyber truck like a jerry can for ice to get a couple of hundred or thousand more Kilometres . Recharge them all on your big tour then plug them back into your home and get back to selling the extra power.

[@chadfaulkner3600]

I've been waiting for this episode. I'm looking into this n start construction on a new house next spring. I'm trying to make it self sustaining.

[@marcisaacs9407]

How much damage or negative effects will occur to your power wall and who will pay for replacement due to that ?

[@Racing2Learn]

Learned a lot from this one, loved it!

[@ronaldlenz5745]

Also, LiFePO4 batteries are perfect for residential and industrial storage. No nickel and cobalt, and who cares if they are a little heavier. Redox flow batteries are also great for industrial scale storage. Completely agree that solar + wind + storage is the future.

[@TheTruthSeeker756]

Thanks for the chuckles guys. Always love it when you show those skeptical people talking. Blah blah blah

[@CampKohler]

Will the income from selling the power pay for the equipment? What happens if the electronic switches fail and remove all power from your house until they can be repaired?

[@s2kto2K]

I'm in Southern California apart of Edison Utility. I have solar roof and 2 PW. Unless there's a new rate for this VPP, i'm not sure if it's worth it for me. Depending on the rate, Edison sell us at $0.18 per kwh during non peak hours. But you only sell back at $0.25 per kwh. Why the hell would I want to help them base on this disproportionate rate.

[@6681096]

Yeah, if they try to screw you. But Zack is earning $2,000 a year because he's saving the utility having to buy very expensive peak power. So I think it's a good idea to look into what they're going to offer you for VPP

[@s2kto2K]

@@6681096 I meant to say .025 so just a little over 2 cents. I’ll have to call them and ask but my guess is I’ll have to wait a bit cuz it’s still new.

[@6681096]

@@s2kto2K sorry, it looks like you're getting nothing at least at this time you're just providing a public service. Hopefully after the trial they'll start compensating people. 2nd correction: Zach got $2,000 not for an entire year but for the summer.

[@matthewknobel6954]

so what you are saying is instead of up and down loads for your house, you should run your house at max cooling all day every day so the utility has a baseline power demand.

[@alexanderkenway]

As of right now it's just a public good program. Now I don't mind helping my fellow neighbours from time-to-time but for the long term longevity there has to be some sort of incentive

[@Francisco_Manos]

I recently enabled this feature on the app and will see how it goes the rest of the Summer.

[@zecretw7272]

Biggest V2G-VPP problem is that the car is not at home while peak demand. It is parked outside workplaces, not connected to the virtual grid.

[@vtorsi610]

V2G charging station at the workplace is the solution ...

[@belgarion0013]

Very good as usual! Can you build one of this Tesla VPP byyourself? It should be a requirement that all municipalities have a VPP that can be used as a backup. Have a great sunday!

[@ralphrichards4794]

Hi guys, I have had a 11.96 Kw system installed to replace a 6 kw system that failed after fourteen years. That old system penciled out but didn’t quite cover the years cost. Now the SunRun 12 Kw system is producing more than I use. I have purchased a model x and a FUV, oh and two Letric XP bikes. Almost forgot electric chain saw blower etc. still ahead watt wise. The rub comes with the 12 Kw install. Rarely do I produce more than 7Kw per hour even during peak sun. I asked SunRun about the advertised versus real production but all they would say is “well 12Kw is a target optimal whatever goal but would not explain why the difference of install versus real production. So I hope everyone on this great channel understands this when they purchase a system. P.s. I’ve learned so much over all the episodes from you both. Keep grinding my grey matter I love it.

[@mukamuka0]

Elon's master plan is coming together quite nicely! 😆

[@justingriffiths6931]

I live next to a Cummins factory that makes those large building generator! We see new ones on flatbeds all the time.

[@mikebennett1193]

I am really hoping that the new infrastructure bill will address the systematic issues with in-efficiency by adopting these Tesla technologies..(I should write my Senator!)

[@jordanhildebrandt3705]

There's a lot of non infrastructure stuff in there...

[@mikebennett5559]

@@jordanhildebrandt3705 there always is, thats the negotiation

[@dangeles95]

Perhaps you should realize that politicians and government only cause more problems. The free market, a.k.a. Tesla, can solve them. Don’t get government involved to screw it all up

[@mikebennett5559]

@@dangeles95 agreed, and anarchy is romantic, howeve,r I am referring to the actual country we live in.

[@hoekbrwr]

@@dangeles95 Don't let politicians rule technics, they have never learned how to calculate for others only for themselves!

[@ronaldkrisher3685]

I'm sold guys. My problem is that Tesla doesn't sell either power walls or solar panels here in Cincinnati. I have a suggestion for NYK. Show the areas of the country where Tesla Energy products are available. You do a good job of updating us on Supercharger locations and availability. It would be great if you could do the same for Tesla Energy. I'm a fan, guys. Keep up the outstanding work!

[@FailTrainS]

You actually have to take the Power instead of the capacity of the powerwalls to determine break even powerwall numbers to match a 500MW peaker plant. So generally speaking a 13kW system will have less than 13kW of power availble. I think you ended up pretty close by accident with your 4 hour estimation.

[@FailTrainS]

For the powerwall 2 it looks like peak power (10 seconds is 7kW) and continuous is 5kW. And if they're using it like the hornsdale power reserve those little spikes are what is going to be needed most to smooth things out. So it can "shift" at a rate of approximately 5kW and "smooth" at a rate of 7kW. Hopefully they aren't pinging off of that 7kW number frequently because that could have a negative impact on the life of the battery cells.

[@normvanduker9999]

I live in California and this first, fledging VPP trial is being offered as a public service with no compensation to either Tesla or the PW owners who participate. I am confident, however, that over time that will change. First the VPP needs to gain traction and prove its ability to displace peaker plants. Once that happens and the VPP proves its value the next step will be to monetize.

[@JBoy340a]

Unless they can start paying people a lot like Zach got (over $2,000 in a summer) ASAP no one will sign up. Until there is some compensation I am not letting the VPP use my Powerwalls. Powerwalls have a finite number of cycles and are expensive to replace.

[@normvanduker9999]

@@JBoy340a Yes making your PW available to the grid is valuable and anyone who does that deserves to be paid, but unless some people are willing to do it initially for free there won't be any proof of concept. But I suspect that if enough people do it now then next year it will be set up as a service for which the participants will be compensated.

[@JBoy340a]

@@normvanduker9999 Why for free? Zach is obviously in a trial program and as he says getting paid a lot. Why is this not the same in Northern California? If anything it should be like Zach mentioned. The early participants make more money and as more people come online the rate drops.

[@normvanduker9999]

@@JBoy340aZach is enrolled in net metering but not a VPP.

[@JBoy340a]

@@normvanduker9999 - they must have a very good net metering plan in Mass. With the $0.04 for every kWh we generate in excess with PG&E. And we are only allowed to have solar systems sized to generate 110% of consumption.

[@toddsmith4280]

The announcement that all new Tesla solar installations must include a power wall, now makes complete sense!

[@ThomasBomb45]

I thought it was the other way? Can't get powerwall without solar

[@toddsmith4280]

@@ThomasBomb45 The panels are now designed to plug directly into the power wall batteries.

[@srnunan4783]

It’s cos they know the power walls are the real sellers so they “add the fries” with the solar as a way to sell plenty of solar to go with it

[@gilbertarzner]

Roofs? What about all the vacant lots. Some cannot be built on. For example: rural lots that can't pass perk tests for septic systems. Most next to power lines for transmission..

[@RealestDave]

Great work done by these guys, the way they convey the information is awesome Im sure they put a ton of work into editing too.

[@johnpapiewski8232]

Sorry, the quoted "rate" of $225/kW doesn't quite make sense to me. A kilowatt is a rate of energy. A kilowatt-hour is a quantity of energy. Typical utility cost per kWh is $0.10 - $0.20 depending on where you live. $225/kWh is 1,000x higher than that. You also say "Utilities are willing to pay up to 10x more than the average rate" from other producers during peak loads. But then you say it's worth it to the utility to pay you a 1000x premium to draw on your Tesla storage?

[@JBoy340a]

I wonder if he meant per Megawatt hour.

[@KingLutherQ]

Zac, can you make a video showing your Tesla power wall and solar panels?

[@dr-k1667]

Great idea! It's amazing they haven't done it yet, but they are buys covering the news. Still it's a good idea for an In Depth.

[@davet5016]

JESSE - YOU'VE GOT IT BACKWARDS HERE! (24:20), and it's a common misconception about the demand cycle - especially in states where solar is prevalent and AC usage can be high. Noon is actually a low point on the demand curve, as AC load is still low, and solar generation is high. In fact, in California, there's often a net SURPLUS of energy between 10:00 - 4:00pm, and solar generation is actually curtailed (a bad thing). So instead of plugged in EVs supplying power to the grid at noon, they could be capturing it. Also, at around 5PM, that's when grid demand INCREASES and hits peak load for the day, at the same time solar generation is quickly dropping. so 5-8PM is the time for EVs to either NOT charge, or be a VPP to supply energy to the grid. So many people get this wrong, and start charging their car when they get home from work in the evening, which is the WORST time to charge!!!

[@RobertMartinTheGreat]

Once solar gets on everybody's roof the power company will just be a grid operator

[@G8YTZ]

Unless you live in a flat, these people will end up paying £££ for their electricity and gas. This is why flats are a very bad idea.

[@greghudson9717]

Actually what's happening here in Australia, where we have up to 60% homes in some areas, is solar CURTAILMENT. There's so much power from rooftop solar the grid can't handle it so the solar gets booted off the grid. This is happening. Get used to it.

[@dr-k1667]

@@greghudson9717 Why when the issue causing curtailment is legislative and the need for more storage and some software.

[@JBoy340a]

Our Power companies are already moving that way. They buy power from the Western grid which includes their plants. But will sell their plant's power to another power company instead of using it locally if that is more profitable.

[@nancinowlen3043]

Thank you… I am waiting for my powerwall. It was ordered in March ‘21…. Now “maybe “ expected 1/22. I am in OR and do have a tesla solar roof, and model 3. Here we have pge not pg&e… evidently I am signed up for something. I do presently use the time of use program, which has saved me a bunch. I am sure wishing the power wall be coming soon.

[@anthonyspencer6027]

I think what's needed is some Government legislation to make solar compulsory on all new build homes or certainly Tesla partnering with building companies. In France for example all new build hasto have either solar OR green rooftops to help sustain bee populations!

[@johneric98]

I believe that is the case in California.

[@xeridea]

My EMC does a peak billing method. Year round, the power is cheap, and certain days in summer, generally 0-3 per month, usage above 3KW from 2-7 PM gets penalized. Pretty easy follow if you don't run your dryer. This significantly reduces the usage of peaker plants, and reduces costs. Summer power cost per KWH is about 40% lower than before they started this program. Not all utilities fight net metering, though a large amount do. I don't have solar yet, but my EMC does offer net metering, though the rate isn't great. They do have incentives for renewables though. This idea with Powerwalls is great, having backup battery double as mini peaker plants, to generate revenue.

[@GreyWarden365]

I really enjoyed the Elon The Disrupter vids. I wish you two would make more and or reboot the ones you've already made and make them more of a deep dive series!

[@jeffreymazor1960]

Is there any VPP in Florida?

[@michaelparker5030]

Elon had a product out that was a solar roof that looked like a traditional roof, no mention of this system only panels.

[@samt1705]

35:29

[@zaynab2085]

Is there any maintenance involved in having the power wall and solar panels?