Tesla FSD v12 Confused by Heavy Manhattan Traffic

Tesla FSD crosses heavy midtown Manhattan traffic and struggles with several complex situations, including failing to recognize a red right turn signal exiting a roundabout.
The Tesla is running FSD v12.3.3.

[@shunfangin7645]

Thank you for trying this difficult route.

[@DerekDavis213]

But that route is *easy* for a human. No sweat.

[@tioswift3676]

@@DerekDavis213…

[@rakemasta]

That's actually quite impressive in a chaotic traffic like that. Still shows the FSD is waaaaaay far from being ready.

[@FSDinNYC]

At least in chaotic city driving, I agree

[@importon]

Would be great if the other "FSD evangelist" youtubers would take their Teslas for a drive outside of their gated communities like this. This is a true indication of how far we are from driverless

[@DerekDavis213]

Agreed. Some experts say it is 10 years until we have Level 5 Full Autonomy. At a minimum.

[@FSDinNYC]

Doesn't Waymo already operate driverless in some communities?

[@DerekDavis213]

@@FSDinNYC Waymo only operates in 2 small areas, in Phoenix and San Francisco. And Waymo is Level 3, with remote operators that can take control of the car if necessary. That is not Level 5 Full Autonomy that Elon promised to the public.

[@The_Wandering_Warrior1]

​@@DerekDavis213waymo is lvl 4 and operates in LA, Austin and the bay area. Just a small correction

[@DerekDavis213]

@@The_Wandering_Warrior1 You are mistaken. Here is the official statement: _Waymo currently operates a paid taxi service in the city of San Francisco and in metro Phoenix, Arizona. The company has operated a pilot service in sections of Los Angeles since the fall_

Not ready for NYC.

[@rlshultz5841]

These are the big issues Tesla needs to address if they want to be on dense urban environments like China India and Europe. Good cases.

[@DerekDavis213]

As of today, just look at how FSD cannot handle New York City, Toronto, or even San Jose without human help. China and India? No way FSD can succeed there ! .

[@wumble7829]

FSD handles Toronto pretty well. In these situations, its making good judgement, in gridlock or honking situations a human driver isnt making wiser choices.

[@DerekDavis213]

@@wumble7829 A human driver is 99.99 percent capable, while FSD is maybe 97 percent. FSD is nothing like a human driver. .

[@BerlinBK2662]

Nice video, bad FSD

[@freddydad1]

That was tough..

[@DerekDavis213]

1:15 FSD is stuck in intersection after light turned Red. *Disengagement* 2:00 FSD is turning left, pedestrian is still nearby! 3:05 FSD stuck behind a *stopped* *car* , when turning right. OK, that's enough folks, I stopped watching at 3:05. Let's pray that 12.4 is better. FSD still has lots of problems.

[@FSDinNYC]

12.4 won't. Elon mentioned these types of problems are being addressed in 12.5 and 12.6.

[@DerekDavis213]

@@FSDinNYC Ok thanks. Maybe 12.5 and 12.6 is where big improvements will happen.

[@RubenKelevra]

9:27 please send in your disengagements.

[@neonicecube908]

Made it to 2:31 so far and can say that all the drivers seem overly agressive imo, endangering pedestrians left right and centre, and FSD is behaving like the only sane driver around.

[@FSDinNYC]

It's just a different game of driving, walking, and biking here compared to anywhere else I've ever been to in the country.

[@RubenKelevra]

1:11 FSD should have never entered the intersection. Please send in your disengagements.

[@Aku6Soku1Zan]

Did you get 12.3.6?

[@FSDinNYC]

I did recently and will update soon.

[@RubenKelevra]

6:14 overly generous? Wtf are you talking about? There's nowhere you could go anyway.

[@FSDinNYC]

I would have continued to creep forward. Especially in that area, pedestrians are crossing constantly so if I don't gently assert myself I may never make it across. Turns out there was a break in the pedestrians that allowed FSD to eventually go.

[@RubenKelevra]

@@FSDinNYC FSD judges the whole situation. Like it does not speed up to the speed limit when it sees a red light and stopped traffic in front. Creeping up does not lead to any gain in your travel time, but reduces pedestrian safety.

[@1staid788]

if everyone in NYC and other busy citys would have your mindset the traffic would completely collapse. you can't have only 1/3 of the road occupied by cars because of pedastrians that want to randomly cross the road

[@RubenKelevra]

@@1staid788 that's absolut bullshit 😂 He could have drove 3 car length forward and wait there 20 seconds later. What would be the impact on the road network doing this? 🤔 Right: zero.

[@1staid788]

@@RubenKelevra on a busy road it would have opend up space at the intersection behind him for more 3 cars.. how is driving 5mph and opening up space a bad trade...? don't worrie if you drive 5 mph you won't kill the peoüöe walking at the same speed but they just fiddle in like they do with every real driver -.-

[@yourjjrjjrjj]

And Elon thinks FSD is ready....LOL. Still at least 5 years away.

[@FSDinNYC]

At least 5 years for Level 5 autonomy. But geofenced Level 4 like Waymo, it could happen much sooner.

[@chrismullarkey3181]

I hear FSD doesn't stop for men who eat quiche.

[@Arron_Mottram]

Why don't pedestrians stand on the sidewalk waiting for a green light, but go straight out onto the road? It looks so wild to me.

[@FSDinNYC]

All the more impressive that FSD handles it so smoothly!

[@jonathanwiliams4993]

Because this is New York city. People are not going to change the way there way of operating for the car. Tesla has to conform to the way we operate

[@jonathanwiliams4993]

Because this is New York city. People are not going to change the way their way of operating for the car. Tesla has to conform to the way we operate.

[@tioswift3676]

Because NYC is hot garbage. Humans there are just trash.

[@solar2k6]

With all the ever changing driving conditions you can’t actually expect these cars to ever “fully” drive themselves do you? I mean be realistic. Serious question, I mean why call it “full self driving” when you’ll literally have to supervise it and lets be real you’re out of your mind if you think the public sentiment is anywhere near ready to place their children’s lives in the hands of a “self” driving vehicle.

[@jimelgarcia6760]

In time it may take 12 years of training in the ny field mixed with private stress testing but one day it will drive like pro it’s a matter of time

[@PDVism]

@@jimelgarcia6760 And that time has to be paid for by the customer while that customer is also fully liable for every mistake the car makes.... is it me or does that sound like a real shitty deal?

[@DerekDavis213]

@@jimelgarcia6760 One day it will drive like a pro? That is your HOPE, but there is zero evidence that day will come.

[@rockb]

Outdated Ver. 12.3.3 ☝️

[@FSDinNYC]

Will start posting 12.3.6 soon!

[@DerekDavis213]

@rockb And if 12.3.6 has problems, that one is *outdated* too? .

[@rockb]

@@DerekDavis213 No, I am neutral. But this version ist nearly as good as the 12.3.6, used by whole mars catalog in San Fran. It may fail in NY, too, but thats fine to me, looking forward for it.

[@jonathanwiliams4993]

But we're up to version 12.3.6 now...

[@FSDinNYC]

Coming soon

[@jebes909090]

you really think thats gonna make a difference. fsd will never be released in full. too much liability. computers just cant compare to a human while driving.

[@FSDinNYC]

@@jebes909090 I don't think 12.3.6 will fix these, but according to Elon 12.5 and 12.6 might. We will see. Robotaxi service is already being offered by Waymo in a few places and FSD seems not far off from doing the same. My view is this will happen in stages, just like internet access took ~15 years to spread across the country.

[@jebes909090]

@@FSDinNYC but elon ALWAYS says stuff like that. he does it to drive the stock price up.

[@FSDinNYC]

@@jebes909090 I don't know either when it will actually happen, but there is progress with each new version.

[@scrutch666]

so it still sucks and you cant trust it . fail

[@FSDinNYC]

As a taxi rider in NYC, I agree FSD is simply not ready to handle all the complexity. As a supervising driver in a suburban or rural setting, I would have a lot more trust in it.

[@scrutch666]

@@FSDinNYC yeah i was just surprised after all this impressive videos from the westcoast. It seamed like it was on the path to surprise everyone even skeptical people like me

[@umka7536]

NY traffic organization is mediocre. Also, why the hell Americans buy such huge vehicles?

[@FredPlanatia]

Car makers make a larger profit on large cars, advertising convinces consumers they need one, then those who don't have a big car yet are convinced to buy one because they can't see traffic anymore and feel unsafe in a smaller car.

[@warrenlee393]

really weird. your car may have some camera problem. never seen before that a tesla doesn't recognize red light. that could be reaaly horrible if you didn’t take over. anyway thank you for the video. really helpful. maybe completion of FSD will need way more time than my expectation.

[@FSDinNYC]

I think this clearly demonstrates FSD needs more time training in the city. If you look at the car's screen, it clearly sees the red signals so I'd say it not a camera problem but an FSD problem.

[@unclejoe8279]

A old city built for horse and buggy.

[@PDVism]

You mean like lots of cities in Europe, Asia etc. As in admitting that FSD kinda sorta works sometimes in US suburbs and US freeways but any time that it has to deal with a bit more serious stuff it certainly fails.

[@BlackJeepConvertible]

You should intervene immediately over even the slightest nuance, because every disengagement is automatically reported.

[@RubenKelevra]

3:03 please send in your disengagements.

[@FSDinNYC]

You mean report to Tesla? Yeah I should be more consistent in reporting!

[@DerekDavis213]

Other people *repeatedly* *report* problems with FSD, and several point releases later, the problems are still there! Reports don't seem to help much. .

[@RubenKelevra]

@@DerekDavis213 that's because point releases don't introduce more training data. The round-trip is longer.

[@fmobus]

@@RubenKelevra in other words: the solution is not mature and its developers can't really control what it does. I am happy this thing is not allowed where I live.

[@RubenKelevra]

@@fmobus lol. Looks like you can't just comprehend what I'm saying.

[@wumble7829]

You are making too many unnecessary interventions based on pressure from other drivers.

[@FSDinNYC]

Perhaps. My expectation is for FSD to driver like a taxi or Uber in NYC. And when it doesn't I intervene.

[@Kaipiso]

@@FSDinNYC Aren't taxi and Uber drivers the worst of the drivers in NY? Causing a lot of troubles, blocking intersections, illegally switching lanes, forcing themselves in front of others etc.? Never been there, but that would be my guess. No? But you want FSD to act like them?

[@FSDinNYC]

@@Kaipiso That's too harsh an assessment of taxi and Uber drivers in NYC, but to a lesser degree you have a point. However keep in mind that pedestrians and cyclists are at least the same if not worse. Thus FSD just needs to keep up.

[@tioswift3676]

I don’t own a Tesla, but I can tell You if you did this in my city, it would pass with flying colors. This area is nightmare mode with everything going on and the idiot pedestrians and idiot drivers.

[@DerekDavis213]

No, nightmare mode is at night or in the rain, during rush hour traffic. This trip was very easy, for a *human* . .

[@FSDinNYC]

Tioswift, totally agree with you. If Waymo can do it, FSD is really close too.

[@FSDinNYC]

@@DerekDavis213 As a human, I'll tell you this drive is easy for me now after having driven NYC for awhile but I made almost all the same mistakes when I first started driving in NYC. And at that time, I was a flawless suburban driver for 15+ years.

[@DerekDavis213]

@@FSDinNYC I have never driven in NYC, but if I was going to drive in the city, I would plan my route with Google Maps, and carefully look at the roads and turns that I would be making. Then I drive slowly and carefully, with no distractions in the car. I would not make FSD mistakes. No way. .

[@FSDinNYC]

@@DerekDavis213 My experience in NYC is minimally acceptable margin of safety, drive as aggressively as your comfort level is willing to tolerate, and be constantly prepared to detour.

[@musisijames9008]

Stop posting outdated versions of fsd, latest is 12.3.6

[@FSDinNYC]

I'll get there!

[@user-qm7be6nw9u]

you could have let it figure out the car at the right turn was parked & let it go around… the goal is getting from point A to point B not supernatural knowledge of whether every single possible lane in every single city is a driving / parking lane

[@FSDinNYC]

My standard is a robotaxi, or a ride that's same as a taxi or Uber.

[@maddmarmot]

This video simply demonstrates how humans should not be allowed to drive. Also if all cars were driverless there would be far less cars parked blocking up a whole side lane.

[@FSDinNYC]

To be fair, FSD has no idea how to park legally either. It's great at the mechanics of parking, but it doesn't know how to find a good and legal parking spot. Yet.

[@alex_lll]

So far humans handle driving way better than FSD

[@PDVism]

As long as a human has to babysit the FSD instead of FSD babysitting the human driver it shows that FSD is an unreliable toy. Any automated system that can't be relied upon 100% of the time is worthless, in fact it's worse than worthless because it is a danger.

[@FSDinNYC]

@@alex_lll I'll say experienced NYC drivers handle NYC driving way better than FSD. I've driven many years in California before driving a few years in NYC. I've made all similar mistakes when I first started driving NYC, including running that red.

[@FSDinNYC]

@@PDVism This is a tough one. I would have agreed with you with FSD 11, but no longer agree with FSD 12. Turning on 11 made my anxiety go up, but 12 actually allows me to relax and sit back. But if drivers become complacent and unaware, then I agree the better FSD becomes, the more dangerous it becomes until it finally hits "100%".