WASP 250 RF-excited plasma lamp teardown

[@kuhrd]

I actually like the fact that they chose to use WAGO connectors on this as it makes it much faster to repair or service in the field. In any sort of theater equipment, fast serviceability is an important selling point. These connectors don't really add any measurable amount of resistance at the power levels we are talking and they tend to hold very secure with stranded or tinned wire. You can pull solid wire out of them but you really have to want it.

[@AppliedScience]

Very nice! Search for "sulfur plasma lamp" for a similar (same?) technology.

[@askjacob]

The sulfur ones were excited by microwaves, and the bulb needed to be rotated by a motor. If I recall the tech died off for a few reasons, the primary one being the inventor not really wanting to license it out reasonably, and the fact that it had mechanical/rotary components. That and when you mention microwave technology, people who did not understand got scared of scary invisible (and not there) radiation of course... They were primarily installed in those air filled end lit tube systems in factories.

[@tantratron]

The sulphur at 2.45 GHz with magnetron (not solid-state RF amplifier) one were developed it seems by CeraVision UK and LG in Korea but each company failed the entry to market. I've never seen but heard lately that a new company made sulphur prototype has been now running solid-state at 433 MHz for high power and maybe small power with solid-state at 2.45 GHz. No idea if they've solved the troublesome issue to remove the mechanical-rotary of the sulphur bulb.

[@plasmainternationalgmbh5451]

The rotational Plasma Lighting System is still on the marked and all the old problems are solved. The main problem was related to the power supply and the live Time and not to the moving parts. In 14 years of working with rotational Plasma lighting System I never had a failing motor!! It's just a question on part cost/quality relation. And thru new electronics the live time of a Magnetron is in the upper 50.000h The development of Plasma Lighting is still going on for special markets. And for the people that have a problem with rotating we have a static solution that is working on 1000Watt Bulb power. (-;

[@guerrillaradio9953]

@@plasmainternationalgmbh5451 Internal rotor/external field coil X-ray tubes have worked very well for decades. Sounds interesting! :o)

[@michaelknight2342]

@@askjacob how old are the patents?

[@miksu103]

Those wago terminals are actually a lot better than they look at first. A lot faster then screw terminals, they don't damage the wire at all and the grip is extremely good. Those are called the wago 222, and there is a new version with a little bigger levers called wago 221. I gave away all my screw connectors after I found these.

[@Wtfinc]

ya i was a bit upset he did not seem to appreciate them. lol

[@TecKonstantin]

the gasket is made of Graphite, it is good for HF and heat transfer i use it to heat couple wave guides for high power etc.

[@ergohack]

TecKonstantin I agree, it looks exactly like grafoil.

[@CarrionAndAsh]

That reflector is a high quality electroformed nickel typically used with xenon short-arc lamps for its precision and resistance to UV radiation. The "AQ" refers to the reflective coating - vacuum deposited aluminium with protective quartz overcoat. This gives higher reflectivity in the visible range over the more standard electrodeposited rhodium but at the cost of lower durability.

[@jcims]

There's a slight pwm-type noise just under 16kHz when you have the camera near the back of the operating light (~3:30 mark). Was that audible or was it the camera picking up the EMI? I wonder if those filter screens kill the EMI. Maybe you need to run with those in place to meet FCC requirements. If you get a chance in the next vid it would be funny to see if it will work as a an ISM jammer and/or see if it will pick up on an FM radio. (Would also be cool to see if you can compare the spectrum output of these lights vs. LEDs if there's a convenient way to do it.) Neat teardown, looks like a pretty robust bit of kit. Thanks to the Hive folks for sending it to you!

[@tesla500]

The audible noise was real, not a camera artifact.

[@NickMoore]

Interesting that there was less RF voodoo than usual. I guess for an application where you don't need precision modulation you don't need to do much to the signal. Very cool technology, thanks for the teardown!

[@pufero1]

It have SWR metter for protecion (the small printed circuit on the uper right of the of clas C transitor and a variable cap for tune the antena/lamp just missing some band filters on the output.

[@jcims]

Interesting. Is that the little monkey tail that passes under the arch and has a component at the end? Do you think a bulb failure could cause it to start reflecting signal back to the board or would it just dump out the hole?

[@pufero1]

I think yes, the "little monkey tail" It will triger the SWR circuit theses high power RF transitors whit no antena/load can burn so fast SWR protecion is a must. No sure but this mosfet worth over 100-200€ If me i willl hack it for open garaje around my house. xD

[@hi-friaudioman]

that same RF excited process was used in certain projection tv's throughout their time. very interesting technology.

[@tesla500]

Wow, I never knew that tech made it into consumer products. Any specific TV models you know of that have one?

[@SwitchingPower]

Those wago push-in connection blocks have an orange latch on them to firmly lock the wires in place.

[@AndrewGillard]

SwitchingPower Yeah I have no problem with Wago blocks being used in situations like that, especially if some degree of serviceability is required. Nothing's coming loose from a Wago connector any time soon :)

[@floriandaler5327]

Andrew Gillard They are better than Those frickin' wire nuts! German Engineering FTW!

[@DoRC]

according to the website it's those wire meshes that were in the bag that are supposed to block the em.

[@cpronikkor2603]

I used to own 2 television sets that used this technology, they were built by Panasonic under their "Lifi" range to highlight "Luxim Lifi" plasma discharge lamps. They offered a 5 year lamp warranty, and the units they built were unreliable for one reason or another (Never got more than one year out of the lamps). I believe the problem was with their RF feedback circuitry. The lamps were not a user serviceable part and it was like talking to a brick wall when dealing with the service department of my big box store who needed to have their hands held dealing with Panasonic since it was not a standard part and I had an extended warranty through the store, but that is another story. Interesting thing, I took one of the lamps apart years later, there is a "Radioactive Materials" sticker on the inside of the lifi 4000 case indicating Krypton-85, which I assume is in the capsule of the discharge pill, and I am guessing your unit is the same way. The light quality from those things is awesome though when they work. The unit I had was a module with everything needed including the lamp built into a very well machined aluminum case.

[@Pillowcase]

The mesh discs are called "Scrims" and are a way of attenuating the light output.

[@naqsaq]

The connector is an Amphenol SP-4-FN. Typically used as a speaker connector for PA systems (called "speakon", originally made by Neutrik)

[@harizhent]

No no no, these connectors shown in video are not speakons, they are powercons - smilliar but you cannot interconnect those. Powercons are for supplying the power, speakons are for supplying signal (usually amplified).

[@naqsaq]

Yes yes yes. It's clearly the speakon type I posted. Do an image search and you'll see.. Amphenol powercons are not colored that way. Even the speakons are good for continuous 30-40A, so it's no issue here..

[@harizhent]

Yes you are right! it is speakon! i have stoped the video and looked at the female terminal and - bam it is speakon. i just assumed that product would go by the standard.

[@xenonram]

hariz hent That's not good. someone could plug the wrong things into it.

[@harizhent]

Definatly! That was my first thought after Saku replied!

[@BenjaminEsposti]

+tesla500 16:52 That chip is likely not an RF generator. I'm pretty sure it is an LM25007MM (datasheet says the marking is SLYB, and it's in a VSSOP package). It's a buck voltage regulator. That's why you see the decent sized inductor next to it! :D My guess is that the RF generator might be that SOT23-5 device that you see near the center of the unit, in the area of the TO-89 package device. I also noticed the coil-whine type noise as well. Is that coming from the lamp or the power supply? Very annoying, at least for me, with my relatively sensitive ears. (my headphones are at a comfortable level too)

[@ExStaticBass]

Now that I'm thinking about it perhaps those metal screens are for RF shielding... Just a thought... Another thought is that it's too bad those aren't DMX controllable...

[@DoRC]

while it does make the construction feel a little garage factoryish those wago terminals are incredibly robust. they have video of a torture test where the entire wiring melts around the terminal but it still holds.

[@PlaywithJunk]

the stuff around the lamp module is most likely thermal paste and graphite heat conducting tape. This is used to transfer the heat to the heatsink. So a tight fit is necessary :-)

[@bluefoxtv1566]

Did you test the RF output of the other light to see it it is any less noisy?

[@gglovato]

just asked the same!

[@tesla500]

Just tested it, pretty much the same in the assembled light.

[@kiiverkk]

Maybe you could try with one of those metal mesh filters attached in front and see if it affects RF?

[@gglovato]

tesla500 that is kind of horrid then, even if it's at 433mhz, don't baby monitor work at that frequency?, mayb you could do some experiment...

[@Майквлагалище]

Guillermo Lovato baby monitors don't consume 250watts. more like a fraction of a watt.

[@NOBOX7]

that looks like a lead gasket or graphite . a regular thermal compound would not fair well in an rf system , its probly used as a heat paste to give good thermal conductivity , doubt its an rf shield but hey im speculating too my friend, love your work

[@JerryBiehler]

Neat, I have some of the luxim prototype units. They run off 12v which makes them pretty portable.

[@flyingmoose]

Can you check the RF emissions on the one you didn't take apart, since you were talking about how it passed RFI certification?

[@tesla500]

Just tested it, pretty much the same in the assembled light.

[@glynnetolar4423]

Great! In the 70cm ham band. Thanks Hive!

[@mq1506]

Did you compare the RF output with your stock light?

[@tesla500]

Just tested it, pretty much the same in the assembled light.

[@tesla500]

So I did some digging. This lamp falls under FCC part 18 (RF lighting devices). This standard allows for over 2.5 million times the radiated power limit of normal consumer devices (FCC part 15 class B), in this case, 70dBuV/m @ 30m at this frequency, equivalent to 110dBuV/m @ 3m. The FCC part 15 class B standard allows 46dBuV/m at this distance and frequency. I was astonished that the FCC allows such an exemption.

[@Майквлагалище]

tesla500 we got sick from these lights. try using those RF lights for more than a couple weeks in close proximity on a shoot for 8+ hrs a day. we experienced radiation exposure. I love the lights but we felt very sick until we stopped using them .

[@txm100]

Sounds like placebo.

[@sunhuatom]

Great vid! The RF part should be using ceramic substrate for lower loss and better heat conductivity. It would be fun to place the lamp in our meeting room and disable all those laser pointers working at the same band.

[@jimzielinski946]

can you determine if the quartz lamp outputs any UV light and if so what it's spectrum would be? I'm wondering if this lamp setup might be a substitute for mercury or xenon arc lamps that are used for their UV output. mercury and xenon lamps used for microscopy have relatively short lifespans, sometimes only a few hundred hours. they also require a minimum runtime and a minimum cool down time lest they explode. I'm wondering if this lamp design has those same limitations.

[@mackocour]

What is the problem with that much power being radiated? It will jam the 436mhz frequency for other devices that are using it?

[@spectrHz]

I had no idea projects could back each other, that's really cool, also, the lamp is freaking awesome.

[@Slot1Gamer]

probably more like they contacted him directly and offered a trade :)

[@spectrHz]

quite cool nonetheless, I wish companies could exchange knowledge and cool stuff like this more often just for the sake of having eachothers cool shit :)

[@TommyCallaway]

Great teardown. I was wondering about these lights.

[@AureliusR]

Funny that you complain about Wago terminal blocks - I'm guessing you haven't worked with them much. They are extremely reliable and quite expensive, and they do the job exceptionally well.

[@BenjaminEsposti]

I personally am hesitant about using them because of the stab-in connectors on duplex sockets, which are known to cause bad connections. I know, they're a totally different manufacturer and a different design, but I've never really had much confidence in these sorts of connections.

[@FrankSiler]

Actually, those wire connectors are Wago levernuts. I agree that something more permanent would be best for production, but those are much better than a wire nut or crummy electrical tape splice.

[@hardwareful]

Awesome piece of tech, I wonder however why they didn't help adjust he color change by adjusting some forced air cooling

[@daveb5041]

What would happen if you hooked that up to an1/4 wave antenna? Could you just take an antenna that is the perfect length for that frequency and make it transmit? Or would a little tiny difference in SWR just cause it to blow up in 1 second? Would be cool to turn it on for 1 second and see how far away you could pick it up.

[@among-us-99999]

that would be illegal AF

[@aaronbrandenburg2441]

Don't do it you'll be sorry

[@NotRealNamesAgain]

Is the "coil whine" type of sound as noticable in person as it was in the video while you had the lamp on? (For example- when you adjusted it down at 5:57 it really seemed to screech) SUPER interesting lamp, though if the coil whine is as noticable as in the video, it would drive me "up the wall".

[@tesla500]

The coil whine is noticeable but not too bad in person.

[@NotRealNamesAgain]

I think I must be bothered by it more than most. I've chucked PC power supplies and graphics cards thanks to that whine. Thanks for the reply.

[@originaltonywilk]

The linked Luxim pdf details pretty specific burn orientation whereas their site FAQ says orientation doesn't matter - I wonder which is correct...

[@stuartthegrant]

What a nice piece of kit.

[@bluelemonify]

It seems these companies disappear, links are dead, any ideas why and whether some other companies follow the product?

[@volvo09]

very interesting light lighttechnology. thanks for the teardown

[@eurobum2012]

I really want to know what the transmitter element looks like. I guess you can't smash that ceramic apart huh.

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

Those are not push-in connectors btw, those are the lever type. And hey if they are good enough for wiring in a house, it's good enough for a 200W lamp

[@tantratron]

Regarding the non-FCC compliance, have you made sure the 433 MHz RF driver is earthed as well as the Luxim resonator, the RF cox and so ?

[@billbob5268]

Can anyone explain the annotation at 19:25? He says it is 70dBuV/m at 30m which is the same as 100dBuV/m at 3m. But I thought the power followed the inverse square law, and so moving 10 times closer to the source would yield 100 times more power, which is only a 20 decibel increase instead of the 40 he shows. I appreciate if anyone can point out the flaw in my reasoning.

[@EricssonChu]

I have one of these lights, and the temperature is skewing a lot blue (I'm getting 11000k on the 5600k setting). Do you know if there is something I might be able to adjust on the unit to fix this by any chance?

[@PeteBrubaker]

Those look to be Neutrik connectors. Perhaps speakON or powerON series?

[@eurobum2012]

powerCON

[@xenonram]

Pete Brubaker Where?

[@harizhent]

By the standard it should be powercon, but female terminal shows us that it was Speakon :/

[@xenonram]

True, but I'm still not seeing "expensive connectors."

[@ZevHoover]

how efficient is this compared to LEDs? the heat sinking looks pretty minimal.

[@rogeronslow1498]

I was wondering what the advantages of an RF excited lamp are over a conventional arc lamp or metal halide.

[@thomasguilder9288]

Roger Onslow I would guess longer lifetime due to no electrode degradation and contaminating the gas atmosphere in the discharge bulb. Also no glass to metal seals for wires which may leak

[@gglovato]

Tesla, did you do a RF test of the final unit to see the radiated emissions?

[@VEC7ORlt]

Cool tech, but when LEDs start pushing 150lm/W why bother? High CRI probably. Other lamps had its capsule rotate, that was kinda cool.

[@tesla500]

HID and derivatives like this do have one major advantage over current LEDs: way smaller emitter size, which allows much better focusing. An LED putting out this much light would be about 5x the diameter so your beam would diverge 5x faster, or you'd need a 5x larger reflector to get the same divergence.

[@VEC7ORlt]

I'd say that depends, the ones you used in your project are especially bad in that regard, and you still need to do mosaic optics if you want hundreds of watts. There are things like CBT-140 from Luminus - emitting area is 14sqmm, but only around 4klm. AFAIR best efficiency for RF excited lamps is around 90lm/wRF, but continuous spectra is not the thing that LEDs are known for, but hey, you can already buy 180lm/W chips off the shelf, scratch that Samsung SPMWHT541ML5XAR0S6 - 212lm/W.

[@keleighshepherd345]

The theatre connector is a Neutrik PowerCon connector, similar in design to their Speakon audio connector but keyed differently to avoid accidental cross wiring of power and speaker outputs!

[@harizhent]

I just stopped the video and it is not powercon - it is speakon. I was duped also...

[@keleighshepherd345]

hariz hent huh, you're not wrong! It is most certainly a Speakon connection, the keying of a Powercon is at 270° to the large key, whereas Speakon is at 180° to the large key. Using Speakon as the connector is technically viable as it can pass 30A at 250V ac, but that also means that if the lights are being used alongside professional live audio equipment, the power supply output could be connected to an amplifier or speaker, doing serious damage to internal components. Hence Powercon being a thing! Good eyes spotting my mistake! I'd assumed it was a Powercon because, well it's supplying a decent current and its not an audio device... (that's a decade or so of live sound engineering habit there, hard to break those assumptions!)

[@harizhent]

It was not my eyes. I made the same assumption!

[@KeenanTims]

I wonder if they chose SpeakOn because PowerCon is normally used for AC mains, while this is carrying 28VDC. 120 or 240VAC would certainly fry everything, while the output of a power amp at least has a chance of not.

[@eduardoanonimo3031]

I hope to see this lamp on youre set

[@hi-friaudioman]

powerCon is the name of the power connector. probably the powerCon True1 model.

[@TedBackus]

i still am surprised by how many American residents head void if removed stickers. they dont apply in the US, im not sure about Canada though.

[@playdav485]

hi are you going to test the rf output of the lamp you didn't take apart to compare

[@sharedknowledge6640]

While this technology may have had a market niche many years ago I'm not sure it still does? What can it do that LEDs can't without the massive RF issues? High power RF is problematic for multiple reasons.

[@topshelf4581]

enjoyed vid. awesome light and narration. are u an electronical engineer by chance?

[@douro20]

Yes, he's an electrical engineer.

[@mbirth]

That awfully high pitched noise though... (around 3:00)

[@robmckennie4203]

is that a record number 5 on your bench? I like your taste

[@tesla500]

Best vice I've ever used by far. Came with the house when we moved in actually.

[@robmckennie4203]

tesla500 I have a number 1 and a number 5, both the older "made in England" type. They seem to know a thing or two about making a vice

[@munxprojectsalternative]

very nice, thank you

[@Ender_Wiggin]

Why use such expensive connectors?

[@NightWolfx03]

Seems like when you ran the one you didn't take all the way apart it was making noise on your camera.

[@tesla500]

That was real noise, it makes a slight whine.

[@FeiUSA]

how can i get the sample? can you sell it to me ?

[@Slay1337pl]

Exciting.

[@ciaranfarley]

why didn't you put the antena on your osciliscope next to the one that passed certification and see what the difference is between that one and the one you took apart ?

[@LittleRainGames]

Ciarán Farley-Toone thats what i was thinking

[@LittleRainGames]

I think he actually said he was barely getting anything off of it when he first turned it on though

[@sauroman1]

Better than LED?

[@christopherleubner6633]

The concentrated light from these is awsome for microscope use, the laser driven lights are better though. 😁😎❤

[@zusurs]

Just wondering - doesn't these companies that send you stuff for review and teardown are not quite disappointed about you pointing out their engineering flaws AND potentially giving away their trade secrets for engineering?

[@tesla500]

I'm not giving away anything secret. Anyone could got out and get one of these lights, and do the same analysis I did and come to the same conclusions. As for pointing out flaws, don't send me things if you're not confident in your product, or can't handle an honest analysis of things I thought could be done better.

[@zusurs]

tesla500 Thank you for answer - seems fair enough. I simply mostly think of all the companies that send tech for review, as being insecure and scared of any bad reputation that they could get from in-depth reviews from professionals like you. Of course - if there are companies that actually value others input (even public one), just gives them bonus points in my eyes.

[@PlasmaHH]

If after a couple of months they get out a new revision, then you know exactly why they sent it: to have someone do the work of finding flaws for them for free ;) There are a few companies that do it that way...

[@antman7673]

What is rf?

[@lukasreddig5023]

Why is there the fake CE icon the RF generator altough it looks alright?

[@Gigawipf]

You are right, almost missed it. That is definetly not a real CE at 9:30. On the power supply it looks like the genuine one.

[@tesla500]

I've seen fake (wrong spacing) CE marks on legit Apple products, among others. It is an engineering sample too.

[@Slot1Gamer]

whats the EMI of the production unit like? Is it just as bad?

[@althds7099]

did he said RF porn?

[@dtiydr]

Because that what it was.

[@stilbenenet1181]

if you are interested in RF porn watch mikeselectricstuff's 10GHz link teardown.

[@cda32]

I guess that color control is a pretty literal color temperature control adjusting the black-body radiation.

[@brianimig2820]

Those are called powercon connectors

[@JeremyMcMillan]

0:55 the cable connector is called "Speakon" www.google.com/search?q=speakon+connectors

[@vincei4252]

I'd be concerned about being in situ with that amount of RF power. Very impressive, though. I love seeing the insides of RF gear.

[@Wtfinc]

i think the glass pane in front of the lamp is coated in thin clear metal to filter the RF

[@inductivelycoupledplasma6207]

I wouldn't worry about RF exposure, since it's designed to radiate as little as possible. Regardless, 250 watts of RF isn't an insane amount, but still enough to cause injury if you're stupid

[@matthewprestine1974]

looks like good old lead tape used an rf block.

[@althds7099]

also what is RF

[@x_ph1l]

"RF" means "Radio Frequency". In this case it's a High power and high frequency generator.

[@TheProCactus]

Just like a DVD player, In 6 years it will be worth 50 bucks.

[@adamt4417]

13:29 It's tapered.

[@semidemiurge]

40Lm/W

[@chrisellingson123]

11:36 - Hopefully there is no beryllium oxide in that lamp!

[@thomasguilder9288]

Chris Ellingson Why? As long as you don‘t start to grind it it would be perfectly safe!

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

> EMI > IP67 rating please keep in mind that not every viewer is aware of all those abbreviations. i had to look that up and it would definitely be worthwhile spending 2 seconds to briefly mention what those mean in the video.

[@gamerpaddy]

people should be smart enough to look it up by themselves, on tech channels theres no place for dumb and lazy people.

[@volvo09]

gamerpaddy yup, pause vid and look it up. I do it often, as there's nothing worse than a video that drags on because every easily researched item has to be gone over again and again.

[@superdau]

See, and now after you search for it, you will remember it. If it would have been explained in the video you would most likely forget it as soon as the video is over. Also I think most viewers on technical videos *are* aware of all those abbreviations which would be pretty bored if they have to listen to explanations in all videos.

[@dtiydr]

If you look at videos like this you are expected to have at least some common knowledge.

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

what if my common knowledge is in some other language? what if country of my common knowledge uses its local certification procedures? btw quickly looking "emi" up produces first 5 pages of results about "Emitech Technical Services LLC" and "Energy Management Institude".

[@connorclucas]

Thermal paste

[@connorclucas]

It's thermal paste