Test: Silent Partner vs Revo FALLS

[@HowNOT2]

I love the human testing! haha

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

HowNOTtoHIGHLINE Thank you Mr. Jenks!! Testing on humans is the final step before it can be recommended to the “public”!!

[@slappy1031]

I used to take lead falls on tiny gear on purpose so yes I get it. no revo for me I have my trusty silent partner. my first Silent Partner did wear out so the day may come where I'm looking for a new device so I appreciate what you're doing

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Slappy thanks!!

[@johnliungman1333]

Nice to see it tested beyond what it is made for. The basic design could probably be used for a silent partner replacement if it was adapted for this. But the current configuration (including the heightened speed at which it engages) is obviously not ideal. I would also like to point out that the setup you show is clogging, not rope soloing. Also, remember that in both of those scenarios the weight of the rope below you may be significant to the behaviour of the device.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

When you say clogging, you mean top rope soloing vs lead solo climbing? Absolutely! Yes the weight of the rope on death side can trigger the “repetitive unlock failure” of the Revo. See other video on my channel about this very topic!

[@swashington942]

I have a question for you John

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

LOOK at the following video! Fall Factor 2 on the Revo: the rope is wrecked and Revo too!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGqXo6WEmMaMeNE

[@oualt2322]

Salut Yann,bravo et merci pour tes vidéos,c'est propre et très clair,j'ai 48 ans,je grimpe depuis la fin du siècle dernier, je fais des grandes voies en solo depuis un bon moment maintenant,environ 10ans,classique ou trad,et j'ai travaillé sur corde un bon moment aussi... Je solote toujours avec un gri gri,et en checkand une de tes vidéos,je me suis acheté un revo ,l'an dernier,je l'ai modifié'(merci pour les conseils),et en fait ,je n'ai aucune confiance dans le revo, trop compliqué comme système,je dirais même fragile, je pense qu'il faut aller au plus simple, donc je garde mon bon vieux gri gri première génération...merci et bravo pour ce que tu fais,même si sur le fond ,je désapprouve les tutos sur le ropesoloing, beaucoup de gens s'y mettent trop rapidement et le nombre d'accident explose...je pense que grace à tes explications,tu contribues à limiter le nombre de grosse bêtisse en falaise. Bonne grimpe !...Je viens de me prendre un portaledge...sympa les aller et retour pour monter tout le matos !....

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Ca fait plaisir! Oui je trouve que le Revo est bien si tu es quasi-certain de ne pas tomber. Un grigri est plus "passe partout". Cependant pas si simple de trouver une source fiable pour les détails du système, les dangers spécifiques, etc. De là les cours que j'offre sur mon site bliss climbing!!! Merci pour le feedback :-)

[@fultonius]

Could you not have shown us what the damage was? It's a bit frustrating having it just off screen.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thanks for the comment! Here is the damage :-) facebook.com/BlissClimbing/posts/2993798397357827

[@limbworks]

I checked out the picture on facebook showing the damage and read the comments there. So is the damage is from falling on a Revo that's already locked off? Thought it would be nice to be able to quickly lock it off manually if you know your about to fall to lessen your travel. Now I'm thinking that's not such a good idea if it's going to cause damage. Interested to know how you modified it. Couldn't find it online it I understand not wanting to share that publicly. I've been climbing for years with a Silent Partner but had to sell it a while back. Have regretted it ever since!

[@SeraphinoII]

A VERY importan thing is that if you are high enough the weight of the rope can unlock it. Then it will lock again and unlock until the weight of the rope isn't enough to disengage the metal part which block the inside mechanism. I think " Gunk climber" said something about It. So a device specifically made for that role Is better than One which Is not? Surprising... Wouldn't It be a better comparison between a grigri and a Revo?

[@HoratioBannister]

I enjoy your informative videos very much and look forward to your lead, rope solo videos. Currently I lead rope solo with a GriGri+ and everytime I consider checking out the revo, I get a sick feeling in my stomach as tests show damage to the rope, or (now) damage to the device. This does not lead to trust! I will be interested to see what your conclusions are over time and if Wild Country will come out with an updated product. I am considering a SP. For tope rop solo, I use an ascension and a micro traxion, or a rescucender and a micro traxion, if i have 2 strands. Cheers and thanks for the videos.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thanks for the comments!

[@HoratioBannister]

I have updated to a uAscend for my upper device for TR solo. Light and very nice! Much lighter than my recucender.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@HoratioBannister Agreed 100% !

[@spaceman8839]

Thank you very much! subscribed

[@Astilath]

Hiya. Can you do a follow up on this with the damage shown? Im sure Wild Country would love to see the user feedback too. I use an inverted ATC guide set up for this before but it locks up hard on falls. Very tricky to lower on overhangs too. I do have a Revo for normal use. I like it a lot. Nice video. Thanks very much for going to the effort of showing this!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Rhys Morgan I posted some pictures of the damage on Facebook. Tell me if the link works for you: facebook.com/BlissClimbing/photos/a.1815976205140058/2993795430691457/?type=3 also the damage never got worse after a few more falls. Looks good to me!!!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Rhys Morgan I contacted Wild Country. They say no solo climbing should be done with the Revo. They did not comment on the damage. I still use my Revo and it still seems to work fine... You can look at a recent video I posted where I climb 6 pitches with the Revo.

[@alessandrorosa]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I've just bought a new revo and modified it. I made some tests and seen some "damage" just as you. After some investigation I understood that the damage is done when - under load - you unlock the revo pulling on the spare rope. The steel cam exits and "grinds" on the edge of the stop-block on the orange wheel. I believe this is normal and I think that this type of unlocking should be avoided (or done more "gently").

[@Jay-kk3dv]

It's my understanding that the silent partner works so well because its stopping action is caused by the hitch knot tightening around the cylinder rather than other devices that use cams. You can also back it up with another device. So, why did they stop manufacturing it?

[@skyking6989]

To my knowledge, it was because the cost of production was costing more then they could sell it for.

[@Schach1232]

Love those videos! Thanks for sharing! What do you mean with : Revo "modified" /"non modified side?

[@Schach1232]

Sorry found your coment below! Thanks👌🏽

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Schach1232 Cool! Thanks for the comment!

[@Brainstunt]

Nice Video! Perhaps you have advice for a project i have. For my tree house i want to be able to secure the kids when climbing up and down the 8m ladder. Like in the tree climbing parks i want to have a rope goung all the way up and down in a loop, with a safety device on top and just a roll at the bottom. So you would connect your harness with a strap on that loop. I thought the revo would be a good choice, however, when it stops/brakes, it needs to be re-engaged if i see it correctly, and this cannot be done if it is fixed on top of the tree house... any idea?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

The Revo is too dangerous for that type of use. It requires extreme care and expert knowledge. How old are your kids? Maybe plan a regular top rope? Too bad you need a belayer but it is MUCH safer!!

[@Brainstunt]

Thanks for your advice! Meanwhile I already bought the Revo and it fits exactly my needs. Not finally installed, but i have tested it the way it will operate. It hangs at the top of the tree (dry conditions) and the rope is looped through it and through a roll at the bottom. So all you do before climbing the ladder, you connect your harness with the strap on the rope and climb - totally fool-proof, nobody has the Revo in his/her hands. While one strap goes up the other strap goes down, so there is no need of moving the loop back if the next person climbs up. This works because the Revo is symmetric and works in both directions. In case it catches a fall, it can be unlocked by pulling the other end of the rope - this i saw in another demo video. I saw your comment and Facebook image regarding the wear in the orange aluminium - thanks for that and good point! However, in my situation it will likely never lock, because the ladder is an easy climb. I have it just for the piece of mind ;-)

[@graealex]

I know it's quite a time since you wrote - but your situation needs - despite being quite the investment - an auto belay. There is no other device you can just place on the top to secure your kids without someone else.

[@Brainstunt]

@@graealex okay, I take the challenge 🤓 I have started with the tree house, it will be 15m instead 8m. And still, the revo will work like an auto belay, only it locks instead of slowing the fall (dynamic rope needed). Will show the whole build in my treehouse series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5DYlneNqKmFm6M

[@HoratioBannister]

Also, what are the modifications that you did to the Revo?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Are you a member of the Rope Solo Climbing group on FaceBook? You will find the link there. Please answer the questions to be accepted. Cheers!!

[@Strett]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing What if people don't have facebook? Can you let us know what's modified or we'll be left guessing, which could be more dangerous than the free sharing of safety information. Thanks

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Strett You got to do what you got to do... A Revo or modified Revo or other device will not keep you safe. YOU are the backbone of the system. It is important soloists regroup to learn by discussion and exchange. Not a good idea to learn Rope Solo from failure. www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116598492/revo-rope-solo-spring-modification-for-faster-lockup?fbclid=IwAR3DDAuIVUMVI3SIBcRMumgXfoEda3gif_bXFyKtOSFpUb8195C-M2YIWYI

[@Strett]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I agree, never trust 1 device, always have backups. Thanks very much Yann :)

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Strett Not sure I understand your answer... Sometimes one is enough: one harness, one 10mm rope, one big alive three, etc. Having a device and a backup will not keep you safe: YOU are the backbone of the system. Good luck!

[@antonioalarconmarquez8503]

hola yann el revo lo encuentras mas seguro que el silent o que el soloits? gracias un saludo

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

No no! Basicamente, el Silent is safer. Pero tienes que entender que la seguridad no viene de las herramientas pero mas bien del escalador... ?Eso tiene sentido?

[@JonPoulson]

Thanks. Great content.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You are welcome!!!

[@kirutrailic8227]

What does modified Revo mean? Is Revo better for lead rope solo than GriGri+? Why? Which issues solve modifications?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

blissclimbing.com/en/blog/2023/04/27/q-what-is-the-best-system-for-lead-rope-solo-climbing/ and people modify the Revo to make it catch at lower speeds… makes sense?

[@kirutrailic8227]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Thanks, and if you should use only one belay device (available in stores), which would it be and why?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@kirutrailic8227 for everything? (Rappel, belay a leader, belay someone from above, belay someone on TR, TRS and LRS?)

[@kirutrailic8227]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing for lead rope solo and without making modifications, that change something in device... but I would like to buy semi-automatic belay device and use it for lead rope solo too but only in easy routes very occasionally (I have CT RollnLock so maybe with it in set for sport routes)

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@kirutrailic8227 I don’t understand sorry. Check my online course, you will learn a TON. And I will take the time to answer in private.

[@itrstt66]

where can i buy a silent partner?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Ebay. The thing is not manufactured anymore...

[@johnymorgan]

Please explain what the modification is?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

It is in the online course in detailed videos. Also can be found on Mountain Project on a forum discussion. It makes the Revo lock at slower speed. NOTE that the mod could make the device fail if the spring impedes the mechanism. blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/

[@kangdanlin]

hello, what modification did you do to the Revo?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I modified it so it locks at slower speeds. It locks faster than an untouched Revo. Description of the mod is here: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116598492/revo-rope-solo-spring-modification-for-faster-lockup . It is not so easy to do. I made a video where I explain in details, it is available when you buy the Lead Rope Solo online course here: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/

[@itrstt66]

what is a modified revo??

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

A Wild Country Revo that is modified: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116598492/revo-rope-solo-spring-modification-for-faster-lockup

[@sapineta1980]

Sorry, why do you have modified the Revo?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

To make it catch around 2 m/s. Not 4 m/s. I don’t say it is better or worse, but this is what I did!

[@sapineta1980]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing ooook! Thanks for all

[@franciscogarrido4536]

Hola, mi mejor soloist que silente partner y revo y gracias

[@erinmcgowan7980]

The revo is not meant for rope soloing.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Erin McGowan Thanks! I should have mentioned that!!

[@namelastname2449]

I have watched this video like 20 times at least

[@namelastname2449]

My observation is that the “less” (edited) horizontal you fall the longer the fall is with the SP.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@namelastname2449 That is interesting!! Do you think being horizontal results in a slower pull on the device? This should be the only possibility as the device is activated by speed…

[@namelastname2449]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing thanks for your reply. I will look into this but a frame by frame would be the best. A less intuitive mechanical analysis would say something like your potential energy up is equal to your kinetic energy plus your potential energy. Conservation of momentum also applies, zero on top, plus your I*w being I your inertia moment around the z axis, at bottom, (perpendicular to the screen) and w is your angular speed (that is the movement between being in hanging position to being in horizontal position). All that plus the losses inside the SP and the biners and etc.

[@namelastname2449]

So if we want less speed, that means more angular momentum (the SP doesn’t see angular momentum). Less speed is more time to catch. I think we can leave it at something like that.

[@namelastname2449]

So what I only see possible here, is that losses are higher in a system with more angular momentum, and that makes kinetic energy lower - and slower catch. But the eqs have a couple of ^2 factors so they are not linear, but I thinks that’s it.

[@tblends]

No bueno, damage after 5 falls, scary!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thanks!

[@FabioSpelta]

These again are unfortunately top rope tests.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

When you clip on lead above your waist, you get this situation. A device that you want to use to lead must be effective in this scenario! Have you seen the factor 2 test fall video on the Revo? (not mine but I can find the link...)

[@slappy1031]

And those were toprope falls

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Slappy yess! OR lead if you fall right after clipping a QuickDraw ... Easy to compare devices in that type of fall. And less scary for me!! Did you see the test of the Revo in a fall factor 2 situation?

[@DearthXalex]

you should have been wearing your safety gear to show good practices.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You mean I should have worn a helmet?

[@TheZIEDO]

Amateur!!!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

What do you mean? Please teach me something!