The huge advantage of these drives was with the DIMM variant that Intel didn't release to the general market. They would have been amazing in servers and laptops, really giving M.2 some fierce competition due to their low latency but it failed because Intel got greedy locked it down to intel servers then charged an insane price of $15,000 for a 512GB stick. Big thanks for the video.
@ElectronicsWizardry Жыл бұрын
I would have like to see the optane as ram concept grow. I have an idea of a system with one large pool of optane working as memory and storage and having very fast load times as there is less or no copying between memory and storage that is commonly done now.
@whyjay99599 ай бұрын
15K?! I thought one of their main advantages was being cheaper per GB than DRAM.
@ericneo29 ай бұрын
@@whyjay9959 The only cheap ones were the ones marketed and sold as laptop cache drives and pair in a special raid with HDD. They are so expensive because they can effectively operate as non-volatile RAM. Intel saw this and decided to charge insane amounts of money for the tech which ultimately killed it's adoption.
@BlueRice5 ай бұрын
@ElectronicsWizardry ram is so cheap now. Virtual memory kind of do the same for that matters no matter how big your ram is. But then it require the os to be designed to do it in the first place? I think Playstation did somewhat exactly like this on their co controller, except that their loading time is already written on their storage. It didn't know need to compute read and write. It already has it file loaded already written. It just load right off to it to a new map like it's ram. That's how it can play 4k m Texture and map real time. Correct me if I'm wrong
@anon7661 Жыл бұрын
I think there is alot of people getting into homelabs currently. I've personally found you incredibly easy to watch and really clear.
Жыл бұрын
Thanks to your prior videos, I'm now running an unobtrusive Proxmox homelab cluster of 1-liter PCs using Optane accelerators/hybrids as boot drives and enterprise SATA SSDs for the VMs, all second-hand and low-ish cost. This makes for tiny energy-saving nodes that are relatively wear-resistant and impervious to power loss issues, so no RAID setup required.
@EdvardasSmakovas Жыл бұрын
I am buying these for latency and endurance, perfect for zfs and proxmox boot. You could heavily over provision nand SSD's, but pcie gen4+ nand drives are also very hot and it's sometimes a problem. Pity all the selloff is happening in US :/
@Error42_ Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the heads up on ZFS Special Drives. I didn't even know that was a thing. It looks like something worth investigating 👍
@wayland7150 Жыл бұрын
Unlike cache the special drive becomes a vital part of the drive array. The hard drives won't be readable without the special drive so you really need two and mirror them. I was tempted to do this on my TrueNAS but I realised being able to recover my data easily was more important than extra speed. I might one day do it but I will use two special drives mirrored.
@ArtofServer Жыл бұрын
yeah, I think your analysis is pretty spot on. I too really wanted to see where Micron and Intel would take Optane, but really sad to see it get shelved. I think the cost per gigabyte was too high, and they just didn't get enough of these into the market to leverage any economies of scale.
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
Yup capitalism clearly did not breed innovation here to say the least. We literally lost an entire half step above nand ssds due to cost cuts, that's crazy 💀
@tannerbean38013 ай бұрын
I worked for 4 years in the Intel-Micron fab making 3DxP. I also looked forward to see what could be done with it, and I was quite disappointed when they decided to mothball (permanently terminate) the technology. That was a couple years before Intel put an end to Optane in New Mexico.
@williamcleek49225 ай бұрын
Good vid. Optane will have a place until NAND drops latency and increases write resiliency. I don't see Optane as capacity - only caching at reduced cost vs RAM. And, your point is valid regarding high workloads, there is a point where parallelism increases making NAND throughput a better choice all around - the choice needing scrutiny on a case by case basis.
@iyke8913 Жыл бұрын
Great video! For the Optane m.2 stick, you should have used the p1600x 56gb or 112gb for the comparison. It would have performed better, and the price is hard to beat on Newegg right now.
@declanmcardle Жыл бұрын
But the video would be much shorter as the benchmarks would take less time. :-) I have a couple of the 112GB drives.
@be-kind0011 ай бұрын
What's the difference between those and what was in the video?
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
@@SC-hk6uiAlso the p1600x gets crazy close to the p5800x in qd1 reads. I'm getting 10.5 microseconds of latency or about 370mbs/95k iops while it's my OS drive. The p5800x gets like 9 mocro seconds of latency without an os hitting it as you're testing. Crazy impressed. Also the fact that i still get the power loss capacitors which are pretty much tiny batteries to save your data when the powe cuts is great for what is $50.
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
@@be-kind00 It's nearly twice as fast in every single way. In random read performance it actually significantly beats even that much more expensive 900p drive that doesn't even come in m.2 either.
@kelownatechkid9 ай бұрын
the 100 & 118gb optanes are perfect for boot disks imo. The 1.5tb models are great too, for ceph. I also use optane for my plex server, as it is great for being constantly hit with transcoding caches, for many tiny reads/writes for images, and for sqlite!
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
@SC-hk6ui Just did and it cut about 40% off my boot times coming from a wd sn850x (one of the best nvme drives out). Crazy good. You also get enterprise power loss protection, data accuracy and mtbf which even some of the more expensive optane drives like the 905p do not. The main thing tho was getting so close to the qd1 random read performance of the multiple thousand dollar big brother (p5800x). 370MB/s I get while the p5800x gets just over 400MB/s. I never hoped it'd be that close, at that price difference.
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
@@SC-hk6ui Actually funny you say that because I literally just did that and am now getting 420 MB/s read! This is a gem of a drive jesus christ. Writes improved sloghtly more too which ill take. A bit unfortunate logically with how littlethroughput the 1600x really takes up compared to the WD but I've got 8 chipset lanes anyway so my 850x will be fine.
@marcelovidal40235 ай бұрын
I have one of these 900P 280gb as boot drive on windows 11 some games i put on it! I have too a solidgm p44 pro 1tb tested on my system... Optane make the system faster, Down the DPC a LOT and I don't destroy the other nands on my system over time. Who got this optanes about 85us be happy.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
Hey, I am building a PC based on P44 Pro 1TB, does the Optane truly outperform Solidigm?! I find it hard to believe and is it large enough to have all Windows files and programs on it?!
@marcelovidal40233 ай бұрын
@@AudiS4orce1 With large files the optane handly better... Sytem way snappier with optane. If you find one cheap try IT
@derrikarenal33084 ай бұрын
I'm loving that SUN hardware!
@LubomirGeorgiev Жыл бұрын
Once again very informative
@I-PixALbI4-IАй бұрын
I wanna Optane drive.. just because it's cooool)
@honahwikeepa211511 ай бұрын
I have an old H10 256+16 Intel Optane in my Dell 15 P85F Inspiron. It boots real fast. Thank for the fresh information. Cheers from Sydney Australia 🦘
@tendosingh5682 Жыл бұрын
Exactly what I was considering!
@FunWithBits2 ай бұрын
Price keeps dropping (I guess as expected) The 905p 1.5 TB is $300 on New Egg.
@vasiovasioАй бұрын
Great video! Thank you!
@whyjay99599 ай бұрын
Maybe one of the other new memory types will take its place. CXL might also provide more uses for something between flash and DRAM in performance.
@mbe102 Жыл бұрын
I literally just bought two 280gb optane drives. My hope is to use them as cache for read and write in unraid (maybe truenas I dunno yet)
@aliancemd Жыл бұрын
I've got one of these for a dev machine years ago because it performs great under the small files 70% Random-Read/30% Random-Write use-case and have amazing write endurance but even for this use-case it's overkill, NAND performs basically the same these days for a significantly smaller price. The price starts to make sense when these are used on servers that get hit 24/7 - for any other use-case, NAND basically offers the same performance.
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
No it doesn't and even in the few game load times I've seen, the difference between a p5800x and something like a 990 pro is bigger than a 990 pro to a 860 evo (a 2018 sata ssd). Latency trumps all. In boot times it's even bigger difference and I've never even seen a boot test on a p5800x either (there's a few with the 905p tho) . Ofc the p5800x is absurdly expensive but no absurdly expensive cpu or gpu above the 14900k/7800x3d /4090 will be faster at all and usually slower for most people unlike this. Even old people could easily notice the boot time difference at least from the tests I've seen.
@scottylans6 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video!
@davideriksen24347 ай бұрын
Why does this guy look like a actual wizard
@xxgg6 ай бұрын
Great content.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
What about using it as NAS cache? or as boot drive? would it do better than NAND flash?
@ElectronicsWizardry3 ай бұрын
This really depends on the cache type. These drives excel in workloads like a ZFS log drive as they have very fast sync writes and high endurance. But in some caching applications, a larger slower drive may be better as it allows more data to be in the cache. I have seen people using the small drives(16 and 32) for server boot drives as there very cheap on places like eBay and often more than enough storage for a lightweight OS. The extra performance may be nice for some boot drives and Ive heard they feel a bit snappier as a Windows boot drive, but I didn't notice a difference personally in Windows 11 using a 900p compared to a NAND NVMe SSD.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardryIt’s for my Synology. I can have 2 SSDs to either act as read-only or read/write and if the latter it must be in RAID-1 setup. Many avoids R/W setup due to risk of power fail but optane has power loss protection unlike most other NAND SSDs on the market. I’m thinking either 58 or 118gb Optane.
@ElectronicsWizardry3 ай бұрын
@AudiS4orce1 I don’t know what Synopogy uses under the hood but it might make sense going optane for the write caching mode. For a read cache a bigger band drive is probably a better bet. I also have tried a good amount of ssd caching in nas uses with often failed small benefits so don’t expect a huge jump for most workloads.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardryThanks. So on the same token optane wouldn’t be necessarily great for a desktop boot drive on AMD machine. Right? A fast NAND SSD with 1Tb data should outperform it. No?
@ElectronicsWizardry3 ай бұрын
@AudiS4orce1 optane would probably be a faster boot drive and a bit snappier. I tried this on my personal desktop with a 12900k and otherwise high end parts and didn’t notice a major difference. If you want the snappiest system it might be worth the try but don’t expect a huge jump. NAND ssds have gotten better since optane has died, but the peak advertised sequential speeds often don’t matter and optane is still much better in terms of latency.
@jeffnew12137 ай бұрын
I keep thinking about adding Optane DIMMs to my Dell PowerEdge R740, but the complexity of what DIMMs you need installed where in order for the Optane DIMMs to work is confusing! Any experience with Optane DIMMs?
@ElectronicsWizardry7 ай бұрын
I’ve never played with optane dims but they seem like a cool product to test. Unfortunately intel seems to have killed the product and current used pricing isn’t that much cheaper than dram currently.
@TalmidAndy2 ай бұрын
These were never meant to be used as boot drives all storage drives. They are a cashe drive meant to be used with Intel's RST to load most commonly used data at the highest possible speed - This is why they are okay as a swap drive but again not what they are designed for. When used as intended on a compatible system they do not make enough of a performance difference to justify the cost unless you have a very specific use case. The new generation of combined SSD and optane memory devices, such as H10 and H20, are a little better but unless you have an 11th gen Intel CPU and Windows OS they are not worth the aggravation to get running in any useful manner.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
I can get a 480gb Optane P900 for $150. Is it worth it as Boot drive compared to Samsung 990 pro?
@ElectronicsWizardry3 ай бұрын
I personally didn’t notice the boot drive speed difference but it will likely be a bit faster as a boot drive than a 990 pro or almost any nand drive. If it’s worth it is up to you but I wouldn’t say it was worth it from my experience using my 280gb drive as a boot drive on windows 11.
@AudiS4orce13 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardry Yeah, I assume launching programs and other things will be snappier due to higher random reads, but not sure if noticeable. The other thing is massive TBW, so wouldn't have to worry about wearing it out ever!
@kopiulo11 ай бұрын
As a game developer i'm gonna install a 512 optane unit with 32gb cache, hope it goes well
@declanmcardle Жыл бұрын
Do you have the 905P 960GB $399 newegg in this video?
@ElectronicsWizardry Жыл бұрын
I got my 280gb optane 900p as part of a combo deal with a 12900k on amazon. I have seen lots of similar deals out there recently.
@loununez1311 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardryhello there, I own a hitachi DW-F800-DB60C JBOD and having problems connecting to my pc, using mellanox card, any way you can help, hitachi is not particularly helping.
@CYYB3RMISTER8 ай бұрын
Hey dude, will 2x 16gb m10 ssds be good enough for a proxmox boot drive?
@ElectronicsWizardry8 ай бұрын
I have a Proxmox system booting from dual 16GB Optane drives currently without issue. If you can get them cheap and have the m.2 slots they make a good amount of sense, otherwise I'd get a 256GB Nand drive for the extra space.
@CYYB3RMISTER8 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardry My intentions is to mirror them and set them up as my boot drive and use a mirrored pair of Intel S3700/S3710 400gb ssds for my data. I found a source in China selling new drives for $5 a pcs and an American seller selling used S3700 400gb for $13 a pcs. Do you think 400gb will be enough to host all my networking (2x opnsense, 2x piholes, nginx and wireguard) datasets/bases, password manager and a authentication service like authentik or authelia? Due to my MB selection, the modified Supermicro X10SLH motherboard you recently reviewed on your channel, I wont have on board nvme slots so i will be forced to use m.2 to 2.5" sata adapters.
@ElectronicsWizardry8 ай бұрын
@CYYB3RMISTER those pieces for the drives seem pretty good to me. I’d guess 400gb will be fine for those services, but it might be close. I’d try to use containers and thin provisioning to save space. As far as that board goes I don’t think it supports nvme boot and won’t show nvme drives in the boot order. I couldn’t find a newer bios for it publicly that added nvme support. I’d probably boot off data ssds to make it simpler and avoid the nvme support issues here.
@CYYB3RMISTER8 ай бұрын
@@ElectronicsWizardry If I needed more space, can I convert a z1 array to a z10 array to accommodate 2 more drives within the gui? The ebay seller I bought my mobo combo from has a copy of the modified bios that supports nvme, but I don't know if it supports nvme boot as well. He didnt flash the bios but he did say he was using a bifurcated card but I never asked if he was booting from it as well
@ElectronicsWizardry8 ай бұрын
@CYYB3RMISTER if the bios supports nvme it probably means nvme boot. Nvme as storage drives should work on any board with pcie support. For adapters anything should work. I’ve bout a few cheap ones without issues. I don’t think the gui lets you expand from a mirror to multiple striped mirrors but you can do it in the terminal.
@declanmcardle Жыл бұрын
@3:00 umm, if you want Optane to be System RAM, you need Optane Persistent memory...
@shephusted2714 Жыл бұрын
they totally rock but they are still overpriced - you can and should just stick to nvme which is plenty good and much cheaper and bigger, push your upgrades to better networking and try to get symmetrical fiber - these will have much bigger impacts on your smb/homelab. over provisoning memory and using ram drives may b a good option
@Frozoken8 ай бұрын
Band you mean not nvme. All optanes are nvme.
@Nikiboo32Ай бұрын
yoooo what the fuck why is elrond tryin to sell me optane
@cqwickedwake7651 Жыл бұрын
Bro just shave your head at this point xĐ nice review btw ty
@ericneo2 Жыл бұрын
It's the curse of Linux, makes your hair go grey and fallout before your time. 😭
@AdrianuX1985 Жыл бұрын
@@ericneo2ROTFL.
@4dchessplayer516 Жыл бұрын
Thin very thin.....retreating.......way back and to the side.......I am talking about your hair. Get it cut man, that is bad