Teutons vs Poles! Ultimate Arena Showdown?

Teutons have a ton of bonuses that make them strong on arena, but there's a new kid in town with crazy bonuses too! The Poles are proving to be insanely strong in many situations, in this 1v1 we see the two civs clash amongst two very good arena players.
Shorts Channel ➤ / @t90shorts59
Livestream ➤ fb.gg/T90Official
Discord ➤ / discord
Merch ➤ teespring.com/...
Patreon ➤ / t90official
Twitter ➤ / t90official
Facebook ➤ / t90official
Donate ➤ bit.ly/2z4T4rm
This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires, © Microsoft Corporation.

[@CraneTiger2]

For the past 20 years, I never understood why the starting walls were not connected at the corners. Bizarre.

[@johnsmithe4656]

So you can extend them.

[@CptManboobs]

18 mins in T90 comes to the conclusion that he would rather have his bones crushed rather than get stabbed. This is actually top quality comedy.

[@aa-ron.]

Given that the poles invented the sh*t powered fan, it only makes sense for the farms to have fantastic windmills in the game…

[@SIGNOR-G]

They invented WHAT?!

[@ukaszolszak1983]

T90 Przywileje (read or maybe don't even try ;) Szlachty (read shlahta/y) - Nobles/Gentry Privileges , Lechitic (read lehitik), Obuch (read obuh) - blunt weapon. ch=h :) But both ends were equally deadly when the blunt weapon was in the hands of a strong man. Nice content as always. Thanks.

[@Neon-Lines]

if Obuch becomes more expensive, Poles' only left cost-efficient counter to strong Heavy Cavalry in imp would be Pikemen

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

Maybe give the Obuch some extra bonus damage vs. Heavy Cav to compensate.

[@Neon-Lines]

@@thepersonwhocomentz like the Berserk? would certainly help them in the late game

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

Just use your own cheap cav

[@sebastianpobletecarvalho5081]

I have a question, why does everyone delete the back walls right away? considerong how often the front wall is briched, is it to crazy to atempt to build mills or at least lumber camps to protect your villagers?

[@byali4360]

Teutons vs Poles, pretty much historical scenario. Add Lithuanians and it's perfect.

[@darkranger116]

I ranted about Sicilians and the historical usage of their unique techs. Even the serjeant, its good and all, but it hardly stands out. Sicily really does feel like the one that was worked on the least, Sicily just doesnt really feel like it has an identity. Like the Serjeant is the perfect example. Mechanics wise? Serviceable certainly, its a unit that can build towers that make more of themselves. But stat wise? Its just a anti-champ stick. I hardly ever used them all that much until i made a mod that changed the civ around.

[@steelfoam2518]

Would be cool to make civs more unique, even through nerfs like was the case with vikings. Burmese for example would be real fun if there a way to use all three: infantry, elephants and arambai. Giving +5 to non-elephant cav is just boring, while what they needed was some blacksmith bonus that supports going for a combination of units.

[@soft_7019]

I can't believe this game depicts Polish soldier as holding big hammers the wrong way. Very offensive.

[@CornBredCrusader]

T90 in most videos: we're gonna add in a pop up or graphic here to link to what I'm talking about Hardy: That's gonna be a no from me dawg

[@4Hardy]

t90 has no power here 😈 (unless he remembers that he mentioned something like that in the video and tells me about it, then he has the power to make me do it)

[@garrettwilkey684]

Both civs are awesome!!!

[@angriboi]

Teutons are garbage.

[@josepetersen7112]

Gotta be honest, between Lithuanians and now Poles, I am tired of anti-ETK units, haha.

[@MerdaPura]

darknoob didnt get crop rotation and the eco was still crazy

[@juakofz]

Poles have too many options. Obuch are too cheap/quick to create/effective, and they even get fully upgraded arbs besides everything we saw here 11

[@IschmarVI]

not quite fully, they don't get the last armor upgrade, but yeah - they have pretty decent arbs for sure. -but hey, teuton skirmishers get the last armor upgrade so they are not quite as bad as they are often sold for so there's that 11-

[@Khotgor]

Yet to see you do videos of you criticizing the Sicilians. Would definitely watch if you do

[@weopkasdkopasdpkasdkl8065]

Generally the hook on something like that is to go through the armor and be more of a piercing type damage where as the flat of the hammer is more of a crushing damage so causing broken bones and internal damage. So against armor both are viable IMO. It kind of combines a warpick with a mace and giving it the reach and the weight of a two handed weapon so more overall power per swing with the trade off of it being heavier so the soldier getting tired faster.

[@yum33333]

Watching D3rp constantly onager his own units was really painful.

[@CraneTiger2]

God wills it lol

[@TheAmazingDom]

Killed more Teutonic Knights than his opponent did

[@Saw321lol]

-Some- Many of you may die, but that is a sacrifice he is willing to make!

[@johnsmithe4656]

And that is why I don't make mangonels / onagers.

[@MrTerapak]

na his onager hits were fine he hit way more obuchs than his own units, they were worth it

[@dakshjoshi9918]

Thats y i hate tuetons if u r unable to end the game ASAP u can't stand in long run cuz eventually gold will gonna run out and tueton's trash units are not good

[@johnsmithe4656]

Also horses run circles around them. Mobility matters.

[@destruction8946]

the obuch ability to remove armor should be a charge attack.

[@Richiter90abc]

Srach (Sracz) (16:23) in the stream...in Polish means "shiter, loo" and Sraczka means "diarrhea". But nice try... "Szlachta" (nobility) you would say something like "Shlahhta".

[@MaxResDefault2600]

For the balance videos, maybe do them together with spirit of the law.

[@snollyapp]

Devs should nurf polish eco by making their farms one tile larger.

[@OprichnikStyle]

if t90 would have armour and chose to get hit with the flat end, he would have gotten immense internal bleeding and broken bones lol. Instead pointy end could have easly slip off

[@MakerDavid]

I don't quite understand how the Aubuchs work, does the attack negate armor or does it mean with each attack the enemies armor is reduced?

[@ZMCFERON]

Each hit grants -1/-1 armor iirc to a minimum of 0 until the unit is healed by a monk or garrison

[@MakerDavid]

@@ZMCFERON Thanks!

[@davidpereira5969]

@@ZMCFERON healed to max health btw, if its just partialy healed the armor does not get restored

[@TheTWH9]

broooooo don't get my obuchs nerfed hahaha

[@shiryu22]

2tons!

[@ORy652]

Szlachta can be pronounced as Shlakhta

[@WackyConundrum]

Incorrect. "ch" is pronounced as "h" as in "hammer". There is no "k" sound at all.

[@ORy652]

@@WackyConundrum in Polish ch is pronounced as ch (not h), but the English cannot say ch, so I tried to be as close as possible with english. But if you don't take my wrd for it just go to google trasnlate, choose polish language, type obuch and use the LISTEN TO button :)

[@aratwhoisaprivate2109]

Epic

[@XTheLolX301]

I hate the obuch passive

[@1987retroman]

"SHLAKTA"

[@WackyConundrum]

Nope, no "k" sound.

[@1987retroman]

@@WackyConundrum I lived in Poland for a year and my neighbor's last name was Szlachta. Maybe that isn't the official pronunciation, but that's how people actually say the word.

[@Southeast_Asian_Devil]

D3rp must have hated those 5 bombards

[@_mega_fish_8774]

Insane Thumnail

[@ssu123]

the hammer end is for bashing armored units while the sharp or pointed end is to attack gaps in armor.

[@manbearpig3507]

can see y t90 is confused the hammer looks overly clunky n blunt in reality it would be a smaller/thinner spike with very sharp tip

[@Hopcroft221]

No, not exactly, it is all about pressure. If you swing a flat vs pointy end, latter will have dozen times less area, thus dozen times higher pressure, which results in going straight through metal plates of armor. Imagine putting a nail into board. The bigger the nail, more force you need for it to go through.

[@davidpereira5969]

@@Hopcroft221 yeah, the advantage of flat end may be to push your oponents, but in a combat scenario, why not just stab them?

[@phoqueoeuf]

@@davidpereira5969 Have you ever tried to pull a nail out of wood? Same reason, blunt force trauma is sometimes if not more effective at incapacitating. Pointy end more likely to get stuck in amour, blunt end breaks bones and caves skulls in.

[@davidpereira5969]

@@phoqueoeuf if you hit it with blunt end, it may hurt a little bit but with the armor it wont do much, maybe damage the armor but thats it, you wont pass through the armor. If you hit with the sharp end, it will most likely pass the armor and hurt the oponent, maybe make a wound if you hit hard enough. Sure, you could go for the head with the flat end, but you have to lift it in order to hit the head, and then the strike wont be so strong. In conclusion, use both (And yes, i have pulled nails with hammers before, its quite fun actualy)

[@JohnSmith-tk7nt]

The problem with nerfing Obuch is that's the only counter Poles have to Heavy Cavalry. I think if you change them too much you have to give Poles the Halberdier technology

[@henryjesionowski5600]

I wouldn't mind giving Poles halbs

[@MadnessTW]

Poles are probably fine in that matchup since they can just make 50% more Knights for the same total res and they can do it much longer. Their weaknesses are the early game on open maps and ranged units in general. I'd be far more concerned with their inability to deal with Arbs, personally. Also, it's not like a nerf would render them useless anyway. They just need to be less of a no-brainer to go for.

[@davidpereira5969]

A small anti cav bonus could help, like +1 or +2 damage to compensate. But agree, poles arent that good vs heavy cav and obuch are weak to siege and ranged units so its not like they are uncounterable op

[@KnightBanditDayz]

nah. they have more gold and great food eco and can knight spam..... they should not even have a cheap inv uu. they are a cav civ. i think they should get the last arm upgrade for cav. the uu should be nerfed

[@JohnSmith-tk7nt]

@@KnightBanditDayz You clearly haven't played the civ, try defending against Paladin or Elephants with no Halberdier no camels and no infantry unique unit. Your suggestion is silly

[@johnsmithe4656]

This is my kinda game! I always play as Lithuanians and in arena I stay behind my walls (except for brave monks taking relics) until well after Imp, at which point I rush out with a hundred hussars. I take down castles with nothing but wave after wave of hussars. Seems to me that once I reach ~90 farms and 20 stables the only good counter is to spam halbs in similar proportions. I throw my hussars at walls, walls of castles, balls of halbs, etc. I don't care. My men are expendable. My KD is god-awful but it is super fun to play this way. It starts slow. I don't kill the enemy army initially. It takes a few waves. They must think they are doing just fine after taking down the first wave. But then the second is right behind it.... and another after that. And that's when they realize they just can't keep up with the pace. If I need extra oomph at some point I switch to paladins. I start with the trash to hoard all the gold I can, then use that as my enemy starts running out of his. You might crush me if you rush me before Imp, but if you let me be long enough I will create an unending train of invading screaming horses.

[@Neon-Lines]

Darknoob had more gold from relics and this could only happen on Arena, on any other map you will get raided once and suddenly are without an eco bonus

[@phantom_dreamer]

Feels like Derp had to focus significantly more than Darknoob to perform in that game Cheap disposable units make things much easier, especially when they are so good

[@Koellenburg]

this was very entertaining...and on edge ... like a football match :D

[@MrARock001]

A unit that shreds armour opens up a world of possibility for future special abilities. It's all on the table. Poison archer: a ranged unit that reduces a target's movement and firing speed? A ranged unit that increases a target's susceptibility to conversion? Spiked armour: A unit that reduces an attacker's melee attack when taking damage?

[@MadnessTW]

I like your thinking. More creative bonuses would be neat.

[@blacktiger1517]

We are already have all this it's called DOTA and league of legends.

[@phoqueoeuf]

I’m sorry but they really don’t have a place in age2, next it’ll be buildable spike pits and terrain

[@MrARock001]

@@phoqueoeuf terrain speed effects would be neat though! Imagine if walking through shallows slowed down your troops, or if camels could outrun horses in sand? It would make strategizing based on terrain a dimension of gameplay.

[@phoqueoeuf]

@@MrARock001 yeah, but if I wanted that I’d play DnD or 40k? I don’t think it’s very fitting with AoE2 personally 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@ValerietheLovelyDeadlyItalian]

this one was absolute FIRE!

[@loganlenart783]

Yes, Bring us discussion videos about balancing ideas and addressing problems! Also we love rants.

[@124085]

^^^ This

[@kazem766]

Wouldnt HCs be more effective than teching into SO?

[@KnightBanditDayz]

Ya poles are vary good at attrition wars. Reminds me of the goths. Early game risk with late game spam war you lose.

[@davidpereira5969]

Teutonic chads vs hammer bois, will be fun

[@gwensgaming]

I'd really like to see Ironclad buffed, it doesn't achieve its purpose in keeping siege alive. Derp had really good control of his halbs to protect them, and ironclad, and it just doesn't matter. Teutons need their siege to fight mobile/ranged civs but with how fragile it is you never get the investment back. I think Derp would have been better going HC but that means he dies to Arbs :/

[@davidpereira5969]

Yeah ironclad feels really underwhelming, celts and especialy mongols have much better siege unique techs, and halbs arent enough vs ranged units or these swarms of trample damage cav

[@dirkauditore8413]

I think going Siege onager as a whole was a mistake, while the attack grounds on the Obuchs were good, he just lost way too much gold from his siege onagers getting sniped over and over and over, not to mention the cost of the tech itself. Idk why he didnt just go full TK + siege rams. For anyone who thinks Obuchs deal with armored units, they still lose hard to TK's. Their armor debuffing ability does not strip TK's of their armor fast enough to beat them. Derp just had way too few TK's, thats why they couldn't do too much vs the Obuchs.

[@TheBikeOnTheMoon]

teuton isn't exactly great in trash war. They should have had at least light cav upgrade really and I don't understand why pole have siege engineer, they should have never had it in the first place.

[@percelomalsda]

There is something about this civ match... I am not sure what.

[@Neon-Lines]

maybe it's epic history

[@MaDmanx6666]

1410 Grunwald

[@iamrapidrocket]

Nah, Turks and Bohemians are top

[@TheDunestyler]

can confirm: best combo is actually Poles and Teutons. they cover most of each other's weaknesses. and can reliably play to their strengths when teamed up.

[@GunsAndRoses871]

Hindustanis+Bohemians(Camels+houfnice and Hand cannoneers) Khmer+Celts (Scorpions+Ballista elephants) Mongols+Vietnamese(Mangudai/Hussars +Rattan and Elephants) Britons+celts(Long bows+SM) Spanish+Portuguese(Ultimate Gunpowder+Hussar spam)

[@19Buster90]

Sriracha privileges is funny xDDD Greets from Poland. The "Szlachta" you can try to pronounce Schlackta

[@WackyConundrum]

We do not say "k" (or "ck") for "ch" in Polish. Instead, we say "h" as in "hammer".

[@mateusz73]

1410 intensifies?

[@Neon-Lines]

for real

[@georgeprchal3924]

Viper wouldn't have let this happen.

[@shino4242]

What a good game. I love seeing post imperial armies clashing at high level. My least favorite higher elo games are the ones where everything is almost pure harrassing and raiding with maybe 1 good fight, maybe, then the games over because the losing side, being such a good player, knows fighting back isn't worth it and calls GG to get to the next game. And somtimes this even happens in castle or even feudal age and we don't even see IMP. Then in LEL the army management, army comps, and siege capabilities are so wonky. Assuming they even have the eco to field a legit army in the first place. But this? This was gorgeous. This was 2 players doing a decent job of playing their civs strengths. It was a battle of quantity vs quality. It became very apparent during the castle wars in the middle of the map that whether derp won or lost, he was gonna have the superior K/D.It was great seeing all those onager shots wiping out wave after wave of enemy cavalry. Derps attack grounds were, as you said, tasty. DN on the other hand was so RELENTLESS and was just not giving Derp a chance to breath. He was also the superior pusher. Every castle lost by Derp was just heart breaking (as someone rooting for the capey boiz) cuz you know he was already having enough trouble just holding his ground, let alone moving forward. Every step back was going to be ground lost basically forever. Ahh, it was such a good game.

[@MichaelBlanchardII]

So are teutons just shit these days? I have yet to see a streamed t90 game where the teutons win. Especially against the more recent civs.

[@MrTerapak]

teutons were never that good , still pretty good on closed maps

[@MrDizuki]

You should make a video with SotL on changes you would make to certain civs. If the master of math backs you up no one can argue :P

[@BahaAta]

nice naration as usual. but you need to be fix yourself as urge to be stage. i hope you get what I mean. we getting older... wiser though some of rookie stages must live in it. you preserve some of them though some of most interested decaying. Just as a friend.. never met... but you are one of the most watched caster for me.... that's my opinion. nice to watch this game.

[@ivanstrydom8417]

Polska stronk!!

[@ROHIT-kx4kz]

The new civs like Poles & Lithuanians have a lot of advantages unlike classical civs like Teutons, Franks, Goths, Britons etc.

[@david_oliveira71]

Lithuanians aren't new, not recently at least; only Poles, Bohemians, Burgundians and Sicilians, fyi

[@ThePedrodude]

@@david_oliveira71 Lithuanians are still very new to the game. Less than 2 and a half years old. Joint 5th youngest civ.

[@david_oliveira71]

@@ThePedrodude Yes, you're right, just meant to inform him and express what I know. Thanks

[@lukapaka]

I expected Darknoob to evaporate his villagers and triple his army size xD

[@noahstickel7269]

So dark never getting the final farm upgrade has made me wonder if its actually better to not get it with the poles; faster time between reseeds means the big dump of food more often.

[@IschmarVI]

crop rotation gives you a bigger dump of food instead. In the long run, it doesn't make a difference, it just slightly affects the timing when those bumps occur. The reason why it is better for the poles than for other civs though is that, after researching it, the next time you reseed your farms, it gives you a larger bump so it pays off more quickly.

[@pwn3dname]

remember that the final farm upgrade also saves you a bunch of wood long-term. Dark was having wood supply issues in the final 20 minutes or so and that upgrade would've helped him with that.

[@davidpereira5969]

The farms upgrades act as wood saving upgrades in the long term. Looking back its easy to say he should have gotten it in early imp, but usualy its not worth since it takes a lot of time to pay off and costs gold

[@pwn3dname]

since when do the farm upgrades cost gold? AFAIK it's just food and wood. And while it's true that it takes a long while for crop rotation to pay off, that time is reduced for Poles and, also, they're a civ that excels in long games in Arena (like this one) because they can stretch their gold so far.

[@kkadz]

17:14 it's for pulling dudes off of horses and punctures plate

[@Augustus_Imperator]

I will never understand why darknoob didn't go for ranged when he switched to hussars

[@ivoivic2448]

derp threw the game when he started throwing away siege. those solo bombards were so painful to watch. not to mention that instead of the constant misses on infantry, he could'v just set them to attack buildings.

[@lincegris7679]

Answer to the obuch question: you make a bigger preasure if the contact area is tinier. So when you hit an armour you want to make all the preasure in a little point. So the obuch hits with the tiny side

[@WackyConundrum]

Grunwald, 1410. Colorized.

[@CienCarasWC3]

I think the Poles having BBC is a little too much, maybe that's the bit that needs to be removed in terms of nerfing them.

[@Crazy_ol_Ben]

If he paired archers and skirms with the obouch instead of hussars this game would've lasted have as long

[@aquasquid36]

5:30 day 219 of T90 saying he is meaning to make a video about something but never will

[@mt198989]

I think Poles should just open Arb Bbc really fast and teutons will struggle

[@roachtheable]

What an absolutely amazing game. Also one of the coolest civ matchups!

[@PriyanshuNath]

Hello T90! I want to download the game. Do you have an affiliate link?

[@madsadrecords61]

or get ride of poland bombard canaon they have so many options to make them seem fair

[@fmgroupberingen]

Why is AFE so slow after the major update last time in de DE?

[@dylan522p]

T90 says to check description, and of course, it's not there

[@Loniak98]

Poles are very weak late game, they need the last cavalry armor upgrade!

[@mysteriousshadow395]

Yeah maybe HC for the teuton player

[@randywilson5200]

I would have been so mad if I was red, ugh I was so pissed lol

[@anthonystarke893]

Donjons and Serjeants do need to be buffed for Sicilians.

[@mysteriousshadow395]

Where's the lith vs poles video?

[@garnauklaufen6704]

Can you put relic monks into siege towers?

[@machete660]

I’ve gone on many rants about the poles

[@DerPlusquamperfekt]

5:18 t90 becomes a png tuber

[@giuseppepisano7398]

micro by darknoob is sooooo lousy

[@indraallian6371]

Since when is 45 minutes a very long game in AOE?

[@mayomonkey420]

it's on the long end for pro games

[@chrisrochholz737]

You've come far. Good for you

[@mouton-jk9xm]

why did no one go crossbows?

[@madsadrecords61]

Obuch nerf give poland halbs ez

[@thebakermaker1500]

They hit with the pointy end when you have chainmail armor but use the flat end when you get plate armor

[@ironie5319]

that was a great battle

[@stevemtownjr]

Yes to stat/meta videos

[@dirkauditore8413]

I think going Siege onager as a whole was a mistake, while the attack grounds on the Obuchs were good, he just lost way too much gold from his siege onagers getting sniped over and over and over, not to mention the cost of the tech itself. Idk why he didnt just go full TK + siege rams. For anyone who thinks Obuchs beat TK'S, its quite the opposite. TK's DOMINATE Obuchs. Their armor debuffing ability does not strip TK's of their armor fast enough to beat them. Derp just had way too few TK's, thats why they couldn't do too much vs the Obuchs.

[@XyntXII]

I don't think that halb SO is terrible for poles. We saw that game what bbc do to SO and I like the arb addition for poles, but obuch also deal with halbs perfectly fine. obuch also strengthen any ranged unit so even skirms become reasonable in addition to their attack bonus vs halbs. IMO the polish eco gives them a bigger tempo boost than teuton eco and opening compositions are cheaper, so unless teutons carry some tempo out of their monk resistance advantage in early castle I don't think poles struggle with the matchup.

[@themacattack671]

I think if you were to make the obuch more expensive you'd need to get something back. I think that giving them the final cav armor would be too much, but maybe give them halb. Poles get kindof shit on by strong cav civs if they cant make obuch in the late game. pikes just arnt good enough v fully upgraded hussar to be a hard counter.

[@locutusdiborg88]

poles are broken !

[@korinogaro]

16:18 this word you mamed without mercy... you read it "shlahta". BTW 2nd 'h' is voiced but not harsh like in arabic languages. 17:16 it depends on your taget. You would use spiked side against armored enemy to puncture it, and flat part of the head against light enemies to crush.

[@nichtda4522]

To T90 suggesting handcannons: Winged hussars have bonus damage against gunpowder units, so that could have been iffy. They won't trade that cost effective

[@TECHN01200]

T90, I suggest you watch Shadiversity's video on the bec de corbin as it is the closest weapon the the obuch that I can think of and both ends are meant to be lethal.

[@TheDymajo]

Zaszlachtowane