[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Huo-Long Heater

Go to www.expressvpn.com/fsoas and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free.
Have you ever looked at a weapon and wondered "How am I even supposed to use this piece of shit?" Don't worry. I'm here now.
Happy Chinese/Lunar New Year. Pretend I planned for this video's release to coincide with that. It would be better if it was the year of the dragon but I'm not waiting that long.
Rebalance Servers: badweaponrehab.tf/
Twitter: / fsoas_
Patreon: / fishstickonastick
Main Channel: / @fishstickonastick
Discord - / discord
Music used:
Donkey Kong Country - Simian Segue
TF2 OST - Seduce Me
TF2 OST - Magnum Force
Sly 3 OST - Basically all the China section music
Oahu Beach Stroll - • Oahu Beach Stroll - n...
Clips used: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows 2
1984 (1984)
The Simpsons

[@fishstickonastick-gaming]

Go to www.expressvpn.com/fsoas and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free.

[@theeagleunion2949]

My social credit score will pummel if I use it

[@dragonlord4898]

Promotion Skip Button: 2:16

[@SporianSummit]

expressvpn is trash

[@firesniperbullet2]

what servers do u play on with costom maps

[@brbdogking7643]

I don’t really care if my data is sold but it’s just very stupid how they go about it. KZbin “here is a 3 hour long ad talking about how this medicine works, you are totally going to watch the whole thing because you want this product and want to support the channel you are watching” I will literally hit “stop seeing this ad of 5 minute ads, you have 5 seconds to hook me, anymore and the ad works against you because I will be more likely to NOT buy your annoying product.

[@mr.tatortot6469]

This thing was actually really good when jungle inferno first came as everyone was on fire

[@QualityDoggo]

Occasionally in casual I still find a round where everyone is on fire lol

[@whoisanarnb]

And so are you

[@TheOneWhoHasABadName]

you can still have this scenario just find someone on your team to play scorch shot pyro, and everyone on the other team will cry in pain and fear this message is sponsored by Hell (TM)

[@drcrow9664]

The day when Spy became an endangered species

[@seokkyunhong8812]

It's as if scorch shot is a fine weapon.

[@angelindenile]

The Huo-Long Heater is a good example as to why we need a heavy update.

[@ayyteen]

At this point, any update is fine lol Heavy update’s the dream though, wish we had it

[@mertsoup9113]

Anti bot update first tho

[@Joe-um7sx]

@@mertsoup9113 lmao if we get an update itll be like what rockstar did for online. "hey we know there's godmode hackers and people who crash your game but here's franklin"

[@complain9269]

Personally the Natasha is a better example, but the Huo-Long is a distant 2nd.

[@engineergaming5989]

Technically all of heavy's weapons need some kind of buff

[@xavibun]

I remember hearing that this weapon was originally made to be a firecracker launcher but Valve said no.

[@idioticed4379]

Prob too op or too hard to implement

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@idioticed4379 too hard to implement? surely it'd just be a fast Grenade Launcher (a la 100x gamemode) or an explode-on-hit Syringe Gun?

[@Spanishdog17]

They had a back up dragon head flamethrower in case the Huo Long model was released on time.

[@raven75257]

@@caramelldansen2204 you underestimate source spaghetti code

[@Starpotion]

A minigun with splash damage would be a fun concept

[@Dingus_Khaan]

The main thing I think the Heater needs is a decreased movement speed penalty while spun up, letting Heavy move around at 50% forward movement speed at the very least, as opposed to the 37% speed of every other minigun sans the Beast. It's ideally supposed to be Heavy's most aggressive primary, so it should be made easier to move around in order to get closer to enemies to take advantage of the ring of fire, avoid getting hit to offset the higher visibility, and pick up the ammo packs from dead enemies to offset the ammo consumption. It would also help cement it as the objective-taking weapon. Edit: Alternatively, a straight movement speed buff while deployed would work just as well. Either: A). a flat 15%-20% increase (to not make the GRU obsolete with it) Or B). A movement speed bonus proportional to ammo, capping at +30% (GRU speed) at full ammo and +0% when empty.

[@yazidefirenze]

Heavy's "IS GOOD TIME TO RUN" weapon

[@silverdededestruction2197]

Honestly it could work. I imagine that the buff works like this -When revved up, you grain a tremendous speed boost, you're actually more faster while revved compared to walking. -upon firing the Huo-Long, you lose the speed and will not be able to activate the speed boost for 5 seconds.

[@Dingus_Khaan]

@@silverdededestruction2197 Oooh I like that. Though to be honest I meant more of a decreased movement speed penalty. A minigun that lets the Heavy move _faster_ than un-revved would be better for a new weapon entirely.

[@Kyle_Reese]

Why cant i just make simple buffs to weapons rather than completely reworking a weapon like this guy

[@Funkin_Disher]

Given the single barrel rather than the rotating multiple barrels i could see it working as an alternative tomislav rather than an alternative minigun

[@Ofxzh]

The Heater teaches you the moments in gameplay where you don’t need to have the gun revved up. It's also good for when an enemy is trying to get around you, like it some of the clips where you find out that a player is a spy because he got caught in the flames like at 10:00

[@alex_zetsu]

Honestly, this is an underrated upside. With optimal play, the ammo consumption is a downside. However, I would much rather have a Heavy using the Minigun on my team who learned his habits through the Huo-Long Heater than through stock. Failing that, I'd rather have a heater Heavy since after dying the 7th time due to ammo consumption will be enough to break most players out of their "I don't know if there is an enemy, but I'm going to revv anyway" habit. I like to play with high mobility and while I recognize that no Heavy will keep up with Scout, Soldier, Demoman, or Pyro, I am able to work with my allies more when my patrol path intersects with them more often.

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@alex_zetsu very interesting👍

[@mememoristyt8992]

@@alex_zetsu based i rather used stock minigun than that abomination like the heater is a joke sure ambushing enemies is fun but the ammo consumption is too much

[@alex_zetsu]

@@mememoristyt8992 The ammo consumption is a downside if you're using the stock correctly. If you're walking around constantly revved when you don't need to, the Huo-Long Heater will teach you better habits. After a few deaths due to running empty of course.

[@sud1881]

⁠@@alex_zetsuI don’t get why I need to not rev up often tho, like heavy is literally at his strongest when he’s been reved up for a few seconds because he gets a damage and accuracy buff.

[@citcoin-official2681]

Revving up the Huo Long Heater: *Now all of China knows you're here.*

[@RoundBaguette]

Hilarious

[@cappow9732]

Welp time to watch out for all Huntsman snipers

[@irpsicologiayeducaciongrup8251]

*_Good._*

[@theeagleunion2949]

missing the Huo, -998 social credits

[@themphantom9138]

Dam it I wanted to say that!

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Best way to describe this weapon is not "bad" but rather "unnecessary." You aren't by any means crippled by using this gun but the Huo-Long Heater's unique perks really don't offer much benefit in exchange for that steep ammo cost. I'm sure a good player could still mop the floor with the other team with this gun, but they would be able to do the same with most other miniguns too.

[@kittymyths1208]

If it's not better than the other miniguns plus the atrocious ammo consumption then it IS bad AND unnecessary

[@destarker1340]

@@kittymyths1208 things that are better than everything makes the side grade obsolete and should not exist dude

[@thepeanut3126]

I find it good for spychecking in crowds, especially on payload.

[@my8thaccount236]

It should’ve just had incendiary ammunition with a damage penalty. You get afterburn DOT in exchange for flat damage. Done and done. A perfectly useable weapon, that fits it’s theme and is fun to use. No need for the ring of fire.

[@my8thaccount236]

@@thepeanut3126 I think that was the original idea for the heater. Spy protection in exchange for ammunition expenditure. Problem is only idiotic spies would even fall for it since it’s so telegraphed and they can just jump over. Even then the fire won’t kill them before they stab you, they’ll just be left vulnerable to your team, but a good spy is a slippery little bastard and will probably escape regardless.

[@faken6252]

The Dragon's Breath ammo is actually a genius idea. My own idea for a new gimmick is to give it a chargeable meter, like soldier's banners, when full you can press "R" to launch a firework rocket in the direction you are aiming. The rocket would deals splash and afterburn. But most importantly, giving Heavy detonator jump-like mobility on rare occassions, when he has earned it.

[@thetrophygamer3606]

That be cool. I say make it like his philogistanator rebalance idea in the phlog episode where there are mini charge meters where you can launch the rocket or when the meter is full you can get the fire bullets. Both are great

[@commitfelonyfeline]

give heavy the market gardener

[@mercwiththemouthsnewphone6798]

"Here i come cowards!"

[@riskinstinct2833]

If only, The certain company knows how to come up with the good update with their effort at best

[@Diesel-wh1th]

That could definitely work. Could have a direct hit-like projectile speed, and the fire damage (plus the fact heavy, unlike soldier, has zero resistances to rocket jump damage) from jumping could be enough of a risk that flying fat men wouldn't be a huge fear for engis and snipers. Combine that with an ACTUAL 25% damage bonus on burning players, and honestly might bring back some heavy mains (coming from one). Plus it'd be cool to see a glimpse of the firecracker launcher concept that had been originally envisioned

[@moritamikamikara3879]

"Being able to drop out of the sky like a fucking human Tunguska event" God, Fish I love you just for saying that sentence.

[@sheacorduroy5565]

Reminds me of that flying scout from the Fish Bites video lmfao.

[@COFFEEVIGOROUS]

Eceleb worship...

[@georgethakur]

@@COFFEEVIGOROUS What is this? -Guy says something funny -Guy thinks it was hilarious -Third guy says he's worshipping the first guy What?

[@chpsilva]

NGL I loved this idea of a ambush oriented weapon, it may not be effective to instantly kill lots of players but it would be enough to disband attack groups

[@TF2Scout..]

@@georgethakur perfect comment does not exist-

[@ThatGuyLachlan]

What I should think: the Huo Long is outperformed by Stock and Tomi in almost all situations, with an upside that is very minor and situational, and a downside that is only effectively offset by a single game mode. Probably best if I use something else What I actually think: this Minigun shoots fire! *Buys a strange professional kill streak version*

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

Boneitis.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

Well it sucks. That means the killstreaks are cheap, my favourite kind

[@Leo-wx2wv]

Chad move.

[@Joe-um7sx]

@@CAMSLAYER13 lmao my entire pro ks arsenal being called out

[@orjenOJ]

11 hours ago??

[@WTZWBlaze]

Hey, he actually DID get the pronunciation right*. For those curious, “huǒ” (火) means fire, and “lóng” (龙) means dragon. * Edit: Pretty close to right. Right enough that somebody with a base knowledge of Mandarin would recognize the words, but not to the point where someone more fluent couldn’t point out the flaws in the intricacies of his pronunciation.

[@davidhong1934]

He also called Winnie the Pooh by the name "Jee Jing Ping" when it should've been 维尼熊 I know what I did

[@WTZWBlaze]

@@davidhong1934 Nice nice, very nice.

[@pootzeketzi1233]

He didn't.

[@theweedeater1842]

@@pootzeketzi1233 chinese spewker here, yeah he pronounced it right my guy

[@pootzeketzi1233]

@@theweedeater1842 No he didn't, I speak it too.

[@Collisto2435]

The ring should act like a constant mini-airblast imo. Make the weapon actually work for it's intended purpose, keeping Spies away from you.

[@Funkin_Disher]

I thought that too, but the sheer amount of projectiles you could be continually thrbing away would be obscene

[@EdibleREAL]

Then it would be worse in mvm since heavy is at best with full ramp up

[@duncanchillake8024]

If i learned anything from getting 600 kills on a strange huo long heater, it's that the ring of fire isn't just to keep spies away It's to make you work like a pyro, any enemies who get too close to you for comfort will have to deal with afterburn, even if they killed you, including spies who try to cloak and run away Making the ring push enemies away would throw off your aim and let enemies escape

[@jonsku6662]

Personal suggestion for changes to the gun: - Change 10% damage penalty to be only against non-burning enemies (penalty and bonus' numbers can be adjusted a little) - Make the fire ring have a lightly longer reaching fire cone in front of the heavy (also reduce those visuals at least in front) - Fire activates just before the gun is fully revved up (to make use of that jump around corner tactic) - Extra wide fire blast if revving/revved up when landing from at certain minimum level of velocity (more than the drop from jumping from the lightest elevation), or/and scale radius based on said falling momentum

[@-aid4084]

@@KnightandDay33 bad mechanic, rage needs to last 8 seconds to be viable.

[@captainkiok881]

How about remove the -10% damage and just have the huo long heater do bonus 15% against burning targets and regular damage to non burning, and keep the ammo drain on rev. It's so pointless to have a base damage debuff on a weapon that has a damage buff in a certain situation, which actually reduces that other buff making it pointless, so just remove the debuff and make the buff slightly weaker

[@Sh1ranu1]

The range of fire is fine, what it actually need is the hit box to extend slightly higher and slightly below

[@davidthomas2870]

Could make the fire radius and damage dependent on fall damage, making meteor heavies have massive alpha strike when they hit at the cost of durability, and synergize well with the chocolate as extra health means you can survive more fall damage

[@marzipancutter8144]

I'm thinking of a simple change that goes into an interesting direction: buff speed so revving actually makes you faster rather than slower, with a further nerf to ranged damage and a vastly bigger windup to revving. That way you'd become a fireball of death for a good few second that WILL tear you down if it gets in fast enough and it has the tools to do this, but it also has to desperately get in because of the decreased ranged damage, and the fact that you are sorta committed to keep it revved once you've started because of the windup, even though you're on a timer the moment you do it, adding pressure to go ham. It would give him a strength in that he can get into the situations that he excels in more easily, at the cost of being even worse when he can't manage to close the gap in the limited time he has.

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

My idea to slightly buff this weapon would be to make the fire ring become bigger the longer you're revved up, and also make un-revving like 50% faster. This barely changes the function of the weapon while still making it a little more viable.

[@DoABarrelRol1l]

Fix the fire-clipping and lower the noise a bit(for my own eardrum's sake) for ambushing with that would make it a fun jumpscare weapon. But I like Fish's incendiary round idea- maybe crits deal mini-crits instead and apply afterburn. Also maybe just remove that -10% or buff the 25% fire damage to make up for it.

[@Omega-mr1jg]

What if the ring was a beam with range?

[@gammaf8896]

Like ... a flamethrower?

[@Crttyt67]

@@Omega-mr1jg how would the damage work then?

[@CreativeUsername1144]

I would say add a fireball mechanic along with the ring of fire so the more people would be caught on fire. What I’m saying is make it shoot the fireball every few seconds while reved but each fireball consumes like 5 ammo. The fireball can have similar properties to a rocket but no explosion and a slightly larger hitbox.

[@squidtcalamary2783]

"This guy is going to pronounce the thing wrong again, watch" Fishstick: *actually pronounces it correctly* Well I'll be damned

[@blazeburner303]

you notice it a lot more with pyros, since the ring of fire does set them on fire for a very small time you end up knocking out pyros faster then without it since both the ring of fire and the flamethrower are very close in range

[@Chinchou69]

Let's be honest, we all use it to t-pose.

[@BanermanArthropide]

Faster ammo depletion go brrr

[@komari3339]

Truee

[@blackskullbanner]

i love how he trying to hide the scorch shot when talking about teaming up with other pyros

[@loveshank1511]

I think it's actually fun to cover weapons like this and the Classic. Weapons that have a unique of different playtime compared to the rest of the weapons in that classes slot. Makes me wonder what you think of the Sydney Sleeper, given how different it is compared to the rest of Snipers Primaries.

[@shiv3rcubesolver664]

I have a sleeper named "headshots are a crutch" that I harass snipers with by treating it as an objectively better machina.

[@Skullhawk13]

The sleeper is not a bad weapon by any means. Hell it had to be nerfed because the idiots at valve actually buffed it to splash jarate on victims. Headshots are flashy but bodyshots are reliable.

[@Zmeeed01]

I have a mixed feeling about tracer rounds being able to instantly set people on fire simply because their pixels are in your screen (The Scorch Shit and the Detonator in right hands are already bad enough in that department) so I would rather see this added to the weapon stats: [+] Hitting enemy players 5 times in a time span of 2 seconds sets them on fire for 3 seconds, each following hit adding 0.5 seconds of afterburn, up to 7.5 seconds total duration of afterburn. [-] This weapon fires unique orange tracer rounds. You still get the incendiary tracer rounds but this time the enemies are warned of your presence. You can still force Snipers away from their position (or at least make their job significantly harder) but with an adequate limit (think of the distance between the checkpoints 0-1, 1-2 and 2-3 on Upward being an example of the tracer rounds being ineffective)

[@danger2236]

idk, this is a metre that has to be charged, in order to give afterburn, so in only a few seconds evey few minutes this is an issue

[@yazidefirenze]

This is kinda good ngl

[@commitfelonyfeline]

Scorch Shit

[@wheeI]

you can tap fire to reliably set someone on fire in 1 second + a few ticks

[@lolescoximpulse]

This gun has another really good thing, it's a armor against bad spies. A bad spy gets confused and panics when set on fire, changing the objective from killing the heavy, to run for survival

[@lonelyshpee7873]

Only against bad spies. And even then, it's inconsistent.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

Id argue bad spys are non threatening anyway. They also don't like it when you spy check them with a mini gun and they tend to stand out.

[@honghong3821]

You realise that bad spy gets the knowledge of "hmm, i must get this guy at the cost of my soul!". No really, you will sometimes have to sacrifice to get certain important picks such as medic. Also 2022 spies aren't even that stupid anymore

[@honghong3821]

And also if you are waiting for a bad spy to come and make this weapon useful you are wasting your time and not doing shits for your teams. Thinks better man, you can't just wait a spy to stab you

[@Everik-ct6pg]

I can't help but wonder if the weapon's original concept (a firework cannon) would be better or worse than the final version.

[@eva2602]

it'd probably be a visual nightmare and absolute cancer for both teams

[@koobyboy4304]

Yes that sounds incredible

[@kagenognade]

this concept sounds like what eventually became dragon's fury

[@honghong3821]

I doubt the game wouldn't even be able to handle those projectiles.

[@Everik-ct6pg]

@@honghong3821 they could just be modified detonator projectiles, i don't think it would be that difficult

[@AlphaHowlVideos]

Huo-long heatmaker suggestions: -Press "reload" to deactivate the ring to conserve ammo/activate the ring at will -Increase ammo capacity by 50 and that's about all I got

[@HEXAN-tv9eu]

Not bad but I think the gun needs a better way to burn enemies not more ammo, I wrote my idea in the comments not that I think it would be implemented sadly

[@ToiLaChinhMinh]

Pressing m3 will cause the bullets of the huo-long heater to ignite and the accuracy will increase by 5%. (ammunition will cost twice as fast) Killing an enemy with a huo long heater increases the bar These add to the above ideas from @Alpha Howl videos I think it will make the huo-long heater a little more worth using. Edit: I think the damage to fill the bar of huo-long heater should be 950

[@SnugWugs137]

I also like the idea of giving it a faster spin up time, so that it can fit a more ambush playstyle.

[@CrusaderTheFirst]

Wow, incendiary round idea is actually a REALLY good idea! Forget trying to counter spies, countering snipers this way sounds MUCH more reliable (and possibly balanced)! It could even have a unique mvm upgrade to increase the duration or something since it'd replace knockback rage.

[@copotasio3043]

After starting playing TF2, I used to believe this weapon was like a Flamethrower I mean, this Minigun has a f$@ing DRAGON HEAD, who SHOULD have a secondary shot, something like the Dragon's Fury proyectile That could make this weapon something more cool, unique, and actually great

[@SkeletonSSBM]

Honestly I never thought this weapon was that bad. I mean at it's worst it's just slightly weaker than the stock minigun, and you lose ammo quickly.

[@davidhong1934]

The joke among the player base is that this thing is a Spy shield that most Spies will just jump over while giggling in French

[@vivelespatat2670]

@@davidhong1934Maginot Line moment

[@RaiderGlaceon]

I feel that. The extra ammo consumption never bothered me, it just meant that I sought out ammo packs and dispensers a tad more. I've torn people to pieces with this thing and it felt so good

[@Vhie05]

The ammo loss barely bugs me whenever I play Payload on BLU, at best it's a strange in-between of the stock/tomislav meta, only problem is when your team is having trouble reaching the cart, in which case you won't be needing the heater

[@Samagachi]

I gave mine a buffalo steak and warrior’s spirit for when he runs out of ammo

[@coffee0093]

This is my favorite minigun! imo the worst part about this gun is the ring of fire obstructing your vision if you are shooting down at people. Also it sounds like a boat idling when spun up which is... odd

[@chickennugget6684]

I feel like the Huo long heater also fails as a cart hugger weapon because the brass beast can just negate it’s movement penalty by riding or being pushed by the cart, and you also deal that juicy 20% more damage, with a low health damage resistance.

[@silentdrew7636]

Leaving you even more open to snipers.

[@innocuousguy123]

hard disagree. the sniper exists and besides, you'd want the faster rev of the heater when on the cart when some spy comes a-chanstabbing

[@markaeresmanlangit9727]

@@silentdrew7636 at least you don't have a ring of fire around you constantly showing where you are making you less of a target Sure snipers will still shoot you but they'll notice you less with the brass beast

[@innocuousguy123]

@@markaeresmanlangit9727 hide behind the cart lmao

[@quadrapuds3176]

I don’t think it fails, it’s just a less effective option.

[@Dylan_Guy]

I wish the gas passer was good, because this would pair so so well with it

[@Kaledrone]

In casual the gas passer is so bad people get pissed if you use it, in MVM the gas passer is so good people get pissed if you use it.

[@fallingloo9930]

@@Kaledrone Basically, people get pissed if you use the gas passer either way.

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

I wonder if giving the heater a rev time speed boost would help. It wouldn't make the tomislav obsolete because the tomislav still has a lot going for it aside from the rev speed, but it would help the huo take advantage of the ring of fire in close range.

[@caramelldansen2204]

or just make the flames start earlier?

[@Hell_O7]

What does the tomislav got going for anyway? I remember preferring it over stock, but I think that's more about aesthetic than anything else

[@GilliganTF2]

Fun fact: when i first started playing Heavy i got dropped a Huo Long i loved the desing and for some reason i was pretty good with it but then i realize "oh yeah i'm playing with bots" PS: for a festivizer version of the Huo Long could be like the festive back burner

[@cyberretard2192]

Love is a burning thing, And it makes a firing ring. Bound by wild desire I fell into a ring of fire (I remember my first big line of kills with this gun on Foublecross after 5 long years of waiting for when I can olay TF2 again and it was glorious)

[@lonkzelda7871]

I went down, down, down, and the flames went higher

[@nepi7847]

tbh i'd just change one thing about this minigun, keep the fire, keep the damage and the sound, but make it so the ammo only drains after firing for the first time, so you can be revved up since forever without any problem, but when you fire your first shot the drain activates until you unrev and rev again

[@homebredprune9980]

I have a cool idea, heavy can change the range of the fire ring S, M, L the same way a vaccinator medic switches resistances. The current ring would be small, and consume 2 ammo, the medium ring would drain 4 ammo, and a larger ring could take 8 to 10 ammo.

[@WooHooLadttv]

I like the idea of having the "spin up damage debuff" lowered to allow for ambushing to be easier, that would be this weapons niche, on top of that make an overheat mechanic that makes the gun fire faster the longer you hold down the fire button, if you fire too long it overheats and you can use it for a few seconds. that would give the heavy an ambush burst dps option and that could be pretty cool, worse at long fights but amazing at quick hit and runs.

[@NephilisThylord]

3:27 missed opportunity for the Funi flex tape man

[@Hesstig]

I could see the ring of fire being made a constant effect rather than a pulse (and increase its vertical AoE) to better counter spies

[@notseth3500]

HUNTER. GET BACK TO GRINDING SYNTHESIS TARGETS.

[@Mattmanj42]

I love the use of the Sly 3's china level music! but also, informative video, thanks fish!

[@garrettroller1924]

I do love that sly 3 soundtrack you have going on. Mad props dude

[@jeremyranger4260]

maybe a heavy shotgun that lights enemies on fire at a certain range and heals you depending on the fire damage you do? I feel like with another synergetic weapon, this minigun would be good

[@loukat1837]

The transparent text at 4:28 says: Pretend you can’t tell this line was done in adr I just sorted of counted how long it took Thanks for making squint at an image for 10 minutes

[@Gameguy5289]

Thank you for the wonderful videos. And I bloody LOVE the Sly Cooper franchise music for the background. Makes me feel so damn nistolgic and stuff. I miss the games so much!!

[@Zaperwolf]

Great video! Also, bonus points for the usage of Sly Cooper music.

[@alejandrolamus2133]

Ring of fire should be immediately activated when shooting, not while spinning and after some delay. A speed buff and the weapon should be fine....

[@nicolasrage1104]

I have a soft spot for the Dispenser hugging play style of the Huo Long on defense. Sometimes I just want to chill and not be hyper focused on the match, but still help out my team. It’s probably because I first played TF2 on the 360, where the Engie couldn’t upgrade buildings fast and he couldn’t move them either, so the only choice was to turtle. A good Heavybro load out I recommend is: Huo Long (Afterburn) Banana (second dispenser for wounded teammates) Holiday Punch (stops Ubered players from destroying the sentry).

[@thepiratedoggo1996]

i love the design of this gun, but i rarely find myself wanting to use it because of it's limited time to use it. i definitely like the idea of using it for ambushes using the enviroment, makes me wanna try it out. XD i think your idea of having the incendiary rounds is probally one of the better solutions for the gun ive seen. good vid

[@kyokonull]

"the crowd control flare guns like the detonator and that other one" we've broke him

[@ShakerSilver]

From my experience, ammo management comes into play quite a bit as Heavy when you're actively contesting the frontline, especially in 5CP where it's constantly in flux, so the ammo drain makes the heater especially hard to keep up at times. It's definitely an interesting gun though, and potentially more versatile than the Beast or Natascha.

[@vanilla8956]

I think the simplest solution is make the ring toggleable with reload, and you can only do the increased damage on burning enemies with it on

[@CAMSLAYER13]

I feel like that just takes away from what makes it unique. No one would use the ring and you'd just have a minigun that does less damage (and looks cool)

[@honghong3821]

Why, what's the point Even then there is the problem with damage penalty. If you have a passive damage penalty then it will be instantly worse than minigun or tomislav, if however the damage penalty applies when in the toggled mode then no one is going to use the mode and it would be as good as minigun. Hey at least we have a reskin. It's super hard to balance this weapon with the current gimmicks, so reworking is a better. It's a dragon, and not every dragon spits out fire.

[@vanilla8956]

​@@CAMSLAYER13 Why do you assume "no one would use it" People would use it when they are about to go in closed corridors, or when an allied pyro is nearby, or when dropping down on a group of enemies and etc.

[@vanilla8956]

@@honghong3821 same reply, Why do you assume "no one would use it" People would use it when they are about to go in closed corridors, or when an allied pyro is nearby, or when dropping down on a group of enemies and etc.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

@@vanilla8956 thats the problem with the weapon its only worthwhile if you end up with a pyro that sets you up and any minigun would shred if you dropped down on a team. Yes your change would alleviate the ammo drain but the core issue of the the flame ring and extra burning player damage not coming up enough to justify getting dunked on by enemy heavys in a fair fight is still there. Don't get me wrong, i do use the heater a lot and it works fine but comes up lacking more often than it helps do anything but look cool. At ideal distance its like 400 health a second to like 450, it doesn't matter.

[@LazyMaybe]

A soldier following you around with a disiplinary action is a fun gimmick with this weapon.

[@thesurprisebox]

I love this series, its so good, keep up the amazing work Mr Fish

[@Izayoink_Saccuy]

Huo long heater is a great weapon if you have a lvl 2 dispenser around you

[@honghong3821]

Level 1 is enough, they supply infinite ammo and health

[@DoABarrelRol1l]

Yeah I use it when trying to hold a choke like ctf_turbine's hallways. Get an engie to place their Dispenser on a corner and just hold m2 to stop any cheeky cloak-and-dagger spys.

[@xidjav1836]

My idea for a rebalance is kind of extreme, Gains a secondary fire that shoots 1 fireball per click which cost around 20-30 ammo, +alternatefiring also activates ring of fire now consuming 2 ammo per second and deactivates when you let go of alternate fire, If you Crit a fire ball it does not do extra damage but stuns them 2 sec. on noraml, .5 on minicrits. -you connot fire alernate/ primary fire 1.5 second after you've used fireball. (Fireball, A projectile that deals direct 20 damage / 1 damage on splash and afterburn, It's speed is a little slower than a rocket) -10% damage on unlit enemies +10% Damage on lit enemies I basically want the player to take advantage of the damage buff even at long ranges, but your ammo takes a huge toll Everytime you use this you effectively only have like 4-5 shots, I reduced the ammo consumption due to fireballs also damning your ammo. And also it has a dragon head at the front of the barrel, the first thing that comes to your mind is that it shoots incindiary round or fireballs, the only problem I can think of is that it outdoes the brass beast in DPS and will be broken, if your next to a dispenser, but I feel the amount of ammo he chews up would mean constant uptime and it's more worth it to do a big burst of damage and mow down the ones who are alive, but can't spam it due to how much it costs to do it

[@404-usernotfound6]

my impression of this weapon was that it was a situational but useable side option i never considered it bad per say, but it may also be time for some good weapon academy videos since i'm not sure there are many more bad weapons left lol love the content keep it up

[@Groaker]

To improve it, I like the ring of fire only activating upon on pressing the reload button idea. Just the simple act of controlling when the flames activate makes it a lot more usable. If you want to *spice it up* a little, maybe upon activation, have the first wave of heat be a much larger AoE (and chew up a chonk of ammo) before reducing down to its normal range.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

IF we wanna talk about needed buffs, let's remove that "damage penalty during the first second of spin-up".

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

@@unityofvitality-5875 That's the point; The nerf was never needed.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

@@unityofvitality-5875 No, it was not. The damage and accuracy penalty still remains to this day.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

@@unityofvitality-5875 No, it wasn't. Heavy never needed a nerf to his minigun.

[@purplehaze2358]

The phrase "human Tunguska event" is the greatest thing yet said by a human being.

[@JohnDoe-oo2vw]

Serial Fat Pyro here, just want to say you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the summary. The Huo-Long Heater is a minigun with a whole lot of situational upsides and two omni-present downsides, but all of the upsides are impactful enough that it just about balances out. There are a couple of use cases that I think you missed, though: against Scouts, Pyros, and Vaccinator/Quick-Fix Ubers. Against Scouts and Pyros, the damage bonus and chip damage from the ring combine give to you a much better chance when they get up in your grill. Against the two ubers, Heater afterburn applies the same status effect as flamethrower afterburn, reducing healing and resistances on the afflicted targets and giving you a better TTK against them than the Brass Beast As for buffs, a bonus to movespeed while revved would be nice, but all it really needs is for the fire ring to be made more reliable

[@sensibledog09]

we present you a heavy main who hates spys

[@Kaledrone]

So every single one of them.

[@bocc7517]

This weapon would be really fun to buff/rework. I’ve already got like 4 ideas

[@Orangestar1]

26:50 Almost the same noise he made seeing the Wrap Assassin work. Must've been a good Christmas for you, Fish!

[@duh_one6180]

glad to see the HWAO long heater get an episode!

[@Boldcheesecake1029]

The jumping thing works with the beast too, but it would need to be a bit bigger drop but you can just rev an inch from the ledge.

[@filthycasual6118]

Nice work, anon.

[@MausOfTheHouse]

This isn't 4chan

[@ZuggleisCool]

@@MausOfTheHouse Enters "This isn't 4chan" Leaves without explaining

[@filthycasual6118]

@@MausOfTheHouse pre-tf2 fish fans get it.

[@MausOfTheHouse]

@@filthycasual6118 Ah, ok

[@coleswagerty8020]

Lmao, the “controlled environment” bit (just before halfway in the vid) was perfect

[@dunstik8842]

I love the Sly Cooper background music. Brings back fond memories.

[@rygornspectre7142]

I love the Dragon's Breath Mechanic. Shooting incendiary rounds as Heavy sounds fucking dope but what are stats if this were to happen? Here's mine: Dealing damage with this weapon fills up a Dragon's Breath meter. Once at full charge (let's say 300 Damage), Press the [Reload] button to start firing incendiary rounds that set enemies on fire and consume twice as much ammo. +25% damage against burning enemies. -10% damage against non-burning enemies.

[@Joe-um7sx]

i like this alot. especially because heavy's only damage meter utility is in mvm as an "upgrade"

[@tinynewtman]

Alt Fire is already used to rev up, you'd need another button to enable it. Reload, maybe? Also, you forgot the penalty of doubled ammo consumption that was mentioned in the video.

[@rygornspectre7142]

@@tinynewtman Right! Right!

[@xandercastaneda8011]

Some people like getting extremely close to a heavy to take advantage of his lack of tracking. So the ring of fire puts at least some distance between you and your opponent so you can keep an effective range

[@lyokianhitchhiker]

Sun-on-a-stick. Just the fact that a weapon has both random & situational crits is enough for an entire episode.

[@xeanheart]

The music choice was on point for this one.

[@MrMickio1]

Personally my switch would be to have a bar that fills up for every say....5-6 seconds your revved up without shooting that then empties out and fires a dragon's fury style fireball that maybe goes a bit further than that. Giving you an upside to being revved and losing ammo and allowing you to combo people with the bullets.

[@Jarethenator]

If you added a stat like “gives 15% more ammo from ammo packs” I think it would become instantly more viable without inherently changing it’s utility or make it more powerful than other options.

[@Twisted_Paradox1]

I love how I heard barely even a sec of the background music but instantly recognized it as the sly 3 china theme.

[@darkness74185]

honestly the ring of fire works way better as a scout deterrent than a spy deterrent. Since aggressive scouts love to run circles around a heavy's face while punching in meatshots, having a circle of flames surrounding you meant that they're forced to either back off into your effective range, or basically get burned to near death trying to take you down

[@jared9721]

I have to wonder whether the original intent was that the Heater wasn't affected by the 10% damage penalty when hitting burning targets, and the only reason it doesn't do that is because of source spaghetti

[@mrgaminduck5544]

Hey FSOAS, real quick, channels like yours have helped me get into and appreciate tf2. Thank you for showing people that this game is amazing and helping me get into tf2

[@Boldcheesecake1029]

Congrats, for me it was my brother who got in cuz of ankle dan the engi man.

[@DUKEHadToDoItToEm]

Only balance change the item needs is that the fire should be a bubble instead of a ring, so that a good spy can't just jump the ring and backstab for free without punishment. That alone would make it viable if not the best minigun for payload offense

[@SMGYTCHAN]

My proposed changes, + Replace the 15% damage buff to mini-crits on burning targets. + Add a meter that charges by dealing 400 damage. When full, bullets set enemies on fire for 1 second. - Remove the ring of fire. - Keep the ammo drain revved up.

[@fadyhanna76]

My idea for rebalancing is similar to the incendiary one but except of a meter, it shoots like 1 or 2 incendiary shots every 3 or 5 seconds. Bit more balanced

[@Freakmaster480]

Because long range, easy to apply fire damage has no issues whatsoever. The scorch shot has never annoyed anyone.

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

The original Huo-Long-Heater was called Huo-Long-Heatmaker, it had a basket like box magazine and was supposed to be a fireworks launcher I think.

[@Appletank8]

@@Freakmaster480 Maybe instead of full fire, its only like 1 second like the Dragons Fury

[@AverageBreastMilkEnjoyer]

2:45 This is truly a -10000 Credit Score moment

[@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853]

The entire sponsor segment is one too considering the subject

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853 yes, exactly

[@thesamdolorian8530]

One time I saw a workshop video and someone made the Huo long helmet, which looks amazing

[@houndoom8465]

I like it for the ways you can mess round with it but also for the fact the boosted damage helps make the vac less of a stop playing heavy move.

[@sheacorduroy5565]

Cart stacking as Heavy is the single biggest reason as to why Sniper should not be nerfed.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

just add class limits

[@Manglet762]

I think nobody wants Snipers OneShot potential against heavy to be nerfed, just his instakilling of the majority of the classes. If they made it so he has to wait a little longer to do 150 damage without the charge time needed to do 300-450 damage bekng extended, he'd kill heavies in the time ot takes tl quickscope them two or three times while not being able to shut down classes he shouldn't be, or at least nearly as easily.

[@honghong3821]

Nonsense, not everyone plays payload. Also you can't just tell your team to go for a class war either

[@sheacorduroy5565]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Class limits don’t fix the problem and just suck overall.

[@nathanhays8696]

I'm not sure how balanced this idea would be, but what if the +25% damage bonus against burning players was changed to be mini-crits?

[@mariustan9275]

That would certainly be interesting given how mini crits remove damage falloff but also have damage ramp up.

[@comrade7324]

this weapon is what I've been waiting for since the future weapons video

[@CommanderLex]

I know this isn't related to the topic of the video, but @2:17 just saying "yes" to being called the f-slur is brilliant.

[@datojoseph9924]

I know this is basically ripping a page out of the Flare Guns, but here is a reworked concept that I think could be both skill expressive and pretty cool: + Pressing the Reload button while revved up fires out a Detonator-style flare, that when aimed center mass can light a group of targets on fire + Flat 25% damage boost against burning players - Each flare costs 40 ammo - Flares have 100% damage penalty (so only afterburn is applied) - 10% damage penalty against non-burning targets This definitely treads on the Pyro flares a bit, but I think this would be really interesting because; 1. Like the Flare gun, it rewards Heavies for precision aiming (going for the center target in a group of enemies to maximize value) 2. It encourages Heavies to think about ammo consumption, but in a more balanced way where they get to control how much ammo they're willing to sacrifice for the damage boost. They don't get to spam aoe flares for free, unlike THAT OTHER FLARE GUN 3. It puts the main upside directly in the Heavy's control. It's no longer dependent on having an ally pyro around 4. It boosts the Heavy's ability to duel at mid-range and it does change the way opponents have to think when fighting the Huo-Long Heater If the numbers make the HLH too good against burning players, the flat damage boost can be scaled back to 20% and the cost of the flare can go down to 30 instead.

[@DeathDealer_1021]

Neat

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

Interesting that the Huo-Long Heater only heats at close range

[@p19pityscoop83]

That was a good one.

[@anthonyoliver418]

Personally I think this weapon is good, it rewards aggression and map usage with higher ledges, and it provides protection from spies, while most spies can run away or just tank your bullets while in your face until they can get to your back, but this weapon punishes the ladder choice heavily and make killing them easier when they do the other option, meaning as long as you track them, they can’t just jump over it, with how obsessed spies are with stabbing, also if you have a pyro who is burning people often which is pretty common with how often pyros rush people, it means not only are you helping to back up certain teammates more especially pyro who has to rely damage over time on his enemies in order to guarantee an kill on someone who is attacking you over time, plus it still works mostly like the regular, plus it pairs well with the shot gun giving you more power up close for needing to rely on careful usage. Also it counters Vac at least a bit and makes shot guns useful by opening your options vast, mini gun for devastating close range dps, and shot gun for mid to close range burst damage.

[@Amnamnimnus]

*Huo-Long Heater (Rebalance)* • +20% EFFECTIVE damage boost against burning targets • -10% damage penalty otherwise • On equip gain a fuel resource, nearly identical to the engineer's metal resource, which can be replenished along with ammo by pickups • Payload Carts and Dispensers replenish fuel at a 1 fuel : 5 ammo rate • -60% fire rate while fuel is zero • Generates a ring of fire WHEN FULLY REVVED UP (able to shoot) that depletes your fuel resource while active _The ring of fire is a constant stream like pyro's flamethrower, it has virtually the same DPS as before but includes a mild knockback that will gradually push enemies out of it's field. (Very mild, but enough that classes at 100% speed or less in your field will be unable to close any distance. The ring's influence is also much taller so that only enemies dropping from above can avoid it.)_ • Press the RELOAD button to spend 25% fuel and have the next burst of your ring of fire cover a massive area _This can be used before or during spinup and amounts to a few ticks of mid-range rings which will apply your ring's full ramp-up damage and afterburn but no knockback. (This effect can only be activated once at a time and has a one-second silent cooldown.)_ Notes: The HUD for the fuel could be directly lifted from the engineer, replacing the wrench with a fire or gas themed icon. Two new visual effects would be present for the gun spinning up but not yet/unable to generate rings, and for the "Nova" effect after pressing reload

[@Amnamnimnus]

The description of my suggestion was getting too long and so I neglected to mention a few things. 1. As far as the rate at which fuel should be consumed while firing this weapon, assuming it had 200 "fuel points" (which is ideal, since it would share the same properties as the metal resource when picking up ammo kits), and that each tick of the ring's effect corresponded to the minigun's rate of 0.105, I suggest that every "activation" of the ring of fire include 1 tick and cost 1 fuel , approximating to 10 fuel a second, allowing you to stay revved, firing or not, for up to 20 seconds (without using the RELOAD ability). Basically, it would have the exact same reserve and consumption rate as your ammo, but the benefit is that this resource is independent to how much you are firing, helping you keep track of how much fuel you have left solely based on how long you remain spun up, and any time spun up not shooting will result in a fire rate penalty later, if you don't restock. 2. The pushback mechanic serves as a proximity shield against spies, yes. But they have 107% speed and can be speed boosted with the Big Earner or whip, or can tank the damage with the Kunai as they inch toward you (or just shoot you). Other fast classes would be better off staying outside your zone but could theoretically get in close with overheal or resistances (ie demoknight). The pushback also serves to give unaware enemies a chance to not get melted, but it also repositions them and the fire makes them flinch, meaning they are at a disadvantage to target you but have the chance to escape if you aren't targeting them. You could of course use walls, props or the cart to sandwich your target and nullify the knockback. 3. The base afterburn application rate on this new ring of fire would be massively reduced, so that targets caught in the middle of it receive the full duration effects, but those brushing past after its deploy and being hit with a few ticks of the fire receive proportionately less. Using the Nova ability would apply enough stacks of fire to anyone in the blast to result in ~6 seconds of afterburn, meaning by spending 50% of your fuel you could apply full afterburn to everyone nearby in a middling range. To offset this, it would be telegraphed when this attack is coming-- *The eyes on the minigun's dragon shroud light up when the Nova attack is prepared. When the ring is activated, the gun roars like the mythical beast, and a fast-moving ring is emitted from the gun along the floor, which grows to the attack's range!* This ring, like the one currently in the game, CAN be jumped over if timed correctly. Making it non-instantaneous also distinguishes it from the normal ring of fire, which as described is more akin to an open-topped forcefield. 4. The extra damage also applies if the gun has ammo but no fuel, making it a worse-worse Brass Beast. If +20% seems like too much damage, maybe ~17.5% would be safer, but it has to be enough that the wielder feels rewarded for properly managing and utilizing their resources.

[@berkshire4607]

I think that if this gun gets balanced, then they should make the 10% less damage reduction active when the ring of fire is on and make the reload key (R) be able to toggle the ring of fire on and off.

[@Joe-um7sx]

then it would be a straight upgrade lol, imo maybe change the damage reduction to ONLY against non-burning enemies and leave it like that. to me what you said sounds like removing a downside and replacing the other downside with a utility.

[@berkshire4607]

Actually,@@Joe-um7sx, I meant to remove the 10% damage reduction when the ring of fire wasn't active. But thanks for telling me.

[@honghong3821]

Straight upgrade, just straight upgrade. If people know that you get 10% less damage when toggled people will jist not toggle the mode forever and it will do as fine as stock. Hey at least we have a reskin. It feels as if you are trying to drop the minigun's everything price (aussie, skins, festivized, etc...)

[@berkshire4607]

@@honghong3821 Actually, with the fact that you can toggle the ring of fire, your kind of force to make a choice: do insane damage up close, but doing bad damage at far range and have awful anmo comusction, or good damage at far range, but loss that crowd control you gain at close range

[@honghong3821]

@@berkshire4607 1. Tapfiring 2. Heavy is already good at crowd control, the ring of fire is useless

[@vikavolt11]

I wish there was a flamethrower that prioritized staying away from enemies and punished W+M1 My idea is to make the flames go farther with reversed ramp-up *and* fall-off and have a pretty harsh downside (I was thinking much faster ammo drain but that would be absolutely overpowered on payload offense)

[@deadfurydbf9647]

Make it so that you cant get ammo by PL and dispensers and thats about it

[@maxbrooks5468]

I'm not gonna lie, you shooting that spy who accidentally got set on fire and blew their cover was great.

[@IvaHaze]

Finally, i love this videos man.

[@lomakinalex]

I find this gun to not be all that bad honestly, it’s definitely weaker than stock, but heavy is just such a strong class in general that calling it a bad weapon is a bit unfair I think. Ammo consumption is definitely the biggest weakness and especially when you’re not able to close the distance on enemies as easily it makes the gun less effective. That being said I do find that being aggressive and flank with this gun is a very effective strategy as being in their face you literally melt your opponents. The damage penalty really becomes unnoticeable when you’re in their face and I find that not being able to constantly be revved up is only an issue when you’re dealing at long range. Heavy is just such a strong class at close to medium range that I don’t think this weapon is bad it’s just gimmicky.

[@LedZedd]

Lot of ppl say Heavy is one of the weaker classes lol

[@TheBrawlUnit]

I'd love to see it get a stat that reduces the speed penalty when revved up. It would give it an unique edge over other miniguns in gameplay by making it more able to pursue enemies, possibly offsetting a bit of the damage penalty. It would allow you to get more out of that ammo time limit and it would also give the ring of fire a tiny bit more reach in ambushes and other situations. With all that combustion going on it has to be able to serve as somewhat of an engine.

[@dickc.normus2406]

As with the Brass Beast I recommend standing in front of the cart while revving up to make it push you forward for added mobility.

[@JohnnyGuiltyMan]

The Hualong Heater is literally the only weapon in the game that gets genuine use out of a Pyro just yeeting the Gas Passer in the middle of an enemy team