[TF2] Biggest Losers of the Final Updates

[@TealOpal]

I accidentally reversed one or two of the clips in this video. This is what happens when you update your editing software. Sorry about that lol.

[@DragonGod6643-Gaming]

👍🏻

[@CallMeCardboard]

You just made us a little scavenger hunt!

[@WolfpackDan859]

Man i remember the stun sandman.They could just nerf the stun a bit more but nah they deleted the whole purpose of the weapon

[@Gandolf_Hitler]

The Baby Face's Blaster is sad

[@slimeybob5294]

@@TealOpal I remember watching those and thinking there was something you meant to demonstrate or that it was an artistic choice.

[@Cinnamowo]

Thanks Valve for adding the fucking electricity ball to the short circuit as your last balance change

[@karal_the_crazy]

As an engineer I use that ball to make people hate me 😂

[@arcturus64]

BLU engineer literally giving RED blue balls

[@kirbyfan3000]

That thing is so strong. It almost 1 shots low health classes and it blinds you.

[@Josedx9]

Please let's stop complaining about mechanics that are fun, that we haven't learned from what happens with weapons that used to be fun and now nobody uses them even for memes in the game?

[@ViketAnnYuumi]

i hate the ball not because is broken because it was a fuck you weapon againts soldiers in meelee range and fuck you spies

[@slysamuel5902]

7:07 “However if the base jumper truly was such a problem, surely you could have banned it? In 6’s?” They did, before the nerf. In fact it is still banned today, so the nerf meant nothing.

[@TealOpal]

I'm pretty sure I said that exact thing approximately two lines before the line you quoted in the video

[@jaade9485]

this line confused me too

[@JeffarryLounder]

I disagree with Teal though. You can absolutely blame competitive players for their obnoxious insistence on Valve to balance the game around a non-essential mod of the base game. Valve are at the peak of the blame obviously for buying into it, but without all the nonsensical hype from competitive in the first place, Valve would've never been pressured into it.

[@slysamuel5902]

@@JeffarryLounder I disagree. Valve weren’t ever forced into it, they did it likely as a marketing strategy because competitive gaming was on the rise and thought it would keep tf2 relevant. I don’t believe they were forced into it by a fraction of the player base. As far as I know, comp players were keeping to themselves. Maybe they’d suggest a rebalance occasionally but anything unbalanced in their format could just be banned and not worried about for them. I don’t see how they were being forceful

[@NESFlint]

I actually never noticed that the 'jarate-cloud' was removed from the Sydney sleeper, I thought I just wasn't hitting useful headshots or suffering from source bugs whenever I used it in the past couple of years. Damn...

[@starmaker75]

Because mostly vavle thought 6 v 6 was the most imporant refence for balancing. However it became for nothing as Sydney sleeper is still banned. Funny how jarate and mad milk were not nerf despite them being over power in 6 v6 and even in casual. Again balancing for "e-sport" mindset has been a plague for many games

[@Dog-999i]

@@starmaker75Especially if it’s an e-sport only less than 1% of the community plays. Not to mention, TF2 was created for 12v12 matches not 6v6 where balanced weapons like the Flying Guillotine are OP and strong weapons like the Kunai aren’t that good.

[@starmaker75]

​​@Dog-999i not only that but competitive/6 v 6 will have different and changing opinions on weapons. For example the running gloves were banned because of the idea of heavy going faster to mid was broken and boring. It probably the reason for the eviction notice nerf. However recently that player being over thinking and in practice, heavy was still not use for that. He was still used for defense and holding point and him going trying to capture was silly(as your better off with using scout, solider or demo) so that enivcton notice nerf was even dumber then we thought. Also again they didn't nerf the vaccintor as that a broken weapon not only in competitive but also in casual. So yeah I don't get some vavle balancing during meet your match to blue moon.

[@cursedhawkins1305]

I was in that boat myself, I remember using that mechanic from the Sydney Sleeper and wasn't even aware of its removal as a result of Blue Moon, so I was completely caught off guard to see it gone.

[@Yozzoy]

"7 years ago" My knees just cracked because of that statement. Its funny too because with mainly the Sandman I feel the fear of god enter me when I see one before remembering 5 seconds later "Oh ya its nerfed now". I've developed such a Pavlovian response to seeing it lmaooo.

[@masterdoge17]

That feeling when kneeling surgery is tomorrow 😏

[@AtteR04]

I never see the sandman used anymore

[@rolay7730]

I was there when the Reserve Shooter was at full power. It honestly wasn't that bad. Most of the time, I just thought. "Oh well, at least it wasn't W+m1." The main problem people had was that airblast always blasted people at the same predictable arc no matter where you aimed, making shots too easy. But they changed airblast in the Pyro update. Meaning if they fully reverted the Reserve Shooter it would still be harder to pull off than it used to be.

[@isenokami7810]

I definitely remember getting salty at Pyros using it specifically, albeit for a short time. Like, I had one or two bad matches worth of experience rather than developing an intense hatred throughout its reign of terror. Think that’s probably indicative of its actual state back then: a problem yes, but the hate was likely overblown. And yeah, the old airblast mechanics were definitely the problem more than the Reserve Shooter itself. I think back to my memories of the problem days-again, mostly just one match-and I remember the problem being that it was already over as soon as the Pyro pressed m2. Once you were caught in the airblast, there wasn’t really a way to get out of it before you were slaughtered, you just had to accept your fate. And then when you meet the Pyro again knowing they’re still running the combo, you’re basically in a wobbling predicament: simple as “don’t get grabbed (airblasted)”, much more complicated actually achieving that. A noob combo on top of a crutch combo then (if you consider those the same thing, fair enough), since that’s especially hard on new or casual players who aren’t prepared or interested in playing mind games just to approach you. Would be interesting to see what would happen if you reverted the Reserve Shooter on Pyro while keeping the new airblast. Might still have problems, but the biggest one is still dealt with.

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

Yeah i wish the Reserve shooter was back to it's old state because currently pyro does not have any benefit or synergy for using it

[@JeffarryLounder]

I agree. Old reserve shooter primarily sucked because airblast would pin you upwards into the same position relative to the Pyro's view. With the current iteration of airblast it would be fine.

[@aganaom1712]

Shout-out to the liberty launcher for never being noteworthy ever

[@Beginnerss]

It's fun with Mantreads and Whip.

[@aganaom1712]

@Beginnerss I actually prefer to use it with the panic attack and gardener since jumping with it only costs you around 25ish health per rocket on average. That way Im still pretty mobile, pyros are less chaotic to fight and vaccinator medics are easier to take down consistently

[@drivanradosivic1357]

I had ideas on how to change the Liberty Launcher, would the LL with a simple addition of "wen airborne, do 35% more damage", which is -15% plus 35% for plus 20% more damage when airborne? or do we need something else?

[@Ervonesque]

It's very all over the place, like it's trying to become everything at once and failed, while also being useless to combo with the Reserve Shooter like what

[@jaade9485]

​@@drivanradosivic1357 that would be crazy op

[@slimeybob5294]

Opal, why are you teal?

[@MASERIDER]

He is Perry the platypus

[@ThatOneGrutMain]

​@@MASERIDERisn't he green (ish blue)

[@MASERIDER]

@ Idk but there’s a platypus controlling me

[@Orange_the_guy]

​@@MASERIDER got record's on your fingers

[@cheese1008]

Maybe he’s a synthetic

[@Mr_toaster-hu7lg]

Ill never forgive valve for gutting one of my favorite melee weapons for heavy. The eviction notice wasn't the most reliable or most useful melee for heavy, but it was the most fun one to use out of the bunch. There just wasn't any reason to make them a worse version of the GRU. RIP my truly feared specialized killstreak eviction notice, I miss you so much...

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

Yeah they had to nerf anything that made Heavy ever so slightly faster because in the competitive scene they hate heavies with any mobility increases

[@Leeloo-Foxx]

the bison and pomson nerfs made no sense considering they were ass BEFORE the nerfs

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

wait, even the Pomson got nerfed????

[@JackNick2000]

@@CptJack-ws8nzit used to pierce enemies AND it’ll always drain the full 10% Uber or 20% cloak at any range. They nerfed it so Engies can’t spam it into a choke and drain Medic’s Uber for free with little counterplay

[@Josedx9]

@@JackNick2000 which also doesn't make sense, because if the engie is spamming shots from the pompson, it means that he is exposing himself to being hurt (snipers for example) and his sentry is unprotected.

[@DakkaScrappa]

another thing to note is the slowdown effect of the bonk can be nullified by running diagnally, same principle also applied to the natascha

[@invalid_user_handle]

Never forget that Valve was genuinely scared enough by Overwatch's focus on competitive play that they pandered way too much to TF2's competitive scene, even though they did not reflect the opinions of the majority of the community. Poor quickplay, gone too soon...

[@CoralCopperHead]

Ah yes, I miss the days of endlessly getting dumped into 24/7 Instant Respawn 2Fort RTD servers. What quality gameplay that was.

[@LightsJusticeZ]

The Eviction Notice nerf to drain Heavy's health makes me unfathomable upset and puzzled as to who at Valve decided it needed that.

[@fongjasper8206]

Yeah. . . That's stupid:/

[@raptormage2209]

They probably thought it would make the gru obsolete.or they didn't a free movement option for heavy ?

[@fongjasper8206]

@raptormage2209 even then why not just make its speed boost lower ?

[@LightsJusticeZ]

@raptormage2209 I think it would have been better just to remove the speed boost while active and just gain a speed boost after punching an enemy.

[@raptormage2209]

@@LightsJusticeZ Maybe a short speed boost to reach your target would be nice ?

[@szonig_pl3024]

Remember when Tomislav was gutted for a while because of the hefty state of emergency balancing? (read: held by the last bits of 10 year glue with a string to carry on) Yeah, those times

[@ManlyPlant]

I feel like the Bison is a weird example where they kept trying to make the weapon more consistent with its damage but kept making mistakes with it. the loss of the multi hit makes sense when you consider just how much the damage... fluctuates with the multihits. They saw this idea by making it do more base damage then made it slower to compensate. You can almost see the idea, but it's really muddied by the other features. Then the reversion happened. And then because it uses flame particle hitboxes, it's hitbox is now smaller. What a weapon valve.

[@serPomiz]

the hitbox is smaller, but the particle is bigger, so if it touches surfaces with the latter it still counts as hitting a wall, even if it really didn't

[@user-ox4ii2bw6x]

I'll never forgive valve for nerfing the eviction notice for no reason. Was my goto melee

[@raptormage2209]

Its such an easy fix too, just get rid of the healthdrain

[@JoSephGD]

There were some close calls that these updates fixed. Demoknight's Claymore was completed killed in Meet Your Match, only to be mostly reverted back to its previous design in Jungle Inferno. The Short Circuit was finally made decently balanced with the energy ball in Blue Moon. Blue Moon also fixed the Enforcer's resistance piercing in most situations, which actually gave it a functional niche, even if it is now well past its Gun Spy-boosting flat +20% damage era. Also Bonk was technically a design reversion, as it originally had a speed penalty once it wore off... which was removed in 2010. Surprised that this nerf didn't happen sooner.

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

I heavily disagree on The Short Circuit, currently its extremely fustrating to play against as any projectile class like soldier and demoman since their primary weapons get completely nullified by it

[@crispiestprice395]

6:24 "WAAHHH I CANT AIM NERF THE BASE JUMPER!!! I DONT WANNA LEARN TOADJUST"

[@ImperialCaleb]

The apologism for the base jumper is ridiculous. Someone with perfect airstrafing is absurdly difficult to land shots on even with hitscan sometimes. It's way worse than the old atomizer which people didn't have a problem with nerfing.

[@cantbelieve5231]

The 7 Heavy mains just watching people complaining about the Base Jumper.

[@VeetiM]

ImperialCaleb is right, I've seen a few clips of people who knew what they were doing with the pre-nerf base jumper, and 2 dudes with direct hits could not land a single shot on him from medium range 😭😭 it's very very very strong in the right hands, and opal is wrong in saying it was only a problem in 6s

[@Khronik_]

​@VeetiM sounds like skill issue to me

[@v-14415]

@@ImperialCaleb they could've just limited the strafing time, no need for more nerfing

[@GrtGuy]

Eviction notice is dang near unusable right now

[@S_whoelse]

They should make the eviction notice do more damage the more consecutive hits you get capped at 50, and make the speed boost increase in intensity the more you hit people (capped at just a bit faster than the soldier say). At least then you can kill someone in the heat of fhe moment

[@thisbox]

15:20 Note that not a single clip showing the Ambassador actually showcases below 102 damage on headshot.

[@NoName......]

The Ambassador is still a great weapon idk what this guy is talking about

[@gallofilm]

what's your point?

[@arbiter771]

@@NoName...... That's the thing. The Amby IS a good weapon even still. It still rewards everything ti used to, just at a less punishing rate to the receiver of the damage. Before you could be dinked foe 102 damage from halfway across the map and there was not much you could do. It was genuinely as broken as Current Diamondback is, except a little less so since you needed to """aim""" with it. It had a very generous hitbox and if you got even slightly good with it, it was better than stock. Honestly it still IS better than stock, just not at every skill level now.

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

they should have done something else to it because its still better than stock in the places that matter

[@lazyvector]

​@@NoName...... sure thing it is, just don't cry about sniper having no counter play

[@pyrodontcutoffsoldiershand2746]

Bonk is a nerf literally no one asked for, for a problem that didn't exist.

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

That's hard to say tbh

[@B.L.U.S]

its still a cool weapon tough works very well as a discount dead ringer

[@RambunctiousReptilian]

Finally got around to binging your stuff to get here and I gotta say I love this video as well. Also I swear to god the sydney sleeper must have some weird mandela effect because I swear I still see the jarate cloud from it

[@doctormedic2682]

Whenever I am having a bad day, I just remember what Valve has done to the Bison, Sandman, and Eviction Notice. I then click my heels and go on about my morning with a smile on my face!

[@C.A._Old]

*This is why people want play 2010s and 2000s version of Team Fortress 2.*

[@TheInfamousCloaker]

But then you remember that slowdown effects aren't a real downside as you can just strafe move to negate them entirely for majority of them.

[@NiiRubra]

You can, yes, but here's the thing: the vast majority of players don't know that, and between those that do, half the time one won't think to strafe move to negate the penalty they are suffering, because they barely register it's happening amidst the chaos. Source: my strange natascha is still getting kills.

[@Sarmathal]

Actually it's Valve AND Competitive players fault. Most of the fault lies with Valve but competitive players most certainly had an effect on weapon balance.

[@Spiffyo]

Not quite, Valve is squarely to blame, Mad Milk, Jarate, Natascha, Wrangler, and Vaccinator should've seen nerfs and yet they stayed unchanged somehow. I genuinely believe that they would've done more updates like Blue Moon, but with newer games having more prevelance and just being shiny, most of the team that got an earfull by the community just wanted to do something that'd likely be more enjoyable.

[@Sarmathal]

@@Spiffyo Caber and BASE Jumper were definitely nerfed due to comp players bitching.

[@Spiffyo]

@@Sarmathal Caber itself was likely nerf for that, but it let you at worst trade a demoman for medic, which is universally good especially when you can fly through the air and get a sudden drop. The issue is that the caber should still be able to kill light classes since its max damage is 138 damage but the damage check is bugged so you'll occasionally oneshot. BASE Jumper is the only weapon I say your 100% right on because its change made no sense outside of that.

[@user-bkey]

comp players rly try to avoid all of the blame like we've forgotten or something

[@starmaker75]

While some of the weapon nerfs were undertable. However why did the bison and notice get nerf despite them needing a buff more

[@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad]

I started really playing in Covid. I am now further from when I started than I was from the last update back then. And even then everyone knew we weren’t getting anything else

[@LeverActionShotgun15]

0:25 has me genuinely on the verge of tears

[@doodguytheblank2403]

9:05 it actually was nerfed on soldier because the mini-crit effect changed from “target is airborne” to “target is airborne from explosives”. Meaning that there were some situations like jumping scouts where you could get the bonus damage without using your rocket launcher.

[@drilltank-6603]

I feel like the Pomson should be an honorable mention. Had the same multi-hit mechanics as the Bison just with a little more damage and a utility effect that was nearly universally reviled. Except Valve kept nuking the piercing effect and obsessively kept the Spy cloak and Uber drain effects that not many people wanted, instead of letting it be a funny side-grade to the Shotgun.

[@NiiRubra]

Pomson was actually pretty neat: what if I'm an engineer on offense (payload for example) and I want to provide some supporting fire to my team, by firing some projectiles down the cart's path to help out? I can't do that with the shotgun, I _can_ do that with the Rescue Ranger but for less damage, and now it's disappointing with the Pomson.

[@SuperPostall]

If Valve removed the über and cloak draining aspects of the weapon, while also still keeping the piercing aspect of it, then it would've actually been a pretty neat sidegrade for the engineer.

[@C.A._Old]

Valve who boss now heh? Comic 7 release moment:

[@otamatonefan8996]

And forever more The Amputator gently weeps, having it's regen still silently crippled.

[@SWAGMESSIAH06]

neddle jumpscary 14:16

[@chrissywilson9868]

Teal, why are you opal?

[@NiiRubra]

I stopped playing TF2 in 2014 and came back sometime in the 20's, and as I catched up to all the balance updates, my reactions were roughly "I'm sorry, they did what? I'm sorry _they did what?_ I'm not sorry, what the fuck did they do to the sandman?"

[@teddydaly-dh9bs]

for the balance change what about the neon annihaltor change

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

That change is good but diabolic. Because the gas passer charges while your dead, this play style actively rewards you for playing wm+1ing with the plog and purposely dying so you can have gas when you response. This strategy is also the most predictable thing in the game and you as the pyro have no extra mobility when a land shark.

[@Nyaada77]

its literally less effective than just using the axtinguisher ​@@diegodankquixote-wry3242

[@vaporsouls6752]

Joining tf2 around MYM made me feel like i was there for the sacking of rome

[@emissne]

righteous bison is valves punching bag.

[@ampstamp]

Really enjoying the clip of that scout getting one-tapped by the ambassador and slamming his head into a wall

[@FanoWarFan]

4:45 About the sandman and Bonk's slow effect; it actually can be completelty negated by just spamming a & d

[@isenokami7810]

…thank you for letting me know the support sniper rifle I use to not feel as awful about struggling to even hit bodyshots has a good amount of that support utility and pity points stripped from it.

[@wizard_4194]

I've never understood the outrage for nerfing the base jumper. Its still decent. Hell I've seen a trolldier on a hightower server go 34-0 with the fucking base jumper. People just saw the smallest nerf imaginable and got butthurt over it, to the point that its still being discussed today. It was never a good item to begin with, only effective way to use the thing is on trolldier and it still does the job REALLY fucking well.

[@undvined]

>"it was never a good item to begin with" Why nerf it then? The only reason people were angry about it is because the nerf removed something that made it fun, not necessarily because it made it worse.

[@wizard_4194]

@undvined idk why they nerfed it. They also nerfed the bison for no aparent reason. Valve likes to do that. They nerfed the eviction notice too for no reason. Its also wild that alot of people STILL blame the "sweaty comp community" for this nerf when they've had it whitelisted forever. Valve could have simply ignored them like they always ignore the tf2 community.

[@undvined]

@@wizard_4194 True that

[@CptJack-ws8nz]

the reason why is because the nerf made the base jumper much less fun to use like by removing the ability to constantly deploy and undeploy the parachute for example

[@anothersoul]

Sandman should just stun on moonshot

[@dernamenlosefan]

Personally as a Pyro main I hated using the old reserve shooter (it just felt so fucking cheap) but actually really enjoy the post Jungle Inferno one because it still is a reliable stock shotgun for the first 4 shots in terms of damage and pulling off a reflect into mini-crit shotgun shot is one of my favourite sources of dopamine only trumped by a critical third degree hit that strips people of their precious pocket medic. I kinda have a thing for under utilised weapons and both of these have a spot side by side in my "counter almost anything" loadout with a stock flame thrower. The Sydney sleeper nerf honestly was understandable as a easily spammable long range jarate was just devious, personally I wish they just kept the max timer on headshot so you can at least reliably SMG piss shot combo with it again because it was stupid fun.

[@alicebrown6215]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate that while the Ambassador can't do the Spyper meme anymore, it *didn't* get random bullet deviation all the time.

[@alinabaa4290]

i have not taken my pills for quite a long time, therefore i believe that tf2 will get an update soon

[@Daiyamaruu]

the sandman + cleave combo was one of the reasons i started maining scout. Hearing about the glory days of the sandman brings a tear to my eye. I miss my boy

[@kubsons0732]

15:57 the answer is: less than 1% of the playerbase. The most remarkable pre-amby players that i can think of right now would be Hei, Desmond, Toast, Acooma and inso, maybe Woolen and even Stabby at one point as well. Literally nobody else back then was consistent enough, nobody else could utilize the gun on the same level as these guys.

[@ani_star9729]

At least with the Bonk speed nerf it’s pretty easy to negate since all slowdown effects can be removed by strafing left and right while running

[@TanteiRotana]

Even buffing the base jumper to allow 2-3 deploys per jump would be nice.

[@kerplunk_862]

Imagine if Sniper wasn't Valve's favorite, the game would be actually enjoyable and best game of all time. You just have to kill the problem child and everything will be just fine.

[@wyrdcyko]

RIP base jumper 😭 it used to be a fun gimmick tool

[@paulservary5360]

I'm awake, I'm awake...

[@nintendoallstarsstuffies]

R.I.P. the dead ringer

[@TooFewSecrets]

Most insane nerf ever in TF2 history has to be the stickybomb damage nerf they reverted within a week. Literally made Demoman unusable. Thank God that didn't stick.

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

This inspired me to hit up TF2 later today. Thanks you Opal

[@thehexykins]

Its sad to think that almost 90% of tf2's unlockables arnt usable anymore and 20% of that 90% are just barely functional for normal gameplay. Personally I think tf2's weapons were better when valve cared more about releasing fun new gimmicks for the classes rather then what fits for balance. Don't get me wrong, when combos are so broken they make it painful for everyone else to pay against should be nerfed, but most of the tf2 unlocks were fine and just needed some minor tweaks and changes instead of full blown overhauls that threw them down 10 flights of stairs into the nearest dumper.

[@AliceLoverdrive]

Eh? On pretty much all classes most unlocks see plenty of use?

[@Tjprower]

The ambassador never let the spy kill someone in "one shot" at any range ever UNLESS they were a scout or spy using a max health penalty weapon. As someone who DID use the long range feature of the ambassador SPECIFICALLY for that trait for the purpose of harassing VIPs on the enemy team, I've always been salty about it. If someone died to a headshot from it, that meant they were ALREADY HURT by someone else. However, being able to put exactly 102 damage on anyone at any range was incredibly useful. I'd often end pushes because no medic is willing to walk forward when he just took 102 seemingly from nowhere. It's not hard to understand why that may be seen as worse than just killing outright, but I thought it fit spy perfectly. To me, his role always was disruption. The potential to reason with your enemies by reducing them all under half health unless they are a heavy was incredibly powerful.

[@serPomiz]

the bison, and I'm ready to bet my right testicle on in, it's a case of some newer guy reading the document, getting to the "test showed bug, we isolated it, replicated it and made it the focus" and decided to "fix it". man I want my old bison. it was perfect also, the shortstop shove. that's so absolutely useless as it is. at least if it overrode the reload, you could use it to get a bit of space between reloads

[@spiritfox123]

As a pyro main who played through the Reserve Shitter era, and played with it a lot, it definitely needed to be nerfed. The up side of mini critting airborne targets extended to people who were simply jumping. It was nondiscriminatory, it did not care what the source of being airborne was just that you were not on the ground. They didn't change that until the Tough Break update either. I still think it just shouldn't have been added to Pyro, which wasn't even done until the Manniversary update, when the weapon itself was added in the Uber Update. They waited three and a half months before making it usable by Pyro, only to make it borderline unusable on that very class damn near 6 years later.

[@Sliverknight7472]

"competitive isnt a scapegoat for balance changes" Is a hot take, since every company wants to adhere to them

[@drivanradosivic1357]

Nice video thanks for the list. for the Sandman, I would have kept the Stun effect as a Moonshot reward, as in, if you managed to hit someone with a PROJECTILE from really far away, that should be rewarded with the Stun on Moonshot. Plus mae the Moonshot also do Crit damage of the Ball. That said, I would also add in a new effect for the normal not Moonshot Baseball hits: the Daze effect. The Daze effect is simply making the Baseball slow down movement, firing speed, reload speed, rev up speed, swing speed, switching speed for 20% and clal that the Daze effect. This might make the Sandman more balanced along with the Moonshot change. Although, the question is, do we turn the 15HP decrease into a 15% damage vulnerability when active or some such with Daze only or do something so close rnage is Daze further is Humiliation and Moonshot is Stun, but you have 15HP less? the bonk atomic Punch, the funny thing is, it had the slowdown in the earlier versions of Bonk, but was removed and added back again, but it fraking makes it unfun to play. Maybe also give the Soda's (current and hopefully future ones), the ability to heal for 50HP that can also overheal or give temporary health? that way, the slow down is compensated by the temporary extra health for those 5 seconds? Critacola would get 50HP temporay health for the duration of the Soda effects, which was 8 seocnds, right? Base jumper, the removal of the floating ability like a hot air balloon as well as redeploying it should be reverted. the airmobility being halved could be a good way to balance it,while brining back the hot air balloon and redeploy ability would give more upsides. Reserve shooter, I think the problem was the previous arblast mechanics vs the new airblast mechanics. the Righteous Bison, my poor wonderful Ray gun, what id they do to you?! give the Bison a base damage of 50, increase the projectile speed, increase the hit box, add in a multi shot piercing mode of 50 damage for 2 charges, and crit charges cause minicrits and make the alt fire ability use 1 charge and be the primary fire when you shoot. Eviction Notice, this melee item for the Heavy, that increased the speed for a little did not need the butchering it got. bring back the damage vulnerability instead of the health drain. also, an improvement for this could be hitting someone makes it so you get your melee damage boosted for 80% damage, which is -60% damage plus 80% damage for plus 20% damage when speed boosted on your brass knuckledusters implies that heavy did light jabs before committing to hard punches. also, the Health drain could be dealth with for the GRu by having a "when you kill someone, your health drain is disabled for 5 seconds", which can allow for combat oriented Hail Mary melee ills. Sydney sleeper, why did they remove the AOe ability? it would have been perfect on a full charge as a team play bonus! Ambassador, simply modify the headshot mechanic to be a "up to certain distance, do crit damage, but after that certain distance do minicrits " as a way to make it more fiar. More importantly put this stat on the Diamondback, so you are actually encouraged to be a gunspy. also, a variant of the Enforcer's "when disguised, XYZ effect" stat for the Diamondback, which is "when disguised, do normal shots/ do not use crit charge" as a way to balance the Diamondback to not be suprise crit shots but a more in your face Gunspy weapon. what do you all think of this?

[@storms888]

Hey! Just found your channel, I really enjoyed the video! I stream TF2 a ton on Twitch and I always try to reach out to fellow creators in the community and support! Keep up the great work! Subscribed! ⛈💙

[@schnozusmaximus9848]

Imagine disregarding the best upside bonk has as a get out of jail free card

[@zachlewis9751]

One thing I’ve always wonder, how would the game feel if Crits themselves were given the Amby nerf?

[@TheSquareEngineer]

Where's the pompson?

[@velocity1852]

I really miss the old sandman. It was literally the only other usable scout melee.

[@crazyaboutnintendo64]

What’s that in the thumbnail? The three classes I commonly play? Oh boy!

[@bmac4]

The last balance patch was actually the buff to Gas Passer and Neon Annihilator, which ended up being an indirect nerf to Axtinguisher which now has even less of a niche Therefore it is the new latest victim

[@quiver5756]

How exactly? The Axtinguisher is still far more reliable than the Neon in practically every situation.

[@skin_rg]

​@@quiver5756not only that, but you're using the Gas Passer over any other secondary which has a cooldown right at spawn. Reality is that the axtinguisher still has something it can do without lots of setup with other weapons.

[@januszpolak254]

Bruh you serious ? Those weapons are still memes and there is 0 reason to use them over Axtinguisher.

[@B.L.U.S]

the bonk works best as a discout deadringer go in, make the sniper cry, leave

[@alex_zetsu]

I can't beleive people think the old sandman was OP, but fully charged body shots (that don't need any skill to aim for the head) was not OP.

[@JeffarryLounder]

They can't seem to get it in their heads that being killed instantly is worse than being stunned. They seem to think being stunned is the worst possible outcome in all of TF2, like it's a virtual warcrime somehow. All the TF2ber propaganda scrambled their brains.

[@Scrapyard24c]

R.I.P. Ullapool Caber

[@isenokami7810]

I haven’t been too keyed into TF2 news specifically because there hasn’t really been that much of it since these last major updates. Aside from bot stuff. So when I saw the thumbnail, I wondered for a bit if Valve had done something like “here, have one more balance update after seven years, but after this it’s official, we’re not changing anything else” and I just hadn’t heard. I mean, I heard Nintendo did that with New Horizons, and I think I’d respect Valve at least a bit more if they came out and said they were done with balance updates rather than leave the Heave Update believers hanging all this time later.

[@CoralCopperHead]

Valve was already on shaky ground selling games that literally don't run on modern operating systems. Now that they've canned support for Win7 while _continuing to sell said unplayable games,_ I've switched to GoG. Not much better, but at least they're not Epic.

[@sizzlyy6298]

You are the goat tftuber of this era

[@justpinklasagna]

I think the Sandman should work like the concussive grenades from Team Fortress classic but with a little bit more damage than the Shortstop shove does the speed of which he regains his ball for it should be changed as well. this could give the weapon a new life.

[@MrBelaska]

Through years,i saw how competitive 6v6 or class 9v9 kinda ruined many weapons what were fun in casual.... I was playing 9v9 a lot too on competitive tf but still i was kinda sad or most likely dissapointed that some weapons were nerfed into oblivion...

[@hotmealdotcomma]

BARTON FINK! BARTON FINK!

[@f145hr3831jr]

The TF2 competitive side of things really started to piss me off when it became obvious they want TF2 to play like Counter Strike and not like TF2. The problem they had with the Base Jumper was Scout not being good against it. Because Scout must be the absolute king of 6s, no one is allowed to have an unlock that makes Scout's job more difficult in any capacity.

[@SolarLight]

Base jumper nerf had more to do with the projectile classes. Scout was one of the only classes that could actually shoot the guy in the air because he's one of the few hitscan classes that doesn't suck on offense specifically. So if anything, it's the exact opposite problem, they didn't want to buff Scouts because Scout dominance is already a thing and they didn't want to make it worse

[@rockowlgamer631]

I will definitely miss the jarate cloud mechanic for the Sydney Sleeper. I still say the amby needed some kind of range nerf whether the spy mains agree with me or not. I do agree that the Diamondback also should've gotten the nerf.

[@JeffarryLounder]

I'm just gonna say it: The sandman was annoying at best, never "overpowered". I've played since 2008 and mained Scout since 2011, the sandman was a fun and rewarding weapon that almost no serious players would ever equip - because the truth is you could get 10x more done with something like the old atomizer than the sandman. The old sandman put your health below a crucial threshold where rockets and various other forms of damage could now one-shot you. Huntsman arrows, close-range rockets, mid-range direct hits, etc. And if you happened to take some chip damage amounting to 10 or more (which is possible from across the map with a pistol btw), you would now be an instant kill to all kinds of other things. I've also been stunned plenty of times, and I never actually found it quite so annoying as other players claimed it was. More often than not you would survive the stun duration if you were smart because you'd be near cover you could duck into, or simply near your team that would defend you. If you were out in the open and alone against a Scout - which is already a bad idea mind you - then the sandman would be at its peak use. AKA only in a situation where you're already at a disadvantage anyway. Oh, and don't even get me started on the bonk nerf lmao. That was genuinely ludicrous. At-least if it was mini-crit to punish taking damage it would stick true to the original design philosophy. The modern day iteration with slowdown can cripple you so bad the enemies you just ran past can catch up to you and finish you off with ease. Although to be fair it's in a better state than on release. On release you had a slowdown effect much similar to the current iteration that was still pretty crippling, but only 5 seconds of use. At-least it retained its 8 second duration.

[@steampunk1902]

Fun fanct the sandman still has the full stun on moonshot on mvm for some wacky reason also the bonk i think its fine most of the time just a few people remenber that you got slowdown and the other half they just bodyblock you just like the old version the base jumper nerf was dumb just because some comp player couldnt hit arishots valve decide to nerf it even tho the weapon was desing to do that and besides the biggest counter to the base jumper always was hitscan weapons but i guess was more easy nerf the weapon than just equip a shotgun

[@simplysmiley4670]

Pretty sure the parachute was and still is banned in 6s, not sure about highlander, but probably also banned there. For reasons of being "unfun", rather then balance.

[@InfinitySevens]

NGL I think the Bonk can still be at least useful as a diet Dead Ringer, something FishStick brought up in his vid iirc.

[@imperialofficerremusblackw8452]

7 years ago..... Wait it's been that long? Damn...

[@moris_Deligod]

Da eviction notice is objectively terrible, but da tech you can pull off wit dem is some of da most fun I have had on heavy in a long time

[@mrstudent9125]

15:45 Actually, it's better than day 1 Ambassador that only had mini crits on headshots 🤓

[@supermudkipz]

I don’t really think Bonk can really be here given how the downside being completely by passable for the most part makes the nerf JI gave it extremely nominal

[@aruan7sp]

I don't consider the Reserve Shooter bad for Pyro, it performs a similar role to the Panic Attack with faster switch, but you trade higher accuracy for -2 clip size. You can still counter bombing soldiers/demos with mini-crits.

[@Blucario90]

You forgot to mention that the reserve shooter used to minicrit all players who were airborne. That allowed it to minicrit players who were jumping. That's why people wanted it nerfed, not so much the pyro thing.

[@yasirfarah9368]

Whose here after the 7th comic came out?

[@FireHydrantVibrator]

The last balance change was this year's airblast patch, making pyro the biggest loser.

[@ssneakyandfriends1626]

on hit: **BLEED**

[@CoralCopperHead]

...Were you not around during the Ambassador's heyday? _Every_ spy main was using it to secure cross-map kills. I was seeing them lined up alongside snipers in their usual spots when it released.

[@WikiThis]

The sandman definitely needed a nerf, but damn, they might as well have removed it from the game with how bad they nerfed it.

[@demfrodegroot7596]

There is actually still a niche for the reserve shooter in pyro, mainly by abusing flamethrower mechanics. By shooting fire at the ground in front of an enemy, then switching to the reserve shooter, shooting, then switching back and puffing as the fire particle leaves the target, you can effectively deal damage with both the degreaser and the reserve shooter at the same time. Lazy Purple even highlighted this combo in his video on the pyro.

[@Bluehoodie_guy]

Righteous bison is a play on holy cow

[@Dmon097]

I don't think it's fair to say that the base jumper was only problematic in comp 6s. I think the main issue with it (and probably the actual reason it got nerfed) was that a player who knew how to use it was very unfun to fight in any environment, not just comp. Sure, 90% of players didn't know how to use it in that way. But if one player knowing how to airstrafe was all it took for them to pubstomp by basically noclipping around the skybox and invalidating every projectile class they fought, I can see why that would be something worth nerfing. And for fighting it as a projectile class, it wasn't as simple as "just getting good", because the old base jumper invalidated one of the core skills that made it possible to be good at airshotting in the first place. Consistently landing airshots requires being able to predict where your target is going to be after your projectile's travel time. Most forms of air mobility in tf2 make you commit to a trajectory, so they can be punished by someone with the skill to make a good prediction. But if the base jumper let you stay far enough away and move fast enough to dodge a projectile after it was fired, there wasn't much a proectile class could do. Predictive shots are basically useless if the target can react faster than the travel time of the projectile. I'm not saying it deserved to be nerfed as hard as it was, I'm just saying there were probably more factors than comp 6s involved in valve's decision to rebalance a weapon that could almost complely hard counter two classes with very minimal counterplay.

[@Cysco8575]

It's ironic how valve nerfed some weapons that needed skill to use or where good at combos like the Amby or Sandman but super easy to use and high reward no risk weapons where left untouched like the Scorch Shot, Phlog (i know they took away the healing buff but didn't affect it as long as you have a Medic up your ass) and Diamondback.

[@pyrofromtf2]

I am Pyro. Why am I still becoming real...

[@TrueChaosLord]

Damn, pyro just unlocked a new weapon called depression

[@pyrodontcutoffsoldiershand2746]

tru

[@liliataneva5874]

I eat crayons

[@pyrofromtf2]

@liliataneva5874 same.