TF2 - Grenade Launcher VS Iron Bomber

I've been trying out the Iron Bomber again and it feels like I'm doing more damage with this weapon that I with stock. I decided to do an experiment and compare some of my gameplay stats to try and see if one is definitively better than the other.
Sigsegv’s video:
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My last video on the Iron Bomber:
• TF2 - Thoughts on the ...
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[@bipolarprobe]

The weird thing about the iron bomber to me is that, after a lot of use of the weapon, it started to feel like it's just the way that stock should be. Stock feels like the sidegrade to me after getting used to the fuse time and rolling because those things feel like they're more in my control using the iron bomber. I can plan better around blocking off chokepoints and taking out sentries just because I don't have to feel like I'm guessing at where the grenades will be when they blow.

[@yabox]

Same

[@yiy8030]

How does this how 600 likes but only one comment? Wait…

[@riri-pk1gb]

oooo

[@elithefennecfox2351]

Stock has 6 barrels because in the early days demo had 6 pipes

[@theansweris421]

FALSE. The stock has 1 barrel and 6 cylinders (like a revolver). The iron bomber just has 4 barrels and 4 chambers (like a double barrel shotgun, but x2).

[@iamninja435]

no

[@harryvpn1462]

Blaze Valve nevers changes models, thats why the stock grenade launcher has 6 barrels and 4 pipes and Loch N' Load has 2 barrels and 3 pipes

[@theansweris421]

@@harryvpn1462 The barrel is the thing that projectiles come out of. The stock grenade launcher has one barrel, but six cylinders, like a revolver.

[@TheOwlMan8850]

It's actually because the demoman is drunk as fuck and can't see how many pills can fit in his guns

[@smiteey]

hi I'm a high level competitive demo in North America, and I have a decent understanding of some TF2's mechanics. The reason almost every competitive demoman uses Iron Bomber is because of what you basically said, you get free damage by playing the exact same way. At medium to long ranges, anything you are trying to direct will most likely still take damage because the rollers will land right beside them and will det faster. As for some of the mechanics you mentioned in the video that you were unsure about. The reason if feels like you hit more directs is because the Iron Bomber has a much more consistent flight path. the Stock Grenade Launcher will randomly select what direction the pill is facing when launched (sideways for example) and will randomly spin it as well. This makes it so Stock Grenades will have much more inconsistent ranges and will shoot off to the side much more than the Iron Bomber, due to air resistance that you briefly mentioned in the video. It might not seem like much when you look at it, but it's definitely enough to just barely miss people at medium or longer ranges. EDIT: So when I wrote this comment, this was the understanding that the tf2 community had about how the Iron Bomber functioned at the time. Now, 2 and a half years later, it is commonly understood that that iron bomber does in fact have a larger projectile. It's possible it could have always been this way or changed at some point over that last couple years because of some bug, because if you watch other videos going over the subject, the way the Iron Bomber's projectile actually gets it's increased size, it's done strangely in the code compared to other items. I won't go too into detail about this, but I think it's a good example of learning to take things with a grain of salt, as well as the weirdness of TF2, which I know I'll be learning from. There is a lot of old info in forum posts or in other areas of the internet that was once true or functionally true about TF2, but with a game that has been out for this long that has been changed so drastically over time with updates, it's inevitable that things will change, bugs will arise, and our understanding will grow. Functionally we knew the Iron Bomber was easier to hit with, and our reasons for believing so might have been correct, but not the whole picture, or maybe even entirely wrong from the beginning, but we'll keep learning and playing because we love TF2. A fun, little known fact to many casual players though regarding player hitboxes, is that there are separate player hitboxes for projectiles (example: rockets) and hitscan (example: shotgun). Hitscan hitboxes are fairly accurate to the model of the class, while ALL projectile hitboxes are a rectangular box surrounding the model, that is locked in position so the flats are facing the North, South, East and West sides of the map and they are all the exact same size for every weapon and class. This means that the scout has lots of open and free space in his projectile hitbox where there is only air, while the heavy is big enough to slightly stick out of it. This also means, that if you are being shot at from a diagonal angle in relation to the map, then your projectile hitbox will be roughly 50% bigger.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

"while ALL projectile hitboxes are a rectangular box surrounding the model, that is locked in position so the flats are facing the North, South, East and West sides of the map and they are all the exact same size for every weapon and class (...) if you are being shot at from a diagonal angle in relation to the map, then your projectile hitbox will be roughly 50% bigger." Holy shit, I didn't know that last bit. I know the projectile hitbox was just one big box, but I had assumed the projectile hitbox turned with the player model. o_O

[@Clockster_]

Game scientists... O_o

[@bojackhorseman4176]

Huh. Seems like I gotta try and hit people diagonally more often then.

[@gendalfgray7889]

@@TF2CrunchyFrog THATS WHY TF2 SO LAGGY. WHY ON EARTH SO MANY HITBOXES???

[@daennoe935]

And... after all, (and sorry for the timing of my comment), which primary do you recommend (according to your experience)? Because... as a casual player, I tend to play way better with the Iron Bomber than with Stock, but still I've tried to go with the later for practicing and getting better.

[@kingor8445]

All the stock high level demos are demos who no longer play and played in the pre iron bomber era

[@herpydepth1204]

“I’m assuming they’re (hitboxes) similar” How times have changed

[@temptedbyfood7526]

how times have changed

[@lwsixo2726]

How times has changed

[@EnmaDarei]

I just think the iron bomber is better suited to players that like to go for direct hits and play more aggressively, and that's kinda the way you play, so I'm not surprised you see a better performance switching to this weapon.

[@kohffeee]

Yeah the advantage of Iron Bomber is just the Fuse time and its easy to hit enemies at once or twice shot.But I still prefer Stock Gun cause it suit's me more and the fact I love Stock Gun of Demo is because It's easy for me to predict where will the enemy will go If I miss once I can do again and I will ensure that I will hit him.Stock has bouncy grenade which is the disadvantage of it but I use that as an advantage I use to bounce it on the wall and it it miss the advantage will be the Fuse time , you know when Spy pop out to assist his team and he didn't notice the grenade on the ground.I found that more easy to kill rather than Iron Bomber.

[@222MovieMan]

Agressitivity has nothing to do with the weapon itself. You can play however you want with stock aswell and it’s still in the end up to personal preferences.

[@TCLG6x6]

its better for people who only hit shots and miss shots, since you get a free fucking sticky if oyu miss. it should do less splash damage imo

[@clupel1111]

TV aggression

[@ninjaassassin27]

Exactly. I don't like gambling with my pipes. The iron bomber removes that element.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

If every new weapon had to be utterly, massively different in its mechanism from every other weapon that class has, Demoman would only have maybe two grenade launchers, Soldier maybe three rocket launchers, and the Heavy only a single minigun. And everyone would be whining why Valve didn't add more weapons, yet every new weapon concept would be insanely difficult to balance against the existing ones.

[@Toofty]

CrunchyFrog I would love this but I know I'm in the minority :)

[@elronman]

You must have missed the Uber update where everyone got slightly different statted weapons. They were all so abysmal that most of them got massive overhauls to how they worked making them noticibly different. Absolutely lazy update a lot of people were ticked off. Yes toothy you''re totally right. We barely even have any "sligthly different' weapons anymore.

[@hughmungus99]

_"toothy"_

[@nikolasbarkauskis7220]

lol

[@mitchell9959]

Natasha and Tomislav are significantly different

[@kannatheweeb8836]

Iron bomber: easy airshots. Stock: fires at a general direction where a enemy was. Somehow hits with a roller. I swear it alway happens.

[@mrkevinkillercrafterminecr895]

Kanna Kumai yep.

[@thememer7039]

Sometimes I Get A Kill With A Roller With Stock

[@Niiue]

Kanna The Weeb stock is essentially "oops, *accidental* splash damage!"

[@NoName-fz5ed]

Iron Bomber: good aim means it lands right next to the enemy and instantly booms ez clap

[@neeevirus]

"Kanna The Weeb" I've seen that name before.... *HOLOLIVE FLASHBACKS* *Wait you know tf2?*

[@mike4407]

If you miss with the iron bomber, the grenade won't roll too far from your target and will explode quicker and you might catch the target with the blast. You can say that it's more forgiving with misses that stock. Overall it's personal preference.

[@st4tictf2]

Yep, I find the upsides (increased blast radius) of the stock pretty much too situational, so I tend to use the Iron to catch them even if I miss. Stock rollers do no damage b/c people can react to it and avoid them, making them useless.

[@alceusrydan6237]

Yeah that's why iron bomber is kind of a crutch weapon like the scorch shot for pyro because even if you miss, you can still deal damage with the roller. I started to train myself to use stock more to not depend on rollers getting kills for me. It also made my pipes easier to hit for some reason. Idk stock > iron bomber

[@vermin4275]

@@alceusrydan6237 Not really, the Iron bomber is much better for direct hit playstyles, because you don't have to factor in random TF2 bullshit physics to hit your mark, the stock is better when going for splash damage.

[@blob5907]

so you like to miss more often?

[@kamemelia]

i think this is kinda like tomislav vs stock, use the one that suits your playstile, they're kinda the same

[@kappalul9203]

Camile well said mate, no more no less

[@dirkdirk1467]

kappa lul the tomislav is a direct upgrade tho

[@thornsgaming1741]

Pear Shack W R O N G

[@queencyrys6309]

Pear Shack trust me, those extra shots per second mean everything in close quarters

[@BagelBrain]

Horrible misuse of commas.

[@BenjaminSteber]

3:04 3-pointer from downtown.

[@Toofty]

xD

[@theultimategamer3051]

xD

[@samsonn5446]

Bang !!! Ray Allen wins the game.

[@360bunker9]

also the gun shooting sounds like a basketball

[@Eddie-yv1ix]

Banngggg bannnggg

[@LASAGNA_LARRY]

YEARS later, we finally learn that the iron bomber grenades straight up have a hitbox 9 times as big as the stock grenade launcher grenades. lmao.

[@minnow9590]

That’s the main reason I use stock, it helps me get better at hitting pipes without thinking I’m using a crutch.

[@ironraccoon3536]

@@minnow9590 yea same

[@waitressroyal]

it really isn't that much bigger tbh. even if that wasn't a thing, you would still prolly be able to hit more pipes as they don't go as far.

[@johnt3606]

@@minnow9590 im actually good at both but I only use iron bomber because I find it cool and even bought it

[@Captain_Toasty]

@BradynLee09 AKTCHUALLY thE IrOn bOmbEr OnlY hAs A 100% (2x) lArgEr hItbOx!!1!1!

[@StickMaster500]

Personally, I like to use the Stock Grenade Launcher when taking out Engineer nests and groups of enemies and use the Iron Bomber for 1v1 fights due to the the smaller explosion radius that the Iron Bomber has which can be the difference between getting or not getting a kill through splash damage.

[@jeffdaniel772]

why do i see you everywhere

[@ThomasKingGaming]

Bro u are the first guy I see a comment on on any tf2 video

[@buckethattrick9443]

That would explain why the iron bomber is so popular in sixes--almost no Engineers and a ton of 1v1s.

[@Armokogames]

i saw you on a bill wurtz piano video aswell! you're everywhere!

[@whitegradient5182]

StickMaster500 aand your here again

[@archiespeople3219]

I know I've said this a lot (especially in this channel) but I run the iron bomber and scot res.

[@brodyatkinson1960]

Scot is no

[@soopcanwastaken]

I like this combo too.

[@pineapplejuice1109]

The load out from heaven

[@alexandredesouza3692]

Why? I've never tried those together. Is there a benefit?

[@pineapplejuice1109]

It's good when used correctly

[@imcintyre01]

the iron bomber feels heavy when you shoot it. the regular grenades (which I pretty much never use), feel really light. the cannon ball surprisingly doesn't feel that heavy.

[@riankek3809]

well their all the same weight but the way their shaped determines things like speed or how far it normally shoots

[@pootisvonpoot1801]

Cannonball feels like a darn weighted balloon when I shoot it.

[@BIadelores]

It's that sound effect which sounds really metallic and robust

[@lukeedwardes6041]

same

[@lukeedwardes6041]

perhaps its the sound?

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

11:41 min LOL, that double-take the RED Engineer did... Turns around, sees a Demoman standing behind him, turns back to his blueprint, suddenly his brain pings him 'hey, that was a BLU Demoman!', he swivels around again to stare at you, wondering you you came from.

[@jaelo1681]

They fixed it already yay

[@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic536]

Stock VS Iron Bomber Which one wins? Loose Cannon

[@red_d7912]

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ anti-wm1pyro , anti-demoknight. More damage if you play right

[@red_d7912]

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ but if pyro with pocket med and with flog? Or pyro stay near corner?

[@red_d7912]

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ he is near you, and he go to you, you cant go away

[@chefnova8531]

@@red_d7912 to be honest phlog pyro are so easy to sticky trap they are so thirty. but apart your class (in your scenario) is in a 2v1 situation so in a weaker position thats normal but you have something called a team, retreat with your sticky or a charge and place a sticky trap in case. a sniper a spy can kill the medic or the pyro, plus all projectile class can spam at the pyro cuz he have phlog and so cant reflect. (if he is near you and kill you its normal its a ambush class who perform better in close quarter) any combo in tf2 can be beat if not its you and your team faults.

[@HumanoidCreatur]

​@@red_d7912 I belive your right, mate. If you know how to double donk constantly , The Loose Cannon can be the best weapon in the game.

[@bokij8087]

Now buy an unusual iron bomber :)

[@seiler3485]

Yeah, somehow Valve nailed unusual effects on the Iron Bomber, it just feels so clean and centered on the barrels ^^

[@spidertopus]

Do it, you won't

[@MegaThenman]

Or just a strange festive one with no skin, they look lovely too, and won't break the bank

[@kylelawson221]

sold my unusual iron bomber. R I P

[@d1want34]

Im using a strange with statclock.. Lovinf it

[@sechions]

2 years later we finnaly know that iron bomber has a giant hit box

[@BoyusGoyus]

0:24 lmao

[@harrogeorge7878]

And it has the exact same physics model otherwise

[@sircatangry5864]

Now that video is useless, STOCK GONNA BE META AGAIN.

[@sircatangry5864]

@@mrfoxyzin58 Yes i use it still lmao.

[@babablacksphee]

I would say stock with stickies Iron bomber with hybrid knight or sticky jumpers

[@doubled6490]

This. Iron bomber is better for bombing while stock is better for spam and stickyspam for bombing.

[@matthewnickolas4706]

@@doubled6490 I never use Iron with stock sticky and there was no concius decision about it... I somehow felt that with Iron I have better controll over who where and when I attack, therefore I don't need to stickyspam as a backup and just switched to hybrid knight or jumper for mobility. Meanwhile Stock can be used much more creatively with bouncing your pills around corners and have better potential at getting random kills with spam...

[@mightyfire8257]

@@matthewnickolas4706 Same thing

[@seiler3485]

I feel like I play more of a wall than anything using stock; for example on Badwater I most likely stick to my team mates, especially the soldier- and/or heavy-MeeM pairs, dish out decent damage and always mind the cart. When playing with the Iron Bomber, I go for the more 'sneaky' ways, for example the house on Badwater's 1st to 2nd point or around the corner above last, you get the idea. I get into 1vs1 scenarios more often and result in targetting health pack locations, to patch myself up and finish weakened enemies. So, without an obvious reason, I play more DPS-centered with stock and pick-centered with Iron. :D

[@thatonecrusader7209]

me : ( looks at iron bomber nerf and this video at the same time ) olso me: welp this is fucking useless

Iron bomber is great in competetive if you don't have sticks (am talking about rolles) but stock is better for spamming chokes (more splash radious). I was using stock but when i got my strange spec killstreak ironbomber i started to use it more becouse it suited my playstyle to dealing lots off damage

[@danielhernandez2575]

Łoziak Your sticks should be enough to cover chokes that it makes stock kind of irrelevant.

[@222MovieMan]

It’s all about how you play yes. And what you’re saying right now is you only use it for splash damage basically, and that you rely only on your pipes and not stickies. That’s where people say if you’re inclose combats and people say that the splash damage is low and the just roll away those are the people that doesn’t use stickies. You shouldn’t rely on pipes for most parts, and if you do and choke those pipes then yes the iron bomber is a much better weapon to use. But stickies you use 80% of the times because pipes are a last resort, and when there’s a stalemate and you spam chokes the stock is better because you never really ise pipes a ton.

TV i usually have some traps laying around or i don't have time to reload stickis (or i jusy want to get gut with pipes)

[@sharpsightkillmemes2902]

*THATS A LOT OF DAMAGE*

[@someguythatusestheinternet7810]

@@danielhernandez2575 not when you want more mobility with the tide Turner....

[@CrustyTheMoist]

I love how the iron bombs can also be used as a sticky bomb in a few ways. The lack of rolling allows you to spam them at the floor, and you can use them to grenade jump.

[@TheJosiahTurner]

TOOFTY! RELOAD!!! PLEASE!!

[@KommissarBanx]

gum ball I used to manually reload all the time. Fuck auto reload. That animation was annoying as shit with spy and scout.

[@ThePhantom4516]

KommissarBanx you shouldn't be paying attention to viewmodels while playing

[@TheJosiahTurner]

gum ball he has it on, he just doesn’t take any time (literally 4 seconds) to reload his GODDAMN LAUNCHER

[@girf4233]

gum ball alright, use the ambassador with auto reload and basic viewmodels, have fun

[@lightlysal]

KILLEKIRAHVI - we all know basic tf2 huds are trash

[@Nassamest]

Turns out iron bomber is broken and the hitbox of the iron bomber's balls is much larger

[@gavaudan2131]

it's not much larger, it's just larger

[@LASAGNA_LARRY]

@@gavaudan2131 It actually is much larger. About 9x the volume of the stock grenade launcher hitbox. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpaTgWOoo9iGZ7M&ab_channel=shounic

[@nourhobbi7588]

Too bad now todat iron bomber loses.

[@aghostlyhat]

imo iron bomber is better for defense because you're meant to hold a point/defend an area, which is what the rollers of the bomber are good for since they don't roll around everywhere and are more consistent, whereas the stock would be better for offense as corners are good for surprising the enemy and for taking out nests

[@skybuprofen9834]

I don’t know. For me, it feels the other way around. Since I’ve been using stock for so long, when I try to use the Iron Bomber, it doesn’t feel right. Honestly, this comes down to personal preference. I’m better with stock, and others may be better with the Iron Bomber.

[@AmBush2048]

Aged like milk, considering the revelation

[@Succer]

The difference between hitting and missing a shot because of the size difference of the hitbox is like 1 pixel. It would never come into play.

[@AmBush2048]

@@Succer it's like three times as large, so yes, it is a big difference

[@Succer]

@@AmBush2048 But the originally hit box is so tiny anyway. It's like the size of a big marble. An ant that's 3 times bigger than another ant is still tiny.

[@DommHavai]

@@Succer Considering that a typical projectile hitbox is 25-37 HU wide, extra 4.7 HU is a massive difference, your target is basically ~15-20% wider and also taller.

[@josephg1125]

@@Succer if it truly almost never matters as you claim why do you have a problem with them fixing it?

[@lloyfirvind3274]

It's like the grenade launcher's echo fighter.

[@lilstjimmy]

I personally love the iron bomber. Being a Demo main, I feel like I was hitting more directs with it. Also, the iron bomber suits a more aggressive playstyle, wanting to kill more people with splash and directs, stock is bettter for area denial. It’s like the difference between a lvl. 3 sentry and a mini-sentry.

[@Net_15]

The video is now outdated lmao.

[@juanstarnotip8122]

Boom! GL>IB just like that.

[@arkron7093]

3:01 I feel bad for that heavy.

[@foxfoxy5490]

Fun fact: iron bomber has the biggest hitbox out of the every projectile Iron bomber have 2x bigger hitbox than stock granade launcher

[@handsomemug3342]

In my opinion, giving the grenade launcher a quicker self-detonate rollers. The iron bomber can deal cheap damage by just having a slow rolling speed, But with the quicker self-detonate rollers the weapon can actually deal the same cheap damage as the iron bomber

[@cavy5457]

There's a reason why most players use the iron bomber when playing online and stock when at LAN : ping. When playing with ping, the iron bomber gives you a bigger margin of error, as it explodes sooner and closer to your target

[@kevin-kq2uv]

The reason I only play with stock is to have some consistency. The likelihood of stock being nerfed is very low while an iron bomber has a better likelihood to be changed. I can keep my gameplay the same and hone that skill of playing

[@MotorcycleCheetah]

Unrelated but I had a weapon idea for Demoman. Name: Loch Ness Landmine Type: Secondary Weapon, Stickybomb Launcher. Clip Size: 6, Ammo Capacity: 24 Pros: - Sensory Detonation, Stickybombs automatically detonate when stuck on a surface in range of an enemy. - No Arm time, Stickybombs are ready to explode the moment they hit the ground. - 20% Faster Reload Speed. Cons: - Sensory Detonation, Stickybombs cannot be manually detonated, and stickybombs destroyed by putting out more than 6, do no damage. - -15% Damage Penalty. - No Random Crits.

[@near5280]

Iron bomber is for bad demos who can't aim regular pills, it's projectiles have a hitbox that are like 3X the size of regular pills. Crutch for bad demos.

[@blusoldier4400]

chill, i use iron bomber cuz fuse time

[@near5280]

@@blusoldier4400 crutch for bad demos, no if ands or buts about it. If you use the iron bomber you're a BAD hitbox abusing demo not worth your scrumpy

[@DFFilmmaker]

@@near5280 facts

[@toaster3082]

ATTENTION: for those who dont know, the iron bombers grenades being 2x larger than stock has been patched

[@arbiterregnant]

Iron Bomber does something that Stock does not for the Hybrid Knight. Easy air time. It is far easier to get airborne with the Iron Bomber due to the grenades staying on the surface they land for a second, allowing for you to jump off it.

[@asdfoifhvjbkaos]

0:46 I REALLY expected you to say something else there

[@absolutelyaverage9949]

In my opinion Iron Bomber is more competetively viable,but stock is more viable in casual because of the spam and rollers on chokes.

[@coryclark9120]

i feel the complete opposite since the grenade launcher pipes last longer and shoot farther with a higher explosion radius they have the potential to hit more people with 1 pipe vs iron bomber where in casual its a clusterfuck and you dont really engage in far range battles and more close range ones

[@juuzang]

c0ry actually in comp, your stickies are more used as spam and can reach a further area than any pipe, and the iron bomber is great for all playstyles for a comp demo, as it is a more direct-hit and skill oriented pipe launcher, which can cause a lot of dmg at the high skill level of comp.

[@222MovieMan]

John Chooran But then again, your stickies are you first weapon to use everytime with it’s massive damage dealing. You only use pipes when you know you can hit the target, and then it doesn’t matter if it’s stock or iron bomber. I personally prefer stock because with the argument I just stated where I only use stickies for most parts, it’s better to spam with stock when in stalemate.

[@emirwattabor6991]

use it with a shield and sword(or bottle, in my experience) for hybridknighting. The iron bomber's reduced fuse and increased predictability allows for pipe jumps, great when you lack an actual stickybomb launcher.

[@ThatD1spynser]

Shounic covered the hitboxes, and demo likely is so drunk that he forgot that he can load 6 pills into stock

[@desertfalcon1539]

weeeeeell, now that we got the vid about the broken iron bomber and the larger bounding boxes, i understand why people use the IB and i myself started to use it, and yes i'm hitting more pipes

[@poopyjoe7511]

6:12 he realizes those second 2

[@facemcshooty6602]

Now that we learn about the bigger hitbox This video is obscure

[@sumdumkun1536]

How about Minigun VS Tomislav? Which one do you prefer?

[@pootisbirbz7255]

Well... Tomislav is for long range... While the minigun is for medium range.

[@notalive5479]

Not quite. The Tomislav is for aggressive playstyles where the heavy will find himself needing to stay mobile while also keeping his mini-gun ready. The faster spin-up time helps greatly in this, because surprise attacks can be reacted to more quickly, the heavy can be more quiet, and the heavy can spin it up while bunny-hopping to stay more mobile than the stock could, while not losing attack power. I would talk about the accuracy bonus, but in my time playing the tomislav I've never noticed it coming into play. The stocks greater damage output makes it better for situations where the heavy is spun up more often and/or in plain sight. Lets say the heavy is sticking to the cart, then the stock's advantages are more useful. For some examples, if a particularly aggressive heavy is trying to roam around closer to enemy territory, he will find the tomislav more suitable for its speed, quietness, and faster reaction times. If the heavy is staying near allies and the objective, than movement and reaction speed aren't as necessary, so the stocks superior damage output will most times come out on top. tl;dr the tomislav is superior in roaming and playstyles away from your team, while the stock is superior in situations nearby your team, or otherwise staying consistently spun up.

[@sebastiaandejong4378]

Quality content bro, love how the tf2 community tries to keep the game alive and flowing!

[@SkylordSweddy]

With the Iron Bomber, the user has an easier time predicting where missed pills are going to detonate, but so has the target. Also, enemies have an easier time fleeing against an opponent with the Iron Bomber, because the bombs won't continue rolling toward them. Just thought I'd mention it.

[@RdTrler]

Fleeing enemies may have an easier time of eluding an Iron Bomber's lack of bounce, but fleeing enemies also tend to be missing health. Fleeing enemies also steadily do less and less damage with bullets and rockets as they escape the Demoman. Enemies may also have an easier time predicting where a missed pill will detonate, but then, you know they're predicting this, so this makes enemies more predictable too.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

True, but on the other hand the bombs won't also bounce and roll past them if you miss.

[@ducksi1]

I’ve been playing with the loose cannon, and I’ve found it does up to 150 damage up close with no donk, enough to kill half the classes, and with the donk, could probably kill a soldier and severely weaken a heavy. Thoughts on the weapon?

[@Prince_Echo]

Or here's a shocking idea: ITS JUST PREFERENCE. Some people are bound to aim better with one than with the other, IF there's a difference. aswell as that whole Team balance thing and all those variables.

[@seaI.]

Extra stat for the Iron Bomber @Toofty forgot to mention: When fighting enemies practically point blank, you could take a lot of self damage. With the Iron Bomber’s decreased explosion radius (-15% to be specific), you take less of the self damage. This comes into play a lot.

[@urmomonion1553]

i highly doubt that the iron bombers smaller explosion radius takes effect with self damage and i assume it uses the same explosion mechanics as the direct hit where the explosion radius penalty dosent apply to self damage

[@komi_neselimsky]

I do not use the iron bomber because it is broken. By the way, it has already been fixed?

[@raul1476]

No and it will never be fixed because this game is abandoned 😔

[@komi_neselimsky]

@@raul1476 o(╥﹏╥)

[@kurboe283]

I love how the investigation goes through the exact procedure for an IB science internal assessment/experiment

[@almostshay]

Actually the higher sample size of attack wouldnt skew your data unless your sample size was low. Because you didnt ONLY use the grenade launchers, however, there are compounding variables that really put the results of this video into question. Taking Stats has made me a cynical asshole. Never again.

[@Matt-wc7bl]

You might have heard of the iron bomber having easier to predict pipes, this is a real thing. Sigsegv and others have made great videos about this and it is echoed by many competitive players. Given the same scenarios every single game, the weapons would practically perform the same. Its just flat out that you have more predictable pipes with the iron bomber. Other than the air resistance explanation, the stock pipes have a weird sort of curve to the mid air arc, the iron bomber doesn't have this kind of arc, thus it has more predictability. It is definitely more consistent, It's not a myth.

[@OGXenos]

No, it is a myth. Testing has shown at most a deviation of a few millimeters, which is practically identical to that of the Iron Bomber. Competitive players are experiencing a self-fulfilling placebo where they believe it is more consistent, and thus when they get consistent results due to their own experience, they believe it is the weapon instead of themselves. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3TJkpmCqrGgr5o

[@NoSTs123]

After i got the iron bomber as an unlock i used it allways with no exceptions today i tried the grenade launcher and did not hit a single pipe (i got more than 1k hours in tf2 )

[@proffnanners]

I have just starting playing for the first time since 2009. I was playing miserably. Starting watching Toofty and am now seeing a massive improvement in my play! Thank you!

[@xyn1de660]

I bet that they won't add an australium iron bomber Edit: Just make the stock have 6 ammo, and 24 reserve ammo

[@thelegendarycaboose9193]

1:03 that soldiers rag doll was perfect

[@gmawesome1]

I do hope someday we could repeat this experiment but with a greater variety of maps, gamemodes, and including the 6s format. In addition, I do hope valve changes the stats of the Iron Bomber to make it more of a sidegrade rather than upgrade. One Idea is to make the pills unreflectable or harder to reflect, have a slower projectile speed, and do more damage (on direct hit) the farther the pill was launched and less damage if the pill hits directly on a closer target (similar to the crusader's crossbow.).

[@MartinPurathur]

Kaboom910 no.

[@gmawesome1]

Nitram PlaysGames Please elaborate.

[@MartinPurathur]

Kaboom910 I just feel that it really is a sidegrade. Not an upgrade. It is just up to your playstyle. It might feel like an upgrade or a downgrade depending on how you play.

[@gmawesome1]

Nitram PlaysGames The thing is you don't need or seldom need to change your playstyle to use the iron bomber. This makes it too similar to stock to make it a sidegrade. Not to mention it allows demoman to do more damage than stock, which makes it an upgrade. The iron bomber is like the Third Degree. The Third Degree is an upgrade rather than a sidegrade from stock with little to no difference in playstyle

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

Iron Bomber is not an upgrade to stock. Why do people keep repeating that nonsense? It depends on the situation and what you want to do. Fighting an enemy Scout 1v1? Iron Bomber is better, as the grenades stay put and can be placed one in front and one behind the Scout so that he runs into them even if he dodges you direct hits. Trying to destroy a sentry nest behind the corner or inside a shed? Stock grenade launcher with its bouncing pills and larger explosion radius is better suited.

[@jackhumphries1087]

The reason I use the iron bomber over stock is because one time right at the start of a comp match I caused a team wipe with it when my team rolled out to mid

[@greenbar2888]

The nuanced differences between any two TF2 weapons is surprisingly more faceted and interesting than Overwatch's entire character roster.

[@frank.medgyesi]

Someone: NO YOU CAN'T USE THE IRON BOMBER THE STOCK LAUNCHER DOES WAY MORE DAMAGE. Me: haha iron bomber goes deep boom

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

I like the Iron Bomber because It covers that "quick explosion" role that stickies usually fill, it frees up my secondary slot for a shield for hybrid knight or a sticky jumper when I get one..

[@arnuvmn]

The time when people switched to the Iron Bomber was shortly after MYM, and the competitive players you chose that use stock quit before MYM. The people in your list of Iron Bomber users ALL used stock before MYM. So this comparison is invalid, as every top level demoman is using the Iron Bomber now.

[@kerbonaut2059]

Meanwhile now: _Iron Bomber is not _*_effectively_*_ a direct upgrade, it _*_is_*_ a direct upgrade due to the projectile size being doubled. There is a clear benefit that is not there on any other launcher that enables it to fulfill its functions objectively better than stock._

[@win32prog]

I don't really have anything unique to say, other than me using the iron bomber. soo... I hope you keep do what your doing! I love your video essays and I think its insane how much effort you put in.

[@knifetheirishman8976]

The Iron bomber is my favorite weapon to use in comp. It is just a better weapon due to how easy it is to control and how most more likely it is to combo your rollers and direct hits. The weapon in general does have flaws compared to stock. Like not being able to dish out anywhere near as much group damage.

[@SqwimpyTF]

I think stock is better because of this example Situation A. Your a demo a scout comes around the corner you miss 2 of your pipes you hit A direct after the scout dodges a little bit he back pedals into one of your pipes it explodes causing splash damage killing him Or... Situation B. You have the iron bomber scout comes around the corner you miss 2 pipes blah blah blah you hit a direct But this time the pipes explode before the scout back pedals causing him to get away You don't know how many times Stock has saved me form opponents that were retreating because the fuse was long so that's why I use the grenade launcher over the iron bomber

[@700killerkid]

Host_timescale has an effect on physics. In half-life for example, falling with host_timescale at 0.1, you'll take more fall damage since it speeds up the physics too. It's not just a straight slowmo/fast forward. Hope this helps :) Edit: I use the iron bomber because it's view model seems smaller so cleaner screen for me :)

[@carteriffic1681]

Hey, that downside of the stock? Just use minimized view models. It’s so tiny! Just scroll through the advanced setting, and I hope you notice this to improve your awesome gameplay!

[@pickledjho6879]

This man made a full research paper about the iron bomber and grenade launchet

[@Lukman52]

I believe that Iron Bomber pipes have a slightly bigger direct hit hitbox, though I'm not 100% sure

[@zthandrapus.t5685]

The iron bomber is actually incredibly useful for facing a scout 1 on 1. The pseudo-sticky rollers you lay down can really screw up the jumps of a scout when he back-jumps. I've often caught a scout totally off-guard when he jumps backwards after I've piped him; he totally forgot about the roller at his feet and ended up killing himself after retreating.

[@SageManeja]

The reasson people hit more with the iron bomber isn't how fast the projectile goes, but the more straight arc it has.

[@kipptt]

Iron bomber: helps you with precise hits Stock: idk man i just threw a couple at the point and killed half of em'

[@chaospaypal1220]

Dumbledore is dominating teatime. Sounds great, and something Dumbledore would do.

[@mmddkk6500]

5:38, that shadow

[@LTwerewolf]

With the distance chart one is measuring how far until it hits the ground, the other is measuring how far until explosion on a flat surface. because the iron bomber doesn't roll nearly as far, it changes the speed quite noticeably.

[@MrPort]

The reason why I like to use the Iron Bomber is because its like the best possible combination of Demoman's kit. Pipes but they can act as stickies when needed. Somewhat weak stickies, mind. But its enough to throw someone off. This frees up my secondary slot for a shield or the sticky jumper. Also, the model is pretty good and the sound is also cathartic.

[@CraftyyFruit]

The sound of shooting the iron bomber also feels stronger. So psychologically it gives you more confidence that you do a lot of damage with your shots.

[@spike6749]

-Stock looks sexier tbh -It feels way more rewarding to hit this oblong pills than plain metal balls. -Being able to use your surroundings to get a pill right where you want it via wall or ceiling is fantastic. -Aussie version which is personally my favorite aussie because of the wood and gold mixture -Blast radius is larger so it's good for crowds and rolling towards such crowds -Using the iron bomber makes you less relient on stickies thus a lack of sticky use at close range which than leads to a TON of reloading mid fight -Using stock forces you to use stickies to control the battle field and close off areas to make movement more predictable which is an extremely valuable skill for a projectile based class -You need to rely on directs more which force you to improve -They roll much further so you can do more damage from further away which is made easier by the larger blast radius -I paid for a strange specialized grenade launcher In my opinion the iron bomber feels more like a way to avoid learning to use stickies in close quarters, hitting more consistent directs, and forces you to be less creative with the way you are shooting your pills around the environment to take out clever enemies and nests These are just my thoughts and I definitely see the upsides of the irony bomber and it mostly just comes down to play style and which one looks cooler. I saw an extreme lack of people standing up for stock and low effort reasoning for why you should stick with stock. This is for those that want to keep with stock but are pressured by meta and opinion. This is in no way an attack on the iron bomber. I love it a lot too! Thanks!❤️

[@bigbrowski410]

I think the last clip is all of TF2 perfectly summarized

[@realpika954]

Who else is here after the Iron Bomber bugfix?

[@icarus3874]

Some people say that Iron Bomber's projectiles have a bigger hitbox than the stock because the projectile is round, which can slightly increase the change to hit an enemy who you might miss the hit at , compared to the stock cylinder shape projectile.

[@Ro_Yoshi]

I like stock just cause rollers are funny when you get a kill with em and getting directs feel a lot more deserved

[@Boomblox5896]

I like to think that the Demoman stashes bottles of beer in the extra two slots in his launcher.

[@Niiue]

iron bomber is ok at taking out sentries. not nests, just single sentries. it’s also nice and easy to get directs.

[@pixelperfect9111]

You mentioned it but i also wanted to add that the risk of getting less splash damage brings the want to miss less and it almost trains the player in a way to be as accurate as possible. Later i feel thing might switch due to style. As a scout player it does feel like they hit you with iron bomber projectiles especially when your up close.

[@AaronMk91]

Couple things I could suggest about the Iron Bomber, realized they were stupid, but will share anyways to toss them out: 1) Perhaps added knockback? No, that's the loose canon. 2) Ironsights? It's got those. So something with aim? But the grenade launcher has iron sights to adjust aim for distance and altitude and stuff so it would be unfair to give it to one and not the other, besides; the stock grenade launcher would probably have the better iron sights feature...

[@ruthkale148]

So the iron bomber is better? Toofty: Yes'nt

[@evandurham8908]

Shounic had a good video on Iron bomber having a bigger hitbox, however this has allegedly been fixed. The iron bomber was a victim of source spaghetti, legitimately having a bigger hitbox Personally i prefer the iron bomber for that shorter fuse and for the ability to miss without missing

[@boi4055]

And now he knows the truth about the iron bomber and it’s bigger hit box

[@tofulish8998]

The iron bomber is for combination with other weapons because of it's potential, I use it to substitute for a sticky jump when I am using a different secondary.