TF2: The State of the Workshop

[@okaychud]

Going back to this video a year later, and I find it quite hilarious that certain creators have twisted the narrative to shift all the blame on Zesty and victimize themselves to distract people from their faults. I also find it interesting that they have now doubled down on their hostilities against the community itself blaming "stupid voters" and "commenters" when something doesn't go their way... whilst also falling back on them for "support" whenever convenient. It just seems like these workshop creators simply... don't care about this game or its community. It's a matter of pure irony, that they have become like the company they say they despise.

[@TheGuyWhoSaysHello]

Hello 👋 😊

[@Pangrease]

​@@TheGuyWhoSaysHelloname checks out

[@whiskeytango9040]

I know there's a "no hat" mod but what I'd love is a "Artstyle only" mod.

[@caingamin2]

Yeah they could make it filter out items that arent good and keep the rest visible

[@lempii7092]

Well there is one, it's called "no hats mod"

[@M0D776]

@@lempii7092 did you actually read the comment? It already mentioned that mod

[@lempii7092]

@@M0D776 Yes I did

[@AlphaExtraction]

Maybe not just "Artstyle Only", it could be extended to "Hat Blacklist"

[@RichterOvertime]

Seems like some of the things we've agreed on in the past got iterated into this vid, I'm glad to see you taking the fight to the street so to say. Great work as always Zesty

[@blockwearingman]

yoh hello richter overtime, big fan

[@themechbuilder6171]

hello richer overtime, richter*

[@JPCollector]

man... you like this guy?

[@NessRobloxian]

yes

[@renaissanceman4054]

we need more obesity cosmetics

[@sinaborji4648]

Pyrocynical is that you?

[@TwunnyPhaiv]

Honestly, the state of the workshop hits me so hard personally because TF2 is actually one of the main reasons I got into 3D modeling as a hobby, with hope to make it a full-time career. The fact that community members could actually make contributions, not just to a game they love but to one with such an insanely unique and well fleshed out artstyle, just blew my mind. But nowadays, even though I have the technical skills to create items for the workshop, I have less motivation than ever before to actually contribute to my favorite game. I just know that anything I put genuine effort into will always be passed over for some wacky, festive shit created by xX_RecognizableName_Xx or Sellout69420.

[@faceless2302]

That's why you have to work even harder. It's not fair and it's not easy, but it's about upholding your own personal values and doing what you think is right.

[@loltheno]

glad to know we're on the same page, ex-reg.

[@thelazersofa]

it sucks as beginners like you is gonna get lots of hate because "they tried", the comments people get now days seams crazy to me now. what used to be "funny hats" is "Ugly hats" and what is "very creative" is seen as "Boring and effortless". seeing some of my creative hats as boring is funny to me, as some was me trying to step into a untouched field/idea people hasn't seen before, but it all comes with a price in 2022. lots of people don't understand that saying "bad" can be part of a good feedback, but if they don't leave any creative suggestions of feedback that would improve what you have then it all can be seen as very unmotivating. don't let the mean comments get to you and talk with people with experience.

[@TwunnyPhaiv]

@@faceless2302 yeah that's true.

[@seronymus]

Same here :( remember that old adage though "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." if we don't fill the niche, then darkness will.

[@reagansido5823]

1:23 "we may reject an item if we feel it deviates too far from the tone of TF" Lmao

[@RandomRyan]

Sadly they aren’t doing that anymore :’(

[@maxwellsterling]

"Clearly the art style has evolved over the years" Sorry Valve, I think you missed a D somewhere.

[@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin]

I remember a few points from a few of your streams The fact that valve goes to the same people to put in as little effort as possible is just baffling to me because of how little effort it already takes to support the game They just need to extend their hands to a few extra creators and have common fashion sense in order to perfect their game Well that’s half the problem

[@bobograndman]

It’s not as baffling when you realise, nobody really works on Tf2. It’s probably 2-3 people who care at all, so they update the game whenever they have spare time. So since it’s probably one guy with half an hour they kind of need to go to the same people for cosmetics to use. Otherwise it would take even longer to release crates which would upset valve themselves since there’s no income. This is also why we don’t get any major updates. I’m convinced that there is one “in the works” but it’s been in the works for the past 3 years because Jim the programmer will work on it for 30 minutes every month. The solution is the same with everything else, the game needs more developers. But that’s not going to happen

[@baglespelledwrong8159]

ratio

[@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin]

@@bobograndman agreed

[@evilriceplate2590]

i think they don't just need extended arms THEY NEED AT LEAST NEW ONES

[@mame9562]

@@baglespelledwrong8159 fail ratio

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

As an artist myself the messages from those modelers made my skin crawl. I draw and produce art for my job, but i am, at minimum, trying new things and working to get better at my craft. The way they justify themselves in their mediocrity is honestly heartbreaking. You can find a way to make art your job while still having passion for it but they have completely lost it, it breaks my heart. I hope they see this video and come to their senses.

[@DuskEalain]

As a fellow artist I think what has happened is far too many people see creative work as a "get rich quick" scheme, or just simply don't want to face the fact quality work takes time and effort. All these workshop creators remind me of the fledgling artist who responds to criticism with "but muh style", as if being stylistic is the same as lacking fundamental understandings of crucial art elements.

[@z1u512]

Hey its you lmao. I personally think that your art is “so bad it’s good” but I still like them

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

@@z1u512 id say that applies more to my vids lol. I can draw a mean shuma gorrath.

[@faceless2302]

porn artists state what everyone is thinking once again

[@crowdough]

You are welcome to add to the workshop yourself! :)

[@BigJoeySlaps]

Good points all throughout. I know I made a video specifically saying "do not harass workshop creators", but I meant that more along the lines of "don't go over the top and be a huge dick to them" Constructive criticism should be allowed of most anything I think you presented this pretty fairly and I agree, the responsibility is little on both ends - Valve and the creators

[@Brixster]

The sad part is, if the current workshop meta is just a big competition to make the most cheesy upvoted item, then why do these awful hats keep getting upvoted? I think people should do a better job at picking what to upvote to take this workshop quality control issue into our own hands. These workshop creators need to know that we don't stand for their BS and they shouldn't receive support. Maybe then will they be forced to be creative and original, which would genuinely benefit TF2 for the better.

[@RandomRyan]

I agree with you Joey

[@phlogchamp]

big joey based nuts

[@RealYoshicomix]

big joey based nuts

[@tracerichards2130]

big joey based nuts

[@ayakaasama]

Another annoying part is that the market gets overflown with these dogshit cosmetics and the old good quality cosmetics cost even more

[@torchy9030]

This, it's amazing how cosmetics from older cases cost more and more every time a new cosmetic case gets added. I had no idea why my items were worth more after every update until i realised that after jungle inferno valve decided to add more bad cosmetic over the years and now the majority of the hats are shit.

[@0sac]

Almost as if this scenario is entirely created by Valve to benefit them and people should probably stop directing their criticism towards the workshoppers who just made the models/textures.

[@elcobra98]

​@@torchy9030The old cosmetics cost more also because the crates are running dry, not because new ones are added. For the most part, the price of an item is calculated for its rarity. It's not that the new cosmetics are so bad that the old ones are more expensive (many are bad though), it's that Valve decided not to throw the old crates anymore that makes them rare.

[@Small_child_punter]

16:38 this sentence is very important, not just for the game, but for anything online. This video was excellent. It was well scripted and perfectly outlines the flaws with modern tf2 workshop submissions. There is no music or edits. Nothing but detailed gripes and criticism. It’s a very necessary video too. These ass ugly items are a disease to the game that’s being peddled by valve and these creators. The game deserves its art style preserved. Not tainted by valves greedy and lazy cycle of adding seasonal and horrifically mediocre piles of hats and antlers. Well made, dude. Glad you made a video about it.

[@death_sh3ll]

The christmas tree hats remind of the families being lazy to put away the tree from christmas, so it stays in the living room, even at summer

[@seronymus]

I had to force my mom to do this last week and it reminded me of christmas hats in tf2

[@vanilla8956]

My opinion is that it's much more about the care and thought put into the item than just and only just how well it fits into the game. My favorite cosmetic in the game is the Horrible Horns. Because it's not just generic demon horns slapped onto all class like you might assume at first. It really feels like the creator looked at every class and said "well, if these characters we're demons, how would these be designed?" The Scout has small subtle spikey horns, and the Spy has the exact same horns but longer, making it very obviously genetic that he's scout's father. Pyro has a unicorn horn, Demo has one that's broken to match his eyepatch and careless nature. Heavy's horns are very thick and curl around themselves like an old, yet clearly strong ram. on the surface it seems like another generic halloween all class, and I bet for absolute sure that the creator exploited that to get it in the game, but they managed to make something that stands out for feeling thoughtful and "fitting" into the characters personalities despite this.

[@thelazersofa]

very cool to hear you analyze that cosmetic haha! very solid and good points your coming with.

[@vanilla8956]

@@thelazersofa Thanks!

[@raysee6245]

We need hats and war paints that can be worn all the time, not just at smissmas, halloween and summer.

[@Fatsaver]

Technically they can still make war paints that does NOT have either halloween or smissmas theme on them! Just look at the Smissmas war paint case from 2017. Almost anything in there is not smissmas themed. This is simply a misunderstanding honestly.

[@littletweeter1327]

lol the vocabulary in that message from one of the creators "...these chuds..." thats about all ya need to know.

[@Doombringer_r]

Zesty earned his naturally aggressive personality

[@solaireofastora6173]

yes, he was created with the sole purpose of making people salty

[@quitequeerquesadilla]

@@solaireofastora6173 Of course he's meant to stir up flavor, he is Zesty Jesus

[@thepoglin8479]

the hidden southern accent really sells it

[@brutalbob842]

Sick of businesses and creators in general telling the public they should be okay with low quality stuff and that if we don't like it that we are the ones with a problem. Doesn't matter that WE are the ones PAYING for it, they just want us to give them our money, tell them they are great and do it all over again the next time they put out mediocre shit. This last smissmas was the first time I have ever looked at the hat list and decided it wasn't even worth buying a crate. I got one key just for kicks, opened the free crate I was given and left it at that. I'm going to speak with my wallet and not buy a single crate nor key until valve puts out a cosmetic crate with hats worth buying. This kind of laziness is absurd and TF2 deserves better!

[@drivanradosivic1357]

IF you do buy a key, make it the Supply crate key aka the TF2 community gold bar.

[@brutalbob842]

@@drivanradosivic1357 Yea I still got a lot leftover from when I was saving them to try and buy my dream unusual.

[@bobbycrofts9241]

*2 years later and his wallet remains untouched*

[@brutalbob842]

@@bobbycrofts9241 Would not surprise me.

[@scotterboi9]

I mean, really, the best we can do as a community is to just stop buying this stuff. Doesn't do much to complain about salty lemonade when you're still buying it anyway.

[@TacoTownUSA]

I still personally think that the items getting chosen for cases are just some Valve employee letting their five year old choose shit.

[@DannyCheezits]

"you like the choo-choo train zoey? the cocoa too?"

[@Hipst3rNinja]

There's a cosmetic I'd love to have in the game called the "Boston Dynamo". It currently has 1,054 awards on the workshop page. Some of the latest smissmiss hats have 7 or 19.

[@reagansido5823]

Instead of having 5 different versions of the same kind of hat, why not just have one hat with a few styles to choose from? Why not have one wizard hat or elf hat or beanie with multiple styles that are like the ones we currently have cluttering up the place? Maybe such a move right now would come with some problems, but maybe for the future that's something to consider.

[@Julio-it1pl]

Because money

[@darkuscarlet]

@@Julio-it1pl less hat = less money more hat = more money simple maffs by valve's janitor

[@nurihan4764]

@@darkuscarlet dont blame the janitor its all the potted plant's fault

[@neatoman5367]

I just feel so disappointed in this community and TF2 as a whole that its made me feel jaded about anything about this game, with the cheathers, hackusations, lazy devs and workshoppers, I just stopped playing the game all together and uninstalled it. Thanks Zesty, keep on being the voice of reason.

[@z1u512]

Sad to see you go brother you will be missed. Hope you will return when the game actually gets some love again even though we know it’s impossible

[@neatoman5367]

@@z1u512 What sucks the most about this situation I'm in is that every time I watch a cool TF2 video, it makes me want to play the game, but I always go back to remembering how awful the experience is in its current state. And its a cycle of watching cool tf2 videos, remembering how bad it currently is, and going back to being disappointed.

[@1rbdt]

@@neatoman5367 Same here. Haven't played since August, but I get major nostalgia whenever I look up a video even if it's just weapon rankings no gameplay.

[@dankmemes8254]

Bold of you to assume that there is lazy devs it is just one man team on team fortress

[@neatoman5367]

Dank Memes doesn’t make things any better, it makes things worse that Valve leaves a game like TF2 to one guy.

[@isenokami7810]

In terms of the workshop’s side of the blame, I’m reminded of Jackapoa’s Wutville video, and one assumed aspect of Valve’s lack of quality control on the map side of the workshop that potentially gives us in the community an answer to this. Specifically, he assumed Valve only looks at the cover image on the page and, more importantly, the rating. These crappy hats and maps are being added because people thought they looked cool or something, gave them five stars, and didn’t bother to take a closer look or think things through. Prime example of Valve’s side of the blame, to be sure, but also an opening for the community to have their say. If we give our votes based on proper quality, on whether a hat or effect properly fits TF2 or if a map is actually playable upon a community play test, then those stars will go to items that actually matter.

[@bruschetta7711]

Valve should look into the workshop differently, first off, rating is only enough to differentiate a shit hat made from someone who doesn't know how to make an item in Workshop and the mediocre fitting hat of the holiday I've seen too many 5 star rating on mediocre hats that from someone who knows how to use workshop only take a few hours to make Comments should be the way to define if a new workshop item is genuinely good or made with no effort at all, as they express public opinion much better, especially if a lot of people agree with said comment Workshop may have bots and stufff that people use in orther to give thrir items high rating and fake comments, and there's no way valve gives enough of a close look to see that Secondly, they should follow their non-super strict rules on how to make items that fit the game art-style and game well, the exceptions should be a few wacky and funny ones, and holiday should have a lower priority so that the hats in the workshop don't simply get a pass just because they look like christmas props Last but not least, Valve should pick items from new and different content creators more often, while keep an eye on ones from actually good workshop creators that put effort into their work, so that people don't get offended and think only a few creators can get their items approved but also have a general example on how hats should be done and the quality they should have As for Christams and Halloween maps i want more gimmicky maps and non popular gamemodes, i'm tired of seeing lazy Payload, and i'm ok with an original style but it should still fit the event, Breadspace is has an original style, but it doesn't fit Christams, while that one Halloween map with the mexican day of the death thing (i forgot the name) was original and still fit the halloween event As for the reason why more unpopular gamemodes should be used is to have people try out them more during the events and so maybe they won't forgot about them entirely during the year and also because they only last one or two months

[@Walker443]

I really hope people watch the video and don’t just jump straight to the comments complaining or saying this is being rude or calling out the artists in anyway, because in all honesty Zesty is completely right in this opinion and I’m agreeing with him. Team Fortress 2 has gone into this state where the Tf2 team is not even trying and literally just picking items out of a random hat with someone’s name on them, this goes for unusual’s, cosmetics, and even war paints, for they barely fit in the aspect of the game but yet they go to far in being cartoony and silly, while there are some that are fine, some just really go over the top, at this point I’m even wondering if that game is just gonna be pumped out like this and if we are actually gonna get an update and if the team will fix there shit and do something, I want to see bugs patched, I wanna see bots be taken care of, hell I want an actual update and the whole community does, for this feels like two scenario’s like every update at this point is being a community based update. That’s fine but I really would love to see work that actually isn’t just lazy, that or even ripped right of the Internet and slapped into tf2 -this going for the war paints. I scream and beg valve to do something as at this point I’m just upsets s slowly losing passion for a game I love.

[@shady5612]

thank god people are making more videos on this issue

[@730pmj]

The workshop has always been disgusting, and it eventually leaked into Dota and CS:GO as well (a lot of the early creators on both games are from TF2). I hope he makes another video on the even more saddening stuff.

[@RandommBoyo]

Zesty's the only TF2 youtuber I've seen with balls to talk about the shitty workshop items and not trying to be as polite as possible to be positive for everyone or shit. Big respecc

[@BeanTheRealHuman]

TF2 fans don't harass workshop creators challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[@newdawnsets7076]

@@BeanTheRealHuman Like any of these creators deserve respect

[@sonofaquack6987]

@@BeanTheRealHuman no ones harassing anyone, is that what we call calling out now? Besides you and I both know most people are tired of generic Christmas tree hats or beanies.

[@reminagyo2973]

@@BeanTheRealHuman Criticism isn’t harassment. I’m sorry for how fragile you seem to be.

[@RightWingDogWhistle]

@@BeanTheRealHuman 11:55

[@seronymus]

Zesty, I need to be honest. At first I presumed you were being slightly hysterical about the workshop. Yet when I did a bit of digging, and especially when I saw those message screenshots from a few of those creators (love the "chud" comment, very telling of that kind of "guy"), that fired up my blood. It is so terrible to see when people don't have ideals and care and LOVE in their craft. You can sense these generic slop-churners are egotistical; it reflects in their works. Honestly this does inspire me to try making my own item soon that keeps to the creative original spirit of this beloved game. This may sound overbearing, but even for making silly hats in a video game, something like the old "Parable of the Talents" applies. When you are blessed with creativity and you waste on making slop for a quick buck, that reflects your inner darkness. It's a shame to be quashed, and good needs to speak up. Thanks for making this video.

[@TF2_n_n]

I agree. Imagine having the talent to create items but making gimmicky random item on head or shoes. Bruh

[@jonkoplinski9664]

i was a member of that community for a while. it's ironic how socialists act the most capitalist

[@seronymus]

@@jonkoplinski9664 oh yeah, I remember as a teen lurking on a lot of socialist subreddits in morbid curiosity. A long time, I was foolish. Ultimately the saddest thing is a lot of these guys don't care for the poor and oppressed as much as they claim; indeed saints are naturally rare. Ultimately many just want to smoke weed and masturbate 24/7 if they could. :/

[@pyrobutdecaf]

Am I the only one whose noticed the minute Zesty takes a stance on ANYTHING wamo seems to follow behind shortly taking the opposite stance? Like it wasn't even 2 weeks after this video WAMO posted his defending the workshop.

[@lordsupersucc]

Zesty is the voice of the common TF2 player, keep at it man because no one else honestly is.

[@DannyCheezits]

zesty got them tegridy in him

[@BeanTheRealHuman]

if you think this is the voice of the common tf2 player you need to get out from whatever rock you are living under and join the rest of us in the real world

[@lordsupersucc]

@@BeanTheRealHuman ok genius, who is it then? Because I don't see anyone else standing up against those ruining the game, both Valve themselves and the money hungry, apathetic workshop creator.

[@BeanTheRealHuman]

@@lordsupersucc Explain to me exactly how hats you don't like the look of ruins a game? Also while your at it explain to me how harassing the workshop creators fixes it?

[@elcobra98]

​@@BeanTheRealHumanWhile I'm against harassment, since people seem to be quick to throw shit when most of them don't have the first idea on how to even use modelling software (and ofc bc entitling yourself to insult someone on internet is low), it's sad, but it is what it is. Valve doesn't care about their artstyle, so they don't care either, and most of the community as well. I honestly would love to see most of the great ideas over the workshop that don't jeopardize the artstyle of the game or don't rely on being mockups of either popular memes or movie characters be brought into the game. It's not the key aspect of the game; I play TF for many reasons, one of the being the artstyle, so I'd love to get cosmetics that respect the setting a bit more, while still retaining the goofiness that makes Teufort 'n' Friends 2™ so characteristic, especially considering this isn't purely a labor of love, but has money involved, but to be fair that's off-topic. Again, it is what it is; being as realistic as possible, and keeping in mind Workshop (allegedly) works with a voting system, people get what they ask for, so I'm glad for them! Cheers!

[@icebitezart]

Also gotta love the items that get infinite amounts of votes but Valve just never sees or adds them into the game for some reason. Weapon Accessories are probably the coolest thing that they could add if you've seen them. If you haven't they're basically shit like flashlights on your weapons, straps on the shotgun, etc. and would work like Festivizers. Yet Valve doesn't add this. Also Stranges are so easy to implement just make a new case that drops new weapon stranges please it's driving me up the wall

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

Tf2 is already monetized with all the shit they have like hats, miscs, war paints and reskins Weapon acessories just seems overboard

[@drivanradosivic1357]

PLUS the new Halloween spells and enchantments! Valve could make a whole lot of dosh with the new additions. but no, let's put in the lamest of the lame into the game!

[@fders938]

Adding weapon accessories would require some effort from Valve though...

[@icebitezart]

@@fders938 clone the festivizer code and just replace it with the accessory, it shouldn’t be too hard considering it’s already shown to be compatible with the game

[@LittlePawPup]

You know, i stopped looking through the workshop years ago because of the decline in quality of the hats, it felt like every time it was the same top hat and baloonicorn cosmetic. But this has inspired me to go back on the workshop and make sure to pick the items i like and feel would look cool in the game. We as a community need to bring back the good cosmetics to the top page and show Valve what we really want; good, fitting and cool cosmetics. Thanks for this vid, Zesty

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

6:49 One can only imagine what that spray was, thank zesty for baring the burden of knowledge.

[@maxresdefault_]

Although, I do miss sprays

[@Selzor]

And then immediately there’s more furry porn, lmao.

[@icetide9411]

I think part of the reason people on the workshop slowly fade into the "let's just make it holiday themed" side is because the longer they try to make something good, the more it makes them resentful when their hours of work is beat by something made in about 45 minutes. I don't know if there's any sort of term for it, but it can be less like "Time to make something bad so I can make me some more of that sweet cash!" and more like "welp, I hate this, but I get to have some extra money after bills so I guess I'll submit it." It doesn't justify doing it, by you can at least understand more WHY they're doing it

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

thing is, it winds up causing the cycle to repeat itself over and over ad nauseum until the entire workshop falls apart with balloonicorns and remakes of the same hats.

[@elcobra98]

​@@airplanemaniacgaming7877Yes but, if people wanna complain about killing status quo, they should throw the example. Until then, it's easy to tell others what to do when there's no stake for one; sure, I will tell [average workshop content creator] "hey dude! You should try throwing cosmetics that are good by themselves and not just holiday themed, you may have less chances of it being added, but you'll do good by me: a random guy from internet that will forget about you when the cosmetic topic cools down!" It's not that I disagree with the intentions, it's that I feel like it's easy to tell others what they should do with their skills and limited resources and time. It's not black and white I'm afraid :(

[@panoramico4930]

TF2: a game of mercenaries killing themself to complete an objective. workshop creators: ah yes, take a hat in form of a christmas tree.

[@thicboibigsmoke7220]

Pop culture items are always top tier quality because the people who made them actually CARE about the show/reference. I seriously doubt people are massively passionate about beanies or Christmas tree themed hats. Jojo cosmetics? Star Wars references? Those fans are insane (awesome) enough to meticulously plan our every single pixel before creating the perfect cosmetic

[@deaglan6641]

God I hope the MF DOOM mask gets added in

[@DannyCheezits]

They usually get pretty good levels of approval since the fandom will spam likes on them to get it in

[@joemusfox]

@@deaglan6641 It would be good because it could be a reference to MF DOOM himself, and the original where he took the mask from (Gladiator)

[@Veratig]

It's amazing how many times you have to tell them the overall same argument in several ways for them to get it. And they probably still won't...

[@RandomRyan]

Let’s hope the lazier Workshop creators will take Zesty’s advice this time

[@matadorc9990]

*"No thanks/Not interested"*

[@Blue_The_SilkWing]

They hated Jesus because he told them the truth

[@succybeverage]

"shut up!"

[@Johan-van-wezel]

This video has more effort put into it than most workshop submission for tf2 nowadays

[@sneaky_xd]

Say what you want about Zesty's personality, but as a content creator he is the constant source of reason for the TF2 community. Very true about how bad TF2 content has blame on both sides. If Valve's gonna sit on their fat ass and do nothing, then we're gonna have to be the change we want to see. I love this game and am not ready to see it die, or worse, become some cesspool of cheaters or toxic players. Keep up the good content Zesty.

[@hmmmstvethebaffled7720]

I don’t like how zesty constantly makes annoying straw men in his arguments with that whiny voice he makes sometimes but yeah, I think he’s real good. I don’t know how tf2 is going to turn out in the future, but if it were up to him to decide, I’d be happy with that. He’s the embodiment of the tough truth and he tells it like it is.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

Hes the alex jones of tf2 Sometimes, he has completely garbage takes, but other times, he hits the nail on the coffin

[@emptyvending8964]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 You just described him perfectly.

[@peakwoop]

Yeah, this exactly. I don't support a lot of his takes, but he's also probably the most respectable TF2 youtuber in terms of content

[@th4ft]

@@hmmmstvethebaffled7720 I'm worried if the person doing a baby voice to mock their opponent is being held up as "The voice of reason". TF2 community must really be lacking

[@bluemaster75]

There is one cosmetic I find cool on here, which is the sentry head on Engi. I like looking like a sentry in a sense using some other cosmetics.

[@Kc40k]

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO LIKES THAT HAT

[@thestrawberrypimp6762]

zesty being the real Jesus of truth when he says this.

[@Thefrostedslime]

On the topic of "cosmetics fitting the game's art and character's personality" I want to see a soldier cosmetic set known as "Mr. President" where Soldier puts on a team color matched suit and fedora to cosplay as the President. I think someone can easily make that work in the style of the game, and also be true to Soldier's character of a patriotic American with a hard-on for the president. FFS one of his voice lines is literally "This must be how the president feels all the time" with admiration in his voice.

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

I mean, these cosmetics already exist and the Federal Casemaker was once a Soldier only cosmetic...

[@Calvin_Coolage]

My favorite set from last year was the fishing set for Pyro. It's cute, well made, fits art style and Pyro's wacky zany personality. But that's like the exception a lot of times. Also I have a strange one of that stupid Covid mask, I wear it solely because it looks ok-ish with some of my wintery loadouts.

[@stitchfinger7678]

Pyro kinda gets to have any wacky items they want cuz pretty much anything fits their character.

[@Greydonkey.]

Everything will be forgiven if they add the motherly father

[@NormalThe7th]

Dear God

[@eldoonsnoodles]

They hated Jesus because he told the truth. Wait a minute...

[@gabrielraynard8056]

You know what Zesty? You're completely right about this problem. We got a lazy company that put the things into the game and the item makers that don't care their items is appropriate for the game, and this just irritates me. We've just been served crap these years and the people that make and put these crap don't even care it's appropriate or not, all of the thing they thinks now is just get the money for this crap and even worse the creators that actually competent also became like this, which is heartbreaking for me. This just made me wish I can go to the past to re-experience the golden age again

[@nyxgamingreal]

I remember unboxing one case and getting the towering pillar of pumpkins. I wasn't even that excited to get something that's supposed to be rare and exciting. All I got was something rare, and a lost profit. Was very upset to actually have good luck for once, instead of getting something else in the case that actually looked more decent at an easier chance.

[@Vapolygon]

This is more or less the reason why I slowed down making items for TF2 as the years went on. It's a little disheartening when it feels like Valve dodge what you put most of your time and thought into in favour of something that you made in a day for shits and giggles. When it stopped feeling like a challenge to get something shipped with an update the sense of accomplishment just fell off. Don't get me wrong, there's good money in this and it's easy to be blinded by it. The stuff I've enjoyed working on the most are the things that feel like variations on the existing character outfits; it encourages you to work something into the default designs and you have to really think about what you're making. The characters themselves are vital pieces of information and aren't just dressed to impress, they also serve the function of being easily readable and that can be a fun challenge to have to work around. I feel like we get the things we do now on the workshop is mostly because it's what Valve generally accepts these days, but there's also the possibility that everything you can think of that makes sense has been pretty much done at this point, it was either shipped years ago or is just being left to rot on the far pages of the workshop. The times I've made "workshop bait" or "pocket items" I've tried make something that is at least interesting to work on, the general rule I have for myself is; "If I'm not excited to make it, then people aren't going to be excited to use it." I've found the lack of ambition almost always shows in the final product. That's just my 2 cents on the subject, on a positive note I do feel like the TF2 workshop is great for general 3D experience and feedback regardless what you intend to make, there's a lot you can take away from it and apply in other artistic areas. I haven't made anything for TF2 in over a year but the need for those skills crop up in my personal work more often than I anticipated.

[@doubledee8677]

Looking through your stuff it's clear to see the effort and time and thought that went into it. It's a shame and a disgrace to see people like you who put in the work but are often turned aside by Valve for unconcerned hacks spewing out their effortless quick cashgrab refuse. Honestly, I don't know why anyone in your position would continue outside of sheer love for the game.

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

I'm finding it difficult to tell whether Valve is encouraging creators to make junk or if creators are exploiting Valve's carelessness more. I can easily see someone making cosmetics for years only to be met with this situation and seeing either leaving the workshop or joining the trend as options.

[@bloobiest]

I don't understand how anyone can call this video harassment, its criticism, not hate. I also don't understand how anyone can disagree with this video, its just fact after fact after fact.

[@jared20089]

No one's calling the video itself harassment. What the video caused, despite Zesty telling people explicitly not to, is workshop creators getting harassed.

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@jared20089 So it's only zesty's fault that people are getting "harassed" on the workshop (if that is even a thing). People leave mean comments and then fuck right off, they don't go out of their way to make some guy who made a hat for a game's life miserable. There are only harsh and rude comments and constructive feedback. I do not believe this "death threat" thing but people should not recieve death threats over hats in a video game.

[@bloobiest]

@@jared20089 jesus christ you think they cant take a couple words on the internet?? if i got a message saying "Your videos are so bad you should kys" im not gonna go cry on twitter about it, im gonna laugh about it.

[@Vooman]

"Im not gonna spend a dime on this trash" Probably shoulda said "penny" since most of this trash on the verge of being under 10c lmao

[@the3plyspy]

Lmaooooo

[@TheAnnoyingF2P]

Reminder that a single Workshop creator has had a whopping 251 items added to the game because Valve won't add other people's stuff. His content was shown in the video and it's obviously followed this same trend. He gets several cosmetics added per case.

[@BoP0e]

Neodement?

[@TheAnnoyingF2P]

@@BoP0e Yes, this comment is a year old, so he has more now.

[@Kleos197]

What we truly need is more people like you, Zesty. I hate the growing complacent nature that so many players, so many people just accept because, "at least it's something." I find it gross how anyone can stand there and accept garbage when people who pour their heart and soul into cosmetics can't even compare in votes and acceptance rates as the wacky trash. Honestly, those workshop creators need to get their heads out of the clouds and back into reality. It shows how far up they really are when they view basic criticism as harassment. It's really embarrassing to see; what's even more absurd is the amount of people willing to defend them and their attitudes.

[@VaultInteractive]

You know what would be cool? A hat that randomly picks from any hat in your inventory and uses it for it's look. When you respawn, the hat changes. Imagine the game picks a ghostly gibus and the "randomized hats" unusual effect is something like burning flames. Now that would actually be pretty interesting. Hopefully this dumb idea could throw a curveball to people and get their gears turning.

[@NanaKyoto]

I've actually taken a liking to all the older cosmetics that fit the game's art direction for a while now. I only use the "wacky and outrageous" type of cosmetics if I'm doing it on purpose for one of those "wacky and outrageous" loadouts for some sort of gimmick.

[@PurpSerp]

I like how zesty becomes progressively more and more southern the more heated he gets

[@GigioBagigio1]

I don't really have anything else to add honestly. This video makes light to most of the important stuff about the current state of the workshop. I like that a person like you, no metter the haters and harrasments, you continue to share your thoughts about "sensitive" topic like this. Good work as always zesty

[@MoronicRoc]

Hard agree with boycotting workshop items. We need to make sure to choke the lazy item creators, and make sure all of them go back to making what we truly want. We want maps and weapons, aka CONTENT. Keep doing your thing. I may not agree with some of your takes, but dangit if they aren't interesting to listen to.

[@aSmallGreenDot]

we should all not unbox a case but sadly that won't happen because there's always a couple people who unbox hundreds of them every update.

[@medi_rei]

What the actual fuck? Creators make what they want, not everyone makes items to put into the game. There's PLENTY of good creators and items that Valve doesn't care to look at. Why should creators not be allowed to spend their free time on something that they would be proud of, instead of something that fits your criteria for a "good item"?

[@DannyCheezits]

@@medi_rei because the hats suck lmao

[@medi_rei]

@@DannyCheezits Cool. Just because you think that doesn't mean creators should their creativity hindered.

[@DannyCheezits]

@@medi_rei yeah whatever

[@pantuternik]

You know, I really appreciate you Zesty, for just being often the first voice of reason and just spewing out what everyone thinks but dare not say it in fear of getting called out and demoted for it. I, as probably many others would never be able to have the courage for it. Thank you.

[@luigi_oe]

It’s so frustrating seeing more people take advantage of a game that barely has any kind of developer input nowadays. There are SO MANY really good cosmetics out there, but are being hidden by the trashy cosmetics that are a lot more rampant on the workshop. Thanks for making this video, Zesty.

[@PK-Radio]

Y'know valve you can always put workshop weapons in the game We're not stopping you

[@isaiahsimmons5776]

they will never do it. theyre too afraid about the meta.

[@alexandrews6256]

Zesty is an enigma to people because he's not a fucking idiot. He doesn't spout stupid bullshit, he's really into numbers and balance and appears to like talking on such subjects, however he isn't some competitive junky like most other TF Tubers that also talk about balance in a more biased way. He seems to be just a guy that likes the dumb rocket jump hat sim and loves what he can find with pulling numbers from the game and the weapons in said game. He's not really an ass about the things he criticizes, he just seems to get exasperated by how people think when blunt numbers prove otherwise, or when others try making him out to be horrible for sharing his opinion on a matter important to him.

[@MrJoeyWheeler]

All of this. He's spot on the money and not willing to kowtow to the demands of people who are crazy or ill informed... or stupid, or any mix of the three. it makes him a real breath of fresh air.

[@seronymus]

Unlike Uncle Dane and GermanPeter who dip their poison in honey and unironically cry about insane nonsense like "transphobia", Zesty has actual standards for his content.

[@njo191]

Anyone who shrieks harassment when they're being rightfully criticized is lower than a worm

[@Ayahuasca98]

Total emporium death

[@butter5842]

It matters less so whether criticism is positive or negative but what’s important is if it’s constructive or not. This was a good video.

[@Nicky2414]

At this point, I believe Valve doesn't care about Team Fortress 2 at all. Sure, they'll add a bug fix here and there and a holiday event every now and again. However, judging from the lack of quality control, swarms of bots and hackers, and having no real major updates since Jungle Inferno shows that Valve is only keeping it alive just to make money.

[@prismaticseal2553]

Is scary how you can change workshop items for KZbin videos/twitch streamers and valve for well KZbin/Twitch, where everyone tries the ''Meta'' and when they are called out for not caring about what they do, they just say ''Is not my fault, is the companies's because we are forced to do this''

[@TheDeathMedic]

That last image truly is a work of art. This bloke literally unblocked you to show you their item, because they knew you would include the convo in one of your videos. 5D Chess, anyone?

[@DerNamenlose1991]

"they hated him, for he spoke the truth" love the video i hope a lot of people (that can take criticism) see it and realise in what state the workshop really is

[@Dredger7]

glad to see my own ranting over all these garbage cosmetics get a cameo, and I'll gladly keep it going if it don't get any better

[@NotSoProfessionalGuy]

To add to this discussion, it's incredibly baffling to me how the workshop creators keep saying that they're forced to make this, but when you look at their workshop page. either a quarter to the majority of the items they made are wacky, cookoo. hehe cosmetics that have little variation with each other. Hell one workshop creator had a page that was filled with about 100 creations of just the Balloonicorn. You couldn't even tell what the difference is with any of them.

[@lavalord96]

Pretty much the most accurate video on the current state of the workshop.

[@krumbo2877]

Workshoppers that act like they are forced to make cheesy shit must not know that getting an item added is a god-given privilege and not a right

[@velikigospar]

Valve should give us what KZbin took from us: like and dislike numbers. I always wanted to see whether or not I was in the minority of the people sick of these items, but thankfuly, seeing youtubers and the community rallying around this issue and cruising through the comments, makes me happy to see that most people are finally sick of this crap. Thank you Zesty, you legend. 🤙🏻

[@RandomRyan]

I feel like this video is going to be very based and Zesty-pilled. Edit: It really was! Especially 8:44, and 15:39.

[@monkeydetonation]

Imo this is still 100% valve's fault. People are always gonna upload shitty hats to the workshop, it's inevitable, but it wouldn't really be a problem if Valve gave a damn.

[@geronimoguy111]

12:06 40 dollars an hour is crazy for a floating PNG

[@thepiratedoggo1996]

im glad someone mentioned it. i have noticed thats ALL there is these days. speical seasonal cosmetics. nothing rarely ever shows up anymore thats actually suited to this games style, wacky is fine, but it's beyond a joke now.

[@jesusmann9683]

Having worked in the entertainment industry for a long time, I can tell you that these are the type of people that will never get hired or called for anything. The only thing people in entertainment hate more than a lack of basic respect, punctuality, and hard work is UNORIGINALITY and PLAGIARISM. I’ve seen DOZENS of musicians bust their balls to make their own new spin on things and get somewhere, albeit glacially, to their own way up. I’ve seen many more copy what another rapper/singer does, get popularity for about 20 minutes, then fade into the NPC life they were destined for in the first place. These people are not WORTHY of anyone’s harassment. These lazy, uninspired, daft morons will fade out fast and quick. Their work will be forgotten and cast aside in due time if we act like good consumers. The flame that burns 2x as bright burns only have as long.

[@TF2_n_n]

Amen.

[@seronymus]

This is a true post, maybe hard to digest for some. Thank you for writing this. Even in general in life, in history, think about how many geniuses and truly good works gets overlooked in their time and unappreciated until later perhaps. These greedy lazy ones though? I think even the Bible discusses fools like this. They get their quick buck and time in the sun, but they quickly shall either away into dust.

[@TheAnnoyingF2P]

LOL I just realized that I know that guy at the end crying about "harassment" and "transphobia." A lot of his stuff was featured in this video as well. He has a few gems, but most of it is in-line with the trends you are talking about.

[@SealShpeeDaSweggy]

Bonk Nickeltoon isn't it?

[@TheAnnoyingF2P]

@@SealShpeeDaSweggy Yes, appears to be based on the profile pic he had at the time and the item he's pushing. His work can be top notch because he's a very good modeler - or it can be the epitome of everything that was skewered in this video. Unfortunately, it looks like a number of the bad items he's made are the ones that are getting into the game. He actually hasn't had as many added as I thought, but I assume he works on teams for a lot of them.

[@SealShpeeDaSweggy]

​@@TheAnnoyingF2P What's funny is that he's actually not the only one who does this. The bigger elephant in the room is a about a dude named NeoDement. I've literally built up an intense detestation for him and Bonk over the years. They're both part of that "TF2 Emporium" circlejerk along with other fellow workshop creators and they all share the exact same qualities as each other. They make bog-standard, low-effort crap and throw it on the workshop without a care in the world other than to get paid. They don't know how to take kindly to any form of constructive criticism at all but rather retort with stupid, satirical remarks because they know deep down that Valve is going to keep adding their crap and there's nothing we can do about it. Then there's the other flip side where they'll try and feed off of the backlash and make it out as "harassment" towards them when it's far from that. It's the exact reason why they purposely go below the standards to make stuff that's only going to benefit them and not the community in-hand. They design this stuff because they're clearly directed at people who were rightfully upset about past cosmetic cases being filled with terrible items made by those same people. The workshop is a space for the community to decide what the best looking items are and what is befitting of the game, not to satisfy your shitty self-made items collection. I'm convinced Valve is on a contract with these guys because you can't tell me this painfully obvious crap that they're pumping out is anything but bait. I've literally seen many instances of a poorly-done, gimmicky christmas or halloween misc that looks outright wrong to be in the game, and then one of their supposed friends/workshop creators that are in on the bait will comment dumb shit like "Hahaha this is great" or make a witty sarcastic statement trying to take shots at people who are obviously not going to like said item. What they're doing is clearly fucking insulting to not only the community but other workshop creators who actually have the raw talent of designing amazing cosmetics but not a single one of their items are getting added because of these assholes trying to troll on purpose.

[@TheAnnoyingF2P]

@@SealShpeeDaSweggy Okay, yeah I remember NeoDement. Bonk has a lot of crap which has mostly been prevented from getting into the game, but even he has a few serviceable items compared to NeoDement. That guy is an absolute menace and he has a whopping 259 items in the game, which has got to be a record. He's to cosmetics what ICS is to maps, if you know who I'm talking about. Thing is, these guys are great artists, it's just that what they do is bloat the game to make themselves and Valve money. I can't even begin to imagine how much money NeoDement has made over the years, simply because Valve likes him and is too lazy to care about his work.

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

Salty lemonade is actually delicious, but sugar is still required. If you are from Vietnam, you will know this. If not, just search Nước Chanh Muối.

[@BaeYeou]

After the 2021 Winter crate, I fully see how shit the stuff we get nowadays is. No more cool or cute or even just plain neat hats, only GIMMICKS FOR THE HOLIDAYS. I hate that all the Halloween skins have the same colour scheme, I hate that the only hats we get for Smissmas are elf hats that don't make sense to wear any other time of the year, and I hate how the Summer cosmetics are all vacation themed. There's no variation anymore, and apparently to Valve, no space for anything else that doesn't fit with the relevant holiday. It sucks.

[@raysee6245]

Smissmas, Scream Fortress, Summer, Smissmas, Scream Fortress, Summer, Smissmas, Scream Fortress, Summer, Smissmas, Scream Fortress, Summer...

[@patrickfrost9405]

"Valve, on the off-chance you're listening --" You could laser your message into their retinas and they'd still ingore TF2.

[@roman108]

Anyone remembers Weapons in the Workshop? They just flat out stopped existing since 2017, nowadays you don’t see a SINGLE one, literally.

[@WaterBisquitte]

8:24 the shittiest part about this is that they’d easily be making the same amount of money, if not more by putting the good, high quality items deserving of being paid for into cases instead of what were getting now

[@the_epic_memer553]

Idea: Next smissmas, don't touch the new sissmas items. Delete cases when they are touched. Avoid the maps. I'm certain that if they don't make a single cent off of the hat they will either leave or they will make better content.

[@ziphy_6471]

Kinda hard to make the majority of tf2 players to do that. I couldn't that anyways because im F2P.

[@mobyz2058]

''If you keep making shit, we're gonna keep getting shit.

[@Archimo]

I think you formulated yourself incredibly well in this video & made sure to get your point across in a very professional manner, Well done.

[@the3plyspy]

Hi archimo!

[@crowdough]

This was anything but professional. He even put in a discord dm at the end to be petty. He mocks and straight up insults work shoppers throughout the entire video… even if you agree, you must admit this could've been presented a lot better.

[@Archimo]

@@crowdough I were just listening to it. my statement is in regard to how the talking were done in the video, if something flashed up for a brief moment and you'd have to pause and read it to feel like it's not professionally done then I've got no statements on that front.

[@pumpshotgun8992]

Yeah, he had pointed it all out. Sad to see people chose not to perfected they arts and become better, or just not care about the style of the art that made it whole and just made something that look like craps or mediorce as a stale piece of carton. And they comments made me feel wanna rack up. Damn, guess back to the waiting room for something that actually really good with TF2

[@stillvillian]

Personally, I’m a more silly person-I like stupid and weird cosmetic, but stuff like Christmas items coming out constantly it makes hard to be creative. I think we should give more chances for the players to have more creative outfits and not sticking to one art-style solely because honestly isn’t the Appeal of TF2 being a wacky-fun shooter. I’m not a fan of the horrible cosmetic we have been getting, but I still want more fun items that allow the community to experiment.

[@phlogchamp]

That’s perfectly fine. You’re allowed to like stupid and weird cosmetics, but when there’s way too many of them in the game that don’t fit the art style, it ruins the point.

[@stillvillian]

@@phlogchamp there is a difference between silly and tasteless. I agree that tasteless cosmetics are just gross to look at but why can’t we should experiment with more silly things because in a game that’s inherently silly it works. I just want people to see the difference between something that is actually funny and creative vs. something that’s gaudy and tasteless.

[@phlogchamp]

@@stillvillian Because, the game is set in the mid 1900s and 16 different variations of brightly colored christmas trees and demonic rituals as unusual effects simply don’t belong in the game

[@stillvillian]

@@phlogchamp This the same series where Abraham Lincoln invented stairs and Shakespearicles invented rocket jumping, also magic is a real thing so unusual make sense no matter how dumb. Like I said the game is inherently silly, but I don’t want tasteless and 100 variations of Christmas items. The latest this game takes place in is the 1970s. We know the art-style is messed up but we haven’t even set a foundation to what it is today. We can’t look at Gen 1 and say that’s what this game has to look like forever; we have to adapt with the times and allow more creativity over immersion because TF2 isn’t about immersion.

[@toyfreddygaming]

I agree! I honestly don't care when I see a giant Banana hat as a cosmetic, and not only because it looks silly, but because sometimes people get really creative with this silly stuff! Like for example, the corpse carrier. Honestly this is one of my favorite Halloween cosmetics due to how fucking stupid it looks. And you know, extremely wacky items like this SHOULD stay as Halloween-only, they deviate too hard from the main artstyle of the game and to be fair I don't see any of the mercs wearing these outside of Halloween. But when I see an uninspired and dull cosmetic I just roll my eyes. Putting something in-game in a hat for the 19315th time isn't funny or zany, it's just boring.

[@hylianmango8272]

Man we need more people like Zesty. I dont agree with everything he says in all of his videos but I prefer it that way. People who speak their opinion and dont just go with the trend to not risk anything are absolute chads.

[@ArrowSkye]

Jesus Christ, those Discord messages are infuriating.

[@seronymus]

The part where he said "chud" is what fully pushed me over the line to Zesty's side. No one good ever uses that word unironically. Would not be surprised if he is a groomer too

[@dedenail]

"The more lazy, narcisstic sides of the workshop" a little bit of sundowner just spilled out there. I love the Texas accent.

[@randomroughneck1030]

you know its a serious zesty video when at the end he pulls out his southern drawl

[@AFelloCNDN]

i really wish i could see the karen modellers reaction to this

[@araylaurence6220]

i don't always agree with zestys taks namely on RBS and weapon balance however this i whole hearted agreed with as it isn't the consumers fault if they do not like the products that are being presented, good video

[@GoingDanInFlames]

I like hearing Zesty get worked up because his accent starts slipping through, and as a Kentucky hick, I can definitely appreciate the effort that goes into trying to sound like a 'normal' coastal speaker

[@guscox9651]

speak with your wallets, bois. i havent opened a single case since 2017 and i dont plan on doing so until something changes

[@GigasGMX]

If "TF2 Workshop Creator" was actually a full-time job that provided these people's sole source of income, I'd be willing to defend them; you gotta put money on the table, after all. But, uh, there's literally no way that's true, seeing as how Valve only even takes submissions 3 times/year. So, in conclusion, any workshop creator whose primary interest is getting money (as opposed to adding something cool to the game with a side-order of money) can get fucked, IMO. We don't need 'em in this community AT ALL. Also, don't let 'em crybully you. If one of their discords/communities/whatever is ground zero for their toxic mindset, just call it out by name. They'll say you're harassing them/encouraging harassment no matter what you do.

[@fders938]

You shouldn't justify shitty behavior with "They need to get food in the table somehow".

[@GigasGMX]

@@fders938 Look, full-time jobs universally suck and a LOT of them feed into shiftiness. "There is no ethical consumption under late capitalism" and all that. I'd rather see someone feed themself by making shitty-looking items for a video game than, say, building the next generation of spyware. But that doesn't really MATTER because there's no possible way that being a TF2 Workshop Creator is a viable primary source of income.

[@sankdom4598]

One thing that shows how desperate people are for good cosmetics is the pumpkin moon effect the first effect that looks like it could have been added from before 2015 and people go fucking nuts over it