[TF2] Trickstabbing is Cheating

[@AbcDefg-tq3ju]

stabby stabby just heard about this video on stream and immediately laughed and said "that guy sounds like he has no idea what hes talking about" lmfao

[@godofportal5905]

amazing

[@korjezilla]

Thank you for sharing this video with some of your favorite trickstabbers. But please make sure they actually watch it

[@doge2584]

@@korjezilla 🤓

[@korjezilla]

@@doge2584 💀

[@CHEH_tf]

for the first time I agree with what stabby stabby said

[@albertobravo8353]

Teammate when sees a tryhard trickstaber: Yeah i'm gonna melee him

[@korjezilla]

I need that 25 HP from my Powerjack

[@Lone-Nep]

Spy used to have a Knife raise time when the game came out. They removed it in 2009 for the reason of fixing facestabs. They also reduced the backstab hitbox at the same time. But that was reverted because it just made it harder to get actual backstabs. While having the knife raise time make a comeback sounds nice on paper, I think it would ultimately do very little, at best it might prevent abuse, until trickstabbers find the new way to do it. Melee hitreg sucks in general in this game and since that has never been fixed, I doubt trickstabs will.

[@MrIcezGaming]

"Let's Nerf the worst class in the game" - TF2 Players

[@korjezilla]

"Spy is weak" - said no spy mains ever

[@yumesol]

@@korjezilla i promise you, and I really mean it. Nearly every spy main i know understands that spy is the weakest class.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

"Let's nerf the second worst class in the game" -Also TF2 players

[@korjezilla]

​@@yumesol Maybe they're the one having a skill issue. Or maybe it's that everyone forgot that we have medic. Is he good at combat?

[@unr34L-]

@@korjezillaguarantee spy is your least played

[@itsasecrettoevery1]

Alright look, i can see where you’re coming from, and i want to provide constructive criticism instead of just insulting you (unlike other commenters…) Yes, server issues can make some seemingly impossible backstabs possible, and its not fair if a spy is abusing network settings to get an unfair advantage. But that’s all they are, server issues; they’re not **balance** issues. When you get headshot from around a corner, you dont blame the sniper. When you get melee’d by someone like 30 meters away, you dont blame the player. You would and should blame the server. these server issues aren’t intentional, and you shouldn’t nerf *actual* game mechanics to compensate. Its like playing basketball on a shitty concrete court in some tiny city block. When a player shoots a half court because the whole court is small and shitty, you dont ask that the player should just “shoot less farther,” its not the player’s fault the court is not up to standard, especially when they’ve been doing this for possibly 15 years. You fix the issue, not the game around it, and that’s up to Valve and modern technical limitations.

[@Baron_Raven]

I appreciate that you didn't just write "skill issue" Yes, the root of the problem lies in server issues. But it affects the whole spy design. Spy should be disadvantageous when discovered. A spy will get my respect if he will trick me into losing him from my screen and opening back for him. But if I got stabbed when I was never losing spy from my screen... That's clearly a BS. I am not against spies playing offensive. It's about proper feedback. It's a part of balancing as well.

[@evdestroy5304]

It could be easily fixed by just making the backstab radius smaller so it isn't your back and your sides

[@AbcDefg-tq3ju]

spy IS disadvantageous when discovered, what youre asking for is for him to be nigh-helpless

[@Kewertate]

Spy had a small stab radius around like 2007-2009 I think. It was apparently so remarkably bad that people forced Valve to revert it to the current backstab radius. This also added instant stabs.

[@itsasecrettoevery1]

@@Kewertate yep. i did know that the knife had a delay instead of being instant today. i didnt know the backstab radius was smaller back then. This just shows that what the video was suggesting was already tried *14 years ago* and it just didnt work.

[@samuels1123]

Note: The title is a clickbait, what they mean to say is "trickstabbing mostly relies on network" which from my experience is true, the spy changes direction and runs behind you and just as that motion reaches your monitor the server has received the spy's input to hit your back. I don't exactly hate the spy as a class, I hate that the community has transformed its main function into exploiting hardware or suicide diving

[@korjezilla]

The title is pretty much not a clickbait. It is mentioned twice in the video, it talks about how spy gets an unfair advantage, so pretty much stays on this topic

[@ThatNoobKing]

Sometimes when playing spy, _I saw the facstab_ I could see that the enemy was facing towards me, but the game counted it as a stab anyway

[@zephranarx2172]

Yeah, I've no idea why the backstab radius is so big to begin with, I feel the third solution might be the best so people will, yknow, play Spy as intended. I've seen people wipe half a team as spy by doing it as intended, which requires good placement, acting, and patience. Yes, acting, there's a way to make your disguises work effectively. There's actual spy tutorials out there that demonstrate this and you don't need janky trick stabs. Also, Spy lag-abuse is incredibly common, lmao

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

Lmao "Play spy as intended" we also have Demolitions Men that have melee weapons that are not explosive in the slightest and sheilds and all of that Stop locking people into rigid playstyles it's not good

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

Oh and also for the "play spy as intended" Spy can also not be stealthy via gunspy but noone wants to remove gun spy

[@gaming_bigfoot]

Clicked out of curiosity, stuck around for the hilarity of the comments

[@korjezilla]

So me

[@whiffingpotato]

If valve is updating melee hitboxes, then they might as well port tf2 to source 2

[@korjezilla]

It is just an idea or a suggestion, not that they 100% will do something about it

[@codywhite2889]

Trickstabs aren't cheating, but they can be bullshit sometimes. Especially in cases when the spy somehow benefits from lag, or back when spies could abuse cl_interp commands. But trickstabs are part of the game, and we likely aren't getting balance changes anytime soon. We just learn to deal with them as best we can.

[@korjezilla]

It's just about sending a message... Trickstabs really are unfair and they mostly depend on data issues. True that we aren't getting balance changes

[@mrmedic7799]

While Trickstabs as a whole can be a little bit annoying due to them not showing up correctly on one Players Screen I dont think that counts as cheating. Cheating in my opinion is using third party software in order to give yourself an advantage. And even then trickstabs are just not really good. The reason the Trickstab Frag Montages keep existing is because of 2 reasons: 1.People still trying to use Melee against a Spy 2.New Players Dont Melee a Spy. You have a Gun. You can walk backwards. Spy can stab you and kill you ... but what if he cant because theres 2 Rockets in his face and youre 20 Meters outside of his backstab range. The only class who really gets benefit out of meleeing Spies is Medic since the Übersaw rewards him for doing so. As for Demoknight ... hes basically the Ultimate Anti Trickstab class besides Pyro due to him just simply outranging Spy. If you decide to just shoot him in the face instead of Meleeing him theres quite frankly nothing he can do except run away or rely on his Revolver Aim. And new Players are new. They dont know the tricks Classes like Spy can pull so they obviously dont know how to react. This isnt just with Spy. New Players often dont know how to react against Market Gardening Soldiers or Trimping/Charging Demoknights. Trickstabing while it can be annoying is definitly not a cheat atleast in my opinion.

[@sentientlvl.5mortar886]

Heavy

[@chiefr9627]

Sure getting trickstabbed feels shitty, but any mechanic with oversight is likely to get exploited. You could probably compare it to the Solider bhopping crits (i mean this as its an unintended feature that experienced players can use to their advantage). Yes it takes skill and timing, but so does trickstabbing to an extent. Same with anything relating to melee. If it's a client issue then it's always gonna feel like BS when on you're end they haven't even come near you.

[@42starboy]

3:50 : '8 year old method based on abusing game issues' im waiting for u to upload a video named 'is rocket and sticky jumping are a cheats?' since this mechanic was invented by accident

[@ragtag0]

Are market garden soldier mains that bhop to preserve the crit also cheating? His argument makes no sense I agree

[@korjezilla]

@@ragtag0 Cheaters / Abusers. Kind of the same thing, so yes. We agree it is an abuse that should be fixed.

[@korjezilla]

Why didn't I reply to this. Rocketjump is a freaking MECHANIC made by VALVe when creating TF2. Let's talk about how disguise is a bug because it was invented in TF Classic by accident. This is a different game, here it is a feature, alright? Trickstab is a maneuver invented by people and it happens to rely on game issues

[@oneshinyboi3083]

Sounds like the biggest amount of skill issue I've ever heard.

[@korjezilla]

Explain yourself

[@korjezilla]

Well no arguments. Not surprising

[@oneshinyboi3083]

@@korjezilla Don't turn your back to the spy

[@Anshhhhhhhhhk]

I feel as though this is a problem of Source Engine lag compensation, not Spy himself. The idea is vaguely there, but poorly executed. And even with these “””fixes””” were added, the facestab problem would still exist due to ping lag compensation and ping differences. This would also vastly decrease Spy’s skill level, as now Spies don’t need to learn how to gain good movement and can only decloak. In casual where everyone’s practically braindead, this makes no difference, but against even semi-competent players it would make Spy even more useless then before. Sure, you could still try to backstab and do the usual, but if the team actually is smart and not your average casual team then you might as well go Sniper.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

also both of these have been implemented and were terrible

[@korjezilla]

So, do all of my replies get deleted or what?

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron They were not

[@Anshhhhhhhhhk]

@@korjezilla wdym? I havent seen any replies from you until now

[@korjezilla]

@@Anshhhhhhhhhk Exactly and I tried putting two of them

[@Mrs.THECOMMUNISTCHANNEL]

Ah yes, let's nerf the already nerfed class even more

[@korjezilla]

Not a nerf however, a FIX !

[@mattle9094]

​@@korjezillaclass become unplayable

[@korjezilla]

@@mattle9094 Talking to a spy main that doesn't use trickstabs and gets first place in the team. Of course!

[@elikyiael8740]

​@@korjezilla use the trickstab, literally i hate when spy trickstabs me or even just stabs me because of my innatention or an abuse, but i always say 'fair' because they worked on that and it's used as a viable mechanic. i tried to play spy and while it is cool to stab people you die, fast, too fast to be classically viable, everyone spy check everybody the minute anything happens, spy doesn't have a big healthpool and damn even the full hp kunai is trully a hit or miss even when people are trained with it just trying to kill a third dude on the ennemy team i a herculean task to do that i can do way easier with a shotgun, so with a spy that makes ennemy scream for every kill? nah use the trickstab really please do, you'll be much more efficient which means you'll not only improve but will be a bigger asset to your team

[@Eternity504]

NO!11!!11 DELTE THE SPY11!11!! ITS TOO OP!1!!!1! IVE GOT KILLED ONCE BUT IM HOLDING M1 WITH SOLDIER BRO!11!11

[@slipstreammuzzle]

this video was extremely well explained, and while personally overall i consider trickstabbing to just be a simple bug in tf2 players can take advantage of, but i would definitely consider it cheating if they abuse the "cl_interp" command to make trickstabs way easier and more consistent, which is just an unfair advantage to the spy, making them harder to take down (especially if they use the kunai + dr combo) but overall you did a fantastic job explaining everything! i havent seen something in tf2 explained so well in quite a while! keep up the good work!

[@korjezilla]

Thanks, we appreciate your compliments and your opinion !

[@guy7042]

@@korjezilla LMAO YOU ARE THIS GUY'S ALT THAT GUY WAS RIGHT

[@korjezilla]

@@guy7042 Of course! Sometimes I also play TF2 with myself and make gifts for myself

[@BalefireBombshell]

They already tried both of your suggestions before. When the game first launched, backstabbing had a wind-up. There was about a .5 second long animation that would play, with the actual damage tick coming when the knife was fully down. It led to a ton of whiffed backstabs because the enemy moved just slightly out of the way, and it was rightly removed to make the class less frustrating to play. They also tried narrowing the backstab hitbox once. I believe they reduced it from 180 degrees to 160 degrees, and it basically made anyone with their back against a wall completely immune to being backstabbed (Snipers especially). I think it was reverted within a week due to community complaint.

[@korjezilla]

Both? There's three, actually.

[@chumbler216]

@@korjezilla last one was just suggesting mixing the two fixes which didn’t work. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

[@korjezilla]

@@chumbler216 Uhhhh okay bro. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works

[@chumbler216]

@@korjezilla tell me then; how does combining two “fixes” which both turned out to not work out make it work

[@korjezilla]

@@chumbler216 You will still have the wide backstab... if you just stand there for a little bit and you will have an instant stab if you are actually behind an enemy. SEEMS FAIR TO ME (I am a spy main)

[@samuels1123]

You can always prevent headshots by staying out of sightlines, or briefly nullify them by using a high health class or bullet resistance. There is no way to prevent a trickstab, an interp spy does a suicide dive towards you and before their movement reaches your monitor the spy has registered a backstab with the server. Spy is in practical senses an invisible super sniper with this, standing anywhere ready to hit you with an instant kill bullet.

[@objectionablycurious]

You can always prevent backstabs by staying aware of stabs, or briefly nullify them by having your teammates actually kill them. There is no way to prevent a headshots, a good sniper peeks a corner at you and before their movement reaches your monitor the sniper has registered a headshot with the server. Sniper is in practical senses a long ranged super spy with this, standing anywhere ready to hit you with an instant kill bullet.

[@Gaelic-Spirit]

@@objectionablycurious You just made the same point without disproving his point. Insta-kill classes are not fun to play against, and benefit from lag, spy or sniper. Spy can kill you before your monitor shows their movement, sniper can do the same.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

Weird how spy can supposedly do all of this and yet this is never seen against good players

[@samuels1123]

My point in differentiating them is more to focus the video's points, including snipers opens the bot flood into discussion which is a pain to address. Bots definitely should be fixed but also exploitation of network speeds as it has similar effect on the quality of matches.

[@samuels1123]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron Looking at most content creators that play TF2 you can find that they blended the details into soup to improve game speed, turning the game into a battle of 'who can optimize their network the best'.

[@PracticalProblems985]

Great video man. I love to see talented people give their well explained opinions in this community. You've got great editing, an SFM representation of yourself, and informed opinions. Keep going and you'll establish yourself as a great TF2 content creator. And don't worry about the accent it just makes you stand out among the community.

[@korjezilla]

This is the most based comment this video will probably ever get. Thank you !

[@Baron_Raven]

Are you a volcano or something? Because you just melted my heart.

[@greenisnotprimary]

@@Baron_Raven PICKUP LINE TO THE MAX

[@ozof8077]

why this korjezilla guy literally overdosing on copium in the comment reply section

[@korjezilla]

Why are you reading all the comment replies? I am so anooying, I can force myself into the video itself 1:23

[@Baron_Raven]

Who are you talking about? It's your imagination... Time to take your pills.

[@ozof8077]

@@Baron_Raven the "korjezilla channel" guy im talking about

[@korjezilla]

@@ozof8077 (It's alright, one day they'll believe you)

[@Naenov]

Maybe its just your imagination?

[@HalfDaft]

Its tough, because in “fixing” trickstabs puts the spy into a situation where he can only play proactively, an example a spy walks up to a engi that just about to kill another player and the spy walks up to the engi for the stab but sudden the other player dies to the engi’s shotgun and the engi turns around, what does the spy do? Does he butter knife the engi to death for 40 dmg as the engi is able to react and shoot the spy, back up and flee or even beat the frenchie with a wrench (crit lol) then the spy is most certainly dead, the spy cant react, pulling out his gun out back up and try to take 3 at best 60 dmg shots verus engi’s two shogun shots. A spy would have little to no ability to react to a player suddenly turning around as a quick strafe to try and recover the stab would unlikely work, and if an engi walks forward swinging his wrench, a spy cant sidestep that get a kill, which would teach and engi that walking up to players to beat them with their wrench instead of backing up and shooting would be a better option I could go more but i think that spy having a reactive approach like a trick stab helps give spy’s a chance to not get caught( which lets be clear is very easy) and die instantly, is trickstabs a perfect thing now? Your video shows that it is flawed but its less a gameplay thing and more a server system and trying to fix a server problem with gameplay fixes i feel would create a spy with a lot less in his kit if he inevitably gets caught

[@HalfDaft]

Short summary because its a long read, its not a skill issue, its a software issue, lets fix the software, not the players ability to apply skill by shrinking the backstab radius (again) your other solution seems like how spy first was, but may be different in practice, but i cant be sure. You could theoretically add some sort of check that asks the server if the player being stabbed is in a proper position to be stabbed And one last think, if you feel like you are being bombarded with the same rude messages over and over, you did essentially say that all spies that trickstab are cheating even if it’s something that they don’t have control over, like yeah if you headshot someone around a corner, even if you didn’t see them go around yet, you are a cheater. Doesn’t go well with people

[@MrMan-lg6bh]

I’m not a spy main but I do think that they should buff spy’s regular melee damage to 45. I imagine it’s annoying to die to a light class that’s on 5 health. Shame we don’t get any updates though.

[@odd_bobble9106]

TL:DR Why are you anywhere near that spy, every class has a ranged damage option to spychesk and kill spy’s with. Better question, why are you letting a spy get that close to you? A spy has lots of tells that give him away and anyone you suspect is a spy can be easily determined by shooting them. If you shoot them once, you should be able to land following shots. Land 4 good shots with the stock shotgun and that spy is toast. Now let’s look at some other situation where you are following a spy and you see he is running towards a corner, ramp, stairs, or any large open area without any of your pesky team mates around. Before he gets there a scout should be hitting him with a scattergun or pistol, a soldier should be hitting him with rockets or a shotgun, pyro is setting his ass on fire with any of his primaries and half of his secondaries, demoman has already turned that ramp into a bomb capable of rendering the whole team to chunks, heavy shouldn’t even be following instead revving and turning that spy to Swiss cheese, engineer honesty is fixing all his buildings and is calling for anyone else to go deal with the spy, medic SHOULD be hitting him with any ranged weapon he has but let’s be honest that 25% Uber is too good to pass up, sniper has already shot him (in the head if they are good/lucky) and the other spy is dealing with the exact same thing on the other side of the map.

[@korjezilla]

The thing is. Spy's main weapon is melee range, so it isn't US who is getting near a spy. THEY are getting near us, because they have to be at close range for an insta-kill. Kunai and Big Earner let's you do hell of a ton chainstabs. Watch some trickstab fragmovies and think why no one can counter them.

[@society1876]

​@@korjezillayeah uhh, hes supposed to get close to you. thats the entire point of spy

[@korjezilla]

​@@society1876 Exactly, so how can you avoid being close combat with him?

[@Inlet]

Witnessing the footage in the beginning, it's disgusting. You could pretty much view this as exploiting. Back in the days in HL2 Deathmatch, people would tweak their latency settings so they'd become unpredictable to hit registration while in motion. This is pretty much abusing the mechanic of latency without tweaking anything. Your suggestions can definitely make these trickstabs less of a viable career path, pushing more for the intended playstyle of the Spy. 2:06 - hehe, that was neat

[@korjezilla]

Yeah, kind of the same thing. Tweaking their latency. Why would they do it? To gain an advantage. And what's getting an unfair advantage called? Cheating.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

And then spy is unusable against someone who moves their mouse occasionally.

[@korjezilla]

​​@@HeDronHeDronHedron Shut up, stop complaining already

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

If we want more intended playstyles we get rid of a lot of stuff Scout- He doesn't have much but I guess BB uber building would count. Soldier: While rocket jumping is fully intentional in TF2, it wasn't in quake. If quake followed these steps we wouldn't have rocket jumps. We would also have no trolldier, as the rocket jumper isn't for trolldier but instead for practicing rocket jumps. Pyro: The entire supportive pyro playstyle is gone. Demoman: Sticky jumping initially wasn't intended and was only later made official. Also no more demoknight Heavy: No more fat scouts or friendlies Engineer: No more battle engi Medic: No more combat medic Sniper: Again not much but I do suppose razorback-next-to-sentry combo would be gone (This one I don't think anyones complaining about) Part of the charm of TF2 is seeing just how ridiculous some strategies get and then watching them be somewhat effective. A spy jumping around above people giving kills from above fits that. Stop trying to force your playstyle on everyone, especially if said playstyle adds to the skill ceiling.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla (He can not avoid the spy moving in a straight line towards him)

[@YeEpIkAiYeI]

What I just don't want in the game is me backing away from the spy and he still able to "backstab" me even if I am backing away and looking at him Honestly is frustrating the huge ammount of spies that think they are good at the game by abusing this game exploit and also by straight up increasing their ping/lag in order to not be hit and be able to confuse peoplr from where they really are and backstab them from 5 meters away

[@Baron_Raven]

That what I was telling all this time!

[@candymanva9629]

@@Baron_Ravenno you weren’t? You’re “solution” is something Spy had in the beginning of the game, and this problem was still around. This won’t change anything.

[@Baron_Raven]

Yes, I was? The whole point was about spies able to backstab you even when you look at them. About solution, I know it's not perfect. I think it's different a little from fixes Valve tried to implement at the beginning. I still think it could work. However, I have an idea for even better solution without disadvantages of fix suggested by me before.

[@swordslash50]

bro is ONTO NOTHINGGGGG 🗣️🗣️💯💯

[@jimmybuba2683]

I think if you would have used the the word "Cheap" instead of "Cheating" you would have receive less hate because of the stigma the word Cheating has in tf2 community

[@korjezilla]

That just ruins the whole meaning and doesn't fit the video

[@jimmybuba2683]

@@korjezilla ok :c

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla From the spy's perspective it usually looks like a normal stab. I don't htink we should just teach spies that sometimes their melee just won't.

[@Antzukk]

I get the argument. However there is a major difference between getting unfairly killed and playing stupid. So what is playing stupid? Well let's look at the first two clips shown. In the first clip you are 1. Fighting a clearly competent spy capable of trickstabbing and dodging bullets. So you go to poke him, while he has 210 hp? 2. Now no matter what in this situation you will lose because you only have 125hp. 3. And even if you win, he is guaranteed to be using the dead ringer which means he'll leave as soon as he sees that he is losing. Outcome = You wasted your time as a spy to get keypicks fighting the class you are not supposed to fight while dying in the process. In the second clip you are 1. Keep chasing a spy while a medic and pyro appear to assist you with him. 2. You could've easily just stood back and peppered him with your trusty smg while the pyro and the medic chased him but decided to chase him anyway. 3. There are now 2 people blocking the medic's melees. 4. The spy seemed to be originally going for you. You must've been pretty effectively as a sniper. He will happily get himself killed as a pick class to kill you. Outcome = You died as the sniper to a spy that you were safe from just to maybe get a smg kill that you could've gotten anyway while staying safe. The spy wasn't even a threat to you after the pyro and medic appeared. The second clip was not even a trickstab which is tricking a player into showing their back. It was a circlestrafe which is based around using your movement and movement habits against you to backstab you. They tend to look even more questionable and require you to understand your own movement avoid them. Playing against a spy is like playing chess. You don't get awarded by following what the spy is doing. You get awarded by predicting what the spy will do. Just like in chess you seal your faith before you die. You made your mistake before the stab but it feels unfair because you got punished by a completely different thing than tracking the spy. Playing stupid. Everybody plays stupid sometimes and the longer the encounter lasts, the more likely this sometimes becomes.

[@korjezilla]

In the first clip a pyro was trying to kill him. Pyro is close range. In the second clip...well the author never opened his back to the spy?

[@Antzukk]

​@@korjezilla Let's see what the pyro did wrong was it: A. Walk in a straight line B. Not airblast C. Not stay at max range of the flames D. All of the above? Now what about the second clip? Did you even read what I wrote? He got circlestrafed around the side it usually looks that the spy is either next to you or with lag on either side 45° to the side of you. Although in this clip the spy is pretty in front but walls might cause some jank sometimes. A great example is the first clip of Klown's Trickstabbing streamers.

[@Antzukk]

@Fujitachi When you are doing a circlestrafe you are not tricking them into showing their back. You can predict a circlestab and still get stabbed because it is about being outstrafed.

[@Antzukk]

@Fujitachi The definition of trick is a cunning act or scheme intended to deceive or outwit someone. You ain't deceiving shit you are outstrafing them. And you surely aren't talking about trick as a peculiar or characteristic habit or mannerism.

[@gekohno]

Bro played one match of degroot keep and wasn't standing for what happened to him. Edit: not that I fully misunderstand

[@korjezilla]

Funny joke

[@Flutters_Shygal]

If you consider trickstabs to be cheating because of the way TF2 handles lag compensation, then headshots would be counted as cheating too. You can be fully behind a wall, but if you were not 0.2 seconds ago, the sniper could still headshot you. It's not cheating, it's simply knowing how the game works.

[@metalslug55516]

Do you know that most people agree that sniper is kinda broken as it is? Even the devs have said that, if they where to nerf/rework a class it would probably be sniper Playing sniper requires some skill, yes, but the reward for that "small" skill gap is basically deleting 5 out of 9 classes in one headshot, requiring one more shot (not even a headshot) to finish 2 or 3 more Now add to that the fact that headshots can be BS sometimes if hitregistration and hitboxes are lagging or similar due to server connection - Something the player has no control over it

[@ZizixxSamurai]

As a Medic main, I disagree. Trickstabs make Spy a viable pick option instead of useless cannon fodder, and usually letting Spy get close to You means death either way. I like the video, but I still think trickstabs are not cheating, they are just like trickshots but melee.

[@korjezilla]

Because spy is the weakest class without them, right?

[@ZizixxSamurai]

@@korjezilla Kind of.

[@korjezilla]

@@ZizixxSamurai Wrong =D

[@ZizixxSamurai]

@@korjezilla That's why I said "Kind of", it depends on the player.

[@korjezilla]

@@ZizixxSamurai That is the same as saying "every player is weak unless they know how to play" Literally skill difference

[@assasir2905]

using your logic i would then make sniper only do headshot damage when crit meter is fully loaded because quickscoping is a broken mechanic cuz valve intended for sniper to take his time to make his shot, in other words skill issue af

[@Baron_Raven]

Sniper already has 0.2s Zoom-in headshot delay. I would increase it a bit, yes, but definitely not limit it to make headshots only with full charge. It's already good enough. You either will make a quickshot, and most of the classes could survive first shot, or charge your shot, giving enemy the opportunity to notice you and take cover.

[@The2Coolest2]

No offense but you seem (like many) are not veterans which is understandable, they really aren't around anymore. Trickstab tutorials have existed since the game started. To prove your point though, it was sort of thought as exploiting/abusing the system. There's tons of updates at the start of the game from valve dealing with it. But at the same time it was believed at least to players at the time I played with it Just ended up being some unique thing for spy. I always wondered if a TF3 became a thing, whether it would be fixed or it would be an intended class design. Also your idea of a delay with the knife raising existed at the start of the game but was removed as they were dealing with the issues.

[@korjezilla]

Yes knife raisidng has existed but it was broken. It wasn't the only suggestion how to change it tho. Trickstab tutorials might have existed before but I don't think they were as hyped as 2014. It wasn't invented as soon as the game launched which means it wasn't a feattr and definitely not an intended class design

[@aniros116]

i heared that most of these "facestabs" in game just becuse valve inted you to play on in 4:3 with 75 fov.Apply that to your face stab and its almost always a reasonable backstab. +only because the problem of laggy spies exist doesnt mean that spy ment to be nerfed. but he editing and sfm's was great by the way

[@korjezilla]

It's not a fov issue.... We showed it at 1:23 Our fov and resolution are higher. Yes, it's a lag compensation issue

[@JakeTheJay]

I personally don't agree with the video, but the editing definitely was well done!

[@lucasrio9228]

because its still cheating

[@JakeTheJay]

@@lucasrio9228 How is it cheating to move to the side to click on a back? It's bot cheating just because someone is a little laggy. Good spies don't even use trickstabs except for rare moments. Only people who want to master that are people farming clips rather than trying to actually play spy.

[@korjezilla]

​@@JakeTheJayBecause you should not be backstabbed when you see the spy. Putting a sentry out of bounds is also not CHEATING cheating. But it's unfair and you're taking advantage of game issues, which is basically cheating.

[@JakeTheJay]

@@korjezilla How is it taking advantage of game issues? A smart player would just not run into the spy if they saw one. Trickstabs are just a trick, and are easily beatable as long as you aren't stupid and enter the melee range of the spy

[@korjezilla]

@@JakeTheJay It's not like spy's whole design is about getting close to the enemy with weapon speed and kunai health to insta-kill them for even more buffs

[@balling4853]

So, you're telling me that I cheat everytime I play spy?

[@korjezilla]

Perhaps

[@Baron_Raven]

No, it means you cheating every time you trickstabbing.

[@balling4853]

@@Baron_Raven but I'm using trickstabbing to save myself :(

[@korjezilla]

@@balling4853 You can also shoot them or escape

[@Zero_713]

@@korjezilla and what about corner trickstab, stairstabs, airstabs, does are not cheating right? And trickstabs are not always cheating sometimes the guy really turns the other way and you really backstab him

[@C.A._Old]

1:38 1:39 1:40 NOPE! Nope! -Scout & Engineer Voice Line's.

[@filipemrbean2]

Keep the 180 radius, the HU units for rising the knife and any other shits possible not shown in this video... but the backburner and backscatter have the same radius instead the reduced 90º (? at least i guess is 90) Its the BACK isnt? So BACK it is! fair enough now, isnt? ooooh gonna cry? everything on pyro and scout is too op now? OoOoohh cry me a river! I NO-TI-CED the disguised spy, i'm doing a good job to keep myself facing him but naaah! all ok with this moronic mechanic let him facestab me a I.K ¬¬ and get even worse when counting ping on it, even if is just a lil variation is already enough to give a niiiiceee slice of advantage to let spy do it

[@filipemrbean2]

@@tf2mad Dont "exist" ofc! I see the spy dude RIGHT in my front, but his attack connects to my "back" Yeah... i guess i need believe in you instead of my eyes or the complains of years and years of people playing it. . . About the backburner and backscatter I already follwed people going in a STRAIGHT LINE and that, unexplicable, did NOT made crits! But naaaah in that case theres will not be any BULLSHIT of...: "trickstabs rely on perfect movement and strafing as well as good gamesense (and believe me that spies don't deliberately use latency to their advantage - latency is intentional and unavoidable, not some kind of a "cheat")" ...coming from your mounth, isnt? . . "- spy used to have a shorter backstab radius but it had to be extended later due to massive amounts of failstabs spies'd get" Stop, you are making me get a booooner! . . Blablabla "Start blaming yourself" repeats the catchphrase like a parrot.

[@filipemrbean2]

​@@tf2mad Ohhh so he is fricking Saitama doing the "Serious multiple Sidesteps"!? ok i get it now (/sarcasm) So in reality he's behind me and not exploiting the "giantonourmus buggalungus" backstab radius area the video shows. . . FFS, i set a trap and this ahol e did not took the bait or did not know! IIRC... The problem with this other 2 "back" guns not doing crit when you get someone in a "straight line" Its because the "back" hitbox in some characters is not "exactly on the back", its tilted to one side even when it moves forward, which make the reduced angle even more retarded to hit. i thought you would do this point DARN i even let a pre-written response for you in case this point came T_T... Lol like i care! even if you didnt took the bait, i gonna post it anyways :P~ptthHHfhfhH . . *Blablabla something-something of me trolling you that you "actived" my trap card XD * Oooh so lets see if i understood... in the case of spy he have THIS GIANT radius shit as shown in op's video to achiev a "backstab"...and with a CLOSE range weapon (your own words, my good b*tch) But in case of long range (also your words, my good b*tch) of Back Scatter/Burner its "ok" it be slandered? (Also iirc, its slandered to spy too, buy since its "giantonourmus buggalungus" big... what matters?) Its FAR away with less angle, so even if you use the "evil unfair distance to it have the same radius of spy's backstab" as you tried imply, in the end this means...GREAT SHIT! The hitbox target get smaller because the distance to properly land hits! So in to resume: The "so hard skilled cool mvp mlg" Spies have a giant radius to use his >CLOSE RANGE WEAPON< to do the INSTA KILL move While Back Scatter/Burner users need learn and memorize where each class back hitbox is pointing to try hit A CRITICAL "at distance" and GOOD LUCK with that! Since its tilted + reduced angle sometimes you need literally aim in a very narrow place to make the "afterimaging server" to understand: "CRIT happened" (The Backscatter pellets spread too much? Poor users can cry in a corner, dont complain ok?) Sincerely it seems the Backburners and Backstabbers users are the ones with... Here comes the "parrotal" catchphrase.... more skill?! ahhhh XD I'm 5 y.o and you are a demagogue.

[@korjezilla]

@@tf2mad Great argument! One small issue, backstabs not only melt, but insta-kill anyone. The thing about this "cheat not cheat" you are talking about is that no other class can abuse the lag compensation, because it doesn't ever matter for them. Bullets hit you regardless, depending on enemy's aim; melee is just melee range, but trickstabbing is a completely different story. Spy has to be behind an enemy in order to get rewarded... But you can just stab them in their face, therefore facestabbing. Everything else you said, I don't care to argue about, except one thing. Are you seriously defending someone for putting thousands of hours into this, even tho it's unfair? Let's defend serial killers or closet cheaters! Because it's so hard to hide from being found. They have some great skill hiding their crimes! Come on, they put effort into their interests, that makes them better than the others

[@tf2mad]

@@korjezilla every class can benefit from lag compensation the same way as you can get "facestabbed" for eg a heavy can kill you if you're behind a wall due to lag. When this happens nobody seems to care about this as much as about "facestabs" Lag compensation is an integral part of the game's design and it's just something we have to deal with. And yes, if you put thousands of hours into practicing a skill to later get called a cheater or lag abuser I'd call that unfair. Tho comparing someone who dedicates their time to master a maneuver in game to a serial killer or a closet cheater is just sad on your part. But you're right, if they put effort into their interests this makes them better than average players and I suggest you do the same :) this is my last response so yeah have a good day

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

The only issue here is latency of the server. You should still get to do trickstabs, but latency should be fixed so it doesn't look like a facestab.

[@Baron_Raven]

That's what I am talking about! I am okay with trickstabs. I just need proper feedback.

[@ihavespoken9871]

Ok, you heard the man. We need to remove very glitch from TF2, especially backstabbing. Because glitches = hacking. So that means no more rocket jumping. No more sentry jumping. No more air blast jumping. No more bee hopping. No more air strafing. None of that. Because those are all hacking. Thank you so much for marking this video to expose the disgusting TF2 players who abuse these methods and ruin the game.

[@evdestroy5304]

Most of those are intentional, and bunnyhopping actually *was* removed, so your point is kind of moot.

[@ihavespoken9871]

@EVDESTROY no, bee hoping still exists. And air strafing was unintentional. And I don’t think Valve intentionally designed the engineer to rocket jump with his sentry and wack people with their wrench. And although soldier was designed to rocket jump jump to reach certain heights, he was never designed to become a living rocket and fly across the entire map. And you have to take in account all the different types of rocket jumping glitches you can perform. And airblasts were designed to reflect projectiles, not to launch yourself at the enemy. So no I think your point is kind of moot lol

[@evdestroy5304]

@ihavespoken Both knockback jumping and air-strafing have been a thing since the Quake days, so yes, they are very much intentional. Air-strafing is also the entire gimmick of the mantreads. There have also always been alternative ways to blast jump with other classes even before Team Fortress 2, with all the classes having grenades and Pyro having a rocket launcher and all that.

[@ihavespoken9871]

@EVDESTROY yeah, Mantreads were only added after people starting exploiting the air strafing glitch. It’s the same reason why they gave the boot legger for Demoknight which now that I’m thinking about it, Demoknight trimping was never intended by Valve so I guess trimping is cheating now I guess. They better remove that too

[@korjezilla]

@@ihavespoken9871 You see, they do remove exploits. Or have we never seen that kind of stuff? Just because you CAN go under the map, doesn't mean the VALVe want you to. And airstrafing...is just an extension to a rocket jump code. It is coded to work that way and it is not a glitch.

[@AbcDefg-tq3ju]

hopefully this video either gets deleted, or someone popular makes fun of it so that no mindless drones actually end up believing this 4 and a half minutes of seething over getting trickstabbed is actually relevant

[@korjezilla]

My brother in Christ, WE are the popular who make fun of people abusing it =D

[@GleebieDeebie]

Explanation or no explanation, a class where the outcome of an encounter is depended completely on there skill instead of mine is unfair, tis be the reason I dislike sniper as well

[@korjezilla]

Wait, are you saying sniper is mistake based?

[@The_Mesh]

trick stabs are like rocket jumping something you can learn to make you better and get more kill at a cost of your time and practice

[@PhobosAnomaly14]

Rocket jumping is an intentional game mechanic, backstabbing someone that is facing you is not

[@linear1224]

@@PhobosAnomaly14 Blame that on interpolation, not trick-stabbing.

[@objectionablycurious]

@@PhobosAnomaly14 they're only facing you on their end. Server side? it's fair game

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@PhobosAnomaly14 And rocket jumping was unintentional at first. I don't think trimping is intended, doesn't mean I make a long video calling it "cheating"

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@PhobosAnomaly14 Facestabs are not intentional. Running around back to someones back? That sounds more intentional. You see their back You click their back That could not be more obvious.

[@_the_spy_8867]

As a Spy-main(beginner at trickstabbing) I do understand your opinions and possible fixes of that. BUT, let's not forget that Spy is the most Fixed class of all the time, I'd like to mention that Failstabs exists as well. Spy is an extremely weak glass-cannon, while other mercs can do something to become better, all the Spy can learn to become a Professional at his job - Backstab Hitboxes, Movement and variety of possible tricks to perform. Like, we all know what actual Spy's gameplay is useless against good players or those Heavy-mains that looking back every 2 seconds without a reason. Trickstabbing could make Spy an escape from dangerous situations. Like, we ain't got any Team Balance, so there's no class limit, everyone can just go Engineers, One Pybro and that's it - your team can do nothing against it(even with Über) while you struggling to sap all this stuff and not get caught by Pyro. It's not like I can't kill him, it's quite easy for me since I'm practicing Ambassador a lot, but trickstabs makes its perfect. Still, while all light classes could easily get their killstreak depending on their skill (Scout with his speed and mobility, Sniper is always on backlines, Engineer is mostly near their Sentry and team), Spy's life depending mostly on luck(a decent Spy I mean), Just tell me, what can you do against a Heavy that spotted you up close and already started to rew up his Minigun? Cloak away? Nope, too late and your silhouette will spot you. Dead Ringer? Maybe, but good Hevay-main won't let you rest, even if he has a large backstab hitbox. Shoot? DPS too low to kill him, unless he's on low health, but that's not likely for him. The only way to avoid being killed is trying to trickstab him or lure him into a trap(corner, box that you could trickstab him from, stairs and etc.) Melee Hitboxes are shit for every class, so first of all we need to change those. Edit: Thanks for reading this much, gentlemen.

[@korjezilla]

Thanks for sharing an actual opinion and not an insult

[@_the_spy_8867]

@@korjezilla actually, kinda sad that there's so much rumors floating through the Internet, what all Spy-mains are weebs and typing every possible slur in chat after got killed(sorry for my English). Spy has quite high skill ceiling, the problem is what you need to understand everything at once and remember it through your games. And dying every time makes me depressed, this feeling of being useless but interesting character in lore, is horrible... It's not like I never get mad, sometimes if I died a lot of times, I'm making a duel with that one mann, who dares to laugh at me, while using pocket medic... So, nobody's perfect, me neither. Just to say, I like more basic Spy, but with Ambassador. His lore are fascinating, mysterious man in a suit that using stealth to kill others... I wish one day costume fashion will be back. Again, looks like I'm over typing again about my thoughts. Anyways, thanks for that comment a lot, Spy-mains are not getting compliments such as this so often. Just like men getting compliments in anytime, quite a rare interaction. Thx for reading this much again

[@korjezilla]

@@_the_spy_8867 After playing spy for 500 hours I can say that I still have a lot to learn. I main this class and I still can't say I'm good at it.

[@Baron_Raven]

Sometimes you got a bad day and there is no other choice than do a trickstab. I demand only one thing. If trickstab is successful (either due spy's skill or enemy's lack of reaction), victim shouldn't see a spy on his screen at the moment of is death.

[@vkdo5.461]

@@Baron_Raven Какая разница видит он шпиона или нет?

[@omarnasr3799]

How the hell does korjezilla have more that 400 comments here bruh 💀💀💀

[@korjezilla]

I come here often to read comments

[@unr34L-]

Wow that is horrifying

[@JustinS_Madness]

Waiting for spy mains, who will explain trickstabs is fair and not gonna be nerfed.

[@Moshael460]

Oh hi

[@korjezilla]

Waiting for spy mains to make a response to this

[@twvnk]

this entire video is calling on a nerf for an inconsistent, difficult to pull off technique that has been around since well over 2014 on the worst class in tf2. i'm a demo main, but even i think this video is dumb because it at no point addresses how easy it is to hold S against a spy trying to trickstab you

[@korjezilla]

@@twvnk Second clip of the video

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla we don’t see the spies screen so we can’t exactly see the effort he put in

[@creeproot]

Даaa так верно

[@vej5010]

who let bro cook 💀💀💀

[@rrasdasd]

fr

[@wuketuke6601]

i think another issue spy has is when hes clearly behind an enemy, and it just doesnt count as a backstab?? like, i have been in many situations where spies got the backstab on me but it just didnt count? So i also think that there should be a small window where stabs from the front also count as backstabs if the spy has been on your back for long enough. and im saying that with spy as one of my less played classes

[@jerryqua-2733]

sometime it highlander bug or anti backstab cheats, you just don’t know this

[@wuketuke6601]

@@jerryqua-2733 it happens to me too where i clearly should have been backstabbed, but it was a butterknife instead

[@Noonelmao121]

It’s prob adjustment

[@jerryqua-2733]

@@wuketuke6601 welcome to Spy main life where missing pyro head and demo using flamethrower. Im spy main so i feel this pain, and about the video it just make spy even a worst than worst class, trickstab make spy have more mobility so take that it not a good thing just keep it. More over i understand most of people making these type of videos is because dying to spy by trickstab or being fooled by disguised

[@kuzyera]

@@wuketuke6601 that happens if you hold w too much when going for a stab. When you hold w and they press a strafe key or go back diagonally youll miss the stab 90% of the time. Literally a skill issue not knowing how to time stabs. And the exact same skill issue in which players cant avoid trickstabs. There is a solution to everything, you just dont know it

[@bibisebi]

I enjoyed playing tf2 a lot more before people starting trickstabbing more frequently

[@AParticularlyPointySoldier]

Just gotta get that turn prediction on point.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

mr "Trimping should be patched and spy should be nerfed even further" has officially folded

[@korjezilla]

What do you want from us? You actually come in here and check the video's activity? Unlike me, you don't have a reason to do so

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla i want you to make a good take for once

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron Did you listen to a word I said? I thought I already told you, wait for the second part

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla you know what i will watch the entire video with timestamps and highlight everything wrong with that

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron Thanks I guess but I think you are too invested in it for a regular TF2 player

[@Kohchu]

Personally, Trickstabs for me, are part of the game. However, the earlier builds of TF2 had different hitreg for the backstab (it was closer to what the Backburner currently has), leading to backstabs being harder to hit; the animation was also way slower, so in general, Spy in the past was a very different class, specifically designed for stalking and ambushing. But admittedly, it did make the class very hard to use... so improving the radius wasn't a bad idea (same with speeding up the animation). For me personally, Trickstabs are more or less are exactly what they look like. A Flashy, desperate attempt to escape by taking advantage of TF2's ridiculous hitboxes. Intelligent Spys will go for them if the opportunity presents itself, but most Spys will attempt them, and fail horribly, being insanely obvious and super easy to kill; but a pro trickstabber using the Kunai can become basically unkillable if your team doesn't understand what he wants to do. And in Casual; they feed off newer players, and moderate skilled players who just associate trickstabs with lag or facestabbing. In reality; they are what they should be: An Option in the Spy's arsenal. The issue really, is that a large majority of the Spys using trickstabs, ONLY go for Trickstabs. Which only highlights a bigger issue with the technique as a whole: Trickstabs stop being effective once people begin expecting them. So what will usually happen is; the Spy will go for a trickstab on an unsuspecting player; kill them, and then try it again, only to die the next life because that tactic only works like once or twice. Then they'll rage about Spy being ineffective or whatever class killed him being broken; while failing to realize that if you play Spy like a moron, you're destined to get slammed into the wall by the classes built for direct combat. Personally, my favorite thing to do when a Spy is spamming trickstabs, is to just go Pyro and shut them down with flames and Airblast. Most of them rely so heavily on Trickstabs, they've yet to figure out how to deal with a decent Pyro. Bonus points if they are using the Spy-cicle and whine about Pyro being broken.

[@gekohno]

This comment does work, but the fact that you switch to pyro to stop them is kinda exactly what they want. Seeing someone switch classes to counter them is such a massive ego boost and the hardcore trickstabers live for ego boosts.

[@Kohchu]

@@gekohno Most of them from my experience, actually rage when you switch to Pyro, especially if you keep shutting them down. Because many people doing trickstabbing, aren't skilled enough to handle a Pyro Player who knows how it works. They only Trickstab. If I find a Spy doing trickstabs, I can generally shut them down as Pyro... unless they actually have good aim, since they could use the Amby or Revolver to outrange me. At that point, things get more interesting. But, the point really is just to see if I can set them off. usually, if a Spy Player going for trickstabbing can't handle Pyro, they'll either feed you kills, or rage switch to something else.

[@italianbuffoon9953]

bro are you seriously trying to nerf spy further, it's already worst class

[@korjezilla]

That's a nice argument. How about you back it up with a source?

[@italianbuffoon9953]

@@korjezilla source: scout is fast and a generalist, great at offense and defense with lots of damage soldier has very high burst mobility and 2nd highest health in the game, also great at everything pyro is a support class (which also directly counters spy) that can reliably defend the team's important people like medics and engineers using airblast demoman has 8 explosives in one gun, 'nuff said heavy, while not good at EVERYTHING, is really good when paired with a medic and is always a good choice on defense. engineer is a support/defense class that can do good damage with the sentry gun and can also support the entirety of his team with the dispenser and teleporter medic is considered by many to be the best class in the game, can heal the entire team more efficiently than the engineer, which is the other healing class, making medic the best healer and also he has hp regen and 8 seconds of invulnerability if he stays alive for longer than 40 seconds sniper is literally better spy, being able to assassinate everyone given that they're not ubercharged or out of his (sometimes ENORMOUS) sightline spy is just kind of there, countered by anybody turning the fuck around

[@korjezilla]

@@italianbuffoon9953 Spy, insta killing anyone with high speed, can easily escape with different watches and knives. Has a very strong revolver, immune to sentries, can use enemy dispensers, teleporters and payloads, can sap the buildings. I dont know what else you need for a perfect class to main.

[@italianbuffoon9953]

@@korjezilla first of all "high speed" isn't even true. he has a 7% boost compared to the standard speed of 100% but it's not enough to make a difference. second of all, to insta kill anyone he needs to be behind them at melee range, which then produces a loud-ass sound warning the entire enemy team. he can't "easily escape" with different watches and knives either, they require a lot of skill except for the dead ringer but that's another argument, plus if a heavy or a pyro hits you by chance, you're instantly dead basically. he doesn't have a very strong revolver, it has worse damage than all other primaries in the game, except the syringe gun (because medic does not do combat and it's very much the last resort), he is immune to sentries only while disguised, plus sentries normally have enemies around them that frequently spycheck. he can use enemy dispensers, a hotspot for enemies that will accidentally bump into you or notice that you're colliding with the dispenser since you're a spy. about the teleporters and payloads, yeah i can concede that except for the fact that enemies can notice you being a spy if you're using the payload due to the icon in the bottom not displaying the spy too. the sappers get destroyed with 2 wrench swings and the engineer is most likely close to the buildings (also engineer has higher damage than spy even on his own)

[@korjezilla]

@@italianbuffoon9953 So when it comes to spy you can only mention the bad things... I can do that with aaaany class in the game. Using false claims to prove it is a weak class.

[@mrbooboostankReal]

Interesting video, I've thought for a while on how trickstabs would be affected by everyone having 0 ping, as I've noticed that it often looks like enemies are chasing where the spy was a moment ago (due to ping) rather than getting the server's true view of what's happening. 0 ping trickstabs would be a much fairer battle of reaction time, mind games, and mouse space (cheesy but not a ping problem), but until online play becomes as fast as LAN it can't happen. I'd love to see an analysis of how trickstabs work on LAN, because I believe a majority of the problems people experience with the backstab hitboxes are coming from the inherent delay of online play. The current design certainly feels great to backstab as the attacker, but for the defender it's a battle of connection quality or denying the possibility of a stab on the server's end (backing into a corner, airblasting the spy, staying multiple arms' lengths away from him) Some of your changes would be interesting to try. I've seen the argument that for every trickstab you'll get a failstab, funny that both stem from ping. Spy already arguably needs a buff but if trickstabs got nerfed he'd need a bigger buff

[@linuxization4205]

This is the guy who has 600 hours on sniper, and spy is one of his least classes. This entire video is obviously bias.

[@Tracks_was_taken]

bro he has probably more hours then you

[@linuxization4205]

@@Tracks_was_taken and you haven't even seen my profile. its obviously you who liked your own comment, but okay

[@korjezilla]

Fact: Baron Raven reset his stats and achievements 3 times. Another fact: I am a spy main and we made this video together. It's not bias, it's an objective fact. Now would you provide actual arguments instead of measuring the amount of grass a person has touched?

[@LalitoTV]

If you take away trickstabs, at least make normal stabs more consistent. So how about, make the backstab a projectile with short range (Like the back scatter), not a melee hit, and if it hits an enemy's back, it will instakill, this would take away backstabs when the opponent is not actually 100% in front of you or your crosshair, but at the same time making regular backstabs entirely consistent

[@Baron_Raven]

Maybe, but I think it all about risk. The whole game designed about closing distance with the enemy to get more damage. You should risk by getting killed to quickly kill an enemy with backstab.

[@LalitoTV]

@@Baron_Raven dude, playing spy is already a huge risk, if anyone notices you you're instantly dead, unless you use the dead ringer, but the again the dead ringer is more like a faster respawn because if you try to fight again while slightly injured absolutely anything will kill you

[@UltraxEmerald]

Combating trick stabs is like pvp in a souls game.

[@BOB-jf2gv]

Just strafe bro use your a and d keys

[@Telejaba]

Just press S lol

[@helix5729]

Tf2 players really so starved for content they're out here complaining about the most benign shit 💀 Learn to keep your distance from good spies and you're golden.

[@korjezilla]

You can't keep your distance when spy is the second fastest class in the game and appears in front of your face ☠️

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla I’m sorry but that is literally not a problem for good players

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron That is not skill problem. It is just facts.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla Ok but then how do good players avoid trickstabs

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron If good players can avoid tricktabs, then why do people keep trickstabbing?

[@bottle7443]

What about Cl_interp

[@Mf_CHIP]

Changing CL interp doesn't make you better, it's a mit

[@SanryoBrosYT]

0:22 Of course is using the fucking kunai

[@society1876]

why is the comment section plagued by this "korjezilla" guy can someone get him out

[@Baron_Raven]

No.

[@korjezilla]

Let me answer those questions with a question, -Who wants to make sixty dollars? Cash.- Why is the comment section filled with people who came here to be toxic?

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla because this is a ridiculous video made by someone who tried wm1ing a spy and got trickstabbed and everyone is laughing at him

[@korjezilla]

​@@HeDronHeDronHedron Pretty sure you just can't take an opinion and refuse to listen

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla your “opinion” is that spies should not be able to backstab people when they see a back.

[@nilspace]

spy is not an overpowered class. people love the quirks of all source games and embrace them as mechanics all the time. playing the tiny frail frenchman as offence is pretty funny too imo. also nerfing trickstabs like this would make it even harder to get a normal backstab aswell.

[@Baron_Raven]

I am not against playing spy offensive. I just want a proper feedback from the game. If it tells me to look at the spy to avoid being backstabbed and I still see them on my screen, this is wrong. If I don't see a spy while being backstabbed - it's my skill issue.

[@ANKNOK4]

Ребят , вот честно : кто-нибудь из вас, играя за шпиона, может прожить чуть больше, чем тот же скаут и или снайпер? Я думаю нет. Так, почему бы нам не считать трикстабы, как способ просто выжить? Например: вы встречаете снайпера, он кидает в вас мочу, а вы вместо того, чтобы убежать, будучи буквально обоссаным, и сдохнуть от перво-попавшегося пиромана (из-за урины вас можно увидеть в инвизе), разводите снайпера и делаете ему чистой воды трикстаб. Если вы можете подумать, что совершить такой маневр почти нереально, то вы чертовски правы! И в этом-то и дело! Вам нужно быть действительно опытным игроком, чтобы сделать такое. В таком случае, трикстаб, совершенный вами, был оправдан с учетом всего затраченного времени, которое вы уделили, изучая этот класс. Но некоторые могут воспротивиться : " Это же удача, тут никакой науки нет!" , " Это и новичок мог сделать, будь он удачлив!" - и ведь логично,- не стоит забывать и о возможности ударить в удачный момент, никак не подразумевавшийся, как спланированный маневр. Но тут есть одна простая вещь. Такой придиркой можно описать многое в тф2 : ненарочно попавший крит, случайно появившийся противник и многое другое. Вот и получается, что трикстабы - это либо такая же игровая механика, как маркет гарден, полеты с помощью поводыря, аирбласт , либо же это простая удача, которая встречается и на других классах.

[@korjezilla]

Стоп, а мой коммент не отправился или где он? Я говорю, вообще такого понятия нет как "прожить дольше чем скаут или снайпер". Это на опыте вывозится. У меня КД минимум 4 за раунд на шпионе и это у меня ещё и skill issue. У других ещё больше бывает. Класс нормальный, если тебя обоссали, просто револьвер достань. А если хочешь узнать, как спай может убегать с места преступления, у меня на канале простенький видос последний. И нет, трикстаббы это не механика.

[@Baron_Raven]

Во-первых, "манёвр" и "механика" - два разных понятия. Трикстаб - манёвр, Рокетджамп или стикиджамп - механика, аирбласт - механика, прыжок на ракетах сентри - манёвр. Во-вторых, выживаемость скаута зависить от его уворотов и умении выбирать схватки. Выживаемость снайпера зависит от дистанции и охраняющих его тиммейтов. Выживаемость шпиона зависит от умения скрывать своё присутствие и, как и скаут, выбирать правильные бои. Если ты, замаскировавшись за противника, бежишь на него в лицо, нагло активируешь дэд рингер и постоянно маскируешся под один и тот же класс (скаут, например, частый выбор) - тебя всегда будут видеть издалека. В-третьих, у тебя есть револьве для самозащиты. Одно из самых недооценённых оружий. 80 единиц урона в секунду базового урона, а точность позволяет держать среднюю дистанцию, где тебе легче уворачиваться от проджектайлов и где огонь до тебя не дотянется. В-четвёртых, я не против трикстабов как таковых. Просто если меня затрикстабили, я хочу НЕ видеть шпиона перед моим лицом. Если я его потерял из виду, это моя вина или огромный скилл шпиона. Если я НИКОГДА его не терял и я умер от удара В СПИНУ, когда игра сама заявляет, что такого быть не может - это нечестно.

[@ANKNOK4]

@@Baron_Raven Во-первых, "ВоОбЩе-То, пИшЕтСя МАНЁВР, А нЕ МАНЕВР🤓🤓🤓🤓" Во-вторых, так никто, уверяю тебя, не играет за шпиона. Ты вообще в тф2 часто заходишь? В-третьих, самое-недооценённое оружие - Солнце на палочке, а из револьвера и каждый второй не умеет целиться, да и скучно просто тупо стрелять во врагов. К тому же, пока ты будешь "самообороняться" тебя любой другой класс успеет догнать и размазать обо все, что можно. В-четвертых, так обернись, если тебе не пофиг, как тебя убивают в шутере. С чего тут ты наплакал на целый видос?

[@Alcopatriarch]

@@ANKNOK4 никто не играет за шпиона? Лол. Смешно-смешно. Револьвером не умеют целиться? Тогда надо учиться играть, лол, все учатся целиться оружием в каждой игре. А если тебе не интересно стрелять, тогда как ты вообще играешь за другие классы, там же тоже нужно стрелять. Тем более никто не говорит что нельзя использовать что-то помимо револьвера. Всмысле обернуться? Мол когда шпион подбегает к лицу, нужно сдаваться и оборачиваться спиной чтобы он бэкстабнул игрока, вместо трикстаба? Ну блять, давай короче при виде врага будем прекращать стрелять, чтобы он нас застрелил, ведь такая у тебя логика. Нужно ЧИНИТЬ проблему, а не придумывать подобные бессмысленные советы из разряда "ну ты тогда разворачивайся перед тем как тебя трикстабнут, чтобы твоя смерть была честной".

[@ANKNOK4]

@@Alcopatriarch Деда, ты таблетки забыл выпить? или все ещё не понял, что это был сарказм?

[@painisweaknessl]

Ты что русский?

[@korjezilla]

Украинский акцент

[@marcotulio3884]

His ideas may sound good on paper, but steam already tried most of these ideas. Of course, they didn't do like you said, but I still think it's a bad idea, considering it would make spy even worse than he already is competitively, but also make it even harder to just pick him and play, rendering him unusable by anyone. (And, of course I am a spy main)

[@korjezilla]

That is exactly why you are a spy main, because he is usable and works just fine

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla yes, and these fixes are proven to work poorly. Well, I guess that means we leave spy as is

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron No, we fix the facestabs. And make spy more fair. These fixes were not really proven to be bad

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla But they were both tried before, and were terrible. Also, if we fix facestabs, we have to fix getting random butterknifes when clicking an opponents back

[@W3tPaint]

nerf the weakest class or just keep your distance from spies

[@filipemrbean2]

Just let me recall you that in The jungle Inferno uptade, if i'm not mistaken, gave spies a 10% walk speed bonus.... which made all this problems pointed in this video get a lil worse! After that it was easier to get close and kill your hard counter (The Pyro) and now EVEN the passive counter (Scout, because his speed)! However i'll agree that SOME of the nerfs in SOME items spies use was a little hard

[@korjezilla]

"Spy is the weakest class" - said no one ever and kept making a career around maining spy

[@oneshinyboi3083]

@@korjezilla Literally all competitive players claim spy is the weakest class, it's just factually correct

[@DecibelHZ]

@@korjezilla Spy easily has one of the lowest skill ceilings comparative to his high skill floor, most other roles at their peak ability can beat a spy easily.

[@korjezilla]

@@DecibelHZ lowest skill ceiling Okay, that's new. You can't put "spy loses in a 1v1" and "spy has nowhere to improve" in one sentence. You literally lack skill yourself

[@gamer99941]

i agree but why make a class weaker than it already is? spy can get killed by most clases. His items can make him more deadly but that's it he can still die really easily.

[@korjezilla]

kunai + dead ringer = too strong

[@gamer99941]

@@korjezilla why don't you fix it then? valve has been trying to balance this class for 10 years

[@korjezilla]

@@gamer99941 I have no idea why you are offended by one of many suggested class changes

[@gamer99941]

@@korjezilla you replied on my comment mate

[@korjezilla]

@@gamer99941 yes I did I still don't understand why you think spy is weak when so many people main him

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

Ok since I apparently need to watch the video and have some time heres why this video is wrong The first shoulderstab definitely seemed to be more lag. I won't deny hitbox played some part in it but if you reduce hitbox but don't remove lag you'll still get facestabs Now as for the data travel time part it's hard to really pinpoint that as "Cheating". Back when interp was a thing I'd definitely consider that at least sketchy because you could get stabs you weren't supposed to, but now it's hard to willingly abuse interp for stabs. Then in the data travel time part you literally say that it shows a normal stab on the spy screen. So, what is the spy supposed to do, if he walks towards someone and they show their back? Should he just not stab them because there's a chance that it might just be lag? Should he killbind? As for the solutions they are just terrible. The first one would completely gut spy, this was a thing when TF2 released and everyone hated it. Imagine sneaking up on a sniper, while you see his back and your knife is out, and then he turns around and melee kills you and you can't do anything. The second solution wouldn't actually fix facestabs as if it lags enough you could still facestab with it (This one was also tried) The third one is just a combination of the 2 and doesn't count. The "Trickstab meta" isn't really a thing. It's the same idea as a "scout double jump meta" or a "soldier rocket jump meta". You can obviously equip items to make this particular technique more useful but it's really just a standard part of spy's kit. Actually trickstabbing was popularized because spy was pretty irrelevant then. Instead of "Abusing broken game mechanics" I think of it as "Having a 1v1". If you go for a trickstab you are asking "Can you predict where I go and punish me accordingly". The spy is putting confidence in his movement and aim to position himself where he can punish the opponent for being predictable. This is good, since it increases spy's skill ceiling, buffs him, and makes it so people have to think before wm1ing a spy for +25% uber. And as for the "Intended spy playstyle is stealth" Demoknight isn't an intended playstyle nor is trimping and yet people love that Spy already has an item to save him when he fails at stealth: It's called a gun. You can't remove one thing that breaks spy's intended playstyle and not remove another. If I had to choose between Tf2 where you HAVE to play these rigid class roles and Tf2 where you can bend the rules based on your class in unique ways I'd choose the second instantly. And even then a different playstyle isn't "Cheating". Trolldier is using an item specifically designed for only practicing and yet that's not cheating, killbinding out of a potential ubersaw isn't cheating, even using the razorback as a trickstabcondom isn't cheating. None of these are intentional, but people do them and they don't really have negative impacts on the game, so what good reason is there to remove them? Also there's lots of talk about "Facestabs" and "Backstabs when you're staring at the spy" but never any talk about "Butterknifes" and "Getting a butterknife when you're staring right at the opponent's back".

[@korjezilla]

What a load of bullcringe that I will have to answer

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla (Can’t dodge the predictable spy since he has to walk in straight lines)

[@korjezilla]

"Since I apparently need to watch-" No crap, Sherlock! You need to watch the video and hear the arguments and present your counter arguments!!! No one is touching any hitboxes, you still don't get it. Reducing the angle of backstabs. I don't know which stab you are talking about, but tell me how that facestab on 0:39 is fair at all. Data travel time is NOT cheating, tricktabbing in perfect conditions is NOT cheating, but due to how the game and our world works, what matador stabs are is basically an abuse of that tiny delay we have. You don't turn to the spy, he sees your back. Interp still works. And do you know what interp is? Manual increase in delay. Increase. The delay is already there, it just makes it worse. Spy is not supposed to killbind. If people discover game breaking exploits, "what are we supposed to stop playing the game?" JUST DON'T USE THEM! As a spy main, I agree that decreasing the backstab angle is fair. Since spy's balance was designed around backstabs, thus coming BEHIND the enemy. People don't need those extra angles to be behind someone. Can't backstab someone? Use your gun! It's strong; "Third solution doesn't count" That's one of the dumbest things you've said. Third solution gives you MORE opportunities. Literally, more variety and abilities than previous two suggest. You have instant backstabs when you are behind and you have wider angle if you wait for mere 0.2 seconds. I don't know what you are complaining about. You said spy needs that wide angle and instant backstabs. Well we gave you both wide hitboxes and instant backstabs and you say "it doesn't count" Bruh Trickstab IS NOT an intended MECHANIC nor FEATURE. Double jumping is part of scout's basekit, as well as anyone's movement speed. Rocketjump is NOT a glitch, it is a scripted MECHANIC. Are we gonna say "oh, disguising is a bug, because in TF Classic it was a glitch" ??? Trickstabs were INVENTED by the community. And I have no idea why you say that revolver breaks his stealth, that, no, it doesn't. By your rules, knife can also break stealth. Wow, what a surprise. You come up to someone's face and hit them. Not very stealthy. What we mean by "stealth" is disguising properly, using invis ect... What people turned spy into is. Disguise as enemy scout (worst decision), take 1 HP damage and use dead ringer, abuse its speed and try to trickstab with kunai to return the health, go for a chain-trickstab. That is completely broken and is not how spy's balance was supposed to be. "Demoknight isn't an intended playstyle" what kind of deranged thought is that. Is using shotgun on heavy ALSO not intended? "Fat scout goes brbrbr" It's a weapon, existing from the very release date and people make it sound like something new and unintended. Butterknife isn't really a thing. it's just a NON-Backstab melee damage from spy. It's like complaining about a no-scope damage. Also we do not really support trimping, at least the Tide Turner one. And did you say razorback is not made for trickstabs?... Razorback is made to defend you from backstab damage. Let me remind you again, trickstab is NOT a mechanic, it's a maneuver. You have a hammer, it's made to hit nails. If you throw the damn thing and it hits a nail from 5 meters away, that's an unintentional way of hitting them, but it did it's thing, right? It doesn't matter if you jumped from a toilet or got airblasted at the sniper's direction, if you hit his back with a knife, the razorback will save him. And one final thing, server only detects backstabs as a condition that happened. Spy and server sees trickstabs as a backstabs. Only the victim can tell you, if it was fair or not. Not all trickstabs are unfair, like dropping from a building on an unsuspecting enemy, it's just a fancy backstab.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@korjezilla So what is a spy supposed to do if he gets caught, someone runs at him, and the spy sees their back? Is he just supposed to kill bind? Remember that he sees their back, has his knife out, and is facing them. Then you have to remember that interp not only messes up backstabs as well but can strike even if the enemy doesn’t know you’re there and then turns around last second. Also you don’t seem to remember: all of these solutions existed at one point and they sucked so bad. And obviously it’s not “intentional”. Is not being “intentional” a bad thing? Or can we say “As a spy, if you have no way out, you might still be able to reach the enemies back”. Finally your spy gameplay analysis is just so wrong. I can find a video right now of a spy going against pretty good players and finding success with multiple weapons (He does use the ringer, but also the other invis watches so it’s balanced out). And again your fixes were both implemented at one point and they were terrible.

[@korjezilla]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron So you straight up defend cheating? Why tho. And mind you, these changes were not in the game :/

[@ariezon]

considering the risk spy took before having all that trickstabbing? no, it's not cheating. by this video definition, good sniper will be considered as cheating because they can quick scoped in close combat when supposedly they're weak in close combat

[@korjezilla]

By your definition taking risk to cheat a world record Speedrun, carefully put it together and put as a real Speedrun without anyone noticing is skill and not cheating

[@DarkPriest2288]

​What are you on about lil bro @korjezilla

[@korjezilla]

@@DarkPriest2288 What do you think?

[@ariezon]

@@korjezilla are you ok? Why are you comparing spy with cheating?

[@korjezilla]

@@ariezon Because by definition, trickstabbing is an unfair advantage with an illusion of counterplay. It works only because the target is unable to protect themselves from it due to funky data travel time.

[@DenDen-fv8bf]

its actually balanced Cause its can be countered, and its very rewardable if its not countered

[@DenDen-fv8bf]

and its also very hard mechanic, so its not even problem

[@korjezilla]

Bots aimbot can be countered if you play heavy with vaccinator, because all they do is shoot bullet damage. Their mic spam can be countered by muting them. And plus they are very easy to kick. So I don't see a reason to complain about them.

[@DenDen-fv8bf]

@@korjezilla Bots is not game mechanic + its forces you to do specific conditions And to counter trickstabs you just need to watch out lol

[@totesmcgoats7094]

@@DenDen-fv8bf You could say the same thing about trick stabbing. Its not a game mechanic is a bug/Glitch

[@Baron_Raven]

It's neither of them. It's just a maneuver.

[@metalslug55516]

You know you hit a nerve when the spy mains reunite to mald and call "skill issue" a proper/honest complain about the nature of trickstabs Believe us spy mains, as a Pyro main I feel nothing but respect when you got a stab thanks to your skills/I got fooled but the very nature of you having a "trickstab" just because how awful are hitboxes and hitreg in the game is just as lame and absurd like that fire particle that linger a bit more even if it was invisible/far away from you and destroyed your hiding spot just because hot hitregistration and hitboxes work

[@blakjaket4472]

if youre gonna get trickstabbed, just airblast. (also a pyro main)

[@metalslug55516]

@@blakjaket4472 That's why I said "If I get fooled" There's been a lot of times that even after airblasting or trying to outmaneuver a soy, he gets me. In those times I just say "Nice stab" or just acknowledge I got outplayed On the other hand, there's that spy that even if I have him basically against the corner and in front of me at all times, just bc the server registration decided to favor his connection, a butterknife to the face gets registered as a backstab. In those moments it feels like BS

[@KamagerIII]

mf really talking about hitreg to slander spy when it is a mechanic that damages spies given that it affects melees deciding not to hit because the games decides so Also janky hitboxes are something that help like every class in a way or another, trickstabs for spies, huge ass flame particles for pyro that connect multiple times, impossible headshot with the sniper, both with and without the bow, it got fixed recently but bigger iron bomber pipes for demo, scouts being even more elusive than should be because of some shit hitbox reason, so I say everyone gets their piece of bread from this situation, not just spies

[@AbcDefg-tq3ju]

if you have a spy in a corner and he closes in on melee range whilist youre playing a class with airblast, then sorry, you're objectively just a terrible player

[@metalslug55516]

@@KamagerIII Hitreg and hitboxes are BS in game and everyone knows it. There's times where is ruins a game and I (personally) tried to avoid it If I get a BS stab due to hitreg/hitboxes shenanigans (if I play spy) I apologize and same with lucky headshots, flares, pipes and kills in general As for the "huge ass flame particles" at least they got kinda fixed since the Jungle Inferno update, making them more consistent and not total BS like before where a single particle hitting for a second would give you the full time and damage of afterburn - And that's without going into how particles worked as a whole in that time (albeit, those are still imperfect)

[@morutama]

Удивительно, что одновременно идея видоса не несет никакого здравого смысла, но при этомпреподнесена она настолько качественно и креативно, что с этой идеей хочется согласиться… но все же ты не прав.

[@morutama]

Серьёзно, все сделано просто на немысленном уровне

[@korjezilla]

И в чём же он не прав, интересно?

[@noshutup6617]

Interestingly, cool vid (:

[@blakjaket4472]

cl_interps abuse should be nerfed, but nerfing a class that is already bad at head on combat would be dumb. Most of the time I'm trickstabbed it's because of my own bad movement or suprised by a spy who suprised me.

[@liamfos234]

is so easily to counter a spy when you know about it

[@Baron_Raven]

Medic's design is simple. He is not able to fight classes head-on. His weapons are weak at attacking, but strong for self-defense, forcing you to find a teammate to rely on fighting for you, while he relies on you for healing. It doesn't make him a weak class. Spy's design is also simple. He is a master of sabotage. If you can approach an enemy undetected, you can kill them with one hit. If the enemy founds you, you are dead. Enemies can easily spycheck, but they can't watch their back and fight your teammates. You need teammates to make a distraction. You also possess a strong revolver that will help you in a tight situation.

[@blakjaket4472]

@@Baron_Raven a spy shouldnt be able to br a consistent head on class like medic, but as a spy, using tricky movement to outplay someone is more than fair considering that most of the time you get trickstabbed, you're either misstepping or suprised by the spy. trickstabs hitreg csn feel bs, but honestly they arent enough of a problem to warrant a nerf considerinng spies class is already inconsistent enough. Spy is in no way a weak class, but hes weak in head on combat. No need to make him even weaker by separating the little control he has over engagements. (nice vid tho, I see where you're coming from cus trickstabs are jank)

[@korjezilla]

​@@blakjaket4472You have a revolver. Use it. Or just simply don't 1v1. Spy is consistent if you have enough skill

[@blakjaket4472]

@@korjezilla yeah, but the revolver's existence doesn't mean trickstabs don't have a place in the game. say you failstab a full health or overhealed class as they turn around in the last second, you sometimes still have the chance to trickstab which you might as well go for it as you're probably gonna lose if they're at least competent with their aim. trickstabs and revolvers occupy a different niche. just because somethings jank doesn't mean it should be removed.

[@katrov1153]

Шпион

[@korjezilla]

На нашей базе ШПИОН??

[@Thebestbobbyboy]

So what are you saying is Nerf spy even more? I’m a spy main, even if I wasn’t, I think spy should get buff instead of Nerf

[@cleangameplays2990]

i don't main spy, but you said true things

[@korjezilla]

I play spy and spy isn't the weakest class

[@liamfos234]

spy is the most weak class, him without trickstab is nothing

[@DistortedDebaser]

The professional gun spy:

[@korjezilla]

Also his revolver...

[@liamfos234]

@@korjezilla is balance to me

[@liamfos234]

@@DistortedDebaser the all anothers class with a gun:

[@Mf_CHIP]

I disagree

[@itzdi3g076]

When pyro main gets trickstabbed:

[@questionableopinions2949]

To bad valve won't do anything

[@evdestroy5304]

Yes. I don't think it's really "unbalanced" per se, but it is pretty dumb that a Spy can sidestep you while you're looking at him and poke you in the arm for an instakill. It's the same reason facestabs are a thing, funky backstabbing radius + lag compensation.

[@AbcDefg-tq3ju]

in 2009, the backstab radius was nerfed, and this change was reversed almost immediately due to even non spy players agreeing on how horrible it was

[@lisovski]

Man, that was awesome! But if you introduce these changes into the game, then the spy's will become useless. Spy is a slow class, so his only target will be heavy, because other classes are too fast for him (soldier - rocketjumps, demo - stickyjumps, pyro - envelops the whole area with fire 24/7, the rest are just faster than a spy). Newbies will disappear only a few will learn how to play the spy (even in the current state of the game, I manage to smear back-to-back, although I have been playing TF for more than 500 hours. (Or I'm just an idiot)). I like your Russian accent, reminds me of Sokol from Payday 2. Good luck with your content creation! GLORY TO THE SPYCRABIA KINGDOM!

[@korjezilla]

Spy is the second fastest class in the game. These changes are really subtle, spy will not become useless at all.

[@lisovski]

@@korjezilla nope. Scot and medic faster than spy.

[@korjezilla]

@@lisovski Yes. Spy is not slower than medic.

[@korjezilla]

@@lisovski Spy's speed is 107% which is as fast as any other class except Scout, which makes him the second

[@Baron_Raven]

Spy's speed is 107%, as well as medic's. Other classes are not jumping on explosives 24/7 and it costs their health to do so. Pyros almost never spycheck without reason. You will be actively searched for only if you have been noticed.

[@tarlapanul5828]

This vid needs some music

[@korjezilla]

Maybe. But it was hard to think of any good music

[@Baron_Raven]

Thanks for advice.

[@AyoKhan]

​@@korjezillawho are you

[@korjezilla]

@@AyoKhan I'm the person without whom this video wouldn't be possible, according to the video credits at least

[@AyoKhan]

@@korjezilla nuh uh

[@Noonelmao121]

KZbinrs makes video why trickstabbing is cheating after getting trickstabbed 98 time in row

[@korjezilla]

Have you seen how many times people say "You were in front of you" and thought to yourself "Hell, maybe they are right"

[@Noonelmao121]

@@korjezilla that happens once’s in a while

[@badassgibus]

You forgot to mention how the attack comes from the right side of the spy. Meaning that by moving to the right you basically increase your attack range for nothing and stops Legit backstab from happening because you were slightly to the right when behind them thus your arms snakes around there back and into there face.

[@arlwiss5110]

This is complete bollocks where did you hear it lmao

[@korjezilla]

That's like actually insane and untrue

[@skullbulldozer9309]

*Spy mains be like*

[@memoman_yt]

man run of tf2 they found a infinite money thing for mvm DONT JOIN ANY MVM MAP they are bots that make so you cant upgrade in your acount making mvm unplayable valve sucks spread the word _mat_

[@korjezilla]

We'll see how long it takes to fix it

[@ToM-ee2ln]

o p e n

[@korjezilla]

You've opened the box! I CAME

[@ThatNoobKing]

Close

[@Palpatine248]

Yes trick stabs are cheating so next you should cover how walking is cheating

[@icyyChill]

no way its almost like the skill based action that requires time and effort to learned is powerful

[@samuels1123]

How is network response time skill based

[@korjezilla]

No way stealing requires skill and people who steal well don't get caught. What a skill to have. Everything you just said was insane. The video talks about how using this is unfair and you say it's hard to do, so it takes skill

[@icyyChill]

@@korjezilla so true bestie

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@samuels1123 people know how trick stabs work, and therefore their movement can play a big part in your success You must identify what you need to do and then have near flawless movement, and while it’s true network can mess with that that can apply to most classes anyways

[@Techlessss]

Pyro main got trick stabbed

[@poiwerinoidias5416]

I can't believe you coped this hard.

[@korjezilla]

Just shared an opinion*

[@Eternity504]

@@korjezilla not only that but also how bad he is at countering trickstabs.

[@korjezilla]

@@Eternity504 How often do you get sniped by a bot?

[@Eternity504]

@@korjezilla not often :)

[@ivanych6231]

​@@Eternity504I smell liar

[@butthole5614]

Wow. The comments under this video are very Well, idk

[@PoopFarter1]

bro yoy really took a five minute video to explain to us that you have a skill issue

[@C.A._Old]

Once Upon Times 180 degrees Side Stabbing Late 2000's Team Fortress 2 Now these days 160 Degrees.

[@Jontohil2]

I disagree with the idea that trickstabs are cheating. In fact trickstab obsessed dead ringer spies are some of the easiest players to counter, by simply not getting into trickstab range. (Though cl_interp 5 and using lag hacks ARE cheating) But I do agree that trickstabs are over-hyped. Like I said, they’re incredibly counterable if it’s your only trick and people see it coming. I say trickstabs are the LAST thing you should learn as spy, so you don’t become overly reliant on them. I myself don’t trickstab often, and tend to use it as a wild card (though I use trickstab methods on people who fall for my disguises), you don’t NEED trickstabs to be a good/great spy, you can top score without them. Especially at range because you know... SPY HAS A GUN I tend to kill pyros way more with the gun than with trickstabs, because it’s much more reliable. Data travel time is always going to be a factor, unless all players somehow have a single digit in ping, you just can’t deal with that, it’s how online games work.

[@Baron_Raven]

Yep, data travel won't go anywhere. That's how our world works. But it still sucks when you never lose a spy but he still stabs you just because on his screen he sees your back.

[@ihavespoken9871]

Hey, Jon

[@Jontohil2]

@@Baron_Raven unfortunately, it really isn’t going to change because the way it works, especially with hitscan attacks. It’s designed for favour the attacker, because in most cases with hitscan, you feel it more when YOU miss but not when the enemy does. It just has the side effect of making trickstabs look weird from the victim’s POV, or why sometimes a heavy will seem to kill you right after you broke line of sight, or a sniper that headshot you right after you crouched. Back when TF2 first released the changes you suggested actually existed, but it made it too difficult to land backstabs on anyone who wasn’t standing still, and it was changed to what we have now.

[@greenisnotprimary]

this guy is my idol

[@greenisnotprimary]

spy has a gun gag EVEN IN THE COMMENTS OF A RANDOM VIDEO (did I say I love this guy)

[@someone4229]

Nerfing spy won't work, the way multiplayer lag works cannot make this right

[@Baron_Raven]

I agree, it's impossible to fix data travel time issues. However, we can play around that.

[@JimmyMcgill869]

im gonna try to explain whats wrong with this take without it being aggressive back in 2009 with the scout update, valve originally reduced the backstab radius from 180 degrees to 160 degrees (while also removing the infamous "delayed" backstab swing spy had on launch in 2007. This change was designed with the same purpose in mind that this video has: spy isnt supposed to be running around trickstabbing, and it is potentially confusing to newer players to get backstabbed from what looks like the front. However, within a matter of weeks, this change was immediately reversed. The TF2 community at large, spy main or not, agreed that the change was not a good one at all, as surprise surprise, fixing a network related issue by changing something with the games consistent balance, does not infact affect the network related issue: "facestabs" were just as common as they were with the previous (and current) hitbox, and along side it? A terrible scenario where a spy would walk up behind a sniper standing still, and upon knifing his back, would be given a butterknife, despite the scenario being the totally intentional one, where a spy simply walked up behind someone and clicked for a backstab, and not being on the screen of the other player. Players could also shake their mouse rapidly, resulting in the area of their back that didnt count becoming disjointed, allowing for them to essentially have a permanent razorback, and one that valve themselves scoffed at in the blog post reverting the change: "players running around the map with their back against the wall to exploit the smaller stab hitbox". With that out of the way, it seems like you and others have claimed that spy is "more than just trickstabs". This is true, spy in high levels of play is almost entirely focused on shooting with his revolver, as it is reliable and effective against all players, regardless of skill. The problem is, trickstabbing itself not being spies main tool against players to defend himself, just makes the whole argument of this whole video pointless, because why nerf normal backstabs, something established to have been a bad idea that would not work already, in attempt to remove something that isnt really a big enough issue to be considered a "balance" factor on the class? There isnt one. Backstabs, and the backstab hitbox, on its own, is a well balanced mechanic, that offers a clear "to do list" for both players: the spy should attempt to be behind the player, indicated by his knife raising, and the player against the spy, to check their teammates, and to turn around, making sure a spy is always on their screen: the backstab hitbox allows this scenario to work completely perfectly fine, with 0 issues. What results in the janky facestabs and failstabs (by the way, what about those? is the other player cheating if the spy gets a butterknife against a players back for the same exact reason?) is something that is an unavoidable, yet iconic issue with online gaming as a whole: lag. Even now in 2023, we still dont have perfectly lined up LAN level connection, and we sure as hell didnt have it when this game was put together in '07. To put my own stance at the end here, for the year it came out and as someone whos been playing spy since then? Its pretty good for its time, and after seeing the evolution of "trickstabs" since stabby stabby first coined the term early in the games life span, it, as well as spy himself, are just part of tf2, and trying to tamper with something that valve got the best deal with long ago, just doesnt work, and most balance suggestions regarding such age old strategies, have almost always already been discussed and the case has already been closed, leaving us with the best case scenario we will ever really have with this game regarding backstabs.

[@midnight_marshadow]

I'm not reading that but it's nice to look at

[@unr34L-]

@@midnight_marshadow nobody asked

[@midnight_marshadow]

@@unr34L- nobody asked you either

[@unr34L-]

@@midnight_marshadow cope

[@МаксимКамышенков]

You watch trickstab compilations because you think they're really cool and you want to replicate them. I watch them to learn all the ways to avoid getting trickstabed for my next encounter of a spy main.

[@Mf_CHIP]

Based

[@greenisnotprimary]

trickstabs are overrated

[@Eternity504]

i use trickstabs when practical

[@greenisnotprimary]

@@Eternity504 this is exactly how you should use them.

[@Eternity504]

@@greenisnotprimary honestly seeing a spy trying to trickstab me when a backstab is more viable just looks funny

[@user-k5y8l]

Valve actually tried that hitbox nerf but reverted it back