It was supposed to be the community of tomorrow, the solution to all London’s social ills. Did it work? Ha ha, no. Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jagohazzard Patreon: / jagohazzard
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@Voyagerch753 жыл бұрын
"Respectable crimes like mortgage fraud" really made me laugh.
@madderz3 жыл бұрын
Not wrong though :)
@LewisCollard3 жыл бұрын
I'm reminded of that Todd Snider song: "Lead our children from living these lives of crime that they're living out in these streets, and lure them into lives of crime that take place indoors" (from "A Timeless Response to Current Events").
@MrSloika3 жыл бұрын
He may as well be describing what took place in Murica during the housing crisis. Interesting how much alike the US and UK are. Now that the British are no longer Europeans, they should seriously consider becoming the 51st state. They'd have everything they have now plus more....such as the right to go bankrupt if they get cancer and let's not forget automatic guns for everybody. YEEEEEHAAAAA
@rodjones1173 жыл бұрын
@@MrSloika Bad as Thamesmead was (by British standards) it was nothing like some housing project in an American inner city. Not even close. The rest of your post doesn't even make sense. Britain left the EU - leaving Europe would be geographically impossible. And I do know what you're talking about, but you're just wrong. There are huge differences between here and the US - the two examples you quote (healthcare and guns) being amongst the biggest.
@johnm20123 жыл бұрын
@@rodjones117 Pruitt-Igoe?
@martinmargerrison23003 жыл бұрын
My uncle Sid used to work there. He was a rear gunner on a milk float.
@itsMe_TheHerpes3 жыл бұрын
what ?
@jauntyangle56673 жыл бұрын
He deserves a VC.
@JonCarlos913 жыл бұрын
@@itsMe_TheHerpes they’re saying the place wasn’t very nice!
@ratna19843 жыл бұрын
Oh, Sid was a lucky fella, 86% of Milk Float casualties were in the front.
@thornbird67682 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣 love it
@snich633 жыл бұрын
If only there was a way to foresee a development without shops, businesses or transport links would be a failure!
@antonliverpool13 жыл бұрын
And a concentrated cohort of deprivation
@w1swh13 жыл бұрын
And a lot of exterior institutional grey colour, adding to the deprivation, depressing!
@AFCManUk3 жыл бұрын
Call Captain Hindsight! :)
@w1swh13 жыл бұрын
@@AFCManUk Good point, he's always 20/20
@chrisstephens66733 жыл бұрын
Steve., but there is such a way - change things from what people like. Edit for people read mr and mrs joe public not some pretentious dogooder think they know best psychology studies failure with an architect as a best mate with an ego complex.
@steved81933 жыл бұрын
"Nothing ages so quickly as yesterday's vision of the future.” - Richard Nelson Corliss.
@dom94123 жыл бұрын
Should bald people have rights?
@Ichioku2 жыл бұрын
Barbican anyone?
@cjr65643 жыл бұрын
I used to play on the Marshes before Thamesmead was built. The Marshlands alongside the Thames were far from desolate wastelands. There were farms and small cottage industries all along the river. One of my Late Uncles had a pig farm on the marshes. Like most "new towns", the architects dream soon become the residents nightmare.
@pyellard30133 жыл бұрын
He might have been a fascist pig... But Mussolini built some new towns that are today attractive and nice places to live...
@writershard50653 жыл бұрын
To be fair, a lot of the dreams just weren't properly implemented. And when things aren't build as designed, they tend to fail. That said, there is a point to being unable to design for an entity as unpredictable as human society. Design requires predictability, and while you can mostly predict us, there's always gonna be problems.
@damianhunt21874 ай бұрын
They should have left it how it was. To build anything decent costs a fortune
@misterthegeoff97673 жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up near Thamesmead in the 80s I never had any idea it was supposed to be a different vision than every other concrete sink estate around it.
@GustavSvard3 жыл бұрын
Almost all concrete estates were planned to be different fromt he others, this time they'd make it work! Same all over Europe. As long as you didn't go for building a district that was an actual city/town though, because that would be Bad for some reason.
@Dec381053 жыл бұрын
@@GustavSvard they were all a council dumping ground from the start.
@GustavSvard3 жыл бұрын
@@Dec38105 Not all, but most were in practice that yeah. I know a couple ones in Stockholm were designed to be "like Venice" with cars and pedestrians fully grade separated. Turns out that is a real bad planning idea in practice unless you're in like central Hong Kong. Also: the metro that was to be the transit integrated into these two areas wasn't finished for like 5 years after people started moving in!
@jackiebayliss3 жыл бұрын
I lived on Manor Way in 84 for a year. That was long enough.
@peterjohnson49323 жыл бұрын
Ah yes. Another area of outstanding natural concrete.
@bryan35503 жыл бұрын
Quotable. You are on the Money, Sir! 😸
@Bug_H3 жыл бұрын
😂😂
@joannehowe75132 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!
@iansteel14473 жыл бұрын
I lived near Thamesmede in the 80's, and when I was depressed and wanting to give up my job, would drive through it on my way home just to remind myself, things could be worse.
@Dexduzdiz3 жыл бұрын
😆🤣😂
@skullsaintdead3 жыл бұрын
That's so interesting that you'd drive through it as motivation. I'd drive through to compliment my mood, not lift it. If I was really depressed, I'd walk through, probably get shouted at that I was going to get raped, maybe some POS would oblige.
@DJDreadnought3 жыл бұрын
you lived there but some how cant spell it hmmm
@skullsaintdead3 жыл бұрын
@@DJDreadnought In fairness, a persons capacity to spell has little to no bearing on their ability to tell the truth. They also said they lived *near* there and just drove through...
@rin_etoware_29893 жыл бұрын
a large part of the problem, i think, was that they half-assed the original construction. they never built the shopping center and the transport links, then they expected the urban utopia to still work? that's like using newspaper to join prefabricated high-rise parts together, then wondering why a gas explosion brought a big chunk of it tumbling down-
@laurencefraser3 жыл бұрын
... I mean, I'd wonder that too... How on earth did it stay up long enough for That to be what did it in?
@pyellard30133 жыл бұрын
You are absolutely right... The miserable tower block suburbs of Paris wouldn't be so bad if they at least had decent transport links..
@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus3 жыл бұрын
That sounds like Ronan Point on the Kier Hardie Estate in Newham......A large chunk of that fell down doe a gas explosion.....poor build quality was to balme!
@caitthenerd74702 жыл бұрын
@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus That was in fact the joke, well done
@midnightmosesuk3 жыл бұрын
I lived in Thamesmead from around 1971-76 and I always remember it as being a wonderful place to live. We'd moved from a Victorian tenement on Albany Road in Southwark into a bright, brand new and luxurious maisonette on Maran Way in Thamesmead and it was like paradise. No rats, two indoor toilets, no mold, no rubbish, no tramps kipping in our doorway, it was everything our old home wasn't. The elevated walkways were perfect for us kids, play was safe with no busy traffic to worry about. I could ride my Chopper from one side of the estate to the other without ever going down to ground level. Going into Woolwich for shopping wasn't too difficult as we were fairly well served by busses and there was a little shopping precinct just a short walk from our front door and a large health centre right next to it. Socially we had something we'd not experienced before, neighbours we could actually talk to and would talk back. We made friends with several of the families on our street (platform? Section?) and I had quite a good circle of friends I used to play with. I am obviously painting the place with a rosy hue. I suspect we were lucky enough to live there in some kind of golden age for the estate. It was new and the rot hadn't yet set in. I was devastated when we moved in '76, to Peckham of all places. I'm not saying it didn't have its rough elements, it did even then, but when I was there the experiment was working. At least for me.
@Leonards-leopard3 жыл бұрын
I think it’s important to hear the positive side of thamesmead. In this country anything new and experimental tends to get viewed negatively
@midnightmosesuk3 жыл бұрын
@@Leonards-leopard I think you're right, the Thamesmead experiment was going very well when I was there and, from what I gathered, the dumping of undesirable elements into the estate were what "did it in." Maybe they should've kept that vetting system going. Another feature I'd forgotten to mention is how much nature we had around us. We could go to the lakes and go stickleback fish with nets and jars. There were many local footpath that went through some quite rural places in the surrounding area and in the autumn we'd go picking blackberries and come back with a bowl full. Also some farms were still working just outside the estate limits. You could walk out there and see horses and goats and other farm yard animals. You can see the appeal of such a place to a kid who's previous home was a slum.
@rodjones1173 жыл бұрын
@@Leonards-leopard Did you ever live there, or even go there? Thought not.
@xaverlustig35813 жыл бұрын
@@midnightmosesuk I think you have a point there. The fact that 1970s housing projects decline into social ghettos is often blamed on the architecture, when the real reason is that mostly poor people move there and the middle and upper classes avoid them for whatever reason.
@petermontgomery87072 жыл бұрын
I’m in the north east and I’ve got a few towns built near me with similar thinking.For a while during the 80s when the north east closed for business they seemed grim soulless places but now they seem to have settled down to something very like their original vision.They seem to work pretty well
@BarryAllenMagic3 жыл бұрын
Thamesmead was that rough, even the pigeons flew over it upside down.
@steve05923 жыл бұрын
And the tom cats went round in pairs, each with one eye closed.
@samuelfellows69233 жыл бұрын
😆
@barrykirkby96263 жыл бұрын
Best giggle I've had all day..
@TotallyBaroque3 жыл бұрын
I have lived in Thamesmead for 36 years and though it has its faults, since Peabody took over things have improved enormously. Yes there are a few problem families but in my area it is generally quiet and peaceful. My biggest complaint is the poor transport, rail is the only way of commuting into the city and the service could be better. Hopefully when Cross Rail opens sometime in this century, this will help.
@sims4sarah3 жыл бұрын
I lived there for 15 years and my late husband was a lifelong resident who was heavily involved with Radio Thamesmead. It certainly does have a reputation but also wasn’t a bad place to live. Sometimes reputations are exaggerated and self fulfilling.
@dodgydruid3 жыл бұрын
I remember the housing woman in the housing offices saying to me and the missus "don't go near the p-word as they are expletive expletive" meaning the travelling folk in their little camp next to offices and I was drinking with 'em the next day in the pub opposite and their head chap blessed my newborn daughter, I said to the travellers what the woman had said in the office and heard she got the tin tack over that. I was a regular in the old social club esp as was one of the few places that sold Woods 100 57% navy rum and I do remember going through a couple of them esp the night me daughter was born.
@sims4sarah3 жыл бұрын
I lived across the street from the travelers. Beyond them letting their horses graze on the grass in front of the flats, they were no different than anybody else living in that area.
@mackan-kf4tg3 жыл бұрын
.....but other times, as in the case of Thamesmead, they’re fully deserved....
@JulieWallis19633 жыл бұрын
Maybe you think it was not “a bad place to live” because it’s the best you’ve known, but that doesn’t mean it was good place. No shops, very little transportation, no underground stations, no jobs and a criminals Paradise. Sounds fucking shite love. That’s coming from someone who left Bromley by Bow in 1969.
@sims4sarah3 жыл бұрын
@@JulieWallis1963 i wasn’t born or raised there but did spend a decade and a half living across from Tavvy Bridge. I’ve lived in multiple places, including my current location of Los Angeles. Believe me, I know Thamesmead has problems but it’s more that it is not as bad as can be made out. Also, there is a ton of public transport compared to many other places. I’d have loved it to have the underground but it has numerous bus routes and Abbey Wood station which has undergone a huge renovation. There is now a huge super store supermarket right next to that station and Thamesmead Town Centre (such that it is) has a bunch of shops. Don’t get me wrong, it’s no Greenwich or even Bexleyheath but it also is not Clockwork Orange.
@Rusty_Gold853 жыл бұрын
As a Telecommunications Technician I hate these places , no maintenance black holes . No one knows where anything is, no plans or maps and no one passes on to the next guy what they found doesnt work . Plus cannot get close enough to unload heavy tools and ladders . Wiring set deep into the wall inaccessible to find or replace
@superadventure62973 жыл бұрын
Even with a condo association though, and all private residents- ALL of those things hold true. I live in a cooperative type building that is from the 60s, and literally everything you mentioned there, every one of those things. The association is run by volunteer residents who run for the positions, and everything is word of mouth- no notes are kept, we have building plans (they're 58 years old) but nobody understands them...
@jimtuite34513 жыл бұрын
As a what? Whatever happened to telephone engineers?
@Rusty_Gold853 жыл бұрын
@@jimtuite3451 No idea . When you find them let me know . My role was Telecommunications Technician . Supplying and repairing . Engineers would be assessing Telecom science standards and codes before fit out or design
@IMBlakeley3 жыл бұрын
@@jimtuite3451 As someone who spent far too much time in the industry, as with washing machine, gas engineer etc we were in the main not engineers, most were not members of the institute or suitably qualified to use a professional title.
@IMBlakeley3 жыл бұрын
The dreaded place when I was first working subs apps was the University for all the reasons you mention. One guy ended up there almost permanently because the longer he spent the more of the esoteric knowledge of the place he had. Poor guy had a complete breakdown in the end.
@RoccondilRinon3 жыл бұрын
“Not just a place to live, but a community” is a far better philosophy than what seems to drive development today: “not just a place to live, but something to make money off of.” Even if it fails, at least the intent is there...
@beeble20033 жыл бұрын
Now, we just plonk down a ton of houses. There's no community but at least there are no concrete walkways and dangerous enclosed spaces.
@AndreiTupolev3 жыл бұрын
That phrase "Built from modern materials" always rings alarm bells.
@pep04093 жыл бұрын
I've lived here since 1980. And what you have said is correct , we were dumped here and forgotten about. Funny to see my childhood home on KZbin.
@Redrally3 жыл бұрын
And then people wonder why huge chunks of London feel no community spirit or investment in their area.
@magentasound_3 жыл бұрын
yep that's how i'd put it, ain't shit here
@jackdiamond9313 жыл бұрын
@@Redrally UK*
@chris2001793 жыл бұрын
Growing up in Erith, it was always reconsidered rough. That's coming from somewhere that is rough!
@jarthurs3 жыл бұрын
Yes, my Parent's first home was on the Larner Road Estate and we'd think twice about going to Thamesmead!
@misterthegeoff97673 жыл бұрын
When I was growing up my Nan lived in Barnehurst and we'd go to Erith for the market. My Nan would blanche at the thought of setting foot in Thamesmead though.
@alzeNL3 жыл бұрын
At the time I lived in New Cross but overslept my stop and ended up in Erith. Not knowing london that well on foot, i decided to follow the route back to New Cross via Thamesmeade - talk about running the gauntlet.. still made it into work ok :D
@rodjones1173 жыл бұрын
Erith isn't twinned with anywhere, but it's in a suicide pact with Dagenham, as they used to say.
@nuneatonolly3 жыл бұрын
@@rodjones117 I believe that wonderful one-liner (one of many) was from the late Linda Smith (who was from Erith).
@tr0nt3 жыл бұрын
Never thought I’d hear Jago talk about Aphex Twin
@barneypaws48833 жыл бұрын
If they're building private apartment blocks, the place will be full of Princesses and Maestros. Not a Marina in site
@visionsofhere37453 жыл бұрын
When did you last see a Marina, Maestro, or Princess?
@prawnk1ng3 жыл бұрын
I just watched A Clockwork Orange last night, the algorithm is working overtime.
@chickadee3173 жыл бұрын
I was writing about A Clockwork Orange last night and here I am.
@davep56983 жыл бұрын
@A. Fox I quite like the colour orange and was lamenting then lack of clock in work today. Eerie
@Ichioku2 жыл бұрын
I have an urge to jump in my car and drive there for a look see, but sadly I sold my car this evening, missing it already! I used to live in West Norwood where Kubrick shot another scene from CO.
@prawnk1ng2 жыл бұрын
@@Ichioku ULEZ bollocks, I gotta get rid of mine too. 🤬
@davidrobert20073 жыл бұрын
Jago: "Even a Marina" Me: "What, a Morris Marina?"
@barneypaws48833 жыл бұрын
They can kip in the back of that!
@misterthegeoff97673 жыл бұрын
I knew some people who were watersports instructors on the 'marina'. For all the jokes it was one of the few things about Thamesmead that worked. Until the council pulled the funding of course.
@tomasjones37553 жыл бұрын
@Ross Bourne A Morris never sounded so good.
@madderz3 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Woolwich and Thamesmead was seen as a bit of a no go zone for outsiders with the 80s being the low point when gangs really took over, trading guns between the 'stages' and the like. The Marina building constantly closing and reopening as ever increasingly rough bars and clubs. In many respects the reputation was probably worse than reality, but as I did when I'd fish on the lake as a young teenager you would keep your head down, keep your wits about you and hope to get out alive. It was rough, it was grim, but I always strangely liked it and the architecture, but like other people's babies, the best part is you can hand them back
@ahmeddiab34993 жыл бұрын
you have a very nice writing style, sir
@garyhatch64323 жыл бұрын
I grow up in Thamesmead, living there from 1971 to 1994 and my Mum still does. I had a great childhood and never felt unsafe. We could walk to the shops and play in the playground at Tavy Bridge without ever having to cross a road. We would never be indoors during school holidays. I think the change happened when they stopped vetting new residents and a lot of original families moved away. The building materials & lack of maintenance where another issue and I was so sad to see the state it became.
@scentedcandles12363 жыл бұрын
Thamesmead - Concrete Town
@snubby46243 жыл бұрын
An excellent comment.
@hydorah3 жыл бұрын
I was just starting to feel a little twinkle of optimism about something. This video has restored the bleak sense of an unending, descending spiral of hopeless and despair that I was missing. Thanks, Jago!
@JagoHazzard3 жыл бұрын
I do my best!
@catfort.dragon3 жыл бұрын
I really like the thumbnail. The font that you used really adds to it.
@xmlthegreat3 жыл бұрын
There is, I find, a sort of beautiful desolation in London, and in British urban planning in general. It's unsettling and curious and haunting, and yet strangely attractive at the same time. It's just utterly morbidly fascinating. Thank you for your work in documenting it, Mr. Hazzard.
@sirrathersplendid48253 жыл бұрын
Beautiful desolation? Surely two self-contradictory terms. Thamesmead is hideous. But then again, so too is much of the recent development in East London centred around the old docklands. I’d call it inhuman, indeed anti-human. Not beautiful in any way, imho of course.
@xmlthegreat3 жыл бұрын
@@sirrathersplendid4825 it's an oxymoron to be sure, but that doesn't make it less real. If you ever visit old ruins, or a desert, or places of urban decay there is a sort of beauty to them. Look at images from Chernobyl, there's a mysterious charm to them. You're more liable to feel it if you're an introverted type of person, where the loneliness of such places has an allure of its own, the sense of stillness. It's entirely subjective and completely individual of course, but it is real.
@sirrathersplendid48253 жыл бұрын
@@xmlthegreat - I agree, desolation can be beautiful. That is how Wordsworth (I think it was him) saw the Lake District, perhaps starting the great British appreciation of the countryside, especially the bleaker parts of it. But the stark desolation of Thamesmead is quite unnatural, as in not part of nature, and to me the antithesis of beauty.
@xmlthegreat3 жыл бұрын
@@sirrathersplendid4825 like I said, it's not about natural beauty but about loneliness in places that should be inherently bustling with life. The english countryside is not desolate, it is natural beauty and is teeming with natural life. It is not silent or lonely. For another example of the beauty of abandoned places, look at the scenes in Blade Runner where the puppeteer is shown living in an abandoned building, or the scenes in Blade Runner 2049 that take place in the desert where Ryan Gosling meets Harrison Ford. That is desolation. Even the bleakest north sea islands feel alive compared to some places. Thamesmead feels like urban decay and there is some kind of attraction that that aesthetic holds. You'll see it in Soviet cityscapes as well, or places in the former Soviet Union. A sort of vast emptiness. That's what I meant here.
@elgee62022 жыл бұрын
What about it is specifically and uniquely British? How does the urban planning of other countries differ?
@JJCGE3 жыл бұрын
Bristol had a similar project in the city centre. Each block was to be linked with walkways, cobwebbed over the cities roads. It was scrapped pretty quickly, but until a few years ago some of these walkways were still up. You can see some clues of their existence if you know what to look for.
@pmichael733 жыл бұрын
A comprehensive and damning indictment of modernism and town planning in less than ten minutes. A bravura performance and without a raised voice. Thank you!
@bryansmith19203 жыл бұрын
Hi pmichael73 My father was a boy soldier during the second attempt to stop the Prussians Landed up in the Royal Engineers That taught him a trade of BUILDING things like many at the end of a conflict were loved ones had Died he wanted to have a better future for his children(not sure if you're a Parent)As a young married man He managed through hard work to become a(Greater London Council)surveyor The whole Country was on the cusp on a future that wasn't death and destruction So NO Michael modernism wasn't the problem People are
@barvdw3 жыл бұрын
I don't entirely agree, +pmichael73. I mean, yes, there certainly is some deserved criticism of the building style, but what doomed it was that they build what they promised. You have to build for living, not just for housing. You can build the most gorgeous suburb, it's going to ruins if people can't live there, and for living, you need more than a house, you need transportation, education, work, leisure... Entire eastern block cities are built with this concept, and for all the hate they get architecturally, they are not as horrible to live in as you might think, even if the flats lack insulation, have crazy things like windows from one apartment into another, etc, because a tram line was build simultaneously with the flats, shops, kindergartens, schools, workshops... were built next to it, or often even within the same block... These are some of the more sought after areas to live in in Berlin, Prague, etc...
@pmichael733 жыл бұрын
@@barvdw @bryan smith British domestic architecture is among the worst in Europe. Planners and builders are as much responsible as the councils and governments who cut the funding. New "starter homes" for upwards of £200k have no distinguishing features, no basements, no usable lofts, no closets, insufficient parking, (often no garages) no place to expand, and not enough space for separate recycling bins in kitchens. (Planners and architects have not learned that apart from bottles and cardboard, people will not sort rubbish outside their homes.) Families have to keep moving and live with perpetual mortgages, and communities fail to grow because of this endless need to move. Actually, ,my original comment was a simple praise of Jago's concise narrative and did not express an endorsement of his ideas.
@barvdw3 жыл бұрын
@@pmichael73 again, that's pretty much the standard in many countries, I bet you'd call the average housing size in say the Netherlands as miniscule too (not just in the Randstad region). And many are absolutely boring architecture. Yet people still want to live there... Because they aren't isolated islands in the middle of nowhere, without local amenities. Bus lines, cycle lanes, sometimes even stations are often opened before the first people move in, schools and businesses are built at the same time, etc.
@joningram3 жыл бұрын
My father was a town planner in this era (not responsible for Thamesmede, thankfully!)… It's interesting contrasting stories like these to what happened last century with the expansion of the tube lines out of London, with new suburbs springing up everywhere. It really shows the importance of getting your transport links sorted (and we can be eternally grateful that the housebuilders of the 1930s didn't have access to cheap concrete).
@archontiverius3 жыл бұрын
As the proverb goes, "Want to be rich? Build a road first."
@rjjcms13 жыл бұрын
Agreeable living in Metroland. Ribbon development.
@highpath47763 жыл бұрын
Indeed, though much of Zone 2/4 expanded with the arrival of the tram system. That Thamesmead missed out was indeed as marshland and flooding and a much wider thames changed how the locality felt.
@ArtReviews3 жыл бұрын
I tip my cap at the The Tripcock Ness Monster gag, comedy gold right there sir.
@zabeerrashid81483 жыл бұрын
Father bought a new house in Thamesmead 1976 near a canal. Went to a new primary school called Jubilee. Missed the open spaces, lake, where people used to fish but not much else, very much a concrete jungle in places. Moved out in 1987, glad to 😕
@Steeeeeeve3 жыл бұрын
Went to Jubilee also! Though mid-90s/2000s. Got a commemorative coin with the school crest on the tails side for the Queen’s golden Jubilee. Moved away the same year.
@timonmob95883 жыл бұрын
I have had two near death experiences. One a documented cliff fall in Dorset. The other a telly whizzing past my head whilst walking under one of Thamesmead's walk ways. Only one still gives me nightmares.
@paulramon33533 жыл бұрын
the mid-syllable ad break suggests youtube has the same contemptuous disregard for its users that those planners had for people of Thamesmead
@skullsaintdead3 жыл бұрын
What an elegant sentence, I commend your efforts.
@Sean-lv6fx3 жыл бұрын
Use Adblock Plus if you're watching on a pc.
@slyowusu993 жыл бұрын
Another gem from Jago. The irony is the private sector has enough capital to do the rest if govt. took its infrastructure responsibilities seriously. Govt needs to get serious, extend tube, rail, tram lines to unfancied areas and get development going
@damiana36823 жыл бұрын
He kept his word!!! I've been waiting for this one for a good time coming, thank you Jago
@Rog54463 жыл бұрын
Are you the culprit who requested this depressing video?
@damiana36823 жыл бұрын
@@Rog5446 perhaps, what if I have?
@calderjonhughes3 жыл бұрын
What a bleak picture you paint of the place I called home from the age of five to my early 20s. I moved there in 72 and experienced none of the misery and depressive environment you describe. Moving on as I grew up into other areas of London - Greenwich, Tooting, Woolwich and also Wimbledon, I was astonished how uncomfortable and poorly designed the housing was. I never felt safe in those other areas but in Thamesmead I did. From my perspective, this video feels like pure snobbery.
@davidjames5793 жыл бұрын
It's amazes me that no one at the time looked at a Concrete design and said who would want to live in the same material they make Multi-Storey Car Parks out of there. 5 mins in it's presence is enough to bring your mood down.
@nutsnproud69323 жыл бұрын
Jago the film "Beautiful Thing" made in 1995 was shot almost entirely on the estate. There was the 180 bus route towards Greenwich and Lewisham.
@sarac.32593 жыл бұрын
Good film. I live in Lewisham and don't mind the odd bus journey and a Thames walk but just does not appeal at all. Let's hope that changes.
@Martindyna3 жыл бұрын
The local bar was a real gay bar, the Gloucester, in Greenwich. Times move on and it's no longer a gay venue. It's now the Greenwich Tavern, 1 King William Walk, SE10.
@nutsnproud69323 жыл бұрын
@@Martindyna The paper shop where Jamie stole the magazine is a two minute walk from that bar. The 180 bus went the wrong way up a one way street when the lead characters got off.
@AndreiTupolev3 жыл бұрын
That was a delightful film
@stream3333 Жыл бұрын
The 180 no longer goes to Lewisham anymore. It stops at North Greenwich.
@stormwell3 жыл бұрын
I had a cousin who lived in Thamesmead up until quite recently (though they might still live there), though they've often said it's a rough area. It does seem like council estates built from the 1960s onwards have ended up being dumping grounds for problem tenants, I grew up on an estate that was built in the 1950s and clearly designed to be more spacious and a huge step-up from the Victorian era terrace houses.
@kez1619 Жыл бұрын
Thamesmead is rough, not super rough like some other places in London, but it’s not the nicest.
@jfwfreo3 жыл бұрын
I would love to know why they never built the shopping centre back in the day, with so many people to be living in the area there would have been a ready-made customer base for at least a basic shopping centre...
@jainee45073 жыл бұрын
The tenants were either low income or completely unemployed. No money to be made around there.
@Peasmouldia3 жыл бұрын
This is an ongoing problem. Developers promise all manner of social assets to get their planning consent. Once they've broken ground they can do anything you can't stop them doing. Local developments in rural areas will promise health and community centers, skate parks and even libraries. If they ever get built, you've been lucky.. Ta.
@hairyairey3 жыл бұрын
@@Peasmouldia There seems to be a raft of recent developments that don't even have footpaths, which is so bizarre. Not even enough space to put your bins out.
@jfwfreo3 жыл бұрын
@@Peasmouldia Maybe its time to change planning laws to penalize (fines and other penalties) developers who promise to build things like retail and services and such and then don't actually build what they promised to build.
@jonlilley92883 жыл бұрын
Developers seem to have carte blanche to do whatever they want as soon as planning permission has been granted. Local Councils are either powerless or clueless when it comes to enforcing the provision of community benefits pledged by the developers.
@IIVQ3 жыл бұрын
A doctor buries his mistakes. An architect [or town planner] can just grow vines on them.
@VCYT3 жыл бұрын
I used to live here, 2017>2020 -- it was like living in a spread-out sleepy village, that was undergoing a serious makeover. Its a nice place for a quite walk around the lakes. I NEVER saw any crime gangs etc, or cops - just workmen knocking old stuff down.
@timblacker373 жыл бұрын
Been a Subscriber since around 600 subs and all I can say is wow. Just wow. The quality, detail, research and information in your videos just keeps getting better. Despite being more of a fan of your Tube/Rail videos, I can safely say that the standard of your property and architecture content is easily better than most people who produce these things for professional purposes, and I say that as someone who works on the property and development industry. Excellent stuff.
@martinbennett87523 жыл бұрын
You just know that any development that wins an international architectural award will be a social disaster.
@gthbtn3 жыл бұрын
Planners where I live built hundreds of rabbit hutches (starting in 2013) and part of the approval included the fact they would build a supermarket. Permission was granted and all but the supermarket block was constructed... Then came the "we want to change our minds and put housing there..." revision - which was approved. So the residents of nearly a thousand flats who bought them thinking the shop was handy now had to go over a mile to the nearest Tesco, which closed down in 2016, because there was another Tesco nearby - only two miles each way for the new development...
@oc2phish073 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jago. Not only interesting but disturbing, sad and thought-provoking at the same time. How do councils keep making these mistakes and how do we, the voters, keep allowing it? This is bad in the same way that Stonebridge Park and Chalkhill Estates in North London were bad, and also built in the 1960s.
@duvetdancer3 жыл бұрын
Dont forget Graham Park and Dollis Valley. Although to be fair The Valley has been modernised.
@beeble20033 жыл бұрын
How would voters stop it? It takes ten years to discover the mistake. Then what? You vote them out? Great, now you have a council full of people who've never designed a housing estate before, and they make the same mistakes next time.
@GWJUK3 жыл бұрын
@@nemo6686 you can only vote for who is on the card and if they are all egotists then what?
@beeble20033 жыл бұрын
@@nemo6686 What does egotism have to do with it? Why is it more important than party platform?
@iankemp11313 жыл бұрын
Remember it's not the elected councillors who specify and design the estates, it's the permanent council officers and planners/developers. And councillors actually have very little chance to reject a plan when the final version is presented to them for approval - it tends to be too late by then.
@davidpanton31923 жыл бұрын
'Planned community'? Wouldn't that be like 'organised spontaneity'?
@beeble20033 жыл бұрын
No, because "community" is just a buzzword for "place where people live."
@natashacox72772 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Thamesmead in the 80's and 90's and my parents still live there along with many of the same neighbours. Yes it is more known for it's concrete blocks but there are some amazing houses along crossways (right at the boiler house) which no-one ever talks about. I loved living there and had a great childhood. It's always had a bad reputation but it doesn't live up to it.
@mathewbayley3 жыл бұрын
You write and present these videos so well. It’s a pleasure to watch
@chutzlivogel463 жыл бұрын
I once stayed at my cousin's place for a week in Thames mead. His place was very small, but the one thing I really didn't like was there was a terrible smell in the area. I was told it came from the sewage system. I'm not sure if being near, or built on The Marsh had something to do with it. The air almost felt unbreathable and was very unpleasant.
@davidwalsh47883 жыл бұрын
Only in Thamsmead could the first pub to be built get called 'The Barge Pole"......
@mrjoneseastend3 жыл бұрын
It's the only pub I'm come across where the windows and doors were fitted with security grills. The only other place I seen this is Belfast back in the day.
@samskidoodle47683 жыл бұрын
In fairness, ‘Beautiful Thing’ did manage to imbue the location with some romance! The hot summer of 1995 was almost certainly a factor. I see the residents have adopted an Alexandra & Ainsworth feel with the now ubiquitous reclaimed flower troughs.
@UrvonDiviner3 жыл бұрын
Some romance indeed, but even there the neglect was quite noticeable. The actors got to 'swim' in an E. coli infested South Mere for example... (in all fairness, they were only told afterwards I believe, so it can't have been all that bad then, right?)
@samskidoodle47683 жыл бұрын
@@UrvonDiviner Yes, little wonder Sandra was so keen to take on the tenancy of the pub in Rotherhithe!
@technophobetortoise96463 жыл бұрын
Misfits was also filmed here, I think it really gave the show a bleak, unnerving feel, I went through there the other day to get to a friends and realised they may have made the setting look more upbeat and vibrant in the show
@brianscales99123 жыл бұрын
We moved into Thamesmead about fourteen years ago. Although it had a reputation as a rough place, we have NEVER seen any problems! We are in the Limestone Walk area (so walking distance to Abbey Wood Station). The Jubilee Line or DLR WOULD have been of massive benefit to Thamesmead. Crossrail will fill the that gap WHEN it opens. Thamesmead sadly didn't get the 50th celebrations we should have had last year for obvious reasons. On the whole not a bad place to live!
@highpath47763 жыл бұрын
If you look at what is happening over a Kidbrooke and other ex-council and new build (Colindale/Hendon) I think you can see the difference / no real difference.
@UrvonDiviner3 жыл бұрын
The video seems to have been centering mostly around Southmere Lake (Tavy Bridge, Binsey Walk, Coralline Walk and their immediate surroundings), I don't think that that's fully representative of the rest of Thamesmead. Yet, in all fairness, it is exactly what people see in their minds when they think about Thamesmead.
@sarac.32593 жыл бұрын
That's really good to hear.
@stephenknowles85803 жыл бұрын
Like all places, you get your good and bad areas. I have worked on the thamesmead estate for the last three decades and it’s not the easiest on the eye . I used to pop in the dashwood club in the estate and the locals used to be some of the nicest people you could meet.
@nikkion21403 жыл бұрын
Would you recommend people to move to Thamesmead now? It is not cheap anyway.
@MrGreatplum3 жыл бұрын
Splendid stuff, Jago. As a town planner, I’d like to apologise for the past and I only wish that the planning system wasn’t so geared up to the developer so that all the ‘nice’ things - schools, doctor surgeries, parks, shops etc are always shaved off developments!
@cd0u50c92 жыл бұрын
But it is - corrupt is the word. Thanks for the apology, not really accepted, because look where it landed us.
@Deebz2702 жыл бұрын
I visted Thames Mead once, on a birthday party of a friend of my first girlfriend (who lived in Molsey down the road). It was pretty plush back then (1969). They lived in one of those off-the-street level flats, at the time brand-new and inside it was (at least to me back then) palatial and very sixties modern. We watched Dr Who and the Seadevils... LOL.
@damonchampion8233 жыл бұрын
Loved the passionate delivery. Very informative
@GeorgeChoy3 жыл бұрын
the old 70s footage reminds me of "confessions of a ...." films with Robin Askwith.
@steve05923 жыл бұрын
Keep typing George, keep digging. :-)
@GeorgeChoy3 жыл бұрын
@@steve0592 those were great comedies and gave opportunities to many aspiring actresses who later found film or TV success.
@Mevi3 жыл бұрын
When I was a kid, my brother lived in the flats. Everywhere stunk of the processed human turds at the sewage plant. Remember it being a kinda nice day out with my parents and I once won a toy dog at a pub raffle. I even liked the sci-fi elevated walkways.
@chutzlivogel463 жыл бұрын
I agree about the smell, it was terrible.
@annother33503 жыл бұрын
Me and my son went to take pictures, there just before they knocked the best part down by the lake. We found one particular stretch of pathway with probably the most amount of dog poo ever recorded...
@alan-sk7ky3 жыл бұрын
nah near me is an unnamed alley, i say unnamed but locally and for as long as i'vee been old enough to be aware of it it's been reffered to as 'Dog' and you wouldnt want to try your luck after dark unless pissed and of diminished judgement 💩
@annother33503 жыл бұрын
@@alan-sk7ky The place in Thamesmead had signs throughout the pathway warning of fines for not cleaning up after your dog and I swear the Dogs had arranged a dirty protest...
@Aengus423 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy these looks at the interface of society & architecture. I grew up in the seventies on what used to be a lovely, peaceful council housing estate in Torbay. It was full of people thankful for their cheap to rent, 1950's council houses. The weekends were shrill to the sound of Flymos as front gardens & hedges were tended. The council who'd built them looked after them along with the residents. All the way up to Right to Buy. It was the big four & five bed traditional houses with huge gardens front and back that went first. These were modernised inside and out until someone had the bright idea of seeking planning permission to build another house in the back garden. Suddenly those huge nature reserve style back gardens of my youth disappeared as housing density doubled. Owners who'd made a packet moved away with what was, in effect, the council's wealth to the big private estates of mock Tudor opulence. I went back a few years ago & something was very different from the 70's. Along with the doubling of housing density by building in the gardens were thousands of cars! What I remember as wide open roads were now torture to drive or walk down because of cars parking not only on the street but on that blight of the front garden culture of well clipped hedges, formal patch of lawn and flower borders... The Car Port! Acres of concrete, gravel & faded, moss ridden, blue corrugated plastic. My old road was unrecognisable. Closed in, enough space (just) to get one car down it. My Dad's front garden was now a car park. I got lost walking from my old house to the estate parade of shops due to footpaths being built over, wild patches left by the council because they were too steep was now huge blocks of flats. Places to dump all the people that should've moved in to the council houses as tennents died or moved away but now were private homes for people "on the housing ladder". The place has been ruined. The "them & us" of council & private residents exacerbated by the capital of what the council had built getting sequestered in to private bank accounts & private home ownership and the lack of funding for our councils. Councils are the true interface of government and the population. The council housing estate I grew up on from 1970 to 1980 worked. It was an almost idyllic place live. That sounds like hyperbole when you look at the mess the tories have made with our council estates. Right to buy and defunding of councils have caused a lot of pain & harm to ordinary working families & especially the disabled & retirees. A British council house used to be a comfy, well maintained home for life with zero stigma! It's the tories wrecking ball fueled by greed & their divide & rule philosophy that ruined this once important asset.
@thequeenofspades3 жыл бұрын
I've never been to Thamesmede but I think I've had a nightmare set there.
@rjjcms13 жыл бұрын
A place I'd heard about from time to time since the 90s but never been to.
@sirrathersplendid48253 жыл бұрын
You’ve not missed anything. Hideous place fit only for aliens from another planet.
@UrvonDiviner3 жыл бұрын
I've visited a few times in the nineties and noughties. A local resident we knew always warned us to never visit alone though. And to stay on the upper level. We were also warned not to interact with the locals as not all of them would be equally accepting of outsiders walking around on the estate. To be fair I never noticed anything untoward, although the lower level did give me the creeps.
@sirrathersplendid48253 жыл бұрын
@@UrvonDiviner - Used to work there in the 90s. Right in the heart of it. Never felt especially at risk there, perhaps because I was there in the daytime and the inmates only started to get out of bed just as I was heading home.
@stephenknowles85803 жыл бұрын
There was a concrete walkway/bridge that used to go from the south of the estate to the north. I used to think that you would have to be very brave to walk along that late at night.
@evnejg943 жыл бұрын
"adopting the yea you know whatever approach to new housing that preferred cars to pedestrians" you just described 98% of American architecture and city planning
@mattcrooke83213 жыл бұрын
Places like this fascinate me. Thank you for featuring it 😊
@Meagain9213 жыл бұрын
Came across your channel recently and enjoy it very much indeed. Thank you.
@jonstout92363 жыл бұрын
I was unlucky enough to have a (divorced) Dad who I would visit at weekends there - it was truly diabolical :(
@ROCKINGMAN3 жыл бұрын
I've a lot of memories of Thamesmead stage 1, 2 and 3. I moved to Abbey Wood in 1970. Used to play on the undevoloped land toward the river. Joined the Newacres library in '73. It was nice then and felt futuristic. It became run down for some of the reasons you gave. Peter Sellers also made a film here, The Optimist of Nine Elms in '73. I believe much of it has been demolished for a new housing project, may be learning from previous experiences. Anywhere can be nice...it's people that make it nasty.
@mintybadlamb3 жыл бұрын
Thank you once again, Jago. Always informative and humorous.
@robtyman42813 жыл бұрын
Another very well researched video. Fascinating as always.
@EtwasMartin3 жыл бұрын
It looks like the main issue here was, what had been the issue with so many of these projects. On paper, it all looked great and tbh, I hardly see anything wrong with the initial plan. But you have to launch the project completly. They started to move people into finished parts. Problems came up because there was still a lot of infrastructure missing. And we all know: problems mean that fundings get cut. So huge parts of what was planned never got built because there were problems with the parts that already existed.
@beeble20033 жыл бұрын
The concrete walkways are a huge problem with the initial plan. Any time you force people into confined spaces with no sight-lines and no escapes, you've just built a mugger's paradise.
@pauliepaul36972 жыл бұрын
Mr hindsight
@PianoKwanMan3 жыл бұрын
Can you do a video of Kidbrooke? From Brutalist Achitecture to modern glass faced buildings and green parks.
@cramarshe2 жыл бұрын
I visited southmere lake 2 weeks ago for the fields of everywhen project to collect images and get a feel for the area so I could do an embroidery of a Lady's story about her experiences there. I live in west london and have never been to thamesmead before and it was a weird feeling. I felt really emotional about it eventhough I never even heard of it. It felt so peaceful and solemn. I know it's a bit weird but I really felt something different here and it made me think about life differently as well. I spoke to a taxi driver on the way there and he told me a bit about the area which was nice as well. I'm not even 20 yet so I don't really know much but I really looked at it for what it was in that moment and admired it. How the towers melted into the reflection of the lake and the whole vibe was just so sad but peaceful, like someone who had passed away long ago and now all you have is the pictures of them smiling and you see what is in front of you and can't think about what could have been, just what's in front of you.
@someonebald20223 жыл бұрын
The bit in "A Clockwork Orange" where Malcom is in hospital was filmed in Harlow (Princess Alexandra Hospital, to be precise). Kubrick's location planner knew a dump when he saw one!
@johnsamu3 жыл бұрын
It's a shame and a pity that well intended projects get wasted so often (I can mention similar projects here in the Netherlands). Interesting to hear about the "Clockwork Orange" bit. Designers/planners need to be able to take a step back and ask themselves "What problems did I forget and what can go wrong?“ Instead it's often a matter of ego, overconfidence and arrogance that prevents designers/planners from doubts about their own proposals.
@typhoidtyphoon2 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure I agree with that. The buildings without much in the way of decorations sure look bleak, but if you look carefully you can see how spots were reserved for greenery and humanity. It's the dropping in of problem tenants from elsewhere that's a really large part of the problem - along with the lack of finishing some important details such as transport and shopping that _were in the plans_. Although I'll grant you, those stairwells do look cozy and closed off - no wonder people with no other options chose to lie there.
@pauliepaul36972 жыл бұрын
Clockwork orange was just a film it's hyperthetical to thamesmead i live here and I've never witnessed idiot's wearing bowler hats 👒
@LastofAvari3 жыл бұрын
8:10 "The problem with housing experiments is that by the time you know they failed it's to late." Words of truth, indeed!
@Moth113 жыл бұрын
Hey jago thanks for the vid. Love the archival footage and the clips from the films and music videos.
@schore693 жыл бұрын
07:04 kill it, kill it with fire! this mob of little 'girls' just gives me the chills every single time. i am just glad that they do not roam the streets for real.
@arthurdurbin3703 жыл бұрын
ah yes because the best way to fix the issues of the ugly concrete hell hole tower is to flip in on its side and repeat exactly the same things you did vertically but this time horizontally. most advanced. at least they figured out the most important problem of the 21st century. walking up lots of stairs sucks.
@steveh42903 жыл бұрын
Jago - amazing video. Brutalist architecture is one of my interests & this estate in particular. Considering I'm a fan of Aphex Twin, I never knew "Come to Daddy" was filmed there.
@roshy25913 жыл бұрын
I've just found your channel and I am really enjoying your content. Thank you!
@smith07790610 ай бұрын
My dad lived in a church in Thamesmead & it stuck with me for the past 30 years A real concrete jungle which I will never forget. RIP dad
@roderickmain96973 жыл бұрын
I went to university in Colchester. Also built in the 60s and the result is not dissimilar. The problem, I think, is that when you impose a new town, it never really works because its forced. There will be shops here (or not), there will be a pub there etc and so on and so forth. Towns dont evolve like that. Towns form on the top of hill for defence or by a shallow part of a river where people will cross or a narrow part where you can build a bridge. Makes sense to set up shop there because you will have lots of customers. . They evolve from necessity. Fundamentally, a new town is anti-Darwinian.
@nuneatonolly3 жыл бұрын
That's all well and good, but when you have a major housing crisis (as was the case for two or three decades after the Second World War), homes have to be built. In such circumstances, you can't really wait for natural evolution - hence the new towns, expanded towns and new estates that were developed in large numbers between the late 1940s and the 1970s. Many are much derided now, but not all were failures by any means. New satellite estates undoubtedly fared worse than the new towns, which at least benefited from better facilities (such as proper town and neighbourhood centres) and, for a while at least, a real employment base that enabled people to both live and work within the new towns. The problem with Thamesmead is that it wasn't developed in the same way as the government-designated new towns were, and was essentially a housing estate that offered precious little else than housing, with atrocious transport links to the rest of London to boot. When you add in a lack of maintenance to that mix, it's hardly surprising it declined so quickly.
@roderickmain96973 жыл бұрын
@@nuneatonolly Satellite estates: Yes, I was brought up on two such in Oxfordshire. But that was the evolution of the town. One was built, initially exclusively, for a new industry that was formed on the edge of the town. But that was evolution. The town centre shops expanded. The town centre evolved as more people used it.. Thats really what I'm getting at. Whereas, there are all sorts of reasons why Milton Keynes, Crawley, Glenrothes to name a few were "difficult" towns but chief among the reasons for that is that they were imposed rather than evolving from what was there already.
@nuneatonolly3 жыл бұрын
@@roderickmain9697 Thanks for your response! Without meaning to cherrypick, one of the examples you cite is poorly chosen: Milton Keynes. It's actually a pretty successful town! Yes, it has been the butt of no end of jokes (almost without exception made by outsiders), but it's a town that is still growing today, and one whose residents are generally very happy to live there. It looks a bit weird and might feel soulless to some, but it was in reality quite well designed. The key criticism I would make is that its design is far too car-oriented (and not conducive to efficient public transport), but it does have an excellent system for getting about by bike or on foot (the Redways), and decent neighbourhood facilities mean that access to Central Milton Keynes is not perhaps as essential as in other towns anyway. A number of other new towns, while maybe not the prettiest places, have also proven fairly successful (e.g. Basildon, Bracknell, Redditch, Telford, Crawley), despite being "imposed" by the government, so I'm not sure your evolution argument holds. (Conversely, others have clearly not been a success, but these are often cases where the town in question was reliant on one or two major industries or companies that subseqently went to the wall.) And, as I've commented elsewhere here, planned cities like Brasília and Washington, DC, are hardly considered failures - but then, as national capitals, they were assured the funding and facilities necessary for any settlement to thrive.
@roderickmain96973 жыл бұрын
@@nuneatonolly Milton Keynes, bless it, (30 years ago I had g/f who lived there) was used a an example of why places like that did not work as well as other towns. It was genuine study. Their conclusion was (and it wanst exclusive to Milton Keynes) that people moved there without family. If/when there were issues, with relationships, work , whatever, there was no one to go to, no family, no social support network of friends (as no one knew anyone else) so it meant the suicide rate was about 4 times higher than elsewhere in the country. These days, I would surmise that those sorts of things have slowly disappeared and its now evolving like a "normal town". Now if I had my academic time again this might be a topic I could spend lots of time with. In the case of Thamesmead, it was never properly completed so it was even further handicapped.
@nuneatonolly3 жыл бұрын
@@roderickmain9697 Yes, absolutely! This point is key, I think: in MK, the planners' vision was largely able to be realised (thanks no doubt to the resources that come with a new town development corporation), whereas so much of what was planned for Thamesmead never happened.
@spalftac3 жыл бұрын
On a positive note it looks like you can walk through the area blatantly displaying your phone/camera without getting mugged.
@Leonard_Smith3 жыл бұрын
You can't see the private security guards he employed behind the camera though can you?
@MattTCfarm3 жыл бұрын
"The problem with housing experiments is that by the time you know they have failed, it is too late." Yes, and/but houses needs to be as alive as the people living in them because failure and problems will always occur. We are living in one big housing estate called Earth. We need to actively maintain and protect it. Likewise, any new estates need to empower the residents to benefit from their own semi-tangible investment in the estate. All this requires a level of governance we do not truly have Earth. Hence, the success of any estate is dependent upon being in a bubble that would isolate it from reality. That is to say, reality will always wreck a perfect plan.
@dukeofaaghisle73243 жыл бұрын
It’s a rare occasion that a JH video that leaves me feeling somewhat depressed (at the tragic inevitability of it all). Thank you for a tiny glimmer of hope near the end!
@alzeNL3 жыл бұрын
Cor, can almost smell the burnt cabbage, smell of bleach and urine just by watching.. to think back in the early 2000's we almost moved to Thamesmeade, was nice and safe in New Cross :)
@MrAdrien19993 жыл бұрын
I love going to Thamesmead always feels like an important event. Sad seeing so much of it being torn down, it's a bit of a strange lil utopian project that I admire.
@pauliepaul36972 жыл бұрын
Sadly old tavy Bridge as gone the architecture went well being next to the flyover, what are they going to build cottages next to the flyover,them old buildings should have been heritage buildings all they needed was a jet wash and refurbishment
@nixtrain3 жыл бұрын
When I left school in 1967 I worked for GLC at County Hall in the Highways Dept. where the Thamesmead Spine Road was in the planning stages. I did not know about the proposed town and this video has filled in a lot of information for me. Many thanks.
@amandajane82273 жыл бұрын
Ahh the spine road - a great place for speeding back in the day.
@al3k3 жыл бұрын
I lived in a riverside apartment in the new Barratt homes opposite that place 20 years ago... was really hoping to see a bit of that from across where you were filming as it was just over the roundabout. That estate was quite something to drive past to my apartment every day. I remember being told that our houses were basically built on sewage... Lovely. But the view was nice. And that estate nearby was really something to behold. Shame it's all disappearing. Thanks for the vid.
@alanmoss36033 жыл бұрын
Once in my late teens I went to a pub called The Bargepole in Thamesmead! It was, without doubt, the scariest pub I have ever been to! I was pretty sure you could order heroin with your larger at the bar!
@apuldram3 жыл бұрын
Is that fried Heron?
@dannystirrups76913 жыл бұрын
The traveller camp over the road from there used to worry people with that pub. Horse on a rope anyone?😁
@alanmoss36033 жыл бұрын
@@dannystirrups7691 True! I have driven past occasionally and seen traveller horses grazing on the grass under the flats by that pub! I'm sure Betjeman could write a poem about it.
@stephenknowles85803 жыл бұрын
A couple of friends of mine were salesmen and decided to canvass the barge pole. They got three steps in and because they were wearing suit and tie the locals thought they were c.i.d. They were politely told where to go, returning to their car to find that had been broken into already.
@alanmoss36033 жыл бұрын
@@stephenknowles8580 Thamesmead! The only place on earth that makes Croydon look classy!
@Peasmouldia3 жыл бұрын
Have a wander round some of the housing developments that have gone up on green field sites in rural areas. "Be seeing you"..... Thanks JH.
@menshevik10123 жыл бұрын
Really enjoy these little sojourns into architecture Jago.
@etbadaboum3 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see more of this kind of video!
@markellis64133 жыл бұрын
Very good video. A stark warning from history about those who promise the Earth and deliver, well, Thamesmead...
@alejandrayalanbowman3673 жыл бұрын
did you mean "promise Erith ..."?
@kosikond3 жыл бұрын
I got to know Thamesmead thanks to Misfits (E4)
@prawnk1ng3 жыл бұрын
I got to know it from work. 😔
@Blomhaus3 жыл бұрын
Love the social architecture videos the mostest, thanks for this
@mitchblank3 жыл бұрын
The #1 lesson should be "sort out the transit FIRST". If the scheme had included a couple tube stops (or similar-frequency rail) from the start I bet 80% of the other problems would have sorted themselves out. There are similar bits of housing stock that have done OK in zone 2/3 areas because the people who work there have quick access to a whole London-full of jobs/education/etc. Lacking that, Thamesmead sadly fell into a vicious cycle and became an out-of-the-way place few cared much about.
@highpath47763 жыл бұрын
Old Oak common area development is a big change, but few substantial family properties where you can work and live effectively and affordably
@sarac.32593 жыл бұрын
Yes - totally agree. Have a cab-driver friend who went there once, I think - never again.
@iankemp11313 жыл бұрын
Sad after it started with such good intentions. Is there something about human nature that reacts against ugly buildings? In the 1980s I stayed in Runcorn New Town on a work secondment. The flats had orange and purple ribbed plastic cladding over concrete, and porthole-shaped windows. Demand was low, so the YMCA had taken several over and I was able to stay in one as a flatshare at rock bottom prices. They were actually comfortable and pleasant inside, but just looked hideous outside and the area felt dubious. I wondered each morning if I would find my car still there or propped up on bricks, though it was an old Austin Maxi and I hadn't realised at that stage that nobody would want to nick it. It too was surprisingly comfortable, spacious and practical, but burnt almost as much oil as petrol.