that Whitestorm problem I keep bringing up

[@bug4bee]

I wish the “don’t ask don’t tell” sort of unspoken rule amongst queens had stuck around. It felt…. real. Especially with how common forbidden relationships are. They should just be allowed to be mysteries sometimes. Why not?

[@kennedyhuff]

I agree! I wouldn't be surprised if forbidden romances were more common, but everyone had more sense to...just not ask who the father was unless the queen offered the information.

[@liz6595]

yeah, its cool, its cat-like, and mystery isnt the end of the world its interesting

[@IJustAnimateThatsTheJist]

Honestly the unspoken rule was pretty cool for story-telling purposes. Idk why the authors threw it out, especially considering that they were writing stories before the 1st arc had taken place where it was still supposedly in effect. Mapleshade's Vengeance was kind of weird for that reason; while she mentioned that she was raising the kits alone and didn't want to disclose who the father was, everyone obsessed about it until the truth finally came out and they were all banished. I don't really read the books anymore, but weren't the clans supposed to be more strict with the warrior code and didn't the queen's rule exist at the time? The power of retcons is truly a powerful thing I suppose.

[@WarmBreadBearBuddy]

Exactly! If a she-cat didn’t want to say who the father was, than they shouldn’t have too. But now it’s “oh cool, your having kits, you better tell me who now or you’ll be banished forever” and I feel like they just said that so Blueoak wasn’t discovered sooner

[@xRaiofSunshine]

Plus you can avoid the whole genetic diversity problem because you can literally have a loner come by for a fling or something :0

[@TipOfTheSauce]

Head Cannon: Clan cats can reproduce asexually, but they stopped because they didn’t want to confuse Fireheart.

[@5t3v3thevehicon9]

headcanon accepted

[@meloncaaat2050]

YEs

[@herlocksholmes-uv5qw]

Queens: oh shit time for my mitosis

[@melodysmusicaladventures596]

*Yes*

[@STAPLEDTONGUE]

they said femometer

[@kennedyhuff]

I like the idea that Fern and Ash's father isn't ThunderClan, not even for a drama point, but just because it makes more sense than Whitestorm.

[@pockywocky7737]

Yo I used to sware up,down,left,right and inside out their father was a kittypet. Thats why brindleface was so welcoming to fireheart and cloudkit.

[@bkbigdubz]

A rouge if you will

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

JAKE

[@otterbanana1556]

Maybe it was rain-fur from fire-stars quest he was a gray with dark gray flecks like ash and fern

[@uncleravenpawok9435]

@@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251 jake makes it so squilf and ash cousins

[@felinenostalgic5306]

I definitely like the idea that Brindleface's kits were fathered by a kittypet. It lines up with the fact that she was so gentle with him and patient with him... a majority of the rest of the clan was mad that cloudkit was a kittypet, but she seemed unbothered.

[@spoongoon7742]

Yeah, maybe Brindleface just pulled a Bluestar and said that Whitestorm was the father to cover up the kittypet thing

[@annariley4455]

@@spoongoon7742 that probably did happen, and it also covers up the issue of why the kits look almost nothing like any other single male cat in the clan. Besides whitestorm, (who I could totally see being the type of tom to help Brindleface out by letting her tell the clan that they are his kits even if they aren’t, like Thrushpelt but less involved) not to mention, in Bluestar’s Prophecy, it says that Brindleface and Whitestorm grew up together, (along with Tigerclaw and Frostfur) there isn’t any other single tom that would make sense to be their father due to their coloring

[@strawberryshortpup3655]

@@lumeanoastra1252 Evil is not genetic

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

@@lumeanoastra1252 i mean to be fair ashfur having to bury his mothers corpse and then being encouraged to take revenge of her death PROBABLY messed him up

[@Starandorion]

@@lumeanoastra1252 its not

[@pinkbunnygirl43]

Maybe Whitestorm is the new Jake. He’s everyone’s father! :)

[@artykeldeo]

whitestorm x jake when lol

[@firecatinblack]

@@artykeldeo now

[@____eve]

@@firecatinblack understandable, have a great day also im gonna enjoy the no “omg hi!” replies at the moment

[@artykeldeo]

@@firecatinblack brb making ship art

[@Feezee223]

Lol

[@chickenmuppets6746]

I think Darkstripe being the father works better in terms of Ashfur, Ashfur being evil. Not in terms of “oh, evil is genetic” because Darkstripe wasn’t pure evil, just kind of stupid and biased. He follows the lead of who he believes in, and who he believes in is evil. But the idea that Darkstripe and Brindleface breaking up and Darkstripe abandoning his children after the adoption of Cloudkit could give Ashfur the possessiveness and fear of abandonment he’d need in order to justify things like trying to hurt Lionpaw in training. He thinks he was abandoned, again, and he begins to act irrationally and violently in anger to this perceived abandonment, and he snaps and attempts to kill Squirrelflight’s children, his rationalized reason for Squirrelflight “abandoning” him. TLDR; if darkstripe left his kids, ashfur could have severe abandonment issues and cling onto every relationship. he’s desperate. something, an event, makes him snap and he tries to destroy what he thinks is the source of squirrelflight “abandoning” him: the three. ashfur’s fire scene could have been so much better and made so much more sense

[@avacadotherainwing8457]

If the darkxBrindle thing took place, wouldn't they have broken up when the kits were less then a moon old tho? I kinda remember Brindle's kits being kinda young when everything went down

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

Omg yeah and if darkstripe left his kits bc Brindleface adopted Cloudkit it would make sense why Ashfur doesn't like kittypets!

[@candlesticks8]

I honestly believe that Darkstripe was more of “sperm donor” if you know what I mean, maybe ashfur was like that because he was simply missing a father figure.

[@rainbow--skies]

@@avacadotherainwing8457 They would’ve, but given that some people with infants do that irl and these are cats anyway, that’s just somewhat upsetting but not impossible

[@HONEYDROPGALAXY]

WAIT THATS SO GOOD THO

[@TennelleFlowers]

I wish the author’s/working partners took a much more honest approach when answering fan questions that could potentially retcon in something. Just a simple “I don’t know, it didn’t matter so we didn’t write it” would be so less damaging to the already twisted up lore and family trees. Plus, I think there’s this really prevalent idea that storytellers NEED to have an answer for everything concerning their world, and that’s just not true or feasible. What is canon is that Whitestorm is a good boy, 10/10 deputy, what a great guy. I’d hate to see him get retroactivity Yellowfang’d. -_-

[@Feezee223]

I agree.

[@fortumon2570]

Yea…

[@billcipher8645]

Exactly! I have a bad habit of overanalising everything so I can answer every question in existence but honestly, someone would probably ask me one I never considered and making stuff up on a go is probably worse than saying "idk"

[@streampike7015]

Whitestorms great!

[@jittercritter]

Agreed! I want to be an author sometime in the future, and I’ll have to remember the Warriors team and JK Rowling whenever I’m asked a question that I don’t have an answer to. Honestly the responses, “What do you think?” And “I don’t know” Solve so many problems and they’re probably going to be what I’ll use if I do manage to make something people are willing to ask questions about.

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

Every father in Warriors is just "my dad left to get milk" but worse.

[@lord__pasta]

"My dad left to get milk, but he still lives two rooms down in the same house and work the same job as me, and eventually I'll have to live in the same room as him, but he will refuse to acknowledge my existence, or at least my existence of being his kid. But even now, while I live literally two rooms down, he will refuse to visit me or my mom, and will refuse to acknowledge any of our existences."

[@5t3v3thevehicon9]

@@lord__pasta yea thats worse

[@nicksrotting]

“My dad left to get milk unless, of course, I am the main character or anyone somewhat important. Then it’s relevant” 💀💀💀

[@SodaFrizz666]

They are all everybody and nobodys dad!

[@quicksilveryt4000]

666'th like >:D

[@aviansoul__art8286]

In my mind Brindleface just really wanted kits and asked some random tom who doesn’t care about kits to father them

[@bkbigdubz]

Same and for me that Tom would be dark stripe

[@updog9567]

Yep

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

Yeah, I supsect Runningwind cause he doesn't work well with apprentices (young cats)

[@fernleafking9224]

In my mind, white storm and brindle face didn’t work out as kits and broke up, then white storm moved on to willow pelt. It sounds pretty reasonable to me. :3

[@Cylidae]

YAY, Moonkitti’s gonna talk at me.

[@fawnasaur]

HFJDJFJF

[@jetski8304]

@@fawnasaur i agree

[@variables494]

I love it when she does that

[@supersketchy3824]

YES, talk at me more

[@Autumn-Leafeon]

Hearing Moonkitti explain things so clearly is so satisfying. These types of videos are probably my favorites, including the ones made for fun instead of addressing a problem tbh

[@copperpatina-z]

Not to mention that Brindle and White were foster siblings. We have another foster sibling couple with Snowbush and Lilyheart too, and not many fans seem to have a problem with foster siblings getting together but I'd like to disagree bc it's as if implying that adoptive family is not considered "real" family.

[@almaszericebean1401]

Also snowbush and Lilyheart are cousins via Brightheart and Brackenfur being siblings

[@meulware]

@@almaszericebean1401 i wish the writers actually made decisions that made sense and kept up with what the hell is happening lol incest with these cats is still weird because they have human thinking and mindsets

[@almaszericebean1401]

@@meulware well tbh at this point everyone in thunderclan is related

[@justheretovibe9849]

Reminds me of the people that ship Thor and Loki romantically. Why do some people have to be like that 🙃

[@almaszericebean1401]

@@justheretovibe9849 people ship Thor and Loki?!?!?

[@thecupidintraining]

darkstripe being ashfur and fernclouds dad is so funny to me i’m calling it the darkdad au and the entire thing is just “do u wanna interact with ur children?” “nah”

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

darkstripe: if i have children no i dont

[@dangdao8068]

@@iwakeupandboomimarat “yea the part where you feed sorrelkit a red candy”

[@Misscouchpotato-]

He'd poison them-

[@BumbleTus]

I want more "So who is the father of your kits?" "you think I know???"

[@itzflame5523]

I mean why wouldn’t they know?

[@pruneprince1976]

@@itzflame5523 slept around lol

[@iridiumSerpent]

@@pruneprince1976 i mean real cat litters can have multiple fathers so

[@featherlightfox1292]

@@iridiumSerpent exactly, why didn’t they just play into that real world cat behaviour? It makes things a lot easier to play with when it comes to how closely related the clan is getting and has already been. Honestly, breeding between the clans should be encouraged for the sake of diversity, so long as actual relationships aren’t a part of it for the sake of clan loyalty and such. Half-clan kittens should be welcomed.

[@BellaExclamationMark]

The erins should have mystery kit fathers more often, no one needs to know

[@featherlightfox1292]

Its probably to try and please the people who build the family trees and complain when there are gaps. I know my brain gets fussy when I see missing information 😂

[@dilbertbilbertcrabbert1868]

I really like that Brindleface’s design here. Cool ginger and grey cat!

[@sagefeather3405]

@@Amanecer458 It's called a dilute tortoiseshell, and yes, I agree. I make all of my Warriors designs follow cat genetics, and I make Sandstorm a light amber tortoiseshell so that I can at least make Leafpool a cinnamon torbie, but that's also a good way of justifying it.

[@vega8063]

Don't get the whole "Whitestorm being everyone's father" situation either. And why did they give Runningwind two kits that died instead of Brindleface's? Neither he nor his sister Mousefur had (surviving) kits, if they added their bloodline there could've been at least a little more genetic variety (Halftail and One-Eye didn't have anymore kits as well as far as I know, so their direct bloodline is completely dead now). Oh well

[@calico8525]

as another comment mentioned, the concept of “dont ask dont tell” for queens’ mates should have stayed around. it would make sense for brindleface’s kits to have been fathered by a complete outsider rather then a clanmate, but even so i like to believe it was runningwind whom fathered them (biased because runningwind is my favorite background character, though lmao)

[@lapinbleur11]

Graystripe’s Vow also totally rewrote Ashfur’s character. He was presented as constantly angry and argumentative like he was innately a villain. It completely deviated from the more interesting concept that his choices made him into a villain vs. he was born one. I wish the books would stop rewriting existing characters and focus on new engaging content…

[@TrinketTheDragonsHoarde]

I too dislike that the books make characters born evil. Like Brokenkit and Tigerkit. StarClan's warning of them was horrible... like what about nurture? No one should be /born/ evil. It doesn't make any sense. Unless they're somehow reincarnations of evil but really those who're reincarnated should NOT remember things typically. For me reincarnation should allow for another chance at life and to potentially find redemption for things in a past life. Like the slate is wiped clean, memories are wiped clean through a purification ritual of some sort... instead of total obliteration of the soul/spirit because really energy never disappears it just transforms.... that's my belief system anyway and even if it wasn't it'd be interesting narrative that deviates from Dark vs Light mentallty and allow the gray scale of morality to exist... **Potential Spoilers** and if Light cannot exist without Dark then doesn't that make the cats of The Place of No Stars(The Dark Forest) just as important as those cats in StarClan? Plotholes galore.

[@CeruleanTrafficlight]

all of this makes "fire alone will save our clan" less about battle prowess and whatnot and more about how firestar, someone from outside thunderclan who welcomes in kittypets/rogues/other-clan refugees and also has friends and descendants who have/are shaking the status quo about half-clan relationships is pretty much the only reason thunderclan isnt as inbred as it could be

[@nopenope4502]

So basically Firestar saved tc from bad genetics.

[@featherlightfox1292]

Makes perfect sense to me. Because of him and his lack of prejudice, the clan was able to grow in numbers and strength again, and able to make relations and allies that would have been rejected in the past.

[@cacau8761]

Well... now comes Moonpaw disproving this thing about Thunderclan not being inbred.

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

Runningwind would have been an okay option: He was mentioned to not be working well with apprentices, so why not also with kits? That could explain a lot. Brindleface was always a very present mother who really enjoyed taking care of her children. She didn't need a mate to help her. Meanwhile Runningwind probably didn't want to spend time with the kits. In a weird way that couple complements each other.

[@1ceb3rg__]

I suppose that Brindleface just ended up mating with Runningwind, Darkstripe or any other random cats just for kits and not out of love. She seemed like she really enjoyed being in the nursery.

[@TheSakuraSunset]

You know what could have been said? That her mate was one of the many thunderclan warriors who had recently died in the ongoing war over sunningrocks. That Ashfur and Ferncloud's father was someone we'd never see or get any character for because, like for instance, Redtail, he died before the book really started.

[@whatisupdawg]

Id headcanon darkstripe as ash/ferns dad because it makes the most sense in my opinion. Darkstripe could easily have been with Brindleface either out of love or obligation(or hiding his love for Tigerstar) and then when she had kits he was like nope I cant do this anymore, ala Spiderleg. Or redemption arc style, maybe Darkstripe denied fathering them so that if he went with Tigerstar they wouldn’t be judged for being related to him like what happened to tawny/bramble. I think that could be a really cool dynamic to explore in his character either way

[@painthedoll]

True! Only issue I have is while I don't think it's an strick law, we see parents rarely mentor thier kits, so it be a bit odd for Bluestar just to decide to give Fernpaw to Dark when other cats were around. Runningwind to me seems the most interesting because it be a less lazy way to bring up Ashfur's fall as well as Ferncloud's discomfort with Darkstripe as her mentor As Runningwind had been killed by Tigerstar before Brindle, Ferncloud having to be mentored by the cat who had been the closest to her parents killer definitely be horrifying Ashfur being more willing to fight and aggression coming out more be a good contrast to Ferncloud with how they handled thier mothers passing, that being the last straw for Ash while Ferncloud still feeling a need to keep a level head to please a mentor she's scared of Of course think just me wanting more Ferncloud dhdhdhd

[@featherlightfox1292]

@@painthedoll I was on the dark stripe side so far, but your argument is very compelling and now I can’t choose which narrative I like better. Both explain things well, but I think your scenario is just slightly better. I vote Runningwind!

[@painthedoll]

@@featherlightfox1292 honestly both could have such interesting implications for the two's characters! Obviously I have a soft spot for Ferncloud so I could imagine how hard it would be for her with either. If Runningwind, she's nervous about being mentored by someone like Darkstripe who had been close to the one who ultimately killed her dad and later mother. Yet show how strong she is compared to Ashfur even more as she never let that change her heart. Even if she was in more danger then him. Plus we'd could get to explore a character left practically forgotten, how Runningwind viewed his kits and made before his death. We know he was close to his sister Mousefur so it wouldn't be hard to figure he'd care a lot about his kits. Ashfur I think would, as he got older, be all the worse parts of Runningwind. Why Ferncloud shown to be a good mix of her mother and father. Caring mother but a tougher fighter. If Darkstripe, both would have that sense of betrayal with their father. Ferncloud feeling pressure under the mentorship of her father. I could also see the hurt learning he cared more about getting Tigerstar's Kin to safety rather then them who just lost their mother. I don't think Darkstripe would ever had been a good father, nor a good mate. If he had been their father I could see Ferncloud getting upset and frustrated when she notices Ashfur's change. It be interesting, but I think Runningwind could be a good chance to explore his character...plus it could give us Mousefur being 10/10 great-aunt when Ferncloud's kits are born. Her befriending Longtail would also be even sweeter cause he's technically Ferncloud's uncle as well on her mother's side Longtail and Mousefur being the funky aunt and uncle would be so fun to me gtgfg

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

PLUS, Elderkit looks a lot like Darkstripe.

[@y0urfavoritew1tch]

DARKSTRIPE AND TIGERCLAW ARE COUSINS

[@stormSeven]

It’s pretty reasonable for Whitestorm and Brindleface to be friends since Brindleface was mentored by his grandfather and her sister was mentored by Bluestar, his aunt, who he’s pretty close too.

[@Julie-rz3dw]

It was also mentioned in Bluestar's Prophecy that Whitestorm, Brindleface, Tigerclaw and Frostfur had known eachother since they were kits so I just headcannon these two as close childhood friends

[@ajaxeldotcom]

Exactly, plus he was her and Frostfurs foster sibling when Snowfur died

[@3amhellbeast]

@@Julie-rz3dw Yep, that's kinda why I like the surrogate father idea for Whitestorm. Not actually Brindleface's mate, but he was just a good friend to her and looked after her. I love to think that her actual mate was maybe from a different clan (which I think would be a really cool idea? I love the idea of a background queen successfully having half clan kits and getting away with it with no one noticing. Especially such a sweet cat like brindleface 😂. Whitestorm is also the kind of friend who would definitely pretend to be dad too so she wouldn't get into trouble lolol), or I could see Darktail or Runningwind being the dad and Whitestorm wanted to be there for his friend. This also works too because Willowpelt could have been in on the secret and fell for Whitestorm for being a surrogate dad so the kits would have a bit of a father figure 😂 or maybe they were together before and had an accident litter too soon hahaha

[@kissyandjasper1632]

I never really thought much of the whole Whitestorm fathering Ashkit/fur, Fernkit/cloud, and the two kits who didn’t make it, who were retconned as being Tulipkit and Elderkit (I think those names are adorable btw) but now that you’ve really explained the whole situation I really do agree that it wouldn’t really make sense for his character as a whole because that’s just not something he would do. It’s just not the Whitestorm that we’ve come to know. As for the Smokey and Daisy thing, I think Smokey did care about Daisy in his own way but I don’t really think he actually loved her. Like kind of a scenario where maybe at one point he thought he did (I don’t think their relationship before Daisy joined ThunderClan was ever explained in much detail) but in the end he could only see her as a friend rather than a mate like he saw Floss or Coriander. Though I did really like how he named his kits in the Novella Daisy’s Kin Little Daisy and Coriander after Daisy and his late mate Coriander. I love your vids btw. Most of the Warrior Cats shorts are funny as heck and all of the I Spoils are just painfully accurate. 🤣💙

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

Bringing Smoky up again. I personally think he was supposed to represent real cats. Most male cats dont stick to one mate they just get a cat pregnant then go get another one pregnant. Ofc this isn't all but I've seen a lot of real life instances of this.

[@kissyandjasper1632]

@@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251 I agree with you, Smokey does seem like that kind of cat/character (not that it’s a bad thing). In a way it’s kind of like how Spiderleg was with Daisy. Like father wasn’t present in either the kits’ or the mate’s life (granted he never got another mate or anything). I do really like the point you bring up because it really makes sense. Also on the topic of Smokey representing real cats, I don’t think Smokey really cared that much when Floss’s kits were taken away did he? It’s been a while since I read the passage of Daisy’s decision to leave the barn in one of the field guides (I can’t remember which one it was). The reason I bring this point up is because for the most part male cats in real life don’t usually take much of an interest in their kittens’ lives.

[@Stormwolf4]

I can't even imagine Whitestorm being anything but the noble cat that he was

[@rowanheart8122]

Imagine that the father of Frostfur's kits is a kittypet. Bluestar was her mentor, which is why she would insist that queen's don't need to explain the father if they don't want to when in every other series or super edition this doesn't happen,

[@evdrexel5192]

I feel like the cats got WAY more anthropomorphized as the books go on.* In the start it was rare that toms cared about their kits just like cats in real life. Honestly I thought the books and especially the Fandom care too much about these cats being realistic. The Erins should've just let the background cats have emotions. *ETA: Forgot to say that I think the change was good. Having the characters be more human-like allows for deeper connection to the reader. These are supposed to be fantasy books not educational.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Sounds logical!

[@FuzzyDreamin]

Agreed, imo people worry too much about knowing every genetic connection/queens caring who they mate with, and with kits looking like said parents like real cat genetics. So long as the main characters make sense I'm ok

[@TheCloverGal]

I've always joked that Greystripe invented the concept of fatherhood/family

[@annawesometheflameingpikac3688]

Here's a thought: Willowpelt had kits with a rouge and Whitestorm took credit for them so she wouldn't get in trouble, and then felt too awkward to really parent them

[@zvyxrii]

That would make sense, considering how impossible it is for a white cat plus an almost white cat to produce two grays and a tortoiseshell. But I don't know much about genetics, so 👁️👅👁️

[@nightshademasquerade4703]

@@zvyxrii I think it actually might be possible! Gray / blue is a dilution of black fur, but shade isn't specified. And whitestorm isn't dominant white (blue eyes and deaf, think Snowkit) which leaves 100% white spotting. Which also means that white is "covering up" his base color - likely blue/gray because his dad is thistleclaw and his mother's sister is bluestar. As for sorreltail being a tortie, I think it's more of a nod to being related to redtail and spottedleaf than anything realistic. The Erin's aren't known for being genetically accurate, just look at firestars parents. He shouldn't be ginger lol. Anyway I love genetics and whitestorm don't mind me.

[@validark]

@@nightshademasquerade4703 irl cats take coat colours and patterns directly from their parents so if mums a white cat and dad is a white cat the kittens are going to be white Female cats will (irl) mate with multiple males when in heat and its not uncommon for litters to be fathered by several toms and have drastically different coats The cfa has a pretty good run-down on this

[@siqxyre8473]

Ashfur and ferncloud are absolutely the kits of Boulder, I take no criticism

[@Oribyx]

Your profile pic tho- xD it's amazing

[@rowanheart8122]

I hadn't even considered it. Boulder already broke the warrior code by denying his leader's word of wanting to change his name, I can see him breaking the warrior code by being the sire of ThunderClan kits. Especially given around the time Ash and Fern were born, Boulder was following Brokenstar and he would see being with Brindleface as an opportunity for more kits for ShadowClan

[@jaziferret1138]

The entire warrior cats family tree is a circle

[@TallthinksOLD]

Whitestorm is a cat. This means that he has intelligence. Edit: WOW I DIDNT EXPECT THIS TO BLOW UP!! 218 likes!!!

[@ThatArtisticBookwormYT]

Uhhh Moon, you've got it all wrong. In the allegiances of Leopardstar's Honor there are two Whitestorms, older Whitestorm and younger Whitestorm. Since there are two Whitestorms, therefore one Whitestorm is mates with Willowpelt and one with Brindleface. D u h

[@arrowskywalkertheweirdo]

ThunderClan cloned Whitestorm confirmed

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

Obviously how could i not notice this

[@bemad1008]

Ok- I suddenly unironically REALLY like the idea of Brindleface's mate being a kittypet. For one thing, it explains to me part of why she had no objections to taking in Cloudkit. Secondly, I always liked the idea of queens keeping their mates secret if they wanted. It always implied, to me at least, that cross-clan relationships are actually a really common thing. (I also don't like that they were ever called 'forbidden' in the text itself, really. Technically speaking, there's nothing in the code stating they are. So long as your loyalty stays with your clan, I really don't see why it would or should matter to them.) Third, I also never liked Whitestorm being the kits' father anyways. It has bad implications, and now everyone is related through him and Ferncloud. Erins, plese, he's a good cat. Let him be a dad to his three canon-confirmed kits as it is :')

[@RickyKingProductions]

I don't think everyone's family tree needs to be completely filled out for it to be a satisfying or "complete" story

[@kpcroxful]

Perhaps it would make sense for a cat outside the clan to be Brindlefaces mate/the kits father, and that Whitestorm finds out and acts distant due to it... And could also be one of the driving forces to why Brindleface accepted to care for Cloudkit. But that would still make him out to be a retcon because then he knowingly sends those kits to battle dogs.

[@SoEeveelicious]

My headcanon is that whitestorm is graystripe’s father, because willowpelt is whitestorm’s mate and is also graystripe’s mother. Instead of having graystripe’s parents be siblings, that’s what I choose to believe anyway.

[@CircusSabre]

Jake is no longer everyone's father whitestorm is everyone's father

[@LotusAndGlitch]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

[@PixelPalettes]

I like the idea of Brindleface having a Kittypet mate, and Cloudkit reminded her of her mate, so she had all the more reason to take him in :)

[@1ceb3rg__]

Imagine if her "mate" who was allegedly a kittypet was Oliver, Cloudtail's father. Who was also a kittypet.

[@lilytheangel.]

@@1ceb3rg__ imagine when cloudtail dies, princess tells him his father is Oliver, the white fluffy kitty pet. then brindleface tells cloudtail about Oliver being his sorta father. then cloudtail realizes that he was around the same age as ferncloud and ashfur. cloudtail then thinks that Oliver had two mates and may have cheated on one

[@floweringfawn]

Darkstripe being the father actually makes a lot of sense from Moon's perspective

[@ribottostudio]

This is just more proof that there needs to be a fandom bible and that would be the job of the fandom consultant. So there needs to be a fandom consultant.

[@mysryuza]

More like consultants* because having only one person directing the whole thing is gonna be super overwhelming

[@brambleheart]

Personally I think Redtail is the father. He was Sandstorm’s father, and his death would line up with a cat’s pregnancy length. Even if it is a bit longer, it could be affected by Brindleface’s grief, which could have been a factor of two of the kits dying.

[@dewniper]

The part I don’t like about this is that then Ashfur is 100% Squirrelflight’s uncle

[@Thewavedemonjackal]

Plus, and IK warriors doesn’t give 2 damns about real world genetics, as a male tortoiseshell cat, something that is usually a genetic impossibility or something that can lead to issues like infertility, if the kits were Redtail’s, then they could also suffer from genetic issues that could have killed them, which also supports that Redtail could be the father.

[@eternalposts680]

@@ShadowSailor Redtails novella is just kinda a mess all around, though

[@InfernoCleric384]

Which makes Ashfur x Squirrelflight all the more creepy...

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

that would make ashfur having a crush on squirrelflight WORSE

[@_whitnii_]

I like the idea of the old 'mothers don't have to tell anyone unless they want to' rule being there, but I think that at least the authors should have it mapped out. Like 'Brindleface and Smugde are the parents of Ash and Fern' written down somewhere, but that's never revealed to the audience since those are both background characters who Firestar (our narrative character) doesn't really spend much time with by the point that it's relevant. Family ties in the series aren't always super important, even to main characters, whereas some of them it's very important to. I think the Three is when familial ties became a bigger focus, and the old 'you don't have to tell' rule went out of the window. And, well... If they had stuck to the old rule and left it more ambiguous, we wouldn't have the issue now with Brindle and her siblings. We would have no idea and things would be less weird.

[@druidshollow]

the idea of evil being genetic is really upsettimg to ppl w abusive/bad parents lol.... ive never liked it as a trope or whatever edit: HEY its okay if your experience as an abuse victim is different fromt his and it doesnt bother you! i didnt mean to generalize, i was speaking from my experience as a survivor. thank you please dont argue in the rwplies lol

[@oumakoki]

It’s related so heavily to eugenics and yet everyone is okay with it 😃

[@SheeploverSheepyWeepy]

SAY that to the gacha kids who make those since they normalize it

[@someoneimsure]

Not everyone with abusive parents feels that way. Dont generalize.

[@mysryuza]

Thank you

[@mysryuza]

@@someoneimsure There are people who have (including I) and that’s who they’re referring to specifically. Accusing of generalization can easily be interpreted as not seeing from other people’s perspectives. But you do you.

[@RedAngelKira]

Personally I headcanoned that if a queen is concern that the actual father will be found out [and they don't want it to for whatever reasons] they ask Whitestorm to pretend that he's the father. He seems like the Tom that don't ask, don't tell, just do for his clanmates' sake and comfort and want all kits and apprentices to be wanted and loved by the clan. It especially works out when we know he grew up being close to Tigerkit/paw and saw how the clan treated him when Pinestar left to become a kitty pet and how that affected Tiger to his very core(before the omen even starts to take place).

[@XxJellyOwlxX]

In my headcanon, Brindleface was mates with Redtail but he was infertile so they couldnt have babies even though they really wanted to. They adopted an orphaned rogue kit who they named Sandkit but really wanted more babies. So Whitestorm offers to be a donor and that's what happens.

[@lostinthestars_]

That's a good headcanon

[@pinky0558]

After Snowfur died Whitestorm was taken in by Robinwing. Brindleface's mother! Whitestorm and Brindleface are foster siblings (This was stated in Bluestar's prophecy)

[@pinky0558]

@mrdoe97 I know its possible I'm just saying its weird.

[@thelanktheist2626]

@mrdoe97 Yeah and that’s weird considering adoptive relationships can be just as close as the authentic one.

[@kellybmackenzie]

Whitestorm is one of my favorite characters and he's so sweet! I really hate the idea that he somehow was not there for his kits, especially considering I have family trauma that's exactly like that. It'd upset me so much. Which is why I agree with you completely there! It'd just make Whitestorm look awful and he doesn't deserve that, he's so nice!

[@DJdally123]

I feel like there are queens who have a father to their kits, but they don’t want to be mates, they just have kits with them, that’s all

[@nukiradio]

You're her Mate. "Yes" And these are her kits "Yes" So, logically, this must be.. YOUR DAUGHTER "I dont follow"

[@Eldergodintheformofakitten]

This isn't relevant to the topic of the video but I LOVE these 10-20 minute long rant videos. They're so fun to listen to and I like hearing your opinions, Moon!

[@SavaanahTrick]

Considering Darkstripe is in parts of the Broken Code book I like to think he would follow Ashfur because he is his son.

[@abigailkondoudis5772]

Honestly my favorite idea is that Ashfur and Fernclouds dad was a kittypet. It would help explain why Brindleface was so patient and loving with Cloudkit and it would add some irony with Ashfurs kittypet prejudice. (Even though he grew up with an adoptive kittypet brother and the girl he loves has an ex-kittypet father who is also now clan leader so he really shouldn’t have a prejudice but whatever Erin’s)

[@rickastley4587]

Yeah, the whole Whitestorm thing confused me as a kid. Thanks for clearing this up Moon.

[@vxeipc1570]

Soooo, it`s a headcanon-sharing time. I know nobody asked for it but still I think the idea of Stonefur being the father of Ashfur and Fernstraw is kinda okay. Consider this: Firstly, both Ashfur and Fernstraw are gray and in cats` genetics it requires both parents to be gray. Secondly, Stonefur is Appledusk`s descendent and that would mean that he would also suffer from Mapleshade`s curse and so would do his kits And here we go - Ashfur and his "loved too much"-issue and Fernstraw losing her 3 kittens (as she was alive) just the way Mapleshade did Also, Stonefur and his "kittens" died in very gruesome ways or suffered through their lives I mean, Stonefur/Blackfoot is cool, Brindleface/Redtail/Runningwid is cool, but this theory is okay-ish

[@LightningBea]

Fernstraw😭

[@ee8002]

@Carbon OP might be Ukrainian

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

Fernstraw?

[@crystalplayz3514]

Cat genetics are not important in warriors,

[@jodiethewriter]

Not gonna lie, I thought Moon was gonna talk about the Whitestorm problem from the Leopardstar’s Honor allegiances lmao

[@StinginqNettle]

Very pretty Brindleface design

[@kiradeki3561]

I like the idea of kits with unknown parents having parents from outside the clans, or at least outside of the characters we KNOW are in the clans. Give us more clean bloodlines.

[@shecat105]

I've been thinking about the whole retconning parentages thing so much lately myself. Mostly because of the excuses I've seen from the Erin's, especially Vicky. I understand and respect that the series just wasn't meant to be as big as it is, but using that as an excuse over 10+ (now nearly 20) years later with no end in sight is just so lazy and disrespectful to fans. Either never try to fix the issue and leave it to be what it is, a big ol' mess, or shove some dead cats, kittypets, or rogues in there. "Oh, didn't you know? Name was a rogue back in the day!" "Name wasn't born into the Clan. We found them abandoned at that one place in that one area when they were only days old! We couldn't leave such a poor, helpless scrap to die." "Name never told anyone who fathered/mothered their kits. It's not necessary for anyone to know, so no one ever asked. So long as the kits are loyal to the Clan, that's all that matters." The last one even leaving things open for literally ANY possibility, but still retaining one parent to be acknowledged. Lineages/Parentages were going to be a horrid problem from the start as soon as the series started to grow. I get the feeling Vicky particularly feels some sort of duty to give actual answers that aren't "It wasn't supposed to be like this but here we are." Sometimes there just isn't an answer, or one hasn't been decided on, yet. I think some transparency/honesty there would have saved all of us, Erin's and fans alike, the frustration of trying to figure things out. Heck, the whole incest issue would have been resolved if Clan cats breeding with Non-Clan cats was more common in these retcons. If half the Clan secretly had relationships outside the Clans, or even cross just Clan which would increase the gene pool alone, it would explain why most cats in the OG series just... actually don't care too much about cats outside the Clans? So long as they stay out of the territory, it's fine. You can't tell me NO Clan cat EVER has gone outside Clan territory just to see what's out there in the world, even for a few hours. Sorry this is so long, I did say I've been thinking about it a lot lol

[@Spectorwing]

In Canon ashfur and ferncloud were created in unicelular division.

[@flask223]

Good for them

[@atolixia4051]

You could say it was a Hollyflower and Blizzardwing relationship, an accident, meaning Whitestorm didn’t want to acknowledge his second children when he was already mates with Willowpelt. Random thing I thought about but for the love of god, *WHITESTORM ISNT FERNCLOUDS AND ASHFURS FATHER*

[@sharpthehybrid6460]

As a older fan myself. I agree with you here. I don't like when new deals are added to the old books because it didn't happen in the old books. When you willy nilly start changing a book arc that been around sense 2003. It's now 2021. I feel we need to focus on the newer characters. Like the small details in the background. Like the whole Rosepetal liking bumblestripe. Or the whole berrynose finally becoming a problem character inside thunderclan (before it was competly written out in the next book) but how can we get new intresting characters if we keep focusing on arc one.

[@suicunetobigaara]

I absolutely agree with this. Making Whitestorm the father of Ashfur and Ferncloud goes against his character. It always felt off that he was made their father, both narrative wise and character wise, as you pointed out in this video. Despite some explanations which might work, it felt a bit hollow. I had always hoped this retcon would be well... retconned. Edit: Retconned as in, change it back to not knowing the father or taking back the change.

[@StealthheartDraws]

What if Brindleface’s mate died in battle before the series started?

[@2devious724]

The idea that I liked the most was that Redtail was the father of Sandstorm as well as Ashfur and Ferncloud since the timelines added up and Brindleface was pregnant at the time he died.

[@spiltkool-aid]

basically the incest scenario

[@2devious724]

@@spiltkool-aid incest to whom?

[@missraven420]

It was canon that Redtail was the Father of Sandstorm but it was later changed because then Ashfur would wanna "bang" his half niece. They didn't want incest in Warriors.

[@2devious724]

@@missraven420 oooooh forgot about that

[@quicksilverchaos4122]

@@missraven420 they already canonized so much incest with bramblexsquirrel, fernxivy, and all that

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

This is what I think: Once the warriors wiki said Redtail was Brindlefaces mate. Ik the warriors wiki is very confusing but my headcannon is Brindleface wanted to have kits with Redtail but ofc he died so she asked Whitestorm to father her kits so she could live out her dream of being a mother. The warriors wiki also said he *fathered* Ash and Fern which doesn't necessarily mean he was you know their male parental figure. Again this is the warriors wiki we're talking about so idk and it's no longer there. This is just my headcannon tho

[@SkyPangolin]

she was already a mother when redtail died, they had sandstorm before he died

[@birdsbirdsandmorebirds6251]

@@SkyPangolin didn't they change that? Well if they did have kits maybe she just wanted more 🤷

[@taeko3508]

My headcanon is that Darkstripe and Brindleface had a one night stand. Since Darkstripe is terrible Brindleface choose to do all the parenting and not tell Darkstripe the kits were his Or maybe the kits' father is an outsider and Whitestorm covers for Brindleface

[@kitsooneesther8338]

Broke: Jake is everone's dad Woke: Whitestorm is everyone's dad

[@Tony_With_A_B]

In leopardstars honor we get waaaaay more insight into parental/familial roles on the clans it's it's really refreshing to just see a whole clan actually interact with each other. I look forward to seeing a video with your thoughts on it 👀

[@starvoltnexus3139]

Well how leopard fur was bullied disturbs me a little But it does make me wonder if they did that specifically to drum up sympathy for the character but

[@jellyfishbonemeal2766]

I really like the idea of darkstripe being the father of ashkit and fernkit- it might not make much sense but it makes some really interesting symbolism between Tigerstar and his kits. Darkstripe was controlled a lot by Tigerstar, and is considered a coward by a large chunk of the fandom, much like how ashfur is considered a coward by never taking direct action himself. Ashfur and ferncloud would also have been the kits of a gross old evil man that nobody liked, which would parallel Brambleclaw and Tawnypelt being the kits of an even grosser, older, eviler man nobody liked. Even though ash and fern probably wouldn't have known their dad, it's a cool concept still. Maybe some moral about "accepting yourself" or "knowledge is power but is twice the burden to carry" or some lame theme like that I don't mean this in an evil is genetic way, but more so through an interesting parallel to our main character. They had similarities in how they were raised, their parentage, but what made them different was their personalities and their nature.

[@LeafpooltheMedicineCat]

Suggestion-Brindleface was in a half Clan relationship, and had kits, so Whitestorm helped her and pretended to be the father, but fell in love with Willowpelt and had kits with her.

[@nightrocker1343]

I like the Darkstripe angle. He immediately abandoned Brindleface when she took in Cloudkit. Honestly I kinda interpreted Whitestorm being happy to hear about new kits, in general, and Fireheart misinterpreting that as "Yes. Those are my babies. That's my mate."

[@WolfLover22063]

In the area of 8:28 I’m left thinking about poor Moonkitti and I’m thinking “Poor Moonkitti she’s probably got her head spinning in a million different directions talking about this!”

[@bhkittycat2255]

Dappletail is at least 90 moons older than Runningwind, and if they had kits together, that means Dappletail was 90+ moons when her kits were born. I checked the wiki.

[@Linkurz]

I don’t know how this showed up in my recommended because I know nothing of warrior cats but here I am listening intently

[@TheMagicPinecone]

Honestly, I now headcanon Darkstripe as Ash and Fern's dad. It actually makes a lot of sense, AND add to the plot! Darkstripe would've simply abandoned Brindleface when she adopted Cloudtail, because of his hate for kittypets. Not to mention said kittypet being related to Firestar, someone he deeply hated. The kittens would've most likely been too young to actually remember the break-up, but I'd imagine Brindleface pulling a Moonflower. Except she most likely would've been bitter and resentful when talking about Darkstripe... And that, coupled with Darkstripe's abandonment, would easily result in the "anonymous father" thing. And this could've easily corrupted Ashfur from a young age. Not only is he always hearing how terrible is dad is, but that he abandoned them because of a kittypet. That could easily lead to his kittypet xenophobia. And I know Cloudtail is an adoptive sibling, but do you remember them interacting as adults? I honestly don't... Could've been estrangement just because of Cloud's origins. And his non-existent relationship with his father, coupled by his mom's death, all at a young age, can definitely lead to the severe abandonment issues that he has...

[@anonmusbrothers6577]

can't forget about the two most popular kits, "Thorrkit" and "Brackerkit"

[@kiwibixd4004]

The “We had kittens as friends” killed me

[@songbird6414]

Off topic but remember in Bluestar’s Prophecy when there was just a random ass half clan cat that was mentioned once and then never touched on again? Windflight, anyone?

[@arianalei8364]

Ah yes, the Whitestorm everyone loves has been exposed by Moonkitti.... 👀

[@Moonkitti]

I did this out of love for Whitestorm

[@glowinqlu]

@@Moonkitti honestly I cried when whitestorm died

[@roamingfantasy]

I know it's just a detail in the video, but Runningwind couldn't even have kits with Dappletail, because Dappletail was infertile! The Erins apparently like to forget that detail after Bluestar's Prophecy :') (i might be wrong about this but honestly, i'm not gonna bring out my copy of BP to check it out because if the Erins won't, then i won't either! :D)

[@The_Mind_Electric_number_1_fan]

"It's becuse what I just said Goodbye." -Moonkitti 2021

[@anxiouswaffle._.419]

I noticed that in the old family tree has blue star under unknown lineage, I guess it was created before Pinestar’s choice and spottedleaf’s heart? Where those books directly show who’s bluestar’s mother and father are?

[@annariley4455]

If evilness is genetic, then why isn’t Bramblestar evil? (Not possessed Bramblestsr, actual Bramblestar) his father was Tigerstar(claw), the most evil cat in the forest and his mentors biggest enemy. Bramblestar proved time and time again as a warrior that he wasn’t his father, that he was a good cat. Sure, Bramblestar is kinda an jerk to Squirrelflight, but what I’m personally hoping, is that when Ashfur is defeated, and the real Bramblestar comes back, that he learns from his mistakes and becomes better. In the most recent arc, it is show that Bramblestar dearly misses Squirrelflight and just wants to be with her again, and he treasures any moment with her as it could be his last. I believe that Bramblestar, through the Trials of Ashfur, has learned how to be a better cat, and a better mate. Aside from that, if evilness was genetic, then he would be just as bad as Tigerstar, which isn’t true. One might say “oh, but Hawkfrost was evil” yes he was, but I think that was more from him having too strong ambitions, then him getting his evilness from Tigerstar. He never met Tigerstar besides in his dreams, and I think he wanted his father to accept him so badly that he became evil. Tigerstar may have influenced him, but it was his choice alone to do what he did.

[@mysryuza]

I don’t believe evilness is genetic, but more of bad habits and personality traits rather than evilness in general. But I also agree with your statement about influence too

[@cryptidkoi8418]

I have an idea! What if Brindleface had a relationship with a kittypet, and Whitestorm let people assume he was the father to protect her? It could relate to how brindleface is soft with cloudkit, but whitestorm isn’t really a father.

[@-may-8003]

Ah yes. Warrior cats the infuince to me making my own version of this book

[@jackallope2200]

Thanks for this video, I'm trying to make a warrior cats family tree (I've been doing this for 3 days and just got done with Firestar's family, which includes Whitestorm) and videos like this really help me make it more accurate. Since I don't have time to meticulously search through every book to find who's related to who, I have to rely on the wiki. This is an issue when the wiki gets things wrong or has unconfirmed facts. Now Firestar's family tree is slightly less related

[@Rosefur_wcue]

Nah the brindleface and willowpelt problem confuses me because whitestorm was brindleface's mate and foster sister (not to mention frostfur showing up outta nowhere) other then Frostfur being mentioned as whitestorm's mate in a dangerous path

[@TigerStride_wcue]

5:45 in the book “ a dangerous path” dark stripe says to fireheart “but what about the apprentices? Fernkit is too young to fight” I guess he could be protecting his kit, even though he no longer wants to be a father figure

[@MetalSlayer221]

In my opinion, the kits were just fathered by a random loner and since she-cats are able to just not say who the father is, she didn't and everyone kind of just assumed it was whitestorm or darkstripe or someone within the clan and didnt really question it considering the kits look like they could be whitestorm or darkstripe's children.

[@MetalSlayer221]

We really do need more kittypet/loner/rogues as fathers of kits where nobody questioned it and just assumed it was someone else. Would be great for genetic diversity without seeming non-canon

[@ceastar]

All I’ve wanted from this series for the past 10+ years was a clear family tree with updated, fixed relationships (ex: ALL that you mentioned and changing Dustpelt and Ravenpaw’s parents so Dustpelt would no long be Ferncloud’s uncle).

[@emmaesta9444]

Im all for rogue or kittypet papa for Fern and Ash!!! I think thatd be fun!! I dont think a forbidden half clan would be as fun as its OVERDONE TO SHIT but i think a rogue or kittypet being their dad would be way more interesting and fun! They had to break up bc the owners moved away or the rogue got chased out and gravely wounded. I think thatd be heartbreaking, i love it >:) Oo!! New headcannon!! Brindleface grew up hearing the story of Mapleshade as a kit so she worries her and her kits will be ejected from the clan. She confides in the trustworthy Whitestorm (they dont even have to be very close) and he pulls a Thrustpelt and just says they're his kits to those asking too much. The reason i say they dont have to be close is bc it explains why he holds little regard for her and the kits. I like to think he'd be a great guy like that and that he was actually influenced by Thrushpelt. I also like to think that he would be more in their lives but he got too caught up in his real relationship and his warrior duties to fully be there for him

[@Alyciadickinson]

in my mind willowpelt and whitestorm are greystripes parents, as well as willowpelts other kids. and darkstripe is the father to fern and ash but it's a spiderleg-daisy situation.

[@Littlefox1213]

I can see Whitestorm as Willowpelt’s mate more than Brindleface’s

[@BPJD2004]

Graystripe's dad is Patchpelt, and no one can change my mind or make me feel guilty about it.

[@syti472]

Hi Moonkitti! I absolutely adore these think-piece videos. Thank you for the great content!

[@bearidotindisguise]

"I'm adopting the kittypet" "Bye" Idk why I thought that was so funny

[@luner_eclipse_studios1719]

I like to think that maybe Brindleface wanted to have kits, but she didn't have a mate to have kits woth so Whitestorm was a doner but let her raise the kits alone like she wanted.

[@ANNEKE1999]

For Brindleface - why a mate? Could have been a one-night-stand with any tom. Maybe that's also why we do not know for sure. It was an "accident". Could be that even Brindleface doesn't know who the father is.

[@whitelynx881]

I have no clue how or if the gonna fix the genetic problems in thunderclan they probably won't knowing the Erin's , I'd say kill off a bunch of cats with sickness or something and spawn in some new characters that have no familiar ties with any cats and give stormcloud a mate, possibly cherryfall?

[@ee8002]

Stormcloud spent a lot of time with Sparkpelt and her kits when she was depressed after Larksong's death, so her, maybe?

[@whitelynx881]

@@ee8002 maybe but the age gap is a little odd

[@ee8002]

I don't think it's that big honestly, and that it even matters since they're both adult cats who started getting closer to eachother when they were both warriors (besides they were just really cute in SqH, but all of this is just my opinion)

[@kiingdomkey3857]

ashfur is literally the epitome of fatherless behavior

[@CelestialTabris]

moon i hear u. i hear you. and i agree. i think youre so right, ur always right. but i do love emotional constipated whitestorm thats not necessarily a bad person but just unintentionally passes on generational trauma by trying to keep cordial healthy relationships and making one relationship fluke that perhaps they both werent committed to. not necessarily evil is genetic but that by whitestorm trying so hard not to be a bad father by keeping a respectful distance… ashfur is really the only one who comes out (gestures) like that. i just like thinking about it. i think it gives him an interesting flaw…i just think its neat. holds it in my hands. ur lovely

[@Moonkitti]

o_o Ashfur....

[@CelestialTabris]

@@Moonkitti unintentionally giving ur son an attention complex… like a tasty breezepelt plotline that wins

[@CelestialTabris]

@@Moonkitti but thats also probabky why i like it. because breezepelts plot is similar except everyone makes it uncomfortable and breezestar isnt sending windclan into an unsustainable sprial rn. i have a craving for an actually wel written unhinged child

[@Taifune81]

I never fully realized who was with who outside of fireheart/sandstorm for the most part honestly. Everyone in the background blended together. When I realized that Whitestorm had two mates (or at least I thought he did) it made me wonder who he was with in SC, then I realized it was never addressed, hell those cats never show up. Very convenient way to ignore the problem which makes me wonder if any cat who has had more than one mate will just fade into obscurity once they die to avoid that difficult question (especially since they really established SC as this heaven that overlooks the real world) I don't think cats know how to have contraceptives or whatever though, because look at Leafpool and Crowfeather...