To Buffer Or Not To Buffer: That Is The Question - That Pedal Show

Mick has a buffer problem on his pedalboard. It’s not before his fuzz, but after. Let’s see if we can solve it…
Life too short for long KZbin videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Welcome friends. The subject of buffers ranks among the most interminably tiresome of all. And yet the tonal differences to be discovered in this darkened corner of the tone galaxy are as chasmic as they are confounding.
Hmm. Well this one is an actual, real-life problemmette for me (Mick here). As we discover, I simply adore the Dan Drive Secret Machine fuzz, darling. But it is songstrel of the flightiest nature and requires some consistent bufferage to keep its sweet voice in check. In other words, the pedals you put after it make a massive difference to the sound.
“But why?” we hear you cry.
If you’re hoping for some sort of concrete answer, unfortunately it swims with the fishes. Thusly and as this video proves, you’re going to need to dive in and brave the waters. Buffer ye, or buffer ye not: that is your question. Allow us to at least partially illuminate the way…
Enjoy the episode!
Pedals & stuff in this episode…
• Dan Drive Secret Machine
Contact Dan directly - [e-mail]
• KingTone MiniFuzz Ge
www.kingtoneguitar.com/produc...
• Analog Man Sun Face (this one is a BC183)
www.buyanalogman.com/Analog_M...
• Phil Robinson Silicon Phuzz
www.philrobinsonfxpedals.co.u...
• 29 Pedals Euna
www.believableaudio.com/produ...
• J Rockett Immortal Echo
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3iCnpnn
USA: imp.i114863.net/916YY
Australia: bit.ly/3looVv7
• Catalinbread Belle Epoch Deluxe
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2RVldeS
Australia: bit.ly/2Ovelqa
USA: bit.ly/2ZvVCSk
• Klon Centaur Professional Overdrive - No longer made. Our fave current Klon-alikes include these…
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2Yw4baJ
Australia: bit.ly/2uz9vvI
USA: bit.ly/3lck6HM
• Mythos Argo
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2UT0EVw
USA: bit.ly/3xp1hGl
Australia: bit.ly/3qt3Y4s
• Keeley D&M Drive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2oTblU1
Australia: bit.ly/2pUDUAE
USA: bit.ly/3E2Eqmw
• Supro Tremolo
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2pZrAkZ
USA: imp.i114863.net/eo076
Australia: bit.ly/2K36f3B
• Catalinbread Echorec
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2mORqUL
Australia: bit.ly/2BWjXTM
USA: bit.ly/2ZrMjCT
* Why do we have preferred retailer links? Find out here: www.thatpedalshow.com/partners
Interesting bits and go-to sections…
- Intro playing: 00:00
- What are we doing today? 01:58
- Today’s signal chain: 03:28
- The main problem is this: 04:50
- What about a different fuzz?: 11:45
- Is it the echo? LIGHTBULB!: 16:18
- Move the buffer down the chain? 19:45
- This buffer or that buffer?: 26:28
- Overdrive - D&M, Klon: 31:00
- Echorec buffer further forwards?: 35:00
- 29 Pedals Euna…: 38:58
- …vs shortest cable possible: 45:26
- Load & cap is part of the tone: 48:30
- Er, humbuckers?: 49:15
- Conclusions: where should my buffer go?: 51:20
Guitars in this episode:
• 1965 Fender Telecaster - no video yet
• Fender American Vintage ’62 Stratocaster - Mick’s video at bit.ly/2cQv3yT
• Gibson Custom True Historic ’57 Les Paul Goldtop, Murphy Aged
Amps in this episode
• Two Rock Classic Reverb Signature with Two-Rock 212 cabinet / TR 1265B speakers
We hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe to our channel.
You can buy TPS merch to support our efforts www.thatpedalshowstore.com
We are on Patreon - crowdfunding for creatives
/ thatpedalshow
Please visit our preferred retailers!
UK & Europe: Andertons Music bit.ly/2cRvIvt
Australia: Pedal Empire bit.ly/2mWmJQf
USA: That Pedal Shop www.thatpedalshop.com/

[@chadhuard818]

Only way I'm ever going to sit down and listen to 1hr of nerding over buffers is for TPS. I hope you guys don't mind the comparison, but for me TPS is the Top Gear of the guitar world.

[@stevedixon8567]

except neither goes round punching people when their dinner’s not ready

[@chadhuard818]

@@stevedixon8567 good point. Top Gear if the Top Gear hosts were funny and entertaining, but also considerate, inclusive and well adjusted. Maybe the comparison isn't that great ;-)

[@chadhuard818]

Oh, and respectful of other viewpoints. That's a big deal, and missing from too much of modern life, but found in abundance at TPS!

[@jonathanbarton271]

So true ! My favorite is when Dan breaks down the signal chain and describes what’s happening with the sound waves. That helps me understand as a visual person and a teacher lmao

[@StringsOfCrossroads]

That is Top Gear before it went shite!

[@lance134679]

Way back in the '80s, some of us just had a half dozen Boss pedals in a line (all buffered bypass, of course) and we didn't have to learn about this stuff. It wasn't great with so many buffers, but it was okay :-)

[@michael_caz_nyc]

I have 10 pedals on my pedalboard, and I had to Experiment for 3 weeks before I settled on Pedal Order. It was so draining . . . but in retrospect, worth-the-time and effort: to get it right.

[@luislazaro1071]

Mick's playing just keeps getting better and better 🔥

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thank you!

[@shawnmcvey7789]

With all the cool videos and challenges they do they'll only get better!

[@LEgoiste]

Both of them have their mojo back...

[@PhilipValdesMusic]

That was really interesting plugging straight into the amp with a tiny patch cable that it sounded just like a buffered signal though a normal one

[@ThatPedalShow]

Boom

[@chadhuard818]

I've heard that Albert Collins used a 100' cable so he could walk around the club (or even the sidewalk outside). Just imagine if he used a patch cable! Ice pick, squared?

[@weschilton]

That really was an eye opener!

[@hoboroadie]

Little Labs has a gadget called the STD that I think has the buffer built into the plug that you can put straight into the guitar if you want. I used to have a Hofner 459 guitar with the Fuzz and Treble Boost built into the body.

[@jamarwright]

I absolutely loved this episode. I've run into this exact issue with buffers after fuzz. Super helpful findings for the rest of us. Thanks guys!

[@PJSGBC]

No joke at all... I just did almost the exact short cable/lead thing days ago... I have a Player Series Strat that is the brightest guitar of my 5... I made two cables to customize length for my office and the lower capacitance was too bright! I knew there was more signal and less loss/suck... but it just was not better... so I ended up putting a cheap buffer midway through my chain and using the darker cable to balance it out. In other words, had I waited two days, you would have given me all the answers and saved me tons of work! Next time do the video on Tuesday guys! Ha ha ha... true story. With my tests, this is the first time I grasp buffering in a practical way... thanks so much!

[@johnballantyne3458]

Mick used to say “I can’t grow facial hair” and now he’s looking like the sheriff of Boogie Town.

[@captainamerica9353]

I wish I couldn't grow facial hair.

[@johnballantyne3458]

I should have said the sheriff of Rockingham.

[@Yupppi]

It's a really nice beard! All it took was courage to look funny for some time before it happens!

[@5000rgb]

@@johnballantyne3458 I liked Boogie Town.

[@MatveiKamerav]

While some might think this isn’t a particularly sexy topic, this might be one of the most universally helpful topics you guys have ever covered! SO illuminating. There is no guitarist on the planet who doesn’t benefit from this video. Thank you, as ever, for being the informative, inspiring legends that you are!

[@shredgd5]

Finally! I've been commenting (and giving my solution, see below) about the deleterious effect of buffers even *after*, not only before, fuzz faces for YEARS. I'm pretty sure I already commented under one of your previous videos on the topic, at least once. I also always alert people that buffers are not all the same and that the simple bipolar transistor buffers are the best sounding ones (i.e. the ones that more faithfully give you that guitar-->single 5 meters cable-->amp tone, without any added shrillness). You can also watch one of my few videos where a show how even simply swapping the transistor type in the same buffer changes its tone. But my comments probably get buried or judged too bold because most people say "it's simple, just put your buffer after your fuzz!". No, it's not! (As you showed) So, here is my trick and solution for fuzz faces and buffers after them: you MUST reproduce the capacitance of the (usually) long cable you have from the pedalboard to the amp to get the same tone! So in my fuzz faces, and in those of my friends, I always add a 470-560pF capacitor from the central (output) lug of the fuzz volume pot to ground and make it toggle-switchable. Then, I always have a buffer or a buffered pedal after my fuzz face. This way my tone is consistent: if I don't use the fuzz, I have a stable buffered signal which feeds my other pedals and cable; if I use the fuzz, I don't have any unexpected behavior from it, the tone is as good as without any buffer because my fuzz actually "sees" a 5 meters cable after it, before the first buffer; if I want to play my fuzz straight into the amp with no other effects, I toggle the cap off, and I have the standard fuzz face circuit. Hope this will help as many people as possible! Cheers from Italy! Giulio

[@thefilthyjesusexperiment6924]

Dan, Mick, This was a great show. This is exactly what a pedal build juggle is about (it’s not just how do i fit the pedals on a board) Guitars pedals amps cables are not as simple as 1 + 2 + 3 = 6 every element interacts with each other for better and or worse. I used to think once I moved from “cheap” gear everything would be fine but of course any piece of gear can be good and or bad depending what it’s being played with. At the moment I have a two channel amp the clean channel is brighter than the dirty channel. I have an always on light overdrive I use with the clean channel which balances things out. I have and octave up pedal (last part of the Hendrix fuzz) that’s at the end of the signal chain after buffers and other pedals the fuzz part is at the start of the chain. I feel simultaneously like I have found the perfect recipe and I’ve painted myself into a corner and I can’t change. Thanks for all your work.

[@MrAxman53]

First pedal in my chain: TC Electronic Polytune 3 with built in buffer turned on. At the end of the chain are two Eventide H9s with buffered bypass with trails turned on in both. After that is my final boost, the Xotic Super Sweet Boost with the buffer also turned on in that! I don't use any vintage fuzz pedals, just my Earthquaker Hoof Fuzz. Works for me!

[@kcole-xi9km]

My take away: it just illustrates why so many people have such a hard time with fuzz. That rabbit hole is DEEP!

[@ThatPedalShow]

So deep

[@richardwood6121]

@@ThatPedalShow Deep enough for many cans of worms, some already open, some to be discovered.

[@rafsbio]

I always had my ole’ TC Flashback 1 at the end of my chain (after the loop-switcher output) on buffered-bypass mode and boom. I’m feeling very validated after this episode! Haha!

[@alanmarcolongo3727]

@@rafsbio Man I had my switcher last week and my Octafuzz is having issues when I turn my Flashback on. So you mean you put it after the switcher out, and that solves the problem? I will try it. But is a shame that doing so you will have no control for the Flashback on the switcher 's presets, right?

[@godbyone]

Don’t even like fuzz at all. Sounds like broken drive

[@watzup62]

Mick: "Methinks I dost need a buffer." Dan: "Forsooth."

[@c.p.1589]

Ye, Verily.

[@slesnick3]

Solid Show -- Important topic. I ventured down the True Bypass rabbit hole at one point only to have the pendulum swing back the other way. My approach now, good or bad, is not put too much thought into it all UNLESS, I run into an issue like you demonstrated. As to how I have my pedalboard wired, the difference any one buffer plays may be insignificant. In its current configuration, much like the setup in the show, I run everything (symbolically) in a straight line; pedal to pedal to pedal. As my compressor is always at the start of the chain, set with a nice blend and light compression, it provides a buffer-like function and helps drive the signal down stream. I also, for the most part, leave my JHS Clover on all of the time (mid-chain). In addition, the delays and reverbs are set in trails mode (buffer on) so again, there exist a plethora of buffers along the path. One thought I have -- and perhaps I am wrong in this -- I like the idea of all my effects getting a full and robust signal for them to then process, thus (and especially with delays and verbs) I get to hear all of the life, nuances, and personality of said effects. To combat the potential shrill, I currently run the Strymon Deco at the very end of the chain to add some warmth and saturation -- sort of polish the rough edges/spikes on the final tone that is delivered to the amp. --- Food for thought: perhaps there is an 'Anti-Buffer' that could be placed at the end of the chain to add a little dulling effect. ----

[@thomasstretton8574]

This episode has taught me so much. Brilliant. That patch cable directly to amp blew my mind.

[@ttammcnulty]

“Do you expect me to ‘high impedance output’?” “No Mr Bond, I expect you to buffer!”

[@TraneFrancks]

Yet another fascinating rabbit hole, guys. I really enjoyed this.

[@johnw777]

Always an education, this channel..... Now after not touching my board for 2 months, I will be playing with buffers this weekend.....Thanks D & M!

[@gearathon]

Just found this year old episode!! Epic! The Secret machine without buffer after it sounds absolutely amazing but integrating it proved difficult. Making things work together is not easy so whats true in one contex might not work in the other. What a wonderful presentation and explanation! Thanks!

[@maniacalion6170]

I was just watching some of your older stuff, not that’s it’s bad, but wow you guys seem to have really hit your stride these days! Great work as always :)

[@RodClark]

This episode came at THE absolute perfect time for me. When I play my strat straight into my DSL20CR (clean channel), sounds great. As soon as I plug anything else in front of the amp, it seems to lose fidelity. So I've spent the entire week moving my Archer Icon in and out of different positions in the chain. And I've been contemplating "do I sandwich the board with a Mesa Boogie High-Wire - or just put a stand alone buffer at the head of the chain - or replace my tuner with the new TC Polytune that has a buffer built in?" My only fuzz is a Fulltone Catalyst, which is super stable from an impedance standpoint. So that can go after the buffer. Blimey, It's been quite a week between my ears ... Glad to know I'm not the only person on this earth who is completely ... nuts.

[@brianpatrick6102]

Uncanny. Everytime I have a question or issue with my rig, you guys post a video with the answer. It's like... magic. 👍

[@danpechacek3855]

Excellent video! I love a good deep dive on unexpected/less explored issues of a pedalboard build. Reminds me of when a friend of mine asked if I knew why the OBNE Visitor might cause a big volume jump (similar to the one here). After much troubleshooting, we found that while he was rearranging his board, one of the solderless patch cables had gone wonky - it was working, but with an impedance issue (parasitic capacitance or something?). So with everything off, he had signal loss, and with Visitor on, its buffer brought his signal back. Swapped the patch cable, suddenly his signal came back fully and the Visitor was roughly unity gain once more.

[@ghostofborsalino2752]

I absolutely can’t praise the Phil Robinson Phuzz high enough. It stopped my search for a fuzzface type in its tracks. Phil is also a wonderful fella too.

[@ollieneilson2815]

That strat in the intros get me every time 🤤

[@FuzzyDancingBear]

I can't stop quoting that intro clip. Everyone's gonna think I'm crazy. Awesome episode as usual.

[@eddcarrguitar6850]

After all of these years you two are still addressing useful stuff! Well done! This episode has really got me thinking - I definitely have an issue like this with my Seymour Duncan Tweak Fuzz, time to investigate! Also, a couple of my modulation pedals further down the chain seem to overload on the input to the point of clipping whilst still on a clean tone. This video has given me enough knowledge of other factors to start swapping things out. Good work lads!

[@emet79]

Video request: the complete EVH-pedal board 🤤

[@ryanspencerlauderdale687]

They kinda already did that at the old place, with some EVH sounding pedals.

[@emet79]

Ryan Spencer Lauderdale like my son says: do it again! Do it again! 😄

[@johnmundt7834]

Rabea did a sound like that nailed it pretty well

[@alexlewis8468]

Maybe about using a variac????

[@STRATMAN1969]

@@alexlewis8468 Yeas I second this. I am now considering this an official petition ,ha j/k r.i.p. EVH

[@MrApprobatur]

Haha I was one of those guys that went "LOVE that sound with the buffer after!" Cheers guys, thanks for a great episode!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Totally. If you mean Euna, there are people who love that sound (post-Cream Clapton fans in the most part! ) and those people who really, really don’t (Cream-era Clapton fans). Hahaha! It sounds like his Music Man amps to me and makes me wonder if we’re all hearing the same set of frequencies. I seem to have a particular sensitivity to that ‘brittle’ stuff. Sounds brittle to me anyway..... may well sound like butter to some other folks. Fascinating!

[@LoKi6922]

I had a couple of similar issues with my Bloomfield Drive and the effects loop! First one was fuzz related in the front end, but I wound up using the buffer in the Peterson Strobo Stomp HD to give me a nice consistent signal through my drive pedals. The Bloomfield Drive has an amazingly high end detailed sound and using the effects loop kills that immediately... I attached a JHS Little Black Buffer to the back of the amp on a 6" patch cable from the Send and another after the last pedal on my board and now everything sounds as it should! This kind of stuff is super informative, and I'm sure not exactly exciting to film, so my sincerest thanks to you gentlemen!

[@mrblablablabla]

Very interesting, insightful and informing. You chaps gave me something to do for the weekend. Cheers!

[@soundpropellerpatrick113]

"Capacitive Elements" The next TPS shirt? I'll take two! This is a great and informative episode!

[@JoePerkinsMusic]

The biggest buffering effect here is KZbin on Somerset's pathetic excuse for "broadband" :P

[@johnbuxton2529]

Spot on !!!

Genius, guys. Just proving that each of these beautiful little boxes have a life of their own, and that a board is a lovely live organism. Just awesome! 🤘🏻🖤

[@genesisfalling]

Interesting show guys. Ive got a Peterson tuner in buffer mode just after my Pedal Pawn Fuzz, then all my other gain stages which end up into a Ryra Klon then off to the various modulations. Everything sounds fantastic with this set up. Love the way the buffer in the Ryra Klon just makes everything sound better.

[@weschilton]

This is a FANTASTICALLY USEFUL episode gents! Well done. Really interesting hearing the differences.... Its not even just WHERE the buffer is, but what the pedals circuit does to color the signal too. I think the Echorec's buffer sounds terrible (no matter where it is in the signal chain), compared to the one in the Belle Epoch or the Klon. And the Belle Epoch definitely made the Secret machine sound best. I'm struggling a bit with my fuzzes as well because I have three buffered bypass pedals as well... the Polytune 3, the Cali76, and the Klon. But! I definitely prefer my compression after the gain stages, so putting that right after the fuzz is out. Right now its fuzz into Broadcast into Klon into a few other drives, then Cali76 then delays with reverb last. So far its pretty good but I'm curious if I could get it better by swapping the Klon and the Broadcast... it never ends! Where should you put your buffer? In your case, the Belle Epoch right after the Secret Machine sounds GREAT. Since you want a delay there as well, that would seem to be your answer.

[@miscellaneousstuffandnonse5348]

Just in case you didn't know, you can switch the Polytune 3 between buffered and true bypass (obviously without the always-on tuning when in true bypass).

[@johncooper16]

Great Show. Fascinating. Albert Collins used 100ft cable to take the 'ice-pick' edge off the bridge pickup of his Telecaster.

[@robertkrause85]

Thanks for continuing to provide an excellent resource for exploring every question about gear a guitarist might need answered and in a fun manner. Though I'm mostly here for the great playing and tones.

[@RobFlaxMusic]

Wow! That "shortest patch cable possible" segment hammers the point home, and impressively so. It's about better questions... thanks again, guys.

[@utopia_effects]

I personally believe that in most cases it is better to have the high end preserved and shape my eq to cut what I don't want in the right spot of the signal chain than not having the high end and then boosting and EQing to get back desired frequencies, the first option usually leads to less noise floor and preserves the dynamic range. That said, my favorite buffers are light gain overdrives that don't color the sound too much and have some EQ, like the Timmy or the prince of tone.

[@danmist]

Recently had to move my Hartman flanger to the beginning of my chain (don't have a switcher yet) when it started making whooshing noises when placed after certain pedals. Then I noticed a volume drop when it was on. Stuck a Boss pedal after it and that sorted that out thankfully.

[@imanalien2222]

Great episode and the exact issue I’m about to face having just purchased a Sarno Earth Drive to replace a TS following an Analogman Sunface. Also, AM has a very informative page on buffers that I’ve gained a lot of insight from. I guarantee what Mick likes is the tone equivalent of plugging a 10’ cable directly into the front of the amp... not the crispness we heard when using the tiny cable. Good stuff fellas!

[@simongjose]

I use my EP after my fuzz and drives always on to level out my volume jumps and warm the signal. Now I understand why it sounds so much better. Awesome Ep no pun intended 🤓🤘

[@stevieboy444]

The sort /long lead thing at 46ish mins was a real eye opener.

[@bigshotstupig]

This is why I could never go wireless.

[@DavidRamos-nz4bh]

I’ve learned a lot and now I’m completely confused! Once again it boils down to ears , time plus patience.

[@mattheweastel129]

I’ve avoided this episode as was sure it would be a dry subject, but boy was it enlightening! I am now sure I’ve got rid of pedals for sounding dull just because I didn’t have the right buffer set up. Dan was a proper Sensei on this one

[@craiger2399]

Awesome episode! I learned a ton. I agree with the Klon making things better. This is why I love the Ceriatone Centura: the always on buffer. My signal goes germanium fuzz, centura, and then qmx-6 with the rest of my chain. This drives the whole chain beautifully.

[@max.pedals8060]

I think using the Euna after the fuzz would “solve” the “problem”. Use the Euna with the delay in the loop, that way there’s always a buffer after the fuzz and no more volume/tone change. Of course that will change the sound of the fuzz but like you guys said, it’s all subjective to opinions. Awesome video!!

[@29Pedals]

Great suggestion!

[@mikeroberts817]

I was confused that they didn't try this (and that they did try the secret machine in the loop - seemed obvious that wouldn't work).

[@stevekirby7333]

But Mick didn't want the Euna buffer on the rest of the time. He needed an inverse functionality, buffer on only with the loop engaged, otherwise off. If the delay is only to pair with the fuzz, then putting them both in an unbuffered loop would be the solution.

[@mattybradbury]

I just bought a Belle Epoch Deluxe last night, am thinking now I'll use it end of chain always on. Thanks fellas!

[@ThatPedalShow]

It is a place where it lives in great happiness on many boards!

[@MrTimMifsud]

This has been the best show in teaching me more about buffers. As much as it tied my head in knots what I got out of it is that you have to experiment (a lesson you always espouse). The other takeaway is the value of having a couple of switchable and movable buffers in your loop switcher, provided they are high quality buffers. I myself am attempting to solve this issue and while I love GigRig stuff (I have the generator power supply and subsequent isolators and Timelord), the GigRig G2 is just too big for me, so I went with the Musicomlab EFX LE II which has an input buffer that can be turned off and on, and a second movable buffer that can be moved in the chain from preset to preset. Testing this out I now realise what my Zvex Fuzz Factory was missing. It’s brought that fuzz back to life. I would have liked to have seen you put the EUNA on as an always on buffer and then put the secret machine just before it. Anyway thank you! I know you said you wouldn’t ever use anything but GigRig, but it might just be worth quietly checking out a Musicomlab EFX LE II. I bought it from Pedal Empire because I know they support you, so in a way I hope some of that $769 Aussie dollars gets to you via them. The MusicomLab EFX LE II also has a built in version of the humdinger transformer isolated out, for wet dry, four mono loops plus an extra mono loop for volume that can be an extra normal loop, and then the next loop is mono in and stereo out and then the last loop is full stereo loop after that. Full midi capability, tap tempo, midi clock, and movable loops. It also has two mono parallel mixers in there for blending effects in parallel. It’s admittedly not as simple to program as G2, but once you understand what the page button does, it is pretty self explanatory. And it’s much smaller and a completely analog switching matrix. It also has two outputs that send momentary or latching signals to change amp channels or switch on or off other channels on certain pedals. I think it would solve your problem Mick as you could have the buffer come on after the fuzz, while switching off the input buffer, bypass any other pedals which are buffered bypass, and thus control where you want your buffer to be on a preset by preset basis. You could even do it so that you only need one delay pedal, and if it can be midi controlled, then it could have the tempo bpm sent on a preset by preset basis, and you could switch the order you wanted it also preset by preset. I don’t work for Musicomlab, but yeah worth a look. Anyway, thanks for this show and all your shows. I’m a huge fan. I frequently learn things from this show I wish I had known 20 years ago. Plus you two are hilarious and make me smile so thank you.

[@MrTimMifsud]

Gah! Haha, my comment above looks so silly now that GigRig G3 and G3 Atom have been announced only a week after I put this comment up, meaning I had no idea G3 was on the way and am now second guessing my purchase of the Musicomlab switcher. The G3 atom does look cool. Still, it’s worth keeping the comment here as I still think this episode is so helpful.

[@TheJamesTestani]

The most interesting/informative video I've seen on this channel. Very well done!

[@DavidRavenMoon]

What would work here is a “buffer” type intermediary circuit with a lower z input and low z output. So it would load the fuzz as if it were seeing the cables, but drive the next stages easily. It would be switched off with the fuzz.

[@sordel5866]

“Someone summon my Master of Terriers because we're going down a rabbit hole today.”

[@jwhouwers]

Each time you made me guess the right answer to the questions, before answering them yourself. That’s perfect teaching!

[@paulwilliams6959]

Most of the time very informative guys!!! bunch of odd pedals, that i will never use... 60 minutes of tinkering and isolating issues... thats what I got from this!

[@justinguitarcia]

"Chalk & Day, Night & Cheese" - Mick's Solo release

[@andreasdavour9973]

That word 'impedance' drives me nuts, as I get no intuitive impression of it, ever. It's like 'loading' and 'driving' like the pickups are supposed to be doing. I had some hope when Mick started talking about water hoses. But, then I was lost again when a small trickle from the hose apparently 'drove' the pedals down the chain like crazy, and the analogy made me flounder again. That being said, while I despair at ever gasping the terms, the testing things in order videos like these at least gives a doofus like me examples to fall back to when ordering pedals myself. Quite helpful indeed. Cheers.

[@ThatPedalShow]

I’m with you Andreas! Mick here. Hated science at school, hate it now. I’m sure it’s not that hard - hell, scientists do it! - but I just can’t be arsed to try and understand it. That’s the middle man, and quite frankly, he can do one. Etc. Grumble

[@juanfichtl2011]

Hi Andreas! It's kind of confusing at first but it's just a measure of how much a circuit resists (impedes!) current flowing through it. Really it's resistance plus phase shift. In other words, it accounts for how much the signal is delayed when it goes through a circuit. Purely resistive stuff has no delay while capacitors and inductors do have it. As for the difference in impedances between stuff, it might help to picture a high impedance (not very conductive) input as a very thick and heavy rope and a low impedance output (highly conductive) as a very light and thin rope. Tie them together and try to wiggle the heavy rope by wiggling the light rope and vice versa. That's impedances for you!

[@andreasdavour9973]

@@juanfichtl2011 thanks for trying to make it approachable. Really appreciate the attempt. We'll see if it sinks in, but it do sound graspable presented like that. What do you say Mick, eh?

[@stratodan27]

Great video. Very informative! I’ve only recently discovered that putting a buffer at the beginning of my board and one at the end of my board is the secret sauce. My tc electronic polytune 3 tuner has a bonafide buffer in it which I switch on and that pedal is first on my pedal board just after my wah wah that sits on the floor. Then I mounted a JHS little black buffer underneath my board and that’s last in my chain which drives the 15 foot cable to my amp. I have a mixture of true bypass and buffered pedals on my board. And this works incredibly well for me. Sounds like my guitar is plugged into a short cable plugged directly into my amp. After 40+ years of playing. I’m still learning something new. A buffer at the beginning of the board and one at the end of the board just works!!! Love this channel,😊

[@ThatPedalShow]

Certainly evens things out, but doesn’t work for me and Dan. Too much buffer tone!

[@AdamBuntain]

I shamefully haven't seen an episode in quite some time, covid turned my life into nothing but fly fishing for awhile (job shut down, gigs cancelled, no rehearsals)....and I'm only commenting because this is the first time that I have seen Mick's foray into facial hair. Still as entertaining and as informative as ever and thumbs up to the stylish whisker do. 👍👍

[@nathansturgess92]

I like the “I shall test that” comment. Surely that’s every bloke’s reaction to anything that says “you can’t break this’

[@CharcoaI]

Careful Dan, if Mick has that knife on hand - you might need to keep a spoon close by! You never know when Mick might wanna play a game of knifey spoony ;)

[@willcraig6421]

“I see you’ve played knifey/spoony before.....”

[@jasonbinnick3893]

Great episode!! FWIW, I've had a EUNA for a little while and I'm a convert. Really clears up the sound of both my guitar and bass rigs and the frequency switches are really nice and musical. (I have a Fuzz Face in EUNA's effects loop with a Klon style buffer after it and it does the trick for me...) Keep up the good work!

[@matabercrombie3816]

Love it when you get into nitty-gritty technical stuff. Classic TPS! Really interesting stuff here.

[@Atttuner]

What on earth is confusing about deciding if u like signal loss? Lucky I’m here for the playing and to escape my family responsibilities

[@gcvrsa]

That Euna seems pretty awesome. Talk about hi-fi! Turning that on made it sound like you plugged right into the desk. Definitely going to look that one up.

[@29Pedals]

Happy to chat with you about it!

[@CzZank]

one of the best pedal shows and also one of the most mind-boggling.

[@97mico]

that's an example of a show I thought wouldn't be interesting (at least for me)...and here I am questioning how my board sound and spending this Sunday morning swapping pedals in and out of the chain. Thank guys for the headache and for giving me another rabbit hole to dive in

[@donaldryder5534]

I counted 24 utterances of "Impedance" and no Impy Dance? Ah, a lost opportunity!

[@jonathanbarton271]

Thank you Dan and Mick!! I’ve been wondering about this. Is the radial SGI box considered a buffer? What does it do to signal when running amps 50ft away offstage?

[@TheDeugsy]

Great demonstration packed with laughs and many questioning ;op love you guys !

[@philrob110]

Super vid!! And thanks for demonstrating my Silicon Phuzz so well..!

[@indiecrust]

I just want to hear and see more of that goldtop. Stunning.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Me too. Totally in love.

[@kcapkcans]

I'm gonna make a pedal called the "Belly Pock Deluxe"

[@guitfidle]

Thanks guys, yeah that got technical, but that was quite educational and helpful. I have played around with buffering issues like this, and this is why I have a Boss tuner at the start of my chain unless I'm using vintage style fuzz or wah. Those definitely go directly after the guitar.

[@wescarroll5811]

Great episode. Same issue with Dandrive Austin pride first. Tumnus Deluxe with buffer on (Klon clone) 3 pedals down has been my answer and it's great to see this analyzed!

[@neilgrimes]

Because I regularly do pedalboard setups and also spent a long time perfecting my own buffer design, I often get asked about buffers and how/where/when to use. So, if you care, here's my input on how to GENERALLY get the most consistent and trouble free results... - Choose an amp and it's settings by plugging straight into it with the length of cable (or wireless system) you'll use from your guitar to your pedalboard input. That should dictate the amount of cable capacitance you'll have between instrument and amplifier. - Then choose a buffer you like the sound of (because not all buffers are created equal and sound and feel the same), testing it alone between your chosen cables to and from the pedalboard (output cable will be driven by buffer, so shouldn't add any capacitance). Tweak the amp EQ if needed/desired to suit, until you're happy with your general amp tone. - Place this buffer as early in your signal chain as possible (so straight after vintage style fuzz pedals). This will drive your signal through all the following true bypass pedals (when switched off) and patch cables without any loss of signal strength and clarity. - But be aware that as soon as a pedal is turned on, or if it has a buffered bypass, that it then dictates the output impedance from that point. It may therefore be a good idea to put another buffer at the end of your pedalboard (or possibly in another strategic place later in your signal chain) to insure you have consistent output impedance for driving the long cable running to your amp. - But also completely ignore all the above if whatever you're doing works well for you and makes you happy!!! Hope that was helpful?! Have a good weekend, Neil

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thanks Neil! My problem is that I really don’t like the sound of extra buffers in my chain. The Klon one is nice after my other drives but not before them. The Belle Epoch one is tolerable and pretty nice in some instances. It’s an interesting old bollock!

[@neilgrimes]

@@ThatPedalShow Sounds like you like the sound of the extra cable length capacitance in the first lump of your board? A good buffer should not change your tone at that point, only overcome the capacitance of the following cables. So maybe you just need to use a massive old curly coily cable into your board?! 🥴

[@neilgrimes]

Maybe even a long cable (or something something to emulate that) after your fuzz to get desired tone, then into a buffer to keep things consistent from there on. ???????

[@marslightsnoise]

NRG EFFECTS now you’re talking... maybe in G2, a ten or twenty foot cable from the G2’s send to the Immortal Echo? That way the long cable is only used when the echo is

[@halfbakedschemes]

Mick - you should have a go with the fender ready set buffer. It has a switch that changes the input impedance (I think) and a knob to control the high end presence of the buffer. May really work for you.

[@sharplespaul]

I’m so deep with questions ...I learn so much from you guys!!!!

[@andreweasombentley4703]

This is one of the most important and informative shows you have done

[@RSCphoto-Savannah]

I was chatting with the guys at Cornerstone after I got my Gladio and suggested that more pedals should come equipped with switchable buffers just so that issues like this are easier to solve. I have a small board with a buffer in my modded VPJr after between drives and mods which keeps my hose flowing smoothly. But folks with more complicated boards might want buffering before and after. What are your thoughts on having switchable buffers?

[@Sperzel]

YES please, and this goes especially for drive pedals.

[@awittypseudonym2520]

Greetings from France, So I recently got a (vintageish) lawsuit MIJ strat and MIJ Les Paul Custom to go alongside my 1960's Eko made jag style thing (which I use alternate tunings), and all of a sudden your shows make a lot (lot) more sense. They were great and entertaining, but now it clicks in a way that didn't beforehand (stuff like like the volume thing with a strat and a fuzz). Also, any solution for microphonic pickups? My Eko sounds amazing but doesn't like volume, and the pickups are weirdly sized, so I can't just swap them out. Anybody have any tips?

[@markferguson3745]

Wax pot them; it's not terribly difficult.

[@robertbrown2728]

I have a Nashville Tele with a microphonic neck pickup. I stuffed a piece of rolled up sticky tape under the cover. It's still a bit microphonic but the sound is so good that I wouldn't consider doing anything else to it.

[@RiffHarvester]

Great video to watch on my birthday!! I love you guys and your show! It's ALWAYS entertaining and you guys have great chemistry and senses of humor! I finally picked up a D&M Drive, although I wish it were the new limited edition one.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thank you Douglas! Much obliged - enjoy the D&M Drive!

[@kyleharcus]

Wow! I need to sit down, have a beer and digest this information!! 🍻🤣 very interesting show guys. Thanks!

[@goran2608]

The new Laney (Black Country Customs) pedal line up has a great buffer, first one that didn't make me sell a pedal because of it..

[@tonisiret5557]

Loved the opening sounds, will watch this episode multiple times to ensure absorption. Ever thought of putting signal chain's on TPS merch / clothes? It may have to be XXXXL! Gr8 show all 👍

[@Yupppi]

This was a great episode. So many variables that you might not think because you never put your pedals in that order. Yet it boils down to "tweak the pedals so that you like them in the order you use them". Although it's unfortunate how the fuzz sounds better non-buffered, muffled.

[@RubyRoks]

This is INCREDIBLY fascinating, and i wish i hadn't spent all my time in electronics class playing video games so i could be even more fascinated.

[@paulmatulevich3623]

I'm surprised the subject of independent buffer units like the little JHS one didn't come up, but for obvious reasons (*cough cough, g2, cough*) I can see why you wouldn't have them lying around. On a separate note, I can't recall if it was recently but I recall Mic saying he might want an SG. I haven't had my eye on the guitar market for a tick but I'd still think you should be able to get a '61 reissue for a decent price. They were kind of revolving door in the shops. I think people picked them up because they were real pretty but: A) I don't think they were used to the vintage spec (which Imagine you would prefer) and B) came off the factory floor with a garbage setup. Plus I'm encountering a level imbalance with a weaker signal in the bridge pickup but I'm thinking that's either the height or maybe some fault that's creeped up electronically because it was out of my circulation a while and I don't recall that being an issue before. Easy fix in any event. Bit of this or that. I think they're great value for money

[@c.p.1589]

Mick had a 61 RI and it wouldn't stay in tune. Just not enough good mahogany around for those small neck joints in my op.

[@paulmatulevich3623]

@@c.p.1589 Maybe it's a climate thing? Though I wouldn't imagine conditions there being drastically different from central Pennsylvania. Once mine was setup I didn't really have any problems. I just had to be sure to keep my nut lubed because using 11's it would start to bind which is a problem I'm used to with that break angle of theirs. That gauge is just on the edge of needing to have the nut redressed. (Which come to think of it I think Mic uses 11's too I think) Or maybe I just got a Pearl amongst swine, their QC has been a bit sporadic around that time.

[@c.p.1589]

@@paulmatulevich3623 I've had a bunch of SGs From 62 to 74 and Some of them are just unstable rubber necks. There just isn't a lot of gluing area. If the neck is flat sawn or has a lot of run out in the grain it doesn't help. The mid 60s necks can be pencil thin too with a big weighty headstock. Having said that, I have a 69 now with a log of a neck. It's like an iron bar and refuses to go out of tune. My 62 was the same. The modern ones can vary a lot. The newer growth mahogany can be quite porous but there are definitely gems amongst them.

[@ImNotOld_ImVintage]

The term for impedance in regards to capacitance is "capacitive reactance". While I get you love the vintage circuit, it's clear that as finicky as it is to the tiny changes in capacitive reactance, that fuzz doesn't play well with even a slightly complex signal chain. If you have to have that circuit, you're going to have to overcome it's limitations.

[@sharplespaul]

Ohms law!

[@8calm8]

@@sharplespaul murphy`s law ;)

[@sharplespaul]

@@8calm8 it just to mathematical...for my brain..full of beer hops and bong resign....

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@sharplespaul Anyone can do math.

[@8calm8]

@@sharplespaul Do you have access to my webcam? lol

[@ryanhillclimber]

Wow, so helpful! I just got an analogman sun face and noticed it just died with any other pedal in the chain. I’ll be sure to try some buffered pedals in there to bring the volume and treble back when using it on a board. Such good work as always boys!!

[@Attilargh]

I've never wondered how a guitar would sound if you replaced the lead with the tiniest patch cable, but now I know. Thanks!

[@franx82]

I would like to try using a long cable between fuzz and buffer. My favourite fuzz tone from the video was the one without buffers.

[@elementgypsy]

Good idea.. Fuzzes can cause issues.

[@juantambussi4415]

Howard Gee did a good job with those delays

[@RambleTone]

Another perfect timing show! I was just putting together a small pedalboard and overthinking this same issue. lol And as you said, I had to get my hands dirty and trial and error listen.

[@dougwirtanen200]

This was incredibly helpful and going in Depth like this should be done more.

[@chrisprescottguitar]

Laughed out loud within 5 seconds of this video starting. Can Dan do some acting at the start of every video?

[@TheElrondo]

Remember the "TC Tore" Episode: He said switch the first and the last TC pedal from Bypass to Buffer in your chain...

[@markferguson3745]

Not sure those are the best buffers you're going to find.Not a fan, personally.

[@TheElrondo]

@@markferguson3745 The point is not using a TC pedal, the point is have a buffer at the beginning and the end of your pedal chain.

[@markferguson3745]

@@TheElrondo I got that, except I wanted to acknowledge that all buffers aren't the same. Have you ever tried putting the first buffer after the Drive section? Recommended.

[@mattroberts4201]

Interesting and as you said different for every rig out there. Obviously bypass looper/switcher would change things too. I guess in this example a little stand alone buffer right after fuzz is probably the go if you don’t use a pedal with buffered bypass like the Belle. Interesting to see how it changes your clean sound, you’d likely have to dial your amp tone in differently, and then this may cause you to also change tone controls on some pedals. I use MI Effects BoostnBuff v3 first in my chain of six true bypass pedals (with additional H9 and Flashback in amp effects loop 4 cable style) and use that switchable boost into my drives for extra push, plus Mesa Lone Star as you know has switchable Solo master vol for pure lift in volume. That short cable guitar-direct-into-amp comparison to your full pedal chain all turned off is illuminating for everyone to try. Input/output buffered junction boxes with a loop for all your effects (Mesa Highwire/Stowaway and Goodwood Audio et al) look interesting too, as do Warwick Rockboard systems.

[@davidhenson7445]

Polytune 3 right after the Fuzz Factory with the built in Bonafide Buffer takes care of all of this before the amp. Hall of Fame with its buffer enabled in the loop takes care of the rest. Good episode. I personally want to start with the super bright and crystal clean sound before modification, but everyone's got their thing. Highs are easy to remove though, almost impossible to get back in.