the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith: With Joel Webbon

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[@rebeccadixon7603]

I had never heard the Law described so wonderfully! A mirror, a shield and a compass! So simple yet profound!! I'm guessing I've grown up in dispensational churches as I've never heard such a description! Thank you precious men for discussing so beautifully these things!!

[@yourstruly9448]

I loved this interview!! Thanks!! Please do more with Joel.

[@johngarnto9016]

Thx Joel !

[@Watchdog123go]

As an older man of faith, it is so refreshing to hear young men discussing those that have come before us. Thank you

[@amadeusasimov1364]

"Shofar shogoood" lol, that should be a t-shirt!

[@brendansorel6433]

I need a part 2 of this!

[@SpotterVideo]

The SBC has divided itself into two different factions promoting two different man-made doctrines. The confessions of Reformed Covenant Theology do not contain the term "New Covenant", even though the term is found in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Many of those promoting modern Dispensational Theology claim the New Covenant is not in effect yet, because it is for "Israel". Read the book "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism" by Ken Wilson, to see the origin of that doctrine. Watch the KZbin video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology" to see the original source of that doctrine in black and white. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) Watch the KZbin video “The New Covenant” by Bob George.

[@nosteen.4988]

Joel is solid. Praise God. Nice change.

[@holisticcoach.monique]

What a gift that young man has. Praise our Lord!!

[@thewholeandholylife231]

This is sooo good.

[@DaleBoyce2012]

What a great show! This was accessible and clear.

[@mariohortaphd]

Excellent show gentlemen, I loved this episode!!!

[@philipdeklerk325]

Awesome discussion thank you very much. Glory to our Lord and Saviour.

[@allmountain5334]

Joel is fire. great content.

[@rachelguy8824]

Wow I know I’m like over a year late to this but happy I finally got to see it all I can say is wow beautiful

[@stevenbakos]

I almost attended “Brides For The Nations” in 94 lol God shut that door 😉 Love and fully appreciate Joel’s dry humor!

[@Beefcake1982]

I love it! I’m a reformed Baptist and didn’t know it.

[@IamGreatsword]

I want true and blessed assurance, sobbing!

[@geraldreineke1348]

thank you joel webbon gerald reineke [south africa ]

[@haileylindberg4365]

You gonna be on cultish! That in my top five favorites! I'm excited for you.

[@fogandwhirlwind]

Subscribed

[@danielwarton5343]

I respect the 1689 and am soteriologically a Calvinist. Joel said that he gave up trying to figure it all out and went with the men who formed the confession. How does this line up with having to give an account before the Lord for what we did and how we treated His word of you defer to others? An elder in my church is 1689 and he uses it as a cover, as sadly he knows very little theology, even to the point of not knowing the difference between the millennial reign of Christ and the rapture of the church. My fear is that others will just hold to the 1689 without ever digging deep in to God’s word for themselves. Every teacher I listen to I question everything they say in line with scripture, why not do this for the larger confessions ?

[@danielvelez1294]

Its interesting that there is absolutely no biblical principle for a “Sunday Sabbath” yet that is believed by many that claim to hold to a regulatory principle of worship. Great exposition, I’m truly blessed by this channel, blessings!

[@ctucker7002]

Hi are you SDA?

[@danielvelez1294]

@@ctucker7002 nope.

[@ctucker7002]

@@danielvelez1294 ty

[@sergieyes]

I am a Mere Christian like Lewis and Tolkiien. I also have major hurdles, epilepsy and dental disease. Please pray for Robb. May God bless my friends.

[@brianpeacock4147]

Jesus said everything I did you can do and more, so in Jesus name I speak healing over you, like Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead and cast out demons, we can do these things.

[@4hiscause238]

"Calvinism is the gateway drug" No truer statement than this! Much truer than this man understands, im afraid. If "religion is the opiate of the masses", then Calvinism is the needle, jammed in the arm, providing the numbing, euphoric, calming affect of a conscience otherwise troubled by sin.

[@johnpeavey6557]

What is your church and theology

[@4hiscause238]

@@johnpeavey6557 well John , that second one is a very big question my friend and I dont feel I could answer it thouroughly enough in a comment section. The first one, however, is easier. I dont attend a physical church but we do have online church on a regular basis. I do not consider myself non- denominational, I actually consider myself anti- denominational.

[@johnpeavey6557]

@@4hiscause238 hebrews 10:25 ck it out

[@memoandailia1250]

Most of this idea comes from a certain theology that expresses the thinking of many as they are doing here. They are taking the 1689 as a pillar to their belief. Where the problem lies is that it becomes to much as a biblical study and searching of thruth without the surrender completely to Christ in daily reading, praying, fasting and it would also include study. The best way to interpret the Bible is letting Bible (scripture) interpret itself. The word is like a puzzle and only is revealed (iluminating) by the Spirit to those who surrender and become a vessell to bring forth the thruth.

[@oztheberean]

Well said.

[@elmerfudd2402]

Great discussion. Still not fully understanding the "Regulative Principle" of worship. How far does that reach, for instance in the adoption of modern technology (amplified voice, lighting, amplified music, etc.)?

[@RyGuy8989]

I’m studying at Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary which is a 1689 school started and lead by Dr. Sam Waldron. I love the 1689 but I’m not cessationist, there’s no scriptural backing for that position.

[@Jawond34]

The 1689 confession isn't cessationist it doesn't even address it

[@deion312]

Great historical biblical content!

[@johntobey1558]

Read Roger Nicole: taught at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary for 25 years and then was an endowed Chair, at RTS. He was a Sunday School teacher and a dominant Theologian from Switzerlamd. Read also Meredith Klein.

[@pamstout7383]

So how does the Shema fit into all this?? I have been in several types of denominations but have ended up in a Messianic group where I am quite happy to follow the scripture lessons. Still don't see a plainly stated departure from the Saturday Sabbath even though I am grafted in. Thanks for your willing work to educate.

[@clsmithent]

I could listen to this type of teaching for a long time ❣

[@js5860]

Agree w you Joel Good to have these conversations I tend to side w MacArthur leaky dispensationalism but am thinking more along the lines of covenant theology but am reformed baptist Am at a large sbc church - no heresy, but often feel that my Presbyterian brothers have the regulative principles right! And sbc is definitely caught up in pragmatism and numbers.

[@lark8356]

His focus on 1689 is an interesting contrast with Pastor Jerome Gay admonishing us to stop acting as if church history began in Wittenberg:

[@bencooper8668]

John Durham at Highland Baptist is a wonderful teacher of the word. -Baylor grad

[@isaacparks1105]

I had no idea Joel went to CFNI. I had a similar experience there and I'm also tied to the 1689.

[@roguedobie]

Ditto, I think we were there at the same time isaac

[@LLPOF]

I have grown to despise so many things about reformed theology. I first became aware of it maybe 10 years ago or so. The more I studied it and observed many of its proponet's proclivities the worse it became. It produces a feeling in me much the same as the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[@Eloign]

Same. Their view drove me away from the Lord before I was saved. Now I can see it was a lie and Jesus is nothing like Calvin or his disciples.

[@LLPOF]

@@Eloign Awesome to hear you got away from it and embraced truth. There are good people who are Calvinist, but the doctrine is just awful. Thanks for making my day more cheerful. :-)

[@LLPOF]

@Dustin Neely You are probably right. Years ago I read an excellent book titled "The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust Modern Translations?" by James White. It really is an exceptional book and I highly recommend it, regardless of what your views on the subject are. Anyway, I looked him up on youtube and was pretty happy that I was going to be able to watch him. I started chronologically and most were pretty good. However, I noticed changes in him the older he got. He became more arrogant and hardened. It finally got to the point that I could not watch him anymore and I blocked him from my youtube suggestions. This prompted me to look into Calvinism. Sadly, White's attitude seemed to be par for the course for Calvinist. I was really taken aback by the things I learned and how wide spread it had become. The final straw ( regarding Calvinism ) was a video in which a panel of men (I think it was the Southern Baptist Convention) were laughing and joking about Calvin's part in the execution of Servetus. I can't find the link for that but I'll look some more in case anyone is interested in seeing it. I don't want to be that "type of Christian". If someone is going to be like that, I would rather they were an atheist.

[@tommarshall3365]

Interesting to hear your testimonies, thank you for sharing. In fact, my experience is exactly the opposite. Reformed Christianity has been like a rock in my life, and actually saved me from slipping away from Christ on many occasions.

[@LLPOF]

@@tommarshall3365 Hi Tom. I have encountered a few testimonies like yours and it always, always, always makes me feel bad. Not in anything you have done or said, but in that I must be missing something very important. I don't want to be wrong about something so important as this and I believe every single word of your post. I have plans for writing a book on this subject, not because I want to sell it or give it away, but to cause me to investigate every single facet of this subject in detail FOR MY OWN UNDERSTANDING. I have to understand how I can come to the conclusions I set forth above and how to reconcile them with testimonies such as yours.

[@fogandwhirlwind]

I kid you not, there was a Daily Wire ad before this video started and Matt Walsh was speaking and for a second I thought this video had begun and it was Joel.

[@fogandwhirlwind]

To be clear, Joel Webbon has the superior theology. And beard.

[@ForwardTalk]

I recommend listening to the Weatherly-Pendergass debate on instrumental music in worship.

[@seanspencer7781]

I would of liked this one except Mr. Joel here doesn't have enough beard oil. What kind of calvinist is this guy? Tell him to get in touch with Jeff Durbin, the grand master of beard oil.

[@deion312]

YEEESS!

[@ryandawson2877]

I like this guy and he really knows his stuff. I don’t get how you experience the spirit of God in tangible ways and then become one who believes that the gifts have ceased. I know people do it, but I don’t get it. It would be interesting to hear his journey in this area. We can all pray that he comes back around. LOL

[@bencooper8668]

Sacraments (Baptism and Eucharist). I'm no longer a cessationist but I can absolutely say its possible. I would encourage you to read Calvin's chapter on sacraments from Institutes. It truly is a beautiful explanation of how the sacraments can be real and not REAL, and the function that the sacraments have in our own hearts. I may have a PDF if you are interested. To be clear, this is the only chapter of Institutes I have read haha

[@ryandawson2877]

@@bencooper8668 when it comes to communion, I am probably somewhere between memorial and real presents/spiritual presence. I was referring to the gifts of the spirit.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@bencooper8668 Brother Ben, I love your reply. Calvin at his best was equivocal. He gets blamed for being overly dogmatic. Comprehensive, yes, expansive and narrow at the same time, yes. That's Jean Calvin.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@ryandawson2877 Brother Ryan, good point, and good job to RR who are taking this subject by the "horns of the altar." I think Cessationism is best understood in the light of "Sola Scriptura." If the written and compiled, canonical New Testament is the final authority, no adding or taking away, if it is the perfect will of the God, and the final act of the Holy Spirit in terms of revelation, then you can make some reasonable (reasonable, not necessarily true) assumptions. It follows quite logically that the miracles which we hear about, and don't see, were done away with. This liberates us from the problem of our lack of faith, and allows us to cling to the Scripture as drowning sailors to a lifeboat. But, Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine, as are the other Solas, as "sola" is Latin for "only" or "alone," and nothing in the New Testament is extractable from everything else to be placed in a category called "alone." Certainly not Jesus Christ, who is not alone, but one with the Father, and not physically present any longer on Earth, but ascended and replaced by the Holy Spirit who is now present in the Church corporately and the believer individually. This is the true "replacement*"--The coming of "promise of the Father," the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, who inaugurates the Church age. There's a lot to say on this subject, even without getting into the gifts, technically 'the manifestations' of the ONE gift, that of the Holy Spirit. *Lest someone accuse me of anti-trinitarian, anti-scriptural language, allow me to explain. The "expedient" thing was for Jesus "to go away." He sends, actually the Father sends in the name of the Son, the Holy Spirit, "another comforter" who guides us "into all truth." There is a physical re-placing of things in the heavenly realm as well as the earthly realm. These things are profound mysteries, as the Apostle say, "hidden from ages past, which is Christ in you, the hope of Glory."

[@sharamadsen3080]

I used to experience (what I thought was God) in a tangible way. However, it did not lead to me repenting of sin, dying to self and conforming to the likeness of Christ. It merely resulted in me becoming addicted to an emotional, experiential ‘high’. I now suspect that my experiences were demonic. NOW, I know the Holy Spirit has been at work because of the fruit AFTER. I have a new nature, new desires. I WANT to read my Bible! I WANT to love the unlovable. I WANT to serve others. THAT is the biggest ‘miracle’ of all. God still heals (according to HIS will)…but -theologically speaking- this is an answer to prayer and not a ‘miracle’. Theologically speaking, scripture tells us that the miracles/signs/wonders done during the OT and through to the apostolic era were for authenticating the messenger and laying the foundation of the church. This has now been laid (we see as we read through the epistles, these sign gifts rendered to past tense). Hebrews 1:1-2. We now have our complete biblical canon. The Holy Spirit still works powerfully on our hearts and God still speaks through His word (and can use others to convict us of these truths!)

[@Nottoday454]

Minute 56ish. How do we know Adam had the first Ten Commandments. Wasn’t his only commandment at that point to not eat of the tree?

[@SpotterVideo]

These people are ignoring the fact that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13. They are also ignoring the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. In Galatians 3:16-19 Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made. In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage". Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made doctrines fall apart.

[@scottcarter1689]

@@SpotterVideo To clarify a little bit more (for other people more so than in direct amendment to you) about the emphasis that is placed on those other covenantal aspects... The value placed on those aspects is to prevent antinomianism because-as contingent beings-man has increasing trajectory. And this antinomian aspect gives the wrong impression- such as the abuse and eviscerated gospel of much of the contemporary Church. Therefore, it is crucial to make these covenantal distinctions rather than just eliminate them as you said. As far as imposed criteria of the Christian Life, your technically right but the covenantal aspects are what's pleasing to God and that's what's lacking in modern Christianity. "Pleasing to God" is now interchangeable with "legalism"... because time and again... this is the first thing one hears, and it is the self-evident demonstration of man's trajectory in the need and purpose of covenant understanding. The very fact that most people don't understand or know of the details in the context, shows the dangerously ambiguous qualification of (especially contemporary) "belief". So though what you said was correct, theological understanding is crucial in the entailments that suffer without. In the end, it is the expression of reprobation (which even despite debate about the nature of such a state... the entailment's mentioned above are their own fulfillment of reprobation- that was marked out from the beginning). These things are what make the distinctions and quality of "saving faith" so crucial in differentiating from "belief" which is now the lowest common denominator of mental assent. ✝️

[@roguedobie]

Haha, I went to cfni too, now I'm reformed, maybe I need to talk with Joel 😉

[@lark8356]

Biblicism: adherence to the letter of the Bible I am a biblicist.

[@CG2589]

I highly recommend following Joel's Right Response ministry it is very solid. And this is coming from someone who disagrees with a lot of his theology. Good ministry to follow if you want to learn about the Bible and read some good quotes from theologians.

[@RightResponseMinistries]

I appreciate your support and encouragement. Thanks!

[@jordanraymathews7841]

It seems to me the regulative principal is a little too eerily similar to the Pharisee’s view on the sabbath. The idea about not using instruments in particular is adding to the word of God based off a man made principal. It just seems logical that if God commands us to sing in the New Testament, the Old Testament used instruments, and the psalms several times sing about praising God with instruments, that God enjoys all aspects of music. I also disagree that instruments are only for Israel, I think that’s reading in your theology to the scriptures

[@dakotalisa3893]

"Based on" not "Based off" Me

[@jordanraymathews7841]

@@dakotalisa3893 oh lol thank you, grammar is not my forte

[@dakotalisa3893]

@@jordanraymathews7841 😊 It's just I see it so often. Thanks for the thanks.

[@jordanraymathews7841]

@@dakotalisa3893 I definitely understand, I’m a history teacher, so I actually appreciate correction lol

[@dakotalisa3893]

@@jordanraymathews7841 God bless you. Uh oh. It's principle not principal. I can't help myself. I'm on a roll.

[@sharamadsen3080]

Great conversation, gentlemen! I think that theological/denominational differences can be traced back to hermeneutics. What ‘goggles’ do you put on when you read scripture? We have to be careful with relying on tradition, of course, unless we are certain that the foundation of the tradition is built on solid biblically-derived hermeneutics. Sadly, today, many heavy-weights in theology change their ‘goggles’ depending on what pop Christian culture wants to hear. Let us desire to seek to view scripture only how God’s word tells us to. These various confessions are great. You have to step back and understand the underlying hermeneutic and ‘helicopter’ view of each of these documents before diving into the details. Once you find a solid doctrinal confession (which I believe the London Baptist Confession is), you save so much time and energy having to revisit the same doctrine over and over and wrestling with basic doctrine and can instead focus on serving others. It is important to still wrestle with foundational doctrines on our own, but I find that this confession ties up the lose ends nicely and is a wonderful reference.

[@FrankluzilliamsWilliams]

Iust wondering how men of God usured authority to suggest that God has been silent since 1689?

[@andrewcollop5138]

Which theological view is Patristic, Protestant and Pentecostal? Does this exist?

[@unit2394]

Is there a particular edition of the 1689 that is put out that Pastor Joel would recommend for someone to pick up if they want to read it?

[@YoungGenevanZoomer]

I’d say just look up 1689 LBCF on google. Read it and Keaches Catechism. 😊

[@davidenglish583]

I love your setup, but is there a way to fix your mic clipping?

[@richardtowne6771]

Quite wrong about the so-called "Regulative Principle," as if old hymns and pipe organs are prescribed in the Bible, and Psalm 150 is removed. And as if Grace Community, for example, is not its own form of entertainment, just a different style under the same lights and sound system.

[@kentyoung5282]

As someone who is unapologetically a biblicist, it was disappointing for me to hear you all to say, "Let's define our terms," and then go on to use the phrase, "guy in his basement" in your definition of biblicism, and allow your guest to say, unchallenged, that to a biblicist, "church tradition is a joke."

[@lesliejamieson6781]

Agree. And that biblicists are heretics. So wrong.

[@TheNathanMac]

Josh is working on me 🤣😂 but I love the 1689 although, I never really came to the cessationist position from it. Joel, come back to the ghostiness (just don’t be weird with it)

[@ryandawson2877]

If this guy is like Doug Wilson, he is a horrible secessionist! LOL

[@duncescotus2342]

It love it--because Wilson is both a Cessationist AND a "Secessionist," or at least an apologist for the Confederacy! Well said, whether intentional or not.

[@berglen100]

Classic theology has you waiting and think its the final day, The first Adam is seen as human, your second Adam isn't seen nor understood its in you not outside to wake you up like your a son of God. Inside you not out side looking when it's already in you, wake up! Paul was Saul until he woke in him! Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

[@hanzschaggi4254]

Sunday is not the Lord's Day. The Day of the Lord is.

[@dermont5]

New levels new devils 😂 😂😂

[@zippo563]

Calvinism is like the horse and buggy today.

[@zeldavanzell2799]

All this jabbering and they cant take a minute to explain WHAT CESSATIONISM IS and WHAT THEY MEAN by continuation etc, they mention thise terms 30 times and chat about nothing and cant take just a second to define a term

[@cheekjulie]

Cessationism= the gifts of the Spirit have ceased (prophecy, healing, speaking in tongues etc. Continuationism= the gifts of the Spirit continue

[@lucasmotarealty]

Just google it. Chill 😂

[@nicholassaastano5558]

Whatever confession or creed you subscribe to is really about your maturity as Christian in that you have conscience convictions of you belilieve the scriptures teach as a whole. I think alot of folks who dont want to bother with thinking about them are just lazy

[@IamGreatsword]

Sorry trying to understand, so convoluted, don't get it, call me an idiot.....

[@duncescotus2342]

No one cares? The Glorious Revolution? And no one cares? I think that's a good thing.

[@nancysarocco2560]

Wait-Michael is a Calvinist??

[@CG2589]

He used to be, I don't think he is now. He gave his soteriology beliefs on a recent patreon video and he said wasn't a calvinist unless that's changed.

[@sibylleherbe8260]

Please don’t take offense at this, but I wish you guys would speak English. I’ve been a Christian for 46 years, I read the Bible every single day, but I have no idea what you are talking about. You are using words that mean nothing to me. Maybe I’m the only one, so carry on.

[@michaelrowntree2005]

You’re right this was a big word episode. I tried to help us slow down 🤷‍♂️

[@Eloign]

Watch his debate with Leighton Flowers. He's smart but lost that debate imo in some spectacular ways. His knowledge of church history is good just Calvinism trips him up.

[@alt-monarchist]

Protestant cringe 😬. The Orthodox Church is the only true church.

[@jonharris722]

I'd encourage you guys to distance yourselves from Bro. Webbon in light of this past year's content that is Theonomic and Christian Nationalist and divisively collectivist. If you all want to have a much better representation of the 1689 LBC fold, reach out to the guys at @Theocast. They (and the associated church network Grace Reformed Network) are great representations of a more historic and sustainable approach to Reformed Baptist / Particular Baptist with resources out of Westminster Seminary and its other national affiliates.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

We just had Theocast on the show! A great episode. Catch it here: kzbin.infoZQ6VOVIUD-Q?si=HYOZYMMr-ao6h0Tg