The 3 Biggest Garden Errors I Made Early On In My Food Forest: Learn From My Mistakes!

Any garden design process has failures, errors, mistakes that become opportunities for learning. Looking back on 14+ years of food forest design here at Parkrose Permaculture, these are the 3 biggest errors I made, and I hope that sharing them helps you avoid repeating my mistakes.
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[@wesleyrobbins]

I think your trees are so big because your soil biology is off the charts

[@usa-empireis-dead227]

NO tree should be planted within 30 feet of a house if you do not want roots to find cracks in your house foundation / basement. OR make sure you put in a strong bamboo barrier material around your house first if you like trees near the house : ) barrier must be able to go down 7 feet to ensure 0 issues.

[@rebeccajohnson1368]

What is an example of banboo material barrier? I've got an oak tree 10 ft away from my house. Really nervous about what it is going to do. Thanks!

[@harriettejensen479]

I started my little food forest about the same time as you and I made some of the same mistakes, mostly due to lack of research and partially because I love trees.. 1) I planted both a black elderberry and a bay tree too close to my fence. The elderberry was 18" tall when I got it. It is now more than 18 feet tall. The Bay tree was about 3 ft and I knew nothing about it except that I used the leaves in cooking. It is also about 18 ft. tall. 2) I planted a pineapple sage, thinking it was an annual like all the other salvias I had seen. It turned out to be a perennial and it is now 3 ft. tall and 3 t. wide and crowding my dwarf lemon. I would take it out, but the hummingbirds love it and they come to visit me when I'm in the yard. My paths are also too narrow. I have been willing to deal with it because I'm the only one who spends time in the garden. However, I am getting older and can no longer do things like fell trees (one of them is a peach tree I planted from seed ; it is huge and gets brown rot every year), It's going to cost me a bit to remove them and I'm sure that the landscaper won't be happy at having to duck and weave to get to it and to get the wood out. I may end up having to remove the peach tree's wood myself, an armload at a time. We all make mistakes when we're new at something and are enthusiastic and incautious, so I'm just chalking it up to a big "lesson learned".

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Great comment Harriette. Another big thing to consider (for Angela's mistake #1 in this video) is that what matters the most here is the rootstock. If a tree is grafted, the actual variety of the fruiting wood doesn't matter in terms of how big the tree will get. What matters is the rootstock that it's grafted to. A Benton Cherry grafted to Mazzard rootstock may end up to be 30 feet tall, but the same Benton Cherry grafted to Gisela rootstock may only end up 8 feet tall.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Another big thing to consider (for Angela's mistake #1 in this video) is that what matters the most here is the rootstock. If a tree is grafted, the actual variety of the fruiting wood doesn't matter in terms of how big the tree will get. What matters is the rootstock that it's grafted to. A Benton Cherry grafted to Mazzard rootstock may end up to be 30 feet tall, but the same Benton Cherry grafted to Gisela rootstock may only end up 8 feet tall.

[@amyjones2490]

Portland is an unusual growing zone. Things that are bushes here in Michigan are trees out there.

[@barneygimble8984]

One good thing about fast growing trees. You can cut them hard and if you make good cuts they heal fast

[@beckymiller6703]

I did the same thing, I built a compost bin too close to the entryway of my chicken run. I also planted a nectarine tree on my southwest corner of my yard only to find it is a wind tunnel in that corner. .. I'm working on building a wind break so the tree is not battered but...well here in New Mexico we have 5 seasons one being wind. 😟

[@nmnate]

I luckily had the foresight to plant a hedgerow in the first year we started planting out our front yard. I'd recommend apache plume as a native semi-evergreen and curl-leaf mahogany as a native evergreen. Fernbush is a plant that I adore, but it's not native to NM (but other parts of the southwest). It grows insanely well for me. All three are prunable and fill in fairly well, and seem to be tolerant of various soil conditions. Any of the scrub brush shrubs are also good options (big sage, chamisa, etc). The wind was brutal this spring. I lost 2/3 of the new branches on a crabapple.

[@janesheppard9467]

I’ve been gardening organically for 40 years, but converted it to permaculture about 4 years ago. Needless to say I’m still learning, but the one thing I did right (I’m getting older and have the space) is I left 3 rows that are wide enough for my electric golf cart (it has a dump box), and gates that are wide enough to get through. I have been planting semi-dwarf trees and wish I had planted dwarf or columnar trees. What I have are all requiring way too much pruning to keep them at a reasonable size. I have 3 peach trees, one was supposed to be a nectarine and they all have had the worst peach leaf curl because of our wet spring. I didn’t look for resistant varieties but instead planted varieties that I know are grown commercially near here, big mistake. I may take them out yet and replant but it’s hard to give up on 4 years worth of effort. Every year it’s a learning experience which is what keeps me trying. I’ve wish I had discovered your channel a few years ago, you’re a big help and a great teacher.

[@anhaicapitomaking8102]

The way I see it is that many dwarf and column varieties are more prone to illness. So I prefer pruning than spraying even with natural concoctions as a job to do. But we are all different and all places are different too. Interesting to read that someone who is a professional in organic growing has turned to permaculture, it's usually the other way around XD

[@katiecannon8186]

My dream is a golf cart. One day. 🥹

[@permiebird937]

One of my largest problems on getting started with a food forest was all the plants sold as "self fertile" but after a few years of growth, they prove to not be "self fertile" at all. I have 3 22 year old chestnut trees, that I discovered the variety is pollen sterile, and needs a pollinator , when they were about 7 years old. I have two new chestnuts growing and one is finally blooming hopefully I will get a decent crop this year. The other difficulty is when the catalogue says the plant is self fertile, only to discover it isn't. Goumi, and Autumn Olive, are both sold as self fertile, when neither produced until I planted a pollinator. Accuracy in garden catalogues would be most appreciated.

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

oh that's such a good point! If you read the fine print in some catalogs it's "self-fertile but sets better fruit with a partner" I have a self-fertile pear (Seckel) but there are lots of other pears in my neighborhood, so I'm sure it's getting some pollination from other sources.

[@jennifersurrette4219]

@Permie Bird Regarding chestnuts: I tried germinating chestnut seeds from grocery store chestnuts (just for fun) and managed to get 6 to germinate. They are 4 months old, looking beautiful, and about 2 feet tall in pots. I have NO idea from what type of chestnut they came . In your (or anyone else's) opinion, are they worth planting to see what happens, or am I being irresponsible and my time/money would be better spent on buying known cultivars. I don't have an infinite amount of space or time only to discover they are pollen sterile or some other issue that comes from seedlings of unknown origin. I appreciate any feedback.

[@permiebird937]

@@jennifersurrette4219 A lot of grocery store chestnuts are pollen sterile. Personally at this point, I wouldn't plant from the grocery store. If you see some at a farmers market, and you can talk to the farmer you are better off. Another source would be if there are chestnuts growing in your city or region and producing nuts, that would be a good free source, or this fall, a lot of chestnut growers will sell nuts, and some you can order by variety. In the Pacific Northwest, both Burnt Ridge Nursery and Washington Chestnut Company sell named nut varieties and sell trees. Burnt Ridge also sell very affordable seedlings of their chestnut varieties, so just making sure the variety is not pollen sterile, which the catalog notes, and get inexpensive hybrids. If you are in the East in areas with historic chestnut blight, Twisted Tree nursery sells blight resistant hybrid chestnuts for tree planting. Chestnut trees can be bought in the west for planting in the East, but Eastern trees are not allowed to be shipped to the west. If you are in Portland or Olympia, check out BuilSoil.net. Build Soil is a young non profit that gives out chestnut trees in fall and/or spring. This year there should be a fall give away in Portland, and a Chestnut festival. If you want nuts, and you can only fit 2 trees into your space, make certain both can produce pollen. If you are putting in 3 or more trees, make certain at least 2 trees produce pollen, so the rest of the trees all get pollinated.

[@jennifersurrette4219]

@@permiebird937 I truly appreciate your reply. I'm really glad I reached out; very helpful, indeed. I am in Eastern Canada, so can't buy from the US. I will check in with my local nurseries. I have collected seed from a large surviving American chestnut at some historic grounds in my area, but have never been successful in getting them to germinate.

[@SustainablePrepping]

These are great! The biggest thing I’ve learned from garden failures is to not do too much at once. It’s easy to get ahead of ourselves, then be overwhelmed with the care a garden needs. Starting small is just fine (I’m remind myself!). Also - I really loved your video for the Friday Hausfrau and am eagerly looking forward to part 2! As someone stepping into full time feminist hone making with 4 kids (14, 12, and twin 2.5 yos) I am hungrily seeking advice/insight/ideas for how to manage it all.

[@1985wvufan]

Ok, I am a lot older than you, I am 64. No wheel barrel, mine is a lot bigger, I use a skid steer. That is right, but I have about an acre. So I have made my food forest so I can drive and turn a small skid steer, New Holland 325.

[@tthappyrock368]

My dwarf plum was supposed to be 10-12 feet high. It's at least 20ft tall and close to that around. The grafts all died but the root stock turned out to be Mirabelle! Loaded this year!

[@AmzBackyardOrchardandVineyard]

Greetings from Arizona zone 9b. we have been battling our desert sun, heat, wind, birds and other environmental problems in our backyard. your forest is so beautiful! it's amazing how those dwarf varieties are just a relative term! we have a dwarf sweet lemon and it's pushing the 15 ft tall!

[@nigellablossom]

We have a contorted mulberry, as well. It is so lovely.. easily my favorite tree here.. but, yes, it is HUGE! It's more like 20' x 20'.

[@gardentours]

I have some of those divas in my garden but I'm not ready to give them up. A lot of work is envolved when frost comes but until now it was quite rewarding.

[@FlyingFrog87]

Your videos are so helpful! Thank you. It seems like when most people make KZbin videos about some thing they love in their garden they spend most the time excitedly raving about it, which isn’t a bad thing. But you give lots of good information in your videos, which help people decide whether or not what is good for you is good for them. Your video about hardy kiwi‘s was very helpful in that even though I would love to have them, I realized I do not have a good place for them right now. Maybe later though

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

Thank you!!

[@artifex_amandalastname2297]

Re: tree size, mature size is not always maximum size. I read a very helpful pruning book that explained this; Case Turnbull's Guide to Pruning.

[@brianthomas3910]

Not sure if it’s the case here ,but don’t plant your new trees deeper than the graft point, if you plant above the graft line the tree you wanted becomes the tree it wants to be because it’ll reroot and override the grafted roots. Good luck everybody!

[@AmelieHarms]

Checks off the list... 1. I usually check a lot of sites for sizes. I think sellers use ten year size? 2. Paths are big, but it's still hard to turn my big wheel barrow. 😅 I've been really good keeping my south facing side open for equipment. It's an important in route... 3. Not my apricot of shame! 🤣 Don't call me out like that. I also planted it before the soil was ready. If it survives long enough I'll move it to a better place. I've still got room for plants to die in situ.

[@LuckyFigFarm]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@tim1tim2tim3tim4]

thank you. Ill keep these in mind and my future self already thanks :)

[@irenesgardenandmore]

🌸👍🏼🌺 since your garden is 10 years old , you might follow these two people , but if not , here it goes ( Beltaine Cottage and James Prigioni ) these two people grow the permaculture way , all natural and no pesticides. Their fruit is fabulous . I follow their channel and have patterned my permaculture garden like theirs . I like yours as well , thanks for sharing !

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

I’ve followed Bealtaine Cottage since she first began. I really appreciate her channel!

[@karenjcosme]

Elderberry tree - ginormous. Had to tear out two (came with the house) that were hanging over my roof and my neighbor's yard. Made a yuge! mess every year. When I go to Martha's Vineyard I see 50ft trees, set very far from houses. Mulberry - I grew up with one on the side a nearby bakery's lot. We (3-4 of us) would hide under the canopy and just devour everything we found. Years later it was still about 20ft high. I think I'll plant and pollard yearly.

[@chickentender4037]

Learn a lot from mistakes, mine and others'. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@Khaliqsim]

wonderful video

[@mitchellbrown9713]

Oh I am right there with you on #3. I tried growing plumeria out of climate, avocados out of climate, and a couple others. No more.

[@growinginportland]

Looking forward to seeing more of your videos. I'm moving to Portland Oregon Tomorrow in the Parkrose Heights Area. I definitely want to turn my property into a Food Forrest. It will be a long process, but I look forward to the challenge. Keep posting videos, I'll keep watching. I am a eager student Ready to learn. All my Best. Thanks.

[@BearMeat4Dinner]

Waving hi from SF.❤

[@melissamybubbles6139]

I think if I ever got large shrubs, I think I'd put them in pots to contain them. As it is, with my health issues, my plan might get smaller. I'd like to grow at least a few things, but at a small effort.

[@allysonvollmer7223]

my grandparents had a huge hanging thing made of whatever your earings are.... what are they????

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

Thing about catalog descriptions is that it is probably correct for the conditions in which the plant was developed or is native. Chances are, those conditions are not the same as your garden. Finding people with similar conditions and are growing the plant is necessary if you need to know beforehand.

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

good point! Although, I think some of the catalogs I order from oversell the "dwarfing" quality of some fruit plants bc home gardeners want smaller, but a health plant will grow much bigger. My elders are in full shade and in the poorest soil in my whole yard and yet they're whoppers. I was hoping the conditions there would keep them smaller, but they sure showed me!

[@ediblelandscaping1504]

@@ParkrosePermaculture That's interesting. I'm wondering myself if some trees will "self-prune" and limit their own growth if they are crowded versus what they might normally get. I have two Evans Sour Cherry trees, one planted apart with generous room and it is big and regularly requires serious pruning to keep it in check. The second is in the corner of a terrace and surrounded by perennials and I can't get it to grow much beyond 5ft, even though I would like it to. Strange....

[@jdubmac]

One of my biggest mistakes was buying a hobby farm where the owners ran a native nursey. We're in western WA, and unfortunately they gardened like they were still living in Cali. We had tons of unhelpful vines on the house or trees planted against the house. We are slowly converting medlars to fresh fruit trees, and making it more of a food forest rather than an invasive herbs garden. Does anyone know a good method for ridding property of bamboo?

[@MrBaker-qr6yi]

Hours of cutting down and digging out roots. See my comment above on the same question.

[@nmnate]

I definitely have a couple plants that I have to baby too much. I have a pomegranate in zone 6b and a handful of figs that might not be worth the extra effort. At some point I will pull out a handful of plums / crosses that will bloom too early most years (or can develop disease issues like canker and invite peach borers). I'm planning on putting more disease resistant trees in their place that should require less work, like apples and maybe an astringent persimmon (which should have no pests here). I'm becoming a huge fan of plants that grow like weeds here. So far, Jujubes and native currants are in that category. I think apricots are super long lived here, but they fruit infrequently due to our late frosts. They make glorious shade trees. 🙂 I did plant my trees fairly close to each other (semi-dwarf rootstocks planted somewhere between 7 and 10' on centers), with the plan at keeping the trees pruned to size. Hopefully I won't come to regret that spacing when the trees are a little more mature. I made sure to edge a wide path in the front yard to get a wheelbarrow through easily, but I can't get between all of the shrubs in other parts of the yard to spread mulch quite as easily. It's a little extra work to fork or rake out all the mulch, but luckily it's not that often that I have to top off my layer of mulch. It's good exercise, though.

[@rachelneely9973]

I, too, am in NM. Would you mind sharing which type of currant you favor? Also, is there only one type of Jujube? I am having mixed success with fruit plants and would love to plant some that grow like weeds here!

[@nmnate]

@@rachelneely9973 The "clove" or Crandall black currants are rugged and almost zero work for me in 6b. Wax/golden currants should be similar (theyre native here). The gooseberries and jostaberries are a bit pickier (can get a little cranky with too much sun). Redcurrants don't seem to like the afternoon sun much, either. We have both honey jar and sugar cane jujube trees. They started fruiting in the 2nd/3rd years. These varieties are a bit on the early side and seem to reliably get to fully brown by the time our season is wrapping up. Super easy plants, in my opinion. We put them on irrigation and more or less ignore them. They leaf out around our last frost dates if we have a warm spring. Otherwise they're noticeably after the last frost date.

[@rachelneely9973]

@@nmnate Thank you so much for your reply. Golden currants were the only native I knew. I will look into all of these.

[@nmnate]

@@rachelneely9973 I've found 'Crandall' currants during the Waterwise summer sales. I can't remember the last time I saw a wax currant for sale, but it may have been at Plants of the Southwest. Some native plants can be tricky to find. Luckily we have some pretty good nurseries 🙂

[@rachelneely9973]

@@nmnate I did not know about Plants of the Southwest. Thank you for sharing.

[@MyHumbleNest]

I am interested in how your preserve and cook with your paw paws. I am unfamiliar with this fruit in zone 5. Thanks.

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

They are best preserved in the freezer. I remove the pulp from the seeds and skin and freeze in 2 cup quantities.

[@cristinaj2504]

Black Elder trees are about 8-10 feet and they have black leaves and are very striking. Regular Elder trees (green leaves, white flowers) grow much much taller. I don’t see a Black Elder in the video. Maybe they sent you a regular Elder by mistake.

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

do you mean the cultivar "black lace"? It has dark leaves and purpley flowers and is smaller. But I mean black elder as in "black elderberries" v "blue elderberries" (the latter is native in my area but gets HUGE

[@cristinaj2504]

@@ParkrosePermaculture Yes when you said black elder in your video I thought you meant either ‘black lace’ or black beauty’ elder, which are indeed both 8 foot varieties. Here in the UK we have what’s called ‘common elder’ which is native/wild, grows enormously tall, and is used for making elderflower syrup (it’s a commonly available soft-drink flavour here) as well as elderberry syrup (even here it is still just medicinal). I do not know about blue elderberries, sounds very interesting!

[@louise2209]

I love citrus and the family loves exotic fruit, but I know that without a heated greenhouse, it isn’t happening. I do have an apricot and so far it’s okay, but reality is, this season in my specific area (not necessarily in the rest of the U.K.), it has been mild to hot and there has been little rain dragging sickness with it. So while the apricot is settling in fine, the pear tree (which should do well here and was an older plant with a stronger root system) is showing signs of stress! (These two trees are about 3 meters apart, same soil, with bases covered in woodchip.). In the future, it may be a different story.

[@d.-beck7205]

How is your apricot tree doing after the wet winter and spring?

[@louise2209]

@@d.-beck7205 It’s actually doing okay, maybe as it is slightly sheltered by some established bushes and an elderberry. Its new leaves were being attacked by slugs and snails, however it solved that by creating a long off shoot branch. Downside is that I have had to create supports as that branch can’t support itself! The main stem has some growth now, so I will likely chop back the off shoot a bit once it’s helped the tree store lots of energy this season. Fingers crossed that the tree continues to grow well.

[@d.-beck7205]

​@@louise2209 Great! I have also bought a tiny apricot tree this year and hope it will survive. I live in mid west Germany.

[@jcrockett870]

I have some Bamboo to get rid of... any ideas?

[@MrBaker-qr6yi]

It took us about 2 years of cutting and digging out root balls by hand/shovel/crowbar to get rid of the 10x20 foot patch in the back yard here. Hard work, had to make sure we got all the roots. That was my main contribution the first couple of years when we were starting Parkrose Permaculture.

[@bluemoon9474]

Have you considered a wagon

[@katiecannon8186]

I *love* my wagon. So much better than my wheel barrow - which I *never* use anymore. I bout a smaller wagon because it was in stock. I really wanted the next size up. But now I’m soooo happy with the smaller size. It’s just so easy to use. And it’s big enough.