The 3 DUMBEST sword & buckler myths from I.33

[@dashiellharrison4070]

My only quibble is that you left out the worst one: that good sword and buckler fencers always seek the bind and anyone who mostly cuts around doesn't know what they're doing.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Yeaaah... that one requires a whole separate video with some fencing in it....

[@leecraven900]

That one is more universal. Many say that with longsword as well *sigh*

[@dashiellharrison4070]

@@leecraven900 That's true, but fortunately there are enough longsword tournaments now that more people have first hand knowledge of how untrue that is. Plus Meyer is a very popular source, and Meyerites are broadly integrated into the general longsword community, so people have an example of a good historical source that disproves the "always seek the bind" theory. Bolgonese sources could provide the same service to the sword and buckler community, but the differences in gear and terminology result in them being too segregated.

[@gunblade7610]

​@@dashiellharrison4070which is sad because I actually like seeing the morphing from 1.33 to Marozzo like how Guardia sopra barzo is just 1st custodiat and over the arm is just 3rd, Coda longa larga/stretta and Becca possa/chessa is just variations of 6th custodiat, Guardia di alta is just 4th. Other than being able to fence with sword in front of the buckler at times and needing to deal with more thrusts (hence we have the targa for more blade control) they should be cross pollinating each other and in a sense what bolognese is doing is building off of 1.33. Yeah they shouldn't be segregated!

[@r.h5550]

You are the first guy i came across on YT who actually makes the rather obvious remark that medieval art is most likely suspect to many artistic compromises and stylistic choices. Of course i am only a hobbyist but i am astonished how some people make claims referrimg to medieval iconography as if they had a photograph before them. And demystifying sword and buckler is a great endeavor as especially this discipline seems to be ridden with a tendency to elitism through making things overly complex and neglecting athletic aspects of fighting by some of its most prominent figures Keep the work and greetings from Gremany !

[@gorbalsboy]

The graveyards of medieval battlefields are full of skeletons with evidence of lower leg strikes(and lnside sword arm with a finishing strike to head)

[@weaselrampant]

I agree with everything you say except regarding covering the sword hand. I agree with your more widely-angled half shield, which covers its side better. The only assumption that I will stick to, which you dislike, is that the sword and shield do need to be together when in longpoint and halfshield. The text specifically says that all actions end in longpoint, which is a particularly dangerous position for the hands. Wards are starting points for cuts, not ending points. If you are cutting from ward to ward, the text does not support that. Keeping the shield with the hand during longpoint actions also tend to make the sword work more like one of the later complex-hilted swords, allowing for safer actions from that position. Thrusts especially are aided by the wedge-like action of the sword and shield together. The text also specifically says that certain actions are possible if your opponent separates their sword and shield, implying that the usual position is together when in longpoint. Like longsword, binds happen when the swords come together, and I also agree that you shouldn’t seek the bind specifically, but that binds happen, and the manuscript gives one or two tempo solutions for the most part for when binds do happen. I’m all for mixed-system fighting, but it seems like you don’t like I.33 very much, and are trying to make it something that it isn't.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

My point regarding s&b staying together is the claim that you are required to do it all the time, every time. I.33 is the only source where you supposedly keep them together in the extension of the cut. No other source shows that. Talhoffer, Kal, the Bolognese, and numerous other sources show both options when cutting. Does I.33 seem to be showing only that? Yes, which I made clear in the video. That is a problem, though, for a variety of reasons. Langort being dangerous for the hands - so in single messer it's not dangerous? Yet you have a very extended Langort in Leckuchner. You can have thrusts aided by wedge-like action of the sword & buckler together. Or not. Its nor a requirement. From the get go I am talking about why I don't like the effect I.33 *interpretations* have had on HEMA s&b in general. I do actually like I.33 outside of the HEMA s&b context. Meaning I think it's another valuable data point. But people who do only I.33, a messy, tiny, incomplete and contextually unclear system, tend to fence like shit.

[@weaselrampant]

@@borislavkrustev8906 Its one of the reasons why I'm trying to develop a robust sparring-tested i.33 interpretation, and I really do appreciate your videos and comments on it. To me, the separate buckler style looks messy and random, unless a longer sword like a sidesword is used. For arming swords, just like messers, getting in and gaining control of your opponent's sword is key.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@weaselrampant That's great, I hope to see your work at some point. S&b in general and I.33 in particular really needs more of that approach. And I think you will find yourself agreeing with me more through that process :)

[@thunder2434]

Thank you this video was very refreshing. You see, when HEMA rose to prominence we in the SCA who do (or did) heavy combat (among others with buckler and sword) got a lot of flak for how we did leg hits, used a more free Buckler not magnetized to the sword hand and also very much basing defense with a Buckler on the cone you show here. We were discredited for doing what you describe, in part because of competition for members but also of who should or could be a credible source for Sword combat training. Surely not us rattan weilding degenerates and has-beens... I'm not saying the SCA is or was perfect but surely a joint interest and development had been possible back then. As it was we did voice much the same things about legs and the I33 being interpreted in a very literal and narrow minded way. It's interesting how HEMA 20-30 years later is coming ever closer to what we were doing back then, what we'd been doing for some 40 years already at the time.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

It's because of sparring. If you actively spar, and you don't hold onto misconceptions, sooner or later you find what works much better than HEMA pseudo-authorities.

[@Shiresgammai]

As a historian I must point out that the mere idea that the I.33 provides life-like movements and guards is bizarre to say the very least. The artist of the I.33 obviously didn't intend to give away actual techniques, otherwise he would have used very different means of illustrating the manuscript. If anything, the I.33 is evidence of an existing fencing culture in the late medieval period in the HRE, but it isn't really a manual in any modern sense (it does however refer to an actual fencing system).

[@JCOwens-zq6fd]

True, i have used everything from a kindjal short sword to a messer for I.33. Many such things do not matter as much as people think.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

A very cool video!!

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Thanks, mate :)

[@canarddefer3574]

Great video. Part of the problem is that many HEMA practitioners take the view that what is unique about any given manual must define it. There is some usefulness to this approach because, without it, the community is in danger of reducing everything to generalisations; therefore, if I.33 encourages binding, doesn't show leg attacks and makes a comment early on that discourages them, accept that this may have been a feature of that particular system. But this shouldn't blind us to the fact that each Medieval manual is a snapshot in place and time, and no more a guide of how a combat system worked in practice than a modern karate manual.

[@One_Pun]

I have nothing smart to say, so I am just helping the algorithm.

[@jimmyharris5606]

Honestly leg hits are my most successful attacks.

[@sleep-of-ages]

There's strong archaeological evidence for leg hits especially from the battle of Visby where they represented a disproportionate number if the wounds found on the skeletons of the defenders (who had no leg armour on). So hack away!

[@nutyyyy]

​@alexcontreras562 Makes sense if that's the most vulnerable areas.

[@ivobleijenberg3171]

Agreed on all points. Good vid Borislav!

[@Druid_Ignacy]

This is all so important what you're saying. That's what happens when ppl don't study the sources scientifically nor only as interesting context, but take approach in-between, which is nothing more than creating fantasy land - as you've said - which is build no upon training and experience nor upon study.

[@pointdangerfilms9751]

Nice. I like the point about not have to flatten the buckler. Good Job.

[@edwinpoon]

Wait... R people actually flattening the buckler?? That opens up the deeper targets behind the buckler, doesnt make sense to interpret 1.33 like that, gosh.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

ALL THE TIME. Even know, just search sword and buckler in the last year and you will seenit in sparring, workshops and even tourneys.

[@lanistaeliberipragenses8705]

Like we can see in Manciolino Book 4. Attact to legs is first choise if you want to survive.

[@keithcotter-reilly]

Good video Borislav

[@dequitem]

Great Video! I hope i wasnt an inspiration with my Harnischfechtvideo, were i only use it for punching and extra handprotection :D

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Nah, I love your videos. And for harnisch what you do makes sense. There are illustrations of people in armor carrying bucklers, btw, as illogical as it might seem :)

[@johncartwright8154]

leg hits. I have scored many a point on leg and foot fencing epee. Being left handed, the leading leg and foot of one's opponent is closer to my tip, and a right-hander is often not aware of this. I could only get away with such a touche once per bout though, as I found to my cost!

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Imagine what it would be if you had a second weapon AND the option to cut, not just thrust.

[@johncartwright8154]

@@borislavkrustev8906 I do in Mugai Nito Ryu!

[@Dimythios]

Excellent video!

[@russmitchellmovement]

Nicely done.

[@tomdutoit5591]

You make some good points, for sure. However, as someone learns and grows, their opinions and theories change, and even sometimes contradict one another over time. It would be unfair for me to play 'gotcha' on some of the details you are putting forth on this video today, a decade from now. Also, throwing theories out there about things the community is uncertain about can be reckless, but at the same time can be one of the best catalyst for growth and learning. Discrediting a theory over time can be as valuable as strengthening it. Also, place is just as important as time. For many in HEMA, reconstructing a particular master's take on the art is more important to them than the martial soundness in the context of a modern HEMA competition. Lastly, I hope that you contacted Mr. Warzecha before you made this video. You know, golden rule et cetera. Over all, good video.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

I have no issue with you going back 10 years ago and criticizing whatever I did on video there. There are videos on my channel from almost that long ago. However, your point would absolutely be valid - if the myths I am talking about weren't so prevalent still in HEMA today. Many people have not learned or grown at all in the last decade. "Reconstructing a particular master's take... is more important than martial soundness..." - sorry, but that makes no sense to me. If there is no martial soundness, you have done a shitty reconstruction. Unless you assume the specific fencing master wrote a book with shitty fencing - which is not impossible, but then why are you reconstructing it?

[@borislavkrustev8906]

As for contacting mr. Warzecha - I have not bothered trying since a long time ago, as he has demonstrated time and again he is not willing to discuss his claims in any manner that doesn't include condescending comments and little substance. As for the golden rule, I am perfectly fine with anyone doing whatever video they want criticizing me - my face, name and fencing is out here. Shoot away.

[@tomdutoit5591]

​ @borislavkrustev8906 ​ '...more important than martial soundness in the context of a modern HEMA competition​'. Of course the master being studied was teaching martially sound content in his own particular historical, geographic and situational context. But this could be much different that ours in HEMA competition, fully protected, operating within a ruleset, using blunts, et cetera.

[@airnt]

i caan think of a few more insideous miths... like duck-bum stances deliberaately trained or only cutting with no hau-mechanic, only schnitt, deliberately non-percssively aas opposed to specific targetted use of schnitts amongst strikes... or not using strikes to target or to bin with authority...

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Yep, but most of those are not just s&b ones, they are quite common practices in the more so-called "traditional martial" crowd.

[@airnt]

@@borislavkrustev8906 are they? i mostly see the opposite fromt that crowd. duck bum and tippi toes are uncommon in longsword, for instance, and especiaally in pollaxe (though some people just don't have their body sorted out to combat their swayed back, that is unfortunate, but not the same as deliberately creating a maß-less stance)

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@airnt Some rapier people love to do weird postures.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@airnt And some Fiorists do weird everything, claiming it is more "martial", and that it doesn't work in sparring because it's too martial...

[@airnt]

@@borislavkrustev8906 agreed that there are some fringe weird ideas all over, i know a german guy that promotes hollow backs and weird positions too, even though he does lichtenaauer etc. but as a general trend less so? might be biased to whom i play with

[@xavierdespinaysaintluc7896]

I totally agree with everything said in this video.

[@vote4wes]

I always wondered where I heard you needed to keep the sword and Buckler together at all times. Couldn't actually find It written anywhere 😅

[@Heresjonnyagain]

I have to say I could have done without the background music

[@borislavkrustev8906]

At all? Okay, I'll keep it in mind.

[@Heresjonnyagain]

I just find it distracting and like many struggle with the ‘cocktail party effect’. My only negative feedback!

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@Heresjonnyagain Nah, that's good, I was also not 100% sure if I should put music or not, which is why I tried to keep it pretty low. Thank you, that is valuable feedback.

[@Aleksei_Lopatin]

I wonder if leg hits so useful why they armoured last? Or even not at all?

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Sorry, we are talking about unarmoured combat on foot here. I assumed that was clear. As for why legs are armoured last - they aren't, they are armoured with steel last, for a variety of reasons. Leg armor costs a ton to make well, requires a lot of metal, and it has to fit better than a simple cuirass or a helmet. Either way, knights and men-at-arms who could afford it wore leg armor all the time.

[@Aleksei_Lopatin]

@@borislavkrustev8906 so u can't realise that parts that got lower chance of injury armoured last? Ok

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@Aleksei_Lopatin In what context? That's key, because different contexts lead to different chances.

[@Aleksei_Lopatin]

@@borislavkrustev8906 sry i dont wanna loose my time 4 this mental gymnastic

[@borislavkrustev8906]

@@Aleksei_Lopatin No one is asking you to :) But if you can't recognize that different contexts lead to different priorities, you won't do very well at analysing hand understanding HEMA.

[@grahampawson1502]

Brilliant 😎👏

[@allengordon6929]

We don't know how late of a for a lack of a better term edition i.33 is.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

What do you mean? If its a copy of a copy of an earlier source? Possible, but there is no indication of that.

[@allengordon6929]

@@borislavkrustev8906 exactly what I mean. It's obvious it doesn't exist in a vacuum. But what context does it exist in? To what does it share it's context with?

[@sergireig]

Never heard the one about the legs. Sources show a lot of attack a to legs, really

Bobo spittin raw facts. 😄

[@kinglizzy612]

Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) is a relatively new martial art. It seeks to revive and reconstruct the weapons and techniques used in Europe from the dawn of Athens to the first world war. Though the primary focus is on the middle ages from the 11th-19th centuries. This it would have not been hema cus this is a relatively new thing .... To re show off what they did so we know how they fought back then .... Back then they woulda simple just said sparring and called it deadly sparring most likely ... The fact your using hema like it's a 💯 historical term ....

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Historical European Martial Arts is also an area of study and a categorization of systems. I never claim anywhere that it is a historical term, so I have no odea what you are talking about

[@kinglizzy612]

Ok if you flatten _-it-_ /THEE Buckler/ out like a pancake and do " certain " TYPES OF MOVEMENT... you will protect and guard every thing this IS NOT SOME STATIC (((BLOCK STAND IN PLACE LIKE THE MOVIES THING )))

[@kinglizzy612]

This is you giving an opinion... on things and I can tell cus for only 1/10th of logic... and we're is historical logic and reasoning ... you don't give supporting proof to 80 percent of what you say and while it ( not not technically) the truth it's only part of it #truth

[@borislavkrustev8906]

Sure, dude, no problem, I'd be happy to answer any counter-arguments - if you have them :) If you don't, I don't really care about your opinion on my content.

[@MikeCherba]

RE Leg shots. experiencecaucasus.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/parikaoba.jpg kneeling/crouching fencing changes a lot of things too.