The 60,000-year-old artefact rewriting Neanderthal history - BBC REEL

In 1995, archaeologist Ivan Turk discovered a unique perforated bone in the Divje Babe cave in Slovenia. The artefact was found in the middle of a palaeolithic layer of earth, near the remains of a Neanderthal fire place, stone and bone tools.
Extensive experimental research confirmed that the holes in the bone were hand-made and that the bone was likely a neanderthal flute, between 50,000 to 60,000 years old. This makes it the world’s oldest musical instrument and an object that could re-write our assumptions about the fundamental humanity of our Neanderthal cousins.
Video by Martina Žoldoš
Commissioning Editor: Cagney Roberts
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[@matthewbittenbender9191]

In my opinion getting to play any kind of note on a 60,000-year-old bone from an extinct animal, made by an extinct human species beats playing on an authentic Stradivarius any day of the week.

[@greenman6141]

I think this is the best comment. It is real time travel.

[@mwallace2922]

100% 👍👍

[@PeterGrenader]

I get what you're saying, but someday spin Beethoven's Violin Concerto In D Major, and get back to us 😁

[@ladythalia227]

100%

[@JC-ks3yk]

The more we learn about Neanderthals, the more the image of them as mindless brutes slips away. This flute isn't the work of happenstance. It's most likely the result of much trial and error. Someone wanted to make music and they figured out how to make it happen exactly as they imagined it. It's the work of a beautiful mind.

[@bigalsnow8199]

But that's not a favor towards them. No one ever called them a " mindless brute " Neanderthal was a hominid with a mind...but according to his physical makeup and evidence of his hunting habits...he was Still a brute.

[@jenniferhunter4074]

Look, the reason that some people are surprised is that, for decades, we had this wrong perception that neanderthals were stupid, brutish, ugly creatures. Think of what it means when you call somebody a Neanderthal. It's not a compliment. We started rehabilitating the image when we found a chunk of neanderthal DNA in european whites. Suddenly, white people had to rehabilitate this group of homonids. That's why we suddenly found this discoveries. It's no different from older peoples claiming that aliens helped create the mayan temples and stuff like that. Point of fact, Black Africans, particularly the more interior regions, have the purest Human blood. Every other group is the product of interspecies mingling. I believe the peoples of the americas and the south asia are Denisovan linked. I bet we'll find other signs of our ancestors having fun with members of other species of hominids.

[@bigalsnow8199]

@@jenniferhunter4074 Good point. I have often wondered about the same thing. When Europeans discovered ( to their shock? ) that they had Neanderthal DNA...suddenly the brutal Cannibalistic thugs that they wiped out became a nest of intelligent gentle rugby players who " mated " with them in very romantic situations 😉 It's all good 👍 😌

[@yebobaba]

Mindless brutes and 60.000 years, it's all B.S.

[@mortalclown3812]

My favorite comment.

[@kristynasomerova6632]

The range of that flute is astonishing! But what really gets me is that they were capable of making a flute that seems to be more or less in tune in some kind of a scale made of semitones and whole tones, like the scales we use today. It would be very interesting to know what scale it plays diatonically - with holes fully covered one by one. That should provide a window into the tonality of Neanderthal music, which is an absolutely mindblowing possibility.

[@bobaldo2339]

Agreed!

[@giovannifontanetto9604]

Scales are probably a natural wired aspect of brain functioning, the same way birds sings, etc etc.

[@whitesun264]

She is not playing the object found but a reconstruction of the object.

[@TheLochs]

it seems from many studies that the pentatonic scale was ubiquitous in many ancient cultures being that its derived from the overtone series. It may be the same for the Neanderthals. just a guess, I'd be interested as well to know its scale form. It seems she was able to slide notes as well so it could be semi /micro tonal.

[@ceder4696]

@@TheLochs neanderthals arent a different culture they are a different species

[@sharpiepenfinepoint]

Flutes could also be used to signal to one another while scavenging or hunting. Lets villagers walk far away without getting lost, use signal whistles to warn of danger or friends, or signal directions to the hunt.

[@dustinthewind3925]

Just what I was thinking, it reminded me of the whistles sailors used to relay commands.

[@edwardhanson3664]

The Basque still use a system of whistling for communication across distances.

[@Valkirth]

this is what i was thinking too when they failed to mention anything to do with communication, even sounds can be a form of speech much like the animal kingdom.

[@2degucitas]

Whistle signaling can be done while appearing to be bird sounds. It hides the presence of human activity.

[@matthewlarson2161]

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the musicians at 3:34 tuning up behind the flute/whistle musician... "Danger everyone...Cave bear...Henry, get your lute...I'll do the bone thing this time..."

[@residentenigma7141]

As a Neanderthal, I'm very proud that my ancestors inspired those other - crazy - monkeys with some culture.

[@barrycooper8640]

There's still time to rid the earth of the remnants of Neanderthals.

[@residentenigma7141]

@@barrycooper8640 Indeed, it's in our nature. Oh, your comment has disappeared. Have you been ridden-of ?

[@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475]

5% of human DNA could be Neanderthal. But that doesn't mean the influence was only 5%. It could be an outsized contributor. How much did Neanderthals influence humans? That's a good question.

[@chrisyoung5929]

@@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Good point. As an example for western cultures the influence of ancient Greece is huge, literature, Philosophy, Culture, Politics etc., but as a group they were not large.

[@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475]

@@chrisyoung5929 Good analogy, yes. People hear "5% this" and assume it is small, but if it's 5% uranium it sure isn't something to be ignored. We could have gotten a lot of ideas from Neanderthals, technological and cultural. Some fundamental concepts we spread to other cultures. But many humans want to believe humans poofed into existence separate from any other animals. And claim humans to be unique in every way (which they are certainly not).

[@TheLonelyPanther]

In case you arewondering, what she's playing in 5:10 is Albinoni's: Adagio in G minor.

[@HuplesCat]

Thanks

[@calvind543]

Fun fact: "The [...] Adagio in G minor for strings and organ, is a neo-Baroque composition commonly attributed to the 18th-century Venetian master Tomaso Albinoni, but actually composed by 20th-century musicologist and Albinoni biographer Remo Giazotto, purportedly based on the discovery of a manuscript fragment by Albinoni. There is a continuing scholarly debate about whether the alleged fragment was real, or a musical hoax perpetrated by Giazotto, but there is no doubt about Giazotto's authorship of the remainder of the work."

[@TheLonelyPanther]

@@calvind543 😊 This is news to me.. Thanks a lot for sharing Long Live The Internet

[@intercat4907]

Good job. Yes, that was a happy double-take for me too.

[@standdbyme]

Thank you! I was wondering just that and was hoping someone in the comment might point that out :)

[@janiverster6162]

I just listened to a classical piece of music played on an instrument designed by a Neanderthal. Mind blown.

[@fellipedasilva99]

“It’s possible that the instrument didn’t produce more than a single whistle.” *Meanwhile, women plays a whole tune with it in the background*

[@cangrejomagico9812]

yeah the narration is pretty dumb, Opera Instituti Archaeologici Sloveniae proved the instrument is a complete musical piece

[@knightstemplar6243]

Our ancestors were truly more advanced than most people realize

[@constantinosschinas4503]

People tend to forget that man used fire 2 million years ago, if not more. Plus, we completely forget that computers and especially mobile devices have lowered (lowered) our IQ and keep going...

[@SeleneSalvatore]

And have deep connection with their environment. Ours ancestors live in dangerous times in hostile environment but have tangible connection with nature, spirit world and their ancestors. This flutes is a clue that they live in complex societies and this instrument could play many roles in it. From storytelling to hunting signals to death and rebirth ceremonies.

[@george5156]

Especially when you consider the brain shrinking around 3,000 years ago

[@Etheral101]

Neanderthals were not our ancestors but a different type of human.

[@knightstemplar6243]

@@Etheral101 sorry but most European people have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA 🧬 this has been proven some years ago Neanderthal didn’t go extinct but more than likely they were blended with modern humans much like today different people having offspring from different cultures

[@sandramorey2529]

Why wouldn't they make music? If they could talk, they could sing. Storytellers have always looked for ways to tell stories and that's how balladry formed. This flute is so beautiful. I am so glad the neanderthal made use of it. I hope we will discover more of the primitive flutes and perhaps we will know if we are looking at the first Recorder.

[@Ck-zk3we]

Zero proof this was made by Neanderthal

[@ceder4696]

Its not clear if they could talk, the lady said so but they probably had weird highy toned sqeauky audible vibrations the could produce but not the same as ours.

[@jesipohl6717]

all flutes are "primitive" in the sense that they maintain these basic features and this is the only workable definition of primitive that is not also racist. "derived" features of contemporary flutes are that they have more holes or are made of metal, or sometimes electronic. but, having holes at all, being made of worked material, and being long are all primitive features of flutes even today. The recorder is extremely primitive when made of invory, e.g.

[@ceder4696]

@@jesipohl6717 yes but there is no evidence that neanderthals knew about music. African tribes also for the most part only play drums and sing and shout so why would neanderthals in the stone age use flutes its not like it makes beautiful sounds in comparison to the oboe and saxophone that are very hard to create a good sound with and only expert players can make them sound nice to the ears.

[@ceder4696]

Look up oboe jazz and than the german one is really good thats how flute instruments are supposed to sound

[@suziperret468]

As a flute player, this is extremely exciting to know that Neanderthals created the first flute, that is in tune. Of course they had many ways to create a drumbeat. Well, most of us carry their DNA….People love music, it is in our DNA…

[@incasolja1]

Its actually less than 1/3 of the modern pop and of those its less than 2% shared genes and its not the first flute just the oldest found thuse far but still pretty cool #CheckTheRhetoric

[@Ck-zk3we]

We don’t know who made this. They are claiming Neanderthal without proof

[@samsmom1491]

@@Ck-zk3we The age of the flute as well as the bones found are of the same age, so yes, they do know who made it.

[@alyseandrews1066]

@@Ck-zk3we they have evidence that makes it quite likely due to the age and location of the artifact. Just like all of science, we can't PROVE anyhing, but we can make strong theories based on observations and measurements.

[@sv.foamball]

Music is the universal language. We all understand it, including Neanderthals. I can't wait until they find evidence of the first guy that used his bow as a string bass!

[@mrcountry]

A signal whistle don't need more than one hole. It definitely a music instrument.

[@wolfgangwalk337]

Well, for complex hunting strategies something capable of playing simple melodies might be preferable. But I still cannot imagine that they invented this - and couldn't detect the emotional magic that music can induce. I would bet it had at least a shamanistic function as well.

[@effyleven]

We can be sure that if it COULD make all those different pitches, then it almost certainly DID. On the other hand, I have had a harmonica since I was 11 years old, but I have never managed to get a tune out of the darned thing.

[@spindoggytheexplorer2915]

@@effyleven probably didn’t make it yourself though. I’d wager that whoever made it knew how to use it and was aware of the effect it had the people who heard it.

[@lspthrattan]

@@effyleven Good point, but I'm willing to bet that the ancients had far more time to sit around and fool with the thing, just out of boredom on those long dark cold winter days, or just simple curiosity. If you had that kind of time on your hands with literally nothing else to occupy you, you'd probably be a harmonica expert by now.

[@LaurieAnnCurry]

@@effyleven there is this…….. same my friend, same

[@intercat4907]

"Some argue that Neanderthals weren't capable of such sophisticated expression." One of my background cultures is highlighted by museums built on the premise that many artists don't understand the value of their own artistic works, or even realize that they have created art at all. These opinions reveal an enormous amount about the speaker and nothing at all about the artists. Nice flute.

[@DrJohnnyJ]

"Some argue" doesn't mean the speaker agrees.

[@patreekotime4578]

The some argue quote was discussing whether or not Neanderthals or Homo Sapeins made the flute. Not whether or not they appreciated their "artistry". And the argument against Neanderthal having artistic expression has for a very long time been that their brains were too small, not just that they represent cultural differences between modern humans.

[@kmshallaed8989]

@@patreekotime4578 All the evidence is that the Neanderthals' brain was larger than that of modern man. The brain of homo sapiens was also bigger around that time, and was possibly of comparable size to that of the Neanderthals. See the work of people like Dr. Eiluned Pearce of the Dept of Experimental Psychology at Oxford who wrote a paper on this in 2013.

[@yebobaba]

No modern Democrats are capable of it.

[@shuckslbj]

Hey man, I'm not understanding your second sentence - what is the background culture of which you speak, and also what are these museums called?

[@brooklynnchick]

The music she played was hauntingly beautiful! This is a wonderful find that makes me imagine a Neanderthal child laying down to sleep among family and clan, warmed by a fire and lulled by a bone flute lullaby. How well would you sleep!?

[@penguindrum264]

The melody near the end is Tomaso Ablinoni's Adagio in G Minor for Strings and Organ. The modern performances of it are actually a interpretation by a 20th century composer Remo Giazotto who used the fragment he found of Albinoni's music as the basis for the piece.

[@penguindrum264]

The music in the beginning is gorgeous too, but I think it's an original composed by Kantinka Dimkaroska.

[@brooklynnchick]

@@penguindrum264 I love that you know that! I am definitely going to look up more music from both!

[@theprinceofcrows8691]

@@penguindrum264 The part at the end is also used at the end of Jim Morrison's An American Prayer. The singer of the Doors last poetry album.

[@yebobaba]

Yeah, I can hear it now: "Mammie, Mammie, how I love ya, How I love ya, My...dear old Mammie".

[@kfgold5194]

Given the nutritional value of bone marrow, one can imagine making a hole while trying to crack open the bone to access marrow, fragmenting it to get it out and then blowing into the bone to dislodge the bits of marrow. This is such a wonderful find. Maybe the accidental flute led to more intentional ones. I wonder if the pleasure of making music influenced brain development in both individuals and evolutionarily.

[@faarsight]

It would be very difficult to accidentally make a hole without breaking the bone. And breaking the bone would be a much better way of getting to the marrow. Plus the hole wouldn't serve any purpose in trying to blow out the marrow. I really doubt you could accidentally make a flute that way.

[@simonphoenix3789]

why would they go through all that effort of drilling a hole, let alone two? they could simply bash a bone with a rock and get the marrow out once it splits.

[@hensonlaura]

About as likely as me falling onto some eggs, flour & milk & getting up with pancakes, or just crepes, that first time! Bone is extremely hard, brittle and has a grain that holds onto itself. Little holes don't just break out of bone, it splinters & shatters. That's why they're dangerous for dogs; can perforate the stomach or bowel. You CAN puncture a tiny hole with care, and work at enlarging it incrementally, as they demonstrate. It would be fiddly, time consuming & there would be failures. No body ever would go after marrow with that technique when they can split bones easily - because they want to break like that, in long shards. Nobody just gets up one day and invents the bone flute. But there are things in nature that are segmented hollow cylinders. Bamboo. Reeds. Pulpy sticks that the middle rots out of, then dries. (Ive seen some in the Ozarks, a few inches long, don't know what plant) Everybody handles & considers materials that come to hand. What kid hasn't discovered they can blow a note on a pop bottle? Over time, refinements are made. Quality materials, that may have great significance, are chosen. If you believe Neanderthals were intelligent & capable of subtle discernment. I do.

[@lopazio]

I believe your comment raises an important issue which is that empty bones should be a very available resource and at the same time it is a probable thing to put in the mouth to extract food: more probable than an empty bambu or other kind of stick used nowadays to make flutes. So it is probable that these beings found out that sound could be produced by blowing on empty cilinders through bones!

[@joyunlimited3493]

I recently saw a very interesting video about music and human evolution, here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHumnaCVf5aWjJI

[@maydavies888]

Musical entertainment plus they could use it as a duck or other animal call. Peruvians also have whistling vessels that mimick different animal calls. This flute has so much versatility... for both calls for hunting and music for entertainment. Nomads travel light, and everything has a multiple function.

[@intercat4907]

Ancestor, thoughtfully: "This thing will make a great doorstop as soon as we invent doors."

[@jesipohl6717]

colonial humans also have duck whistles and things, we can locate the primitive in ourselves just as much as elsewhere. colonial humans made stone tools (flint-starters) by hand well into the 20th century as well. today these can be made with machines, but they are still stone tools. the more things change the more they stay the same. :)

[@HerbertLandei]

Come on, of course they made music with it. If you just wanted to give a signal or just imitate a certain animal sound, the flute would be totally overengineered. You don't cut a bone and drill four holes in it if you don't have to to get what you want. This would be the same as if archeologists in 10000 years found a modern microscope and would speculate that we probably used it to hammer nails in wood.

[@ceder4696]

Why would they make music if music didnt exist in the stone age. African tribes also dont use instruments they only use drums and singing so why would neanderthals use flutes its far fetched and flutes make terrible sounds so why make music out of it.

[@ceder4696]

@@paddor ok fart

[@SeleneSalvatore]

@@ceder4696 This flute mayby was use in death and rebirth ceremonies. It's sound like wind and could sound like bird. Old cave painting show dead person and bird hovering on top of him. Soul fling as bird after death to afterlife is old concept.

[@GermanGreetings]

Bravissimo... Sensationell... Thank you so much for this giant sound from our deepest past ! Thank you !

[@RyanAlexanderBloom]

A natural bugle is a signaling device. As soon as you start putting keys or valves or any other modifications on, it becomes an instrument for making melodic music. Same here. If we can play a tune on a replica now, you know they could back then.

[@penneyburgess5431]

The range of such a small instrument is astounding. How beautiful. Thank you!

[@k.s.k.7721]

I am struck by the thought that this bone flute was an instrument developed over time from the production of other, simpler flutes, so we are seeing and hearing something that had been developed perhaps over hundreds, if not thousands of years and refined. There is a difficult and multi-step process required to construct this instrument, not counting the acquisition of materials and tools. It would require a lot of practice and multiple attempts, while knowing how the end product would work, which speaks to this being part of a long lineage of flutes. The technology and level of training to create and play these flutes would be a talent well worth having, and could indicate a separation of skilled work, with some people being more capable in this area, while others made better throwing spears, etc.

[@susanmyers1899]

Also the people of Australia used a gum leaf to create sound,and they were the ultimate hunter gatherers.Anything is possible if man can think about it,this has been proven over and over.

[@enoch4619]

The problem is western civilization forces you into a box mindset, and the true north of your thought still remains within the box and very few can think without the box

[@RobertSaxy]

Yes but the difference heat is that this was a Neanderthal instrument which goes against the whole primitive uncultured thing

[@altergreenhorn]

@@RobertSaxy Primitive thing is old school view namely, Neanderthal DNA in some homosapien species is responsible for a straight hair, white skin, blue eyes, etc, average member of caucasian or asian tribe have 3-5% of Neanderthal DNA, pure african black people don't have it, wondering which tribe is more primitive

[@helenamcginty4920]

When I was a kid in the UK some millennia ago 🤭 we used to pick leaves off the privet hedges that people had back then and fold them in half to make whistles. I often wonder how many inventions were actually made first by kids messing about.

[@RobertSaxy]

@@altergreenhorn if you take primitive as age then the Neanderthal “tribe” is by far the most primitive but that’s not how that word is used culturally these days and if you watch the video they mention the primitive misconception thing I referenced. Also I believe your using the word “tribe” incorrectly, there are many tribes within geographical populations ( not trying to be harsh about mentioning that so sorry if it comes off that way)

[@comunistas2227]

Neanderthals had a bigger brain size than modern humans, so the fact that people assume that they couldn’t create music just goes to prove that some of us are devolving. Most carry Neanderthal dna

[@Chinaboatman]

Well, you prove that you don't understand evolution: species do not 'devolve' in the way you imply. evolution is not a process of betterment or improvement, it is natural selection for suitability to environment. The 'lowest' living creature as we reckon it is as evolved as any other living creature. Our value judgements are totally subjective and irrelevent.

[@anyascelticcreations]

So hauntingly beautiful. I'm trying not to cry.

[@lufe8773]

Human history and evolution has been distorted by 'experts' claiming something was impossible. The truth is the little we have learned about our ancestors shows how little we actually do know. Why should they be any less able to invent or discover different items for functional or recreational use than us? After all, they had millions of years to do so. Isn't it likely someone or many people just picked up a hollow bone at some point and blew through it and it produced a sound? Maybe it had a hole in the side of it and accidentally found they could change the tone by blocking it then someone else had the idea of making more holes. Imagination is one of the human race's strongest advantages why should it be just confined to modern humans.

[@ceder4696]

They werent humans they where neanderthals

[@lufe8773]

@@ceder4696 mate they were human just another branch of Homo with a common ancestor, actually we all have some or their DNA in us. Which proves Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals interbred have a nice day

[@rubiccube8953]

@@ceder4696 We have more ancestors than we have genes. Yet we share 2 to 3 % of our genes with Neanderthals. Equivalent to a great great great grand parent.

[@ceder4696]

@@lufe8773 homosapien means human neanderthal doesnt mean human have a good day

[@ceder4696]

@@rubiccube8953 no that just means we have allot of neanderthal ancestors not that we have a neanderthal that is a close relative they died out 40 000 years ago. They probably had a religion in wich they believed in a red ochre realm when you die you go to this realm. A neanderthal says: we are drenched in blood we are made from the water but we are a part of the rock and mud so when we die let us be taken to the realm of red ochre.

[@lspthrattan]

Amazing! I've been learning to play fipple flutes lately, and was actually just wondering about the earliest origins of flutes recently. Interesting!

[@esioanniannaho5939]

Mind Blowing. Excellent discovery !

[@TimothyChenAllen]

Also flute blowing! (sorry, it’s a dad joke)

[@tsquare5111]

Love how they think it's a musical instrument and not just a whistle to communicate or use to send signal depending on the tone. But Neanderthal probably had the good life making music and dance.

[@ursarotman5718]

Singing, dancing, playing instruments is something most fundamental for creating human community. Don't underestimate the importance of psychologicalf factors which make us human.

[@davidmizak4642]

It's fascinating material you offer to your audience. Thank you very much for contributing. A heartfelt thanks!

[@lostinpa-dadenduro7555]

If you’ve hunted deer, then you know that a short, loud whistle sound can be used to make the deer “freeze”in place, before shooting.

[@parsaledm]

Neanderthal spirits looking down on the human species for a minute there like, "When are they gonna realize that they are playing it upside down!?"

[@sneeringimperialist6667]

They probably used it to coordinate hunting parties in dense forest. To avoid alerting game the way a voice would. Most animals would dismiss it as birdcalls.

[@ceder4696]

That is one of the most logical explanations so far. Its horrible that people automatically think its an instrument and it will almost be written in the history books in some it already is.

[@samreh6156]

​@@ceder4696It is an instrument. Bird calls and signal whistles can all be done using your fingers and mouth. What kind of a childhood did you have? I literally grew up in forests.

[@kimberlainodriscoll4781]

Something like that could also be used to communicate during hunts. The tone from the flute would carry sound further than a voice.

[@samsmom1491]

I wonder if flutes were a product of drilling a hole in the bone to get to the marrow and the driller tried blowing the marrow out of the end. He/she was probably mesmerized by the sound.

[@jeffreytan2948]

That's a good theory and well within the bounds of possibility. I also like the methodology as it combines the discovery of 3 distinct things at the same time, 1. the music - sound produced by blowing through the bone while trying to get at the marrow, 2. the instrument - the femur bone and 3. the process - the act of blowing. Its a very human like quality - discovery, experimentation, codification and practice.

[@k8eekatt]

When I was in Ashland Oregon they had a model of an eagle Shin Flute made by Neanderthals and it had several holes and the music Professor was able to play quite an evocative and lovely tune in the diatonic scale.

[@Whoishere2333]

Trying to get the marrow out is easy-one wack with a rock cracks the bone. Nobody’s gonna drill (with what, their dremel?) a hole to get marrow out.

[@jeffreytan2948]

@@Whoishere2333 The hole is made after (again just theorizing) you discover that a hollow bone can make a sound when you blow on it. After you know it makes a sound you try to alter that sound by adding holes to it on purpose. (That's where experimentation comes in). Also taking out marrow is harder if you want to preserve the bone for some future use like making tools. In that situation you dont want to whack it or you might end up with bone pieces too small to be of any use. Neanderthals from all intents and purpose have the same cranial capacity as modern humans so I am not about to rule out them having complex decision making skills.

[@jeffreytan2948]

@@Whoishere2333 Thinking about it I do agree with you that the holes were not made to take the marrow out. Rather both ends of the femur were smashed to make a tube and our distant ancestor probably blew on one end of the bone in an attempt to force the marrow out the other. Voila sound came out.

[@davidchase9424]

The first step to learning something new, Is to let go of the knowledge that is wrong. We are obviously wrong about our ancient ancestors.

[@cannibalcrow7524]

The craziest part is a few things we find from ancient history are just that a few things so much has been lost to time and forgotten except for myth and legends

[@adriennefloreen]

So, when the scientists found a flute, they didn't believe it was a flute until they did research, even though it was obvious it was, because they assumed that ancient humans were stupid and slowly evolved to get smarter and were not yet smart enough at that time to make a flute for any reason, especially not to make music. That line of thinking is what literally makes scientists deny then finally re-write history. Can you scientists not see what's obviously right in front of you? Of course ancient humans who were just as intelligent as us also did the things we do.

[@fredceely]

Fascinating. I had taken it for an arrow straightener, but the flute idea seems like a winner. As far as imitating animal sounds, it must be remembered that all music is theft. When we learn to play an instrument today, we begin by imitating what we have heard. If you located a human population that had no music, and had never heard any music, and you gave them an instrument, they would use it to copy sounds that they had heard in nature. Great musicians do push the boundaries of what they have heard, but most of us are content to color within the lines of the music that we know.

[@briang.valentine4311]

The woman's diction is perfect and I was able to understand her. She must be an academic professor.

[@iamric23]

One thing that I have learned over the years is to never, ever believe when a scientist claims to know the beginning of anything. If I had a nickel for every time someone blurted out there findings, I'd be rich.

[@sky.the.infinite]

This made me cry. Thank you.

[@scottpreston5074]

We can all experiment on this by making 3D printed replicas of the Neanderthal flute and playing with them. I'd buy one.

[@wernerboucher2604]

The story of a mysterious caveman kazoo.

[@LIZZIE-lizzie]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👌🏼

[@tyc1Z.Z1]

Neanderthals existed for thousands of years but the view is that they made little progress. While the modern humans have existed for much lesser time & have made plenty progress. Is that possible?

[@Evan490BC]

@@tyc1Z.Z1 Yes! Crocodiles have existed much longer. It has to do with the complexity of their brains.

[@catzkeet4860]

@@tyc1Z.Z1 they created tools, clothing, art and now we know they created music. What more do you want?

[@hundredsroadwerewolf]

@@tyc1Z.Z1 Most traditional cultures cast a wary eye on "progress" and rapid change - generations-deep adaptation to your specific environment is often a much better guarantee of long term survival.

[@echodelta9]

The first flute would have to be a harmonic flute otherwise how to determine what notes are. I can get 10 or more harmonics out of the ones I make. After the early 2000's "flute" which had a "scale" I later saw a discovery older from central Europe with a classic notch and knew this was not a fluke but a flute. It don't need holes to make at least octave fifth fourth or more harmonics. This is the same as brass like a bugle no valves or inventions. Length helps. Look up human thighbone trumpet. This is more like an ocarina. Put in just 3 holes and you got fujara an east European native flute. I'd hate to meet the leggy bird or whatever that could make the fujara more than 2 meters long, though!

[@mafarmerga]

As a biologist I often struggle with what distinguishes humans from other intelligent animals. I usually come down on the idea that it is artistic expression that distinguishes our species.

[@jennifersaar1611]

I don't know about that one. Male bowerbirds collect pretty, colorful things to decorate a structure to attract a mate. They are very particular, and will move carefully picked stones around from one place to another until they're satisfied with how they look. The females then come along and decide which offering is the most appealing.

[@mafarmerga]

@@jennifersaar1611 Yes, I have seen bower birds in the wild. But I am not sure that what they are doing is artistic expression and not what is basically the ancient expression of sexual prowess, a display for reproductive success. If there were no females to see it would Bower birds bother with decorating their bowers?

[@jennifersaar1611]

But wouldn't the female's attraction to the unique arrangement of brightly colored bits of glass and stones indicate she has some form of aesthetic? And that being the case, couldn't the male's attempt to create something visibly pleasing arguably be called art?

[@mafarmerga]

@@jennifersaar1611 I guess my definition of artistic expression does not require an audience or a specific outcome. Artists create regardless of whether others will buy or even appreciate that art.

[@jennifersaar1611]

​@@mafarmerga You're absolutely right, of course. Artists do not need an audience to create art, and art doesn't need to be appreciated (or even liked, for that matter) to be art. But artists often do create with specific goals in mind, and that does not invalidate the creation as artwork. Commercial art is a thing, after all.

[@robertschlesinger1342]

Very interesting and worthwhile video.

[@edwardhanson3664]

Brilliant. Great work. Thank you for sharing.

[@lawerancelanham]

It could have also been used as a means of distant communication, like a smoke cloud. Sound travels pretty well and that tool would offer distinct possibilities. There are people in I think south America that use whistles like that. They just use their mouth, but communicate that way in the hills

[@theobserver9131]

It seems like archeologists biggest challenge is their own prejudice. Seems pretty obvious that the holes were made intentionally and specifically.

[@2bittesla]

I learned from indigenous hunters that certain high pitch sounds will stop an animal in its tracks. It is, potentially, a weapon first. Given the harsh survival conditions of the time, I suggest it did start out as a tool for hunting that evolved to entertain those full bellies afterwards.

[@goldenagenut]

What a neat haunting sound. Imagine playing an instrument created in ancient times by something not human. Wow. One can imagine that sound resonating through some primeval forest.

[@arthurmcbride1235]

They were human though. They interbred with modern people extensively.

[@goldenagenut]

@@arthurmcbride1235 Yes they did interbreed but Neanderthals were a group of 'sub-humans', separate and older than humans/homo sapiens. In any case what an amazing find! Such an eerie sound.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

@@goldenagenut I would say they are human, but if we are talking sciwntifically it would be a hominin? hominid?

[@lwscijunkie]

Concerto De Aranjuez played on a (replica) world's oldest flute!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!

[@elmerkilred159]

The sound woke my cat up out a dead sleep and she had a look of concern on her face.

[@lillithlochwoode788]

The holes, if reconstructed in a way to have 4 plus and a fifth on the back, is a hand a very simple measurment. But i also love the use of covering the ends becuase i did that all the time as a child with recorders.

[@trixter88]

“In Current Anthropology in August 1998, Philip G. Chase and April Nowell confidently stated that the broken ends of the “flute” are a textbook example of carnivore chewing. On the bones, next to the holes, there are even scratches from the teeth. Of course, Ivan Turk is well done for being able to dig through a bone, but why do Neanderthals need such difficulties, if it is much easier to drill holes? As for the melodies blown by someone on the "Neanderthal flute", then you can play it on any bone with holes if you wish. In the same year, another group of researchers published in the journal ANTIQUITY an analysis of damage to the bones of cave bears from Divje Babe and other sites in Slovenia, with the same conclusion: not a flute was found, but a bone gnawed by animals. In particular, it turned out that among the materials of Divje Babe there is another femur of a young bear with two holes of a similar shape and also on the tubular part! But no one tried to pass off this find as a flute, because it is impossible to play it: the bone is closed at both ends. "Fleutologists" were not going to give up. In 2005, the "flute" was subjected to multislice computed tomography. The tomography seemed to confirm that the semicircular marks from the ends of the bone were left from the destroyed holes, so there are still 4 holes! The analysis, according to the authors, showed that damage to the bone by predators occurred already AFTER the holes appeared on it. The holes themselves were made using stone or bone tools... However, a year later, Iain Morley, in the Oxford Archaeological Journal, thoroughly demolished all the arguments of the “flute” supporters. Morley wrote that the Turk himself admits that the "flute" is gnawed. But why did they chew the bone? To profit from nutritious spongy tissue. And before this tissue is removed, the dice cannot be played, since its ends are closed! So, piercing holes in the bones and making a flute out of it only made sense after the carnivores had done their job. And if so, the teeth of the animals did not destroy any holes - after all, these holes did not exist yet. What does it mean? This means that there could not be 5 or 4 holes on the bone - there are only 2 of them. Stories about "Irish melodies" and "diatonic scales" can go on like a forest, as well as all kinds of reconstructions of the flute. As for the theoretical method of making holes: they can probably be obtained by scraping, as Turk proves. But where are the tools suitable for such a purpose? No such tools were found in layer 8. Why fantasize when there is the simplest explanation - a predatory animal? Perhaps it was a cannibal cave bear who decided to profit from the cub. In 2015, Czech researcher Cajus G. Diedrich conducted a rigorous analysis of bear bones with gnawing and holes from 15 European sites. There are many such finds, because the cave bear was a typical prey for predators of glacial Europe - lions, leopards, wolves. However, the spotted hyena, of course, acted as the main "bone-crawler". It was she, says Didrich, who bit into a number of finds that were mistakenly taken by researchers for “flutes” (I remind you that the bone from Divje Babe is far from the first artifact of this kind). Of course, the holes were not left from the fangs of the hyena - she never crushes bones with her fangs - but from her powerful upper premolars, the shape and size of which the holes are ideally suited for. There are also marks on the opposite side of the bone - from the corresponding teeth on the lower jaw. Why are there so many bear bones in the human camp? Probably, a man inhabited the cave of Divje Babe not constantly, but seasonally. This lifestyle is typical of nomadic hunter-gatherer groups. People left - bears came; hyenas visited the bears. It is characteristic that holes from hyena teeth are often located on the bones of cubs, less often on the bones of adolescents, and never on adult bears. The reason is that the bones of the cubs are soft and easily bitten, and the thick bones of large hyena bears were simply split into pieces. Well, if a hyena bites through 200 bones in a row, among this pile there are a couple that look like flutes, just according to probability theory. So, according to Diedrich, hyenas have been producing “pseudo-flutes” for thousands of years in cave bear dens all over Europe. In this chapter, I have mentioned only a small part of the pro et contra "flute" publications. Are the supporters of the Neanderthal pipe, after 20 years, ready to sheathe their swords and admit defeat? I doubt. There will be enough for both sides for another 15 years. Well, outside of science, the myth will live. After all, firstly, “a scientifically proven ancient musical instrument” is a good way to attract tourists to some Eastern European cities. And, secondly, the Neanderthal flutist boy is so cute! For the sake of completeness, I have to mention the REAL stone age bone flutes. These are indeed found, however, they all belong to the Upper Paleolithic and were made by representatives of Homo sapiens. The oldest instrument of this kind, found in Hole Fels (Germany), is more than 35 thousand years old. I note that this time the flute, made from the radius of the griffon vulture, has all the signs of a man-made object. There are 5 holes on it - really holes, and not hints of them (4 are completely preserved, on the 5th the bone is broken off). The end of the flute, which was probably blown, is also decorated. Neat notches are visible next to the holes - the ancient master marked the places where he would cut holes." From an article on the site "22nd century", Alexander Sokolov.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

Thankyou very much for providing more information from a different perspective. Very interesting! That's the problem with these short BBC clips. The information is often incomplete, and therefore misleading.

[@trixter88]

@@daniellamcgee4251 A common problem with videos on this channel is that they deliberately make so-called "beautiful stories" in order to interest a wide audience that is not used to checking facts, but simply believes everything they are told.

[@newgoliard6059]

Both parties are wrong. I live in the hood and recognize this as drug smoking paraphernalia. Clearly, Neanderthals were addicts.

[@NightOwlTX]

Thank you. Is it possible for you make a video with this information?

[@trixter88]

@@NightOwlTX Why make a video if the text fully describes the problem? It lacks only illustrations with the bones found, but in the original cited article (it is in Russian) these pictures are available. I would give a link, but KZbin will probably delete them along with the message.

[@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475]

Obviously this device was constructed through planning. The idea that it made desired sounds, yet WASN'T used to make desired sounds (like music)... is an unsupported notion in need of evidence. This looks "musical" until shown otherwise. You can't pretend evidence away just because your opinion didn't like it.

[@prschuster]

It is unthinkable to believe that Neanderthals didn't speak, sing or dance.

[@vulcanswork]

Love this very much. BTW, compliments to the lady for wearing the traditional lace decoration.

[@wallybartfay56]

Flute found in Witches Cave in Slovakia shows our long connection with music. Beautiful

[@damo780]

What beautiful remarks from the flautist at the end 🙏

[@RobertBeerbohm]

This is amazing. Thank you for sharing

[@walterkoszyk8216]

Love the doc...straight up...

[@Go-zi1py]

Maybe it was formed while the bone was fresh because fresh bones are much softer and easier to cut.

[@Prismatic_Truth]

I'm confused... "It changes our previous flawed, one-sided view of Neanderthals as savage barbarians"... I was taught that the Neanderthals were fairly sophisticated; that they practiced ceremonial burial with flowers, made art, had calendars, played music, etc; and that there was no reason to think of them as anything other than normal human beings. So what is this "view of Neanderthals as savage barbarians" that he's talking about??

[@hatjodelka]

I'm guessing you're not an old person. I'm in my 60s and the savage barbarians idea was the predominant one, that they were unsophisticated and stupid. I've seen many widely-held ideas about prehistory & prehistoric people debunked in my lifetime. We learn more and more about the past & I think it's brilliant!

[@oneshotme]

Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up

[@exJacktar]

I can only imagine if she could go back and play that beautiful song for them, their minds would be blown away.

[@metaspherz]

I can imagine a neanderthal person playing the flute around the hearth on a rainy night entertaining family and friends while they accompany with vocal impressions...a sing-a-long if you will. "Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya!"

[@03Venture]

Hauntingly amazing. Thanks for sharing.

[@jasonfirewalker3595]

"Death makes angels of us all And gives us wings Where we had shoulders Smooth as raven's claws" - Jim

[@Will_CH1]

Amazing to hear its range. Such a range is not necessary for animal calls. Such a range is needed for complex music.

[@glennryzebol4472]

You spelled artifact wrong but this was pretty neat!

[@russellsnyder2634]

I'm glad more people are taking this seriously. It seems to me that holes lined up couldn't have been punctured by teeth and coincidentally tuned to a diatonic tetrachord. How sophisticates would Neanderthals or early Humans have to be to produce this? Trial and error doesn't require a great amount of brain power. They would work on different flutes until they found an arrangement of holes that produced the most pleasing sounds to them. I'm sure they needed this, like they needed speech, because music, like speech, is an identity function.

[@jesipohl6717]

colonial humans don't like to find out that they aren't special. the real bias is not hypothesising that this is an instrument.

[@russellsnyder2634]

@@jesipohl6717 I read an article about this flute back in the late 90s. It was written by a musicologist. That's what got me thinking when he asked what are the odds of this being tuned to a diatonic tetrachord by accident? And, even if those holes were produced by teeth and it did produce a flute tuned diatonically, I'm sure it would be played like a flute and other flutes would be fashioned after it.

[@genericjesus8803]

5:08 wow, they could play “A Feast of Friends’ guitar solo by The Doors (but on that flute. The solo starts 50 seconds into the song)

[@donlitos]

Horsefiddles! These so called Neanderthal tunes are better than most of today's rap music!

[@nmarbletoe8210]

og say this not every day rap song

[@hansmoser989]

for me as a string-musician but still a fan of blasting instruments, like flutes or didgeridoos, it was clear the stringed ones comes later, cause their construction is much more complex. ntw, both of them are necessary for a healthy human mind, cause frequencies are there for good. h.m.

[@ryo0ka936]

The fact that many scientists believe that Neanderthals vocal capability is limited further strengthens the idea that they sang, danced and played music.

[@joelryan5300]

Birds make music. Early humans heard birds. It’s definitely a musical instrument.

[@einienj3281]

We always give too little credit to our ancestors, so them trying to diss our cousin ancestors isn't a surprise.. I think they were a lot more capable than some people I have the displeasure of dealing with..

[@nmarbletoe8210]

Dua Lipa likes this comment :)

[@macrumpton]

What a surprise! Modern humanoids underestimate the intelligence of another creature. The whole history of science is a continuous finding that animals/early humans/birds/fish/whales are far more intelligent and sophisticated than we ever thought.

[@susanmyers1899]

If they could paint such.fantastic animals on cave roofs,they could easily create such an instrument.

[@agnelomascarenhas8990]

Those cave paintings are by Modern humans and date 50,000 years or less. The oldest are about 43,000 years old.

[@susanmyers1899]

@@agnelomascarenhas8990 they are finding that many things are much older than previously thought.

[@greenman6141]

I think that just like with people today, there would have been some members of the group who found they had particular skill with making music, some were good at performing it, some were better at making the flute, and all of them loved loved loved being able to hear beautiful sounds. Just like happens today, and has happened for ages. I do understand that using a carefully reasoned approach is correct for those who dedicate their lives to study and understanding of our ancestors. And if they just blabbed out things like what I wrote above, they'd be, rightfully, laughed out of their jobs. But I'm delighted to know that people so long ago were able to enjoy music. If one thinks about how huge the music "industry" is, how globe-wide the love and fascination w/music is - it is such a powerful innate feeling.

[@davidwilkie9551]

Mimicking is standard child development and experimentation with whatever comes to hand. Caves are Auditoriums, naturally.

[@rubiccube8953]

Reverberation chambers which cover bad notes like singing in the shower.

[@stevengreen9536]

Truly fascinating i had no idea neanderthals were capable of making a musical instrument.

[@kmac2650]

New Zealand Maori use bone flute. Melancholy sound.

[@smkh2890]

When Ugg first beat on a log, Jazz was born.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

This likely would have been used to either attract birds to hunt or to signal to other group members during a hunt or battle.In other words,I personally don't believe it was created solely for music,but this could be one way music began.

[@edwardhanson3664]

Or it could be to play love songs.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

@@edwardhanson3664 likely more for survival if u study Neanderthals regularly,as the info keeps changing.At some point,yes,but I would rather be interested in which birds this instrument might have sounded close to at the time and region.

[@mikes5637]

Kinda blows my mind that the discovery of music may have been by accident, a byproduct of a tool used for communication in a hunt.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

@@mikes5637 It makes sense.Animals were making music - at least birds - long before humans.Nature is a great inspiration to artists of all kinds even today,obviously.

[@LIZZIE-lizzie]

Since there were hollow objects found, man blew t in them. Some had holes in them and noises were heard. Since the beginning of time whistles were used as communication and calling animals and people. There was initially no real physics involved. Nor much of a thought process.

[@intercat4907]

My personal bet is that the first person who got noise out of a perforated bone was an 8-year-old male horsing around ... and that he was told firmly to take that darned thing well away from his mother, whom he was driving nuts. We need to give a nod here to the fact that the discovery could be a thoughtless act by a thinking creative person, and that his mother's responses could have been completely human.

[@georgepretnick4460]

I suspect the artifact in hand is not the complete instrument. There most likely was damage and material loss over the millennia. Whoever made this flute, they had prior knowledge of how to make a flute. This isn't the first flute ever made.

[@allstarwatt7246]

and how do you know this?

[@georgepretnick4460]

@@allstarwatt7246 my post started with "I suspect ". Not "know.". Why do I suspect? 1) It's a partial leg bone. 2) The maker, having some prior skills, most likely chose an entire leg bone, not a broken fragment. 3) both ends of the flute are jagged. Any maker capable of such precise and uniform drilled holes would also be capable of uniform ends. Skills like this don't just suddenly arise in an individual maker. Either the maker had been developing the skills over time or these skills were culturally established. As I posted, this ain't the first flute.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

A friendly reminder to ignore/ report the spam bots with links. :-)

[@donwalsh9426]

More proof that these people had a heart and soul.

[@wilfredoriverajr.]

i think i like to think it was a call of some sort, dramatic to imagine someone putting it down long ago then someone picking it up in an epic time lapse

[@ijunkie]

@6:00 playing Bach Adagio on a 60.000 year old flute replica; now I've seen everything.

[@aaronmclaughlin4745]

Neanderthal was human. They have descendants alive today.

[@kaelthunderhoof5619]

I bet the first discovery was. A random cave man sucking the marrow out of that bone then made an interesting sound.

[@georgemartinez7015]

This flute is the sophisticated development of years of experimentation of 1000's of years earlier. I now imagine them having great gatherings/parties with flutes, drums, strings, songs and dancing passing down tribal traditions. Quite amazing.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

yes this one object means thousands of years of parties! old style banjo on the porch get downs

[@RobertSaxy]

I love that they put the ewi up there

[@briankleinschmidt3664]

The instrument was likely handed down for many generations before it was lost. Can you measure the wear patterns and determine how much it's been blown through?

[@fantasyflare]

I think we should assume that this is not the earliest instrument and that organic materials would have been thoroughly explored and used much further back then we have evidence for. It's possible this was a tool for communication, hunting alerts, though I do believe, as suggested, that it was a musical instrument.

[@michaelfritts6249]

Very interesting! What is more amazing to me than that our "cousins" made music is that it took a musician/archeologist to blow through the end that waa shaped like a reed to see how it was most likely used. I can almost see a Far Side with Thag shaking his head as a bunch of scientists blow into the bell of a trumpet. Love the discovery!! Our family tree wouldn't make sense if we assumed brute to brainiac in one recent evolutionary twist.

[@donaldhoult7713]

@Michael Fritts. But it suits those ho believe the African myth!

[@michaelfritts6249]

@@donaldhoult7713 what myth? Please explain..

[@campbellpaul]

Twenty years from now they will discover the archeologist planted the bone in the dig, by golly.