The Advantage of Being a Small Forest Landowner

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

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[@AkumaQiu]

Do you need help cutting logs this summer?

[@DanielPeaster]

Thanks so much for the great video and free ebook I will be reading it! I have 100acres in northern Maine that I’m hoping to do a harvest on in the next couple years.

[@royguidry1311]

Bra, your brain and the flow of functional knowledge of economics and the forestry industry is a redwood my friend. I have had 1000 discussions with landowners, mill workers and managers as well as loggers, truckers and large equipment operators and not one has even remotely come close to making a whole picture scenario of the industry like you have in this a d the risk assessment video. Great job. I live in Northern Maine but I buy land in a pile of states. Love the ghost train example. All you ever hear people say about them is " How the hell did these get here? Noone knows or cares about the lessons those trains teach us. Bravo.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

Thanks, that's a huge compliment!

[@richardanderson2742]

One aspect of the small operation that needs legislative action in many states is the prohibition on using ungraded lumber in residential construction. Now many of us ignore it when working for ourselves, but it is a law that really limits the possibilities of custom milling.

[@chadcowan6912]

Ignoring the red tape is the only way to get anything done in this country. For every new law or tax created another should be abolished. That would be a good way to manage the political swamp.

[@yonmusak]

As a European based small forest owner I found this to be a very interesting discussion. Thanks so much for putting the effort in to explain the North American context. Subscribed

[@GE-tv1is]

I can assure you, price per acre bottoms out in the 100-500 acre range, and goes back up over the 1000-5000 acre range and become pretty constant relative to site class above 5000 acres, as large commercial lumber companies compete for those tracts when they come up for sale. And as for replanting, realize we have high graded tracks for as long as civilization has been there 250 years for parts of the east coast, and 150 years on the west coast and degraded the genetics present in the process. Replanted trees that have been developed through the Forest service, USDA & private industry Co -op project that started in the 1930, will grow 10-25% faster growth than the genetics that are left on a tract that has been selectively harvest 2-5 times.

[@AkumaQiu]

I'm so glad I found this channel. I just bought my first 100 acres in the PNW, and hope to add 40 more adjacent in the near future. Looking forward to watching all your vids

[@prizecowproductions]

Like your thinking as a community we can produce local economic prosperity as the clients come to us. Aussie Jeff Moore

[@ricksanchez7459]

Great presentation. Bigger is not always better. There was a small logging outfit on here that uses horses and they seem very happy not having all the overhead and stress. Landowners seek them out because they're small.

[@Debbie-henri]

I took know a small, horse-powered forestry industry in my neighbourhood. They're perfectly content working small scale on their own bit of forest, which isn't at all large. Maybe 20-25 acres. And then they take their horses and portable sawmill to other small privately owned woodlands.

[@vidard9863]

The set up costs would be significantly lower, probably the only way to harvest smaller and more difficult lots economically. Provided that you didn't want to become a tycoon it's probably a fairly solid business model.

[@esbrasill]

I just planted 2.5 acres of trees in Brasil.

[@brettdarken5773]

great fun. thank you. keen to learn more about the mini sawmill/TVI friend you have in Maine. It's also possible to add capital gear in a step by step process (planer, kiln, shaper...)Using local talent/resources;...Thanks for the upload!

[@nathanflach1039]

Wow! I love your channel. I’ve watched thousands of hours of KZbin over the years, and this is my first comment. I’ve watched some of your videos and am grateful for your novel, scientific, yet still artful, discussion on all these issues…if that makes sense. I bought 50 acres in East Texas about a year ago. I’m in a totally different profession, but I really enjoy your content. I’m just trying to digest it and process it all. Thank you sir!

[@CIemCon]

Your vision of the future is very compelling and I hope others join in! Land ownership seems far away for me right now, but I've enjoyed your other videos and the book and will practice measurements in the woods nearby

[@jakebredthauer5100]

40 acre parcels of land in the Missouri Ozarks sell for $5,000 per acre. Typically it is not managed for timber production and all they get from it is a few deer. I don't understand it. No one is ever going to build on all of that land. They can get some timber. I have been told that it is in the family for a long time and that is why they hold it.

[@willhartman300]

Start looking at probate lists, tax sales, and withdrawn tax sales. If there's a breakpoint in the "family" cultural model of land holding, you'll find more motivation immediately after the passing of a property owner, or bankruptcy (the trustee will sell at a discount to get it off the books/lighten his workload), and of course tax sales. Approach owners who have a reason to sell and you'll do much better, in my opinion.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@willhartman300 I am expecting a depression because of bad US monetary policy in 1913. There is no limit on how many Federal Reserve Notes can be created.

[@billywalker9223]

The astronomical land prices boggle my mind. I have close to 400 acres of my great great grandfather's farm. I had to buy it out a couple of years ago for $707 an acre. The timber is worth 4 times that. If it was bare it wouldn't be worth a dime.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@billywalker9223 Do you have an example of an astronomical land price?

[@RedondoBeach2]

@@billywalker9223 What kind of trees are on the land? Approximately how old are the trees? Do you cut down mature trees for the lumber and plant new trees? What would you say are your top challenges or concerns with the land and trees? I have at times thought about buying land and planting walnut trees. I would personally never gain from it at my age, it's the type of investment that would be nice to pass down to future generations.

[@kurtlanford1448]

Great presentation ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge !

[@edhuber3557]

The upturn end of the LRAC curve is suspect (for me). If scale really was too large then you'd split it to stay close to the min marginal cost.

[@jjohnston7837]

The stand is a variable cost. If you sell more lemonade, overhead is reduced. Lemons are a fixed cost, they cost the same amount with every glass sold, unless you're able to buy in volume at a discount.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

No, you have that wrong. Fixed and variable costs refer to nominal costs, not normalized on a per unit basis. You only have to buy the stand once, so its fixed. The expense of lemons will always increase with production, even if the per unit cost goes down, so it is variable.

[@jjohnston7837]

@@thetimberlandinvestor No, you have that completely backwards. A fixed cost is the same no matter how many units are produced. The raw ingredients will be the same on every unit. A variable cost is one that can be divided among all units produced. If you produce one glass of lemonade, the total cost of the stand+ is the overhead for that glass. If you produce two glasses of lemonade, the cost of the stand, per glass, is reduced by half. That's a variable cost per unit. The price of the lemon is the same on every glass produced. That's a fixed cost per unit.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

No, it has nothing to do with per unit cost. It's all about nominal cashflow. You can google this pretty easily.

[@jjohnston7837]

@@thetimberlandinvestor Okay, per unit of cash flow. The larger the cash flow, and the longer the flow, the smaller the cost of the capital investment. There's nothing "fixed" about it. If you leave the machine idle, and produce no cash flow, the cost is fixed at 100%. As you produce income, the cost is proportionally reduced with each additional dollar. This cost is only fixed if you never use the machine.

[@jjohnston7837]

Fuel would be a fixed cost, if the price doesn't change.

[@willbass2869]

One issue forestry as seen in the Ozarks since the boom in small band saw mills is the ever decreasing size of saw logs. More guys trying to have sideline milling businesses have actually hurt forest growth. Trees being cut way too early.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

100%, but its an issue that isn't unique to the small guys or the boom in sawmills. since the 90s or so, the industry at large has found markets for what were previously unmerchantable stems of wood through chips, biomass, and the increasing efficiency of older technologies. While these new markets aren't inherently bad (and can greatly enhance proper management), they have certainly enabled poor management practices as well.

[@12vsawmillstuff]

Well done. I fall into the category of small vertically integrated land owner/producer. We have just over 200 acres that we log with an old tj skidder with a tractor on the landing for sorting. The logs either go through our small firewood processor or our sawmill. Since our land doesn't produce enough sustainably harvester saw logs, we purchase logs from neighbours who hire us to log their lots with our equipment. Recently I have been evaluating the possibility of purchasing additional lots to harvest saw logs and firewood for our needs. I'm not the type to simply cut everything in sight as I'd rather leave the woodlot in a better state than it was when I first acquired it; we are only here for a short period of time while the land will still be there after we are gone. I would interested in your thoughts on what to look for in purchasing a woodlot when you are your own logger/woodmass transformer. cheers

[@rochrich1223]

One powerful advantage is payroll taxes, yes, payroll taxes! Last time I managed a payroll, it cost $1.44 in taxes and mandatory insurances per nominal pay dollar. The employees got approx $.82 per nom dollar. So a $15/hr employee that required 1/10th of a manager each cost aprox $30/hr while taking home $10ish! Work for yourself at half that speed w/o a manager, and your take home will be more than approx 2/3s of US workers!

[@jpatt5054]

Whats thr minimum a landowner should invest in yo have these goals

[@nhmountains5683]

Good job. My experience with the modern equipment was what you said. What size wood lot would you say would be the minimum acreage or board feet before a logger with modern equipment would want to cut?

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

It's complicated to say. With modern machinery, one of the largest costs to starting the operation is transportation, so if equipment had to be moved far, that minimum might be 40 acres. But if they had a job right close by and the wood was decent, they might do 10. But with older equipment like cable skidders that don't require a whole fleet of machinery, I've heard of people getting a logger for only a truckload of wood.

[@daveb3910]

Thank you

[@patdenney7046]

I watched Red Emerson start out very small! The timber used to be more valuable than the land.

[@fatcapital88]

Great video

[@Josh1888USU]

So how long did you work for Weyerhaeuser?

[@chrisdroullard8344]

I just bought 32 acres in Stetson, ME with large beautiful white pines that have never been cut. Looking to have it selective cut. What would you recommend I plant for that area of the region after I have it cut? Been enjoying your videos!

[@jakebredthauer5100]

I would say look to see what tree species are in demand and then see if you can supply that demand. For example, is there a shortage of softwoods or is there a shortage of hardwoods? You may want to produce whatever grows the best and plan on exporting it.

[@northerncaptain855]

Typically in that part of Maine, for parcels of that size, replanting is not necessary and rarely done. The forest regenerates/seeds itself and if anything the new growth may benefit with thinning. There are plenty of good foresters who will help with your decisions and probably save you money in the long run.

[@lentilreflection2676]

good stuff

[@jwstanley2645]

Ever heard of agroforestry?

[@mortenbaun5812]

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