The Amazing Biogeography of Caves

[@noahsonju1272]

caves and cliffs update was crazy

[@Rich79]

Minecraft reference

[@PKSE]

yeah best minecraft update

[@sizanogreen9900]

Truly mindblowing in comparison to the generation before. I mean just the damn size of things (X_X)

[@davidec.4021]

Lmao great and true comment

[@ali.___..mrlegendman]

​@@Rich79yeah

[@djtfot]

I remember in an Anthropology class back in college the professor explained that species don't lose something over time because they're not using it, they lose it because it's a detriment to them in their new environment. As such, his example was that cave fish don't lose their eyesight or eyes over the course of evolution because they're not using it anymore, they likely lose it because their eyes can become a source of infection in the cave environment, so they have an advantage if they lose that source of infection. Just an interesting note.

[@TheBrewster320]

Another way to look at it, which is probably more likely in most cases, it’s a waste of resources investing in eyes. They’re not losing it so much because they don’t use it, but because they don’t use it it’s not worth investing energy into those organs. So the animals who have less developed eyes are better utilizing their energy demands and have a competitive edge over animals who are putting energy into their eyes, so then it becomes a selective pressure to reduce the eyes.

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

Precisely ​@@TheBrewster320

[@Mathis218337]

Waste of energy to grow eyes too

[@rathalos1522]

I am afraid your professor was wrong there: simply not beneficial (unused) traits certainly can and have disappeared due to genetic drift.

[@eslnoob191]

Yeah, getting eye infections may have resulted in some individuals being removed from the gene pool before they could breed, but it's probably only one small part of the picture. In other environments, if a salamander didn't have eyes (to see and catch prey), it would starve. In a cave, eyes are useless in finding prey, and thus evolution will not select for the development of eyes in a cave environment. If any animals still have eyes, it's just a vestigial feature. Also, there is sexual selection. If all the animals are blind, they won't care about what their mate looks like. That's one reason why you see some pretty freaky looking animals in pitch black environments, like the deep ocean, whereas you'll see beautiful birds in bright, colorful rainforest environments. @@rathalos1522

[@soft.callus]

My favorite thing about your videos is that you start with simple questions, such as why dont mammals live in caves, and then ask further questions that build into an interpretation of more abstract topics, with insights that are not apparent on surface level.

[@josephrion3514]

I know surface level wasn't a joke. But I like to imagine it was. Otherwise very insightful comment.

[@thearchivist3610]

@@josephrion3514AAAAAA b by NU and

[@DBT1007]

That's normal way of rationality 😅

[@bensear]

Most mammals, bats will quite happily live in caves.

[@bigbird772]

Cavemen.

[@TheBrewster320]

As a note for why salamanders seems to excel at cave life where other ectotherms have not, salamanders actually prefer cooler temperatures overall as a group. It’s why they’ve more or less have been excluded from the tropics and even where they’re native you’re often hard pressed to find them in the hottest months of the year. Many species actually prefer temperatures in the 50s-60s F. As someone who works with captive species, I even have to be careful temperatures don’t get too high above 70F or else you risk them overheating. I think this preferred temperature zones has made them well suited to cave life. They prefer wet and moist dark habitats as you mentioned, they are ectothermic so they don’t have high energy needs as you mentioned, but also they operate at cooler temperatures than other ectotherms, such as reptiles. Because of this they just set up well to quickly adapt to cave life. Now, there are some reptiles who do prefer cooler temperatures, such as a genus of Asian geckos, Goniurosaurus, who are collectively referred to as “cave geckos”. Despite being called cave geckos, they’re more so just visitors to caves. Possibly they’re on the way to evolving in that direction, but I think a fact with reptiles is they have to evolve to be more tolerant of constant cool temperatures compared to salamanders who that’s already their ancestral condition, so they’re just in a better position to take over the niche quickly.

[@user-nz6ug4ru8f]

❤quality answer.

[@kacperkubicki1101]

This makes so much sense, I was wondering why there are no cave turtles, as they are also ectothermic and amphibious so in theory they could fit in this particular niche, but if they prefer warmer temperatures than salamanders, it factors them out.

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

I wonder why there are no cave frogs though or cave caecilians for that matter

[@TheBrewster320]

@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Caecilians biogeography I don’t think lines up well with where most cave systems are as presented in the video, but also we don’t know enough about them as a group anyways. I would not be surprised in the slightest if a cave dwelling species eventually was found in a cave system in the tropics. I think they’re arguably even more well adapted for caves than salamanders (other than cold tolerance, but probably isn’t an issue in tropical cave systems). As for frogs, compared to salamanders, frogs are much more visually based hunters with the exception of fully aquatic species. Salamanders can be visual hunters but many, especially aquatic salamanders, are far more dependent on scent, though aquatic frogs are also scent driven. My guess though is being so sight oriented it may play a factor. Also, the aquatic lineages I’m aware of may fall into the same case as the caecilians. Off the top of my head I thinking mostly southern African and South America for fully aquatic species who would probably adapt well to cave life… if they had access to said caves.

[@jgr7487]

Another point in favour of salamanders is that all highly specialised cave species are extremely neotenous, which adaptations are found in aquatic salamanders such as the axolotl. For other animals to reach their level of energy efficiency, they would have to change even more drastically. Cave salamanders look the most like the earliest amphibians that walked on land.

[@coopernoble6139]

Another thing to consider is that the water level in caves fluctuates frequently, occasionally fully inundating the system. All other animals would drown, even other amphibians like frogs. This also contributes to making the niche more favorable to salamanders.

[@rianfelis3156]

Agreed. Also most of these cave systems seem connected only by underwater sections, so any animal that can't go through long periods of time underwater will have a much smaller area to colonize, making a breeding population much harder to maintain. Salamanders, by being aquatic with high tolerance for damp areas, seem uniquely suited to many cave systems. The area that really intrigues me though is southeast Asia, which has both some salamanders and a lot of karst terrain, including some of the world's largest caves.

[@coopernoble6139]

@@rianfelis3156 exactly. The Edwards aquifer is a great example. HUGE water table with extensive fully submerged passages too small for most large fish species, but passable to the usually skinnier salamanders.

[@coopernoble6139]

@@rianfelis3156 the existence of Giant Salamander species in China and Japan has it’s own exceptionally interesting possibilities too. Imagine… a subterranean morph would probably have to be smaller, but it could still be quite large.

[@bugjams]

What a simple yet brilliant answer... simply asking "what kind of animal could get through an underwater passage?" solves a lot of the mysteries about why there aren't mammals or frogs.

[@Bruno-lo8oc]

Your comment made me think that maybe that's why we see every completely adapted cave salamander retain their gills (the little feathery things on the side of their heads) It varies from one species to another but as far as I know most salamanders are born as little tadpole-like larvae who have these gills up until their adulthood, where they lose those gills and develop lungs (meaning they can drown underwater) And since caves can get completely flooded it would be much better for the individual to just keep the gills on throughout their whole lives For example at 11:51 you can see that this species which is in the process of becoming fully cave dwelling hasn't yet evolved to keep the gills on their adulthood But the fully cave dwelling species like the ones at 16:27 do seem to keep their gills

[@pablorey9203]

In Eastern Europe (Romania?) there is a cave that was completely isolated for entire eras. There are no bats, no energy input from the outside, the energy comes from a chemical reaction, which I don't remember, but it was from the minerals in the cave. There are spiders and I think fish... all highly evolved. If you find reliable data on this cave (or cave system) it would make for a very interesting video.

[@kennethschick4304]

I looked it up! Movile cave in Romania! The ecosystem is based on chemosynthesis and similar caves exist in Palestine, Italy, Greece, Iran, the United States, Mexico, and areas in the Caucasus!

[@pablorey9203]

@@kennethschick4304 great job! If there are more... more chances for a video in this channel! BTW: thank you

[@geraldmiller0896]

@@kennethschick4304 Nice pull. Apparently methanotrophs convert methane there into the carbon nutrients. I wasn't able to find what converts the high CO2 (100x atmospheric level) to O or how O incorporates into nutrients.

[@divaagarpavalakumar6714]

​@@pablorey9203wgwzwz4,qc1cF1Cfex:_hfyv2mwcYv52-I5crc:

[@amandathurston2720]

There’s things like this in deep ocean geothermal vents too , and cold seeps

[@Intelligenthumour]

There are also lava tube caves, iirc Hawaii has some cave critters(like a type of shrimp) that dwell in those.

[@sizanogreen9900]

True. Also I wonder how the whole biogeography of caves looks like if they are connected to the ocean instead, like the huge network under the yucatan.

[@Intelligenthumour]

@@sizanogreen9900 From what I've seen and heard about caves in the Bahamas there can be sponges at the Oceanic inlets that go a far bit into the cave systems and the salinity of the caves changes depending on your proximity to inland versus oceanic inlets. I know that's a similar case here in Florida and that also when these caves do connect with the oceans then they experience shifts in current linked to the tides.

[@sizanogreen9900]

@@Intelligenthumour It really is interesting. I recall it being mentioned in some documentaries that sometimes fishes and turtles wander into those dark caverns. While some are more native there. Pretty much like it is on land, but just with a different cast of animals and maybe niches. I'd like to see that explored as well, but I guess such aquatic caves are even less understood than terrestrial ones...

[@Intelligenthumour]

@@sizanogreen9900 I'd absolutely love to see more exploration of cave biomes. You might be interested in reading up on Movile cave too. It's a cave in Romania that was sealed ages ago and developed a chemotrophic biosphere. It holds animal refuges that have been there since long before the last ice age. It isn't quite the kind of cave you're talking about but it's incredibly interesting. I've had ideas about soft robot based ROVs, a kind of infra-red based trail cam(some materials are opaque to visible light but transparent to infra-red light so it'd be easy to place these with a dull infra-red light source and record animals passing by without interfering with them) and also about the disappearing lake in Oregon known as "Lost Lake" which has lava tubes at its base that drain it when it fills up with melt water. That cave system may very well have lots of undiscovered troglobites that thrive off of the debris carried down the lava tubes.

[@SerDerpish]

Lava tubes are essentially cave starter kits. They are too new to be anything of interest to a biologist since they don’t have any unique features yet

[@JKTCGMV13]

Imagine this. A species of cave dwellers pass down stories of the caves that include descriptions of how tight and narrow the passages are, but because of erosion the passages have become less narrow, and it makes the people think they’re getting smaller over generations

[@thedoomofred5174]

What of mineral deposition

[@somethingforsenro]

@@thedoomofred5174that would mostly happen underwater, so unless they're aquatic, they would likely never know about that

[@robertosalazar3255]

What if one challenges the belief of everyone getting smaller and the exile him and generations later they see he was right 😂

[@SamLawrence-kc4vt]

@@robertosalazar3255 galileo type situation

[@chistinelane]

That's Actually pretty funny

[@sizanogreen9900]

Great video, just one tiny correction. Karst is not the only geology that forms caves. At the very least there are also lava tubes and stuff.

[@SerDerpish]

Yeah but lava tubes are featureless corridors without vegetation or any other life. Anything that may be found there is using it as temporary shelter so they aren’t really relevant to the topic

[@sizanogreen9900]

@@SerDerpish I don't know about that one. I recall having watched documentaries where they delved into the lava tubes of hawaii and found some rather unique insects at least. Has been years tho so as I said, I'm not sure about that one.

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

​@sizanogreen9900 they meant typically, because Hawaii is already rather unique as an environment due to it being a volcanic island chain, which leads to caves being distinct in this.

[@sizanogreen9900]

@@mrhalfsaid1389 don't you mean because it is a massive shield vulcano created by a hotspot? There are other vulcanic island chains after all, most less unique than hawaii is,

[@BackYardScience2000]

Caves can form anywhere given enough time. And any cave, no matter the type of rock that it's in, can harbor life. It doesn't matter that karst terrain is the most likely place to find caves. That's like saying McDonald's has all the burgers when other places make them too. It makes no sense. And many lava tubes harbor life and they can last a long time, giving plenty of time for creatures to inhabit them and adapt to their environment. Take for example the planthoppers, millipedes, spiders, bats, etc that inhabit many lava tubes and that have adapted to the environment. They even have bugs named after the lava tubes that they inhabit. The lava tube beetle, for example. Lava tubes are also not featureless corridors. That's far from the truth and lava tubes are certainly very relevant to the topic due to all of this. I highly recommend researching subjects before spouting false information about them. Sizanogreen9900 is right....

[@icewink7100]

Wow, as someone from the Southern US, I had no idea how unique this region is for salamander diversity! I mean, I knew that the Smoky Mountains have the highest salamander diversity, but I would have expected the rest of the region to have a similar numbers to the rest of the world. Thanks for this great video!

[@luhs6839]

Its kind of amazing. Worldwide there are nine taxonomic families of salamanders, of which eight can be found in the SE United States!

[@An-kw3ec]

The Us has the biggest diversity in temperate plants and animals, which are usually not as diverse as tropical.

[@cgarriott]

I didn't know either until I went to uni for ecology and started working on amphibian research! It's honestly so fascinating, and now I hope to do my master's thesis on cave salamanders

[@JENKEM1000]

Go back to Church leroy

[@joshuagcwong734]

I wrote an essay on this in my second year of university and fell in love with these kinds of animals. The Congo River and Lake Baikal in Russia host analogous species to troglobionts too, as these bodies of water are so deep that light does not reach the bottom of them.

[@martonlerant5672]

So lake baikal depths are more analogous to cave ecosystemy, than to hafal and abyssal regions of oceans?

[@MCLegoboy]

It probably doesn't count, or they're still working their way toward it, but there are yellow-red rat snakes that hang from the top of the Kantemó Bat Cave in Mexico, and they snatch the bats right out of the air. It even has the nickname of the Cave of the Hanging Serpents. I have no clue how they really stay in the cracks of the ceiling or how they even reproduce and stay off the cave floor save for a few ledges on the walls, but supposedly they've already gone blind (still have eyes though) and live their whole lives in these caves because there really is no need to leave. They know exactly when the bats are about to depart for the night, get into position just hanging down, and when they feel a breeze close enough, they can just snatch the bats right out of the air. I wouldn't be surprised if the younger snakes feed on bugs and anything else that wonders in until they're old enough to start hanging from above, so this could be contention for your Salemander only apex predator theory.

[@jasonreed7522]

I think a notable difference is the snakes are preying on something that participates in the outside food chain, as opposed to salamanders preying on something that comes from the cave food chain. Theoretically the cave foodchain could start with chemo synthetic microbes that eat rocks/minerals for energy similar to deep sea vents. Don't know if the distinction matters, but i feel it should atleast be mentioned.

[@bugjams]

Frankly, that sounds terrifying 😅 I'm already scared of caves and snakes (even though I know most are friendly), a cave full of snakes is just about my worst fear

[@StumpfForFreedom]

​@@bugjamsI wouldn't say most snakes are "friendly" just "non threatening".

[@monarcal8365]

I doubt it’s “feel the breeze” a lot of snakes can actually taste heat signatures. So they in a way can “see” them coming

[@matthewwhiteside4619]

3:45 just want to say that we pronounce it "Nulla-bore" in Australia, but looking at the way it's spelled, you're probably right that it was meant to be "Null Arbor", or "No Trees".

[@robo-birdie2248]

Ever heard of the Abanda Cave Crocodile from Gabon? It's a population African Dwarf Crocodile that became isolated thousands of years ago. It has orange skin and along with eating bats and invertebrates lives off tons of algae.

[@hemipenes_rvt]

I was going to mention them if someone hadn't yet

[@bee_png]

omg i literally just mentioned them in my reply! they have got to be one of the coolest animals in the world!!

[@DwreckJ]

“In the deep glens where they live, all things are older than man, and they hum of mystery.” The end of ‘The Road’, McCarthy, and one of my all time favorite quotes.

[@Paleo_Curious]

Well that seems like a good quote

[@Paleo_Curious]

I just wanted to mention that despite him saying that all the apexes in the cave environments are usually salamanders .In India some fishes of the family usually known as the mahseer family have taken that role in some of our caves like "Neolissochilus pnar " in Siju caves of Faro hills in the northeast India state of Meghalaya

[@Harrebs]

Caving isnt for everyone but its something you have to experience even if its very open.

[@sizanogreen9900]

just visiting secured and visitor prepared caves is already pretty damn impressive.

[@CaptCKernel]

Truly a harrowing experience, how quickly everything changes just a couple feet down and in really makes you think about our ancestors and their journeys out

[@analyticsjun]

Did you just missed the chance of using the work sepelunking when you could actually used it in a real sentence

[@jakel2837]

I'm not exactly claustrophobic, but I don't like spaces tight enough to restrict movement. That being said, some of the coolest places I've seen in the US have been the sections of caves open enough to run tours. It's nice because it's a bit of a tourist trap, but doesn't feel like it because you're experiencing nature. More like going through a national park than a wax museum

[@TocsTheWanderer]

​@@analyticsjunElitists view spelunking as a term that only newbies to the hobby use. Not everyone that calls it caving is an elitist, but the amount of mockery that people get for saying spelunking has lead to caving being the more popular term. Use whatever term you like though, spelunk just comes from the Greek word for cave, so both accurately describe the hobby.

[@talong1588]

Troglomander sounds like a pokemon

[@AtlasPro1]

make it catch on!

[@thefolder3086]

@@AtlasPro1Atlas pro! Sorry for being a bit too late but I have something interesting I’ve found that you might be interested in I’m the guy who suggested the flightless antsrctic island moth to you a while ago. However, since then I’ve learned that apparently this convergently happens in multiple different species like different types of wasps and midges as well. Even Darwin himself has mentioned this and he hypothesized that it’s impossible for the insects to fly due to the harsh winds, but new research shows it’s possible but quite costly energy wise. Compound this with island effect making insect have less of a need for flight and here you get some flightless insects. There are still predators for insects tho, being birds, thus some have retain their ancestral stingers and some species of wasp even have a flying male and flightless female where the male carry her to flowers to drink nectar as she produce eggs. It’s fascinating! Antarctic islands can also be a good way to either semi-sum up or revive your island series as well.

[@thefolder3086]

⁠@@AtlasPro1 atlas pro, pls read this. I just finished the video and I have a lot I really really wanna talk to you about, that might change how you view this episode entirely. As a long time fan of the channel, I don’t wanna use this word, but this video is biased, I’m sure by accident. Your premise is based only on one thing, that there previously mentioned fish and invertebrates cannot be effective apex predators in caves. However, that’s clearly not true and these creatures have replaced the niche of the salamander multiple times across the world. The megalaya cave fish(Neolissochilus pnar) discovered in 2019 in India is by far the LARGEST cave fish if not the largest troglodytes ever discovered, WAYYYY BIGGER than an olm, and they are carnivorous, eating otehr cave fish and cave insects. In other caves, some has air and water conditions that are toxic to salamanders, species like cave centipede have come to fill this niche. In Thailand where I live there are climbing cave fish that can scale waterfalls to snatch food particles and maybe potentially prey, just like a salamander. Your research is well done but please consider factors that might not be ecological, but artificial, as well. as for why there are no cave salamanders where the permafrosts exist, permafrosts means the soil is always frozen. Caves rely on external organic matter to flow in and feed the critters inside that can support larger predators, thus when the debris are blocked by ice, the cave is starved. Also the fact that cave salamanders are only found where there are salamanders is, well, self explanatory. Where salamanders are at their greatest diveristy it is more likely for at least one of those species to end up wandering into caves.

[@pendlera2959]

@@thefolder3086 "Please read or else I would be irritated (kinda am now)" That's not a good thing to say to someone when you're trying to get them to listen to you.

[@thefolder3086]

@@pendlera2959 you know what , fair enough . I write that when I was kinda mad

[@Knealeriley]

Howdy, from the US state with the most caves Tennessee!! For every cave humans can get to and explore there are multiples more that are too small for humans or too inundated with snow or ice Caves are such a large and largely unexplored Refugia for many rarities. Please support your local grotto or spelunking organizations Help protect caves and their biological inhabitants before they’re lost to errant development

[@tomp6685]

Tennessee has some amazing caves. I visited the Lost Sea a few years ago, and I was absolutely stunned.

[@user-ze7sj4qy6q]

howdy from ur neighbor in the US state with the longest (known) cave system in the world, kentucky!

[@goose7453]

what i love about your videos is how you basically explain the thought process you had throughout your research and the answers you found

[@KlaustoFausto]

I remember when I was little that I watched a documentary about gigantic cave spiders in south america, the largest or one of the largest species of spider on Earth. Perhaps the lack of salamanders there made the further development of spiders into the apex cave preditors possible? Perhaps you could talk about this if you ever decide on a follow-up video

[@nyon7209]

I don't know much about these spiders, but being giant, to me, sounds like proof the cave lacks an apex predator to hunt them, rather than proof they became one themselves.

[@luhs6839]

That's a strong possibility. Most salamanders don't disperse very far between generations. Given that the Isthmus of Panama only formed recently, tropical climbing salamanders (genus Bolitoglossa) havn't had a lot of time to disperse across South America from the north.

[@pendlera2959]

@@nyon7209 Gigantism can be a response to predation, though.

[@LoreTunderin]

It makes sense that salamanders would survive while other cold blooded species wouldn't, given the periodic flooding events that occur in most caves.

[@eiwtsexiang]

Speaking of geographic isolation, you NEED to make a video about mountains and specifically montane animals and plants!! Mountains behave as islands too, and many mountain-dwelling species get stuck in the highlands, unable to move downwards due to the temperature differences. These species proceed to diversity and develop their own ecological niches seen nowhere else on earth. Please have a look at the highland Nepenthes (pitcher plant) species in Southeast Asia :)

[@hellfun1337]

he already did an episode on mountains.

[@debluflame1899]

He has made one, check it out it is cool too

[@uggali]

Yo and look into kea NZ alpine parrot

[@leandersearle5094]

@@hellfun1337 KyloMOAR.gif

[@DralhaEureka]

I loved the "sky islands" in Arizona. It is so cool to look down on the desert from a well-vegatated peak.

[@Omouja]

You could make a part 2, there's no much content about cave biology and ecology in YT, it's a very underated topic 😢 I would love to see more

[@eligoldman9200]

There was also that cave in Romania that got sealed off from the outside world and the primary source of energy became bacteria that used chemosynthesis from gases leaking in the bottom of the cave which allows it to survive without bats.

[@BackYardScience2000]

Yes!!!! I was going to mention this and wondered why he didn't add it to the video. He probably didn't have enough time to add it to the video would be my guess. Editing takes a LONG time for such long videos and I get it. But, a passing mention would still have been cool. It's an absolutely awesome cave system that deserves more attention due to how unique and cool the critters are.

[@ghostsgone8965]

another factor to consider in this apparent distribution of cave dwellers is that the US and Europe are both very well developed, rich countries, and quite a bit easier to get into as an english speaking explorer/scientist than northern africa or asia. the correlation between known cave predators and the extent of the permafrost is super interesting!!

[@mitchl5220]

I believe no other amphibian has taken their niche due to one simple reason. Salamander larvae are predatory whereas the tadpoles of frogs/toads eat algae which cannot be found underground

[@AnonymousSpirit]

Love how you combine biology and geography to piece new ideas together. Enriching experience to watch these videos.

[@SanScythe]

Hell yeah this is exactly what i needed to start my day! Love this channel!

[@SquiddyInvicta]

More uploads on this channel please! The content (as always) is some of the best I’ve seen on animals and biodiversity anywhere. Thats including cable networks and Netflix or whoever. Keep up your craft brother.

[@Cy10280]

At 26:45 you mentioned no other cave predators exist other than salamanders. As of recently, scientists have discovered that there is a population of dwarf crocodiles that spend nearly all of their lives inside of caves in Gabon, and they eat mostly insects and bats. This proves that if competition was low enough, in theory other animals can take the niche of apex predators in caves.

[@fransmars1645]

Bravo. You have explained a complicated notion in a way that was easy to understand. My brain would like to extend its gratitude. You should be very grateful. My brain does not usually ask me to do this.

[@ponekadglup6649]

i recently joined a caving club and i'm gonna do the caving course and exam later this month. ive done a bit of non tourist caving so far and we had a couple cave cleanups. i hope to join the cave rescue team someday.

[@AtlasPro1]

make sure to keep your eyes peeled for any white critters!

[@hannahbrown2728]

Good on you for wanting to do that kinda work. Youd never have to recuse me lol, but someone out there will appreciate your help in the future

[@ponekadglup6649]

@@AtlasPro1 i just so happen to be located where olms are endemic and the density of caves is just absurd so encountering some is very realistic.

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

more like "The Amazing videos of Atlas Pro" amirite

[@starrmont4981]

Hear hear

[@barrel6468]

babe wake up atlas pro just posted

[@Ben-outdoors]

I’m excited to watch this one (like always)! I live in Tennessee, we have the most caves and are the salamander hotspot of the world! Lots of natural beauty here

[@TocsTheWanderer]

21:17 I grew up seeing "salamander" used as a name for enemies in video games, usually for lizards that either use fire or live in fire-themed areas. A well known example is Charmander. I only found out in high school that salamanders are real, but are actually amphibians that spend a lot of time in the water. I've never even seen any salamanders, despite how much I hike and that I live in Ohio.

[@MrVykis]

Karst sounds like lithuanian word for coffin - karstas And geological feature is called karstinės vietovės. Quite literal for "coffin-like areas"

[@tomp6685]

I became fascinated with caves when I watched Planet Earth when I was 12.

[@samdelucia5074]

I press the like button immediately on an atlas pro video and never regret it

[@alpy1720]

I know from doing alot of caving in france alot of the caves in the french alps were in part filled with ice a few hundred years ago and some still have ice in them ( we call these parts glacière)

[@paulshelton6831]

no lie, didn't go looking for this video it was just recommended. FASCINATING watch, glad i clicked on it!!

[@DKforever24]

Theoretically speaking, if there were another animal that could become the top predator inside a cave system, it would have to be some kind of semi-aquatic lizard, almost like a miniature crocodile, but roughly the same size as a salamander. However, I think that because reptiles still need to keep warm by spending time in the sun, they wouldn't be able to survive long term deep inside a cave system like salamanders can.

[@kherna3428]

There are actually cave crocodiles that live in poop water in a cave in Africa. They are called the abanda caves.

[@thatguywhosighs8220]

I really enjoyed this video. I always love topics relating to biogeography, and you will always present the topics in a unique way. You notice something interesting, and then it evolves(no pun intended) into a video about an entire field of study. In many ways, your videos are a reason I want to become a biologist. Keep up the great work!

[@lorenzoventura7701]

You made my imagination fly, sir

[@bradknight5424]

I live close to the climax cave you talked about. It’s such an unknown cave even to most of the people that live around here. It’s pretty interesting you are able to research it.

[@lukepa151]

You showed troglomorphic fish in the beginning of your video and never brought it up again. Wouldn’t a fish like that be an apex predator? Love your videos but you didn’t tell the whole story

[@stefan_popp]

Amazing detective work and storytelling. I wish, all academic talks were presented like that, and I will keep trying to emulate it with as little additional effort as possible.

[@FFNOJG]

I want you to know that you truly make some of the best, and fully comprehensive videos on youtube.

[@rahulsujan3699]

New Zealand got left off the map again

[@DaveTexas]

We here in Central Texas love our cave salamanders! We love our surface salamanders, too. They’re one of our sentinel species that indicate whether or not we’re doing too much environmental damage in developed areas. Our salamanders have even stopped development of giant shopping malls until ways to protect the salamander’s ecosystem could be found!

[@tedbomba6631]

This video has introduced me to another KZbinr I'm definitely now subscribed to. I really appreciate that you feel that we are bright enough to deal with Latin nomenclature like intelligent people. Great content and great delivery !

[@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy]

0:13 you're creeping me out...

[@davidriddell3610]

Interesting video. It reminded me of a trip to Thailand a few years ago when we went into Mae Lana Cave, where we saw a cave racer snake - it was deep inside the cave in pitch darkness. Apparently they sit with their heads raised and mainly feed by catching passing bats! The same species also occurs outside caves, but perhaps they could be regarded as another top cave predator.

[@cycomhd8246]

Man Minecraft has become way too complicated

[@ritaalvaosantos5122]

I hope Man Minecraft is okey

[@existentity3476]

I never thought I'd find any of this particularly interesting, but now I'm brainstorming how all of this came to be. Super fascinating.

[@natalieeuley1734]

What's odd to me is I could have sworn there were Mexican cave salamanders as well. I know that in caves in southeast Asia, there are lots of animals that go in and out of caves frequently like cave swiftlets and snakes. But this video was super cool

[@sporovid5856]

Excellent video. Caves are one of my favorite environments on the planet so it feels good to see them be appreciated. Most people think caves are just boring holes in the ground, but the structures inside can rival gothic architecture in their beauty.

[@cherryspades3440]

First time watching one of your videos, and a bit shocked the algorithm didn't recommend your channel to me before. You've earned a new subscriber.

[@GoodrichthysEskdalensis]

Cave ecosystem: exists Salamanders: it's free real estate

[@olafshjvarbabar2788]

This video is incredible! Thank you for making it and for pursuing curiosity at every turn!

[@suhaschittavajhula8427]

All I can see are glow squids, skeletons, zombies creepers, witches, and axolotls maybe bats as well there.

[@aresnir2725]

you forgot spiders.

[@lyubomirchernev7350]

The cave in 2:49 min "Chudnite mostove" (The wonderful bridges) in Bulgaria is the place where I proposed to my wife :) It is nice to see such a beautiful place in your video :)

[@LukeBunyip]

3:44 null-AR-bore

[@surface3122]

Lol. As an Australian I was looking for this comment. Nulla-bore mate, Nulla-bore.

[@BackYardScience2000]

I, personally, wouldn't put salamanders as the top tier of the food web/triangle by itself. Many, many fish eat salamanders and you can even use them as fish bait or use fake salamanders as fish bait. I'd place the fish alongside the salamander at the top. That said, you have a great point that they do have the advantage of being able to go from water to land effortlessly vs the fish who can't. So I'd place the salamander over top of the fish, but still keep them both at the top. But seeing that fish eating salamanders and salamanders not eating fish (there are a few exceptions for large specimens), I question the placing of them altogether. But this is why we are talking about this, to figure that out and learn more and share that knowledge with everyone who wants to listen. Also, you didn't mention the longest cave system in the world, Mammoth Caves National Park and the biogeography within it. It has salamanders, fish, cricktes, spiders, crayfish, bats, etc and it's still not fully mapped. There could still be tons of animals down there waiting to be discovered. But since we were discussing caves and their biogeography, i found it odd that you didn't even mention the longest (or largest, deepest, oldest for that matter) cave system on earth that we know of. But, it's your video and I'm sure that you were pressed for time and talking points, let alone the editing and filming. I'd also love to see a video on the biodiversity of the salamanders in the eastern US. I live in that area and have made a hobby out of trying to find and photograph every single species native to my state (Kentucky) and I'm about 3/4 of the way done and I'm down to the rarest of them all. Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia all the states with the biggest diversity of salamanders and eastern Kentucky is the best place to search for them and photograph them in my honest opinion. I highly recommend doing that. And right now, February and March ate the best times to find a lot of them as it's breeding season and they come out at night on rainy nights when the temps are 45°f or above up until around April when they go back underground. Wear gloves when picking them up so your pily skin doesn't affect them negatively. I'd be willing to share my pics with you for your videos at no cost, just credit for the pics is all. My favorite by far has been the mud salamander. Very rare to find in Kentucky and the state herpetologist, John MacGregor, has never found one. I took the one that i found for him to see and a man named Dan Dorson wrote the book on the biodiversity of the Red River Gorge reptiles and amphibians and he took pictures of the mud salamander that i found and credited me in the book for finding it. If you ever have any questions on the reptiles or amphibians of the eastern US, just ask! I don't mind a bit sharing my knowledge with the world and that goes for everyone. 🙂

[@randompastahandle]

thanks for sharing.

[@n8dawg640]

Perfect! I was just talking to my friend about cave biology

[@graceartus6776]

Salamanders are such cool little dudes! I went caving for the first time a couple weeks ago and learned I probably saw a berry cave salamander not a tennessee one :)

[@guyhilldon]

Contrary to popular belief, humans don't usually live in caves

[@AtlasPro1]

makes you think about how some of us lost our skin pigmentation though 🤔

[@videosyouweresearchingfor6126]

@@AtlasPro1 Probably cause it's better for absorbing sunlight. Most northerners live in sun deprived environments, and are famously white. Could also be because of cross breeding with neanderthals idk. Also keep in mind many apes, including humans, give birth to very light skinned babies so maybe large groups of people ended up retaining their lack of melanin into adulthood for whatever reason.

[@SofondaCox69]

Babe, wake up a new Atlas Pro video just dropped

[@dom-romer663]

Sharing this to every intellectual discord I know!! 😍🥰😇

[@izackholmgren4686]

I love your videos, which is weird considering I never really liked any kind of biology and/or similar studies. You make me genuinely excited about these things.

[@jordanbell4736]

Suggestion to add links to your two previous videos explaining geology of cave formation. I noticed you saying you explained it twice without saying where in the video. These links would make sense for video about info.

[@j1j250]

one correction and some additional info that I think is important! The Olms are most closely related to the North American mudpuppies (all in family Proteidae). All species in family Proteidae are fully aquatic their entire lifecycle, so the olms did not "walk" into such a cave system, but rather came in through an aquatic route, as their ancestors were likely fully aquatic. This also explains why Olms are more troglyomorphic than Speleomantes -- like fish , fully aquatic salamanders may get swept deep into caves with no exit forcing them into a new environment without the ability to exist like a terrestrial salamander. For completely terrestrial salamanders like Speleomantes use of caves may be have started as a refuge from hot and dry summer months, and over thousands of years climates overall drying out forced Speleomantes to become more reliant on caves for adequately cool and moist environments. Until fairly recently, all Speleomantes used to be considered to be members of it's sister species, Hydromantes. Hydromantes is native to two pockets in California, One grouping of species surrounding Shasta lake, California, and another group in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. These Hydromantes species are highly dependent on limestone talus (depending on species) and rocky spring areas and potentially are active under the surface during dry months, with active adults being found in mine shafts late in the dry season, so they can arguably be considered in the early stages of adaption to cave life. I think the most interesting part of the hydromantes - speleomantes distribution disjunction is that is supports the hypothesis of Glaciation fragmenting the range of salamanders. Whats interesting to note is that genetic studys put the split between speleomantes and hydromantes at 13.5 million years ago. This, along with the fact that in present day there is a few groups surviving in California, and then another few distant groups in southern Europe implies an ancestor that had a distribution throughout Eurasia and Western North America over the land bridge present from around 20-25 mya. That ancestor was then divided into two groups by the closure of that bridge 10 mya, and then further restricted to its current range by gla ciation in the last glacial cycle. Also in Central America, I know many bolittoglossid and other hemidactyline salamanders are actually highly dependent on karst regions. I think a large part of what limits your search on troglyomorphic or otherwise cave dependent salamanders is explicit documentation of cave behavior. A lot of behaviors in salamanders is entirely undocumented, and many species have periods of time where they go underground. A lot of places with cave or fissure ridden areas that are otherwise inaccessible by humans may hold salamanders of entirely new species, or salamanders of known species engaging in novel troglyophilic behavior. Additionally a lot of species in California may engage in cave related behaviors. I know Aneides species throughout North America use rocky outcrops with deep fissures that extend deep into the face of a cliff or the ground as vital areas of habitat. these structures are used to lay clutches of eggs and provide refugia from the dry summer months. Basically many species of salamanders are reliant on subterranean structures in North America and that is almost definitely driving subterranean behavior for salamanders, but the lack of accessible caves in the west of North America basically means that humans just have very limited opportunities to interact with salamanders that are active under the surface. tldr - there are way more salamanders that interact with subterranean structures than are commonly documented as "cave salamanders," largely because most species also are very active on the surface and are primarily known from their surface activity. The Western coast of North America is the second Largest hotspot of biodiversity in the world for salamanders, behind Eastern North America, and many places in Western Coast of North America just don't have very many subterranean structures that are accessible by humans. This doesn't mean that activity underground by salamanders isnt happening there - its just very difficult to actually document. Despite this, some Hydromantes (sister genus to Speleomantes), like Hydromantes Brunus (Limestone salamander) have been documented active underground in mineshafts in California during the dry season. This activity underground during the dry season is an example of troglyophilic behavior in salamanders outside of the areas talked abt in the video, and i personally think it implies a wider range of activity that still needs to be further documented in western North American Caudates.

[@Dylan_Van]

your editing is so inspiring.

[@sawyerstudio]

❤ new Atlas Pro, good day

[@maggo9494]

really high quality nicely animated content. really impressive, nice work

[@liampowers8570]

As a fellow upstate New Yorker, you should check out some of the cool formations around Albany and schoharie county. It’s one of the best areas of preservation of glaciated karst in the country

[@prezwhitehouse]

I go into every video of yours with a passing interest, at best, in the topic at hand. I always leave curious and enthralled.

[@davidschaftenaar6530]

What I find surprising in particular: Why salamanders but never frogs? Frogs should have all of the same advantages that salamanders do when it comes to inhabiting caves, in so far as I can tell.

[@tomp6685]

I could absolutely be wrong about this, but I think it's because salamanders have a lower metabolic rate.

[@AtlasPro1]

This is something I wondered about too, theoretically they should be next in line for the cave-predator niche, and yet not a single troglomorphic frog has ever been found 🤔

[@srdjandakulovic6052]

Probably something like their general body plan and niche, frogs just aren't made for sliming around and under rocks like the salamanders are

[@alclay8689]

the frog is a bird you can't cage. no cave can hold them down

[@DMHN84]

Waiting for this exact video. Being recently at Yucatán peninsula left me in awe with all its cenotes

[@sparrows_9014]

Your videos are such gems

[@JohnGalTHM]

This is such an interesting approach to the topic! I always appreciate the way you look at the negative space of information we have about the natural world... basically the curiosity about what we DON'T know. And there's so much! I feel the same way about anthropology, and especially about places that have experienced flooding in the course of human history like Doggerland etc. Looking at that limestone karst map, there are such big spaces in areas that are still fairly unsettled... it's worth pointing out that the Europe and the Eastern US probably have had the highest population densities for the longest times in terms of overlap, allowing these guys to be discovered. Anyhow, great stuff!

[@nicholasjudge7190]

I remember hearing about some cave dwelling dwarf crocodiles in Gabon that went completely blind in their environments and take up basically the exact same apex predator role you described in the video. While its not a salamander I think its pretty close, it was even changing pigmentation like the video said so maybe its a bit earlier in its evolution but it was getting there. I believe the cave system was the Abanda caves, you should check it out.

[@feralmagick7177]

I would love to point out that this is another good piece of the puzzle that supports the Pangea theory. If you squish both of the continental landmasses together in this video you will find that the pocket for Salamanders are all in the same spot.

[@AlexAzureOtaku]

Amazing content as always

[@randomviewer4999]

Am inclined to agree with you on the distribution, for it looks like species are seemingly concentrated in areas likely to be surveyed (europe and both coasts of the states) which means there are certianly great chances for dicovery still elsewhere like southern china or the congo basin!

[@geoffreygill5849]

An honorable mention to the orange dwarf crocodiles of the Abanda cave system in Gabon, Central Africa. They live for years in total darkness in a liquid slush of water and bat guano. They eat mostly bats, and some crickets, insects, and shells. Their orange skin is believed to be bleaching from the acidic guano environment and their eyes are a bright red in the dark, no joke!… they’ve barely been studied, last I heard was in 2018 and they were found in 2006. Partly bc to even reach the cave system is a day boat ride into the jungle, and then you have to live out of there while you trek into the cave.

[@DomyTheMad420]

The last year i've dove deep (ha! get it?) into just making the most insane and realistic caves as i can in Minecraft. This video called out to me like you can NOT believe. C A V E S

[@admiral_m_10k35]

A NEW ATLAS PRO VIDEO omg!

[@joshdoe7288]

I’ve always loved troglodytes and I have no idea why. They’re just so insanely interesting and unique. So many new species to discover I love it

[@burstmistakes]

gonna be a good day when I wake up to haunt myself with caves at 6am

[@Horizontalvertigo]

This video inspires kids to become cave explorers, Internet Historian's CAVE changes their mind

[@LegendCampbell]

I'm from MN and all the caves are right where they are marked! That's pretty amazing actually!

[@Trans4mers84561]

Remember Travellers, cave fauna only spawns on flat, wide open cave floors, never in tunnels or drop-offs. I realized this when finishing off a mountain planet in Ontaniangp, and while it's still down to luck, for me the completion nanites just flowed in ever since.

[@loganabbas4243]

I did not start it expecting to learn everything I needed to know about salamanders and caves but it was worth the watch and very interesting.

[@Matt_Silverwolf]

Fascinating video, I love it

[@nickmcgookin247]

Killing it brother. Every year gets better

[@Hellbender8574]

I love salamanders, caves, and cave salamanders! This is a fascinating exploration.

[@charllietomas772]

Great video Atlas Pro ❤ I believe the lack of data is the only downside of the heat maps. Pitty, as I believe animal kingdom can provide humanity with many solutions to complicated problems...

[@PerryWinkle111]

When I was really little, maybe 6, we were visiting the Smoky Mountains in Tennessee. There was a river that ran through our campsite, and we used to go swimming in it. I swear one day I saw something that looked like what I later learned thought might be an Axolotl, but they don’t live in that area so I wasn’t sure. Watching this, I saw that cave salamander that lives in Tennessee, and that looks exactly like what I saw! I don’t usually believe my own memories because when you’re that little, they’re kind of unreliable, but I didn’t know what an Axolotl was back then and I described it to my parents as a “smooth white lizard and red fluffy things on its head” so I wonder if that’s what it was. It was down in some rocks in a river near Pigeon Forge, so maybe it came from a connected cave system

[@lara_xy]

that was such an interesting video! a bit bits with the voice over reminded me to pbs strange creatures videos, which is fun! i always love learning from your channel and widening my horizon