The American Invention Dominated by China: Solar Panels | WSJ U.S. vs. China

[@jamesz5816]

Solar used to be expensive. But now in China, the cost producing electricity by solar is cheaper than from coal even including the construction cost.

[@ThomsonVarghese22]

its cheaper in Texas to create electricity with solar compared to coal or natural gas. Its not a China specific thing.

[@賴志偉-d7h]

@@ThomsonVarghese22 IF you import solar panels from China.

[@udishomer5852]

Its true in most countries, solar is the cheapest way to produce electricity.

[@jamesz5816]

@@udishomer5852 You need to take the manufacture and construction into account. The energy from the sun is free. But the solar system costs way more than coal power plant up front.

[@kongwee1978]

@@jamesz5816 Not import from China, but US alway demand higher margin so the US consumer have to foot higher bills.

[@joneyu655]

Cold knowledge, 90% of the world's photovoltaic solar panels are produced in China, and China is also the world's largest renewable energy country.😂

[@yuanli1379]

top league in batteries, wind tubine etc.

[@KyriToe]

Also China has the largest greenhouse gases emitted combined total of all countries Did you also know they are building more coal generators and factories even more? But alas they are the most largest renewable energy country in the world 😒

[@user-em8fq2ev4b]

I thought china still mostly runs on coal? Even had black outs in major cities because of covid a few years back because of supply chain issue of coal. I doubt renewable energy is affected by covid.

[@jimsonjohnson3761]

Not really.

[@chrisfletcher86]

​@@jimsonjohnson3761yes really. 70% from coal. They do generate a lot from renewables as an absolute number, but it's a big country with a lot of people. Percentage wise though that's a lot of very polluting coal and they're building lots more coal plants whilst the UK has decommissioned it's last

[@1HeatWalk]

China is the answer to helping other poor countries to switch to clean energy in fighting climate change.

[@rharris4736]

Ask any of the 27 poor countries who have foolishly believed that and saddled themselves with twenty-five generations of debt while being forced to open their borders to Chinese colonization, what they think of this ignorant statement.

[@TheUser808]

Sure by offering them loans they can’t afford and if they default, China will take part of that Country.

[@happymelon7129]

U$A : We support The climate action coalitions , but we need to ban XingJiang solar panel .😅 U$A : We also need to to coerce all other country to ban XingJiang solar panel .😅

[@oceanwave4502]

One may argue that the move to green energy is strategy by rich countries to put a leash on the neck of poor countries because those won't afford buying the expensive solar/wind tech (without energy, no development). The fact China could do this to help poor countries was unexpected, like black swan.

[@Trgn]

​@@oceanwave4502Ye for years people tried to sell expensive green energy solutions in Africa, but they really only need stable electricity supply at affordable rate like coal to help kickstart development.

[@godzillamothra5983]

thank god the Chinese dominates solar industry, otherwise we have to pay arms and legs for solar panels from the US. With climate change crisis in front of us, we can't afford to dilly dally anymore.

[@Thekidisalright]

If US control anything, it will be a subscription service lol

[@doujinflip]

That comes at the price of political appeasement, which Beijing increasingly tries to leverage as its own economy burns out. The ideal would be having multiple sources worldwide who can offer similar yields and prices.

[@WTF2BlueTiger]

@@doujinflip Yeah, the US never needed political appeasement... They sell anything to anyone and never sanction anyone for any reason!

[@hueykratos]

​@doujinflip the US does the same in other industries 😅

[@elmohead]

​@@doujinflipI would happily do a daily kowtow to a photo of Mao if it means we get to save humanity from certain extinction.

[@proogenji7526]

What I heard is that China had a long lasting industrial policy to subsidize manufactures of solar panels. As I grew up in China, I constantly heard people criticizing the policy because some companies would try their hardest to get the government money but do little to really advance the industry. There were bad years for solar industry in China, but it seems it eventually works out. As the industry grow stronger, the government start to reduce the support to make the market more competitive. A very similar story can be told for the EV industry in China, and that industry is starting to yield results too. In recent several years Chinese government has been investing heavily in semiconductor industry, but this may prove to be a different challenge because semiconductor industry is not emerging but rather established. I'm looking forward to what China can achieve in this front.

[@thegalactictimetraveler5829]

China is building more coal power plants than any other nation right now...they are not green in any sense. They still have nuclear power plants leaking sewage into the ocean.

[@Lucifer-fj7mg]

There are way more failures than success when it comes to government set goals. What you are seeing is “survivorship bias”. But of course nobody can say for sure China won’t succeed again this time.

[@Lucifer-fj7mg]

But tbh tho, what china succeed is to make available invention cheap and commercially available. This is true for EV and Solar panels. and China is extremely good at it. And that’s what you can expect China to be good at.

[@catonpillow]

On semiconductors Сhina is improving by leaps and bounds in the last couple of years and are already mass producing 7 nm node. It should catch up with ASML/TSMC in the next several years. Сhina is catching up in the private space sector too.

[@tomasbickel58]

Not to forget, that the US fossil fuel industries is funding astroturf groups to stifle solar installations. No point in having a manufacturer if you don't have a market.

[@sankalp6872]

We are still not appreciating the difference in scale. China produces twice the total electricity of the US. Therefore, the 12% energy contribution from Solar in China is an ocean compared to what the US produces from Solar. It is impossible to beat China at cost. The US market remains stagnant, while the Chinese are getting hungrier for energy every year. Climate change cannot be the only motivation for such expensive shifts. It has to make commercial sense in the long run.

[@marktrinidad7650]

We could beat China through putting sanctions on all things China.

[@thedude5040]

I dont see what the big deal is. If we (the US) wants to have a homegrown industrial boom then we need lots of high density energy which comes from natural gas, coal, nuclear, and hydro if the local geography is adequate.

[@Glenn-ew8jh]

"Climate change cannot be the only motivation for such expensive shifts." Guys it doesn't make commercial sense to prevent our civilisations collapse and possibly our species' extinction! Humanity is losing it's mind.

[@alexmodnueldo8493]

​@Glenn-ew8jh I am fully not sure what the commenter intended originally with that statement. However, I do support the idea that the technology and manufacturing quality improve much faster when industry is motivated and profiting off of the production. Investing in research to figure out what technology can exist that will be green and profitable can be a better use of federal money than paying for plants. Solar cells definitely aren't going away anytime soon, but I would like to see further attention to options like nuclear.

[@cabasadefogo9533]

Exactly, go visit any Chinese city, and I mean any. Every sq inch of public space are well lit at night. All the high rises in city centers are lit with projected images to create evening light shows for the regular ppl. It's like having a firework show every night. So yea, they need a lot of electricity.

[@fhd89234n8f43n7]

One thing missing from this WSJ video article: Why does this matter? Why should I be concerned if China gets a monopoly on solar panels? This honestly sounds like a good thing to let “the world’s manufacturer” build super cheap solar power. It’s not like solar panels are a security risk, reliant on expensive IP, or a weapon with which to attack Taiwan.

[@cricketarena4926]

Why usa attack iraq

[@fhd89234n8f43n7]

@@cricketarena4926 ...what? 🤷‍♂

[@ameliah8164]

Because the United States is worried that they will not be able to strangle the Chinese people, threaten them politically, and provoke regional conflicts to weaken them. Seriously, America needs to focus more on improving itself.

[@johnsonjohnny2879]

@@fhd89234n8f43n7 He probably meant that solar power is like oil

[@free_manipur_from_india]

If you study Plaza Accord, you will understand why

[@lyttlebee]

i travelled to xinjiang west china last summer and was surpirsed to see large areas of solar farms across xinjiang.

[@jayzee316]

I did that this year, and inner mongolia, saw so much solar/wind farms.

[@hpw-ws6bj]

No concentration camps? Biden lying again?

[@PonyL-6688]

Forced labor of the sun confirmed! By the way they are killing the desert!!!

[@yifuwu3261]

Another good thing I noticed is solar farms could significantly reduced the evaporation rate in the dessert area in Inner Mongolia. Also, the water used to clean the panel nourished the plant underneath. I went there this May and was surprised the whole area which used to be desert has become a grassland. When grass grows too well, they could block the panel and affect the electricity generation. So farmers nearby just graze their sheeps and cows there. They even branded their lamb and beef as carbon neutral product which could be sold for a better price. This looks like a really eco way for local development❤

[@Sagittarius-A-Star]

@@yifuwu3261 Your word in god's ear. I really hope this is true and not just another CCP deception.

[@treefarm3288]

I first installed solar using US made panels in 1991. I retired them a few years ago because I needed the roof space for big new Chinese made ones (I'm in Australia). The old ones still put out over half their nominal rating, although the warranty back then was 10 years.

[@timmaynard797]

Thats awesome! Whats wore out on the old ones? Do they just get more and more inefficient due to internal components or damage to the exterior?

[@jrkr7357]

China able to produce very low price solar panels. That benefits the whole world's consumers.

[@Mike__B]

@@timmaynard797 UV light causing the coatings to become more and more opaque over time, heating and cooling cycles of expansion/contraction, things simply will not last forever.

[@timmaynard797]

@@Mike__B Nice thanks for the info

[@addisalemayehu7546]

@@jrkr7357 the quality is poor though.

[@abdiganiaden]

Top manufacturing powers 2022: 1. China - 28.7% 2. United States - 16.8% 3. Japan - 7.5% 4. Germany - 5.3% 5. India - 3.1% 6. South Korea - 3% 7. Italy - 2.1% 8. France - 1.9% 9. United Kingdom - 1.8% 10. Indonesia - 1.6%

[@ecnalms851]

Interesting. I wish my country (UK) manufactured much more. Now it just seems like the only thing we offer is financial services.

[@wallacepan3897]

​@@ecnalms851u know UK is just an island with 67m ppl right? 1.8% is good enough😂

[@nightking8490]

​@@wallacepan3897😂😂 lol this small island used to produce much more in its empire days. Now it is nothing than an irrelevant island in North sea.

[@angus7278]

Most Americans are still blissfully unaware…

[@100c0c]

@@GYSPP That is why he used percentage. This is total manufacturing capacity not value. Did you learn what PPP was yesterday?

[@freeheeler09]

A country that doesn’t manufacture anything cannot long defend itself, and will eventually send all of its wealth to countries that do make things.

[@rachebrother5349]

Yeah, that's why Bangladesh has gotten so rich over the last decades /s

[@Jersey1225]

Blance please, don't do anything extremely.

[@lyttlebee]

America is smart to make a big chunk of profits in the supply chain, while keeping pollution at other countires manufacturing for it. and it can also harvest the whole world in the finance sector with its dollar dominance.

[@angus7278]

Capitalist greed sent all the US investment money elsewhere. Now American consumers just buy, they don’t make.

[@d_lollol524]

@@lyttlebee maximizing profits is the only motivation behind outsourcing . Business folks do not care about pollution . Politicians are corrupted by the rich business folks .

[@enticingmay435]

The American Southwest is always sunny, it never rains, and is thus the perfect place for solar panels. There’s definitely a lot of remand for energy. Yet the US government is not harnessing this potential. It’s all about political will and politicians in America don’t have the will nor incentives to think past or plan past their short terms in office. All they care about is how to get re-elected and stay in power.

[@youngwhen5308]

While the United States shouts environmentalism, China lags far behind in the construction of green energy

[@catbertevil750]

there's a reason the US government is NOT involved... after ww2, NO american industry has boomed solely because subsidies handed out by the government against the law of economics. NONE! still remember the big 3, or the big steel mill subsidies? so the current semi-conductor policy will fail the same way, not to mention the failing EV battery industry. lol

[@howardreith2186]

If you invite the government in they will never leave

[@Thekidisalright]

⁠@@youngwhen5308”China lags far behind in construction of green energy” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 tell me how you know nothing about modern China without saying you know nothing about modern China lololol

[@AmericanNope]

They are re elected thru their donations and their donations come from business people and here there are a lot of rich powerful businesses interested in keeping old technologies which they control in place like oil and gas. When and if other corporations are able to make money off newer technologies like solar or wind then their dollars to politicians will be able to compete with those of other interests. Our political system is for sale and the highest bidders win. That’s why we are in the state we are in

[@noahpolicarpio1530]

People seem to be forgetting that China HAD to be so ahead in solar because they had an air pollution problem so bad a decade ago due to becoming the world's factory. I'm not surprised they're so ahead of the US in this case.

[@thegalactictimetraveler5829]

China is building more coal power plants than any other nation right now...they are not green in any sense. They still have nuclear power plants leaking sewage into the ocean.

[@edwinvargas7969]

They absolutely had no need to do this, they couldve not cared, but they did. And by that sane logic, its time for the US to catch up or at least lag along

[@IAmSpeaking4MySelf]

HAVE an air pollution problem. Not had. HAVE.

[@Raksasaification]

well, they had a larger air pollution problem. They needed, need, and will need clean energy and ev. Unlike the USA, which had no need for clean energy and ev despite spending 25% of global fuel while not being a global manufacturer. Now, the US need to do those to... compete with china?

[@leonalchemist]

They're still increasing coal power plants and are desperate for more coal, tons of their solar panels and wind farms are just for show, either not connected to anything or actually draining the grid the turn the wind turbines for the sake of pretending they're green, meanwhile their air is black :/

[@pinkrose4121]

People forget 1 major factor, transmission of energy from solar firms located in deserts to cities which consume the energy. China is unmatched in energy transmission technologies like Ultra-high-voltage electricity transmission (UHV). There is also another factor for renewable energy - storage. China again is unmatched for energy storage technologies.

[@kurger100]

What do you think China is unmatched... US has far more advanced power storage technology

[@Star2bed]

@@kurger100美国在技术上更先进，但是中国在成本上更有优势。

[@johnsonjohnny2879]

@@kurger100 come on ，google it

[@royk7712]

@@kurger100 u mean battery? 50% of battery is produced and used in china

[@postahundredcommentsbutonl4408]

@@kurger100 In UHV transmission technology, the United States lags behind China by more than ten years.

[@xfsfkahrs]

If China is willing to push renewable energy forward, we really appreciate it regardless of any political concern. Just imagine that in history there were many wars related to oil. What China is doing can reduce potential geopolitical conflicts to some extent.

[@ePALPAL]

Is that why Australian press has begun to suggest that solar panels made in China with their inverters maybe posing a security risk?

[@jec5476]

There is a lot of "red scare" in the West these days.

[@userspylife]

The inverter will send the energy back via quantum teleportation, via China quantum computer?

[@youngwhen5308]

There's no risk. It's just you speculation

[@jetli740]

look like australia top scientist couldnt figure out what inverter are use for🤣🤣

[@Sagittarius-A-Star]

All of the ~10 inverters I checked are calling home to China or need an Internet connection to China to work. I don't know if they would continue to work in "dumb" mode without this connection or if the lights simply would go out. For me this is reason enough to wait until it is possible to get inverters made in the free world.

[@consp51]

China frequently implements state-led initiatives to combat climate change and promote environmentally sustainable practices. The government supports these efforts by providing subsidies to industries in order to stimulate market growth. They also doing crazy thing in the desert by growing tree and turn desert to farmable lands. Now, with chip war the United States initiated, China is now focusing on improving chip production. If successful, this could have huge impacts as well.

[@rack9458]

China has initiated 86GW of new coal plants in 2023. This alone is the worst environmental threat in the world right now. It takes hundreds of years to convert desert sand into productive farm soil not to mention the billions of gallons of water needed. China is still light years behind on protecting the environment!

[@s._3560]

All governments do that.

[@MetaView7]

Most important of all, they have long-term plans, which is not possible in a 4-yr cycle democratic election system.

[@consp51]

@@MetaView7 Well said. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The current bipartisanship is merely a struggle for dominance and control.

[@eat_ze_bugs]

@@MetaView7 America can have long term plans, the war in Afghanistan that lasted 20 years was a good example of that. If only there was a government agency that manages and oversees long term projects instead of wars 🤔

[@consp51]

China is ranked first in CO2 emissions, with the US coming in second. However, China is actively investing in green technology to address climate change. In contrast, the US congress is still engaged in debates over the reality of climate change.

[@patrickgz]

china is ranked first in CO2 emissions net. but 3rd or 4th per capita. not surprising being the world factory

[@rack9458]

Building 86GW in new coal plants shows how backwards China is!

[@Gutraidh]

@@patrickgz Per Capita they are 41st by the way, and US is 15th. First is Qatar.

[@americannumber2]

Imaging every Chinese family got 4000w dryer

[@consp51]

@@americannumber2 they usually don’t use dryer, they usually sun/solar dry. Lots people also have solar boiler on their roof top.

[@rf2032]

If every country had to be self-sufficient in everything what's the point of global trade?

[@sammylee9402]

USA started the trade war cause the death of Global trade.

[@amandagrant4331]

Ironically, globalization has always been driven by the United States in the past.

[@Dr.Jekyll_]

Really appreciate the objective reporting WSJ continues to do, it is rare nowadays. 🙏🏽

[@robbrown4621]

They did not mention the Uyghur slave labor that communist China uses in keeping labor costs low in producing solar panels.

[@mirceskiandrej]

It's extremely rare for WSJ to do it too. Maybe they could do it in their paper as well, but then their conservative short termist audience may unsubscribe...

[@robinrahul2176]

Yeah ask WSJ how much money it gets from CCP...😂😂😂

[@russelfang7434]

@@robinrahul2176 How much do you get from your lovely Sleepy Joe?🤣🤣🤣

[@irritatedanglosaxon1705]

@russelfang7434 it's savage man, China leads in every sector that's why US regime is in flames

[@blucorona]

Don’t understand why Americans have to worry. China have mouths to feed of course they need to produce. Why you need to stick your nose to other people business? Your politicians is giving you a public enemy to cover their own poor management of the country. Just focus on your own country infrastructure and hold the politicians accountable. Prosperity will come naturally. Don’t let your MSM to fool you.

[@richiesd1]

What does it matter who produces what? We should trade with one another and buy from the most efficient producers. That would improve the quality of life around the world. If I want to install solar panels, of course, I will buy from China because they have the best products at the lowest price. Try to make something else to sell them in exchange.

[@udishomer5852]

True for most things, not for products of strategic importance like computer chips or specific raw materials (oil, natural gas, some metals). Sadly, history shows that countries use their monopoly position to pressure and boycott other countries.

[@richiesd1]

@@udishomer5852 , remember Adam Smith? He said it’s better to buy Porto from Portugal and enjoy life. There is no point in restricting the import or trying to make it in England.

[@cedardrive4599]

In the 19th century, Britain tried to do what you are preaching but the only product they could produce to sell to China was opium. So, Britain became the vilest opium dealer and, even then, had to force its opium on China by war.

[@qilu2004]

there is not much chinese want and DC allows u to sell in the same time.

[@richiesd1]

@@qilu2004 Capitalism requires that one be creative - create new products and services, and find new markets. That’s how one creates win-win.

[@CHMichael]

1:47 now we are the 3rd world country - exporting sand to get it back as expensive solar.

[@udishomer5852]

The Canadian, Australian and Norwegian economies are largely based on exporting raw materials. Its not a "third world" characteristic, its more an issue of availability and history.

[@samuelraya710]

​@@udishomer5852why can't Indonesia export more of this sand ? China needs to stop making Australia rich

[@tstcikhthys]

I don't think you know what Third World means; countries can't change their "World" status. You likely mean _developing_ country. And even then, just exporting raw materials does not make a country a developing one.

[@krac3x438]

as if $1.2B is gonna do anything, you can´t even build a large automated plant with this

[@aeonstorn7823]

Why not start a new war?

[@ericsfather3274]

that's like five miles of high speed rail in CA

[@alanmay7929]

@@aeonstorn7823I see what you did there 😅😅😅

[@Semper_Iratus]

@@aeonstorn7823👈free Tibet.

[@drewh3224]

Everything is just so expensive, with no purchasing power.

[@MochiColorful]

173 petawatts of energy reaches the earth from the sun every SECOND. we just need 0.01% of that

[@tstcikhthys]

*power, not energy.

[@wedmunds]

Watt is already a per second unit. Perhaps you meant petajoules?

[@junkerzn7312]

​@@wedmunds Watts are not per-anything. Watts are a measure of power, not energy. "Watt-seconds", "watt-hours", "kilowatt-hours" ... that's energy. 1 joule is a measure of energy and THAT is basically the same as watt-seconds. 1 joule = 1 watt x 1 second. Note that the units are watt x seconds. i.e. W*s, NOT watts-per-second (W/s), which is meaningless. But you can rewrite the equesetion. 1J = 1W * 1s to 1W = 1J/1s. If you call it J/s then it would be correct, but that's only if you use "Joules" in the numerator, and in that case you are implying an average power over a specific period of time. But that is not what "Watt" means. It does not mean "average power over a period of 1 second". It is not an average on its own, only when put in the context of a specific period of time. A bit confusing I know.

[@wedmunds]

@@junkerzn7312 the original commenter said petawatts per second, which would be the second derivative of energy, and meaningless. Watts are Joules per second, and that's is an objective fact, you cannot argue otherwise.

[@rusticbox9908]

If you can't beat them, ban them! Same goes to cotton! 😂

[@Thekidisalright]

The US would have ban them long ago if they don’t have such high demand in solar panels, they just have no choice but to buy from China, they tried to threaten the export of silica sand before but China say if you do so we will apply tariff on solar panel exports to US and the US bend the knees. Guess the news didn’t tell you all these ya?

[@Rogue604]

I love how everything is always "first invented by america" .... Photovoltaic research began in china in 1958. This led to the development of the first monochrystalline silicon. With more years of R&D at the institute of semiconductors (part of the chinese academy of sciences) they were able to develop solar cells for satellites in 1968. It wasnt until sometime in late 70s ,early 80s that the first iteration of the solar panel as we know it today was developed. It was during this time the chinese government encouraged the industry with initatives through its environmental policies and funding. In the late 90s they began demonstration projects along with the first polysilicon cell battery to showcase its potential applications for clean energy. As for if the usa exports silica to China i do not know, but what i do know is that China is one of the largest producers and exporters of silica. Oh and btw , First solar is owned by leeward renewable energy which is a canadian company.

[@ryanl1033]

Charles Fritts 1883. How much does the ccp pay you?

[@Trgn]

Ye it's like comparing a phone today to the 1st one is kinda completely pointless. They are entire different products, where every little innovations along the way counts

[@IAmSpeaking4MySelf]

If it weren't for the USA, Chinese folk would be speaking Japanese now.

[@Rogue604]

​@@Trgnactually it's not quite as simple as that , but yes you are correct. Why this is video is misleading is most people don't understand that these panels are not SOLAR panels they are photovoltaic panels. PV panels utilize light photons to output electrons to create electricity. Solar panels on the other hand capture solar radiation to harness thermal energy ( used to heat homes and water tanks). First solar company uses thin-film cdte technology specifically Cadmium telluride in its production which does not use silicon. That's why this video is bs about silica and its relation to the company. I could go in depth but these days it seems most people just want to try and discredit or argue rather than be more informed.

[@Rogue604]

​@@IAmSpeaking4MySelfis that all you got ?? I was under the assumption that AI bots were supposed to be intelligent. My original post is not intended to be PRO China nor PRO America. I just extremely dislike being mislead, misinformed and treated to be ignorant. I'm pretty sure everyone regardless of ethnicity or country resents being fed a load of B.S.

[@rexmundi8154]

Kentucky has some of the most advanced glass manufacturing industry in the world and a long history in that space. We could totally scale up. A technology that’s often overlooked is solar evacuated tube hot water heaters. They are very efficient at heating water and require no rare minerals or complicated controls. Since a lot of energy is spent just heating water, it’s pretty low hanging fruit. I was on a team that designed a manufacturing line that made glass tube stock for medical use. With minor changes it could have made the solar evacuated tubes instead.

[@tirivaenim]

We could and we are, are two different things.

[@catbertevil750]

heating water is one narrow way of solar application. it's highly irregular in efficiency and effectiveness so no way that would be a general way of utilizing solar energy.

[@doujinflip]

Concentrating solar energy to melt salt may be a better solution, as the raw heat is easy to store and tap into when demand fluctuates throughout the day.

[@rexmundi8154]

@@doujinflip since most houses already have a tank of hot water sitting in their closet or basement, simply replacing how that water is heated goes a long way even if it isn’t 100%. Molten salt solar power plants are pretty limited in their location and the technology has been problematic. Basically every house in America that has solar exposure could benefit from evacuated tube solar collectors that could be made with the same technology that already produces billions of spaghetti sauce bottles a year.

[@richardstubbs6484]

Heating domestic hot water with electricity is illegal in some countries, and new houses have to fit solar hot water geysers...

[@reactionmunde2656]

China every year investing at least 3.9 trillion dollars on infrastructure.They doesn't fund war😂😂😂

[@Semper_Iratus]

Really bot?

[@張居正-k5k]

true

[@andia968]

@@Semper_Iratus US military infras are top notch

[@indian_toilet]

Because USA was formed from genocide

[@JigilJigil]

OK Wumao, Xitler is proud.

[@registerhand4720]

1:35, China "dragged, frankly, the rest of the world into this clean energy as a real option, not a play thing!" 👍

[@Who-vt9oh]

Thanks to globalization, the US manufactures virtually none of a lot of important, even essential, things. But, hey, some billionaires got rich and that's all that matters, right?

[@consp51]

That the power of the USD dollar supremacy!

[@MetaView7]

Apple and Google are hiring fresh grads at $140k per year. That's where US's strength is, not $7.50 menial labor.

[@consp51]

@@MetaView7 Do you have an idea about the rental costs for new hires looking for apartments in LA/NY? Additionally, have you taken into account the tuition fees in the US? It is important to note that only a small number of new graduates are hired at a salary of $140k per year. On average, candidates with 5 to 10 years of work experience receive this salary in major cities.

[@Who-vt9oh]

@@MetaView7 that's great for the fresh grads, but there's a lot of essential things that Apple and Google don't produce, and anything we need that isn't produced domestically must be imported.

[@MetaView7]

@@Who-vt9oh There is nothing wrong with importing something you don't make. China bought over 2,000 Boeing aircraft built by skilled union workers, and the politicians got people all hyped up over $2 socks at Walmart.

[@first-gordonchang9510]

Robotics? Didn't the Washington's Warpigs claim the CCP force labor the Wegor making the solar panel? CCP Force labor the Robotics?😂

[@FckGod16]

💀💀💀

[@thomassimmer5186]

The eclipse of U.S. manufacturing is directly connected the dollar's role as the reserve currency. Reserve currency status results in a permanent trade deficit as dollars spent on imports are used as reserves rather than buying back U.S. goods. U.S. exports languish and imports grow. If we switched to the yuan as the world reserve currency tomorrow, China would immediately move away from being an export driven economy and its dominance in cars, bikes, solar panels, etc. would weaken. While it is nice to "free load" for so many decades, there is a price to pay. Export driven economies have lower standards of living but are highly competitive, especially in manufacturing.

[@coconuts5237]

American people are willing to do the hard work of manufacturing things with low salary and living conditions? It is not just reserve currency works. it is also about the people's mindset.

[@thomassimmer5186]

@@coconuts5237 You are right, but it is not just low salary and working conditions too. It is, however, an underappreciated and important reason for the deindustrialization of America since the dollar became the reserve currency. Keynes recognized this and predicted it at the time.

[@udishomer5852]

Japan and Korea (and Germany to some degree) are export based economies with very high standard of living.

[@ASK-ko9qx]

​@@udishomer5852Germany yes, Korea and Japan not so much.

[@thomassimmer5186]

@@udishomer5852 True. The US import economy helps sustain their export economies. It's the flip side of the coin.

[@cobracommander.1958]

WHY IS AMERICA ANGRY??? The soviets invented stealth and America dominated the tech it's all about priorities 😂😂😂.

[@cheechchong6964]

The I.R.A might be good for manufacturing but it places strange rules on funds reducing labor pools and keep money out of the hands of the people who install solar

[@donaldli1864]

Whoever makes solar panels affordable is welcome. The world needs to harness the solar energy to save our planet.

[@malloryshofi1274]

So well produced! Very interesting to understand.

[@temper44]

Notice that this article didn't even mention Germany, where the current solar boom started. They did all the heavy lifting and a lot of the R&D, that China then learned from.

[@julialane6645]

Germany learned several winters ago, & the same winter Texas had the Ice Storm, & the Grid failed, that Green Energy was a Failure. Germany had a Severe Winter Snow Storm & the Windmills froze, & the Solar Panels were covered with snow & ice. Germany had to buy Oil & Natural Gas from Russia, Nuclear Energy from France, & Coal from Poland, so the German people would not freeze to death. Ukraine has the largest Nuclear Power Plant in Europe. Today Germany & Europe are moving toward Nuclear Energy & Coal. Solar Panels destroy the land & nature & wildlife. Windmills kill birds, and many Windmills across America that do not function, & sitting & there is no way to recycle.

[@guruxara7994]

The US did the same in the 40s, most "American Inventions" aren't American, but from other countries, especially Germany.

[@shooyooyoon9007]

I guess that US is good at oil so US really didn't invest much on solar energy.

[@thomasgrabkowski8283]

Yeah, US has a lot of oil and gas so it switched from coal to oil and gas before renewables unlike China where they only have coal out of those 3 resources in abundance

[@free_manipur_from_india]

You mean good at stealing oil?

[@Shining237]

Probably not. China economic model is based on the collective good of the many. Whereas here in the US everything is driven primarily by profit. This is why China's infrastructure is a good 50yrs ahead of us. But - don't take my word for it...look it up and judge for yourselves. KZbin - Walk East, Chinese Street View, just to name a few...if interested 🤔

[@xdragus]

they rather focus on it not profitable...not how it improves the lives of people /facepalm

[@Sagittarius-A-Star]

You never watched China Observer, China Uncensored, serpentza, advchina ..... right?

[@kentolope1252]

@@Sagittarius-A-Staryou kidding right? Serpentza and China uncensored? The two most notorious for very biased opinions against china. We’ll if you believe them then I guess good for u

[@INTJ791]

​​​@@Sagittarius-A-Starat china problem is true, but very dramatized, the problem is not that big, and that tofu street edited, tofu building is true, remember china population three times of united states, so expect at least twice the problem,

[@theobserver8881]

@@Sagittarius-A-Starut do you have honk they are being biased or fair, and how do you know?

[@Chris-xs3vu]

Imagine calling people out for monopoly and domination after you decided to drop out and now your opponent comes back stronger and tougher

[@adnefs45]

From a dutchy point of view, americans are free to chose, cause they live in a free country. China isn't the cheapest producer anymore! What about India? You've got high grade silica. So what's the problem? You've the goose with the golden egg's. But why are you selling them to others.

[@a.a.1245]

0:42 thats not an accurate graphical.Why to exaggerate the disparities between both?

[@nottelling41]

The key factor ignored in this video is the cost of capital! Sad that WSJ forgot about something so significant and obvious. Chinese manufacturers in important industries were given cheap capital which enabled the huge increases in manufacturing scale

[@kentershackle1329]

Everyone DOES that... there are soo many schemes that the government ot locality award to entice investment. Its nothing new..

[@letsburn00]

This is why industrial policy is useful. People complain about government being involved with anything, then yell and are confused when countries with governments that do begin to win in certain sectors.

[@thegalactictimetraveler5829]

China is building more coal power plants than any other nation right now...they are not green in any sense. They still have nuclear power plants leaking sewage into the ocean.

[@Trgn]

Mixed economy. Main reason why Western corporatists and colluded politicians dont like Chinese 'communist', 'authoritarian' model, yet still exploit for efficient manufacturing.

[@MetaView7]

given cheap capital? LOL according to whom? Nothing is free. They are more competitive in every sector than the western world, including the competition for capital.

[@DarkwarriorJ]

The way this title puts it, this is like gunpowder - China invented it, Europe made successful global war with it. Now America invents solar panels, China remakes its economy with it :D

[@happymelon7129]

U$A : We support The climate action coalitions , but we need to ban XingJiang solar panel .😅 U$A : We also need to to coerce all other country to ban XingJiang solar panel .😅

[@苏亮蒋]

In China, solar panels are used for poverty alleviation. The government provides subsidies for poor farmers to purchase solar panels, and the electricity generated is recycled by the government. Usually, the money invested by farmers can be recovered within five to six years.

[@qianxu8368]

The latest research in Nature Energy and Joule readily shows China's strength in solar technology.

[@AndrewLambert-wi8et]

USA DOESNT PRODUCE SOLAR PANELS?

[@almondgarfield]

wait, are you saying that consistent industrial policy promoting renewables results in success in renewables? Shocked. Blame republicans.

[@NMWEYSILYSMM]

I do the more believe it’s more educated to say it’s more than just republicans. As the video stated, China is out producing and distributing the United States and EU COMBINED. That was so surprising to me, it’s not just an American party issue, it’s a fundamental issue in our political systems in general

[@deezeed2817]

Chinese leaders think 20-30 years ahead. I remember when they first announced these policies back in the 2000's and now 20 years later it has paid off. This is where America cannot compete. American politicians only think in election cycles and react when they realise what has happened. This sort of short term thinking means that Chinese leaders have time to anticipate anything the U.S does. China is not a planned economy but it's leaders do plan ahead. In fact there's certain projects that China is engaging now that isn't even being mentioned by western media like the Xiong'An New Area. By the time the west has figured what China is trying to do they would have missed the bus completely.

[@Semper_Iratus]

@@deezeed2817👈Free Tibet.

[@hankhill6707]

​@@Semper_Iratusfree Hawaii

[@johngalt1927]

The Xiongan new area was a failure. It was a polluted zone too far from the capital and they eventually went back on its special designation because it did not spur economic development.

[@BslmUSA]

What does “the control” mean？you want to buy, you can buy in the market, no one is forcing you to buy.

[@thegreatone4090]

Surprised US is still using so much coal and China so little natural gas with the Russian gas lines. 1:25

[@にはおさおあ]

It's not that long ago Russia invaded China, not like they are allies or anything close.

[@jonathaneffemey944]

Thanks for posting.

[@Ryan-qi6wq]

For a long time, US have been condemning China for those policies, yet they just copy the same policies 😂

[@DaysGabe]

Subsidies are ubiquitous here in the US, too...only ours is funded by debt and China's by their epic piles of cash from their trade surplus. We seriously need to do better.

[@lambertois11]

This article failed to look at the bigger picture . The contribution of China solar energy is small. The bulk of electricity production in China comes from fossil fuels, mainly coal. China has 1118 coal-fired power plants! China is adding mega coal fired power plant at each year. In comparison, India and the United States have respectively : 285 and 225 coal-fired power plants. China is consuming 53% of the total coal produced in the world; the actual quantity of coal burned in China is 4,319,921,826,000,000,000 cubit feet The batteries of Chinese electric vehicles are charged mainly with electricity produced from coal. Definitely not green energy!

[@kamsunleong6648]

They have to until these coal plants can be replaced by their renewable sources from solar, wind, hydro and nuclear. This will take a lot of time. China is also leading the rest of the world by a wide margin in generating green energy.

[@pengyuecai553]

中国的超超临界发电技术，每度电的耗煤量非常的少。在未来很长时间，的确煤炭还是维持50%，但由于总用电规模也是非常巨大增长，绿色能源规模也相应扩大。

[@oemcargps]

“国家能源局：2023年新能源发电装机占比将超50%”。西方主流媒体的洗脑造就了大量的无知者，他们不会懂得趋势的力量,当光伏加储能的单位发电成本远低于煤电的时候，这是一个不可逆的过程。

[@michaelvanallen6400]

According to the IEA (Int. Energy Agency), an incredible 217 GW of PV capacity was installed in China in 2023. *This means that China installed 6.5 more than the USA (33 GW)!* China installed 148% more than in the previous year! And China exported 200 GW. 55% of global green electricity capacity (= wind, solar, hydropower, etc.) in 2023 was installed in China alone.

[@SharapovaFan]

I'm from the Philippines and I had a 12 Kw grid-tie solar system installed last year. It's sunny here almost all year round and my electricity is practically free. Since I produce a lot of surplus energy during the day, the energy company buys my surplus and that surplus is used to offset my power consumption during the evening. Instead of being just an energy consumer, I've become an energy producer. My panels have an estimated 25 year usable life while my inverter has a 10 year warranty. So this is definitely a long term investment. I might add a LiFePo4 battery pack in the near future. But so far I've got a gasoline generator in case a super typhoon knocks the power out for a day or two.

[@BarkataliMomin]

It takes days to approve projects in China vs years in US. Government departments in US are very inefficient and unfit to the needs of businesses.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

List of Countries the US has Bombed Since the End c WWII (may be incomplete) Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War) Guatemala 1954, 1960 Indonesia 1958 Cuba 1959-61 Vietnam 1961-73 Laos 1964-73 Belgian Congo 1964 Dominican Republic 1965--66 Peru 1965 Guatemala 1967-1969 Cambodia 1969-1970 Nicaragua 198OS El Salvador 1980s Lebanon 1982-84 Grenada 1983 Lebanon 1983, J 1984 (Lebanese, Syrian targets) Iran 1987 Panama 1989 Iraq 1991 (First Gulf War); 1991- 2003 (US/UK "NO Fly Zone") Kuwait 1991 Somalia 1992--94; 2007 Bosnia 1994-1995 Iran 1997 Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999 Afghanistan 2001--ongoing Iraq 2003 (Second War--more recently predator drones) Yemen 2002, 2009 Libya 1986, 2011

[@badluck5647]

Can we call the "Inflation Reduction Act" a more honest name?

[@htaukkyanmyo4437]

We subsidize oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar, wind, etc. energy research. We wasted billions. We spent billions on the unfinishing the Clinch River Breeder reactor work, billions in Synthetic fuel research, billions in solar with over $500 million to a single solar panel company that busted. We are not good in developing program that would be beneficial to the public. I am waiting to see how the funds in the Inflation Reduction Act would go down the drains.

[@Joe-ij6of]

Title: "China Dominates Solar. Can the U.S. Even Stand a Chance?" Me: Not with that attitude it can

[@izzyallwright]

This headline could work for anything China has made.

[@johnlay3040]

The strength of China economy is the production of products which are directly correlated with population size. Just for examples, Electric Vehicles, Jet passenger planes, Solar Panel, Mobile phones, etc. They are all directly correlated to the population size. While the US weapon industry don't have such correlation. Semiconductor has, but Biden kills it. Very smart oldman. 😂😂

[@賴志偉-d7h]

As if Biden is the source of and solution to all your problems.😀

[@parkjoonkwang9259]

The US GDP is too high in virtual things

[@deathless3518]

The US weapons industry isn’t interested in scaling up military weapons (thank god) and making it cheap so anyone can have a tank in their driveway

[@johnlay3040]

@@賴志偉-d7h It seems to be that way, although it's not my problems, but Americans'.

[@johnlay3040]

@@parkjoonkwang9259 US GDP is fueled by debts and money printing. You'll notice in the coming years with the difficulty of getting loans and the inability to print money as much as they please (due to de-dollarisation), the GDP will drop significantly, ie. recessions are coming like tsunami.

[@balazstivadar8631]

Greetings to Gergo Varga! Üdvözletem Varga Gergőnek!

[@entertainmentjoke2871]

I love how western media focus on competing rather than cooperating. 😂

[@oemcargps]

That's always the case

[@TianZhaoHeavenlyFortune]

Y do you have to frame these things in an adversarial way? Why does everything have to be about competition with the you people? If you really wanna compete, write about how China eradicated extreme poverty within Her borders and yet America now has tent cities almost everywhere.

[@angus7278]

And Americans are STILL convinced their capitalist system is so much better than China’s brand of socialism. 😅

[@Sp1tfire100]

Wat socialism in china? It is state capitalism in china

[@neilbohrs5990]

​​​​@@Sp1tfire100It is both, just as the US is both. Socialism is just more extreme in China. public school is socialism, so are librabries, fire departments, hospitals, parks and etc. In China, land is regulated, therefore there are very few homeless. America is now facing homeless crisis.

[@PM2024-]

Yet the WSJ didn’t mention that IP theft and dumping are the tactics China loves most. Both violations of international trade policy 🇨🇳 the CCP must be funding them 📰

[@watb8689]

i would say no point competing with china for the sake of installing more solar panel. It is more of where do you need to channel all these energy to. US doesn't even have much used unlike China where the population are concentrated, using EVs and train. US is a car country even the rails are not using electric, population are dispersed far and wide. US energy needs are different. Even if US bring back the Solar panel manufacturing, how much is US willing to pay these workers and what market US seek to explore. Better to work with China to go to space and move the human population, US cna pave the way for high end research, then we can have unlimited market for solar panel, earth is pretty much quite full these days

[@blufilmsesa]

I remember seeing a post where china put solar panels on a mountain and they got major criticism for ruining the environment lul

[@yaoliang1580]

Enjoy your fake news propaganda

[@emypena]

US manufacturing may have the materials to produce solar panels but doesnt have capacity to produce it cheap.

[@amandagrant4331]

The United States is not suitable for developing manufacturing. Labor costs are too high and trade unions are strong. There is no reason to make it in the United States unless it can only be made in the United States.

[@superphi]

No way the US should try to compete with China in manufacturing solar panel, it’s not worth the time cause u r already behind and no way will u be able to beat them in prices

[@MrGatorress]

Good point. You are right 👍👍

[@EdwardCheung1]

Compete with the enemy with what YOU are good at, not what the enemy is good at.

[@gratus9435]

US is good at destorying, while China is good at building

[@Thekidisalright]

Yah, keep thinking they are the enemy and you have to beat them at all cost while the country is forever in limbo, such great idea.

[@guojunma9802]

compete school shooting? !

[@thevictor180]

Or... If this isn't too radical of an idea... they worked TOGETHER

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

Oh yeah, in that case, America is already beating China by a mile in many metrics. Number of governments overthrown, number of wars started, number of people actually killed from genocide, number of politicians bought by MIC, etc.

[@mannudwivedi7518]

In complete reporting...no words aBout new technology breakthrough

[@kevinjenner9502]

Under Obama Boeing was given a solar panel contract. They farmed out the construction of the panels to the lowest bidder and pocketed the remaining cash.

[@Thekidisalright]

How are we going to blame China if you tell is this fact.

[@kevinjenner9502]

“Yellow Peril” rhetoric is the job of the WSJ.

[@user-qw1er2ty3ui4o]

Subcontracted solar panels to China. Subcontracted aluminum body panels to Russia. Subcontracted software engineering to India. Cash utilized for stock buybacks. All exposed in aftermath of Boeing 737-Max scandal. Media wants to blame other countries for doing actual work, instead of Wall St. encouraging the selling out of America. Hollywood screenwriter’s protesting against A.I.-written scripts barely getting a mention.

[@timanderson5981]

China's government is not dissimilar to how the US government used to be 80 years ago, when under FDR, etc., it was able to organize at scale and marshall the productive forces of an entire country towards national goals. This is how large infrastructure projects got built. But this era is long over for the US. Ever since the changes in the 1980s, that era isn't coming back. It is now China that can do the large-scale forward-looking planning, organizing and marshalling. For the past decades, the only thing the US government can do well is build weapons. It is currently mired in a proxy war in Ukraine, supported by tens of billions of taxpayers dollars. Meanwhile, the US can't even control its own borders. How does any of this benefit the average person in the US? Might as well erase the US federal government and start again from scratch.

[@georgemaximus694]

The United States is extremely good at manufacturing fiat currencies by printing lots of them. That’s we get an extremely all time high stock market and hot housing market!!

[@Trgn]

Stimulus printing during Covid was all time high, now so is inflation 🥶

[@cyberslim7955]

0:10 No, it was Germany with the EEG, which powered the solar panel industry...

[@d_lollol524]

US should ramp up regardless to reduce dependency on foreign countries .

[@angus7278]

It can’t ramp up. Capitalism only responds to a guarantee of big profit. That’s why the USA got so far behind in the first place.

[@fswatyahoocom]

too expensive to install solar panels in the States. installation causes more money than the panels. really unfortunate.

[@a9udn9u-vanced]

This shows how shortsighted American policy makers are, in comparison to their Chinese counterparts.

[@amandagrant4331]

In fact, the profit of this industry is not high so far. American policymakers prefer the financial industry, which is profitable and easy.

[@a9udn9u-vanced]

@@amandagrant4331 Which confirms their shortsightedness once again.

[@alexng5056]

can we not be that double standard?

[@kenchan8099]

US: holy shxt the new tech is grabbing my job! Stop it and keep me my job! China: wow that's new technology! Let's learn how to use it improve my job!

[@maxchen7229]

Let’s trade and work together for the mankind and our planet!

[@garfield2742]

US talks, China act 😊

[@marsspacex6065]

The generation capacity data seems to be confused between capacity and generation. Also its not showing rooftop solar in the USA.

[@spencerl-yf6bg]

Home solar panels are a bad investment from my perspective, even with the tax incentives. High installation costs, decreased efficiency over time, little resale value, and my utility company doesnt pay out for surplus electricity.

[@johngalt1927]

It’s garbage un-economical wishful thinking. It never has been economical and it’s not dense enough to be viable on a large scale. We need dense energy sources to grow this country.

[@udishomer5852]

This computation is specific for each person/family. Its based on: Solar panels cost per kWh, cost of installation, incentives you get from the state/federal government, price you pay per kWh, price you can receive per kWh you send to the grid, and interest rates.

[@Ayo22210]

Thin film solar on standing seam metal roof should be the horse we saddle and ride into the future on

[@JigilJigil]

Actually It's pretty easy to manufacture polysilicon/solar cells/solar panels, and you have to keep in mind that at the first place the solar technology was transferred from US to China, and still US labs and startups lead the solar technologies, the problem is US gov is hesitant to have high tariffs on solar cell and solar panel import, it makes US companies reluctant to do the manufacturing themselves.

[@LLee0]

US beats China in innovation. China beats US in manufacturing.

[@billshi6005]

Doing something in lab is totally different from mass producing something and make it commerically competitive😂

[@kevinlin4895]

If it's so easy why do you need tariffs?

[@surplusking2425]

Next title suggestion : The Chinese Invention Dominated by US: Guns, Compass and Steel

[@rorytribbet6424]

We absolutely can, but we need massive infrastructure investment and we need republicans to realize that advancing the industries of the present and future is an act of putting America first and is an act of bolstering national security.

[@johngalt1927]

Solar and other quote on quote ‘green energies’ are not economical and never have been. They’re not high in energy density. We should focus on dense energy sources that work, bring down the cost of energy, which will spur economic boom. We should double our export of hydrocarbons and pursue much more nuclear.

[@jetli740]

your next challenge is can you complete with china in price for the same enegry rating panel? joe down the road will not buy usa panel if it 20-30 $ more expensive per panel

[@blackrock1404]

Innovation war❤

[@CesarAnton]

The problem is that Republicans loves coal and oil...

[@Semper_Iratus]

So do you guy.

[@indian_toilet]

Two political parties in USA are clowns

[@johngalt1927]

The problem is hydrocarbons are actually economical, energy dense, and not to mention built the West. These “renewables” are expensive, extremely non-dense, and not economical. Europe cannot even keep the lights on and yet we want to kill our economy with this insane thinking…

[@CesarAnton]

@@Semper_Iratus no I don't, I live in Manhattan so I don't even need a car. Subway, public bikes and my legs are all my family needs.

[@temper44]

@@CesarAnton Then you get your power from the Indian Point nuclear plant, just 36 miles up the river.

[@manimalworks7424]

Printing money is much easier.

[@thomasbezuidenhout6201]

canadian solar is also chinese , this author clearly doesnt even know their basics

[@indian_toilet]

Canadian land is brown. Not white

[@khederahmadi6830]

I don’t understand how USA, number one economy, when China, the leader of every single things in this planet I don’t get it😅

[@gunsofaugust1971]

I appreciate the effort you are making in a foriegn language, but to an English-speaker your comment does not make sense.

[@bartholomewsitoh7492]

Its best the america keeps to what it does best and what it profits from the most: continue expanding america's military budget and further strengthen its military industrial complex. The payoffs in creating international deceit/discord and seeding wars and selling weapons and security contracts make the earnings from any other honest industrial undertakings a pale comparison. No point turning back after decades of honing its military competence to such top notch super power

[@danielli9167]

haha. it is sad. but it is true.

[@amandagrant4331]

That is the fact

[@MrGatorress]

What about Afganistan war??? What about Irak war??? The USA militar industires are very innefficient.....

[@MaxWright7]

Where in the world is that place shown at 1:10?

[@hyuxion]

Industrial Policy is a fancy word these days, the leftists in developed countries have been pushing to de-industrialize to have a 'green' environment. Well, Amish people are very environment friendly, they use buggy instead of cars, no electricity no cell phone whatsoever, why not live like Amish.

[@danielli9167]

haha... they do have elections... politicians buy votes or lie to get votes.

[@MrGatorress]

😂😂😂