The Ancient Jedi Order - Everything We Know So Far

[@darth5039]

All I want is a bunch of jedi fighting a bunch of mandalorian on screen. Then I can die in peace.

[@arennotaaron8674]

Haha oath

[@uphero5872]

Do you think the brain worms from TCW episode “Brain Invaders” mentally affected Barriss Offee? Maybe it contributed to her decision to bomb the Jedi temple? Idk, imao, begging your friend to kill you seems to imply psychological damage.

[@MarcMagma]

The first mistake the Jedi made (after deciding to ban the Dark Side) was to ally themself with the Republic. This made them servants of one galactic power sacrifizing their neutrality.

[@OmegaPirateC]

Cept they were the only 'galactic power' so it's not like the Jedi had options to choose from. And if they'd decided to not ally themselves with the Republic, I doubt they would be able to do much of anything (they'd probably be, at best, a small underground group with little to no influence across the Star Wars Galaxy).

[@Yehoshua66]

@@OmegaPirateCso true. both of you are right. it was a terrible predicament.

[@panmpap4679]

I hope Revan is back in the new canon. Started replaying KOTOR a couple of days ago, and would love an Old Republic with him.

[@Wren4123]

They haven't made better Star wars games since kotor 1 and 2

[@saltysnowflake5832]

Panagiotis Papatheodorou Seeing as they’ve mentioned “Jedi crusaders” in canon, I think it’s extremely likely.

[@panmpap4679]

Dude I see you everywhere Indeed it is. Revan has been almost canon so far 3 times. In TLJ with that red crystal, in the Obi-Wan/Anakin comic where a Dark Jedi/Sith looks awfully like him, and in Clone Wars in Mortis.

[@TheGoldenFighter]

@@saltysnowflake5832 Nice name by the way man, heh.

[@Mobysimo]

I hope we get a Revan like character (if not Revan himself) a force user who left the order and found true balance in the force, not being afraid to use either the light or the dark.

[@Cubs1719]

i honestly thought thats where ezra's story was going...maybe it still will

[@Dragonmont]

Revan didn’t use both sides of the force at the same time. He’s just a powerful force user who was a Jedi turned Sith. Nothing really special in the SW universe since there’s characters who literally have the same story but are told in different ways (Vader and Ulic Qel-Droma).

[@jeeshadow1]

I doubt we will see a force user that can successfully use both as in the new canon (and pretty sure in Lucas' original intent) the Dark Side is not actually good at all. Balance is achieved by understanding and accepting the Dark parts of you, but not using them.

[@bickle8931]

That contradicts the whole premise of the skywalker saga

[@emmerichkoller6073]

Lucas He actually did use both post KOTOR

[@sonicguyver7445]

I think there were some great moments in the Jedi Academy game that pointed to a better sense of balance. After the tutorial course Jayden it angry at his fellow student Rosh for trying to stop him from finishing. Katarn tells him, "It's normal to feel upset but don't let that feeling consume you." That pointed to the idea that just because you have negative feelings they don't define you.

[@ADDOITALLDAY]

This is an era that is wide open and a lot can be done with it. Awesome work as always Alex.

[@mitchellhayward6492]

*Star Wars fan sees bald guy.* Star Wars fan: "Yup, that's Snoke alright..."

[@LEB-po7rw]

maybe that's also why so many were / are thinking snoke is mace windu

[@erin_3569]

But, the Ordu Aspectu wasn't killed by the jedi but by the robots controlled by "True Rur", right ?

[@mangrove]

That "60 years" scared me for a sec. I was 5 months old when Star Wars debuted in the theaters, and, doing some quick, albeit poor, mental math, I was like"Wait, 60? Did I go to sleep for 20 years or something?"

[@khronokraze]

I believe the Jedi of the Old Republic should live up to their legend and reputation for being the "good" guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. That's why they still hold this general image 1000s years later in the SW era we are most familiar with and know now in the films. But, as you are talking about, I believe they are not infallible and it will show conflict and drama in those respects.

[@ChazzKaskes]

I really love your work. Thanks for putting out such great and thorough content.

[@ATATChat]

Ive been waiting for this kind of video. Thank the lord. Good stuff. I always felt that the portrayal of the Jedi in the PT is supposed to make us go...DUDE its ok to have emotions. Anakins failure to repress his is proof of that hubris.

[@silver_valentine]

The book "Dawn of the Jedi: Into the void" kinda goes into the philosophy and mindset of the Je'daii Order. It's not a great book, but the lore and snippets from various ancient texts makes it worthwhile.

[@Wren4123]

Yeah, i tried listening to the audiobook and it lbored me pretty bad

[@MCLegoboy]

So have you ever looked at all the lines orbiting around and intersecting inside the temple with the Prime Jedi? They are very similar to those found on Lothal and I wouldn't doubt that it is another entry point into the World Between Worlds with that depiction of the Prime Jedi being the gateway. I just don't know how exactly it would open since we have only ever had the one example given to us in Rebels. And if the gateway was opened, would the water that fills that depiction fall in, or is it another freaky Force thing like the Mirror Cave where physics gets a little funny?

[@jameswilliams3038]

I imagine the ancient Jedi kind of like the Knights Templar and the Crusades. The intention is noble, but the execution and the method used to reach their goal is warped and twisted, just like the Jedi of the prequels

[@diamondarrow4567]

James Williams Watch your mouth about the crusades buddy.... you are always within crusading distance

[@Wiseguy1138]

I absolutely love this speculation & subscribe to your views with this too! I really hope we start to explore the ancient Jedi & ancient Sith. I want more of those stories and how these two groups shaped the galaxy.

[@neilmurphy966]

3:42 looks like version of Guernica by Pablo Picasso!! And 4:04 looks like a Surrealist painting..? lol

[@jeffmiller6025]

One of the primary issues in the language of SW is the confusion of light and dark with Lightside and Darkside. This is explicitly dealt with in the Mortis and Yoda arcs of TCW. To look at the Mortis example: In the first episode of the arc Anakin is given a test to seek how he is going to balance the Force. He rightly refuses to choose between saving Obi-Wan and saving Ahsoka, but then chooses to balance the Force via brute force, bringing the light and dark into a static form of balance. When this happens the floor of the testing ground turns full dark. This means that the Darkside is *not* an ontological or metaphysical reference to the dark, but a philosophical stance that sees balance in terms of stasis. Hence, the Darkside notion of “peace” (like “justice,” a synonym for balance) is static order. This is shown politically by Darksiders always attempting to create authoritarian regimes, rejecting uncontrollable differences, etc. In the Yoda arc, on the other hand, we find Yoda explicitly coming to terms with his darkness thereby dissolving it’s “evil” in favor of simply the natural flux of light and dark. He finds that refusing the dark aspects of himself is one of the ways that those dark aspects become evil as opposed to just normal and natural and always in flux with light. The implication here, of course, is that light also becomes evil this way. This means that the Lightside is also not an ontological or metaphysical signifier but a philosophical stance that sees balance in terms of flux. Hence, the Lightside notion of “peace” is dynamic order. This is shown politically by Lightsiders supporting democracy, differences, change, etc. To me, understanding this opens up why the PT Jedi fail. As both the Mortis and Yoda arcs specifically (as well as the PT and TCW more generally) show, the Jedi have become static and hidebound. And while trying not to be evil, they lean to hard on the light and thus become exploitable by the Sith. This dynamism of Lightside philosophy is shown in the Taiji-like Prime Jedi symbol. While Darkside philosophy could be symbolized not only by a full dark symbol, but also a full light symbol or a symbol in which light and dark are portrayed statically. As a final note, the non-Darkside nature of the ontological-metaphysical dark is confirmed in the Mortis arc when the Father specifically refers to the Son as falling to the Darkside, indicating the distinction. Of course, the Sister then points out that it’s not the Son’s fault it is his nature. However, prior to Anakin’s failure during the test, the Son-while slightly creepy-followed the Father’s orders, responded, that is, to balance. I believe this indicates that part of what makes dynamic balance is that the dark tends toward stasis while the light tends toward movement. In the sense of dynamic balance, this would mean that stasis is not static but restful, that there is movement even in rest and thus a bit of light within darkness. And, conversely, movement is not manic, that there is rest even in movement, and thus a bit of dark in lightness. It is only when one utterly dominates (and thus introduces functional stasis), or when they are statically balanced, that we get evil. This is further shown by the Jedi, in their dynamically balanced states, able to lovingly and compassionately loose their attachments to living in particular forms in favor of continued dynamism after death, achieving a form of immortality. And are thus able to continue helping the world. While the Sith, in their static states, are completely fearful of loosing their particular forms of living and thus seek for controllable and static forms of immortality. And thus always attempt to control and dominate the world.

[@brynstarkiller7419]

The clone wars Jedi became soldiers and many pad swans that weren’t ready or maybe wouldn’t have ever become Knights were given the rank in the battlefield

[@Gabrigattin]

I can't wait to find out more about this stuff in the upcoming spin-off trilogies, either the one by Benioff and Weiss or Rian Johnson

[@vermontmike9800]

The mural doesn’t display an angel and devil, but Ashla and Bogan.

[@wardlafferty362]

To find balance in the Force...acceptance of both sides is a must...the ancient Jedi must've started out balanced as time passed they drifted more towards dogmatic beliefs.

[@Graghma]

I totally agree that they seem to be going in a 'balance is paramount' direction. The animated series has been pushing this for a long time, esp with Ahsoka (my fav)

[@dominiccourtois4415]

You know what would have been a great twist, if Ahch-To was just some random temple.

[@capkhi5070]

I love how philosophical you get with the reality of dark side and balance topic

[@brianmunguia3250]

Honestly I think that the further away from Ach-To they got the further light they got, and once they set up on Courascant they stayed light focus to cleanse the dark side in the area

[@3haljordan]

The Jedaii Order should also be featured in the new trilogy, to show the shared origin of the Jedi and Sith.

[@UraiFen44444444]

Nice Video :)

[@T-2856]

I hope the new trilogy by the GOT showrunners covers the formation of the Jedi and Sith.

[@aliceinthewired]

They don't deserve to cover such a pivotal era. They should only be allowed to tell obscure side stories that have no ties to the main conflicts.

[@morrisho6450]

@@aliceinthewired why they don't deserve?

[@aliceinthewired]

@@morrisho6450 Seasons 5-7 of GoT have been mediocre at best. The men who wrote the Done story line and had Little Finger killed off without him attempting to outsmart Sansa aren't worthy of such a story.

[@SADS131313]

Could you make a video about the cuy val dar

[@delarkaBCN]

SW is like Ancient Rome History. We barely new the fall of the Republic, then the Empire. Alex,Molly, would you think there were ancient planetary kings who'd became senators? (and later... back as moffs?). Never thought this far the evident paralelism with Ancient Rome, just thought it was "occidental culture" influenced. GREAT vid, hope in a few months you could do a larger, suppa extended one with the new information that may befall on us :)

[@pcrocomo]

I don't think the dots at the sholders ot the prime jedi are something like an angel or a devil but more like a point of transition, the dark becoming the light and the light becoming the dark

[@JasonWolfGames]

What were some of the comics you used when you showed the Jedi and Sith?

[@sharkfinbite]

We need more expanded material exposing Jedi being stubborn, stuck in their ways, and so assure of themselves. We hear about it but we are not seeing more of it in the stories like we should. Putting more exposure of this in more material will help convey to the audience why they fell and more of a understanding of Anakin's frustrations with the Jedi and additional motivations for why he wanted to join the Sith to destroy it

[@elijahwatson3474]

Clone Wars added Anakin betrayal towards the Jedi Order perfectly. Especially with Ashoka trail and Obi-Wan fake death.

[@goyantanuki6554]

I'm not sure I want The Old Republic in Canon, It's gonna be super different from Legends Old Republic and lot of you Old Republic die hards are gonna reject it. I don't want to see more of this strife in Star Wars.

[@gary24fan]

Agreed, though to hear many of them talk they claim to be "done" with "Star Wars" so it's a bit curious to me we are still hearing from them. LOL.

[@bickle8931]

Let them reject it, let them have fun with their fan fic

[@jonathanward3633]

I've been thinking since the new trilogy started that it would be interesting for Anakin's spirit to somehow reach enlightenment based on his experiences of being fully exposed to the dark side under Palpatine's hate and the light side from Luke's love, and then bring a true understanding of balance in the force to the new Jedi order, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Although perhaps I've over thought it 😀

[@Justin-ph4ty]

The “Prime Jedi” reflects the past with the “Je’daii Order.” They believed in achieving Bendu, or balance. Their home planet had 2 moons, one was bathed in light known as Ashla. The other was shrouded in darkness, known as Bogan. The two spheres on the Prime Jedi’s shoulders represent those moons since the Je’daii believed the moons symbolized the light side (Ashla) & dark side (Bogan). If a member of the Je’daii were to veer to far to light or dark they would be sent to either moon until they came back to balance, or “Bendu.”

[@brambo3011]

So, if the Jedi were wrong to be front-line generals (I personally don't think they were), than what role should they have played in the war? They are meant to guard peace, so if they aren't fighting perceived enemies of peace, what should they be doing? Sitting around while the Dooku uses the droid army and separatist council to commit atrocities and war crimes to discredit the Separatist Senate? I think being involved in the war is fine, the bigger problem is as Alex said, them being too afraid of the dark side, as if it were a phobia or disease to be shunned and cast away. But even then, one who fully embraces the light alone is not wrong so long as they accept the existence and power of the dark. An ideal order, imo, would have members that either were solely light (Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Luke, etc. for example) and some that could balance light and dark for good (Anakin as the chosen one, Mace Windu, Revan, Ahsoka, etc.).

[@elliotkouame3849]

The Jedi are heroes. That is all that needs to be said. They do the best they can for everyone, which makes them as close to perfect as can be.

[@johnchandler271]

We need to know how and where the Jedi started- why did the Sith come about - yin - yang balance. Thanos is into balance.

[@robland3253]

John Chandler half the republic will be snapped

[@99jarjarbinks]

Very good speculations, Alex. Can't wait to finally get into the ancient history of the Canon Universe once we fully are there.

[@wardlafferty362]

The stuff they've seeded already [Tahr Vizsla {Rebels},rally master armor & ancestral weapons from clans Ordo & Wren {Solo}] hint strongly at this happening.

[@gasaholic47]

The mosaic...Yin and yang....It looks like a sitting Buddha to me.

[@bencebotye3904]

I loved the Golden Age of the Sith comics. I was never so in the Expended Universe books, but Kevin J Anderson co-write Dune sequels, what I much familiar with. The Conan the Barbarian look made the climate different to feel new. The Lords of the Sith was terrified from the Jedi, and after an incident, one of them, Nagga Sadow used they fears in conquest against the Core Worlds. The Jedi had its own controversial decisions, like aiding Empress Teta to "unite" the Core. Also the public opinion about the Jedi was like these shaman/monk wizards, more like the Istari after the fall of Mordor. Still they show the power of the Force, sometimes, like Ooroo, a jellyfish looking Jedi knight. I wish we have something like that, even in comic form!

[@bencebotye3904]

@@arvelcrynyd6311 I think Marvel published them under two omnibus in couple years ago. I don't live in America, instead download a digital version of the first one!

[@usctrojans001]

I would Love to go Back 1,000 Years or More to the Beginning. The Start of the Jedi Order and Break away Sith.

[@gary24fan]

Your statement regarding when feelings of fear and anger become a problem when they control your mood all the time sort of sums up where some members of the "Star Wars" fan base are today, unfortunately.

[@Blackpearlmatt]

It seems they too were warriors like in the clone wars (Ahsoka’s armour is from the old republic) but they probably were more spiritual than the prequel era. It seems just several events made them purge any part of the dark side, Malachor or maybe the 100 year war but either way they most certainly lost their way as Luke mentioned in the Last Jedi

[@Sondergirl1610]

"Some people say the mosaic looks like snoke ... " By some people , I assume you mean mike zeroh ? Then his viewers

[@lordofpain3476]

The Jedi created the Sith , then tried to destroy them .

[@KEVMAN7987]

I want to see the Jedi before the light/dark split in a movie or TV series.

[@tjt6071]

What books/comics do you recommend for the best Sith-focused stories?

[@Penguin-lc3eg]

I think they should be represented exactly as they are in legends old republic. Make new stories but dont change everything that's already been established like the sith empire fighting the galactic republic

[@elijahwatson3474]

Um no given the way too advanced technology especially with the mmo. Also I really didn’t like how Revan and Exile stories in the MMO. There hints there was a Sith Empire of sorts. Also I would enjoy not see the Jedi as the Republic dogs like they was most of the time in legends.

[@Penguin-lc3eg]

@@elijahwatson3474 well that's your opinion. The technology piece I understand but that can easily be explained as being just weaker versions of the same ideas. Besides before the clone wars there was 1000 years of peace were much of the military knowledge could have been lost and no advancements were made. And as for revan and exile they could totally redo those stories

[@elijahwatson3474]

Penguin Nah some technology was way too advanced and felt too much like the Prequels at times. The Prequels Republic did have a small navy but need a massive army like the Clones. I don’t see thousands of years being given that in real life we have records from the Roman Empire and longer. There obviously archives of the ancient wars.

[@Penguin-lc3eg]

@@elijahwatson3474 that's kinda my point. They know how the old republic technology works but they have not improved it at all since there was no need.

[@elijahwatson3474]

Penguin That seem like extremely lazy world building to me. I enjoy Canon showing us the improvement of technology. I want to see change in stuff not everything staying the same. I read comics and I seen how bad when characters don’t like characters change.

[@brambo3011]

In my opinion, besides what they've already made canon and created, I don't think much of the legends Old Republic content needs to be fully reworked. Adapted, perhaps, to a degree, but ideally I think the Benioff and Weiss trilogy should explore Revan in a slightly modified form to fit with what we know in canon. The KOTOR games and their stories, imo, would fit perfectly as their own trilogy, with some adaptations, but mostly I want Revan. in whatever comes out of the new trilogy.

[@garydignam5414]

But wasn't the original jedi called the je'daii order? and balance was through Ashla and Bogan ?

[@Dragonmont]

The Je’daii comics are badly written tbh, glad it’s not canon anymore.

[@Kitamora]

That's Legends canon. Though, Ashla and Bogan were referenced in Rebels.

[@Umbradomo]

For me it's all comes down to the Dawn of the Jedi Graphic Novel. I do hope that his series shows up in one of the new shows or movies that is coming up in the furutre.

[@kineuhansen8629]

maybe they could be like the temble knight from earth

[@tugroti66]

A five and a half minute long video on the new canon after just barely getting off Taris in seven hours in Kotor just feels tragic.

[@corvus2512]

THIS! This is what TLJ shouldve been, atleast Lukes part. In TFA we are told he went in search of something and he left a map to his location, so it makes no sense for him to then say “i didnt want to be found. I came here to die” WHYD YOU LEAVE A MAP THEN?? Lukes journey in the sequel trilogy shouldve been him restructuring the jedi. On his journey in search of something he shouldve found abunch of ancient jedi texts and realized that yoda and obiwan were wrong, that true balance is using the light and the dark. This then sets rey up to be the first in this new more balanced force using order and it totally shakes up the status quo of the force and future stories could take that and further explore it. Ive loved everything this new era of star wars has brought except TLJ, i just felt it was such a missed opportunity to do something new and exciting in a saga film that actually changes the direction. The film we got just keeps everything as is.

[@OperationSpider]

You know who would be a great force user to explore both the light and the dark with? Revan. Make him canon Disney.

[@HideousConformity]

The Jedi and Sith both made the same fundamental mistake: they embraced one half of the Force and rejected the other, and despite that they still expected to master it.

[@jacenskywalker507]

I think I came up a great idea for combining the history of the Jedi Order from Canon and Legends. To start off, the first ever Force Order that we know of in Star Wars was the Order of Dai Bendu that was established on the planet Tython. Next it transitioned into​ the Je'daii Order. Over the next few thousand years and after the splintering of the Je'daii during The Force Wars, the final Grand Master of the Je'daii Order left Tython to explore the greater Known Galaxy and Universe. He/she could have found the planet of Ahch-To in a sector of the Unknown Regions close to the western rim of the Known Galaxy. This Force-user would create the new Jedi Order and construct the first ever Jedi Temple on Ahch-To to attempt to create a more perfected Je'daii Order, and would become known throughout history as The Prime Jedi. After more time had passed, The Prime Jedi has passed away and his/her first and greatest student who had served as a Master on the Jedi High Council, becomes the next Grand Master of the Jedi Order. The new Grand Master decides that the Order should return back to the Known Galaxy and leave behind any teachings on Ahch-To. But, not before they create a Jedi Temple on Ilum that was an entry way into the Crystal Cave where Younglings, during The Gathering, could acquire their Kyber crystals to construct their Lightsabers. Thus they returned ​to the Known Galaxy and created Jedi Temples on Tython, Ossus, and Coruscant. However, things wouldn't be working out well as a few thousand years after the creation of the Jedi Order and the death of The Prime Jedi, the Order would begin to crumble just as its predecessor did. With the first course of action being the Jedi Order only using and following the Light Side of the Force. The first sign of a splinter or schism would be by the Legions of Lettow led by Xendor as he and his followers desired to use the Dark Side of the Force in conjunction with the Light Side, leading to The First Great Schism. After the deaths of Xendor and his followers there would be The Second Great Schism and The Hundred Year Darkness that would follow after it. Until Ajunta Pall and multiple Dark Jedi Exiles that followed him were exiled off into the farthest reaches of the Known Galaxy leading to their arrival on Korriban and becoming the Dark Lords of the Sith Order and the Sith Pure-Blood species. And then you can go on from there. It's not a 100% true perfect masterpiece, but it's something.

[@OmegaPirateC]

It's funny that the Jedi in the Prequel era get a lot of flak for fighting on the front lines in the Clone Wars, when in the Mandalorian Wars they got similar flak for trying to keep out of it. Heck, when Revan and Malak defied the council and joined the war in much the same capacity the jedi as a whole do in the Clone Wars, they're considered heroes, and even out of universe it's pretty clearly seen by both fans and the creators as the right decision. So what's wrong with the Jedi in the Clone Wars doing the same thing Revan and Malak did?

[@elijahwatson3474]

The Jedi in the Clone Wars became dogs to the Republic and many planets who join the CIS did because of the corruption of Republic which the order ignored. Revan and Malak also felled to the dark side and cause a massive wound in the force with Shadow Mass Generator. Malak and Revan may stopped the Mandalorians. But they cause a even more horrible fate for the galaxy with their actions.

[@kenlantz4906]

What about the Je'daii and their balance between Ashla and Bogan? I know it's Legends, but if we're just speculating, couldn't they be used as an even earlier part of the Jedi history?

[@elijahwatson3474]

Ashla and Bogan symbols have been shown in canon. Their probably a connection with Je’daii, Jedi, and Sith.

[@kenlantz4906]

@@elijahwatson3474 thought so, wasn't 100% sure, so errored on the safe side. I thought all of it was an early history or at least loose derivative of the ancient and modern Jedi. Might be a good way to explain the Prime Jedi and all what was lost when they strayed from their original purpose and goals.

[@DaringDan]

I'd really be interested in your thoughts on Disney's use of the Force and how it's so haphazard and all over the place. Darth Maul can be cut in half, fall down a seemingly bottomless pit, and sew himself back together with the Force; but then Master Luke Skywalker who we're told is very strong in the Force can't make a projection of himself. Master Yoda lets us know it's no different lifting a rock or a ship so it should be no different making a projection of yourself 5 feet away or across the galaxy and yet that kills the very STRONG Luke Skywalker or did he give up and just decide to die? They really don't seem to have a cohesive plan put together despite having a LOT of people in The Story Group.

[@TylerCharlesFisher]

I'd say that projecting yourself across the galaxy is a bit different than lifting rocks.

[@omegamaximus1727]

Would the Old Republic work as a Live Action Series or a Movie?

[@thewalkingforest5185]

Is the Sith species canon?

[@cpiff100]

Hate leads to suffering...

[@ethanknifsend9775]

I like the idea of the Jedi being unrelenting in their “pure” beliefs, causing more harm than good . For example, when the Mandalorians attacked the republic, the Jedi order chose not to intervene, because they viewed themselves as peaceful guardians of the force; engaging in a war, they feared, could ignite “dark” emotions and would get blood on their hands. Revan, however, disagreed, and disobeyed the council and joined the Republic defense, ruthlessly leading the Republic military and ultimately defeating the brutal Mandalorians (see: Devastation of Ubduria). This could present a moral dilemma: from one point of view, Revan “fell” just as the Jedi expected. He was ruthless and matched the Mandalorian’s ferocity with one of his own. His war killed billions. Yet from another point of view, he saved the republic. Had he not gone to war, the republic would have fallen, and billions more would have died. Had he obeyed the council, the Jedi’s cruel pacifism would’ve sentenced the republic worlds to that fate. Had he not been ruthless, they again would’ve lost. To the Galaxy he’s a hero; to the Jedi he’s a failure. Clearly this is my own interpretation of Revan’s legends backstory, but I would like Disney to make a story that goes beyond “light” and “dark” and strikes down the fallacy of good and evil. That’s what I think they should do with the old republic.

[@AbsolXGuardian]

I feel like without the historical baggage legends has, a lot of the actions of both Luke and Jedi don't carry proper weight. Luke's criticism of the Jedi ring hollow because he doesn't really have much go on. If he could have talked about the actions of the Jedi in the Mandalorian War, their loyalty to peace over justice, and their treatment of Revan and the Exile, things would have been a lot better. He could have drawn comparisons to the old Mandalorians and the First Order. The thousand years under the peaceful Republic probably only existed because of all the injustices the Jedi ignored in the name of peace, like the Hutts. But also the Jedi. In Legends, the real reason the one padawan per mentor rule and no romantic attachments rules existed was to prevent another Jedi Covenant, to keep the Jedi more unified and not have mini-factions inside them, something much more reasonable.

[@elijahwatson3474]

The Prequels and Clone Wars was enough for him to rant off. You know the group that was partly responsible for him never knowing his mother and father?

[@plaidmonkey1962]

A Jedi version of Yin Yang

[@lukerope1906]

The Star Wars version of the Yin Yang can be seen on Mortis

[@guywhoisaguy0960]

If they make an old Jedi order movie I hope they make it like a samurai movie

[@Onewiththestud]

i think in commics they say about one time jedi killed the species sith

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

Both the Jedi and the Sith will be sympathetic characters, but containing aspects of "good" and "evil" while never finding the perfect balance.

[@denniscleary7580]

We can finally get some real good Star Wars movies with the old republic

[@TheGoldenFighter]

Yeah, I guess Obi-Wan was lying in part to Luke to help make the Jedi sound better maybe in order for him to become one?

[@curtislangford3181]

JEDI in the prequels didn't deny emotions. These were concepts introduced outside of George Lucas's philosophy. Mostly from fans and extended universe sources...not from George Lucas himself!

[@eneenecca2975]

if they werent supposed to deny emotions then it was realy badly communicated in the prequels.

[@curtislangford3181]

@@eneenecca2975 the MOST IMPORTANT character in the STAR WARS franchise explains the law of JEDI attachment and possession eloquently and succinctly during ATTACK OF THE CLONES! How was that in ANYWAY confusing or poorly explained?

[@MNGN101]

Not really related to the Jedi, but I'm a bit opposed to the idea of ancient Siths using lightsabers. They were always referred to as "a Jedi's weapon" in the first 6 movies and it wouldn't really make sense to call it that after it has been used by both Jedi and Sith for thousands of years.

[@elijahwatson3474]

9/10 people would recognize a lightsaber as a Jedi weapon during PT and OT times. They can still use lightsabers since during PT and OT eras they was forgotten and only know as myths.

[@MNGN101]

​@@elijahwatson3474The Sith were extinct, but they weren't exactly forgotten. It doesn't make sense when you take into account the thousands of Sith that use lightsabers in the Old Republic games. Not the best example, but in medieval times, you wouldn't really call a sword 'a knight's weapon' just because there weren't as many Roman soldiers anymore.

[@elijahwatson3474]

Minigun101 the Sith Order from both legends and canon was made by wayward Jedi and the hundred years of darkness. The first Sith just took the knowledge of building a lightsaber and put their own twist on it.

[@Evan_Adams]

Height of Power? I think more waning time of power no?

[@azerdraco3146]

The biggest problem with Jedi vs Sith is that BOTH sides are out of balance. The philosophy of both sides tries to eliminate its antithesis. No mortal being can be completely light or dark. There will always be the smallest fraction of the other. This mostly boils down to the fact that Light and Dark define each other. Or, to say it more simply: "Without Evil, Good stagnates. Without Good, Evil turns upon itself."

[@coleviloria3800]

I want KOTOR as a film, set the record straight for what’s cannon and what isn’t.

[@robbycarlson6133]

I mean jedi are basically superheroes in the starwars universe and the sith supervillains

[@Spacebaron2]

Much less the proof of ahch-to being to founding world, I know that the Jedi texts are on ahch-to but there are the archives on Tython (deep core world). The Jedi order formed after a bloody Je’daii civil war between the light and the dark sides with a light side victory

[@jdstudios1912]

I like the Canon history of the jedi but I much prefer the legends history of the sith

[@elijahwatson3474]

Sith history seem similar in canon, but I don’t expect Emperor Vitiate to appear like the mmo.

[@Dragonmont]

Canon Jedi history is so much better then Legends but yeah I’ll agree I prefer the Legends reasoning for the Sith Order. I don’t like Vitiate though so God I hope he isn’t brought back into canon, he’s a Sidious wannabe who is somehow responsible for the Mandalorian Wars.

[@elijahwatson3474]

Lucas We don’t know the exact Sith reasoning in canon. There was a Hundred years of Darkness but that it. I don’t recall any major changes of the Sith history in canon for now.

[@bickle8931]

There really isnt any sith history

[@jdstudios1912]

@@bickle8931 surprisingly there are several stories surrounding the sith in Canon the issue is they're always presented as hints rather than straight up facts.

[@Shermos]

I'm going with the theory that the original Jedi embraced a balance between light and dark, one or a few fully embraced the dark which the mainstream jedi tried to reign in, resulting in the split that lead to the founding of the Sith order. The remaining jedi reacted by turning purely toward the light. It's possible they thought this was necessary to achieve balance in the force and became more zero sum in their thinking as the centuries went on.

[@Lightguardian_HOH]

It's literally the Yen and Yang symbol

[@benslawyer18]

So... is Tython not canon then? I'll be honest I'm really confused about what TOR stuff crosses over into the new canon :p

[@elijahwatson3474]

Tyhon seem to be a important place for the Jedi during the early days but not their birthplace.

[@DarkraiNewmoon]

Tython and Ossus are both Canon and important in the Jedi's pain in Canon, but not their origin point like in Legends.

[@theoheiland6807]

From my point of view, it’s equally as dangerous to fall towards the Light Side. Falling to the Dark Side happens more because the Sith exist. But it seems like the Jedi of the prequel era were actually falling to the Light Side.

[@yesnoism]

the prophecy has been fulfilled...

[@RG2088]

I really think they shouldn't change too much from what we know i like the 5000 to 3000 years before the the movies timeline and the origins i hope in time we actually get to see the actual Sith race in live action.

[@TigerofRobare]

The Prime Jedi symbol reminds me a lot of the Yin-Yang and the Force is very comparable to Qi. It seems to me that the writers are attempting to retain the metaphysical dualism of the Force while breaking the moral dualism. Essentially, previous efforts to see the Light Side and Dark Side as moral categories and the Balance of the Force as indicating a moral equivalence is undermined by the films themselves, which by and large show that things like peace, freedom and democracy are Good, but tyranny, genocide and oppression are Evil and that Evil must be opposed and defeated, not merely balanced. I think that what they're trying to get us to think is that morality is about persons and choices, while the Force simply is. Saw Gerrara showed us that not all Rebels are good, while the stories of the Jedi indicate that Light Side users can be intolerant, judgemental and arrogant. In other words, the Light Side didn't make the Jedi Good and the Dark Side did not make the Sith evil; the Sith chose evil and used the Dark Side to accomplish their goals. We saw on Ach-Toh that death and decay are as much a part of the Force as life and growth -- but death being natural doesn't make murder good.

[@davidthewhale7556]

I kinda want them to do a subtle commentary on some negative aspects of religion

[@supermonkey321]

Except that's NOT what balance in the Force was ever supposed to mean. It was never a balance between the light and dark. That is just a misunderstanding that fans have always had, and now Disney has canonized, which is incredibly frustrating. Lucas never intended it to be interpreted that way. The dark side of the Force IS the imbalance. Darkside users manipulate the Force to their own ends, rather than live in harmony with it. That is the imbalance. Bringing balance to the Force, as the chosen one was meant to do, did NOT mean the light and dark sides being in balance with each other. It meant the destruction of the dark side, which was an aberration. The dark side is, as Palpatine said, unnatural. Only the light side is in harmony with the universe, which is why only the light side is in balance. The issue about whether emotions should be accepted or suppressed is another issue.

[@chomper720]

The jedi did crusades?! OwO

[@Mailrobot]

Well, its not about "not denying your dark side", because that's not what Jedi do. The Jedi life is hard because that internal battle is a constant. Where the Jedi Order failed was in their hubris, in their pride in thinking they could not falter, that it wasnt possible that the dark side could return under their noses. I sincerely dont think it was Lucas's intention with that to say we have to use a bit of the dark side and a bit of the light. That's not the concept of balance he is extracting from things like Taoism and Stoicism. Balance is the natural order, the light itself. The dark is what breaks that balance, what makes the hunter want to eat all the prey. But if he eats all the prey, he dies (the dark side has consumed and destroyed him). It isnt about balancing choking people and then helping them: its about the balance of life and nature which gives everything its own place. The dark side is the genocidal who wants to destroy life to serve itself. The dark side is intolerance, and you cant tolerate intolerance, because it would destroy everything that makes tolerance possible. I think people sometimes see it in a very relativist way because we live in a relativist culture, but George Lucas isnt a relativist and he actually makes Palpatine use relativist arguments in Episode III.

[@Yaboisambeezy]

I just want Episode IX to be good.

[@Spacebaron2]

What proof is there that the Jedi were founded on ahah-to, the is is not much there to prove a Jedi presence there except a small Village

[@auntvesuvi3872]

😊

[@jamiedore679]

I don't think so. Not only did the Jedi in the Prequel Era lose their way, Disney and Lucasfilm lost their way too. So I wouldn't be interested in what they have planned. No thanks.

[@williamhodges8902]

I get what you are saying when you say they are human, but a lot of them weren't even human.

[@GALAXIE67]

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