The Attack On Life and Understanding Our Times. A conversation with Iain McGilchrist and Mark Vernon

[@Jane_Alice_Reprise]

Thank you ever so much for your work. I am a Psychotherapist in Germany, having studied at the IOP/King's College in London I remained connected to English Literature, and that is why I came across your book The Master and His Emissary. It changed the way I do therapy massively and patients are benefitting from it enormously, affecting change where in former times years of therapy were needed! Getting the people to feel, be in contact with themselves, excercising wisdom and compassion, knowing about the different ways of attending the world helps to overcome fears and depression in ways not possible using more traditional therapeutic approaches. Many of my patients develop a fulness of experience they weren't able to before the onset of their disorders. Which proves to me that illness can be seen as a search for a way to heal ones life that very often is damaged by societal system failure. But in the same way I experience healing effects using an approach that I developed out of your wisdom, knowledge and a way, to make sense of the meaning of life. It even came to a point where I was trusting my intuition that much that it helped me tackle daily life problems in miraculous ways, showing me that indeed we are connected to something far greater than us out there, which is beyond our physical senses. So thank you very much for your being with us in these most challenging of times. 🙏🌍

[@adg8269]

Very interesting! What’s that approach that you developed? I’m trying to develop a personal practice to incorporate all this in my life.

[@Jane_Alice_Reprise]

@@adg8269 Hi, I start of with psycho education explaining the different ways of attending to situations and General Life questions, while introducing the themes I gently ask for examples, difficult situations around the Problems/Symptoms they present, I ask questions triggering affect and then train them to engage their Body sensations, while using specific Imagination techniques to modify their experience and afterwards training them to Listen to their inside (experiencing the silent voice) to devolop wisdom and compassion to make sense of all they experience. I Hope that Provides a bit of an Overview of how I Go about. Patients feel very seen and appreciated also and stay engaged. This ist Just a rough overview

[@adg8269]

@@Jane_Alice_Reprise That’s sooo interesting, specifically the part about “experiencing the silent voice”. Do you have a medium to share your approach? I’d be interested in learning from your practice! Thanks for taking the time to share!

[@Jane_Alice_Reprise]

Sorry for the grammar, I type using my Phone 😉

[@Jane_Alice_Reprise]

Oh, my answer doesn't seem to appear anymore, I don't know whether this ist because I posted my Email address for writing me If interested in establishing an international zoom intervision group to exchange experiences

[@mickmcmenemy7701]

@15:00 Iain appeals that we all fight back to regain our liberties lost through Government diktats this past 2 years. I absolutely agree and it's so encouraging to hear his practical wisdom on real life current issues.

[@billygugen8104]

Too bad the Leftist totalitarians are in control of the govts , media , hollywood , social media and everything else. The WEF and globalists want absolute power over everything and everyone.

[@NikoHL]

Yes, but bare in mind that Iain is not proselytising for any conservative or RW populism and is talking about our individual lives , not political activism.

[@maureenconsolati6333]

It is a tremendous relief to me to find I am not crazy and that there is a grounding for my feeling of isolation. I find very few people who find the present trajectory of society terrifying. I read Iains first book just after it was published and now it seems prophetic. I am an ex classical ballet dancer which may explain why I am at odds with many people. Thank you for providing a forum where I can feel comfortable.

[@tobiaspersson8263]

I feel exactly like you. Have done so for many years now. This discussion is a breath of fresh air in an era more and more looking like an episode of "Black mirror".

[@tobiaspersson8263]

Terrifying is the word. My friends often say (and think) that I'm a bore, that I´m "afraid of technology"/ old fashioned and stuff like that. It's not that at all. I am deeply concerned that a group of powerful people actively are rushing us all towards a cold, machine loving dystopia where human needs are forgotten we are monitored and contanstly controlled. How can people NOT see this or feel this? It's not a left or right- issue. It should worry us all.

[@maureenconsolati6333]

I think it is an evolutionary problem. Look back in history and also in literature an you will see gradual changes in society and technology leading up to this. We have a terrible dilemma. A too large population threatens the planet but a smaller population threatens the ponsi scheme that is civilization. Early peoples had to live along side nature modern people live outside of it not realizing that we can’t live without it. Yes imagination has withered along with other values. I too am terrified.

[@greensorrel6860]

⁠@@maureenconsolati6333it is a ponsi scheme agreed

[@ammulhare1644]

The ponsi scheme will collapse - that is inevitable.

[@shari6063]

I hypothesize that our intuition is fed by our “periphery “. What I mean by this is that we are always taking in information subconsciously like body language. If we are living in and connected to Nature we are also alerted to things by the activity happening within earshot and attention. We call intuition a “feeling” because it is a kind of spiritual touch. This is truly indicative of being “connected”. Intuition, like all capabilities, must be experienced, practiced, so that discernment can be honed over time. I have come to rely heavily on intuition which for most of my life I distrusted because I didn’t understand that I could cooperate with it.

[@ellencooney5563]

Like being more compliant...with yourself? Freeing idea if we can pull it off :)

[@User0resU-1]

Like the veteran fire fighter in a burning building who suddenly ordered everyone out, on intuition, moments before the place collapsed. His senses were picking up peripheral cues he subconsciously learned over decades, then the totality of them created the intuitive urge to run like hell.

[@jackcrane7853]

@-GinΠΓ Τάο bla bla bla bla bla

[@bradc304]

Yes, Gary Klein has written about this phenomenon with regard to firefighters. I think intuition can be considered advanced pattern recognition.

[@offTheMedsYe]

What's there to hypothesize? This is obviously so. Our senses (afferent neurons) receive all sorts of information, constantly - and not all of it ends up in linguistically conceptualized thoughts (which was/is necessary for survival, as the thinking process would often be too slow). I do agree/relate to the last two sentences. Is that _all_ that's to it? I'm not sure. There's that doc hosted on the cia website that gives info about the gateway process and compares effects to those possible through many years of meditative practices, and basically plugging into other dimensions (incl. OBE's of other dimensions) through the physiological processes/effects associated with those. What I'm trying to get at: Highly attuned individuals might plug into modes of perception that even transcend the described subconscious processing of 3rd dimension environmental stimuli like sounds, observing body language etc. Life's a fascinating mystery, that's for sure.

[@shari6063]

Dr. McGilchrist is a “voice crying in the wilderness “. Thank you so much.

[@bikefarmtaiwan1800]

That was a very thoughtful and necessary conversation .

[@abcrane]

🎄

[@stevenbritt1227]

This wild man with no associations to any institutions and no formal education has been studying finance and law with a solid Foundation. Ill be 35 soon. Ill die for this.

[@abcrane]

@@stevenbritt1227 I feel this YT video hits the nail on the head of a right brain as master understanding of economics Economic "History | How & How NOT to Do Economics with Robert Skidelsky"

[@traviswadezinn]

Very important topics - we must regain our humanity!

[@Happy-tc2jt]

Dear Mr McGillChrist ,I totally agree with you... ironically,it is thanks to technology that we can hear your lovely voice...speaking words of wisdom.humanity is an endangered species... I feel alive when I listen to the Amazing song of a Blackbird....when I bury a seed in the soil and watch it grow ,when I contemplate life unfolding before my eyes...when I see a bee land on a blackberry flower to enjoy it's nectar... When I enjoy eating the fruit that I watched change colour and become soft and sweet ...almost ready to pick .yes we live in a world where children are no longer enchanted by the song of a Blackbird...but yet get excited by the buzz of a twit on their phone....what kind of world do we want to live in?There is much healing to be done for humanity to reconnect to its intuition...to life itself. Thank you Mr McGillChrist,you are an inspiration 💕

[@annebaring5850]

I am reading Matthias Desmet's recent book, The Psychology of Totalitarianism. Its theme fits precisely with what is being discussed here. It, like Iain McGilchrist's recent work, warns us about the change of values that leads to technological control or enslavement of vast populations.

[@festivalonearth]

THE FIRE IN THE SONG (excerpt) He said, "If you only stop singing I'll make you safe." And he repeated the line, knowing you would hear "I'll make you safe" as the comforting sound of a door closed on the fear at last but his darkness crept under your tongue and became the dim cave where you sheltered and you grew in that small place too frightened to remember the songs of the world, its impossible notes, and the sweet joy that flew out the door of your wild mouth as you spoke. - David Whyte

[@tolgacan13]

Iain's ideas are so inspiring and helpful in these mechanical times. Greetings from Turkey.

[@wildwisdom1807]

Thank you. i for one am creating and seeking alternatives. Simplifying lifestyles is the start.

[@CarolBlaneyPhD]

for me, getting rid of my smart phone was both metaphorical and practical and healthy.

[@heatherhall3452]

Same but where are they ? 😪

[@evanhadkins5532]

My wife did a fine art course, she got to the stage where the students were expected to make artists statements about themselves and the work. She referred to this as, "making sh*t up". Which is the best description of it I've heard.

[@starxcrossed]

As an artist I can confirm it’s about the weirdest thing required of artists.

[@sarahalmond4975]

Evan, your wife sounds wonderful and fully grounded and sane! 💗 I’ve found most artists out there have an amazing spin about themselves and their work, usually so over the top and so heavy ......Like they really do take themselves far too seriously!

[@starxcrossed]

@@sarahalmond4975 it’s a hallmark of most artists to feel misunderstood and a psychological need to be different. Those of us who are less aware of this tendency will express it to an embarrassing degree.

[@robindann2988]

Notice written artist statements are only required of visual artists

[@evanhadkins5532]

@@robindann2988 true

[@MrNicholasPower]

Thank you Mark and Iain for exploring these important elements of life. So many nails struck firmly on the head. I am particularly delighted to hear Iain discuss the relevance of his hypothesis to how we dysfunction as a society, I share his concern deeply.

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

I am thankful this came up on my feed. For years Ive been desperate to REALLY talk about these issues but people I was close to suddenly shyed away from these conversations, furthering the existential crisis :/

[@geoffsmith673]

I am of the view that psychopathology is driving much of what we are experiencing. I believe it was Otto Kernberg who discussed how an institution can be impacted by psychopathology at the top of the tree via conscienceless CEOs and directors. It leaves senior and middle managers running around like headless chickens with ennervated limbic systems and the face workers feeling completely powerless and put upon. This appears to me to be an appropriate analogy for our current, collective circumstances.

[@henrikjanssen6966]

Power attracts narcisists, sociopaths and psykopats. Like flies to a dog poo. Don't concentrate power / money.

[@xmaseveeve5259]

Yes. And they are all transgender. Look into it.

[@fentonmulley5895]

It reflects more the limits of our current economic system to achieve fairness than it does about the CEOs themselves. It's more likely the types fall into their niche and adapt. FEWER psychopaths won't solve the problem that causes psychopath-esque actions.

[@michaelglass9604]

In The Rape of The Mind, by Joost Meerloo written in 1956 this idea of psychopathic drive is developed in great detail. It's as if there is an intelligent evil driving certain individuals to denominate others through mass menticide.

[@xmaseveeve5259]

@@michaelglass9604 GARBAGE.

[@simka321]

In my family, there is the story of the way my 17 year old grandfather, who had longed to join the military, signed up for Army service in the early 1930s. On the spot, the recruiter immediately informed him, without a lot of bureaucratic to-do, of his assignment somewhere in Europe. As Grandpa was whistling down the stairs he ran into his buddy, who had also just joined up, and directly told that he would be going to China. “Hey, I’ve always wanted to go to China! Let’s swap assignments,” said my young (future) grandad, at which point both young men hustle back to the recruiting office and make the switch right there on the spot. Long story short: my grandpa eventually winds up meeting my Russian grandma in Shanghai, a meeting without which I never would have been born (at least, not as “me”). Such a turn of events would have been impossible in our technolatrous age, and thus I never would have been.

[@shari6063]

When we try to suppress doubt we are creating evil. I’ll be thinking about this for some time.

[@T11639]

I wonder which book. 'The need for roots', perhaps?

[@User0resU-1]

That struck me too. I like it bc I've always been instinctively repelled by over-certainty. I like saying to folks 'if you ain't confused, you ain't paying attention!'

[@notvadersson]

That’s 20 likes - which makes your statement quantitatively true.

[@shari6063]

@@notvadersson 😎

[@TTSSYF23]

Manipulation by deception is the root. Simply suppressing doubt is not the aim of "evil" (I'm loath to use the word), but rather to suppress the ability to discern reality from fiction. In other words, you can't possibly doubt or question what you don't know exists. The current manipulation by deception regime is at full throttle, while at the same time the number of people who can see through the veils of deception is increasing exponentially. Have no fear, the current mountain of BS is but fertilizer for the growing and uncontainable truth.

[@scottjones-singersongwrite6193]

"The greater the bureaucratization of public life, the greater will be the attraction of violence. In a fully developed bureaucracy there is nobody left with whom one could argue, to whom one could present grievances, on whom the pressures of power could be exerted. Bureaucracy is the form of government in which everybody is deprived of political freedom, of the power to act; for the rule by Nobody is not no-rule, and where all are equally powerless we have a tyranny without a tyrant." Hannah Arendt

[@ruthokelley5833]

This discussion helped me to accept that my ideas are in alignment with this whole discussion. Here in my later years (82), I wondered if it is I ...who is clinging to the past and harboring ideas that seem to be out of sync with the general population. This is true and very isolating to a great degree. But, I finally accepted my way of looking at life and make every attempt to live it from my understanding and not from what I believe will be acceptable to others...especially the masses! This discussion really helped me...I am so in sync, with all of the ideas presented...that I need to question some things...just to be on the save side! Lol

[@PatM1984VivoCristoRey]

Out of sync is probably a good thing. The world is gone nuts.

[@KenMoss2986]

Well said Ruth, clinging on to the past (when common sense was quite popular) I quite agree with you, especially with your open mind and sense of humour.

[@ruthokelley5833]

Thanks.

[@heatherhall3452]

Intuition is GOLD 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 I’m so grateful I have it

[@SightseerNW]

Very encouraging to listen and appreciate two intelligent, intuitive scholarly men who understand the precipice we are all teetering upon and to know they are working to return sanity, our Divine humanity and the beautiful! Thank You 🙏🏻

[@TennesseeJed]

Man, we sure need a conversation like this!

[@penelopehill9710]

This beautifully orchestrated conversation resounds with good vibrations . . . uplifting in face of impersonal evils.

[@twmsioncati585]

I am very interested in what you state about power and control. I am in my late 50's and I have certainly noticed the change. Brace yourself for a generalisation: When I was starting in the world of employment, it was certainly far from perfect. People got jobs because of factors and influences that we would now certainly, and rightly, reject. We might also reject the hierarchy and structure of authority that existed then. However, there were certain advantages to the "old" system. Firstly, tasks were largely done out of a sense of personal responsibility to the group and to oneself. Decisions were obeyed because of seniority, yet, but also out of a certain type of respect. How the system has changed. Now the 'Disciplinary,' or threat of a 'Disciplinary,' is the stick that beats the workforce into compliance. Sadly, constantly working under this threatening cloud can have an overwhelmingly deadening impact on creativity and camaraderie with ones fellow employees. There is also a tendency to feel as if you work for a process, rather than for a team or for an individual you respect. Fear, in short, is the order of the day. It has almost got the point when all the employees I respect have been 'disciplined' at least twice. They are the people who tend to demonstrate common decency and initiative. The type of qualities that can get you into real trouble with the power structure backed by HR, ever out to justify its ever-expanding empire.

[@geoffsmith673]

Agree. I whistleblew because the job meant more to me than the pay and certainly the system. Was successful in raising major concerns. Left in the end

[@MyName-tb9oz]

I was around when the, "Human Resources," department came into being. Prior to that it was called the Personnel Department, or some similar term. It's such an odd term if you stop and think about what it means. But you have to stop and think about the meaning and implications of the word, "resources," don't you? The amoral corporate entity considers human beings to simply be, "resources." In the same way that it considers steel or concrete or wheat to be a resource. You don't think about how much satisfaction a billet of steel has in its own existence, do you? It would be ridiculous to ask if the steel, "wants," to be made into a sword or a plough. And it is, from the perspective of the sociopathic (Yes. I *know* the 'technical' term is psychopath. Sociopath is a much more accurate descriptive term, though.) corporation, equally ridiculous to ask about the desires of the human resource. They exist to perform a function in a specified manner. The real dehumanization caused by that term is quite large.

[@margaretwebster2516]

My boss threatened me with HR don't know what she thought they did. I found them most helpful when I was seriously ill I was on sick two years and got paid for one year. My Boss was most unhappy.

[@keisi1574]

@Twn Sion Cati You're right about it being "far from perfect" back then. If you look closer n deeper, and honestly n constructively- you'll stop romanticizing it. Because it was just as controlling and anti human spirit then as it is now. The main reason It's as you described it is today, and correctly so- is BECAUSE YOU, and everyone like you, fell in line(back then) and you BELIEVED you were doing the right thing; when in REALITY- you were giving up your individuality and denying your creativity...I challenge you to look at it closer n deeper!

[@hook-x6f]

Cameras will be everywhere. They'll be in the air and they'll know who you are and where you are. Cops will all be machines and they'll be everywhere when technology allows for it. We have robots right now walking around like humans with a perfect human gait.

[@mandyshanks2327]

Antagonism to life and to nature is “evil” - it is so true. If we maintain our natural instinct for life and nature, and know how not to suppress our doubts and critical questions, we wouldn’t slip into evil. I’m reading Iain’s second volume of The Matter With Things. It is an astounding work - he has a phenomenal mind and ability to convey it in a way that even i can understand.

[@rossanderson5447]

Yes, this idea of evil was also espoused by C.G Jung who said just this, something like "the spirit of evil is the negation of the life force by fear". He has been dead for many years but even in his time we were building up to this. Its is scary if you do not take time to notice. It creeps up on us in so many daily encounters. I especially liked the dialogue around going to the bar / cafe and struggling to order something with a QR code before giving up and ordering the way we all used to. Its insane and one of many examples of decoupling humanity through tech. Of course its not all bad, we have tech to thank for keeping us close to loved ones in COVID times, but like Ian says, we must not allow the beuracracy to maintain the COVID specific technology "advancements" for other more nefarious means.

[@fentonmulley5895]

Evil is a children's label used by people who don't grock context.

[@alexcampbell3032]

@@fentonmulley5895 Grock on Fenton.

[@TheWorldTeacher]

@@fentonmulley5895, that is rather PRESUMPTUOUS of you, wouldn’t you agree, Slave? Presumption is evil, because when one is PRESUMPTUOUS, one makes a judgement about a matter, despite having insufficient facts to support one’s position.

[@fentonmulley5895]

@@TheWorldTeacher what is amazing is that I encountered this exact bot like 10years ago. Slave? Oh no. My feelings ahhhhhh!

[@kateoneal4215]

I just ADORE these conversations!! So perfect for both our present situation and for me to listen to as I create my art pieces. ❤

[@quinnwilder]

Another deeply nourishing discussion. Thank you!

[@scrappylor]

I listen to this, because I miss the connection ,going for coffee with good conversation . Thanks for posting this .

[@AvalonConnections]

Thank God! At last a major philosopher who is seeing clearly and daring to talk directly about evil and the situation we're living in right now. So sad that there are so many great thinkers - Wilber, Smacktenburger, all the careerist left-brainers on 'Rebel Wisdom' etc' fail to grasp the real problem of evil.

[@nickpharoah]

Tell me! I dont have the time to listen to this.

[@wybuchowyukomendant]

Jesus, did you even read any of his books? You are literally what is wrong with the world, people spreading division, left-right narrative. You are hurrdurring about leftists, but right is exactly the same, all about the power over everything. Disgusting.

[@rythmicwarrior]

@@nickpharoah Make the time

[@mapstoinsight3252]

Our current egoism, in its “antagonism towards life, spirit, & nature,” is a plague much worse than anything we’ve knowingly experienced. Given over to our left-hemisphere delusions, we’ve set out to become our own gods & in so doing cast aside the very need for relationship that makes us human.

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

I love this. Yes. Well said.

[@bryann9689]

Beautifully & accurately stated

[@joshbowe-artwork5489]

I found Mark's comments on imagination and the differences with fantasy absolutely fascinating, really chimed with my own experience in art. It's easy to whimsically cascade down a line of thought, but as soon as you get a bleep on the imaginative radar from an observably exterior source, you almost know you must double your efforts. thank you both

[@geoffbowcher3189]

the art of conversation , alive and well.

[@iaingrysak4001]

Thanks for this. I began delving into McGilchrist's work about two years ago, and I found that it pulled together a lifetime of philosophical themes which I have explored. Also, importantly, his work has provided an effective lens through which to interpret the events in society over the past two years (which of course, are only an amplification of trends that have been developing for much longer). So, it is very satisfying for me to hear McGilchrist speak explicitly about this subject, and that my interpretations of his work have been accurate.

[@MissBforBella]

I don’t know who said it but I recall reading a theory that civilizations often collapse under the weight of their own bureaucracy. Seems like a good description of what is happening.

[@brettgordhamer6914]

This feels like one of if not the most important understandings we need right now...it is so clearly what our modern collective trance is..and exponential tech is in a death spiral with exponential left hemispheric qualities..disembodied..virtual..capitalistic..I never hear either of you speak on recurring cycles though..like in "the fourth turning"..these left hem right hem shifts every 20 years..hero to artist ect are implied as we toggle through history.circling back every 60 years to a left hem fourth turning that we are right in the middle of..it would add an even deeper level to this essential vision thank you both unbelievably beautiful Souls that you are

[@womanoftheozarks]

I appreciated your brilliant conversation. Was very healing to hear. You are Elders speaking to the human tribe. Peace and blessings

[@daviddrew7852]

Personally, I don't believe in a pure force of evil, but rather the absence of good. It's important to stay alert to it all the same, and I remain open to the idea. Another divine discussion. Thank you.

[@oliviawoods5418]

I thoroughly enjoyed this adult and sane conversation, we must hold on to our god given humanity and not be pushed into some dystopian future. It is important to stop and smell the roses from time to time.

[@stuart6822]

Iv been listening to this beautiful articulation of thought from Ian for sometime. We are lurching from appreciating detail to efficiency. Time has become the driver of human interaction and distracts the necessity of the moment. Strange that we can’t individually determine our outcome but are still enslaved by the external narrative waves that surround us!

[@2msvalkyrie529]

As first noted by Stoic philosophers 2000 years ago . Subsequently plagiarized as a startling insight by pseudo - intellectual con artists like McGilchrist .

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

Double speak. The tone usually doesn't match the words causing confusion

[@derrickknight0407]

Thank you for one of the most enthralling and enlightening conversations I have heard for a long time

[@cheri238]

The adventures of life are a journey. Again, thank you, Dr. Iain McGilchrist and Mark Vernon, for this discussion of enormous insights of liberation of ourselves. I am like a child with cotton candy all over my hands and mouth, I have had to stop on a road lost that splits both ways. Which one do I choose? The one home? On the right? Or do I choose left? I think I will wait and learn more. Imagination and intuition as I learn more listening to the most invigorating discussions I have ever had the opportunity to listen to. Again, thank you for all of your books.

[@Neatz1-r2h]

When everything is known danger is present, blinkers are worn for any other option. Thank you for your wisdom.

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

Aint that the truth...

[@samrowbotham8914]

I love this and this came up on my FB feed at just the right moment as I have just finished reading the late Colin Wilson's book Access to Inner Worlds in which he talks about how the Huna people see the machinations of the mind which is much like the way Anthony Peake sees it with his Daemon/Eidolon dyad and it not only makes sense to me but I have been able to communicate with the Right brain and do what Wilson said we can do and that is bring about the futures we want to experience. The problem is those who control society have locked us into our left brain where we have become very mechanical and robotic, this serves them as they have billions of people repeating the same daily pattern of work, rest, sleep and work again. I have never been unable to understand where this civilization is going except to see it's shuffling towards its inevitable doom. There are ways of breaking out of this mechanical left brain prison using Gurdjieff's techniques, using entheogens I used meditation and was able to experience for me what was one of my dream jobs. When you can do that then it ceases to be work for those interested I ended up working in pro football with a former England manager who loved my work and said it's a shame we never met when he was the England national manager. At the club, we would hypnotise players to facilitate their performances on the pitch and again it worked sport is more to do with intuition especially sport where speed of movement is important and this is why sportsmen spend years training every day so that their reactions are done without thought that seems to be a right-brain action what I call the subconscious mind and others call the higher self are being used by them.

[@elizabethdesousa8290]

Thank you both for giving voice to my intuitions. Thank you for the affirmation of consciousness.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

I find Homer Simpson has much the same effect . And not as pretentious a delivery ?

[@elizabethdesousa8290]

@@2msvalkyrie529 or maybe Iliad Idiot could communicate it through a meme. Good luck bucko ! :)) hmmm and then I reminisced a stirring in my dream that turned out to be you.

[@zenyogacenter6970]

Wonderful conversation, thank you Dr. McGilchrist & Mark Vernon!

[@TheVeganVicar]

Does your centre promote "AHIMSA"? :D

[@gevaann-voiceofgaia3715]

Thank you both so much for this sane, adult conversation xxx

[@cynthiaford6976]

What a nourishing and rich and timely conversation. I have been wondering if the relationship between our brain hemispheres is becoming even further dysregulated by the juggernaut of these times. It seems as if our right hemispheres are perpetually being pulled into sympathetic system duty, 'which prepares the body to face the unknown, because it is on the alert-to whatever is not familiar, not already certain" (page 867, The Matter with Things, footnoted to four sources) and we all get stuck in constant doom-scrolling. Might it be that after years of emergency that function becomes exhausted, and tips to the left hemisphere, which then imposes familiar theory, normalcy bias, paradigms, theologies, abstractions, and so allows parasympathetic rest, but sort of delusional rest? Just at the moment when we need our dreams, our creativity, our intution, and the implicit to know and understand how to participate in a wave pushing away from the direction the world is going? I caught a fragment of a dream in which my guitar and violin were burning, and days later --- it always takes time ---I realized that I needed to live the zen proscription to live as if I was already dead, meaning to let go of trying to find the pattern of the future (will America fall at the next election? Will more old growth burn? Will there be famine? Will people go more crazy? etc.), and let my right hemisphere, like Kekule on the London bus, work outside my awareness, but feed it, sort of, with poems and narratives and music, and wait for what it throws up on the shore. I really think all of our right hemispheres, which may be more attuned to each other than we know, far beyond the wet dreams of the technocrats, know what we need to do, but we have to treat them like the Oracle at Delphi to find what that is. Maybe in a Julian Jaynes-ish fashion, we need to make offerings to them, treating them as the small gods of our being. Or so I think this Holy Saturday lol.

[@ianwylie9064]

I think we are being done up like kippers

[@brianh5844]

Beautiful post Cynthia. I love what you said about our right hemispheres perhaps being more attuned to each other than we know.

[@steveflorida8699]

Peace of mind and optimism ("are not delusional rest") has advanced the individual and society. Those traits have contributed to clear thinking and humankind is better for it. The journey continues to find higher truths in the garden we grow. Treasures within the brotherhood of greater purpose and ethical upstanding.

[@mainintelligencedirectorat250]

I totally agree with your point about the mobile phone. I am reminded of my Uncle Ken Williams. He was a policeman - who consistently refused promotion - on Anglesey. He told be that he knew when it was time to retire. It was when they introduced the 'walkie-talkie.' He knew from that moment that he had forever lost his autonomy and become a puppet under the control of a master. Likewise with my mobile phone. I refer to it as 'the wife and work's tracker.' I make sure that it works for me, rather than me working for it. Putting it off, I tell people, saves energy and is therefore good for the environment. I told a lady this recently and she thought it was an affront to common decency and an example of being a 'bad and irresponsbile husband.' When I told her that I was happy to leave it (the phone) at home sometimes she looked at me as if I had just robbed the Poor Box.

[@robertmacnaughton178]

As an American, I learned of the two hemisphere's thesis through a published work of a Consciousness Researcher, author, and physicist Tom Campbell. In his model of Reality, he places the base of his spectrum containing fear, belief, and ego and the finishing end of his spectrum the love of others and the state of Being. He defines the left hemisphere as the home of the Intellect and the right hemisphere as the home of the Intuition. His 800+ page published work goes into the details in a lot of depth. Keep digging guys, and Good Luck.

[@ainisbu2555]

Extraordinarily pertinent thoughts being expressed under our current predicament. Thank you!

[@antonyliberopoulos933]

Thank you Iain. Your work is exceptional. Thank you Mark. Superb conversation full of gist.

[@shari6063]

I have never had a mobile phone except for emergencies (and it was a flip phone) either! I now feel I’m in very good company. Thank you Dr. McGilchrist for having the seen the destructive effect of the mobile phone and for not allowing yourself to be influenced by it! I very rarely “meet” other people who have seen this as clearly as you and I have, so I just had to make a comment.

[@bookchaser1103]

True, but I must admit I'm reading these comments on a mobile phone, lol.

[@Captain_MonsterFart]

I am one of the last hold outs in my social circle also. But someone gave me a smart phone that bit by bit is creeping into every day use. So far I don't take it out with me, but I do fiddle with it at home. Which means it is always turned on and always listening in. Those things creep me out. People who don't brow beat me for not conforming will often exclaim "Oh wow, good for you!!" when they learn I don't use one. It's like they want to be free but don't know how. I don't get it. It's easy if you never start!

[@feddedevries8890]

Brilliant conversation. More people should see this! Thanks so much.

[@jimwelsh9442]

You don’t ‘have a life’ Life ‘has’ you … You ARE Life…. The only division in existence is the mind of man Cheers 🍻

[@Dani68ABminus]

In 'Escape from Freedom' Erich Fromm differentiates the two types of power this way: "The word power has a twofold meaning. One is the possession of power over somebody, the ability to dominate him; the other meaning is the possession of power to do something, to be able, to be potent. The latter meaning has nothing to do with domination; it expresses mastery in the sense of ability. (…) Thus power can mean one of two things, domination or potency. Far from being identical, these two qualities are mutually exclusive. (…) To the extent to which an individual is potent, that is, able to realize his potentialities on the basis of freedom and integrity of his self, he does not need to dominate and is lacking the lust for power. Power, in the sense of domination, is the perversion of potency, just as sexual sadism is the perversion of sexual love."

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

Please stop manipulating my soul. I refuse a hologram future, and present. Please stop touching me. Ive been on a 3 year tretorious "journey" for a severely important reason.

[@shelleyscloud3651]

Speaking as a (very) disaffected bureaucrat…most of it is laziness. Arse covering and lack of imagination play their part too, but mostly it’s just people being too lazy to win people over.

[@harmonybalancehealth]

I attended therapy which I refer to ancient wisdom and in that environment was the only environment where I eventually could speak let alone speak my truth. I felt safe there!! As an elementary school teacher, I was very unique and magical and in my 11.1 years of teaching and learning only one principal recongized my talents as it was far from the pedagogy of academia.

[@johnmckeown4931]

What a conversation I never cease to amazed at how little I know. The discussion on evil was fascinating, I have repeated the Lord's prayer a million times throughout my life it never dawned on me what deliver us from evil can mean thank you

[@shari6063]

I would love to see a conversation with Dr. McGilchrist and Paul Kingsnorth.

[@barbarajohnson1442]

Thank you for this introduction to McGilchrist' work and a very rich discussion, just what I have been wrestling with, the tsunami of tech, feeling so inevitable, like we are on the Titanic!

[@misspy1153]

This convo is The Holy Grail. Simply listen and promote it

[@marycollins8215]

It is soothing just to watch the introduction and listen to you two speak. Thank you!

[@raoul1234567]

Wonderful discussion. I’m struggling through the Master and the Emissary at the moment and found this so much more accessible. I’d add that my struggle with the book is the sheer volume of information and ideas packed into every line. When McGilchrist pointed out that behaving like time is linear and the further we advance along it the more distant the thing we seek to leave behind becomes, has resonance with the ancient Chinese Medicine idea that at the extremes of yin or yang they transform into one another. All things have opposition, interdependence, mutually consume and transform into each other. As our world moves further toward extremes there will be more flipping to the opposite polarity. The unprecedented Freedoms we grew up with in the West are flipping onto various forms of enforced submission and control. Conversely China’s increasing extremes of control are driven by ruling dynasty’s fear that the most violent expression of freedom in the form of revolution is an ever present threat to in their survival.

[@steveflorida8699]

I think educated societies are better served within democracies freedoms, than under autocratic overlords' submissions.

[@aztrails1]

Really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you.

[@thomassimmons1950]

It's funny how many of my working-middle class friends of an age express these very same ideas...albeit, not with the same level of erudition, still - we're all noticing the collapse of the smallest transactions, particularly those of us, who remember a world that still worked on some level. CHEERS, LADS...FROM ST. LOUIS, MO!

[@kathleenscarborough5481]

Also currently in St. Louis-really appreciate these discussions as a musician, avid reader, and educator…

[@thomassimmons1950]

@@kathleenscarborough5481 Vaya con Dios, Kathleen!!!

[@clindsay8362]

This discussion is a healing balm. Thank you.

[@citycrusher9308]

@46:42 ''The desire might have been originally good'' No. It was always an attack on male students. ''Safety'' is a word always used to demonize them.

[@alexcat6480]

Men need to stop falling into the feminists' frame. Feminists only use the word "safety" as a smear word against men. They were NEVER serious about "university safety".

[@maggen_me7790]

I didn´t switc off Iain,- this is my second time listening carefully :) Thanks a lot.

[@peterroselle7612]

Mark Vernon provides deep insights in this conversation - hopefully there will be a part 2 and beyond.

[@jackteare8292]

We need chaos( not too much) to kick back. Totalitarianism is evil and is aided by the " stupid. " Great conversation ( I would say that because I have many of the same thoughts and conclusions.) God bless 🙏

[@TTSSYF23]

Chaos doesn't exist.

[@jackteare8292]

@@TTSSYF23 every atom is jiggling, they all want equilibrium. That is chaos, the Ying and Yang, when equilibrium wins out it is the death of the universe. Satan in ice..... What a brilliant metaphor... God bless 🙏 Chaos.

[@beaanderson6488]

Thank you so much, a wonderful reminder on the topics worth keeping current.

[@stevebaldwin2374]

Good talk. Thanks. Great new book too. Only finished the first volume so far because it keeps making think all sorts of new ideas😃

[@patrickgoff6512]

this is an important and well-nformed discussion. thank you so much for this gem of sanity in the midst of madness

[@kevinfox6097]

Thank you .

[@peterkingsford1398]

Thank you gentlemen, a fascinating and nourishing discussion, and with a message which is so welcome in these troubled times. May goodness and truth prevail!

[@n.j.t262]

Thank you mr. McGilchrist for your honesty. But it worries me when a gentle man like you are this radical and direct. The future looks grim. Will we be able to turn the upcoming events around, for the better?

[@jimranallo686]

An excellent presentation and certainly addresses the urgency of our time... good ppl have been led far away from the very basics of human interaction...extremism is narrative of the day...neighbors now often lost the importance of communication... instead opting to spout out hatred and disengagement that is the result of the massive psyop that has been spoon fed us...the importance of acting as responsible adults is now more of utmost importance...and coming together to identify the true evil that drives this unnatural rule of the day...I believe as do many others that we truly are seeing the battle for our souls playing out...I agree 100% with you both when addressing the fear of death playing a major role in a fear driven society....the quest for immortality really is the legend one leaves behind....great show... cheers from Mexico

[@thoughtfox12]

I would question Dr. McGilchrist's assertion that technology is "only as good or bad as the people using it". This stance, named "instrumentalism" in the philosophy of technology, fails entirely to account for the monumental transformation that technology, even when viewed in isolation of the motives of its users, has effected on our world. Indeed, the current technology system is so utterly beyond our "control" that to suggest there is anyone at the helm of its expansion is ludicrous. Yes, there are technicians, but as Jacques Ellul points out, the drive towards greater technologisation "technique", is embedded within the nature of modern technology itself. Each innovation begets the next. It is precisely this sense of powerlessness at the hands of technology that I think is largely responsible for the fetishisation of power that is discussed in this podcast.

[@everythingflows3639]

Yes, I had a similar thought when Iain said that.

[@lilmayomouldycrouton170]

Well said. Truly.

[@steveflorida8699]

Technology will continue to advance and challenge human morality to keep up. Moral civilization can/will prevail with proper grooming by all levels of society.

[@Villageidiot42]

Thank you

[@4rgo4l4crit4s]

I think you are missing his point. The whole theme of the book is perception.

[@bigbear8645]

Thank you for expressing many of the observations I have experienced in my own walk in the new world. I will consider the need for higher fences in my garden of life.

[@spiritualdeath101]

I urge readers of Master and Emissary to read Morris Berman's 'Twilight of American Culture' - which was written in 2000. On page 119 Berman says the following "The logical endpoint of this is a purely technocratic Weltenschang, the vision of a totally administered world." Iain McGilchrist's unique contribution is the realisation that the left hemishphere will take over if it is not restrained. But the phenomenon of "dumbing down" - the closing of the American mind etc etc - has been written about for 40 years by many authors. Berman describes what is going on socially and McGilchrist explains the biology behind it.

[@andrewcharley1893]

fascinating talk here.full marks👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾❤️can anyone imagine our leaders participating with these two guys in this debate............................. ...............................................maybe not.

[@fionabarton9171]

Thank you so much for this fascinating talk. More please, especially about the vision of what humans can be! 😁

[@johnmitchell8925]

Excellent discussion thank you so much gentlemen I enjoyed it tremendously I'm 61 now and life is really starting to suck

[@jon_doran]

Wonderful conversation here

[@Brad-RB]

Excellent conversation.

[@SMRogers]

Also keeping oneself safe should not stop us from being courageous and adventuresome. Safety to me is based on the ability to use intuition and wisdom in the moment when we might be doing something foolish.

[@Martselina]

“The desire to be safe is fine as long as it puts the responsibility on you to keep yourself safe but once you put the responsibility on other people to make the world safe around you, you’ve exported the responsibility. One of the things one has to do in the mental health world is to get people to take responsibility for their feelings not to blame others for them, and to say that if you react that way and you feel that, then let’s see what you’re doing to make that happen because it’s not going to be about changing anybody else it will be about changing you. That in itself points out that there needs to be a degree of discipline if there’s going to be freedom. If it's not us having self control, then external controls, oppressive regimes will take over." Iain McGilchrist

[@motiveinmotivation383]

Conversation backed by ACTION!!!!! 1 discussion at a time

[@lindosland]

I think there is something very important missing from the ideas of McGilchrist - the concept of IMPRINTING, or to put it another way, the importance of early experience in the passing on of a culture. The point about imprinting, as noted by Konrad Lorenz and studied by his follower Eible Eibestfeldt is that it occurs in a limited time window and is then pretty much fixed. The names of these early ethologists are missing from 'the master and his emissary'. Along with this goest he concept of 'neuronal plasticity' through synaptic pruning in the early years, and through pruning plus selective myelination in adolescence. The former appears to establish 'intersubjectivity' only when a baby gets the appropriate cues from a mother or carer, with attachment also involved to create a trusted source and protector. Evidence of this comes from studies of Rumanian orphans - they tend to have the basic form of autism. Imprinting determines the wiring of the brain to optimise it for certain modes of thinking. It is not the same as learning by strengthening connections. The later phase of imprinting might be expected to establish empathy and other patterns of interaction in teenagers. Both are failing owing to breakdown in continuity as mothers go out to work and teenagers are exposed to the hell of a school with 3000 pupils and mobile phones plus social media. Rather than talk of 'finding' some fundamental quality of life, I think we should recognise that meaning is generated within a society, which exists because it can survive, and is maintained by imprinting (plus learning). When that breaks down, the society collapses. All sorts of societies can exist in theory and survive, and what is right or wrong or evil is purely a property of each culture. A society of psychopaths can survive and thrive, but only when it can feed off an existing society that has empathy. Once out society collapses so will the Technopoly, unless it can keep slave labour going. Stalin killed remorselessly, but kept going for decades using a model of fear, culling and slavery. As others have commented here, the breakdown of our society was planned (as called for by Gramsci) and executed using the tools of Postmodernism and Woke ideology. This ability of a few to plan the destruction of a society is key, and to endure a society needs protection and vigilance. The Christian religion provided major checks against psychopaths doing what it called evil, but was not consistent with science and reason after the Enlightenment. I propose a new enlightenment, with a new religion that teaches this sort of stuff to children, with the emphasis on empathy, thus giving them a basis for meaning in a post-Darwinian world.

[@lisajones3907]

Autism is mostly genetic. Those with it have difficulty caring for infants. Hence, the babies abandoned to orphanages that would have a greater number of genetically inherited autistic infants. Nature is being shown to be greater as an influence than nurture today, in general.

[@axislivedotorg]

Good conversation… Should be “clipped” & with time stamp descriptions

[@mechannel7046]

I found this video on my phone and watching it now on my phone. LOL

[@lindacarroll5018]

Thank you so much.

[@stevenbritt1227]

Knowledge is more firm than Belief

[@damondavies8708]

Iain, you're a good lad

[@gabrielanita8319]

It's such a delight to see God's gift given to Iain. I pray for his soul salvation so he can be truly enlightened. If onky he could know how much clarity he would have in his thinking and gifting. I thank God for Iain. You are in my prayers Sir.

[@mehdibaghbadran3182]

All I know is that if we really are going to find the solutions for our problems, we can if we’re keen , and believing that we can! I’m not talking about left or right, because we’re created this separation, I’m talking about normal life based on truth !

[@gabrielanita8319]

Mattias Desmet speaks clearly about the mass formation on modern society which acts like a hypnotic trick. Complements this brilliant discussion here. Thank God He exists and He is the one really having the last say and not us humans. Because of our fallen, sinful nature we will go in circles, down and down and then God rescues us again but soon it will be an end to this.

[@samhorlick8207]

Thank you for this talk

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

I like that we all seem to be waking up together to the apparent fact that McGilchrist is a very special voice.

[@suecooper9011]

Great talk thankyou. Evil is to be steered down, agree, not to be turned away from. We need to individually and collectively take responsibility for it in our consciousness. We could call this 'sin'. It does look as though that 'sin' belongs 'on others' (outside us) and we will of course project it unless we can take responsibility for it. Take responsibility for it but not make ourselves 'wrong' for it. We need to be able to look at this in the full knowing it is not the Truth. It does need to be forgiven, forgiven from within and surrendered to God (the God Self) so we can be shown the Truth of who and what we are and come to know it. Let us hold each other in a loved and healed place whilst we do the work. Blessings. x