The Battle of Taoxi | Jiang Wei's Northern Expeditions Let's Talk Lore E07

[@Tobbs96]

The more I learn about these later expeditions, the more I feel any notion of a Shu victory were lost with Zhuge Liang's death. It's like Shu doesn't have a victory plan anymore, but are just making some token efforts while waiting to be conquered. I mean, just beating the local garrison is a huge win for them, so how are they planning to beat the full force of Wei once reinforcements arrive?

[@EmperorsVenetians]

Its kind of staggering how both Wu & Shu kept launching attacks in pretty much the exact same areas over and over for decades and plans didnt change. Shu's plans were thwarted from the begining attacking through a long mountain pass into land they couldn't resupply from and it led to them losing their eastern territories. Same with Wu, despite claiming to be the descandants of Sun Tzu they do exactly the opposite of his strateges for 40+ years attacking the enemies strongest defensable position within marchable distance & proceed to unsurprisingly lose a dozen times.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Not exactly the same though. This new attacking through a western path is trying to innovate

[@quicochines7492]

Friend, these preparations by Sima Zhao remind me of Cao Cao's preparations against Guan Yu's advance against the north, Jiang Wei really hit them hard in this campaign.

[@armmine5316]

Shu Han faction in games really needs some kind of elite units to reflect their combat superiority. Or at least Zhuge Liang (and Jiang Wei?) need to be really OP.

[@practoseamien4549]

I suspect he'll get shit for this later but I think that Jiang Wei was right in wanting to push on , and Zhang Yi was wrong. If you are not going to even try to capitalize on such a victory, then what exactly is your ultimate plan?

[@colmoe]

Could always go the Yuan Shu route and go hunt down some honeywater to make yourself Emperor Give a man honeywater and he will make an dynasty out of it.

[@fallenprince7591]

You've got to keep in mind that Wei was dealing with large Wu armies and internal strife up until this point and weren't taking Jiang Wei as seriously as they should have. This expedition seems to be the point that the situation changed.

[@Atom523]

Sadly, the only real way for Shu Han to "win" would be to make holding onto Liang so expensive that abandoning it would be better. Zhang Yi was correct here that they lacked the resources to maintain a campaign. Retreating was the best choice forcing Wei to waste the resources marching a large reinforcement army there for nothing.

[@shaggycan]

I do wonder why Shu didn't establish a 'colony' in the far west or even in the protected area in the 'secret pass'. The main problem with the northern expeditions was that they lacked the ability to flank Wei. It seems once Kongming was gone they just became a series of raids, not a serious invasion of Wei with the goal of permanently taking land.

[@SeriousTrivia]

high altitude area with no arable land. feels like such a colony is pointless unless you can farm there and sustain the colony

[@ariefsantoso9066]

logistic also the problem transport supply to the front from shu land to the north is nightmare even without bandit interrupting the natural barier become the natural problem to expand I mean Zhuge Liang plan to use jing province to go mid land but somehow wu take it so there goes the plan and the plan colude with wu to attack always ended in wu to weak and lost so kinda expected

[@shaggycan]

@@SeriousTrivia oh I thought there was a village at the end of the route. Thanks

[@johnboon4212]

Happy Blessed Chinese New Year!

[@vinhny2406]

F in the chat for the Fox of the West Guo Huai

[@ZelgadisEddy]

Friend, I'm sure that anyone who has seen at least a few episodes of the channel's latest series has gained immense respect for him. F

[@shaggycan]

You can see complacency starting to set in around 250. This is the death of Shu Han. They start to get comfortable and safe in Chengdu not understanding that they are in a situation that is unstable in the long term. Giving up on serious northern expeditions basically hands the initiative to Wei and thus the ultimate victory.

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

Arguably none of the Northern Expeditions had a realistic chance at toppling Wei. Once Shu Han lost Jing's manpower, resources and invasion routes, it was just a matter of when, not if they'd be conquered by one of the bigger states. They simply lacked the population and resources to truly threaten Wei and each year that gap widened.

[@oldrabbit8290]

why Shu didn't leave a garrison once they have captured the passes in the previous attack? it's weird that every time they attack, they have to waste time at these pass again instead of attacking new targets. So much cost for zero progess

[@SeriousTrivia]

it’s in the middle of enemy territory. You can’t defend the area, you can’t resupply the area. These are basically raids

[@Remonlore]

the supply route is too far unless they controll the part with the better path.

[@tonys9397]

This part is so sad and hard to watch

[@ZelgadisEddy]

Mister Serious, was Wang Jing punished for this catastrophic defeat in any way?

[@SeriousTrivia]

You will see in the next episode

[@ZelgadisEddy]

@SeriousTrivia OK, sorry, too anxious 😓