The Besler Steam Plane; Not As Insane As You Might Think

[@duncanhamilton5841]

1930s Health & Safety Protocol: 1) Wear a 3/4 length coat. 2) Stand close to the thing fairly likely to spontaneously and violently disassemble without warning. 3) Chain smoke

[@awatt]

I'd rather stand next to a flash steam boiler than any other type.

[@duncanhamilton5841]

@@awatt it was the standing five foot away from a spinning propeller being stopped and reversed in a plane with no directional control or brake s

[@AnimeSunglasses]

Steam boilers exploding without being punctured was a thing of the past by then. Standing in reach of a spinning prop on a MOVING aircraft, however?

[@awatt]

@AnimeSunglasses Flash steam boilers have very little water in them. Maybe as little as a cup so when they fail all the pressure is released instantly with far less drama that other types of boiler.

[@AnimeSunglasses]

@@awatt I think I knew that, but I sure forgot to mention it... Really just doubles my point I guess?

[@billsmith5166]

It could also get all the wrinkles out of the pilots clothes during the flight.

[@ivancho5854]

😂👍

[@BodywiseMustard]

That made you cry with laughter?

[@ivancho5854]

@@BodywiseMustard Yes. 😐

[@donotwantahandle1111]

…and a cup of tea!

[@sanjeetgill448]

Clement Aders Eole bat shape didn't affect the pilot?.right?

[@wkelly3053]

My father worked of Besler Corporation as a machinist in the SF Bay Area before WWII. Then he was drafted into the US Army during the war. Upon returning from the war, he walked right back to his machinist station at Besler like he had never left. Later he was promoted to being a field rep for Besler's agricultural sprayers throughout California. I had heard about the steam plane a short time ago from my sister. Thanks for presenting this video.

[@estebancorral5151]

Well your memory is shot. It was in Emeryville, CA., parallel to to the railroad junction, a block away from a foundry and three blocks away from another foundry. Absent from this video was that this flight happened in Oakland Airport’s North Field, the same place where both Lt. Hegenburger made the first trans-Pacific flight, and also Amelia Earhart. William and George Besler were both Geniuses.

[@wkelly3053]

@@estebancorral5151 Pardon, but who are you talking to, me? Emeryville is certainly in the SF Bay Area, which is close enough for KZbin. My dad worked for Bill Besler just as I described until 1956, and flew in Besler's Beechcraft Bonanza many times for business purposes. Besler also invited my mother and very young brother and sister on at least one flight. I have the black and white picture of my siblings standing in front of the airplane. What part of my memory is "shot"? I was not even born until 1961. By then my parents had long moved on and started their own business.

[@joshkamp7499]

Water consumption has always been the bane of compact steam propulsion. Condensers are heavy, and despite many claims, no one has ever come close to making an effective one small enough to be practical in a car, plane, or similar. Bill Lear's fictitious steam car is another example.

[@paistinlasta1805]

You might want to look into steam cars more. There were plenty of steam cars up untill the 1920's, and as far as I know, none of them had any problems with condencing the water. The biggest problem steam cars had was that starting them up was tidious work and took a long time. Even before the starter engine, internal combustion engines only took a minute or a few to get running. The Doble E20 steam car from the 1920's was the most advanced steam car ever, and I've heard it was pretty much the only practical steam car in the sense that lighting up the boiler was easy and it only took a few minutes to generate enough steam to get it running. You should take a look at the episode of Jay Leno's Garage with the Doble E20 in it, very informative and interesting.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@paistinlasta1805 And all of that vs some work with crank and you are good to go. Convenience always wins in the end.

[@JanoTuotanto]

Replacing water with mercury might turn out to be interesting. The boiling point is well below melting point of aluminium, boiler would not be a problem. Turpentine would be another fun thing to try

[@joshkamp7499]

@@paistinlasta1805 quite intimately aware of the history of steam propulsion, in automobiles in particular. The models without condensers were limited in range and usefulness by the amount of water they had the means to carry, and similarly those with condensers used so much of their considerable size and weight for the operating mechanism that, as cars became practical parts of everyday life instead of 2 seat go carts for the rich, they quickly gave way to fat more efficient gasoline designs, just like the early electric models.

[@lancerevell5979]

​@@paistinlasta1805Wiki has a very good article on the Doble Brothers and their cars. Very interesting.

[@hawkerhellfire9152]

What killed off the steam car(and the electric car) wasn't the internal combustion engine itself but the electric starter motor as all the benefits of Internal combustion is for naught if the bloody thing will try to break your arm every time you try to start it.

[@bigblue6917]

With my first car I had, on occasion, to start it by hand. Not a fun thing to do at the best of times. On a cold wet and windy night it's surprising how many swear words you remember.

[@joshkamp7499]

Not entirely true. Power density is what caused IC engines to replace steam the second they were usable for small vehicles, hand start and all. Big things like trains just took a bit longer for the technology to scale up.

[@53kenner]

There were several issues. Perhaps the largest was thermal efficiency. A pound of steam at atmospheric pressure and 212 degrees F contains about 970 BTU of latent heat that was absorbed in boiling the water. This energy can't be used to perform work in the engine and is discarded to the atmosphere either by exhausting the steam or via a condenser. Then there's the issue of contaminated feedwater causing accumulations on boiler inner surfaces that lead to burnout. We also have complexity as you need a boiler, feed pump, and boiler controls in addition to an engine.

[@paulmanson253]

​@@bigblue6917In the late 70s a med student I roomed with owned a Hillman Minx that had optional crank start. I think it was about a 1963 model or so. Very useful for doing tune-ups,he did almost all the service and maintenance himself.

[@Farweasel]

@@joshkamp7499 Plus they needed to discover genetic engineering in order to raise railway engineers big enough to wind the starter handles of course

[@wbertie2604]

"not quite as insane you might think" is still fairly nutty

[@moss8448]

well one has to be a bit crazy to keep from going insane as Jimmy Buffet once lyrical-sized (if that's the right word)

[@AnimeSunglasses]

Yes, but it's still a STEEP change from "blindingly unworkable" to "eccentric and noncompetitive"

[@JohnnyWednesday]

As an utter lunatic I know that I wouldn't trust anybody half as insane as me - I'm not insane!

[@sanjeetgill448]

Clement Aders eloe bat shape was not crazy, it's just all what they hv a steam engine

[@sanjeetgill448]

​@@AnimeSunglassesclement Aders Eole bat shape was not bad and unworking ....u r still right about ur opinion

[@jamieblanche3963]

Put the condenser pipes through the leading edge and you've got a de-icing system? :)

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

That's plumb loco!

[@davidotness6199]

Albeit perhaps a compound icing system in the right (wrong) conditions.

[@robmidgley]

Ed, I’ve said something like this before on another of your videos, but it’s worth repeating (and I hope you manage to read this). I’ve been avidly interested (and I mean nerd level) in aviation and its history for as long as I can remember (which is close to 50 years now, but I expect my memory will soon become the limiting factor in this statement). I have a doctorate in aeronautical engineering, I work in the industry have a bookcase full of Putnam books and yet your videos always seem to manage to find subjects I’ve either never heard of, or alternatively give an angle that avoids the easy narrative of an aircraft and forces us to think. I don’t know how you do that part, but to achieve that and add to it your self deprecating humour as additional icing means that your videos float to the top of my pile of favourite KZbin content. Honestly really well done and keep it up. You bring light into the life of at least one person. High praise I know.

[@garynew9637]

Exactly!

[@CaptainDonut0]

"Nuklear reactor is a steam engine whit glow in the dark bits" Ed Nash's Military Matters 2024

[@jozefbubez6116]

Yeah! Big plus is that you can clean your teeth without having to turn on the lights in the bathroom!

[@CaptainDonut0]

@@jozefbubez6116 ore need lights in general, you be illuminating the streets just driving by at night.

[@johnruddick686]

This make's my brain hurt with the number of questions this immediately spawns!!!! Wow just Wow!!!!

[@Farweasel]

Well call me 'Captain Pedantic' (please - I crave recognition) BUT That is not multiple questions, it is a single observation or comment Questions are things like 'Why is a mouse if it spins?' & 'Where was Ed when the light went out?'

[@adrianpeters2413]

One question you have ...must be ....that you get all steamed up about it ......

[@johnruddick686]

@@Farweasel yes I know what a question is! It was indeed a comment well noticed....

[@iancurtis1152]

If the steam plane concept could have been refined more it would have made a great carrier borne recon aircraft with seemingly no need for arrester hooks.

[@mpetersen6]

That was my first thought. What really killed steam in rail applications was excessive servicing requirements compared to diesel and electric types

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

Reversible pitch props do the same. No need to have a reversible engine.

[@jimtaylor294]

​@mpetersen6 Kind of. Steam Traction was more of a combo of relative manpower & speed of availability issues. (it took much longer & more people to cold start a Steam Locomotive than a D/E or D/H... though electric preheaters did reduce this gap a fair bit) In reliability the Steamies had a clear advantage, taking much more abuse for them to break down than contemporary Diesel-Electric's, and being far more effective in extremes of weather.

[@edgein3299]

The fact that it was ultra quiet made it perfect for recon on the battlefield. Weight would not be an issue because it wouldn’t be carrying weapons

[@Schlipperschlopper]

Maybe even for a small reconnaissance Helicopter on Submarines

[@christoffermonikander2200]

Hiram Maxim supposedly managed to get a steam power plane airborne a decade or so before the Wright brothers. But as the plane was bolted to a set of railway tracks and pulled the track up with it before crashing, it doesn't count as the first successful flight. (The whole contraption was an engineering test-bed and not an actual airplane prototype so it was never intended to fly in the first place.)

[@Attaxalotl]

That sounds like a very Hiram Maxim thing to do.

[@trespire]

There is a Jay Lenno episode with a magnificent Doble E-20 silently crousing at 65 mph. Fully reusing the water after a condenser, all controled by quarz crystal.

[@johnpotter8039]

In 1972, living in Los Angeles and going to UCLA, I was involved with a number of young engineers to saw modern steam power as a viable alternative to "internal explosion engines" (this from the Stanley catalog) and Los Angeles air pollution. We also researched the technologies of the 1920s and 30s, especially the Doble steam car. I also belonged to the Steam Automobile Club of America, composed of both Young Turks like me and old-timers. I attended a conference in Oakland. Two of the steam aficionados were remarking that "Barney Becker might bring 'Betsy'" to the event. We were in front of the hotel meeting room when we suddenly felt, but didn't hear, a vehicle approaching. Becker had worked for Besler and had restored and tended to a 1925 maroon convertible, probably the one in the old movie shown. We got to crawl all over and under the car, and he took several of us for rides. No mechanical noise, just the growling from the tires. So, I am proud to say that I rode in a 1925 Doble.

[@WilhelmKarsten]

Crackpots and con men...

[@tenlittleindians]

It doesn't surprise this Iowa boy! There were even plans in a book called The Boy Mechanic for steam powered model airplane engines before this airplane took flight. Hanging from the ceiling in the airplane museum in Oshkosh Wisconsin are a few models with tiny steam engines and flash boilers. If you want to see something really impressive look up steam powered model boat racing. They race these models on water in a circle using a tethered line. These model boats have tiny steam engines with flash boilers. They are a blur as they zip around in a circle.

[@darrellcook8253]

Way cool.

[@waynethomas3638]

An example would be the putt putt boats powered by a candle!

[@tenlittleindians]

@@waynethomas3638 Yes those are considered steam powered but until you watch one of those flash boiler racers on KZbin you have no idea how high the bar has been raised! One of the videos is titled Flash Steam Hydroplane 2

[@wbertie2604]

Finally a solution to keeping warm at high altitudes - use the cockpit as the condenser.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

There was a fairly serious attempt to develop a steam turbine powered aeroplane - the Bristol Tramp - in the immediate post WWI period, though ultimately it did not get built. The logic there was that it was to carry mail from ocean liners, and that the crews of ocean liners were already very familiar with steam turbines but not internal combustion engines.

[@PetesGuide]

The exhaust port is pointed towards the tail, right? So Bessler was blowing steam out it’s rear…

[@jlvfr]

/badoomtish

[@nunyabidniz2868]

Was surprised you didn't mention Sir Hiram Maxim's steam-powered flying machine in the intro. And lest we forget, NASA's steam powered [Stirling cycle] airplane is legendary among the EAA crowd. As always, very interesting & highly entertaining. Thank you for your content!

[@EricCoop]

You pointed out that the Bessler had a condenser, which would make it a closed-loop cycle as opposed to steam locomotives that had to periodically refill their water tanks (some engineers did try to place condensers in steam locomotives but that didn't work well). I'm a bit fascinated by steam, having served in three Navy ships that were steam-powered. Maybe this push to make electric planes will prove infeasible when we start using up all our lithium and eventually run out. Steam is nice because, like a gas turbine, it can run quite well on a variety of fuels.

[@lwilton]

South Africa rail had a long run over basically desert. They used steam engines with condensers quite successfully for many years. Admittedly that is the only case I know of that had a practical result.

[@lassikinnunen]

Its not that it wouldn't be practical as such, it's just extra effort, in maintanance especially. The dobbles also ran on kerosine with a boiler, while coal trains get a draft and power benefit from expunging to air(more power). Anyway lenos channel has bunch of vids on rebuilding dobbles

[@bryanparkhurst17]

One of your shorter videos but, definitely 1 of your better ones. It's fascinating and I never would have thought in a million years that people would have tried to use a steam engine to power an airplane but apparently they did and they had some modicum of success. Again fascinating, thank you.

[@ATomRileyA]

Jay leno has some great videos explaining the steam cars, The Doble, White and Stanley Steamer were all pretty cool and he still drives them today. Never knew they made a plane with a steam engine in it, makes sense though at the time those Steam cars were better than the gasoline powered ones which might seem strange today.

[@brentwalters8921]

I was like, hope the engine is something like a Doble! 😂

[@tomlobos2871]

i enjoyed jay leno's videos on steam cars a lot. they allow a glimpse into that technology, i recommend.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

Jay did great stuff on the cars. Incredible engineering.

[@chrisknight6884]

The Doble engine is a wonderful piece of engineering, difficult to copy even with modern materials. All power to Jay Leno for his preservation of running examples.

[@choppergirl]

The instant reverse on a propeller would be very useful on a Swamp boat, which also use aero engines and propellors. And no shortage of resupply water skimming over the top of a swamp in a flat bottomed boat.

[@JaneDoe-dg1gv]

swamp water, while surprisingly good due to the presence of all the tannins in it, is an awful water source. The purer the water, the better a boiler will behave. It would make sense to do as large steam ships do. Just use the swamy as a heat sink for a condenser and recycle the pure steam boiler water.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

The problem for this applicatoion is that small steam engines are very heavy for theyr power output. They work well in the power range of a train, but on the low end the size becomes unsuitable. Big ships used this reverse ability , but it was less than instantantaneous, took some more time to stop and reverse because of inercia, like you can see in that engine scene of "Titanic". All pressure powered motors can do that, be it steam, air or hidraulic pressure.

[@davepennington3573]

That is a great idea. The condenser could be built into the hull and cooled by the swamp water, and low noise would be a huge benefit in boating. Such a craft could use a number of carbon neutral fuels including ethanol and charcoal to produce steam, and the engine would be virtually maintenance free.

[@choppergirl]

@@davepennington3573 Yeah, and doubly so, because in a swamp boat, you have no brakes... so with a suddenly reversible engine, you now can now throw it in full reverse and brake like a mofo, then throw it back into full foward. Turn on a dime. I dare say, I could do some wild boating "aero / acro batics" with a lightswamp boat with a reversible engine on it and all the wild waves I was chopping up playing in place. Jetski style fun.

[@davepennington3573]

@@choppergirl With twin fans it would be insane

[@noimnotarobotcanubeleiveit7024]

Come the apocalypse this will be pure gold. Water and sticks will never run out

[@johnathandavis3693]

Fascinating that the quiet operation of this aircraft was remarked on. I would LOVE to hear a recording of this thing. I wonder if one exists?

[@megapangolin1093]

Excellent examination of an unimaginable curiosity. Love the quirkiness of this machine, and the courage of the brothers to develop it. Thanks, Ed.

[@Vespuchian]

The moment you mentioned the steam generator came from the Doble auto company I knew how well suited the engine would actually be. Those things weren't just boilers, they were remarkably efficient steam generators. Jay Leno has a great video about the Doble E-20, one of the fastest production cars in the world when it was made in 1925. It still runs, still easily overtakes modern cars on the highway, even beats California emissions standards unmodified!

[@rogerrendzak8055]

Wow!!! Never imagined steam, could be applied, for flight🤔!!! And talk about, thrust reversers………. The motor in reverse?!! Good short doc, on something, not heard about.

[@hherpdderp]

I wonder could they have used the used the wings as cooling/ condensers.

[@AndrewLohmannKent]

The Dobble cars had better boiler and condenser than other makes of steam cars. The problem is too much weight for the aeroplane, I suppose that's a shame. I believe the big issue that stops some of those steam cars going within a minute or two is that the whole engine must be hot enough so that the steam does not condense because water won't compress but will damage the engine. Having said that, some much lower speed cars not 120MPH Dobble do start in 90 seconds.

[@Lyle-In-NO]

The thought never crossed my mind to power a plane using steam, because, we'll, it's crazy. But seeing somebody actually got it to work is incredible. Thank you for making video. You've captured my attention. What other videos have u got? Damn it! Another rabbit hole. Ya Bastard!

[@goddepersonno3782]

I found this aircraft when researching for a fantasy story, it's fascinating to think what aircraft would have looked like if the combustion engine was never invented, and the Besler Steam Plane is certainly living proof that they wouldn't have been too difficult or farfetched at all

[@paulf9487]

If this video had been uploaded on April 1st you definitely would have assumed it was an April fools joke.

[@Fergusius]

Well they do say that reality can be and often is way stranger and crazier than fiction 😅

[@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke]

The Bessler brothers were notorious con men... this was a scam from the start, much like the solar powered car start-ups of today

[@lancaster5077]

Wait till you see Flash Steam Hydroplanes.

[@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke]

@@lancaster5077 Space X says its mars rocket will be steam powered!

[@jamesbugbee9026]

Heard of a Russian pioneer, ~1880, who tried a flight in a craft powered by 2 steam engines, but stalled (?) after liftoff & was crushed betwixt the 2 engines, so close 2 being the 1st 2 fly successfully. Wish i knew more...

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

I heard of that too. If I am not misremembering, he tried to test his plane jumping off a bridge. And he used small locomotive engines. Literally a flying train...

[@immikeurnot]

@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 Not really a flight then. Turns out the secret to being the first to powered flight was figuring out that propellers need to be airfoils, and spending a LOT of wind tunnel time figuring out an effective design. The Wright brothers broke that code while everybody else was trying to use paddles.

[@TotalyRandomUsername]

When fuel was running out you needed to fly quite low so your copilot could pick branches from the trees for fire wood, but you got plenty of water with that condenser when you flew through clouds.

[@grasonicus]

Steam piston engines are notoriously inefficient, about 8% efficient. That's why they're rare nowadays.

[@hobbyfarmer62]

This is a completely insane craft, I had never heard of a successful steam application in aircraft. Someone today should be able to come up with a solution for the water issue by capturing the exhaust steam pass it through a condenser and cool it back into water.

[@johnforsyth7987]

Thank you for another informative video about a plane that I had never heard of before.

[@baliparker]

Jay Leno sent me here form his latest vid on the "Big Boy"

[@allenhelverson4083]

Me too

[@Bozemanjustin]

considering you are FLYING and temps cold up there, condesing and reusing the water would have been EASY. cars were dong it

[@kimraudenbush615]

Appreciate the shout-out to Drach!

[@gilbertdavies]

I read about this in a 1970s(?) EAA magazine. I believe it was fueled by parafin/kerosene. Flash boiler, & condenser would be a closed loop, so I wonder why 15min duration? Clearly, there was a loss of steam, watching the film, but that couldve been rectified. The written article stated the engine was used in railway shunting locos. A Traveair 2000 would be lovely, but with steam propulsion even nicer, although I do like the OX5, with that tube& enc rod operating the valve gear. Good video, thank you

[@PiersDJackson]

The aircraft may be called a Besler, I'm calling it a Doble for the purposes of the mechanicals. Basics of "Doble" as a company, like the Three Stooges, comprising of a rotating cast of brothers, with Abner being the eccentric genius, sadly they were better engineers than businessmen... they developed their models A through K (except I). This is complicated by the models A, B and G being built as "Detroit", and models A through F being cars, with G through K as larger designs. Models C through F were developments upon each other, with the letter generally designating a major alteration in design. The model E was seen as the peak in user-friendliness, fast in starting (minutes from cold to "usable" - enough to move at a dawdle) and on road, it did condense it's water with a 35% loss rate (most other condensing had a rate closer to 50%). The illusive Model F is also the last E chassis - defined as F due to it's significant differences to the majority of E's. The Model G and H were used in Buses, so were considerably larger... the Model J was used by Sentinel Waggons of Shrewsbury as a basis for their Columbian Locomotive.

[@stoobydootoo4098]

It is said that 747s had steam assisted take-offs. They had to pump cooling water into the engine - obviously this turned into superheated steam, producing increased thrust.

[@kirkmooneyham]

I never heard of any 747 with water-injection. The early models of B-52 and KC-135 used water injection at takeoff to support getting a greater payload into the air. The water tanks would be close to empty by the time they reached a good altitude.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@kirkmooneyham water injection was proposed, tested, and even used commercially in lots of airliners, decades ago.

[@stoobydootoo4098]

@kirkmooneyham As I said, it wasn't intentional water injection - the extra thrust was a by-product of the engine cooling effects.

[@robmidgley]

@@stoobydootoo4098 I believe with water injection (and the related methmix) the additional thrust comes from an increase in the engine’s mass flow rate due to the enthalpy change of liquid water to steam. So you’re right that the water acts as a coolant, but its purpose was to cool the air (not to benefit or cool the engine itself), and by doing so it increase the density (mass) of the working fluid. Change in working fluid momentum = mass x velocity change = thrust.

[@WordLight-m8q]

Cool story Ed! Leno has some great vids on his Doble steam cars - my favorite of all of them. I have always been chagrined about the tremendous amount of heat that ICE's generate, and the drag caused by getting rid of it. Some less than successful planes used evaporative cooling, and I just wonder if anyone has tried to take the steam generated by an ICE and run it through a turbine? Greg did a fascinating video on turbo compounding that would be a similar concept. Instead of 20% efficiency you are now talking maybe 70%?

[@blxtothis]

The first powered flight (In June 1848, was achieved by inventor John Stringfellow in Chard Somerset, by his unmanned aircraft which was powered by a tiny steam engine. Not many people know that,ma bit like the first World Land Speed Record was made by an electric car.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

FWIW: Back in the late 80s or early 90s I saw a presentation by an FAA rep about Aviation. Much of the presentation, what I remember of it anyway, dealt with the classification change to Class A, B, C, etc. Airspace. One other thing he mentioned {which I unfortunately DID NOT ask about AFTER the presentation} was the concept of steam power for modern General Aviation aircraft. He mentioned a system using a steam turbine and operating at several hundred PSI, or maybe even over 1,000 PSI. The system would use a VERY SMALL boiler -- possibly around the _size_ of a disposable propane cylinder -- to make boiler failure not totally catastrophic. Whether this was all just _conjecture_ or had actually been researched to some extent I do not know.

[@kentl7228]

I gather a problem is the long dwell between adjusting the throttle amd the expected result. Power to wait ratio.

[@paulis7319]

Is that a snake on the ground at 4:44?

[@josega6338]

Are there advances in Steam boilers and condensers allowing a remake of Besler steamer airplane engine? External Combustion Engines, Steam machines and the heavier as a brick Stirling, could work on everything that burns. With AvGas about to be banned in places as California-A, always expensive and hard to find in many countries, Aircraft Steam machines are not that krazee now. What happened to the German research on Aircraft Steam Turbines? This sounds as a perfect companion to the Nuclear Reactor tested inside a B-36. Blessings +

[@Jonas-py4yp]

Thanks for a very interesting video. The DFW Floh 248 aircraft would have been a good candidate for the steam powered aero-engine. Plenty of fuselage volume for water, condensers, fuel, etc.

[@Ollisaa6095]

imagine the night fighters/bombers you could achieve with this technology when developed further...

[@EricCoop]

Conventional Steam: Use wood or fossil fuels to heat water. Nuclear Power: Use magic rocks to heat water.

[@N0rdman]

Full steam ahead! What a marvelous idea, maybe an electric motor power aircraft might be a second wind for a more silent aircraft.

[@miroslavsynek6046]

Well done, Ed! I have been into old aeroplanes since I was a schoolboy, but have never heard of this.

[@Razalonjrt1]

Maybe they thought they could in time iron out the problems, An intersting idea though to carry enough water fuel etc would take up alot of room as well. Great find Ed love your channels finds on odd one outs.

[@doraexplora9046]

I was only half listening when the vid started. But then I heard the 'lay the tracks down' joke and the cymbals. Cracked me up!

[@aaronlopez492]

Steam engine for aviation 🤔. I've heard of a worst idea how about a plane with an atomic reactor! What could possibly go wrong? Thanks for another excellent video.

[@awatt]

That was also a steam engine.

[@peter2uat]

'Steam Bird' by Hilbert Schenck (1988) describes the 'possibility' of an atom reactor driven giant airplane...

[@brianb-p6586]

nuclear aircraft propulsion was seriously proposed and partially developed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion

[@immikeurnot]

@@awatt Nope. The way they'd have used reactors to power aircraft had nothing to do with water.

[@awatt]

@@immikeurnot How then? I can wait.

[@oceanmariner]

It's to bad steam takes more fuel, maintenance, and crew. I sailed on many ships and steam ships were much quieter than diesel. On steam ships that I sailed, usually there was no noticeable engine noise. On some you heard the stack exhaust when on deck. But diesels vibrate throughout the ship.

[@wideyxyz2271]

Steam powered flying machines area a lot more common than people realize. It's a real "rabbit hole" topic, and there are documented cases of steam aircraft flying long before the Wright brothers. Great Video as always Ed.

[@tanegashima5395]

Granted it seems like those aircraft, unlike this example, were incapable of being controlled in flight

[@bigblue6917]

Wasn't there an Italian who built a steam powered floatplane back in the 1880s I think. He tried it out on a lake and claimed it did briefly fly though there were no witnesses

[@lassikinnunen]

Wright bros most important invention was the practical actually working 3 axis control of the flight.

[@yefroger3181]

1890: Frenchman Clément Ader made the first leap and rose 20 cm above the ground using a steam airplane. Check it out it resembled a giant bat !

[@darrellcook8253]

Too bad that isn't recreated with modern materials and powerplants. His propellers are so inefficient for the rpm and torque put on them and the frame. That thing was weird looking but I see possibilities. That would be fun.

[@stevecummins324]

oxyhydrogen burnt unter pressure, via a surface combuster for intense combustion without risk of it going boom. the steam is produced when then oxygen and hydrogen burn ie Flue gasses being hot steam. Avoids need for boiler, and avoids need to condense water. Probably not great for a fixed wing aircraft, due to weight of pressure tanks, but it might work OK for an airship.

[@PCTC47]

There is a steam engine at the Wichita Ks AIR MUSEUM too.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

The first aircraft to successfully take off and fly under steam power was Hiram Maxim's test bed vehicle in about 1884. As it was never actually intended to fly, just test the concept, it had no control surfaces. So, it was not counted as a controlled filght

[@gkdresden]

There was also a military project in the 1950/60ies on steam powered helicopters. A single seater named "Dragon Fly" and a double seater named "Atlas" were built und tested. The last presentation of them was at the Farnborough Air Show in 1998. But these helicopters had a very special steam generator, which uses 95% hydrogenperoxide and a silver catalyst and a very light weight engine. Today the use of such high percentage hydrogen peroxide is forbidden, because it could become very dangerous. Such steam generators were also used to operate rocket belts and jet packs.

[@MisterOcclusion]

Interesting. I knew of this aircraft, but not that it used Doble's technology. Perhaps the condenser was a WIP, as it makes no sense to add one if you’re not reusing the water. Certainly not in a plane, where pounds count, not to mention drag.

[@charlestonianbuilder344]

VERY steampunk airplane, something straight out of a novel! imagine if combustion engines neevr took off and instead steam engines got improved to that point, i can already imagine all sorts of things out of this!

[@bigblue6917]

In was thinking the same thing.

[@sailordude2094]

When (or if) you have no oil, these will be common. Like private cars in occupied Europe during WW2 using things like coal gas and steam. Don't do a loop though! Thanks for a very interesting plane and powerplant video.

[@christopherbernhardt]

You could spin an absolutely ludicrously big propeller with one of those. In fact, you could probably spin the whole aircraft like it's nothing, lol. I don't know if I like the idea of a fire being on the plane at all times, specifically, an exposed flame.

[@nemo6686]

15 minutes' flight time happens to be just right to cook a bag of vegetables to perfection in the steam exhaust. Not so crazy now, is it?

[@Paladin1873]

From what little I've read about the Besler, their experiment showed that steam power production dropped as altitude increased due to the effects of colder air on the boiler, condenser, and "fuel".

[@gwes4492]

I may be mistaken but I think there is a steam airplane at the Air Force Museum at Warner Robins.

[@stigbengtsson7026]

I just love people who have to try 😅 even if it will never be, you learn from it. Fx) You do not have to cranke the engine, it starts when the steam is on. ) You can reverse the engine, stopping fast. ) You can speake to the person beside you. ) Sems you could speak (loud) to people on the ground. And ofcorse today we are getting moore and moore experiment with electric propulsion, who have some similarity with steam dito.

[@bigblue6917]

As locomotives had been using water condensers for some time by this point I do wonder why they didn't use that.

[@adrianbruce2963]

Condensers on railway locos are actually very rare. All the examples that I know of were basically huge compared to the power generation bit. Ships had them and stationary power plants also - but both were seriously big. Railway engineers generally decided condensers simply weren't worth it.

[@johndavey72]

Hi Ed . That was very interesting indeed. Unfortunately like many innovative plans like this, many got derailed !!!!!!

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

I thought a stream powder airplane would not work due to size a steam engine more specific the size of the boiler and the weight of the coal used to heat the fire box and all the other systems

[@DataWaveTaGo]

Thank you for this look at a unique & interesting piece of aviation history.

[@jamesricker3997]

Slight problem, the aircraft would have to carry water as wall as fuel. That adds extra weight and reduced weight is paramount on an aircraft

[@glike2]

I wonder how good a modern version could be with water recovery and the latest materials science and super-efficient radiators

[@alexsv1938]

A more extreme example of this would be one of the proposed Me 264 variants that tried extremely hard to turn the whole plane into a flying boiler... and while the steam plane itself never got built, (I think) the company tasked to build the whole system did finish it.

[@todaylets2583]

I worked with Bessler's grand daughter about 15 years ago. She told some cool stories about him. Her parents have some of his drawings of engines and stuff.

[@tomkimmel8726]

I have interviewed as many people as I can find because I plan on writing a book on him. Can you send me contact information for the grandaughter? I was told that the daughter was only interested in horses and did not save any of Besler's steam stuff. Tom Kimmel

[@todaylets2583]

@@tomkimmel8726 I will see what I can do and pass on the info to her. The comment about the horses made me LOL because she is (was?) a barrel racer and a horsey person 100%! I got the feeling that she did not realize the impact her grand father made on the world we live in. I might be wrong about that, but that's the feeling I got at the time.

[@TRINITY-ks6nw]

Uears ago I spoke with a 2nd seater of that plane He stated the plane had no theoretical ceiling

[@Hellodarknessmyolefriend]

How does one keep stoking a fire on a steam aircraft? Plus coal or oil and water . Boilers would had added too much weight

[@SelectCircle]

Steam everything - NOW. What's the hold-up?

[@richardbell7678]

It sounds like the Besler Steam plane lacked a proper feedwater pump and feed water heater. Feed water pumps must force water into the boiler against the operating steam pressure. The greater the steam consumption and the higher the pressure, the worse the problem becomes. The old steam locomotives could get by with a steam driven injector that did double duty as a feedwater heater. Large powerplants need a powerful pump with its own steam turbine to drive it. Just forcing cold water from the condenser is going to reduce the boiler temperature and pressure, so the water must be heated before feeding, or more heat must flow into the boiler to keep the pressure up. Recycling the condensed steam during flight would reduce power and increase fuel consumption.

[@unr74]

There was a song titled “Steam Powered Aeroplane” by John Hartford back in the ‘70s

[@user-db2fb1db1m]

Love it Steam is good power , all forms of power Are GOOD . Multi fuel and a variety of mechanical systems are always good to have options.

[@luvr381]

You immediately mad me think of the nuclear powered Tu-95 and B-36, but neither used steam to fly.

[@SoloRenegade]

are you sure about that? how does a nuclear reactor generate electricity?

[@luvr381]

@@SoloRenegade The Tu-95 only carried a reactor aloft to see if it could be operated inflight, the B-36 was testing two different air cycle propulsion systems.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@luvr381 I say again, "how does a nuclear reactor produce electricity?" How does a nuclear reactor power an airplane? stop avoiding the question and just answer it.

[@proph7543]

@@SoloRenegade Neither of those engines used electricity to propel themselves. The two broad types of nuclear aircraft propulsion are Direct Air Cycle, where air is ingested into a jet's compressor, then funnelled into the reactor where it is superheated (and the reactor is cooled) and then funnelled back into the engine, into the turbine section and then out the back. This is a turbine engine where the combustion chamber is replaced with a nuclear reactor. The other type is called Indirect Air Cycle, and has a working medium (steam or molten salt) passed through the nuclear reactor then into a heat exchanger inside of the engine. This heat exchanger replaces the combustion chamber in a conventional turbine engine. These approaches work for turboprops and jet aircraft. The B-36 was a piston powered aircraft (primarily), but the experiments in which nuclear reactors were carried by B-36s were only to determine whether the shielding to protect crew and equipment could be carried in an aircraft without compromising safety or payload. There's no need to be so demanding of @luvr381, they'd replied to you once (when I was writing this comment, at least), and all of this information is available online.

[@nightshade4873]

@@SoloRenegade likely by doing the same as nuclear power plants do, use nuclear to produce steam and convert the pressure of the steam into electricity. though not much is known of how these test beds worked.

[@oldesertguy9616]

The quietness of the plane makes it seem worthwhile to develop.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

Electric planes are very quiet, probably quieter than the Besler could ever be.

[@zudemaster]

Did I miss something? Like how are they heating the boiler/water?

[@christhirion9474]

The steam condensation was to produce a vacuum that was use too de gas the feed water

[@leskeen4104]

I'm fairly certain that Henry Maxim, who went on to invent the machine gun, built and flew for a very short distance a steam-powered airplane which he flew in a London park. I can't swear to the date but records definitely exist including a plan of his engine.

[@grahamkearnon6682]

What was the fuel used to heat the boilers ?

[@WilhelmKarsten]

Kerosene was the preferred fuel, gasoline could also be used.

[@MrWillNeedham]

Steam power in aircraft sort of made a return in late WW2 - a number of the high powered piston engines could use water injection to achieve extra power for a limited time. This involved injecting water into the cylinders (as well as the normal fuel/air mixture). When the fuel ignited, the water would turn to steam and expand to provide an extra force on the pistons, exactly the same way it does in a steam engine. The only big difference is that the steam was generated inside the cylinders, rather than in an external boiler.

[@WordLight-m8q]

Sorta. Pretty sure this was mostly to reduce knock.

[@immikeurnot]

@@WordLight-m8q It was entirely to reduce preignition AKA detonation AKA "knock". Oldsmobile had a water/methanol injection system on their turbo car in the early '60s (first mass-produced turbocharged car), and to this day people who build cars with a lot of boost will run the stuff to keep the engine from destroying itself. The water being injected DOES NOT directly add to power. It's purely to prevent detonation. It's the increase in intake manifold pressure that gives the power gain. Always has been.

[@preonmodel9906]

This could be the future !! Very nice biplane could you do a video on it? Thanks Ed 🙏

[@Damorann]

You know it's a good channel when it references other channels you watched. Or am I stuck in a KZbin algorithm loop ?

[@philprice5712]

If only John Hartford could've flown in one. Gen-u-wine authentic old-fashioned steam powered aereoplane indeed! Thanks Ed.

[@theinspector1023]

Excellent video. The name Doble is pronounced 'doughble' and is Cornish in origin, I believe. The cars were fine machines.

[@philiphumphrey1548]

I'm surprised they used a 2 cylinder steam engine, it couldn't have been very efficient. The triple expansion engine was the standard for marine use (with 3 or 4 cylinders), but geared Parsons steam turbines were getting even more efficient by then and had a better power to weight ratio.