The Best Kept Web Dev Secret

A quick overview of jQuery.
💬 Topics:
- Is jQuery still relevant?
- Working with jQuery;
- jQuery vs React vs Angular;
- Modern frontend development.
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#javascript

[@ryanleemartin7758]

"that take somewhere between 5 seconds and a timeout" Gottem!

[@ryanlog]

where did the signal(0) and effect() function came from in jquery ?

[@awesome-coding]

That can be any type of signal library or custom implementation.

[@j7-dev]

Can you list some signal & effect libraries name? @@awesome-coding

[@jyjyjyj3]

A major drawback of vanilla JavaScript is the lack of a handy tool to split HTML templates into separate files without a build step. Web components are an option, but they have a non-intuitive interface and often require writing HTML in template strings, which can be inconvenient. To develop well, we still need to rely on building systems like Vite and templating solutions like JSX. In this situation, I think React is a better choice.

[@StiekemeHenk]

Honestly, web components feel wrong to me and I'm not sure why.

[@awesome-coding]

@StiekemeHenk maybe because of the awful DX? :))

[@awesome-coding]

@jyjyjyj3 fair enough! Good templating support has to be available. If it's not on the frontend, you'd defer it to the backend (where frameworks provide powerful templating tools). If i'm going the JSX route, I'm leaning towards Solid these days. In my opinion React is taking a pretty weird route with with their Server Components architecture.

[@juanmacias5922]

​@@awesome-coding same, I love Solid

[@jyjyjyj3]

​@@pessimistic_optimism This option is good for two scenarios: 1. Your team members know another language besides TypeScript. 2. You are working on a project by yourself and have the freedom to choose your own tools. However... For the first scenario, most company frontends are developed by separate frontend teams. And many people in those teams are not familiar with different languages and ecosystems. Regarding the second scenario, you can literally pick any technology that you like in this case and debating the merits of your chosen stack is pointless. Because usually, if you are working on a project alone or with a small company, you can easily overcome the problems of any stack.

[@viniciusantonio2253]

My first web dev job was on a small startup with only 3 employees (me included), the product was built using php on its purest form and jquery, I prefer to build web-dev using astro and solid, the question is, do I have a startup?... that's why I am considering moving forward to Laravel and Blade Templates with Jquery

[@awesome-coding]

The best tool is the tool helping you build actual products and make money.

[@dynamohack]

thats whats i was doing sticking to the traditional way of building web and now time is cyclic people came back to the thing which they gone from i love vanilla js and fck those react and other shit

[@AvionicsDev]

What do you mean by Batch Reads & Writes, Minimize Reflows & Repiants?

[@awesome-coding]

Here is a good read on the matter - dev.to/gopal1996/understanding-reflow-and-repaint-in-the-browser-1jbg

[@rawallon]

How come jQuery is not a json query language?

[@axMf3qTI]

Because jq is? jQuery was make to to make querying html with js easier and work the uniform on all browsers before we had the querySelector.

[@rawallon]

​@@axMf3qTIsounds like could have named it jDOM then

[@SRG-Learn-Code]

I've seen a lot of jquery used just to target elements, which might had been "difficult" 15 years ago but at this point it might be better to use vanilla JS.

[@awesome-coding]

I agree - the DOM api's are way better now, but I still feel like jQuery's DX is a bit more clean.

[@rhyscabonita5933]

I thought VDOM was faster than manipulating DOM 🤔🤔

[@awesome-coding]

That's a thing of the past. The DOM is fast enough these days, and frameworks like Svelte or Solid are actually working on the DOM directly. Thanks to their signal based reactivity models they can fully remove the vDOM dependency (which added a layer of complexity on top of everything else, more objects in the heap and so on).

[@rhyscabonita5933]

@@awesome-coding I see. That's so cool. Thanks for the answer!

[@simonhartley9158]

I am entertained

[@awesome-coding]

🥳

[@Slaci-vl2io]

We'll see if that's true. Until then, I prefer to learn French.

[@awesome-coding]

The language of love - always a good investment!

[@grinsk3ks]

I agree that jQuery was a god sent back in the day. On the other hand I have never seen a good jQuery codebase. It's always hot garbage.

[@awesome-coding]

That's fair. However, most of the codebases I've seen turn into garbage after a few years.

[@hichemrekouane882]

jQuery is enough as long as you don't need state management ...

[@jyjyjyj3]

I think real projects where you need state management are about 1% of all projects. On commercial projects I have worked on, we often had Redux, but it caused more inconvenience than benefit

[@awesome-coding]

I don't find this argument valid anymore.. "State management" is made to sound complex since the React Redux days, where they made this data problem bigger than it needs to be. In the meantime, even React suggests that the Context API is good enough for most cases, and lightweight solutions like Recoil were built inside Facebook as well. Libraries like Solid and Nano Stores (which can be as small as 298 bytes) showed that you can elegantly solve this problem with just a few lines of code.

[@juanmacias5922]

@@awesome-coding right, but none of your solutions included jQuery lol just saying.

[@theklr]

@@juanmacias5922 he mentioned two, plus zustand, xState, redux toolkit, mobx, and valtio all have non react patterns on their site. Are you just trolling?

[@mma93067]

The most-error prone part of frontend is caching. When state remains in the only the backend, that an entire class of finagling off the table

[@benheidemann3836]

Umm… jquery is 30kB minified… 🤔🤔🤔 it’s not what you want to go for if your goal is to avoid bloat

[@awesome-coding]

jQuery slim is unde 20kb. One big advantage though - jQuery is used in like 90% of known websites, so the chances it is already cached by your browser are pretty big. An alternative like Solid (which is around 8kb I believe) is indeed smaller, but there is little chance it is already cached, and, either way it is going to be bundled by vite with a hash name that's unique to your site. Either way, I get what you are saying - at 20kb jQuery is still bloated compared to some of the alternatives.

[@SRG-Learn-Code]

How is "Strive for zero JS" a win for jquery? EDIT: Ok, you have answered another question like this as "Fair enough - bad wording on my part there." Is a little like HTMX. Is invisble JS but in the end you need JS enabled. ADs and tracking madness this days is pushing more people to block scripts and even disable JS. For a lot of the web shouldn't matter. We should thrive for the progressive enhancement but keep the web mostly HTML and CSS when is just content, which, a lot of the time is just that.

[@awesome-coding]

Hey! I think this needs a bit more clarification, mostly because the way I'm usually using jQuery might not be the norm. So the way that I see it, jQuery should be used to sprinkle in interactivity and improve UX. This usually implies server side rendering via a backend framework, and the use of links & forms to move around the app / pass data to the server (which requires no JS). Then, on the client, those forms requests can be made async, you can add in drop downs, search suggestions, sliders and other stuff you might feel are useful. My wording was bad in the sense that I didn't fully explain this architecture. My reasoning was that with jQuery you can achieve zero js websites, but with a framework like React or Angular this is not possible.

[@namaefumei]

No please

[@ernestoherreralegorreta137]

Your excessive and indiscriminate use of irrelevant video snippets makes watching your actual presentation an unsufferable chore. I subscribed because I saw good content from you once, but this work of yours is the equivalent of a picture book for those unable or unwilling to read "just plain text".

[@awesome-coding]

I understand your frustration, and I actually value your feedback. The reality of KZbin is that people like seeing a lot of visual stuff, and not "just plain text". (This was obvious since I get way more traction with this kind of content) Nevertheless, I get your point and I'll try to do a better job making the visuals more relevant to the actual topic of the video.

[@ABDTalk1]

close your eyes

[@awesome-coding]

@@ABDTalk1 and open your heart! ✌

[@ABDTalk1]

i wasn't saying that to you 😳😳@@awesome-coding

[@awesome-coding]

@@ABDTalk1 I know - I was simply making a joke😊 Thank you for your support!

[@flipperiflop]

As much as I love jQuery, at the end there is a silly mistake being made with the zero js: jQuery != zero js

[@awesome-coding]

Fair enough - bad wording on my part there.