THE BIGGEST DEBATE IN BOWLING // HOW TWO HANDED TOOK OVER

[@OneHandedBowling]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2TYopqrgMaJiJY I responded to many of your comments since it extremely underperformed, and kinda bad it will remain unlisted.

[@michaelfinley9988]

I’m more impressed with pba players like EJ that have perfected the one handed style/release to the point he has just as many or more revs than a majority of 2 handers.

[@TheRgf795]

Technically, the ball is released using only one hand by the so-called two-handers. The other hand supports the cradling of the ball until it is released on the downward swing. A two-handed release will require both hands to roll the ball, but that is not the case. Hence, all bowlers are one-handers.

[@jasonsmith3537]

The biggest misconception of 2-handed bowling is that many people really ask or think that we throw with both hands. The answer is no... That extra hand is our thumb because of the angle our bodies are when we throw. Without it, the ball would fall. Really, it's no different than the 2-finger, underhanded, 1-handed bowlers I see more of than 2-handers. Except, we can get lower to the ground. I'm 47 years old and changed to 2-handed 5yrs ago after the wrist and hip started becoming an issue after so long. Changing over was not easy....and it didn't give me an advantage. I averaged a 216 one-handed.... and after 5yrs since the change I am just over 200. The revs might be more, but I feel that there are more mechanics to keeping consistent with 2-hands compared to when I threw 1-handed. One thing I will say, most can't believe I am a 2-hander at my age and can get low like that.... but... it has GREATLY taken the stress off my body and I am rarely sore the next day after a tournament weekend compared to 1-handed. I used to not be able to move my wrist or even spread butter on bread after a weekend when I was 1-handed.

[@jonahdeffenbaugh5264]

It should be "thumb in" and "no thumb" rather than "one hand" vs "two hand". On Facebook, Jason Belmonte posted a picture of him bowling but his right fingers were still inside the ball with his left hand away from it with the caption "Look Mum.... 1 hand" EJ Tackett commented on the photo stating this: "You know I’ve had many arguments with folks about this exact thing and my point is where is the statute of limitations? Technically I start with 2 hands on the ball too and my left hand just comes off the ball earlier than yours does. So are we all 2 handed or we all 1 handed? 🧐😎 out of current players I know of Breanna Clemmer is technically the only true 1 hander since her entire delivery start to finish only has 1 hand on the ball. So, just bowl in a way you can enjoy the game and gives you the best results!!"

[@BlahKDubstep]

I don’t mind two handers. Using two hands means nothing if you can’t be accurate. I will say I am much better one handed then two handed but eventually it may come to a point where you have to be able to bowl both one and two handed proficiently

[@stevefrancis7588]

Not true. More revs from two handers creates a bigger room for error at the entry point.

[@BlahKDubstep]

@@stevefrancis7588 That is true

[@No_Lucks_Given]

1. Consistency 2. Accuracy 3. Power This is how it ranks in order of importance as far as bowling is concerned. And you can be extremely successful in bowling if you only have the top 2 and you're a very bad bowler if you only have the 3rd. The funny thing is 2 handed bowling gives you tons of power and makes consistency and accuracy much harder to achieve. So when people complain I just laugh.

[@agoo7581]

It's almost as if the people who complain about two-handed bowling, no absolutely nothing about it, much less even tried it once to test their theory of it being "so easy". It's like, bro, if two hands makes the game so easy, then pick it up, there are plenty of amateur tournaments out there and there is still some money to be won.

[@drwisdom1]

I have been bowling since 1979 (45 years) so I know what is going on. Two handed is more powerful and will be the dominant method for men from now on. Back in the old days of wood lanes two handed would never have worked so it didn't arise. But the advent of synthetic lanes, powerful balls, and finger grips changed everything. It was only a matter of time until bowlers figured out how to take advantage of that. Here are the core rules of bowling: 1) if you don't knock down all the pins on your first shot you get a second shot to try to get them all, 2) you can't go past the foul line, 3) you can't go when it isn't your turn, 4) your ball can't be heavier than 16 pounds. That rule system was written to allow two-handed bowling. If you can succeed by standing backwards and throwing it between your legs, that is Ok too. Bowling is both simple to understand and very discreet eliminating contentious calls like pass interference.

[@enigmazero8624]

Osku actually made his first show in 2004 at the US Open. It’s absolutely worth a watch for how people didn’t know what to make of it.

[@Mikey-1990]

I'm a one hander, but I really don't care if someone uses two hands or not. You could throw the ball between your legs for all I give a damn. Look at Walter Ray Williams JR. Greatest bowler of all time and he even uses two hands sometimes. That's a great tool to have if you can throw it both ways effectively.

[@blakeattig5426]

I can confirm that Getting all the 2 handing fundamentals down is very hard and takes a ton of time. It took me well over 3 years to do.

[@enigmazero8624]

Back to back player of the year has been done by 7 different players. Belmo was 40 years late to be the first. Gotta check those facts a bit better.

[@arontoh8351]

I dont know if anyone would agree with me on this, if 2 handed bowling was not a thing the interest/curiosity towards bowling would be almost halfed in todays context. There are so many youngins out there that only started bowling because of the 2 handed exposure. 2 handed bowling has brough back a psuedo revival in the numbers of people actually heading to a bowling alley

[@majinwayzxp8540]

I agree with this 100%! I’ve always liked bowling, but I could never bowl one handed due to an arm injury in my younger teenage years. I don’t have a lot of arm strength or grip strength. When I discovered 2 handed bowling I was all in. I’m now at my local bowling alleys 3 to 4 times a week perfecting my 2 handed style because it’s given me confidence that I can. Plus, I don’t see two handers winning every competition. One handers still win quite a bit. Take EJ Tacket for example.

[@M1Arthur]

I'm a one hander and I've learned something from two handed bowlers that actually made me better because they remove the traditional approach but finish the same

[@wrongfootbowler]

I thought the idea of the game is to knock down pins so who cares how you release the ball?

[@shaneimler9328]

My argument is that now the average house shot is being set up to accommodate two handed bowlers, at least around here. 15 years ago, and still throwing the same today, I was considered a cranker. I'd swing the ball from 16 to 3 on an average night to t the pocket at around 17mph. Throwing the same ball, with the strongest equipment, its more often 7 to 3 which qualifies as a stroker. When they oil up the lanes to combat two handed bowlers it's tough to generate power unless you have the pros one handed revs. Yes I can still consistently get to the pocket, but now I leave many nine counts instead of striking. If you move inside, the ball just skids down the lane.

[@countrycountry6729]

Just a league bowler. (66 years old and I suck), but have a good time. Im wondering if...2 handed bowlers will become 1 handed later in life. It appears to be more stressful on the back muscles. Im just wondering... that's all. No biggie.

[@HippieP629]

I've thought the same when watching Simo and others. Bending at a 90 deg or so makes me wonder if that'll take a toll

[@rjulofkerlum7643]

@@countrycountry6729 Seeing Walter Ray bowl two-handed, I'd tend to say that either their style will massively change or they will switch to 1 handed. Walter Ray can bowl 2 handed but has nowhere near the spine tilt or foot speed of the younger professionals

[@justingameshowchannel7668]

correction Osku first event was the 2004 us open

[@quinn-tessential3232]

2-handed bowlers are virtually never as accurate as 1-handers, and yet they are able to succeed nonetheless in today's game. That's because the game, even at the professional level, no longer requires the same degree of accuracy in order to score. Moreover, the dynamics of ball technology and lane conditioners and patterns (and their manipulation) gives 2-handers an advantage. The game could reel this back in if they wanted, but apparently don't care. I personally find the men's game much less interesting to watch than the women's game because of the absurd excess valuation of power over accuracy in the men's game.

[@ian-th7rd]

It’s like tennis, to the eye and as a fan I do not enjoy watching two hander backhand players. Same as in bowling but it’s totally legal at the end of the day is about taking down pins

[@gunz300]

2-Handed bowling only is as strong as it is on tour is because of Bowlero. The PBA puts out the softest patterns that are designed for power to dominate because that's what drives ratings. The only two events that really value shot making are the Masters and the U.S. Open and those are both USBC events. Put out sensitive, tight patterns and you'll see the power advantage dissolve. The best two handers will still find a way, but it won't be strictly due to power.

[@timbrock2785]

I remember when throwing with 2 hands was illegal…and you can’t say it doesn’t have advantages when the kid who started in high school, throwing with 2 hands was on the PBA tour and almost winning within 4 years

[@nathangreen9167]

Honeslty from what I saw over the year is some start 2 handed specially kids if for the big hook cause it looks cool. But I tried it and it's not easy. Plus I don't like the restrictive feel. Bowling 1 handed I can flow and take my time to the line.

[@akt8384]

it doesn't matter one or two handed, both can be legal, BUT if every bowler on tv is two handed, i will switch it off or fall asleep, it is so boring so lame

[@whyamihere2366]

The big problem with the pba is they aren't trying to limit the advantage of going two-handed. You can switch to one handed for spares which is really not that hard to do. Im not against two handed at all their are just some clear ways to make the game fair for both sides but they ignore the clear advantages that they give. Also look up weight holes for bowling it gives more context to the situation

[@damarapoledna3636]

I tried two handed bowling back in the early nineties. Didn't care for it. Been one handed since.

[@rockorockwell1420]

Osku made the 2004 US Open show and bowled WRWJ.

[@rockorockwell1420]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpOygaSYj5eDbqssi=5ZBLLdn3Tlqfw7X0

[@michaelpatterson4718]

Check my comment lol. There’s a lot more mistakes than just that one

[@steveperry1344]

I do not like to watch two handed bowlers in tv matches, the one handers have such great form and a pleasure to watch and the one handers look like hacks. i'll either look away when they bowl or change the channel.

[@n.w.ogreenie9632]

I have had surgery in my left hand, which happens to be my dominant hand. I physically cannot hold the ball with one hand anymore, so I had to switch to two handed. I love bowling 1 handed, 2 handed is only easier for me because I am taking most of the weight off of my surgery hand.

[@remoevans7847]

I started bowling with 2 hands when I first started at 9 years old. Went to one hand as I grew up and stronger. 😂

[@sm4r7sh4d3r]

What I found: there is no speciffic rule how the ball has to be thrown. "4a. Legal Delivery: A delivery is made when the ball leaves the player’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory." Source USBC Playing Rules.

[@kif1re]

Before everything merged into the USBC. The ABC rules stated right or left handed. The YABA(youth association) stated right, left or two handed. And had a stipulation about the switch as the child grows out of a two handed style to a one handed style they had to be reestablish a new average. Technically making two handed bowling against the rules in the US, The issue arises as the PBA and international competitions had no such rules. Some of those still exist in USBC rules, all the YABA language for youth was cut though. For example being ambidextrous I cannot use both hands in a game(Or a set and requires a whole new average, also a league secretary has the option to deny offhand averages forcing primary), I cannot throw left handed and right handed. But I think it's stupid a two hander can use both hands. and on top of that legally Drop to one hand if need be on spares.

[@sm4r7sh4d3r]

@@kif1re interesting, thx for sharing :)

[@tokyosan7906]

The bottom line is one handed or two, if you aren't good enough to win, you won't. If you are, you will. Wow.

[@JoshFiver]

A channel called OneHandBowling, talking about how 2 handed style changed the fame forever. Yeah… this won’t be biased…..

[@John-or4rp]

I'm a great basketball player and an Ok bowler. I figure if you can shoot a basketball with 1 or 2 hands then why not a bowling ball?

[@startrek4486]

It will be ban in the Olympics if bowling ever gets in ? I would like to watch a repeated shot of a 2 hand player to see if the other hand generates more rev's power and so forth. If this is allowed then why cant we have the side hole back in the ball and so on.

[@KJ4VGA]

I dont see how rules regarding weight holes are even a remotely comparable rule. I think not allowing weight holes was stupid and just a push to sell more balls, but really has no relevance at all.

[@jimmyscott6159]

You all must don’t remember the old saying “Two hands are better than one”.

[@galkanftw]

"why doesn't everyone do it" is not a valid excuse. Yes sometimes the release is only one hand but usually it is NOT because the other hand is helping to rev the ball and can also be seen often.The very obvious is that IF it is only a one handed release why are people calling it two handed bowling ..lol.Everyone starts with both hands on the ball and we don't say everyone is 2 handed bowling. 2 handed msot certainly creates more revs it is not even debatable I have tried it and yeah I can create a ridiculous shot. I have recently gone over the RULE and explained why 2 handed is not and should not be considered a legal shot. I can point to the previous great before Belmonte >>Walter Ray he has recently been going to two handed shots when he is struggling to carry because he KNOWS it creates a better striking ball but nothing guarantees accuracy or consistency.

[@SandMarcusJ]

I'm guessing your parents were sleeping during the voice over of this video. Or maybe you're in a Library.

[@louiskuamoo]

Could Belmo or Simo win one handed? First prove you can win one handed before going to two handed bowling! This craze has reshaped how bowling was suppose to be! Because of two handed, even ball drilling has changed! Everyone wants to win like Belmo & Simo, that's why they go two handed! More revs, more hook power!

[@danielchoi8518]

whats the background song?

[@lonnieschwartzkopf2185]

Still release with one hand

[@rodneyshelby4371]

I don't care how you throw the ball down the lane two-handed one-handed kick it down the lane you still have to get a strike😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Jest_Fishing]

Two handed is two handed. If it wasn't it wouldn't be called it. Though it may not be illegal it by far creates pin carry that is not possible for the majority of one handed bowlers.. Maybe the question should be how do we even the score between to two style of releases. Or maybe the game splits and the two styles don't compete against each other.

[@aIIix]

why in the world would you split the game into two games. The NBA guy who shoots over 90% FT using granny shot should not be scored differently from everyone else. Stop being silly my man.

[@jacknguyen.2409]

More power does not equate to better pin carry (THOUGH IT MATTERS). It is a combination of major factors including entry angle, and deflections (which all comes from where how you attack the pattern, i.e. where do you stand and which ball to use), and that's considering you have already hit your mark, which I assume most people don't because they be bowling on a house shot. At the top level, where all the guys put at least 400 RPM on the balls and throwing them at 20 mph making pockets most of the time, they get the same carry, and it is insane carry. It seems that way because "the majority of bowlers" can barely put any revs on the ball, and letting the core + cover do all the work, which stems from the fact that they never took the time to perfect that specific area of the game. Remember, POWER is an essential part of the game, but it is not without ACCURACY and CONSISTENCY.

[@HippieP629]

@@jacknguyen.2409 I play in 2 leagues and watch local tournys. When the ball comes off the spot from a 2-hander, on average, it's traveling faster toward the pocket or close to it. I see more explosions and pin carry than most 1 handers. I see it 3x a week. My assumption that using twice the muscle for 99% of the overall entry gives a physiological advantage for some players UNLESS that 1 hander is really pulling the ball down from the apex of the swing. 1 handers, historically, have been taught to "let the ball bring itself down". That methodology is outdated and should be ignored if a 1 hander wants that same type of pin carry or explosion, especially when the ball doesn't hit flush. From what I've read and heard, this is the reason why some ppl feel the game should be split. I'm not arguing a point. These are my observations.

[@ripvanrevs]

3:12 Sean Rash using two hands. 8:09 another two hander The difference isn't whether you use two hands or one, it's whether you start with your thumb in or out of the ball.

[@rjulofkerlum7643]

5:04 Belmo didn't win the ToC until 2014. You may just be off by 10 years, as he won the ToC in 2019 and his first US Open title in 2020.

[@OneHandedBowling]

you are correct, idk how I f'd up that badly, gonna fact check myself better from now on!

[@davem2779]

Who friggin cares. Cry all you want. The point is to get the ball from point A to point B and knock down as many pins as you can. I don't care if you bowl underhand, overhand, between your legs, or backwards. The goal is to knock down the pins. Sports has developed over years. Football use to be just a running game until someone threw the ball. Bowl how you want.

[@DS-qz2gu]

I bowled one handed for 2 years and recently switched to two handed. I can confidently say that bowling two handed is a massive advantage. I’m definitely more accurate bowling one handed, but having the revs to be able to play every part of the lane and play urethane effectively has been a game changer.

[@ns671fr]

I can play every part of the lane and have release options with one hand so not sure how it's an advantage besides revs. Just have to learn how to get rotation on it. The 1 handers still dominate the sport there's just too many good 1 handers. There's some good 2 handers I've seen but they're not our top bowlers. I see alot of 2 handers that struggle with some spares that wouldn't ever be an issue for 1 hand.

[@chaos0852]

@@ns671frBelmonte is not a top bowler? Man has more majors than anyone

[@ns671fr]

@@chaos0852 never said 2 handers can't be good. I'm saying 1 hand still runs it. And it's possible to still be high rev. 2 handers in pba are getting more though. But 1 handers seem to still be the majority.

[@DS-qz2gu]

@@ns671fr I guess I should clarify what I meant here. I'm not at all saying 1 handed isn't viable. I'm just saying that in my opinion, all other things equal, bowling 2 handed is an advantage. Like if you took two bowlers with zero experience and coached one 1-handed and the other 2-handed, I'm VERY confident that the 2-hander would be bowling competitively way before the 1-hander even figured out how to put ample revs on the ball. That's why we have so many young bowlers going 2-handed. The "entry-level" for bowling competitively with high revs is just so much lower for 2-handed than for 1-handed. Consider my case. I bowled 1-handed for around 2 years and got up to a ~210 league average doing that. I switched to 2-handed around 2 months ago and my average initially dropped, but for the past month I've been consistently above my 1-handed average. The rev difference is insane. And yes, 1-handers can get the revs that 2-handers do, but it's not easy and it takes much longer to develop the strength + technique to do that than it does for a 2-hander.

[@ns671fr]

I think 2 hand might become a majority in due time though because I knew my biggest thing I had to work on for 1 hand was strength conditioning and lots of the new people won't put in that work.

[@robvoyles]

Two handed is much harder to be accurate with all that rev rate and ball speed. i bowl both ways and one handed is much easier to be accurate. Jason couch is a butt hole. without 2 handed bowling the sport would be dead. period.

[@steveburton2165]

All the women that bowl throw a 15 lb ball with one hand..... And all the guys that bowl throw it with 2... Why do you drill holes in a bowling ball ? To hold it and hang on to it. If your off hand is holding it,, no need for extra lift from those finger holes? If you have to swing it with both hands on the ball, there should be no holes in the ball for extra grip! 2 handed bowling is like doing pushups on your knees..... I've averaged over 230 years,, I have over 30 300 games and almost 30 800's and a house record of 889 at a center. Now, I watch people that have bowled for a handful of seasons,, put up numbers that took dedicated players decades to get to,, within months..... Bowling's problem started with technology boom with urethane in the 80's. If you couldn't hook the ball, like the "good" players,, they used technology to make it so you could. So the guys or girls that had that "trick" to get that ball to hook more than the other person,, they took that trick away from them, with a new ball for the other people who couldn't do it Bowling now, and for the last 30 years or so,, is consumer driven game, where the bowling ball companies dictate the game. If it was based on skill, the top scratch bowling would be done with everyone using the same ball, with the same surface on every ball. That's where true skill would come into play.

[@BowlerJ1]

Two handed bowling is illegal - in my not so humble opinion - because the thumbhole isn't used (or drilled into the ball). PBA rules required a bowling ball to have two fingerholes and one thumbhole. Nobody thought to add any language about using the thumbhole because it was understood that it would be used. It's kind of like me handing you a pair of shoes - must I tell you to tie the laces when you put them on? Well, the precedent was set when Mike Miller didn't use his thumbhole on a telecast. He even shot 300 swinging the ball this way, without the use of his other hand. It isn't bowling and never should have been allowed. Thanks for listening.

[@Mainzer74]

Lmao spoken like a crybaby

[@pyrofusiondancer]

2 handed is a 2 handed release. But it is legal either way. The idea that "it leaves your hand in one hand" is fallacious, because you are using the off-hand for support, power, and spin up to a few milliseconds before release. But again - it doesn't matter. You can literally line up 3 lanes down, throw the ball overhead like a soccer throw-in: this is legal. You can kick the ball down the lane. Also legal. You can head butt the ball down the lane. You can roll it down your chest like a dinosaur roller. You can butt bump it. All legal. There is virtually no limitations on the way you can deliver the ball down the lane. Check the USBC rules on it. The question is not "can we." The answer is "should we?" My answer is this: Bowling is done with one hand. It's done with one hand in lawn bowling, in cricket, in bowls, in bocce, in duckpin, candlepin, 9-pin, it's how it's been done for 5,000 years. 2 handed delivery of a ball is a definitely a skill, but it is not bowling as has been recognizable for millenia. It's a different sport in the way that rugby is a different sport from soccer. And I gladly troll the shit out of the PBA facebook every day I can to remind them of that.

[@michaelpatterson4718]

Osku made the US Open show in 2004, his first TV Show was not in 2008. The guy you were thinking of from the FloBowling documentary is Chuck Lande. Jason Belmonte did not win the 2010 Tournament of champions, that was Kelly Kulick, and did not win the 2011 US Open, that was Norm Duke. Belmonte also was not the first player to win back to back POY. Walter has 3 peated in the 90s. He also did not win POY in 2016, that was EJ Tackett. and EJ Tackett did not win POY in 2018, that was Andrew Anderson. Osku did not win the WBT finals in 2009, that tournament did not exist. Osku did not win the 2012 TOC, that was Sean Rash. Your videos are mostly really good, but this one is absolutely horrible. You should do actual research before you do these. To me, it seems like you used AI assistance and just assumed it was all correct before actually researching. Please be better.

[@lockedonlaw]

Two-handed bowling took over because it allows for the sale of more bowling balls. Period. The lane conditions have been altered to favor two-handers. They put more lane conditioner on one lane now than they used to use for an entire 32 lane house. I know. I've been a lanesman and bowling mechanic since 1972. We used to apply the lane conditioner by hand with a spray bottle and a foam roller. It went 18 feet. Two-handers couldn't keep the ball on the lane if they did that today. Asymmetric high performance resin balls couldn't sell if they did that today. What used to be a game where accuracy and consistency were key has become a game where speed and revs are key. When you have the greatest champions in the history of the game retiring or moving to the senior tour because they can't carry, it tells you all you need to know.

[@Mr.300kingpin]

You can't use 2 hands to spin in Foose ball. It's obvious they are getting twice the revs. Should be banned! Not impressed! Oh wait the Yankees just signed a 2 handed pitcher! I made the hall of fame the real way! Beat Norm Duke the real way in 1994. I was 14. Bob Benoit style is acceptable, and Tom D is acceptable. No more kangaroo hoping! Greatest bowler in the world is not Belmo!

[@nonbeliever3169]

This was mind numbing to watch.