The Book of Job - A Very Bad Tuesday - Old Testament - Extra Mythology

[@NinjaxPrime]

One nuance that this rendition of the story omits. God doesn't just say "it's all cool." He explicitly tells Job's friends that Job has been in the right the whole time- even during his frustration.

[@nknight5072]

That is true nice catch

[@VodShod]

@Mullerornis what god or job

[@benjamincederberg818]

Tho that dosnt include the fourth friend that they didn't mention, which is intresting

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@benjamincederberg818 he's actually very historically interesting, possibly added later on.

[@liyuanqian9143]

More like is the term omnibenevolent meaningful when a human is unable to comprehend the greater context? Humans can only comprehend omnibenevolent within the confines of human minds.

[@emptank]

God getting angry at Job's friends wasn't miss direction it's the whole point of the story. The Israelites were given the Law from God and were warned that if they broke the law bad things would happen to them. So there is a powerful temptation to assume that anyone who is suffering is doing so because of something that is there own fault. Here God explains that actually it might just be a test to make their faith actually worth something. So that person could still be innocent and so you should help them not sit there and judge them. Outside of a religious context it's speaking out against the tendency to assume that since people can always better themselves that the poor conditions of their lives are the result of them just not being smart enough, or motivated enough, or determined enough to change things and therefore it's their own fault that they are suffering and therefore you don't have to do anything to help them. But you don't know everything. You don't know everything about the world, about their lives, about how they think, what they've tried and what they haven't. You don't know that they have actually done anything wrong. They might just be shit out of luck and they certainly do still need your help. It's not your job to stand there and moralize at a person for days on end, it's your job to get them inside, into fresh cloths, get them a meal and find out how to get them back on their feet.

[@Shousaphine]

Fantastic interpretation of the lesson! I don't like the "you can't understand god's ways" part, because that argument keeps being used at me to explain away not helping people, but I do genuinely like your interpretation. c:

[@ElBandito]

@@Shousaphine "Mysterious ways" has been used by religious figures too often to convince me anymore.

[@Shousaphine]

@@ElBandito Absolutely agreed. I quit my parents' religion 9 years ago. But I do like the lesson of "You can't know their circumstances, so you should help instead of judge." Job has always bothered me, of course.

[@grimwatcher]

That is a great interpretation of that lesson, even as an atheist now I struggled to understand the point of Job, so thanks for that.

[@grimwatcher]

@Cannibal Teddy I wouldn't go as far calling the bible great literature since it's moral lessons and imagery are pretty simplistic, but to each their own. I've read the book several times and the question of why the innocent suffer from a christian perspective was never more sophisticated than "it's all part of the plan" But I can see how God represents the uncertainty of life and the universe and this work tries to interpret the suffering of innocent as both, something outside our control, and serving a greater purpose and how faith in the latter is the point.

[@cassidy4037]

How to tell if someone is a god/non-human in Extra Credits: They have arms and eyes

[@chris7263]

Omg, I just noticed.

[@VodShod]

So this is the Rayman universe?

[@gerardogaribayruiz3027]

Holymother, that's true

[@sarthakmaan7075]

And nose👃

[@Manddot]

Also neck

[@mpiacheese]

"And even a shiny brand new family" Wow that's amazing

[@giladkay3761]

Lol, couldn't really fix that could he...

[@camgillrie]

One thing to keep in mind is that he got double everything he had before but only got the same number of family members he had before . You can’t replace family but when he is in heaven he will have double the amount of family members to spend eternity with.

[@johndetrick29]

Cameron Gillrie Look at that! Someone who knows what he’s talking about.

[@tobybartels8426]

@@camgillrie : Oo, clever!

[@ryat66]

@@camgillrie Again, glossing over the horrible killings of the original family, just so Yahweh can settle a bet.

[@akingofdashit]

Abandon hope, ye who enter this here comment section

[@notajalapeno4442]

thanks

[@thatgingerbastard9154]

Oh boy... They really kicked the hornet's nest with this one, huh?

[@Wilge_Zomer]

Thanks!

[@aentn]

another one

[@theblasblas]

Seriously.. it's disgusting how many people are willing to excuse God in this instance. Makes me lose even more faith in humanity.

[@Hawkinson88]

"Can I have my original family back please?" 'No'

[@lanebowles8170]

I know most christian sects don't believe in eternal marriage and family, but in the LDS church, this is strong evidence that marriage and family can be eternal.

[@riverofblood4362]

Yo! Is that the Inferno Squad logo?

[@Fordo007]

They'll be waiting in heaven for an eternity. Life on earth is but a blink of the eye compared to eternity after death.

[@VodShod]

@@Fordo007 do you even have any proof that such an eternity even exists? If I believe that torturing and killing the poor will bring about their happiness in the next life, then why not start killing them all? After all the sooner you send them to heaven the sooner they can be at peace, unless you want them to suffer. Or maybe you are not confident that there even is an afterlife.

[@Sporkinator]

Job's family died, and went to heaven. Heaven was amazing, so of course they refused to return to Earth. Also death is usually a one-way-trip.

[@DragoniteSpam]

I'm never going to complain about Tuesdays again.

[@James-en1ob]

Me too

[@notajalapeno4442]

mondays am i right or am i right

[@mohammadsaleem5990]

@@notajalapeno4442 garfield wants to know your location

[@notajalapeno4442]

@@mohammadsaleem5990 the milky way more specifically Earth

[@mohammadsaleem5990]

@@notajalapeno4442 cool. Imma go tell him.

[@Yannis1a]

In the Hebrew interpretation of the Book of Job, the word "sâtan" means "The accuser" so to the Hebrew that angel is just the accuser angel a servant of God, as they don't belive in the devil or a hell like the christian do

[@Schadrach42]

Making him something closer to an angelic prosecutor. Which just goes to show the truth of a certain modern adage, A.C.A.B.

[@nknight5072]

Very correct Satan meant accuser or opposer

[@Yannis1a]

​@@Schadrach42 I would compering him more like a medival Executioner or a punisher, punishing does who God wanted to be punish, this is why he ask to punish someone who love God, believing all humans where the same and like the rest of those he punished would eventually curse God, basiclly saying that the humans love of God only depends on whether God is good to them, and God put his theory to the test

[@Yannis1a]

@@Schadrach42 but a prosecutor would be suitable modern comparasion

[@Pentagram619]

Hell doesn't even exist in actual text within the bible. Christian Hell didn't come into full frame until Dante wrote the Divine Comedy and further compounded by Paradise Lost. Gehenna and Sheol are the examples used for where souls who have sinned go after death, and empty, barren field. Meaning that total death, with no chance of resurrection, was the punishment for sin.

[@notablegoat]

God: Welp the devil triple dog dared me to do this so I guess I gotta Also God: Don't pretend you could understand my motivations

[@stevencooper4422]

Was Job not blessed double after his trials? Isn't that still better than the lives many of us have?

[@JonahHW]

@@stevencooper4422 I don't know about you, but if I had kids, I wouldn't want to kill them all so that I could have a family twice the size later

[@beufis6979]

@@stevencooper4422 nah, cloudman let angryman kill his family for the luls. That's kind of ass.

[@rolfs2165]

@@stevencooper4422 No amount of blessings can bring back a dead loved one, though. That's something you carry with you for the rest of your life.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

And in the end, he gave Job back his plantation. Slaves and all.

[@abcdef27669]

"And God shows two mighty beasts fighting each other". So God just show spoilers from the next Godzilla movie to Job?

[@directrulefromgamerchair3947]

Or he showed him Gork and Mork, the two gods of the xenos known as Orks, perpetually fighting in the warp...

[@shadowshots9393]

All i can see is jurassic park and the leviathan scp

[@shinsetsusha]

@@shadowshots9393 Actually one of them is the leviathan, while the other one is called behemoth.

[@CadetGriffin]

Cthulhu vs. the Kraken

[@misterminutes4504]

@@CadetGriffin Now that I wanna see

[@pi4t651]

I think in glossing over Elihu, you've completely missed the point the author is trying to make. Shortly before God himself shows up, Job's "friends" give up trying to convince him that he's being punished for some terrible sin. Then this guy called Elihu, who's apparently been listening in for a while, speaks up and offers his take. I always used to read this as just another person in the same group as Job's three friends, but at the end of the book God conspicuously *doesn't* tell Elihu off for misrepresenting him like he does Job's friends. And when God starts speaking, he seems to continue what Elihu has been saying rather than contradicting him. In a book with several meaningful names (Job means "hated", for example) Elihu's name means "My God is He". I think that Elihu is supposed to be giving the true explanation of Job's sufferings; and God just shows up to endorse him, and to back him up by offering some insight into his divine perspective. By just reading God's half of the argument, we rather miss the point. Elihu starts out by saying that Job's sufferings may not be a punishment as such, but a warning - God might be allowing this stuff to happen because Job is sinning in a way he's not realised and God is trying to expose that problem to him before he ends up actually being punished for it. He argues that Job is mistaken about God being unjust, since that's fundamentally impossible. Elihu then goes on to suggest what he thinks Job's problem is: while Job has been doing all the right stuff, his view of God is sort of like a human ruler or one of the local pagan gods - Job does stuff that benefits God, and in return God is obligated to pay him by blessing his crops, family, etc. Job's sufferings have exposed that attitude, because he's reacted with anger when God withheld that "payment". But that attitude is wrong, and bordering on blasphemy - God and Job never had a business relationship of the sort Job is picturing. Of course they didn't - how could they? Who does Job think he is, that the omniscient, omnipotent God could actually gain something material from his obedience? It's at this point that God shows up, and explains just how omnipotent and omniscient he is - and Job then acknowledges that he was in the wrong, in the way that Elihu had pointed out. If this is what God's motives are meant to be, that puts the opening of the book in a new perspective. God, knowing that Job needs jolting out of his arrogance, starts going on about how well Job is doing in front of Satan. Satan then rises to the bait and suggests the bet, just as God planned; and then Satan shoots himself in the foot by prompting Job to repent and turn back to God.

[@mythosandlogos]

YES. Elihu puts Job in his place: “Dude, do you seriously think that you’re important enough to cause all this suffering by your sin or lack thereof?”

[@christopheschermesser5440]

"He argues that Job is mistaken about God being unjust, since that's fundamentally impossible" ... and yet, he just let one of his angels kill so many humans and torture an otherwise innocent man.

[@vondantalingting]

@@christopheschermesser5440 is satan really still an angel at that point? Last time I heard he was cast down from the heavens according to Christian literature.

[@grief6052]

Yeah god really got satan by slaughtering Job’s family what a slam dunk

[@bjjkickboxing7876]

@@christopheschermesser5440 The bible explains this multiple times. Satan is a tempter, yes, but all of man kinds sins are THEIR sins. A lot of times us humans blame God for wars and famine, without even looking at ourselves and realise that WE fight these wars and WE contribute to those same famines. We tend to turn away and blame the devine or the devil, while tgey dont even have to do anything really to "kill and torture innocents" because we do that on our own.

[@reillycurran8508]

Job: WHY OH GOD HAVE I BEEN FORSAKEN!?!? God, not wanting to admit he just screwed him as part of a bet: Ayo Krishna can I borrow that "unknowable and incomprehensible intentions of the Cosmos" routine you did with Arjuna for a sec?

[@mamtabajpai2025]

Krishna: ok but why

[@johnleopold9788]

God did not fail the bet because joe never rebuked God and did not fall in the hands of Satan.

[@jordinagel1184]

@@johnleopold9788 the OG never said God lost, only that Job was screwed over because God felt like doing a bet with Satan and as a result played with the lives of his believers just to prove a point. Zeus approves.

[@leestudios9948]

He didn't screw, he was making a point to Satan about how righteous Job was despite losing everything.

[@2MeterLP]

Imagine being one of the children or servants, being killed for a pointless bet.

[@xBris]

Bad things only happen to bad people. Wait. What?

[@totalynotcatherine]

The kids and servants probably all went to heaven immediately.

[@mrankitanks]

@@totalynotcatherine Even if they had sinned a lot?

[@kucimaka8092]

@@mrankitanks yes

[@JimmyDThing]

Don't think you understood the story at all.

[@gldni17]

So much...interesting interpretation here. I'd definitely say this feels like a reading more through the Christian lens than the Jewish lens. Mainly in the aspect of framing Satan as an evil trickster, which is very much a Christian reading of the text. Still a worthwhile story to understand the way in which Abrahamic faiths confront this idea of "why bad things happen to good people," but yeah, this story really begs for a deeper look all around. That having been said, I hope any aspiring students of myth or religion do use this as a neat jumping off point to really dig into the myth of Job, specifically because it's this kind of "one story with many interpretations" narrative, and a fairly short and dynamic one at that.

[@chris7263]

As a Christian I also felt like this was pretty flat and simple but I didn't even think about the Christian interpretation of Satan! That's right, I've read that he had a less evil role and was more like a, well, "devil's advocate"? Testing people to make them prove themselves one way or another? That's probably a bad description, sorry. I'd be very interested in knowing how you'd describe Satan's role here.

[@Sporkinator]

For a deeper look, perhaps read the actual book of Job.

[@yucol5661]

@@Sporkinator reading the actual text by yourself almost never helps with understanding wtf happened. Not everyone has that great a reading comprehension or patience

[@dariustwin]

@@Sporkinator The question there is, which version?

[@Sporkinator]

@@dariustwin I recommend KJV.

[@robertdascoli949]

God: "You can never understand my motivations" Job: " Satan already told me, he said you messed with me and killed my family literally to win a bet. A bet with actually no stakes. No one won or lost anything except for me."

[@firecult1]

And his family and his servants. The bandits did pretty good for themselves though

[@butterskywalker8785]

Satan kinda looking cute tho 0-0

[@Dreammaster695]

Satan didn’t tell him sh1t!!!

[@Dreammaster695]

Atleast god spoke to him Satan got his family killed and left and gave him nothing who really is the heartless one?

[@Ramschat]

Both. Obviously

[@breaka666]

pretty meta how the story itself is kind of a test of faith for a lotta people

[@rushalias8511]

That the thing. Its tests faith not just for Job but for all who here the story

[@arthurgeorge5474]

@@rushalias8511 that's the thing. It's a test of faith for not only Job, but also for all those who hear or have heard this "story/myth" **

[@SwitchFeathers]

Well the story is basically just saying "Hey, the being you worship might just decide to randomly torture you for literally no reason other than to test how faithful you are to him, even if you've done literally nothing wrong and have dedicated your life to worshipping said being already." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[@fluffskunk]

@@SwitchFeathers "Don't blame your abusers, kids! They're powerful, and that makes them right!"

[@Cecilia-ky3uw]

Killing others to test faith? sounds a bit wacky to me imagine if a ruler killed someone's family to test their loyalty you would call that ruler a tyrant wouldnt you

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

Man: Thanks god for good things in life Also Man: Can't blame god for bad things in life God: Histories greatest Lawyer, never lost a defamation case yet

[@tomer2144]

It's all a matter of perspective. If God owes me nothing and everything I have was given to me as a favor, I can't complain about what I don't have or what was taken back.

[@Pandor18]

@@tomer2144 If I give you a dollar you should thank me, but if I take back the coin and punch you in the face you shouldn't blame me , is just a matter of perspective

[@tomer2144]

@@Pandor18 That's because you didn't bring me my health and very life. If you only take back some of what you gave me, I still owe you. If a person believes God has given him/her EVERYTHING including life, health, family, etc. Then no matter what he/she loses, they are still in debt since they are still alive.

[@teogonzalez7957]

@@tomer2144 you’re in an abusive relationship with an imaginary person.

[@Jacob-ge1py]

The issue here is that you're judging things to be "good" and "bad" in life. God did not create "good" and "bad" life, God created life and life is perfect. You shouldn't thank God for the "good things" in life, you thank God for life, all of it together because they are inseparable and are both a perfect gift. Part of the story which this video leaves out is that the whole thing wasn't about winning a bet with Satan, God wanted Job to understand that he should not thank and praise God specifically for the good things, he should praise God no matter what. God used Satan as a means to an end of His own.

[@sandropazdg8106]

"I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move" - Satan, just before tricking God into allowing him to torture his best follower, getting its family and servants killed, having God's other followers question their faith, and walking away scot-free.

[@johnleopold9788]

God never gets tricked for he is perfect in every way

[@zjpdarkblaze]

@@johnleopold9788 he got tricked in that story. why is that? Lol

[@idk28751]

@@zjpdarkblaze in the bible, when satan said that if God took out Job's blessings, surely Job will blame and curse to the Lord, but God said that that would not be possible, and so satan did what he did in the bible, ofc saying to God on what he will do to Job, but nothing about Job being dead

[@zjpdarkblaze]

@@idk28751 people still died because of the bet

[@idk28751]

@@zjpdarkblaze true

[@mrsmuggiepuss0181]

Are we just gonna ignore the fact that god let a bunch of kids get crushed just to prove a point

[@rikuvakevainen6157]

How many people did god kill in the Bible?

[@sogghartha]

@@rikuvakevainen6157 way more than satan, that's for sure

[@rikuvakevainen6157]

@christopher snedeker even those who never heard of him? What happens to those who have never heard of the god after they die?

[@mrhappy623]

@@rikuvakevainen6157 they go to heaven. You only go to hell if you outright reject God, so if you didn’t know, then you get in to heaven.

[@rikuvakevainen6157]

@@mrhappy623 even when you have done sin in the eyes of god? Sorry if I am picking but I am interested to hear your thougts.

[@XaurielZ]

God's answer to Job always struck me as just the most incredible cop-out

[@MrValentine101]

God showing Job the vast expanses of the universe and saying "Could you really understand all of this?" when trying to justify a petty bet that puts him through immense suffering sounds like gaslighting... Just saying...

[@boomamathics2666]

“It’s not gaslighting your just crazy” -God

[@legoboy468]

“And in the end, they both got what they wanted” I wonder what satans goal was... just to hurt Job? Or to show what God is really like?

[@rohandanielisaac8107]

No more like trying to show the finger to God with any opportunity he can. If Job did fail like any human might, he would have walked out smug from heaven.

[@KremlinBase]

to show god that people only follow him out of their conviction to be loyal to the hand that feeds them, but if that hand were to be taken away they would curse him immediately and forget all the other things he’s done for them

[@carlosmedina1281]

To prove that humans only follow God for the things he gives and not out of true love for him. Job provides an excellent look into the Grand Cosmic conflict of Good vs Evil and that Job stayed faithful no matter what.

[@FrostTheHobidon]

satan want Job to turn against God, so satan can torture Job and burn in the enteral fire with him.

[@llamagenocide7428]

He got to keep his arms and legs

[@MariaVosa]

Job: You can't blame God for bad things happening to you God: Allows bad things happen to Job to prove a point Moral: You can't blame God for bad things happening to you Reader: Wait...?

[@LaceNWhisky]

Right?Not just that, but this all-powerful, all-loving god allows all of these horrible things to befall Job just to win a bet, tempted by Satan.

[@setiawanalexander9943]

The story act as a counter culture to jews believe where disasters only happened to the sinners.

[@Usagi393]

Not to mention God is all knowing. So he already knew that Satan knew about Job, knew Satan would make a bet, and knew Job wouldn’t blame him. So what was the point?

[@Ethan-cz8xq]

@@Usagi393 We don't know. That's the whole point of the book.

[@ramblingirishman3828]

​@@LaceNWhisky you completely missed the point of the story

[@Jebbtube]

"He doesn't understand why this has happened." Answer: God decided you needed to suffer so he could win a bet. Yay faith?

[@vincentrose8725]

Not needed to, could. He believed Job was strong enough.

[@eynchaglobus2694]

He slew all job's children though. But he give him new children so no harm done.

[@CarvaxIV]

He’ll see them in heaven later, once he is done with his test on Earth. Remember for the devout, death is not the end, but the beginning of something new.

[@eynchaglobus2694]

@@CarvaxIV God allowed satan to kill 10 people just to test their father, and this was just the opening gambit. They are counted among his other lost possessions. It's profoundly arbitrary. Btw, this story predates the concept of heaven, which does not exist in Judaism.

[@sidneyshaw9814]

A bit of an oversimplification.

[@moartems5076]

So we all need to remember, that "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." is decidedly a one way road. Just like in an abusive relationship, yeah!

[@erikapersons4328]

While I understand this is a brief summary of the book of Job, I do wish they had mentioned Elihu. Elihu was tagging along with the false comforters, and his speech from chapter 32-36 is incredible. He's the youngest among them, so he speaks last. Because of this, he's able to reason against both Job and the other three. I really recommend reading that passage. It's long, but it's worth it.

[@avonidas]

There's no real notion of an afterlife in Judaism. So, the author of the Book of Job viewed his family and servants as possessions to be restored, not people who were irrevocably hurt and killed just to prove a point. Let that sink in. Only one good thing came out of the Book of Job being written, and that's that maybe a tiny fraction *fewer* people throughout history had their misfortunes blamed on their character/sins.

[@ArkadiBolschek]

"If bad things happen to your neighbour, don't assume that he must have done something to deserve them. Maybe God just felt like being a jerk."

[@ikengaspirit3063]

This to me is an unreasonably cynical reading. Like fine, there isn't a concrete concept of an after life the same way as there is in Christianity but Sheol is still the Jewish concept of the older after life and I think the later one is instrumentality/fuzing into God. And everybody has a soul and their own journey in the Abrahamic religions, which yes can be affected by other people's choices but still ur own. In Christianity at least, that would mean they had come to the end of their journey and resurrecting people just to keep a family member happy isn't really on the table.

[@darththaurer]

"- hey Job, what happened to your kids? - Oh, forget them, they died. I have these cool new ones instead. and wait until you see my wife!"

[@notablegoat]

Jobs kids, who are perfectly good servants of god too: Wait why did we have to get killed

[@joshuahicks7798]

The point here is that being good doesn't mean bad things don't happen to you.

[@phoenixblueknight]

And that is how they ditched their beliefs and ran to a nicer family who don’t believe in a god that bets on the lives of others for silly reasons.

[@Blanklet]

God: but bro satan bet me. Oh what was the wager that was worth many lives that I claim to love? Bro think about the bragging rights! Ill hold this over satan for minutes.

[@crushermach3263]

Well, given that they were all also pious they all probably went to Heaven anyway, though one can never really know these things.

[@yavayen4796]

The actual story doesn't say they were blameless like Job was. In fact Job was concerned about their actions, hence the sacrifices. At any rate, God called them home to heaven.

[@LEGOMANIAC419]

Ahh, the Book of Job. The one text that makes or breaks you as a Christian.

[@ciriadeflora]

This one includes the incest, right? Or was that a different one?

[@LEGOMANIAC419]

@@ciriadeflora Nope. That would be Genesis.

[@Kami-ny5jo]

@@ciriadeflora wouldn't necessarily call that incest

[@winklgasse]

@@Kami-ny5jo isn't the bible litteraly claiming ALL of humanity decend from Adam, Eve and their three SONS? sounds pretty incest-y to me

[@vintheguy]

Or basically any of the other Abrahamic faiths

[@daniilpashuk6017]

This story always triggeres me. Why the hell, if god is all good or all mighty, does the big g agree to such a petty bet? Never set right with me

[@2MeterLP]

Seems like a pointless bet. And especially shitty for the children and servants

[@justawhim]

It’s likely an Angel specially Made to question him, if we go by a strict interpretation. But doesn’t change the fact god is willing to toy with a human’s life

[@adamvk5368]

Cause He is awesome! Hes so vast and overwhelming yet He choses to undergo to such petty things plus if he hadn't done that with Job people nowadays wouldnt know whats going on in their lifes (while christian) if bad things are happening, its all for a reason some people can understand others cant and unfortunately that leads to atheism kinda like how Jobs wife abandoned God and told Job to do the same

[@nelsondeleon5331]

As I understand the story was meant to demonstrate how the actions that affect our lives despite being terrible our beyond our understanding, and fit within a grander plan. It’s more of a moral story than something that actually happened

[@safe-keeper1042]

The good and kindly God is more of a modern interpretation. The God of the Bible, especially the OT, is often vengeful, spiteful, and power-hungry, to the point where he needlessly gets people killed just to demonstrate his strength (such as when he hardened the Pharaoh's heart so that he could kill all the firstborn children of Egypt).

[@MeMySkirtandI]

Ah yes, the "Where were you when I created the Universe?" defense. Only effective if the speaker actually created the universe.

[@Aspiringamoeba1997]

I’m fairly certain God attends a college of universe creators, and our universe is his long procrastinated, barely passable semester project.

[@andrerodney5586]

@@Aspiringamoeba1997 and earth was the only completed part lol

[@2MeterLP]

Seems more like a "Well lets see you make a better Universe" defense.

[@xBris]

I also like the "look at this complex thing. If you can't understand this, then why question anything at all?".

[@MeMySkirtandI]

@@xBris I think you can question, but you aren’t entitled to answers.

[@EyalBrown]

The part where the messengers came to tell the bad news is an incredibly iconic, quotable line in hebrew - עוד זה מדבר וזה בא; pron. roughly "od ze medaber ve-ze ba", meaning something like "before he finished the next one came. Just a favorite piece of hebrew text of mine

[@TombstonedM]

An all loving and all benevolent God kills an entire family just to win a bet.

[@GentTX]

I always wondered why Kyles parents on south park never told the ending of the story of the story of Job.

[@outlaw832005]

Which episode?

[@bilge677]

nice profile picture

[@zombielizard218]

@@outlaw832005 If I remember correctly, it's the one where Cartman randomly inherits a million dollars while Kyle gets sick.

[@outlaw832005]

@@zombielizard218 oh, THAT episode.

[@SCWKorsgaard]

That time God made a bet with the Devil to ruin a guys life, and threatened him with monsters when he dared ask why.

[@ingsnaut_7006]

Didn't threaten him, they're used by the author to represent the glory of God in two ways.

@@ingsnaut_7006 LMAO God!

[@ingsnaut_7006]

@ Ok?

[@ingsnaut_7006]

@hunter christensen Thank you! Finally someone who actually read the source.

[@jinjunliu2401]

@hunter christensen Can't fully blame them though, most people don't take the time to read the Bible and this is the way this story has been popularised outside Christian communities

[@stevenshar1233]

It's also interesting to note that in the original Hebrew lore of Job, Satan isn't the devil or even evil in that matter. The Sa-tan technically isn't even a name, it's a title of a position to question. Because in the Hebrew religion the devil doesn't exist. Even in the book of Job, The Sa-tan isn't sinister or evil, he's just doing his job that God has appointed him.

[@rikuvakevainen6157]

I read somewhere that when the final judgement comes, the god is the judge and the satan is the prosecutor who reminds us humans of our sins.

[@JohnDamascus]

The oldest copy is not in Hebrew its written in Greek

[@benjidoe7749]

I'm pretty sure that's not true, satan translates as "adversary" or "accuser" . The only other narrative where the word is used as a spiritual character is in Zechariah 3 where he is rebuked by God himself for accusing Joshua because God has paid for his sin. In the New Testament the Greek word appears to be identical Hebrew and its used to refer directly to the devil who fell from heaven.

[@woaddragon]

@@JohnDamascus no, the Torah, (where this story originate from) was naturally written in Hebrew.

[@woaddragon]

@@JohnDamascus as well as the original writings of the bible, as John. Luke, Mark, and the other disciples were ex-jews

[@Darkgun231]

The moral kinda falls flat when you think about it. It's fine to have faith in someone and not consider them to be evil if you have no proof of such, but if they actually are the cause of all your troubles for no reason other than, say, a childish bet, you're within your rights to hate said person for betraying you.

[@Jacob-ge1py]

Maybe if it was a person who had betrayed you but it's not, it's God and he is above judgement, that's the point

[@wistymations]

​@@Jacob-ge1pynobody is above judgement and this was a petty thing that got many people killed and tortured someone despite consistently being portrayed as loving all. It proves that at the end of the day even if this so called God loves you he is more than willing to sacrifice your entire life (except letting you die) just for a bet.

[@Jacob-ge1py]

​@@wistymations God is not anybody, you can't apply logic like that to the God of all things. He is definitively above judgment, that's the whole idea. Your life on Earth means nothing, upon death, you will know eternal bliss in heaven, it's a pretty small sacrifice for the betterment of mankind.

[@wistymations]

@@Jacob-ge1py for a deity people claim loves us all he clearly doesn't act like it. We can judge whoever or whatever we want. It doesn't matter if he is "above it all" I can still say that I judge him and his actions. May he strike me down now where I stand if its against him. But alas he won't. Therefore he isn't above judgement. We may judge his actions and apparent 'grand plan' he is above nothing but apparently the skies above. And I must say for a god who can apparently do no wrong he very happily bets lives and happiness of the creatures he loves on very petty things. If you want to discus god with me you cannot simply say "oh well he's above judgement" because that's ignoring the entire argument. Basically. If you want to discuss, let's. If you want to ignore this argument for your own beliefs, then I will no longer be responding here. Have a good day/night

[@wistymations]

@@Jacob-ge1py last thing to add as I forgot but how exactly was this man loosing everything a betterment for humanity? It was a childish bet and nothing more

[@zendoclone1]

Basically what this comes down to is god makes a bet with the devil in reference to job, and when job questions him on why this is happening, god says "I work in mysterious ways, you and I are not equals, I don't have to answer to you."

[@stephenferry3017]

You guys left out Elihu. This is a pretty surface level examination. Like, the Book of Job is an intricate literary work that really deserves more than one episode.

[@ionlymadethistoleavecoment1723]

Right?! How you going to leave out my man Elihu!

[@EmperorEva0001]

"Job has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle Broflovski

[@VodShod]

Logically speaking that does not disprove the existence of a god, that just proves if there is a god then he is a horrible monster.

[@lawman592]

Or He just created the cosmos and walked away leaving everything to run on its own.

[@nicksmith8293]

Or just really like transformers

[@Wisegirl6521]

@@nicksmith8293 that would mean that the world was not made by a sentient beings

[@chanbricks4461]

@@lawman592 Afk. God couldn't be bothered to make new updates anymore

[@Spoot1RHGL]

Kind of a jerk move on God's side to just give job so much misery only because he wanted to prove a point in a debt?

[@kloassie]

And god said: "Let there be light" And there _was_ light. And then god said: "Let your live get fuc*ed so I win a dumb bet" And there was ... an utter lame no-excuse-at-all!

[@temperededge]

Y'see? This is why modern Catholics mostly hand-wave the old testament. "Yes, it says that, but *that* part of the book's more a metaphor... or something...."

[@thomas8413]

Wasn't expecting an episode on Christian lore. Wow. EDIT: Holy crap this is the most likes and replies I've ever gotten

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

They have some on Sampson too.

[@thomas8413]

@@ShaunCKennedyAuthor Really? Cool

[@diegoandre8881]

Judeo/christian lore*

[@sneedmando186]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@viscountbp]

Tbh Job didn't expect to be part of lore too

[@cerridianempire1653]

The book of Job is the most messed up part of the Bible from Job losing his entire loved ones to God explaining to him about how hot the center of the Earth is and as a Catholic I can confirm

[@victorystar8586]

Why worship such a being that torture everything?

[@ElBandito]

"The strong did what they could and the weak suffered what they must." Pretty grim tale.

[@saahiliyer11]

God is a mobster.

[@tubanbodyslammer9125]

This is one of the stories that was key to me giving up on religion

[@paulbutkovich6103]

Sorry to hear that.

[@scotthannan8669]

Why would philosophy cause that?

[@tubanbodyslammer9125]

@@scotthannan8669 this is in the bible

[@xxandromeda]

Same! Such an questionable thing to do for a God who claims he is merciful.

[@warmachineuk]

I love that Job may not know God's plan even though it's told to the reader. Job is given no thanks, apology or explanation, just told not to ask why. The devoted can be tortured to win a bet, rather than Satan be told to get lost. Ancient people knew their gods were total dicks.

[@yavayen4796]

Well he is given some congrats if you will. God told him he did well to stay faithful and then also rewarded him two-fold what he suffered and then Job spends eternity in heaven, sooooo...

[@paulbutkovich6103]

I read more like Job is fundamentally incapable of understanding. How well can a finite human understand the infinite divine?

[@ArkadiBolschek]

@@paulbutkovich6103 Except the "infinite divine" is shown to be a dick within the very same story.

[@paulbutkovich6103]

@@ArkadiBolschek How so?

[@91Tmart]

That book was the reason why I questioned my faith as a young adult and is why I am an atheist now.

[@lilperidot8783]

"Job, you're like, so tiny, do you really think it matters if I allow Satan to torture you? 🙄"

[@iapetusmccool]

"Look at this awesome universe. Could you make one? Eh? What about giant monsters? No? Then shut up, and stop trying to second guess Me. I'm God, and I can do whatever the hell I want" - God, probably.

[@ArkadiBolschek]

"Dude what the f*ck" -Job, probably.

[@robertsalvia4406]

This is similar to the Confucius (Kong Qiu) teachings of how a "servant" (follower) should always believe in the leader and behave in a proper manner regardless of how poor the leader treats them.

[@waleedkhalid7486]

this version of God sounds a bit too similar to depictions of the gods of Greece. It goes to show that the monotheistic religions of today are influenced by their pagan predecessors in a way that isn't typically taught. While I am Muslim myself, I can still appreciate the historical and cultural influences that shaped my religion. It is unfortunate that so many others cannot do the same.

[@estergrant6713]

“wont blame god” “is literally gods doing”

[@christophersnedeker2065]

It was Satan's original idea.

[@estergrant6713]

@@christophersnedeker2065 did satan twist gods arm and force him to go for the idea? no, god willingly went along with an idea proposed by satan an entity of pure sin. thats even worse then really if god was just chatting it up with satan, the embodiment of all evil, and then satan goaded god into torturing one of his best followers (and killimg several bystanders) just to prove that job loves him? not a good look for a being who is supposed to be the embodiment of all that is good.

[@xxandromeda]

​@@christophersnedeker2065God was an accomplice to its execution.

[@robertaylor9218]

And this story is how you know that the god of the Bible is a villain.

[@weirdreportt]

Always have been. This is why I think Satan is right, though formally he was just one of the Evils, but lesser one compare to God. Regardless, all of these are just fictional characters created by men. It's fascinating how the "God" reflects the morality, culture, etc. of the author/creator of the said myth.

[@tsiagian6610]

When you realized that you are watching this animated biblical story on Extra Mythology, which means Extra Credits classify this as a myth Christians: **Confused Screaming**

[@DrMohGomaa]

I am a Muslim and I don't like this. Although the story of Job is vastly different in our faith, I don't like this light hearted way of depicting God

[@nelsondeleon5331]

Actually, this is seen as a moral story not something that happened, so many Christians besides the literalists understand that it’s not literal and just a myth.

[@shriyanv4407]

@@nelsondeleon5331 Like a parable for example

[@safe-keeper1042]

Of course they do. There's no more evidence this happened than, say, the stories about the Norse gods. If that offends anyone, maybe they should take a step back and think about why.

[@mriduljoshi]

Satan: God: Have you met my fav man. Satan: Wanna bet on him. God: All in. Job: But why??? God: You are not important.

[@TopsideCrisis346]

This was one of the first books of the Bible I studied after coming to the faith. It's still a favorite, and recommended reading. I appreciate the way you guys handled this one. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@sirxamner]

Is the original text different than what was shown ? Because what's on display here *looks like an exercise in gratuitous cruelty by god and satan. (No disrespect meant.) EDIT: changed 'is' into 'looks like' for accuracy

[@MarkyVigoroth]

The Behemoth and Leviathan are very cool-looking and distinctive!

[@christophersnedeker2065]

Usually they make them a mosasaur and a sauropod.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

I finally, after all these years, figured out Job’s sin. He has no neck and no arms.

[@tirzahroseroot]

Fun fact: my younger sister was named after one of the daughters of Job.

[@lichkingsvault4626]

As someone with a minor in biblical studies, I expected to go tear extra credit a new pooper. Instead I found one of the best versions of this story to teach kids. No kids version is perfect, or even good, but this was a lot better than I expected.

[@Dreammaster695]

Superbook cartoon isn’t bad either

[@HerrZenki]

Poor Job, he got turned into a human football just so God can win a bet

[@mythosandlogos]

Very nice and entertaining! (Who doesn’t love a cloud with a nose?) When I did a podcast on the Book of Job, I approached a Rabbi for help, and he explained that the Leviathan and Behemoth (the two beasts) have a deep symbolism themselves. I must second the commenter who brought up the lack of Elihu in this telling, but you’ve done a great job at briefly explaining the core of the story to an audience who might not have known it yet.

[@AsterBeCastin]

Unfriendly reminder that god has a wicked higher body count than the devil

[@willf2079]

Job: My family is dead, my money is gone, I’m sick as hell, and my friends keep making fun of me. God: That’s cool but have you ever tried DMT?

[@ferrousoxcide393]

The Irony of the story of Job, He is tested to not blame God for his misfortune. But all of his misfortune is put on him by god. God is literally an abusive spouse in this story.

[@km1dash6]

Moral of the story: children are completely replaceable.

[@warmachineuk]

Moral of the story: worshipping the Judean god may result in you randomly tortured for a bet.

[@warmachineuk]

Also, if you work for a Judean god worshipper, you may be killed as part of a divine bet.

[@jonahfalcon1970]

"But For Me, It Was Tuesday", Biblical Edition

[@MarkSiefert]

Job: “God, why are you doing this to me!!!” God: “Because I own you, b*tch, that’s why! I don’t have to explain anything to you! Now shut up and worship me... OR ELSE!” Job: (meekly): “Yes, sir” God: “Yes WHAT?” Job: “YES THE LORD, MY GOD, KING OF KINGS...” And thus, religious apologetics is born.

[@shoandutrieux9447]

I always hated the book of Job. For one god is all-powerful, knew how it was going to turn out yet chose to torture a man. He didn't even explain as to why he tortured Job, as saying: "I gambled with my accuser," would've surely destroyed Job's faith. It's a barbaric story with a horrible moral, it makes me glad to be an atheist. If you can defend a belief in something so abhorrent, you can defend everything and anything.

[@greenapple204]

Just imagine working hard every day and doing everything right just to have someone take everything and one from you to prove a point

[@Robert_McGarry_Poems]

So, basically don't question anything and just put up with whatever society throws at you and you will be rewarded with everything you always wanted. Or, just be a slave and riches will be yours... Why would we teach this to people? F-ed up to say the least.

[@GrayGriffonKnight]

I will just throw out there, that looking at this entirely through the lense of the mythological is perhaps a bit misleading for those trying to understand Christianitys underlying beliefs. To answer the question at the end, however, we can understand quite easily why bad things happen to good people. Bad things happen to ALL people. Why should good people get a free pass? How we react and respond to bad situations is what makes us either bad or good people. Sometimes tragedy strikes, but if we keep the faith then we will eventually receive a reward far greater than anything we can understand or imagine. That is the story of Job. (And is probably based off of a true story, but the version we have is very clearly a retelling, at the very least. Which is important to take into account as well)

[@ichliebekartoffelnja4637]

@MrNorthernSol True

[@alexanderclosson4729]

Or and stay with me here.Religion is a just a sad coping mechanism that hasnt made sense for centuries

[@silvanmoses9122]

RATHER WATCH the one from bible project

[@noahjohnson935]

@@alexanderclosson4729 our science theories are the same way. Humans can't understand or know everything. We just make guesses and stick with them to comfort ourselves.

[@sheepketchup9059]

So in the end all your actions are ultimately self-serving?

[@jonianderson8297]

All I can think of is the innocents caught between God and Satan. What did they do to deserve their fates? Why was God’s just plan to kill them horribly and viscously? Why do they become fodder for Job’s character development? Aren’t all humans loved and cherished by God equally? Why would God squander their lives?

[@Mr.Pallanza]

...this is probably why Garfield only complains about Mondays.

[@keraatkins7833]

Crazy side fact the two beasts in the story also inspired the cover monsters from Pokémon ruby and sapphire Groudon and kyogore. They was known in the Bible as the leviathan and the other is the behemoth. The leviathan is master tier beast of the sea and the behemoth is master tier beast of the land. Of course their skills and power are portrayed differently but the resemblance is uncanny.

[@Anglomachian]

So let me see if I have this straight. Satan just wonders into heaven... somehow. God then makes a bet with the devil (a little unfair given, you know, he's omniscient and all), then literally plays around with a bunch of people's lives, and then when someone has the audacity to question why it was done, god then tells him he's too stupid to comprehend that it was all over a bet. Remind me; who's the villain in this story?

[@TheNN]

The book of Job was basically 'The Killing Joke' before 'The Killing Joke'.

[@pointynoodle]

God: Wow you're great, lemme just let you lose all your belongings, chlidren, and watch you get tortured because I'm pretty confident about a bet Job: wtf dude God: I'm feeling so attacked right now how could you do this to me

[@philip8498]

Job: Why have you done all this horrible stuff to me? God: My goals are beyond your understanding

[@victorystar8586]

We just saw his goals. To win a bet against "satan".

[@TristanBanks]

So God fell down to Satan's level and decided to kill a bunch of servants and children to prove a point....

[@IloveF-CXandF-CFalconViper]

Yup. God is a crook indeed.

[@dennyshouse]

I just imagine the book of Job just happens over an afternoon

[@warmachineuk]

This does show how relationships have changed since ancient times. Soldiers are expected to fight at the government's behest but get told how the war helps the country and can retire from service with medals and a pension.

[@thedukeofchutney468]

I love just how smug God looks when the Satan tries to make a bet with him.

[@delphynenull2136]

It’s important to note (especially for Job’s tale) that Satan is not the same person as Lucifer in biblical canon. Lucifer is the devil, the rebellious angel struck down from heaven as punishment for questioning God’s tyranny. Satan is something more like the “Loyal Opposition,” an angel whose role is to test the followers of God and see whether their faith is strong or merely a fairweather attitude. Due to Lucifer’s (entirely reasonable) desire to turn humanity from their worship of God, the two are often syncretized but it’s ultimately inaccurate - a pop culture myth, not an actual facet of Abrahamic mythology. Edit: ack, i forgot the bit about why this matters - in the book of Job, Satan is explicitly working at God’s behest, as the actual Satan always does, because God wishes to test Job’s faith. He doesn’t deceive God into making one of his favorites suffer, he very specifically only acts because God wants to see the extent of Job’s devotion.

[@noahjohnson935]

Well, Lucifer didn't want to turn humanity away from God because he wanted to free humanity. He rebelled because he wanted equal worship and praise.

[@delphynenull2136]

@@noahjohnson935 debatable at best, there’s also mention in at least one translation that Lucifer and his rebellion wanted to be gendered so as to be with humans, and Milton provides yet a third possibility in Lucifer’s supposed jealousy of God’s favoritism of Jesus and/or Humanity.

[@gamelandmaster3680]

So this is where we get the saying, “I giveth and I taketh away.”

[@tomer2144]

Some say that he didn't fully sin, but the habit of partying without caution and then sacrificing in case someone had sinned is what allowed Satan (the accuser in Hebrew) to say what he said. Judaism says that there isn't such a thing as an evil angel called Satan. A person who sins creates himself an accusation above while a person who does a good thing creates himself an "advocate" or a "defender". Each of these accusations is referred to as a "satan" and is allegedly speaking to God (while actually, God makes all of his decisions by himself). It's just like saying "the picture says..." - of course the picture doesn't really talk.

[@minkrobeII]

The most challenging story in the Bible, for years it made me side with the devil. But after much time passed and consequential maturity, I accept the fact that being on the side of God is the most mathematically sound and wise way to move in any and all situations

[@karolinamikesova]

This story just proves that god is not the sharpest being in this world.

[@danieldaye3631]

As a Christian, I would like to point out that this story is, in my view, a metaphor for how life won’t always be easy for worshipers but faith in God will allow you reap benefits at the end. I think most people perceive God as this force of unwavering good who’s only mission is to love humanity and bless them endlessly. This is obviously NOT what’s in the Bible, and even famous tales like the Flood will tell you as much. God is just and merciful, but he is not there to simply reward humans.

[@justawhim]

Not just just a merciful Sometimes wrathful and warmongering

[@aidanquiett668]

The key words there are just and merciful. Merciful doesnt mean he ignores his just nature and wont punish those who have wronged him, and just also doesnt mean being good will give you rewards immediately, just that they will come one day

[@TheScotsman843]

Well put my friend.

[@bobsmith7066]

@@justawhim Wrathful, yes. Warmongering, no.

[@ragoth6207]

People always seem to think that they'll get rewarded for whatever, even if they're a total jackass, the story of job has been quoted to me by people who believe that the pandemic will take those who don't have enough conviction in God. And that's why I appreciate your point of view the most here, cuz Job was an exception to the rule.

[@thefoxoflaurels3437]

Femboy!Lucifer is both biblically accurate and fabulous

[@tobybartels8426]

Biblically accurate indeed, since there is no physical description of Satan in the Bible, and also no mention of Lucifer as a supernatural being (identified with Satan or not). So how could any depiction be inaccurate?

[@lahma69]

Props on telling this Biblical story with accuracy and respect when it would have been very easy to toss in a very healthy dose of sarcasm and skepticism. Great work!

[@a.h.tvideomapping4293]

The Whale arc is my favourite

[@noahjohnson935]

Wrong spin off. No one is sure where this fits in the timeline. The Whale Arc is parallel to the Two Kingdoms arcs

[@Tomartyr]

My favourite Lovecraftian series.

[@vleessjuu]

"He will not blame God" That's nice and all, except that God is literally the cause of his suffering by agreeing to that bet.

[@BergsArt]

It's not really blame, more like cursing God's name.

[@paulbutkovich6103]

I would personally blame the person causing the suffering.

[@sonictimm]

@@BergsArt Then you would blame Satan. Like us, God gave Satan a choice to love him or not. It's not a meaningless choice. If God prevented those who hate him from hurting him or hurting those he loves, or if there was nobody who really needed our help, then we wouldn't really have any meaningful choices at all. Just like in video games, your choices don't matter unless they have consequences. But life isn't a game, so all your choices do affect those around you in very real ways.

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

Job: I do not understand any of what you just showed me. God: Exactly. Now hush and know that I love you.

[@raptorjesues1445]

Job: that is total horseshit God: *opens a can of eldrich horror* Job:welp, guess you were right after all

[@torbjornlekberg7756]

Like a parent who beats his child senselessly because of a debt with his co-worker. Then answering the childs confused, tearfilled stare with the excuse "I know alot of things you dont, so shut up and have a lolipop."

[@darter9000]

I recall hearing that this might’ve been part of a debate among Rabbis and this story has been created to illustrate some part of that debate *shrugs?

[@nknight5072]

The reason there is some debate on this story is because of the metaphors

[@gentlemandemon]

I've always heard interpretations of this story as a parable. Kind of a messed up parable with a bad message, but a parable nonetheless.

[@Valery0p5]

Most of the book is Job's "friends" blaming him for his destiny, since he MUST have been in the wrong to be met with such a terrible fate (and Job trying to defend himself). This sentiment is still present in our culture in some way sadly... So yeah...

[@yaakovgrunsfeld]

@@gentlemandemon the vast majority of the book of Job is the arguement and refutation which delves into all sorts of philosophical matters. The rest is just a set up to talk about those things and the "happy ending" (the rabbis of the talmud were of the opinion that Job failed and only got his stuff back so that he wouldn't have any merits left for the world to come)

[@mjbull5156]

Job seems to be an extended version of a parable similar to those attributed to Jesus in the Gospels.

[@Abshir1it1is]

Um, but I _do_ know the fabric of god's plans and why sometimes bad things happen to good people. You _just told me_ why bad things happen to good people. And, like, it's a horribly abusive reason?