The Bowline is not recommended

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Please contribute to the discussion by leaving a comment. Why the bowline is not recommended and how to tie the better angler's knot. There is no better knot for small stuff.

[@kyrg]

I'll have to assume since you mention an anglers knot you are referring to fishing, It's not clear since your video seems to start in the middle of a conversation. Pretty weak arguments supporting your contentions against the bowline in general. In 40 years of fishing I've never met anyone who uses a bowline to connect to a leader. A bowline is meant to be easy to untie. After tying the bowline use the running end, and tie an overhand safety around the rope it lies next to secures it there is any doubt it about it coming undone. Coil? a round turn is the correct term for a rope running 360 degrees around an object. For the use you describe, a double figure of eight is faster to tie, stronger and doesn't have a tail extending at a right angle waiting to snag your tippet.

[@timhyatt9185]

another point is a bowline won't snug tighter under strain...an anglers loop could be snugged tighter if the line is slippery, a bowline will not ever slip smaller...you have to work it down to a smaller loop if that is what you are needing. the whole point of a bowline, is it's a "fixed" loop that even after significant strain has been put on it, can still be easily undone and can be tied at virtually any point on the line, making it easy to size the loop appropriately. The figure-8 does much of the same, though becomes unweildy if you need a very large loop. the alternative shown here, it seems would have similar problems trying to tie a loop large enough to use as a rescue line, or similar situation when you need a large loop in a hurry.....

[@gerlagerweij]

Plus, he says the tail end shouldn' t be in the loop. Then why did he tie the knot that way? He could' ve just tied it with the tail end sticking out to (in this case) the left.

[@paddelkul]

Rida lätt

[@roncraig007]

The bowline MUST have the bitter end INSIDE the loop. If it were tied otherwise, it would not be a proper bowline, and would pull loose.

[@First_Class_Amateur]

Kryg, You are the only one who realized what was going on here! This video is based off the section of the Ashley book of knots in reference to occupations and the fisherman. On top of that, you shared solid knowledge on terminology and even provided a better alternative knot. As a thank you for having the best comment I would like to send you a Dynamic Duo from my shop, awesomeforsale.com/dynamic-duo/ . Just send me a message on where to send it to. Brent

[@davidcook2167]

Don't underestimate the bowline as it one of the essential knots for sailing. It works with all types of rope and is very stable once it has been under tension. The big advantage is that no matter how tight the knot is you can open it by "breaking the back" to release the knot. The criticisms in this video are purely cosmetic and I would trust my safety with the bowline.

[@JustinCglass]

David Cook I've put my life on the bowline many times over and still will One of my go to knots for all sorts of things

[@bryanbarnett2767]

You nailed it with the "easy to untie after loading" that is one of the main benefits to the bowline

[@bikerguitardude]

I fully agree with these replies. It's critical with wet hemp rope to have that ease to untie. Also Mrballeng is incorrect about the dead end having to be inside of your loop. The knot can be tied with it on the inside or outside of the loop depending on which direction the "bunny goes under the log or around the tree [live end]".

[@simonparker4992]

I think a round turn bowline is much better than a bowline. It's a little more fiddly to tie but more secure and doesn't jam. I've had guy ropes on tents tied with bowlines that came undone.

[@jblack1988]

The "tree" is the live or "load" end. The bitter is the working end.

[@marshallclegg8838]

Convenient that he mentions one line from the Ashley Book of Knots, but fails to mention that the book states "the Anglers Loop has the best lead of any loop and is one of the best single loops for the end of small lines such as fishline, twine, etc... But as it jams, it is not suitable for rope." pg 187 - 1017.

[@jakemccoy]

Yeah, if you are out there cutting rope because your cool-looking knot jammed, then that is a huge fail.

[@jaimemanerodelpino634]

A good knot is one that is hard to accidentally undo itself, but easy to purposely undo. Still a very convenient knot to learn even still prone to jam. Thank you for sharing that important detail 😊 Sorry for my English

[@KM7462]

I been doing tree work for 35 years, doing all kinds of rigging and pulling, trucks ,heavy equipment etc. Bowline makes up for 85% of my knots and in all those years I never had one I couldn't get out

[@andrewb7622]

In the 25 yrs I've been relying on Bowlines I've never ever had one slip

[@ericlarue6434]

I've been climbing tree's for 31 years. Have been using the bowline and running bowline all that time. You can put a truck on a rope with a bowline and still untie rope

[@yunggolem4687]

That's not the issue, the issue is the bowline falls apart when it's not under tension. Bowline is notoriously easy to deconstruct and due to the way it's constructed (if constructed properly, not cowboy style or as a running bowline which are common issues for novices) it can't slip from tension applied from the loop or the long end, only from the tail. You may have noticed in your tree work that every time you tie a bowline you also have to tie a stopper knot, at least that's how all the climbing arborists I've seen are taught. This is because if you ever released tension from the bowline, such as by stepping on a branch, it has a high chance of undoing itself... then you go to put tension back on it and boom it slips out (but the stopper knot stops this from happening). Personally I just tie an alpine butterfly near the end of my rope if I'm using the bowline as a static loop rather than trying to tie a bowline around something. This knot doesn't undo itself once it's been properly dressed and it can't slip from the tail, line, or either leg of the loop. It doesn't technically need a stopper knot in the tail but I usually tie one anyway just for extra safety.

[@mperalta13]

This guy!

[@markm8188]

My fav is a zeppelin loop. Not as easy to tie, but very secure, easy to untie, and the tail is outside

[@johanandersson8464]

"The Angler's Loop has the best lead of any loop and is one of the best of single loops for the ends of small lines such as fishline, twine, etc. But as it jams, it is not suitable for rope." -- The Ashley Book of Knots.

[@adamreel5480]

Johan Andersson he played himself

[@iShionSinX]

You can say he got himself... tied. AW YEEEEEAAAH

[@corkcamden9878]

No better reference than Ashley.

[@JoelSzymczyk]

@@corkcamden9878 for fishing lines and applications, there are many better references.... fishing line technology has advanced immeasurably since Ashley was around. Many standard knots are completely useless with today's lines.

[@brettknoss486]

What about a Honda knot?

[@gregglockhart9551]

The bowline has actually been referred to as,”the King of knots.” Can’t be all that bad. The Queen of knots, according to Geoffrey Budworth,is the Alpine butterfly. There are so many wonderful knots. I’m extremely thankful to all the knot users and designers throughout history that have left us a treasure trove of wonders to share and love!

[@kevinwiens4804]

So what???.. it is "OLD" and obsolete time for an "upgrade". I agree I’m extremely thankful to all the knot users and designers throughout history that have left us a treasure trove of wonderful knots to share and love but we would never, Have gotten all of those great knots unless someone had not dared to try creating NEW knots...amen Gregg Lockhart.

[@gregglockhart9551]

@@kevinwiens4804 any suggestions?

[@kevinwiens4804]

@@gregglockhart9551 There's nothing wrong with the bowline for hauling cargo up and down in and out of ships, or for "rescue" operations, but it is comparing apples with oranges in this comparison. Thanks to First Class Amateur to be willing to think outside the box. and to criticize the "Holy Grail" I do not care a whit about Ashley's Book of knots...this is refreshing to see someone challenge the "status quo"...btw some people still believe the earth is "FLAT" and that you if you sail toward the horizon you fall over the edge!! Sorry if I became a little "miffed" by all of the haters. As a "fishing leader": the "anglers" loop or perfection loop is much better than the Bowline. For tippets and flies on the terminal end of fly line the angler's loop gives a better more direct pull while staying untangled. It is also better when fly fishing because it has a much better "action" and doesn't have the "unnatural riffle" created by the tag end inside the loop of the bowline. Plus they are both "fixed" loops so that they do not tighten down and have to be cut off. I will say in that regarding the bowline is easier to undo but when I am fishing it's a total waste of time worrying about untying knots Just cut it off and Get back to fishing! Get Er Done!... for all of it's advantages I will always prefer the "perfection loop" over the bowline...when fishing

[@hummesse]

Agreed! Different knots for different things. Bowline is great, as long as there is tension on it. An untensioned bowline can easily come undone if lying around and being ruffled - especially in stiff synthetic rope e.g. for securing and eye to a halyard on a modern boat. Since the halyard is seldomly untied a scaffold knot or the related halyard knot can be used instead. For climbing you might want to use figure of eight loop or secure the tail of the bowline with a double fisherman in the loop. Also bowlines are always easy to untie. Anglers loop is a nightmare to untie. Pretty knot though. Bowlines absolutely can not take pull from different directions in the loop if the standing end is not tight. It will spill and fail. For that use alpine butterfly knot (really for almost anything with complicated load patterns). A bowline cannot be untied if under tension, which is a problem in some situations. For that a double roundturn with a clove hitch around the standing end is good (not the related anchor hitch, which is prone to jamming). That also leads to my personal rule to never have a bowline in both ends of anything. If it becomes tight it can not be undone. Bowlines are Post Eye Tieable. Anglers are not.

[@geoninja8971]

@@kevinwiens4804 Sailors of olde had little else to do but fiddle with ropes, if there was truly a better, more efficient knot for the purpose, they would have found it centuries ago, I'll stick with the bowline for now.... maybe with a yosemite tie-off.

[@luisgerena6649]

We've used the bowline knot to pull and hoist multi ton equipment at work for years. It's a reliable knot that ties easily on any size rope and comes apart just as easily. We've never had it so much as slip under the worst of circumstances.

[@hobbyoftheday4017]

Luis F Gerena couldn't agree more, the bowline is proven at work every day. I've used it in utility electrical and cell tower work, both applications require a knot that is 100% reliable and easy to untie

[@JustinCglass]

Luis F Gerena I've had the bowline break on a load before. It cut itself due to the sinching pressures that were never relieved Word of advice to those who may be new to rigging: be sure to untie your knots between riggings

[@577buttfan]

Jc Cj I've been using the bowline for 30 years doing tree work super heavy giant sticks it never comes apart would trust my life with it kickass knot for sure.

[@bradeymandsager4319]

Enjoying The Sun 577-Jersey Customs do you really think I could trust my life with this knot? I'm trying to find a knot to tie on a grapple hook to climb trees and I don't want to die

[@peterbradley9104]

For personal safety you should consider a "proper climbing knot" such as the retraced figure of eight

[@tomslawson7447]

When I was a boy, my Dad (an old Navy man) told me "If you never learn any other knot, learn the bowline." He was correct.

[@geoninja8971]

Years ago, I was a young Midshipman in the RAN..... I remember a very senior Warrant Officer teaching us the same, and I still remember how to tie it to this day.

[@user-zx8du3ik2j]

commercial diver here, the same was taught to us and I have used it and thereby tested it to its absolute limits without disappointment.

[@justinluddington8923]

Well this is just silly. The bowline is a classic and must-know knot that's been relied on forever. Perhaps in some narrow applications this angler's loop is better, but you make it seem superior in every sense, which it clearly is not: 1. Bowline doesn't jam as easily and can be readily untied 2. Bowline can be tied one-handed 3. Bowline can be tied around a standing object whose ends you can't put a loop over Etc., etc., etc.

[@JosephHHHo]

This knot was demonstrated being tied around a post at the end. Looks like the easiest way to tie it as well. The more knots I can learn, the better.

[@bakdraft6578]

We at the afire stopped using the bowlin bcuz unsafe for life rescue. We use figure 8 for most

[@yuriizahorenko1657]

@@bakdraft6578 Again was it due to mistakes when you tie a bowline? But I agree regarding 8-knot - reliable.

[@azap12]

figure 9 is much easier to untie than 8 and it is as strong.

[@dylanmaloney94]

He also said the 1st issue with bowlines is the tail end is inside the loop. Well just loop up, around and back down the opposite way...boom tail end is on the outside...

[@fckmunch]

The bowline is a wee marvel of a knot! I was a trawler fisherman in the Irish sea and around the west coast of Scotland for years. Never in my life have I came across a problem with a bowline. Easy knot, never comes undone, super quick to tie in a hurry and always releases super easy. That's the point of it. Also simple to tie from any direction. It a grand knot!

[@BobLinton]

Poor guy. Some one needs to say something thing nice. Your red rope is very pretty!

[@MegaOzzy28]

Yeah the bowline knot is the best knot in the world!!!!

[@Billhumphreys3370]

The classic bowline was used to form a nonslip loop in a bow string (as in bow and arrows) to attach the bowstring to a notch at the end of a bow. It is easy to tie and undo, and is secure under tension. Note: under tension. It consists of a bend (a fold like a bobby pin) at the working end, and a round turn locking the rope to the bend. It is similar to a sheet bend in that it also has a bend as part of the structure. A sheet bend is also very secure under tension, but the bend in the bowline is the weak part of the design, because if loose and subject to movement the bend can slide forward through the knot and can come undone. This is easy to demonstrate in the bowline, the sheet bend, and the reef knot (which is formed with two bends linked together). This weakness of the bowline's bend is what the article is about, and is a valid argument against using a bowline if there is no constant tension. I have seen a bowline securing a dinghy come undone because the line was not under tension, and the boat bobbing around. The many secure variations of the bowline are mods made to form two round turns locked together, eliminating the bend. I hope that this explains the bowline knot's inherent weakness if not under tension. 3

[@jack002tuber]

There are a few secure type bowline mods that are easy to tie and untie that work well. I'm getting into knots myself

[@5orgen51]

I think it's the cowboy that is more likely to come undone in those cases

[@MeyersCTR]

Nice knot, but you must know it's sacrilege to mess with the bowline.

[@wilfdarr]

The Bowline has killed too many people. We gave it far more than it's fair shot!

[@dirtroad4229]

@@wilfdarr in what sort of situation does one rely on a bowline for their life?

[@wilfdarr]

@@dirtroad4229 10 years ago it was common practice to tie in to a harness or bosun's chair and it was still the knot in the book for rescue work when I was paid on call 6 years ago, though our chief would have hung us from the hose tower if he caught us using it as such! All of these are life safety applications for which the Bowline is not fit.

[@jeffclarkofclarklesparkle3103]

Kinda what i came to say more or less 😂🤣😂

[@jeffclarkofclarklesparkle3103]

All i know is when i tie a line with a truckers hitch on one tree and a bowline with a toggle on the other tree, it makes for not only a great ridgeline, but a much faster take down, split seconds compared to anything else 😁

[@jonathanreynolds2227]

This is also called a Perfection Loop. It's handy in fishing to make a permanent loop end in monofil (e.g. to attach a leader to a flyline), especially because the loop lies neatly in line. However, the end sticks out and must be trimmed flush; and you can never untie the knot. For all the reasons already rehearsed by others, the bowline is an irreplaceable knot for most other purposes.

[@borincod]

it is Flying bowline, not a Perfection loop. There is tiny difference in tying but a big difference in topology

[@LaddSpencer]

He's saying the 2nd knot is the Perfection Loop (ABOK # 1017).

[@gilsteiner]

There are ways to make the Bowline more secure. I personally like the Yosemite tie off and then there's the double bowline and the water bowline. The Yosemite tie off also takes the working end out of the loop.

[@OldWhitebelly]

Odd that he cites Ashley to support his claim, as Ashley mentions that the angler's knot is not very good with rope. I'm sticking with bowline for cases when it is best, and angler's knot when it's better. He's comparing apples and orangutans.

[@jacksbackable]

OldWhitebelly 🤣

[@kevinwiens4804]

He is talking about using the "perfection loop" in monofilament...not rope.

[@lawsonsimong]

Love the Orangutan reference

[@mrjsorr]

A bowline can be tied so that the short end is on the outside of the loop. It's a versatile, useful and important knot.

[@jeffreylebowski4927]

Exactly what the hell is he tieing it with the lose end inside of the loop for? makes no sense.

[@teddyruxpin3811]

yes, that's called a dutch bowline

[@teddyruxpin3811]

@@jeffreylebowski4927 that's just how a classic bowline is tied. a dutch bowline is where the tai is outside the loop. but i agree, i prefer the dutch bowline too.

[@dlbutler]

@@teddyruxpin3811 Also called a 'cowboy bowline': kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGiWhn2ma8aIaq8

[@pietfonteyn1397]

The original bowline is documentated in paintings, books in old cultures from Arabia, Egypt, Greece and all over Europe. It is now often called Dutch bowline but that knot exist for centuries earlier. I do not understand why American and English people reject this original bowline.

[@Shkunk1]

I've been a tree trimmer for over 30 years. The bowline and running bowline are some of our most utilised knots and are completely reliable. That being said, the anglers knot looks pretty cool...a good knot to add to my inventory. Good video.

[@surfer8018]

2 types of bowline, 1 with working end outside loop and the other with working end inside loop. I work on boats alot and also own an 19' boat and bowline is my go to knot. Can easily untie after putting alot of force even if it cinches tight. Sometimes after years underwater we are still able to untie a bowline knotted rope.

[@HoltKieren]

Nonsense. The bowline is stable and even after huge loads can be untied easily. As for your Angler's loop: "It is quite secure but it jams badly and is not suitable if the knot will need to be untied." - wikipedia

[@Ulxaaf]

Anglers loop is more secure.

[@joestevenson5568]

@@Ulxaaf Only in use cases where you shouldn't use a bowline anyway.

[@lt.e.a.sewell6555]

USNA class of 93. 8 years in the US Navy. I use the Bowline religiously. Never heard about this knot. But I appreciate the time you took to post it. I love ❤️ knot knowledge. I will try your knot and compare it to the Bowline. Better to know many knots 🪢 and not need ‘em all then to assume we know enough and close our minds 😆

[@NoNonsenseKnowHow]

wow! you clearly don't have a lot of field experience if you don't like the bowline

[@ianmoone2359]

Indeed, the beauty of the bowline is that if you fall or get knocked into the water, and one arm is incapacitated, you can still tie a bowline around your chest for recovery with one hand!

[@claytonalexander7358]

Sailors stand for like everything

[@casullarms1]

Brother you said a mouthful.

[@TubeyLube]

The bowline for me. Why, you ask? A good knot (or bend) has three characteristics: 1 - It's easy to tie (If it's hard to tie, you'll forget how to do it) 2 - It's easy to untie (if you can't its back after using it, your line is ruined) 3 - It does its job

[@ArmaliteTreeGuy]

Im a climber so i use the bowline with the Yosemite finish. Works great

[@harveytudor1230]

Is that like the ‘Edwards’ finish? Kinda looks like a neat figure of 8....almost

[@mediaguardian]

You don't just say something is not recommended. They both have their uses. For example, the bowline and its cousin, the sheet bend, are extremely strong knots. They won't slip, come loose, or jam but can be easily untied when under strain and when wet. This is why they are the most important knots in seamanship. The angler's knot is also a strong knot but it is difficult to untie whether under strain or not. It's also the best knot for tying loops in fishing line, hence its name.

[@kevinwiens4804]

meadiaguardian: Ahhh you have missed the fact that he is actually a very wise in using that statement, the "wisdom" here is that by saying that the Bowline is not recommended you get 10,000 "crotchety "OLD FARTS" to comment and disagree with you ..(I totally agree with you that, "Each knot has a proper use both have their proper and better uses in that sir you are absolutely "correct".

[@briangentry3118]

The "perfection loop" or angler's loop is a very pretty knot. It's quite symmetrical and pleasing to the eye. I practiced tying it for quite a while and got good at it. But then I decided to test it for regular rope type tasks: Not tying to fishing lures. Real world rope stuff. So I loaded up some paracord by pulling really hard and putting my body weight into it some. I tested the bowline, the perfection loop, and the zeppelin loop. Results: Zeppelin loop was easiest to untie. Almost unbelievable. Bowline was next easiest, but required some fingernails to get it loose. The perfection loop (angler's loop) was VERY hard to untie. I had to use pliers to get it loose. The perfection loop is good for some things. Doesn't slip, looks great, pulls straight from the middle. But for heavy loads it's bad. It's also VERY hard to tie around an object. It can be done for sure. But a bowline is SO much easier. The Zeppelin loop is harder to tie than the bowline but isn't any harder to tie around an object as it is in free air. I'm pretty much forgetting the perfection loop. It doesn't have a use in my toolbox of knots. Learn the Zeppelin loop instead. Or maybe the Double Dragon, which is just as pretty as the perfection loop, but much easier to untie.

[@racko6ix]

Hmmm, you found the bowline a tad picky to untie easily? Did you try pushing into the knot with the mainline above?

[@briangentry3118]

@@racko6ix I wrote the above comment 4 years ago. I can't remember the exact details of my test. The bowline did come apart with my hands and fingernails. So human power only. For the perfection loop I had to use pliers. At one point I was just going to cut it off, but I persisted and got it untied. These days I would not use an end loop knot at all for a heavy load. I would use a hitch instead, as they are designed for the task and are easiest to untie. In myy most recent real world test which involved a Jeep and a downed tree, I used a backhand hitch. It took about 10 seconds for me to loosen the first loop and then it came apart easily. This after being loaded by a Jeep which pulled the rope guitar string tight.

[@kellylybbert8677]

Thank you. This is a new knot to me. I appreciate how carefully you demonstrated and explained how to tie it. This knot has its own applications where it would definitely be a better choice.

[@ChristnThms]

From sailing to tree work to load rigging to mountain climbing, the bowline is one of the most essential knots. For speed, for safety, for jam free, it's a foundation. Toss a double overhand and a figure eight into your repertoire, and an alpine butterfly if you feel fancy, and you're good to go. Never needed this one. Now that I've seen it, I still don't.

[@futureboy7653]

I recall one of the main benefits to the bowline being that in emergency climbing situations you can tie it around yourself one-handed while hanging from the standing end with your other hand, thereby creating a secure loop from which you can then hang safely. Can this be done with the angler's knot?

[@kenbrown2808]

maybe you can. I don't have that kind of grip strength any more.

[@PhillipBicknell]

From bitter experience - when you attach the fore-sail sheet with a bowline, make sure there's a long tail-end. Otherwise it works loose whilst it's the lazy sheet and then pulls through when you tack. Being hove-to in confused sea gave the yacht a very unsettling motion - I won the prize for colour and noise, but not quantity!

[@jarodmorris611]

This person fails to understand that knots have different purposes. Not every knot is a fishing knot. Not every knot should be used for rock climbing. You have to know enough knots to be able to use the right knot in the right situation otherwise, you're going to screw something up. Bad explanation.

[@MrGlk]

Exactly, this know is useless if the item it is tied to is tightening it. It is not safe for quick release is distressed situations.

[@barrydaniel1346]

Jarod Morris òoo8 to

[@bradeymandsager4319]

Do you know the right knot to tie a rope to a grapple hook it has a loop on the bottom for tieing rope and I need a Knot to trust with my life

[@jarodmorris611]

I've never used a grapple hook and even if I did, I wouldn't try to explain a knot on a KZbin comment that you'd risk your life using.

[@JosephHHHo]

@@bradeymandsager4319 I there are lots of knots I have and would trust my life to but I wouldn't trust a grappling hook to hang my laundry.

[@stillwater62]

This guy truly is a " First Class Amateur " and is giving advice that may get someone killed through his confusing excuse of why not to use a knot that has proven it`s self for decades as a very reliable knot.

[@larrywiniarski1746]

Well, the tail doesn't have to end up in the loop. It can easily be tied so it ends up outside. Silly complaint in my opinion

[@brerrabbit4265]

Those knots serve two entirely different purposes, A bowline is usually used in quick rescue situations and is quickly adjustable, which I have never had slip out. The other knot is a fishing knot. One does not replace the other.

[@anasmahmoud5428]

U have to mention that angler's loop jams badly and the bowlin is non-jaming... Each one has its own use

[@muhammadnaimmohdnasi]

absolutely true

[@OldWhitebelly]

"Each one has its own use" BINGO.

[@pjdenzer]

instead of laying the working end in between the two coils lay a bight in between then you have a slipped anglers loop pull on the tail and the knot releases

[@kevinwiens4804]

You missed the point in this video , Jams badly when fishing? Cut it off and start a new one in monofilament? {That's why it is called the "angler's" Loop..} Practice make "PERFECT" the perfection loop wins for fishing!

[@danielluna7648]

Thank you. I understand the arguments of others that it depends on what you are going to be using the knot for. Fishing, sailing, and bushcraft all have different uses for different knots, but it was nice to see a demonstration of this tied around an object. Well done.

[@timothyarmstrong5987]

Both knots are good to a point. Our team had the task of loading several Amsteel Dyneema ropes to extreem. We found the bowline unsuitable due to friction which caused the fibers to heat and burn, one of our team had experience with the perfection knot and suggested it. It definitely worked no friction or heat degradation. Perfection knot better at extreme loads.

[@user-zx8du3ik2j]

interesting, as a diver we use the bowline like a verse from the bible and I have personally seen rope pushed beyond its limits with the knot never budging, off course the presence of water and particular rope plays a massive role, but what Im curious about is why you dont use a figure 8 knot in the case you referred above? I`d be super interested in hearing if you did or if not, why not and how it performed.

[@timothyarmstrong5987]

@user-zx8du3ik2j Yes, I'm also a sailor and use the bowline mostly while docking when cleats are not available or not trustworthy. Back to this case of extreem load. The 1n line needed to be loaded in order to reduce its diameter to 7/8. Apparently, these lines will shrink and stay that way once they have been loaded. Figure 8 was considered, but it used too much line. Our first thought was the bowline, but it began to slip and burn. The perfection knot in this case held . And did not use as much line as a figure 8

[@MadMax-bq6pg]

Hi from Oz I’m wondering if we are or aren’t considering kernmantle constructed ropes. Back in the 80s I was in a cave rescue group and if a rope wasn’t traditional laid construction then a bowline was forbidden. I can already hear the screams of heresy. The rationale we were given was in the 70s Australia’s first in cave death (as opposed to motor vehicle collision getting there / going home) resulted from a bowline used to belay slipping under the shock load of the victim’s fall, the bowline having been tied in kernmantle rope. Fixed loops at the end were invariably double figure 8, safety anchors tended to be alpine butterflies (but no more than 2 people on a rope which had to have its own individual anchor point) Anyway after lots of (interference) some minor deity made a call & because they thought no one was capable of determining whether a rope was layed or non layed, thou shalt stop using bowlines in belays. Hope you are still diving (I don’t think I’ll be able to find a Dr to clear me these days so have resigned myself to being a non diver) Take care 👍@@user-zx8du3ik2j

[@SingingRiver]

This "expert" is grossly ignorant of knotcraft. The bowline is one of the most commonly used knots by those whose life depends on it, including rock climbers, vertical cavers, and mountain rescue teams. None of his criticisms hold water. It is easy to make this a more stable knot by either backing it up with an overhand on the eye or by rethreading the working end (a Yosemite bowline), which also moves the tail out of the eye. The bowline is one of the easiest knots to untie after heavy loading, and it's easy to inspect to guarantee that the knot is tied correctly.

[@vtstrng]

Robert Riversong My favorite: a bowline can be easily tied one handed which has proven useful many times. PS, love your housing construction commentaries.

[@Dmmartin141]

Robert Riversong: Great points! Have you ever used "The Cowboy Bowline?" It also moves the tail out of the loop and is much faster than retreating the tail back through the loop for a Yosemitie.

[@john52467]

Agree as a Mt rescue man we used it ...strong knot trusted knot .....

[@kevinwiens4804]

Robert Riversong: You missed the very first thing he said, the whole point was that the "perfection knot" is better than the bowline for fishing, because...it lays straight away and doesn't have the "tag end" inside of the loop. I am a fisherman and would never use a "Bowline" for fishing for any reason..because of those things. end of story.. You so-called knot experts need to clean the wax out of your ears. Granted he dared to question your "Holy Grail" the Bowline, just because it is old and has been around for ever doesn't make it the best for every application...

[@kevinwiens4804]

@@john52467 We're not talking about "Mountain rescue" here we're talking about using a "Bowline as a fisherman's "fishing loop".

[@jkg6211]

We Fly fishermen have used this knot for ever. lol But we call it "The Perfection Loop". Gotta admit though - I've never seen it tied in such a slow and clumsy way.

[@kevinwiens4804]

Only when teaching "others" like you How to do it...

[@jedmcdonald4695]

I see the utility of this knot but after tying it once I can tell it would never come out after loading it. That’s why we use the bowline. This is perfect for something else I need. Thank you.

[@goremonoja]

Bowline is the go to knot for novices in tree climbing(double rope technique). I find it one of the most trusty options if you dont have a spliced eye. There is another option where you make 2 small loops instead of 1 and then thread the end through the loops as normal to tie the bowline. Once the Knot is tied you feed the tail end back through the same path as the standing end, this acts as a stopper knot and a bowline in one. If you can decipher that lol. Just a tree climbers perspective, good vid!

[@doctorbea]

I think the form of the angler's knot has, as you've shown, all the correct theoretical form of a better knot, and perhaps it is more stable. Still, I think much of the offered criticisms of the bowline knot is also theoretical. The bowline's practicality and time-proven dependability speaks for itself. I really enjoyed the video, though.

[@OldNorsebrewery]

I always used bowline on every lobster pod I own. Never any problems after years and years

[@amryu3258]

You can tie it with the tail outside too (call it the cowboy style) .. Sheet bend in it is pretty resistant too

[@KM7462]

Arborists for almost 40years , and I’m with you guys , bowline ,running bowline , And sheepshank are all you need ,yes its great to know many knots but the bowline will always be my go to

[@pterodactylptroll]

"Why the bowline is not recommended" Not recommended for what application? Your explanation of the angler is very good and I would change your title/description to focus on that. Making a vague argument for not using the bowline will only bring out the sailors and climbers in a hissy fit.

[@mahtoosacks]

pterodactylptroll i was triggered.

[@john52467]

Well said ...best knot for a lot of outdoors action

[@kevinwiens4804]

That is the "point my friend" exactly...the vague argument for not using the bowline will not only bring out the sailors and climbers in a hissy fit. You might think that by criticizing the "bowline" he touched their daughters "inappropriately"..BTW I'm loving the "outrage" in these comments over a stupid knot!

[@kevinwiens4804]

Not recommended for fishing leaders...

[@dw8773]

It's a Perfection loop. And the short end of the bowline can be either inside or outside the loop depending on how you tie it.

[@snappa222]

That is True

[@jantalek0220]

TellThe Truth! but it still functions the same. and easily untied.

[@jantalek0220]

TellThe Truth! That's right! I kept thinking about that all day . its been a long time since my high angle rescue days. I guess I still have that ego though.>lol.....it gets. me every time. thank you for the reply.

[@pauljs75]

And coming at the loop from the other direction (different than going the other way through the loop) is an Eskimo bowline.

[@MountainPirate]

Tail end of the bowline: if you do it "right" it will end on the outside of the loop. But my main question: how easy is the other knot to open after a 16 ton boat was tied to it for one or two nights? That is where the bowline shows its usefullness. I would guess it is like with all knots, there is the right one for a specific purpose, but not one single for all purposes.

[@stcredzero]

"Tail end of the bowline: if you do it "right" it will end on the outside of the loop." -- I thought that was a different knot!

[@MountainPirate]

@@stcredzero Bowline is bowline, no matter where the tail end ends. It is kind of a matter of taste wher you want to end it. I also prefer it on the outside. Have a look here where I tie it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3yXhYWOirVpsJI If you enter the eye from the right side and go from the left side around the standing part you will end on the outside.

[@stcredzero]

@@MountainPirate You are correct, sir! I thought that was the "cossack knot" or "dutch bowline" but that's not quite right. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnLCp2xni7WHlZo

[@stettan1]

The angler's loop is great on shock cord, which slips badly. Otherwise I would say figure of eight for climbing and bowline for most other applications.

[@captmack007]

bowline in the king of knots 2nd to none

[@ScribblyDoodle]

Depends what you're using it for. I do rope access and we ALWAYS use the figure 8 to tie off. Its stable, doesn't lose its strength even if its not dressed perfectly (same cant be said for the bowline which can slip if you tie it sloppy), super easy to inspect if its done right - even for people with less experience, and the whole thing can be fed back through itself and doubled up for extra strength. Yes, it can be harder to untie, but when your life is on the line its a no brainer. Now, none of this is to say that the bowline isn't an amazing knot that everyone should know, but just that there are situations in which other knots can be more appropriate

[@williamharshman9572]

I like the fact that the Ashley book of knots is mentioned and referenced, regardless of arguments, discussions, or point of view. It's the knot bible in my opinion.

[@harrywilde2178]

Clifford Ashley is the king of knots for sure, but see also Geoffrey Budworth's book of knots, he's got some super knots not mentioned in the ABofK.

[@misterlarryb]

Good, clear audio and visual presentation, excellent how-to tie the angler's knot, but obviously not a crowd pleaser judging by the comments! Glad you left this video up for lessons learned! Better if you explained "not recommended..." for what? When talking knots and application and comparisons, provide pull test results (along with the set up of the test) and include cord specs- material, diameter, construction, strength, elasticity/flexibility, etc. Lots of variables- make sure you include them!

[@abhishekroy5119]

From whatever little I have learnt about knots in the 2 years that I have been into these activities, the bowline is an indispensable tool that mandatorily needs to be in the arsenal of anyone even remotely interested in the outdoors. From tying shelters to rescue operations, it has been commonly preferred over (and sometimes in combination with) other knots. This is the first time I heard of the Angler's knot though, let alone feel the need for it anytime. A faulty knot is not the knot's fault as much as it is of the user. JMO, as my journey has just begun and it is videos like this that challenge my understanding and help me grow. Thank you, good sir.

[@georgejenkins7763]

Been in the movie business for 16 years & never had a bow line knot fail. One of the most used & useful knots in the industry.

[@Sillimant_]

Now I finally understood what mum means when she says I start a sentence in the middle of a conversation

[@HondoTrailside]

The perfection loop knot is a great knot (angler's knot). And it is perfectly lined up with the loop, unless you look at it from the side. I use it a lot though. For loops in leader butts, to tie on flies, and to piece together leaders end for end, jut because it is fun.

[@mr.kymholley4500]

I have learned this about learning on KZbin...never, NEVER say anything negative about anything! You will be attacked. Lol, I think you did a great job. I love both knots. Thanks. Lol

[@clayvermulm1048]

I gotta admit, I fell for the clickbait and watched this video wondering if there were some newly discovered arguments against the bowline (a knot that I've used as a farmer and climber for years and has ALWAYS been reliable). The comments validate my trepidation haha.

[@heyphilphil]

This guy obviously just loves the Anglers loop. I like it too. But your reasons for not liking the Bowline was what in the end....its tail is inside the loop and gets in the way? Gets in the way of what? The Angler jams....and bowlines can be tied in seconds. I've pulled trucks and boats my whole life ....a bowline has never failed. And if you want to know it won't fail.....overhand knot the tail or two half hitch it. Done. I have bowlines tied into ropes I've continusly been using for 10 years....still there guy.... just as strong as the day I tied them. Ya every boater, rancher, trucker, Sailer, and national guardsman has been wrong this whole time. You seem like a guy that knows some knots....but dont use them for their intended applications. Like I said you prob just really like that knot and find ways to come up with reasons why its better. I love the farrimond friction hitch....but i understand it doesn't do the best in every application.

[@dannybaker4641]

I'm glad to know both.

[@bixbybixby6752]

The bowline has been used for many many centuries by sailors, but it's 'not recommended.? hahaha The tail in the loop is not a concern in most cases. You can also tie a left-handed or cowboy bowline with the tail outside the loop. The bowline is easily untied by breaking the collar. The reason why the bowline works so well is it's simplicity...a half-hitch grabbing around a bight which is grabbing around the standing line.

[@simon4043]

Its very easy to tie a bowline with the free end out of the loop. It''s known as a left bowline and is actually stronger than the original bowline The actual structure of the bowline knot is a sheet bend (don't believe me? Tie one and look at it closely) The sheet bend is one of the most stable of knots In 50 years of sailing the bowline has never let me down

[@zackthefreeman]

I've always thought it was the other way around. The structure of the sheet bend is a bowline. I suppose it amounts to the same thing really.

[@maj.d.sasterhikes9884]

An interesting knot. Tried it a few times and can see it's use but I can tie a bowline faster and I have never had one fail. I'd say the Bowline is still one of the most useful knots for me.

[@mikewalton5469]

i love and use the bowline all the time. i have not had a single knot failure in 30 years. but, your knot looks like a great knot, i'll have to try it. thanks for explaining it

[@mahtoosacks]

Whats wrong with a bowline again? It doesnt look right? I can tie a bowline around an object in half the time it took you to tie the overhand knot. Its simple enough to do in the dark and rain and waves. can do it behind my back in a quarter the time it took to get half of the anglers knot done, plus i know its right at the end without looking. And i know i can undo it every time no matter how much weight i put on it. Maybe should have just showed how to tie an anglers instead of saying its better than a bowline. AB Unlimited from offshore tugs.

[@jayphilipwilliams]

"I can tie a bowline around an object in half the time it took you to tie the overhand knot." While teaching someone how to do it?

[@mahtoosacks]

@@jayphilipwilliams depends on how fast a learner you are.

[@jayphilipwilliams]

@@mahtoosacks I'm new to knots. No way I can learn a new knot while watching someone tie it at full speed. In my opinion, a good KZbin tutorial shouldn't consist of demonstrating something done one time at full speed.

[@williamharshman9572]

I can make fast both knots in about 3 seconds but bowline only takes one hand. Anglers loop takes both hands but only takes about 2 seconds.

[@shaneb8759]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the anglers loop isn’t supposed to cross over like that. The two strands in the gut should be parallel to each other. But just the same I guess

[@smeraldoderosa7556]

Thank goodness there are knowledgeble individuals out there to enlighten the rest of us. "It's not recommended" for what application???

[@MrAdrenaline00]

In flyfishing that knot is called the perfection loop.

[@cdpolley]

Merchant mariner here.....1st thing: bowline used 99% of the time for heaving lines and other things on board a vessel. 2nd: It's pronounced Bow-LYN not bow-Line.

[@markm8188]

Well Bud, you have messed with the Church of the Holy Bowline, and they've got their shorts twisted into bowline knots. But thanks - I'm enjoying reading the outrage.

[@rodrocketoz3913]

very funny love ur sense of humour

[@kevinwiens4804]

Ditto...LOL

[@patterguitsit7124]

I like the bowline knot. I've used and trusted it for many different tasks in my personal and professional life.

[@quinntheeskimooutdoors6234]

Nice. Thanks for showing us. Take care.

[@robertstonebreaker8394]

Man you ruffled some feathers with this video some of the commentators are angry they might even have a tattoo of a bowline on them LOL

[@charlesxix]

That's 2.42 minutes I won't get back.

[@UziRyder1]

The bowline has been around for longer than any of us and will be around when we are all gone. The bowline never slips. Is easy to tie. Never comes untied on its own. Just as importantly, it's easy to untie even under load.

[@XCX237]

U guys and all your fancy knots make me nuts 😵‍💫. I've been tying things with no name generic knots for 59 years now and have never had 1 failure. 💪💪💪👍

[@utkansalman4678]

I don't know what you do but surely the first person i encounter who knocks down the bowline. It is considered the THE KNOT of mother of knots. We sailors like the tail inside so it does not hang up all over the place when tacking the jib etc. So what do you do ?

[@richard102879]

The bowline has been battle tested time after time and it always prevails. My grandfather taught me this knot as a young kid and throughout my entire life from the army to the tugboat the bowline knot has never let me down. If it's not broke then don't fix it.

[@MysticKnotwork]

I agree with your sentiment, but testing studies were done amongst members of the International Guild of Knot Tyers and found the safe load of the bowline is significantly less than some other loop knots. That said, I use the bowline as well, but there are a number of experts out there with legitimate criticisms. In my opinion, what you lose in strength, you gain in flexibility and ease of use, so I belong to your camp, just letting you know what's out there in the knotting geekdom :)

[@tonybrown6440]

Utkan Salman

[@kevinwiens4804]

He's a "mechanical engineer"...(seriously???)

[@leemcgann6470]

Here is my question. After you have put a heavy load on it, how easy is it to untie? I have pulled 12” x 12-14 logs using bowline knots & can fairly easily untie them. That is one of the pros of the bowline.

[@Juniorzeeseven1]

Good question 🙋‍♂️

[@oceansdeserts4446]

Thank you. I just made an angler's loop to use as a handle on my TheraBand tube. It came loose and I couldn't figure out how the other one was tied, but this works perfectly.

[@First_Class_Amateur]

Glad it helped!

[@redacted1431]

0:32 A "knot-stable" knot is the only kind of stable knot one needs my mans!

[@nacholibre1962]

The "better" knot depends of the the intended application for the knot. For instance, while the bowline is an acceptable knot for use in mountaineering (especially secure if formed with a Yosemite tie-off) , the angler's loop would not be because it is difficult to untie, especially having been placed under a load. A "better" knot for climbing is the figure of eight on a bite.

[@ianlaframboi1]

The bowline is not recommended for what?? It's not recomended ever for anything?

[@jasongeer9402]

Note both knots cut lifting weight of rope in by 1/2 and if you're going to lift serious weight and you wish to untie the knot the bowline is the way to go if you never wish to not to come out the Anglers Loop is perfect

[@RaggedsEdge]

While I do not agree with your assertions in regards to the bowline, I’ll happily add the anglers loop to my arsenal.

[@HeaanLasai]

The angler's loop is unstable; under the right conditions it can re-align itself into some kind of hangman's crow's nest.

[@kevinwiens4804]

The Bowline is also "unstable" if not kept under tension it can come "undone" Oh my....

[@ForvoQuizlet]

Might want to preface that this is a FISHING video and definitely not Scouting or otherwise applicable.

[@borincod]

It is a Flying bowline knot. While it looks nice, it turns out under ring loads. In a similar way you showed, you can also tie a so called Perfection loop (Angler loop).

[@tombryant52jumpscoach]

Once I did this 4 or 5 times it was really good. Then I figured out which line could be slacked to pull it apart and I will use it on my upcoming first overnight backpacking trip.

[@morehumorehu4861]

Geez! Bro! when ' WE ' make a statement of absolutes ' WE ' better know what in the heck 'WE'RE ' talking about! Context matters!! The standard Bowline is a tried, true and trusted knot. It has other variations as seen and taught on other sites. If the Bowline is an inferior knot none of us would use it. Bro! it's all about context!!

[@xcataclysmx]

you can make a bowline with the “tail” on the outside

[@j.richard2059]

@Harry Bell Not really. The structure and function of the knot is exactly the same.

[@j.richard2059]

@Harry Bell Well, I'm not as antiquated as you are. I only have 35 years of experience on the water, but I am also a professional seaman, having spent some time as a leading seaman, quartermaster, bosun's mate and bosun. I've held a masters ticket for the last 10 years, am a former search and rescue instructor for the Coast Guard, and for a time was affectionately known as 'the knot nazi'. Forgive me, I don't usually feel the need to provide my resume or justify my (usually educated/somewhat informed or experienced) comments, but since you asked... Perhaps if you had brushed up on your seamanship skills and knot knowledge in the last 50 years, you would know that there are many variations of the popular 'bowline' that all have their own particular uses and advantages ... they are all still 'bowlines' in their own right, unless you suggest a 'bowline on a bight' a 'spanish bowline' or a 'water bowline' for example are "not a bowline". Even the revered knot bible Ashley recognizes this (tail on the outside) as a variant of the bowline (ABoK # 1034.5), though they claim it to be inferior. Whether or not it is inferior, I can't say, though I can't see much structural reason why it would be. I myself prefer the tail on the inside (that should at least make you happy), but I won't jump down anyone's throat who ties it this way. Might ask them why. I'm not arguing just stating fact and offering a different perspective. Clearly as you alone are the most qualified person on the internet, and a crusty old salt set in your ways, I will leave you to carry on spreading your knowledge and joy. Cheers.

[@j.richard2059]

@Harry Bell British huh? With the attitude I would have assumed American. BTW, I did not claim to be a 'master mariner' - would not want to give you the wrong impression. I'm only good up to 500 ton (anything larger is just an office job on the water!). Considering safety should always be paramount to any sailor it's too bad you feel that you've had nothing new to learn since sea school on the subject, particularly with changes in rope materials and the fact there are literally thousands of different knots and variations in existence. I'm sure you don't know them all - I know I don't. I personally find I learn something new on the subject all the time. Still like my 'old reliables' of course, but at least I'm open to expanding my knowledge, and a good knot book is always an invaluable reference to learn something new, provide a refresher or use as a teaching aid - my opinion is every good sailor should have one.

[@RobertvandenBurg]

Your right Kaven, It is then called the Dutch bowline. We all learned it in the Netherlands this way. But don't start a discussion which is better, the fact is it has the same strength as the regular bowline with the tail inside.

[@highlandervalasik9274]

@Harry Bell no it is not wrong

[@justinmaddox8353]

I know the Anglers loop, as the Perfection loop. It's easy to tie, and if it's tied incorrectly, the tag-end, will not be "sticking " out 90 degrees from your line.

[@Eyesofthasouth]

The bowline is a badass , fast and easy knot to tie. I’ve worked in oil field and other fields. Not to mention all the project around the house and it has never slipped apart. Solid! Pull a ton with it and simple to untie

[@user-zx8du3ik2j]

diver here, same same! bowline is tried and trusted.

[@Jigaboo123456]

@First class Amateur: Your username is almost appropriate. You're definitely amateur, but, unfortunately not first class. An absolute essential for a knot that mustn't slip is that to be properly tied and safe to use, they must be properly tied, properly dressed and pre- tensioned , your knot omitted the latter two, and is thus prone to capsize. especially if shock loaded repeatedly. A well-tied bowline was the knot used by seamen, riggers and rescue services before tailor-made strops were so available. An extra half-hitch, or two was often added. because it was no effort at all to do, but they weren't necessary.

[@brokenvectors]

missed an opportunity to call the video: "The Bowline is knot recommended"

[@zubei]

Thanks for the video! Great knot for when you want the weight to pull down following the centre of the line, like with my kids' gymnastic rings!

[@Mega6501]

I’ve been using bowline knots for a while never had a issue but I’m open for new ideas just need to know it’s safe in my line of work it only takes once to end my career with something simple as making a faulty knot.

[@watercloset99]

no....no....no. i served in the navy for 4 yrs. many times the bowline was a life saver. you are wrong.

[@bradeymandsager4319]

watercloset99 hey I'm trying to find a knot to tie on a grapple hook so I can climb a tree! is this knot safe anough to trust with my life ?

[@johnsmiht7776]

That depends on the strength of your rope. Most knots reduce the ability of the rope to support weight by about 50% so I've read. The bowline is about that, they say. So, make sure your rope can handle at least twice the load. More would be safer.

[@raphaelbeinhauer9242]

@@johnsmiht7776 That depends on the type of rope. A static rope (which is the best choice for climbing a tree), will have its strength reduced alot by a knot. A properly tied, dressed, and set figure 8 on a bight retains about 80% of the ropes original strength, a bowline less. A dynamic rope (standard rock climbing rope) will not be affected as much by knots as a static rope. That being said, if you use a rated climbing rope (>22kN), most secure knots would be strong enough to hold you, provided you do not subject it to any dynamic forces, like falling from a considerable height in to your rope. Good knots to use are the yosemite bowline, a figure 8 on a bight, a fishermans knot or an anchor bend. Make sure you have enough tail after tying the knot and put in a security knot. All that being said, climbing with a grappling hook as your only anchor is very unsafe, especially if it is not a rated one. Always make sure you select a good crotch in the tree with no dead branches, make sure your hook is in a bombproof position, and ditch the hook as soon as you get there and tie the rope to the tree directly.

[@joestevenson5568]

@@johnsmiht7776 Up to 50%. Most knots reduce the strength by less than that. Splices maintain the full strength of the line.

[@darrensmith5544]

This is rubbish. Your logic is not sound. The angler will jam when significant load is placed upon it, whereas the bowline will not. If you're concerned with how the damn thing lays then use a figure 8.

[@AmmoDude]

Yeah, I remember hearing some famous climber lost their life in a fall when their bowline knot slipped. There are alternatives, this is one of them and a highly effective knot. Thanks!

[@user-zx8du3ik2j]

for climbing? figure 8 knot every time.

[@tractorp2255]

If your worried about the end, tie a half hitch on the loop. How does this knot do after a load is put on it? I’ve never had a bowline fail, refuse to untie or damage the rope that I knew of. Think I’m gonna stick with the bowline. Plus whenever I touch a rope , my hands automatically tie the bowline. They’re trained. Cool knot though