The Brilliance of Modern Gyrocopters

In this video we will look at modern Gyrocopters and how electrification is helping to elevate their performance.
We look at:
1. Modified Rotor blades
2. EDF
3.Powered Rotors
4.Regeneration
5.Lift from Wings

[@jomansur]

As an engineer and aero nerd, it's not often I learn something from YT videos, this was great, thank you

[@ElectricAviation]

I hope you see other videos on this channel too

[@pdibbs11]

Aviation has alway been a delicate balancing act between efficiency, redundancy, speed and safety. I like the redundancy that a hybrid electric gyro could provide as we try to introduce air mobility into the future of traveling.

[@ElectricAviation]

Well said!

[@ianross225]

Let’s hope the eco zealots/puritans don’t kill this off along with any other form of enjoyment!

[@maickelvieira]

Really interesting, i always thought they were just a gimmick, didnt expect them to have this much potential for the future.

[@johndemeritt3460]

Gyrocopters -- or autogyros -- have been part of the homebuilt and utralight market here in the States since before the FAA had regulations regarding what we now call ultralights. The problem, as noted here, is that autogyros have been notoriously slow and short ranged. I'm particularly interested in whether any of the new generation of gyrocopters sport multiple rotors. I recall seeing and hearing Hughes/McDonnell Douglas helicopters with six blades producing significantly less noise than Bell and Sikorsky machines. The Hughes machines were also fast and efficient. Anyone got any ideas?

[@maickelvieira]

@@johndemeritt3460 You got me interested in the multirotor thing, i dont know nothing on the topic so when I searched i got confused, what i see is or two "pushers" rotors side by side or two of the big rotors overhead, so i wanna know what you mean when you say "multirotor" since i am confused now kk.

[@johndemeritt3460]

@@maickelvieira, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression: I meant helicopters with more than two or four rotor blades. The Hughes 500 had five or six blades as I recall . . . Looking at the Wikipedia page for the MD-500 series aircraft (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Helicopters_MD_500), the MD-500 had a five blade main rotor with a diameter of about 27 feet (8.33 m). This allowed the rotor to turn so the blade tips didn't reach supersonic velocity, making for a quiet helicopter.. That said, I can see where a twin side-by-side mast, intermeshing rotor design, like that on the Kaman I-Max or the HH-43 Huskie of the Vietnam era would be effective.

[@ianross225]

These machines are simple and very cheap to run. They have none of the issues that helicopters have with complex rotor tilting mechanisms or drive. My father always said that the military never used them because they were too cheap!

[@peceed]

@johndemeritt3460 I proposed this solution to leading polish gyrocoper company. The answer was that they live in the very small niche between drones and regular helicopters. Every complication in the propulsion system is not viable economically. The main cost benefit is the cheaper rotor head than in helicopter.

[@gormauslander]

The lack of love in the world for the rotodyne is one of the great injustices

[@carloko08]

that is correct, the Rotodyne was the solution a lot of decades ago but big aircraft companies stop the Rotodyne, everybody can see that looking a bit on internet

[@colintuffs568]

Fairly rotodyne Heaton Chapel ?

[@gormauslander]

@@colintuffs568 Your comment is difficult to decipher

[@colintuffs568]

@@gormauslander apology should read Fairey Aviation built the Rotodyne at Heaton Chapel , Stockport Cheshire England . We had a photo of the first one with all its constructors in front , my father included .

[@gormauslander]

@@colintuffs568 Oh, well that's very cool, thanks for sharing!

[@whitneylake2107]

I love this channel because it is demonstrating what is actually happening. Thank you

[@okgo8315]

I think a lot of this is virtual/theoretical, still exciting stuff though.

[@jeffcauhape6880]

It never occurred to me that going electric on a gyrocopter would open the door to such possibilities. Wow. I hope to see this develop further. Now if only you could bring the price down to make them affordable....

[@tapist3482]

Cuz the power weight ratio of electric motors had only came to the point that it can replace many mechanical transmissions since recent years.

[@mikesmith2905]

The Kurds in Northern Iraq adopted gyro-copters for their traffic police as when they land there is no prop-wash stirring up clouds of dust and causing accidents. That was about a decade ago now, I can't remember the make but they seemed to like them at the time. Given their greater efficiency I am surprised it has taken this long for ducted fans to catch on.

[@gormauslander]

Greater efficiency? That depends on a lot of things, but pound-for-pound, a large open rotor is more efficient than a closed small one.

[@mikesmith2905]

@@gormauslander I based that statement on a conversation with a friend who makes radio controlled model aircraft, he's a big fan of the ducted propeller. Ducted fans have been adopted for airships, although at relatively low speeds drag is less of an issue. They have started adding similar shrouds to ships propellers (well they did in the 1980s, I came ashore in the early 1990's) 'to increase efficiency', but of course on ships weight is less important and at 10mph drag is negligable. This chap has a video on prop designs that suggests there are potential advantages to adding a duct but I am not a mechanical or hydraulic engineer. Modern advanced propellers such as those used on the A400 transport aircraft don't seem to be common, perhaps due to manufacturing costs

[@gormauslander]

@@mikesmith2905 In trying to come to a conclusive answer about what scenarios they are actually better, I found no conclusion. Intuitively, it seems to me that no matter your prop size, disallowing the air to spread sideways and forcing it to continue out the back must necessarily waste less energy and convert more movement into propulsion. But people keep not using them, so there's gotta be something i'm missing

[@cliddily]

I've been flying gyros in the UK for some 10 years. The attitude people have towards these machines only makes us gyronauts feel special😅 The magnetic reduction of rotor speed in high speed flight would be a very helpful development imo.. AutoGyro of germany have had an electric gyro available (cavalon) since 2010, but it doesn't have any such rotor control system.

[@ElectricAviation]

They really need to upgrade the eCavalon with better batteries and powered rotor. Yeah there is a negative attitude towards Gyros even though its a very practical flying machine

[@andrewbaillie6291]

Yes! Finally! Making it Hybrid and all props electric will be, from my point of view, the way to go.

[@michaelglenning5107]

Yes, a rotax/electric generator would add range, lower cost, still allow silent take off and landing, add powered landing during engine out event.

[@abvmoose87]

I couldnt agree more

[@shaynegadsden]

​@@michaelglenning5107how would it do any of those things, batteries are to heavy and converting energy multiple times is horrible too

[@madsam0320]

@@shaynegadsden the battery is very small, only for take offs. Level flights are by the engine, there’s no need for energy conversion, except during slowing down and descending, free energy that would be scrubbed off anyway.

[@shaynegadsden]

@@madsam0320 did you not understand the comments, having an electric drive means the motor is making kinetic power to convert to electric to convert back to kinetic that's why there is a lot of loss in conversion. Also a small battery really isn't very small in such a weight critical situation a very small of 6.5kwh like the eCavalon used gave just 30 minutes use from a 40kg battery sure it was pure electric but could only carry 2 average men. So if you wanted to have a generator you would need a bigger craft and bigger motor and then that battery does nothing so a bigger battery too. In the end all you did was make an overpriced fueled gyro that would have been cheaper, more efficent and more useful is you threw out all the EV components and just used the engine like normal To simplify a regular engine thermal > mechanical The hybrid system here thermal > mechanical > electrical > mechanical

[@jimpike7445]

I remember the AVIAN which was developed by ex AVRO employees laid off after the ARROW interceptor was cancelled. Many other AVRO employees went to the NASA space program to work on the MERCURY and GEMINI space capsules. I saw the AVIAN at a nearby airport but never saw it fly.

[@dewolfeFSP]

Regeneration through the rotor is game changing.

[@martingarrish4082]

It's great to see well established aeronautical engineering designs meeting the aircraft electrification challenge. I have a lot more confidence in these than the scaled up drone designs that we have seen so far.

[@rjung_ch]

Very interesting, especially the view of recuperating energy during flight. That is very sensible and with new technology such questions can now be addressed and solved. Thank you 👍💪✌

[@ElectricAviation]

Yes, exactly

[@manofsan]

@@ElectricAviation - People have told me Luminati is run by a bold con-artist who bilks investors with tall promises and never delivers anything

[@badrinair]

I've always loved gyros. Really hope to see them flying about

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

As soon as you mentioned a switchable motor on the main rotor.... I thought yes 💭 Regen in flight 😁 Some exciting prospects there... Well done 👍🏻 Sir

[@z_actual]

that is good news, because we need to see this potential brought forward as Im sure it will provide a safe VTOL personal vehicle, and has variations in scale too such as Fairey Rotodyne. Likewise we have learned that we can avoid the speed cap imposed due to retreating blade stall by the wings shown in your examples. This could see 300 mph vehicles which will have an impact on range. Cheers

[@ElectricAviation]

The 11 seater Linx P9 looks promising. It is 2 crew and 9 passengers

[@z_actual]

@@ElectricAviation Once you can power up or power down a rotor, there is a lot of flexibility in this type of platform. The inter airport commuter is obvious and its where Fairey first went for the same good reasons. But there area lot of competing roles which make every bit as much sense, from the 300 mph rotary wing platform to the safe personal transport for low hours non-professional pilot.

[@deezynar]

Once the craft is off the ground, you can't power the rotors without spinning the fuselage in the opposite direction. If your propulsion motor goes out while in flight, you cannot turn on the rotor motor to bring you down because the fuselage will spin. Just come down with autorotation.

[@maxwellmatches]

Couldn't you add a small electric tail rotor?

[@pisoiorfan]

those with dual pusher propeller/fans should be able to compensate for the main rotor torque. Well depending on which pusher motor does fail, it might need to reverse thrust, that's odd (pushing backwards) but doable with any remaining pusher motor.

[@deezynar]

@@pisoiorfan There are few that have two pusher props, but your point is right. Manufacturers may decide to build their gyrocopters with two pusher props just to get that ability.

[@VideoconferencingUSA]

Been a fan of gyrocopters since the early 80s when I bought the plans for a Benson Gyro, then in the late 80s I was able to fly some gyros, but then got scared of their safety record and put the idea up on the shelf. The idea of electric Gyro fascinates me again.

[@gorethegreat]

I’d love a Gyrocopter

[@MrBuyerman]

Some of these look beautiful.

[@angellestat2730]

I always saw gyros as the most efficient VTOL solution, now with these new developments, they secure that spot. The only way other VTOL options can compete is at higher speed, maneuverability and depending their design; they may land on more closed or urbanized places, but with the drawback of higher energy consumption, cost and noise.

[@jason8ification]

They probably could have specific air taxi stations for VTOL vehicles and perhaps they could use fuel cells instead. Fuel cells might improve energy to weight ratios and range.

[@angellestat2730]

​@@jason8ification for any air vehicle who wants to achieve more than 90 min of nominal power and fast recharge, hydrogen is a must. But for widespread adoption to replace a percentage of cars, noise reduction is still the hardest thing to accomplish.

[@fredford7642]

Thank you for a great and informative video. I rally enjoyed it.

[@ElectricAviation]

So glad!

[@Ostsol]

Much more interesting to me than multi-rotor designs. I have an aversion to aircraft that cannot land safely while unpowered.

[@slartibartfast7921]

Always a joy watching your videos mate.

[@ElectricAviation]

Much appreciated

[@williamzk9083]

The most obvious application is an electric motor to pre-spin the rotor before takeoff. The second is the ease of implementing Fly By Wire and Throttle By Wire to create anti torgue to allow a small amount of rotor power during takeoff and landing.

[@johnweiland9389]

If its sound mechanically, and the pilot understands the physics. Its the safest vehicle in the sky.

[@Liithiumbob]

I love the way these companies put an electric motor in an aircraft and call them "Silent". That is such BS. Anyone that's seen in person an electric motor driven prop or EDF knows this is not at all the case. Quieter than a turbine or piston aircraft, yes, but not even remotely silent.

[@robcuthbert8257]

Very well done, as always. Thank you

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks again!

[@dvfreelancer]

Excellent overview of modern gyrocopters.

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

Interesting proposition but I feel you made a few shortcuts. All gyros have pre-rotators, they are necessary because the rotor needs some initial rotational speed to accelerate with relative wind during ground acceleration. What makes jump gyros different, is they have a collective pitch system, while conventional gyros have simpler fixed collective pitch rotor heads. This allows jump gyros to accelerate the rotor on the ground at full speed without generating lift with low pitch, then disengaging the rotator to avoid torque effects, and then only, effectively jumping by increasing collective pitch abruptively. This is done only on rotor inertia !

[@tapist3482]

I was thinking about the same. The jump looks pretty much like how a helicopter does and there must be some rotor pitch changing in the progress. I feel like in a pitch changing rotor would also serve like flaps in conventional aircrafts.

[@andreafarinelli2794]

L'azienda spagnola ELA ha fornito il suo Eclipse Revolution di tale sistema per un decollo verticale. L'autogiro tradizionale costa 140.000 €, quello con sistema per il decollo verticale porta il costo a 240.000€

[@anthonywestbrook2155]

Crazy idea that probably wouldn’t work, but I want to put out there. Some sort of, for lack of a better word, extension cord that supplies the rotor with the large amount of electricity it needs for vertical takeoff, without having to have that much more battery weight. After it reaches a specified height, the cable disconnects and the copter goes on its merry little way.

[@tapist3482]

EVA vibes!

[@gerhardvanderpoll7378]

The more cord you pay out the more of the cord's weight will be hanging on the craft...

[@CptFugu]

Great video, thanks.

[@flying_bros]

Gyros are amazing. They can even drive on the roads!!!

[@pch1147]

Wonderful news and update of current gyro environment.

[@marcv2648]

Excellent info as usual!

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad it was helpful!

[@shawnhollahan590]

Another excellent and inspiring video essay !!

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks again!

[@lankaat]

Lovely video.

[@user-qf6yt3id3w]

You could power the main rotor for vertical takeoff from ground based batteries.

[@sentfrom4477]

Well done. An interesting account. I didn’t realise the power ratio (take off to cruise) was so low for gyrocopters.

[@My-Opinion-Doesnt-Matter]

1:25 you mean low disc loading?

[@ElectricAviation]

Yikes...you are right. It is supposed to be low disc loading.

[@PeterAcrat]

Thank you 🌟

[@ElectricAviation]

You’re welcome 😊

[@MyFluffyClouds]

Could the battery and / or maybe some super capacitors be boosted from a ground based electricity supply to achieve the initial rotation speed for the 'jump' takeoff? This would relieve the drain on battery for forward flight.

[@ElectricAviation]

Its a good idea. A powered tether can do the job that detaches

[@MyFluffyClouds]

@@ElectricAviation Even if it's a very short power tether that just spins the rotor blades up enough to provide the initial jump. This energy is not then taken from the onboard battery. The system could be installed at regional air taxi hubs.

[@markthomasson5077]

@@ElectricAviationhaha, my comment

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

*I ❤️ GYROPLANES*

[@tomellis4750]

As per MyFluffyClouds post below, I would suggest mains power could be applied to a VTOL, for tens of metres after takeoff from a skyscraper, by having a pole run down the inside of the building. This would have a electrical power connection to the aircraft, and be raised up, by mechanical or electrical means, to match the rate of climb, thus not adding to the take off weight. If sufficiently substanstanial, it could even push the VTOL upwards.

[@ElectricAviation]

Brilliant Idea

[@tomellis4750]

A hole could be drilled into the ground to install the pole.

[@tomellis4750]

Brain storming now - maybe for landing also, pole raised with some means to connect to VTOL, maybe the aircraft's connector hangs below, and is guided to the pole's connector by a cone.

[@gormauslander]

This seems like a lot of engineering for a marginal gain. A simple quick-disconnect cable would do the trick

[@SystemLordNemo]

What if a electric VTOL plane would takeoff with cable power?

[@ElectricAviation]

I have explored those options in a video. They can be connected to a power tether, that detaches after lift

[@gormauslander]

Yep. Rotors are kinetic energy storage, and can be charged before takeoff so that the battery isn't used at all

[@ericwilson5203]

I want to know SOOOO much more about this! Doing some napkin math here... take sport copter 2 gyro but use the engine to run a generator. Replace the turbo fan with a pair of electric ducted fans that run off the generator. Add a small wing and the brilliant motor on the main rotor described in the video. ChatGPT reckons that could be twice the performance?

[@peceed]

Lift dissimetry is killing the concept. 180 kph is the maximum speed. If you have powered rotor head complication is similar to helicopter and there is no benefit in cost. So these rotorcrafts are de facto hybrids between gyrocopters, helicopters and airplanes. They play it's gyro card only for certification purposes.

[@user-qp2ps1bk3b]

great video!

[@DiHandley]

An electric gyrocopter is a no brainer. Very exciting!

[@shaynegadsden]

A no brainer as in a complete waste of time, just look at EV's whats their biggest issues weight, price and range. And guess which 2 are critical for aircraft, drones are a prime example just look how short them flight times are and they are ultra minimalist since there is no comfort or safety involved in carried a person

[@cliddily]

Regarding the electrification of gyroplanes, check out ELA gyroplane's new Eclipse Revo Aero, a VTOL autogyro!

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks for the tip

[@Beartore]

Thank you for your lovely voice-over, much better than AI. Your English is fantastic. Excellent informative video. Please, keep up the good work. Subscribed!

[@ElectricAviation]

Thank you for your encouragement

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

The _Fairey Rotordyne_ has entered the comment section.

[@richardlove4287]

Thanks, really interesting…..subbed!👍

[@StepDub]

Why not power the main rotor from a grounded cable for the purpose of take off? This could be detached or retracted once suitable height is achieved.

[@ElectricAviation]

Yes a powered tether can be used for take-off

[@kenjisakaie6028]

Then you're hauling extra motor(or extra gearing) but it's a very interesting idea that I hadn't heard before this video

[@StewartKidGriffin]

Brilliant

[@markthomasson5077]

With some power to the rotor, you should be able to overcome the Achilles heel of of autogyros, that of a short inverse load to the rotor causing it to stop, and all lift lost / inability to make the rotor spin again

[@mandrakejake]

Either powering or generating with the rotor whilst in flight causes a moment torque, how do you manage that without a tail rotor? Just rudder?

[@ElectricAviation]

If you watch the video, I have shown two videos of Gyro's doing jump take-off (nearly vertical). The torque is managed by the rudder.

[@mandrakejake]

@@ElectricAviation whilst you're on the ground it's possible to power the rotor, but ad soon as it's airborne the torque reaction is too large to be useful

[@merchantmareed]

@@ElectricAviation you have not done your research. Jump gyros disconnect their transmissions before jumping. Half your video is bunk.

[@ianross225]

The ducted fan is an obvious thing that doesn’t seem to be used as much as I’d expect especially on turbo prop aircraft or even drones where the improved efficiency and noise reduction would really matter. The Harrier Jump Jet was the most obvious use of a ducted fan and the simplest VTOL aircraft ever developed by the military.

[@markthomasson5077]

The beauty of electric motors is a very high power to weight. This is especially so if you only run for a short time at maximum, as in a jump take off.

[@rickrimington2760]

Great Video ! thanks

[@davidboydarnott417]

If the wings are all about reducing drag on the blades, aren't you better without the blades, you can make the shape more streamline , just a high lift wing and forward thrust fans?

[@sarcasmo57]

If the wing provides 100% of the lift then is it really still a gyrocopter?

[@ElectricAviation]

Considering the blades are also rotary wings, yes it is still a Gyro

[@VacuousCat]

In some specific wind conditions, can an autogyro get energy from the rotor with regenerative braking and be useful?

[@ElectricAviation]

Yes while on ground when its resting and also when is slowed down for forward flight

[@adoreslaurel]

What about power fail? what are your chances of auto rotate, can it function?

[@grahamkearnon6682]

Good video Sir, have been wondering why no single seat battery gyros around, the torque alone from battery would make a lot of sense for a jump start. Just a simple auto blade angle of attack adjuster needed!

[@janrobertbos]

...NICE!!!😀

[@caspargroenen4363]

Nice !

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks!

[@tomarmstrong1281]

I wonder how many of your followers remember the Fairey Rotodyne? Is there a chance, incorporating the advances in technology, that such a machine could make a comeback for local urban mass transport?

[@ElectricAviation]

I had made a video on that 3 years ago. It would been a great machine

[@Brainstrong2]

You didnot mentioned USA experimental gyrocopter with uranium load in tips of the propeller blades. Which help with high jump take off and safe energy during autorotation. I dont remember the name of the model. The problem was as I remember in strength of blades material.

[@markthomasson5077]

If you slow the rotor, will you not suffer from a lack of lift on the rearward side? I guess you could / should have larger winglets on that side.

[@echomande4395]

Maybe something like the Fairey Rotodyne should be revisited with more modern technology. Change the propulsion to turboprops and drop the rotor tipjets for an electric motor.

[@ElectricAviation]

Electric motor can handle the torque required to moved that blade

[@HiNickCares]

Great.

[@georgeolson3996]

I have tried a small rc model gyrocopter electric powered. it flew fine but need limited control throws -- so it got into trouble with asymetric turn resonse during slow flight..

[@dolgo79111]

Have you ever flown a Gyrocopter? I have often and I can say, that it is absolutely noting for urban traffic !

[@user-rh5jp2sh4s]

If the Rotar is powered by motor while being in FLIGHT, meaning it is not free spinning as usually for Gyrocopters. Wouldn't there be a need for an extra tail rotar? Wouldn't that add complexities ?

[@actontreadway1168]

I feel much safer with one of these than a quad copter style aircraft.

[@Anvilshock]

Eh, I just want a lawnmower-powered eggbeater built from hardware-store supplies to putter around in. Works in 7DTD, doesn't it?

[@zenzen9131]

Bring back the Fairey Rotodyne but in electric form :)

[@jerryearick4943]

Add frequencies to the wings

[@henrik_worst_of_sinners]

yes

[@brackcycle9056]

Urban Air Mobility ... apart from Air Ambulance it sounds like a tech for the greedy ..... that said you could use a long lead to power vertical take off & jetison the lead at a height

[@felixthecat3n2]

Why are these safer than fixed wing?

[@nevisstkitts8264]

Less likely to stall under low ground speed conditions.

[@felixthecat3n2]

@@nevisstkitts8264 Thank you. But lose rotor rpm and it can be very serious too I believe?

[@jamesdeath3477]

Great stuff as always, though I do have to laugh when people use "groundbreaking" to describe an aircraft. That's not usually what I'm looking for in an aircraft.How does that Luminati thing generate lift without it's rotors? It has no wings.

[@ElectricAviation]

It has tiny wings

[@MarcEdig]

is there a gyrocopter drone?

[@gregkelmis2435]

Is anybody tried the colonial blades on one of these yet?

[@michaelmacelli3117]

love all the new technology but the average person will never be able to afford it.

[@andreschapero3615]

What about electric paramotors and flex wings ?

[@jamesengland7461]

This is easily possible, but they're pretty inefficient, and batteries don't provide much range anyway

[@hilwaamanamankiyar-pp5bf]

EDF

[@denissy-qn6xz]

Is it possible to make an electro-turbine?

[@jamesengland7461]

Ducted fan is all you need.

[@gsestream]

or just fixed bi-plane high-lift sail-type delta-wing as ultra-light glider

[@anilsachdeva-vu3vp]

Ab Indore mein jakar dekho 1201 hafte mein nahin aaye

[@pyeitme508]

Woe

[@josedearimateiayjesus2178]

Girocopter !!!

[@Patiboke]

1:29 A gyrocopter doing vertical takeoff? 🤔

[@ElectricAviation]

Yes if you power the rotor during take-off

[@Patiboke]

@@ElectricAviation Yes, but then it's kind of a helicopter. I suppose if it's just for takeoff you can still call it a gyrocopter, but doesn't it need all kinds of controls for the blades? The takeoff could get uncontrollable with just a 'dumb' rotor.

[@ElectricAviation]

@@Patiboke Yes and no. It will go on rotation due to forward thrust once it has climbed, so that is how its different

[@ankursahu269]

please increase your technology please sir please

[@ecomandurban7183]

🤗🤗🤗🤗💯💯💯💯

[@Varue]

gyrocopters *LOW disc loading 1:25 or you mean something else because the graph does not reflect what you said Lol

[@michaeljames5936]

'Urban Air Mobility', will only allow the very rich to avoid the traffic snarls below; one of life's inconveniences they had to share with the rest of us. We will continue to crawl, with the additional problem of the constant noise coming from the sky. This is never going to be mass transit, or a traffic solution.

[@Preciouspink]

Noise

[@EIGYRO]

1:30 in, and unmitigated crap. Gyros are great fun. I flew mine for 10 years. They are utterly useless for 'urban air mobility'. They are very power-hungry and inefficient and all the bullshit in the world will not change that. Your pretty renderings do not, and will not, exist. The pictures are pretty, but pure fantasy.

[@abvmoose87]

I dont know, compared to todays gas prices in any country, besides the U.S. who enjoy petrodollar privilege, and with city tolls, X ammount of energy addon taxes, carbonemission taxes that are on a retarded level like in feminized countries like Sweden where people never object, compared to that is it really that much difference in price? Arent prices for driving commute for non-americans starting to approach a level where you might as well just pay for aircraft travel for your commuting?